Brazil elects new president - Why are the left wing BBC and guardian claiming he is 'far right'...?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

Jair Messias Bolsonaro is a Brazilian politician and former military officer who is the President-elect of Brazil. He has served as a member of the Chamber of Deputies, representing the state of Rio de Janeiro, since 1991. He is a member of the Social Liberal Party.


BBC headline...

Jair Bolsonaro: Far-right candidate wins Brazil poll



Guardian headline...

Far-right candidate Jair Bolsonaro wins presidential vote – as it happened




Can anyone explain what it is that makes him 'far right'...???


Or are the left wing media lying again...?

Just like they do when they try to label other political party's as 'far right', in UK and across Europe...?


lol!


Last edited by Tommy Monk on Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:06 am

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:I was more interested in the name 'social liberal'... tbh...


And not being pro homosexual, ie not lording homosexuality into some super status that it is not worthy of.... is hardly being anti homosexual, ie advocating the persecution of homosexuals and death by throwing them off buildings etc...


A middle ground would be to promote heterosexuality and marriage etc... but to let the homosexuals do their thing among themselves, without persecution, but not promoted as right either...!


A sensible middle ground approach...!



You focus on one thing, homosexuality (your favourite topic...), showing you have no answers to the other points. Incidentally, a man who says he'd rather his son die in a car crash than be gay, is obviously anti-homosexuality.

Liberal doesn't even mean LW in all contexts either. In Australia the Liberal Party is conservative/RW.

So social liberal in a party name is meaningless if the stances are not liberal at all.

This is your problem, tommy, you get too strung up on names of things. Which is why you continue to be unable to say that North Korea is NOT democratic, despite the word democratic being in the country's name Rolling Eyes


We all know North Korea isn't democratic... I've never said it was...


But that has nothing to do with Brazil... whereby this man and party were democratically elected... and there is nothing you have said that defines them as far right... it's just a label that lefty's like to throw around at anyone they don't like...!!!

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Post by Eilzel on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:20 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:I was more interested in the name 'social liberal'... tbh...


And not being pro homosexual, ie not lording homosexuality into some super status that it is not worthy of.... is hardly being anti homosexual, ie advocating the persecution of homosexuals and death by throwing them off buildings etc...


A middle ground would be to promote heterosexuality and marriage etc... but to let the homosexuals do their thing among themselves, without persecution, but not promoted as right either...!


A sensible middle ground approach...!



You focus on one thing, homosexuality (your favourite topic...), showing you have no answers to the other points. Incidentally, a man who says he'd rather his son die in a car crash than be gay, is obviously anti-homosexuality.

Liberal doesn't even mean LW in all contexts either. In Australia the Liberal Party is conservative/RW.

So social liberal in a party name is meaningless if the stances are not liberal at all.

This is your problem, tommy, you get too strung up on names of things. Which is why you continue to be unable to say that North Korea is NOT democratic, despite the word democratic being in the country's name Rolling Eyes


We all know North Korea isn't democratic... I've never said it was...


But that has nothing to do with Brazil... whereby this man and party were democratically elected... and there is nothing you have said that defines them as far right... it's just a label that lefty's like to throw around at anyone they don't like...!!!

Wrong. It is hilarious you claim them not be far-right, whipe ignoring all the factors I mentioned which put them in absolute opposition to Left/liberals, amd without even bothering to state what you believe to define the far right. So, what EXACTLY do YOU think makes a party Far Right?

And if you acknowledge the Democratic Republic of Korea is NOT democratic, despite its name, you can acknowledge a party may not be socially liberal despite being called a Social Liberal party, right?

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Post by 'Wolfie on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:45 am

Arrow

The great majority of the world recognises the new Brazilian el presidente, along with Hitler and Mussolini and their ilk, to be "far right wing" extremists...

Apart from poor widdle muddled-headed Tommy --  and his beloved far-right-wing fascist blog sites..

As for Tommy's idea of "democracy", that seems to be whenever the party or leader of Tommy's choice wins the race --  even when that is with less than 40% of the total eligible voters supporting that choice.    (Yet another reason for making voting compulsory in Western 'democracies'..).

