Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

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Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:40 am



All combat roles, including the special forces, are now open for women to join for the first time. Katrina Hodge and Mikey Kay debate whether or not women should be able to join SAS.




https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-women-just-aren-t-cut-out-for-combat-roles-1.5730157



I also added the above into this where women already serve more so in another armed forces

What do others think?

My one point is this.

The pyshical standards of the SAS and SBS, should never be dropped, for equality

To me, anyone should be able to try to join, but the standards must remain at the level they are.

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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:07 am

Arrow

Noone can join the military, solely to think that they will be in elite groups such as SAS/SBS (or the 'Delta Force' and 'Navy Seal' units in the USA) -- the way it works is that you join the relevant arm of the military in your country, prove yourself over 3 or more years, and then apply (if not invited beforehand..) to transfer across to the respective "special forces" brigades...

Then that person has to reach certain standards -- physically, intellectually and personality wise -- to even enter training for the special forces units..
Even then, over here in Oz, the typical SAS soldier has another three years training and experience before being sent on overseas missions -- meaning over six years experience by the time they are serving on those special missions.

You would expect that any women qualifying for the SAS/SBS would have to be in a minority amongst even elite female soldiers -- simply to keep up with the men in the first place..

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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:58 am

If a woman has guts and courage why not?
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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by Vintage on Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:20 pm

There was a programme on a few years ago can't remember the title of it, it had ex special services staff training contestants as if for selection and people would drop out or be asked to leave over several weeks of training and surviving in different scenarios jungle etc
It was open to men and women usually athletes and outdoor types and the women held out as often as the men, there were fewer women than men to begin with but they kept up for the most part, some of the women got into the last few which would have meant selection on a real course. One woman finished on a par with the winning man but the staff decided regrettably to award the man the winning place, at the end of the series the staff admitted they were surprised how well the women had done and that the services should look at the possibility of women serving in these roles.

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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by heavenlyfather on Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:11 pm

I do not believe females have the required physical or mental toughness for the elite forces.

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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by eddie on Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:14 pm

I’m not sure that women would be as good a man in certain roles within the SAS..?

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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by heavenlyfather on Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:17 pm

eddie wrote:I’m not sure that women would be as good a man in certain roles within the SAS..?

I heartily agree. Smile
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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:24 pm

+1

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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:35 pm

Haven't you heard of the Mercury 13?
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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:59 pm

eddie wrote:I’m not sure that women would be as good a man in certain roles within the SAS..?

A woman is certainly capable of covert reconnaissance, counter-terrorism, and hostage rescue. Anything that might require hand to hand combat might be argued that they'd fall short because of strength issues, but you don't need strength to fell a full grown man if you have certain martial arts/combat training. Tianjiao International Security Academy, a Beijing-based training camp founded in 2008 to train bodyguards capable of serving the growing numbers of China's elite has a ferocious training regime, and most women pass it and go on to be bodyguards.

You turn the maternal instinct on its head and a woman will kill without compunction with just as much savagery as a man. Just takes the right training, and the right personality type.

Lyudmila Pavlichenko; She was so deadly and hated by the enemy that the Nazis literally nicknamed her Lady Death.

Nadezhda Popova, a Soviet aviator who became one of the most celebrated of the so-called “Night Witches,” female military pilots who terrorized the Nazi enemy with their nocturnal air raids during WW2

Leigh Ann Hester is the first female U.S. Army soldier to receive the Silver Star since World War II and the first ever to be cited for valour in close quarters combat. She was caught in an ambush and along with two other soldiers who also were awarded the silver star fought back and killed 27 attackers, wounded 6 more and took 1 prisoner.

Captain Nancy Wake (aka "The White Mouse"), member of SOE and the most decorated female soldier from WW2. She led many Partisan attacks on German forces in occupied France and killed a German SS Sentry with her bare hands to prevent him from raising the alarm during an attack. Involved in attacks on bridges, railway lines, and German convoys. Participated in a raid that destroyed the Gestapo headquarters in Montluçon, during which 38 Germans were killed. Wake discovered that her men were protecting a girl who was a German spy. They did not have the heart to kill her in cold blood, but when Wake insisted that she would perform the execution, they capitulated.