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Post by Andy on Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:51 pm

I am intrigued as to who Tommy actually thinks are "far right".
Perhaps he could give his definition, and supply names and political parties.

But he will either deflect or run and hide.
Because he is a coward and cannot answer.

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Post by Eilzel on Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:57 pm

Angry Andy wrote:I am intrigued as to who Tommy actually thinks are "far  right".
Perhaps he could give his definition, and supply names and political parties.

But he will either deflect or run and hide.
Because he is a coward and cannot answer.

Correct alien

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Post by Andy on Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:13 pm

Spineless little dog turd fascist Naziboy Tommy has run away. How surprising.

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Post by nicko on Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:10 pm

Less of the insults Andy, you can state your opinion without coming down to gutter level. There's a lot of shit thrown at Tommy, but he rarely or never answers in kind !
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Post by Andy on Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:15 pm

He rarely answers, period!!

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Post by Eilzel on Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:16 pm

nicko wrote:Less of the insults Andy,   you can state your opinion without coming down to gutter level.    There's a lot of shit thrown at Tommy, but he rarely or never answers in kind !

I agree, no need for that Andy.

Though he is right on tommy never answering questions.

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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:21 pm




the BNP?

i would consider them to be far right

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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:52 pm

Eilzel wrote:
nicko wrote:Less of the insults Andy,   you can state your opinion without coming down to gutter level.    There's a lot of shit thrown at Tommy, but he rarely or never answers in kind !

I agree, no need for that Andy.

Though he is right on tommy never answering questions.

Given the sort of abusive reaction he inevitably gets to everything that he posts, I'm not really surprised.
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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:00 pm

To answer the question posed in the OP, if I were to go into cynic mode I would be tempted to observe that it does not take very much, these days, for any starboard inclination from the stance of Fidel Castro, no matter how slight, to be described as "far Right" by the BBC and The Guardian.
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Post by Victorismyhero on Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:11 pm

Angry Andy wrote:Spineless little dog turd fascist Naziboy  Tommy has run away. How surprising.

THIS...is why L/Wers get banned

NOT because they consider whatever to be far right etc

one is a personal attack, slimey and totally unnecessary

the other is a valid political stance, which we encourage......

But as ever the minions of the left are rabid and, one would consider potentially violent from that kind of speech.

Eil represents a faction of the left that is different, courteous unless attacked, thoughtful and insightful.......even if I would say incorrect Razz

HA represents the greater majority of the left in my youth they were mere commies.......rabble rousers and trouble makers.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:21 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


We all know North Korea isn't democratic... I've never said it was...


But that has nothing to do with Brazil... whereby this man and party were democratically elected... and there is nothing you have said that defines them as far right... it's just a label that lefty's like to throw around at anyone they don't like...!!!

Wrong. It is hilarious you claim them not be far-right, whipe ignoring all the factors I mentioned which put them in absolute opposition to Left/liberals, amd without even bothering to state what you believe to define the far right. So, what EXACTLY do YOU think makes a party Far Right?

And if you acknowledge the Democratic Republic of Korea is NOT democratic, despite its name, you can acknowledge a party may not be socially liberal despite being called a Social Liberal party, right?

Socially liberal doesn't necessarily mean having to comply with your favoured 'progressive' lefty agenda of pro homo promotion and propaganda, and political correctness etc...


As I said, actively promoting homosexuality and elevating its status to a lorded position that it is undeserving of is an extreme... just like the opposite extreme is actively persecuting homosexuals and throwing them off buildings...


A socially liberal position sounds more like middle ground whereby homosexuality is allowed but not promoted or persecuted, but instead heterosexuality/marriage and family is promoted as the right way of things...


And also socially liberal sounds more to me like allowing more freedom to the majority of law abiding citizens to be treated like adults and to behave like adults instead of being restricted and dictated to by a lefty nanny state that is always trying to treat everyone like children and telling people what they can and can't do within the lefty enforced agenda based views on things...



And one more thing... I haven't run away... I've been busy at work!!!


I've asked didge, Andy and Les to define far right here and on other threads, as well as ask them to justify voting against British democracy by voting in favour of being in the EU dictatorship... (as well as questions on other things)... and they have all consistently run away!!!


Last edited by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:25 pm

gelico wrote:


the BNP?

i would consider them to be far right


I have asked didge to explain the definition that would categorise the BNP as far right before... and he came up with a big list of complete spurious bullshit... he tried to back up only a couple of his points on his list but was shown to be talking bollocks... then he ran away...!!!



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Post by Andy on Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:30 pm

Pretty good definition of the far right.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_far-right_groups_since_1945

Of course, our resident fascist will declare this list and definition as fake.

So yet again, for the second time, I ask Tommy, this time  politely, how HE defines the far right, and who and which groups does he consider far right?


Last edited by Angry Andy on Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:36 pm

Andy... it is not me who is trying to call anyone far right... so it is not for me to explain what the defining criteria is...



All I have done is question the label and it's meaning... because whenever I look into the party's who are labelled as such... I find that these party's are very much left wing in their policies on economy and public services etc...


So... I ask the accusers to explain...?


And they come up with bullshit and then run away...

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Post by Andy on Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:39 pm

But you don't recognise ANYONE OR ANYBODY as far right. The whole universe is left from your perspective.

Which is why so many regard you as the forum dolt.

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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:44 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
gelico wrote:


the BNP?

i would consider them to be far right


I have asked didge to explain the definition that would categorise the BNP as far right before... and he came up with a big list of complete spurious bullshit... he tried to back up only a couple of his points on his list but was shown to be talking bollocks... then he ran away...!!!




No I a gave you the definition recognised by just about every single political scientists

You however refuse to recogize political defintions

Based on your own beliefs and not facts

We go through this continue silly repeated circus of yours where you deny what Far right politics is

You never even after being asked by Eilzel define it yourself

Hence you are like debating a broken pencil

Pointless

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:48 pm

Once we have established what the defining criteria are for a party to be labelled as far right... then we can have a look at which party's really fit into the definition...


So... andy... why don't you give me the defining criteria...?


You must know... because it is you who keeps putting the label on others...


Can you tell me...?

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Post by Andy on Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:14 pm

Tommy Monk Yaxley Lennon Robinson.

We are not far right.

As they stand alongside the Nazi flag.

(swastika is banned)

Check out @JLow161’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/JLow161/status/1057568780526780416?s=09


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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:33 pm

My above post is for didge too... and anyone else who think they know what the defining criteria are...?


Come on...?


Do any of you actually have the balls to give us a definitive answer...?


Or isn't it more the case that you all just like to throw the 'far right' label around, as a sort of political blunt instrument attack weapon, to try to tarnish and undermine the credibility of any other partys that you don't like...!!!???



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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:48 pm

You mean like how I did with the French national front debate Tommy and you ran away?

Now, I am not getting drawn into yet another silly circus with you Tommy

You believe what you want to believe.

That is your choice, whilst others understand what defines the Far right

You have done this debate to death so many times and still now, you fail to grasp why

You cannot even define it yourself, after being asked by Eilzel

You do as you always do and dodged it

So you really have a nerve on that front

Laters

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:51 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


We all know North Korea isn't democratic... I've never said it was...


But that has nothing to do with Brazil... whereby this man and party were democratically elected... and there is nothing you have said that defines them as far right... it's just a label that lefty's like to throw around at anyone they don't like...!!!

Wrong. It is hilarious you claim them not be far-right, whipe ignoring all the factors I mentioned which put them in absolute opposition to Left/liberals, amd without even bothering to state what you believe to define the far right. So, what EXACTLY do YOU think makes a party Far Right?

And if you acknowledge the Democratic Republic of Korea is NOT democratic, despite its name, you can acknowledge a party may not be socially liberal despite being called a Social Liberal party, right?


North Korea... a left wing communist totalitarian dictatorship... but calling itself a 'democratic republic'... is just evidence of how blatant the left wing lies can be...


And in another post I made, I have addressed how 'social liberal' doesn't necessarily have to mean 'progressive lefty agenda' that you would like it to mean... and how by not being such, does not mean it is worthy of definition as 'far right' either...