It's said that boot camp teaches men to fight like women. Instead of fighting to individually dominate the field, men have to learn to protect each other, fight as a team and quit worrying about whether or not they dominate, but whether their comrades come through alive. That's how you win wars.

Never underestimate what women are capable of.
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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by heavenlyfather on Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:06 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
eddie wrote:I’m not sure that women would be as good a man in certain roles within the SAS..?

A woman is certainly capable of covert reconnaissance, counter-terrorism,  and hostage rescue.   Anything that might require hand to hand combat might be argued that they'd fall short because of strength issues, but you don't need strength to fell a full grown man if you have certain martial arts/combat training.   Tianjiao International Security Academy, a Beijing-based training camp founded in 2008 to train bodyguards capable of serving the growing numbers of China's elite has a ferocious training regime, and most women pass it and go on to be bodyguards.

You turn the maternal instinct on its head and a woman will kill without compunction with just as much savagery as a man.  Just takes the right training, and the right personality type.

Lyudmila Pavlichenko; She was so deadly and hated by the enemy that the Nazis literally nicknamed her Lady Death.

Nadezhda Popova, a Soviet aviator who became one of the most celebrated of the so-called “Night Witches,” female military pilots who terrorized the Nazi enemy with their nocturnal air raids during WW2

Leigh Ann Hester is the first female U.S. Army soldier to receive the Silver Star since World War II and the first ever to be cited for valour in close quarters combat. She was caught in an ambush and along with two other soldiers who also were awarded the silver star fought back and killed 27 attackers, wounded 6 more and took 1 prisoner.

Captain Nancy Wake (aka "The White Mouse"), member of SOE and the most decorated female soldier from WW2. She led many Partisan attacks on German forces in occupied France and killed a German SS Sentry with her bare hands to prevent him from raising the alarm during an attack.  Involved in attacks on bridges, railway lines, and German convoys. Participated in a raid that destroyed the Gestapo headquarters in Montluçon, during which 38 Germans were killed.  Wake discovered that her men were protecting a girl who was a German spy. They did not have the heart to kill her in cold blood, but when Wake insisted that she would perform the execution, they capitulated.  

It's said that boot camp teaches men to fight like women. Instead of fighting to individually dominate the field, men have to learn to protect each other, fight as a team and quit worrying about whether or not they dominate, but whether their comrades come through alive. That's how you win wars.

Never underestimate what women are capable of.

I think your list are oddities as opposed to a rule...

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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:09 pm

heavenlyfather wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

A woman is certainly capable of covert reconnaissance, counter-terrorism,  and hostage rescue.   Anything that might require hand to hand combat might be argued that they'd fall short because of strength issues, but you don't need strength to fell a full grown man if you have certain martial arts/combat training.   Tianjiao International Security Academy, a Beijing-based training camp founded in 2008 to train bodyguards capable of serving the growing numbers of China's elite has a ferocious training regime, and most women pass it and go on to be bodyguards.

You turn the maternal instinct on its head and a woman will kill without compunction with just as much savagery as a man.  Just takes the right training, and the right personality type.

Lyudmila Pavlichenko; She was so deadly and hated by the enemy that the Nazis literally nicknamed her Lady Death.

Nadezhda Popova, a Soviet aviator who became one of the most celebrated of the so-called “Night Witches,” female military pilots who terrorized the Nazi enemy with their nocturnal air raids during WW2

Leigh Ann Hester is the first female U.S. Army soldier to receive the Silver Star since World War II and the first ever to be cited for valour in close quarters combat. She was caught in an ambush and along with two other soldiers who also were awarded the silver star fought back and killed 27 attackers, wounded 6 more and took 1 prisoner.