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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:56 pm

gelico wrote:


the BNP?

i would consider them to be far right


So would I gelico

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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:56 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Angry Andy wrote:I am intrigued as to who Tommy actually thinks are "far  right".
Perhaps he could give his definition, and supply names and political parties.

But he will either deflect or run and hide.
Because he is a coward and cannot answer.

Correct alien


And is still dodging it

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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:03 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:To answer the question posed in the OP, if I were to go into cynic mode I would be tempted to observe that it does not take very much, these days, for any starboard inclination from the stance of Fidel Castro, no matter how slight, to be described as "far Right" by the BBC and The Guardian.


How about the Telegraph?

Jair Bolsonaro, the populist former army captain who led a wave of support for the far-Right in Brazil's election, said he would not moderate his hardline views as he began his final push to lead the country.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/07/brazils-right-wing-candidate-jair-bolsonaro-headed-run-off-presidential/

How about the Daily Mail?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6140603/Brazilian-far-right-politician-Jair-Bolsonaro-stabbed-stomach-campaign-trail.html

The far-right politician, who has outraged many in the country with his racist and homophobic comments, had surgery for injuries to his intestines and is expected to recover after the attack, but who is Jair Bolsonaro?


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6142749/Who-Jair-Bolsonaro-Brazilian-presidential-candidate-revealed-stabbed-Juiz-Fora.html

Seems those on the left and right agree on this in the media

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Post by Andy on Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:04 pm

The question that begs to be asked is WHY cant Tommy define what the far right are, and and name groups, parties or individuals?

Is it because he is so far right, everyone else is left of him.

I think he has left his senses behind.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:29 pm

Didge wrote:You mean like how I did with the French national front debate Tommy and you ran away?

Now, I am not getting drawn into yet another silly circus with you Tommy

You believe what you want to believe.

That is your choice, whilst others understand what defines the Far right

You have done this debate to death so many times and still now, you fail to grasp why

You cannot even define it yourself, after being asked by Eilzel

You do as you always do and dodged it

So you really have a nerve on that front

Laters


Didge you complete twisty cretin...!!!


It was that very thread that I was referring to earlier... where you completely failed to provide any tangible defining criteria for what would categorise a party as 'far right'... and where I showed that both the French 'Front Nationale' and the UK based BNP are actually very left wing socialist in their policies...!!!


And on that thread... you were unable to tell me what exactly it was about them that warranted the label of 'far right'...!!!


In fact... you even went so far as to admit that it wasn't 'nationalism' that was the defining factor... as you admitted that the equally left wing socialist nationalist SNP did not qualify as worthy of the 'far right' label... and you said the socialist nationalist Welsh Plaid Cymry didn't warrant the label either...


But then YOU RAN AWAY... after admitting many things that WERE NOT defining factors for being classed as 'far right'... but without saying what WERE the defining factors for warranting the 'far right' label...!!!



There's no point trying to lie about things didge... as it's easy for me to find the link to the thread, and post it up for all to see!!!


lol!



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Post by Andy on Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:34 pm

Brilliant.
.According to Tommy Naziboy Monk, the BNP and Front Nationals are left wing.

What a tool.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:05 pm

gelico wrote:


the BNP?

i would consider them to be far right




Why would you consider the BNP to be 'far right'...?


Think about it for a moment...


Now... without saying that 'they must be because the main stream media always says that they are'...


Tell me... in your own words... what exactly is it about their party/policies that you think clearly defines them as being categorised as 'far right'...???




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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:08 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
gelico wrote:


the BNP?

i would consider them to be far right




Why would you consider the BNP to be 'far right'...?


Think about it for a moment...


Now... without saying that 'they must be because the main stream media always says that they are'...


Tell me... in your own words... what exactly is it about their party/policies that you think clearly defines them as being categorised as 'far right'...???


so in my mind i connect far rightism with racism and white superiority mainly and that deffo describes the bnp

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:29 pm

Angry Andy wrote:Brilliant.
.According to Tommy Naziboy Monk, the BNP and Front Nationals are left wing.

What a tool.


Well... after hearing the constant accusations of 'far right' thrown at them by the corporate and controlled main stream media... I actually spent some time to look into their party policies... only to find that they were both espousing left wing socialist policies and keen interest in looking after the national people...!



Maybe andy can explain what he thinks is 'far right' about any of that...???


I keep asking... but he keeps failing to define what he thinks the criteria are for being classed as 'far right'...!!!




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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:57 pm

gelico wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


Why would you consider the BNP to be 'far right'...?


Think about it for a moment...


Now... without saying that 'they must be because the main stream media always says that they are'...


Tell me... in your own words... what exactly is it about their party/policies that you think clearly defines them as being categorised as 'far right'...???


so in my mind i connect far rightism with racism and white superiority mainly and that deffo describes the bnp



So... Hitler/nazis ww2 against the rest of white europeans and white russians... and where they allied themselves with 'non white' Japanese and brown skinned Muslims... is 'far right' 'racism & white supremacy' to you...?


And that defines hitler/nazis as 'far right'...?


Come on Geli... You need to do better than that...!!!



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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:24 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
gelico wrote:

so in my mind i connect far rightism with racism and white superiority mainly and that deffo describes the bnp



So... Hitler/nazis ww2 against the rest of white europeans and white russians... and where they allied themselves with 'non white' Japanese and brown skinned Muslims... is 'far right' 'racism & white supremacy' to you...?


And that defines hitler/nazis as 'far right'...?


Come on Geli... You need to do better than that...!!!


well Hitler would have allied himself with anyone as a means to an end. it's easy to use people and then discard them when no longer needed. he wanted a pure aryan race, he saw them as superior beings and jews as sub human.

but i was talking about the bnp anyway and their dislike of black people. like i said in my mind i connect racism with being far right


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Post by Andy on Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:38 pm

Your talking to the flat earth believing, climate change denying village idiot in whose weird and warped world the far right are a myth that do not exist.
In his cretinous and delusional place , everyone, apart from himself is either left wing or far left wing.
Tommy is centre.
7.53 Billion are left of centre.

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Post by Eilzel on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:56 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Now... didge... Les... and anyone else...


If you think the above accusations are the requirements  to define a political party as 'far right'... and they are just sweeping generalised accusations from leftys tbh...


Can you explain how the BNP or le pens party fit into this often accused label of far right, by this above listed criteria..?



Or do you just admit that there is no real criteria necessary for you to throw the accusation of far right at anyone except for the fact that you don't like them... being that they don't fully follow your own pre approved lefty agenda... and you think this is justification alone, and try to throw abusive labels to try to undermine the credibility of others legitimate political views...???



lol!



Far-Right, in all its iterations (in Nazi Germany, Mussolini's Italy and various Latin American regimes) is characterised by extreme social conservatism, anti-leftism, Nationalism and authoritarianism.

My earlier definition of Far-Right for the either blind, ignorant, cowardly or (at best) poorly comprehending tommy.

If you deny this defines Far RW politics then give us YOUR definition OR you admit you cannot.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:58 pm

gelico wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
gelico wrote:

so in my mind i connect far rightism with racism and white superiority mainly and that deffo describes the bnp



So... Hitler/nazis ww2 against the rest of white europeans and white russians... and where they allied themselves with 'non white' Japanese and brown skinned Muslims... is 'far right' 'racism & white supremacy' to you...?


And that defines hitler/nazis as 'far right'...?


Come on Geli... You need to do better than that...!!!


well Hitler would have allied himself with anyone as a means to an end.  it's easy to use people and then discard them when no longer needed.  he wanted a pure aryan race, he saw them as superior beings and jews as sub human.

but i was talking about the bnp anyway and their dislike of black people.  like i said in my mind i connect racism with being far right


Almost everyone does. Those white assholes carrying tiki torches and chanting "Jews will not replace us"? They were at the Unite the Right Rally, not a lefty rally.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:02 am

gelico wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:



So... Hitler/nazis ww2 against the rest of white europeans and white russians... and where they allied themselves with 'non white' Japanese and brown skinned Muslims... is 'far right' 'racism & white supremacy' to you...?