Captain Nancy Wake (aka "The White Mouse"), member of SOE and the most decorated female soldier from WW2. She led many Partisan attacks on German forces in occupied France and killed a German SS Sentry with her bare hands to prevent him from raising the alarm during an attack.  Involved in attacks on bridges, railway lines, and German convoys. Participated in a raid that destroyed the Gestapo headquarters in Montluçon, during which 38 Germans were killed.  Wake discovered that her men were protecting a girl who was a German spy. They did not have the heart to kill her in cold blood, but when Wake insisted that she would perform the execution, they capitulated.  

It's said that boot camp teaches men to fight like women. Instead of fighting to individually dominate the field, men have to learn to protect each other, fight as a team and quit worrying about whether or not they dominate, but whether their comrades come through alive. That's how you win wars.

Never underestimate what women are capable of.

I think your list are oddities as opposed to a rule...

I don't think they're odd at all. I think they were incredibly brave and did as good a job as a man. That doesn't make them less feminine. It just makes them stronger and more resolute than most of us.
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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by heavenlyfather on Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:13 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
heavenlyfather wrote:

I think your list are oddities as opposed to a rule...

I don't think they're odd at all.  I think they were incredibly brave and did as good a job as a man.  That doesn't make them less feminine.  It just makes them stronger and more resolute than most of us.

Please forgive my terminology, by odd I meant they are more the exception than the rule, their bravery and devotion i would not doubt.
I still believe the mental and physical toughness required for the elite regiments are beyond females..

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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by Vintage on Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:44 pm

The Special Reconnaissance Regiment already has female operatives who are trained in close combat the same as their male counterparts.

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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by Syl on Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:09 am

I think if a woman can pass the same sort of training a man is expected to pass she should be given the job.

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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:24 am

Suspect

Some women do occasionally train with some of the "special forces" in the military --  usually those who are from the various "intelligence" arms, military police units/NCIS, and the gov't "spook" units (e.g. MI5/MI6; CIA; ASIO..).  Those women who complete those course are matching it with their male counterparts, physically/emotionally/intellectually during that training.

However, as yet, no women are serving in these special forces units in most western countries..
When they need female operatives on their "special" missions, they will most likely be "seconding" them from other units or agencies.

Back in the late 1970s/early '80s, the Israeli military pulled the women back from serving "at the front" during fighting in some areas,  for another reason that has nothing whatsoever to do with physical or emotional capabilities --  the Palestinians had found that if they shot a female soldier first, then 3 or 4 male soldiers would stop to tend to her and carry her back to safety, whereas if a man was wounded then only one soldier would tend to him.  So by shooting and wounding a couple of female soldiers first, they effectively could put the whole platoon out of action, temporarily  !

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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:04 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Suspect



However, as yet, no women are serving in these special forces units in most western countries..
When they need female operatives on their "special"  missions, they will most likely be "seconding" them from other units or agencies.

[/i]

Intelligence 14 and Special Reconnaissance Regiment are designated spcial forces and have had women serving within them for years.

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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by nicko on Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:11 am

I gave Wolfie a green for that, because that's exactly what will happen. I wont go into details, but after around 30 years of Military service I'v seen it happen many times .
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Re: Should Women Be Able to Join the SAS? | Good Morning Britain

Post by HoratioTarr on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:05 am

heavenlyfather wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

I don't think they're odd at all.  I think they were incredibly brave and did as good a job as a man.  That doesn't make them less feminine.  It just makes them stronger and more resolute than most of us.

Please forgive my terminology, by odd I meant they are more the exception than the rule, their bravery and devotion i would not doubt.
I still believe the mental and physical toughness required for the elite regiments are beyond females..

Physical perhaps.  Mental and emotional no.    The Mercury 13 underwent rigorous psychological and mental training, and came out tops over the men.   But this was all too much for the male psyche at that time and they were overlooked in case the men got upset that women took the training better than them.

As has been pointed out, the problem with males fighting alongside females comes from the men. It's a man's natural instinct most of the time to protect a woman. I think that's something hard wired into males...though I can't say all males, but probably most. But perhaps with training this could be overcome.
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