And that defines hitler/nazis as 'far right'...?


Come on Geli... You need to do better than that...!!!


well Hitler would have allied himself with anyone as a means to an end.  it's easy to use people and then discard them when no longer needed.  he wanted a pure aryan race, he saw them as superior beings and jews as sub human.

but i was talking about the bnp anyway and their dislike of black people.  like i said in my mind i connect racism with being far right



Hold on a minute... what do you mean by 'pure aryan race'...?


You do know that the nazis listed many ethnicities as being 'aryan'...?


Didn't you...?


And the UK labour party have been under fire a lot lately for being anti semitic... so by your logic... the labour party are far right too...?





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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:17 am

Eilzel wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Far-Right, in all its iterations (in Nazi Germany, Mussolini's Italy and various Latin American regimes) is characterised by extreme social conservatism, anti-leftism, Nationalism and authoritarianism.

My earlier definition of Far-Right for the either blind, ignorant, cowardly or (at best) poorly comprehending tommy.

If you deny this defines Far RW politics then give us YOUR definition OR you admit you cannot.


But I've already shown that hitler and mussolini were ardent socialists... and as far as south american countries go, they are well known to have been nationalist, socialists/communists, as well as authoritarian...


So where does that leave your 'far right definition'...???


Erm... pretty much describing authoritarian left wing regimes...!!!


lol!


Thanks for helping me prove my point!!!



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Post by Eilzel on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:32 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Far-Right, in all its iterations (in Nazi Germany, Mussolini's Italy and various Latin American regimes) is characterised by extreme social conservatism, anti-leftism, Nationalism and authoritarianism.

My earlier definition of Far-Right for the either blind, ignorant, cowardly or (at best) poorly comprehending tommy.

If you deny this defines Far RW politics then give us YOUR definition OR you admit you cannot.


But I've already shown that hitler and mussolini were ardent socialists... and as far as south american countries go, they are well known to have been nationalist, socialists/communists, as well as authoritarian...


So where does that leave your 'far right definition'...???


Erm... pretty much describing authoritarian left wing regimes...!!!


lol!


Thanks for helping me prove my point!!!



You've shown no such thing. By my GIVEN and widely accepted definition of Far Right politics, both Hitler and Mussolini headed extreme RW regimes (socially conservative, ultra nationalist, anti-leftist and authoritarian).

By not defining your own terms shows your lack of ability to do so and makes debating you further akin to handling cooking oil - slippery and greasy.

You obviously either do not have a definition or don't want to look an idiot by giving a wildly off one. And by just saying everyone else is wrong (inc. the Mail, Telegraph and Gelico!) you think you look smart while actually just being slippery and evasive.

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Post by 'Wolfie on Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:17 am

Brazil elects new president - Why are the left wing BBC and guardian claiming he is 'far right'...? - Page 2 3489511464

Once again, poor delusional li'l Tommy proves what a raving loon he truly is...

The only way that someone likeTommy can possibly consider the very epitomes of far-right-wing authoritarian regimes to be "ardent socialists",  is for him to have positioned himself so far to the right that everybody else out there seems 'left wing' to him  !

Then again, we have all seen Tommy regularly re-writing his own new (anti-)definitions to suit his personal agendas --  not only with "Hitler was a socialist !", but also that "Climate Change is a con' !" and "('Darwinist') Evolution never happened !".

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Post by Guest on Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:52 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Didge wrote:You mean like how I did with the French national front debate Tommy and you ran away?

Now, I am not getting drawn into yet another silly circus with you Tommy

You believe what you want to believe.

That is your choice, whilst others understand what defines the Far right

You have done this debate to death so many times and still now, you fail to grasp why

You cannot even define it yourself, after being asked by Eilzel

You do as you always do and dodged it

So you really have a nerve on that front

Laters


Didge you complete twisty cretin...!!!
And on that thread... you were unable to tell me what exactly it was about them that warranted the label of 'far right'...!!!
In fact... you even went so far as to admit that it wasn't 'nationalism' that was the defining factor... as you admitted that the equally left wing socialist nationalist SNP did not qualify as worthy of the 'far right' label... and you said the socialist nationalist Welsh Plaid Cymry didn't warrant the label either...



And the abuse starts, so please post up where I said nationalism was the defining aspect of the Far right?

Never did, in fact I list the number of policies that are classified as the far right

I even stated that nationalism pushed the SNP to the right, it does not make them Far right, based solely alone on this, but this is why someone of your poor intellect fails to look at a party and is selective to think that nationalism is the same principle in every party. Its not the cse at all. For the likes of the BNP. Nazi's, French National Front, its based racially. In Scotland its not, which is based on a wide spectrum that is includes all ethnic groups. So how is that the same nationalism? Its not, the only apsect of this nationalism, is the same found within Breixt. The ability for a nation to govern itself. You see this is why most people mock you Tommy, because you are a Far right religious zealot, never understanding what you are talking about

Its you again lying, which isd what Far right apologists do, to further their agendas.

Now on the Le Pen debate, I posted up her views and the racist book she has as her bed side bible

I also posted up her views to tax heavier foreign nationals, other than french citizens

That is ineqaulity, but you do not seem to think foreign people are deserving of human rights, like the rest of society

Her party has a history of antisemitism, even though she has tried to distance herself from this, her supporters have not

You then ran away from the debate

I mean your views on Hitler are Embarressing

His main allies in WW2 were Spain, under a Far right Dictatorship. Romanian, under a Far right Dictatorship. Italy under a Far right dictatorship, Hungary, under a Far right Dictatorship, Japan under a Far right Miltary Dictatorship etc

I could go on and list more, but you want to distory history and are simple now a Nazi apologist

The nazis and Japanese was simple a marriage of convenience and Hitler certainly did not view the Japanese as equals at all

http://booksandjournals.brillonline.com/content/books/b9789004292932_011

The Japanese saw themselves as superior to all Asians and whites. Again he used the Arabs, but never saw them as equals. This is what you fail to grasp Tommy. Gelico is right in saying he allied himself as a means to an end. What you do as poorly as usual is never looks behind the marraiges of convenience. Not only that, the vast majority of Nazis did not share the same views as Hitler on racial purity and would never class Arabs or Japanese as Aryan race

So again we have you pollute this forum with your utter ignorance, with your Nazi and Japanese apologist bullshit

You see this is what you do Tommy. You live under delusions like a religious fanatic. You post up lies about people and constantly dodge points you never can answer

Its now your trait and throughout you have dodged Eilzel's simple questions for you

Anyway, you are insiginifant in the greater aspects on life, to what people know is Far right

Not one person even backs your arguments, not one single poster

The only one who ever did, is a self confessed racist himself, smelly and he is not here anymore

You see I am embarressed, as someone who is economically conservative to see people on the right peddal such bullshit about Far right politics, as you do, by denying.


Last edited by Didge on Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:38 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest on Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:05 am

Eilzel wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Far-Right, in all its iterations (in Nazi Germany, Mussolini's Italy and various Latin American regimes) is characterised by extreme social conservatism, anti-leftism, Nationalism and authoritarianism.

My earlier definition of Far-Right for the either blind, ignorant, cowardly or (at best) poorly comprehending tommy.

If you deny this defines Far RW politics then give us YOUR definition OR you admit you cannot.

He keeps dodging your question

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Post by Eilzel on Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:00 am

Didge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Far-Right, in all its iterations (in Nazi Germany, Mussolini's Italy and various Latin American regimes) is characterised by extreme social conservatism, anti-leftism, Nationalism and authoritarianism.

My earlier definition of Far-Right for the either blind, ignorant, cowardly or (at best) poorly comprehending tommy.

If you deny this defines Far RW politics then give us YOUR definition OR you admit you cannot.

He keeps dodging your question

He clearly either doesn't have a definition, or doesn't want to give one for fear of looking like he doesn't know what he's talking about (which obviously couldn't possibly be the case Wink ).

In any case, if he doesn't provide one, he proves only that debating him is like handling cooking oil and therefore not worth the bother.

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Post by Andy on Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:59 am

A racist right winger called Monk
Had neither courage or spunk
HE would spout his weird views
Whenever he'd choose
Which usually made him sound drunk.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:48 am

Tommy Monk wrote:


For Les...


The Nazis were left-wing socialists. Yes, the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany, otherwise known as the Nazi Party, was indeed socialist and it had a lot in common with the modern left. Hitler preached class warfare, agitating the working class to resist “exploitation” by capitalists , particularly Jewish capitalists, of course. Their programs called for the nationalization of education, health care, transportation, and other major industries. They instituted and vigorously enforced a strict gun control regimen. They encouraged pornography, illegitimacy, and abortion, and they denounced Christians as right-wing fanatics. Yet a popular myth persists that the Nazis themselves were right-wing extremists. This insidious lie biases the entire political landscape today.

In statement after statement, Hitler could not be clearer about his socialist commitments. He said, for example, in a 1927 speech, “We are socialists. We are the enemies of today’s capitalist system of exploitation … and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.”



And...


http://www.historyinanhour.com/2012/07/29/benito-mussolini-socialist/



lol!



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Post by Eilzel on Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:59 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


For Les...


The Nazis were left-wing socialists. Yes, the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany, otherwise known as the Nazi Party, was indeed socialist and it had a lot in common with the modern left. Hitler preached class warfare, agitating the working class to resist “exploitation” by capitalists , particularly Jewish capitalists, of course. Their programs called for the nationalization of education, health care, transportation, and other major industries. They instituted and vigorously enforced a strict gun control regimen. They encouraged pornography, illegitimacy, and abortion, and they denounced Christians as right-wing fanatics. Yet a popular myth persists that the Nazis themselves were right-wing extremists. This insidious lie biases the entire political landscape today.

In statement after statement, Hitler could not be clearer about his socialist commitments. He said, for example, in a 1927 speech, “We are socialists. We are the enemies of today’s capitalist system of exploitation … and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.”



And...


http://www.historyinanhour.com/2012/07/29/benito-mussolini-socialist/



lol!



So, no answers as usual. Just more greasy, slippery, evasiveness.

While the answers to why the Nazis were obviously a Far-Right regime should be, well, obvious; I WILL respond to THIS argument IF you respond to ANYTHING in my previous post and give a god damned definition of Far-Right of your own.

Now I need to go wash my hands since they're all greasy again Rolling Eyes

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Post by Guest on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:34 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:



So, no answers as usual. Just more greasy, slippery, evasiveness.

While the answers to why the Nazis were obviously a Far-Right regime should be, well, obvious;

i dunno, he makes a good point with that imo with his speeches and all.

i was thinking more along the lines of seeming to be anti anything that he considered less than perfect. it wasn't just the jews after all, it was disabled, midgets, gypsies or any other group he may have wanted to target.

it is easily possible to have what is considered to be left wing opinions on some issues and right wing on others yes?

so i guess it's equally possible to be both far right and far left, two extremes coming together

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Post by Eilzel on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:40 pm

gelico wrote:
Eilzel wrote:




So, no answers as usual. Just more greasy, slippery, evasiveness.

While the answers to why the Nazis were obviously a Far-Right regime should be, well, obvious;

i dunno, he makes a good point with that imo with his speeches and all.

i was thinking more along the lines of seeming to be anti anything that he considered less than perfect.  it wasn't just the jews after all, it was disabled, midgets, gypsies or any other group he may have wanted to target.

it is easily possible to have what is considered to be left wing opinions on some issues and right wing on others yes?

so i guess it's equally possible to be both far right and far left, two extremes coming together

I agree that even the Nazis had some LW policy, just as Mao and Stalin had some RW ideas.

However, Stalin and Mao were by and large LW, while Hitler was overall RW.

Hitler mentioning socialism in 1927 just shows savvy on his part by appealing to one faction early on before discarding them when no longer needed. His later speeches were savagely anti-leftist and socialist.

Regardless, Mao talked of democracy and the will of the people constantly in his speeches- was Mao a democrat?

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