Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

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Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:08 pm

Hundreds of protesters gathered in New York City’s Washington Square Park on Sunday night, angrily reacting to reports that the Trump administration is considering a narrower legal definition of gender.

The move would be tantamount to the government’s declaring there’s no such thing as “transgender” and would effectively exclude transgender and nonbinary people from basic civil rights protections currently guaranteed by federal law.

Understandably, LGBTQ advocacy groups like the National Center for Transgender Equality, Lambda Legal and GLAAD responded with force.

A Sunday night protest in New York, hastily organized after The New York Times first reported the proposed change, drew strong turnout. A follow-up demonstration at the White House at 12:30 p.m. Monday has inspired a forceful response as well, with as many as 2,000 people on social media showing interest in attending, united under the hashtag #WeWontBeErased.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-redefine-gender-protests_us_5bcddf9be4b0a8f17eeed5f2

My instincts tell me that you could never understand what it felt like to think you were a different gender than your biological one unless you went through it. Shouldn't there at least be a few trans people involved in the creation of any policy that's going to have a major effect on them?

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by eddie on Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:50 pm

There absolutely should be trans people who can have their say.

What does this bit mean?

“...the Trump administration is considering a narrower legal definition of gender.”

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:00 pm

eddie wrote:There absolutely should be trans people who can have their say.

What does this bit mean?

“...the Trump administration is considering a narrower legal definition of gender.”

Essentially they're saying you'll be legally male or female based on what's on your birth certificate, which would take away (according to some) your legal right to claim you're a woman if you were born a man but had reassignment surgery (or vice versa).

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Original Quill on Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:41 pm

Huffington Post wrote:Hundreds of protesters gathered in New York City’s Washington Square Park on Sunday night, angrily reacting to reports that the Trump administration is considering a narrower legal definition of gender.

Who the fook cares what the Trump administration thinks? The Executive Department is not in the business of writing the laws, anyway.

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Lord Foul on Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:56 pm

*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
Hundreds of protesters gathered in New York City’s Washington Square Park on Sunday night, angrily reacting to reports that the Trump administration is considering a narrower legal definition of gender.

The move would be tantamount to the government’s declaring there’s no such thing as “transgender” and would effectively exclude transgender and nonbinary people from basic civil rights protections currently guaranteed by federal law.

Understandably, LGBTQ advocacy groups like the National Center for Transgender Equality, Lambda Legal and GLAAD responded with force.

A Sunday night protest in New York, hastily organized after The New York Times first reported the proposed change, drew strong turnout. A follow-up demonstration at the White House at 12:30 p.m. Monday has inspired a forceful response as well, with as many as 2,000 people on social media showing interest in attending, united under the hashtag #WeWontBeErased.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-redefine-gender-protests_us_5bcddf9be4b0a8f17eeed5f2

My instincts tell me that you could never understand what it felt like to think you were a different gender than your biological one unless you went through it. Shouldn't there at least be a few trans people involved in the creation of any policy that's going to have a major effect on them?

they should have representation exactly in proportion to their proportion in the population........

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:39 pm

Surprised

"non binary"

???????????


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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:02 am

Lord Foul wrote:
*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
Hundreds of protesters gathered in New York City’s Washington Square Park on Sunday night, angrily reacting to reports that the Trump administration is considering a narrower legal definition of gender.

The move would be tantamount to the government’s declaring there’s no such thing as “transgender” and would effectively exclude transgender and nonbinary people from basic civil rights protections currently guaranteed by federal law.

Understandably, LGBTQ advocacy groups like the National Center for Transgender Equality, Lambda Legal and GLAAD responded with force.

A Sunday night protest in New York, hastily organized after The New York Times first reported the proposed change, drew strong turnout. A follow-up demonstration at the White House at 12:30 p.m. Monday has inspired a forceful response as well, with as many as 2,000 people on social media showing interest in attending, united under the hashtag #WeWontBeErased.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-redefine-gender-protests_us_5bcddf9be4b0a8f17eeed5f2

My instincts tell me that you could never understand what it felt like to think you were a different gender than your biological one unless you went through it. Shouldn't there at least be a few trans people involved in the creation of any policy that's going to have a major effect on them?

they should have representation exactly in proportion to their proportion in the population........

In other words, mob rule?

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:03 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Surprised

"non binary"

???????????


Que caca estas hablando ahora?

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by eddie on Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:05 am

Ps Wolf: I think that roughly translates as “what shit are you talking now?”


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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:16 am

Arrow

So then..

Neither Ben nor eddie know what the term "non binary" means !!!

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:17 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Arrow

So then..

Neither Ben nor eddie know what the term "non binary"  means  !!!

It means more than two, I just don't understand why that cracks you up so much.

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:28 am

*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Arrow

So then..

Neither Ben nor eddie know what the term "non binary"  means  !!!

It means more than two, I just don't understand why that cracks you up so much.

Razz

Okay, Bennie...

The Binary system is a way of counting using "ones" and "zeroes"..

It can also be used to define two alternating states, as in "off and on", "up and down", or "in and out".

When applied to 'gender', it then means that either you have a penis ("1") or you don't ("0") -- two possible states of being..

Using the term "non binary" infers that there are more than two possibilities -- so tell us, Ben, what is the third alternative to either having, or not having that penis ?

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Eilzel on Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:12 am

This is pure bigotry and pandering by the Trump administration.

I do tend to think non-binary is either attention seeking rubbish at worse, or a state of confusion at best. But, if someone believes they were born in the wrong body and wants to switch gender they should be allowed to legally change their documents too.

Not allowing this backwards, needless and vindictive.

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:20 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Arrow

So then..

Neither Ben nor eddie know what the term "non binary"  means  !!!

It means more than two, I just don't understand why that cracks you up so much.

Razz

Okay,  Bennie...

The Binary system is a way of counting using "ones" and "zeroes"..

It can also be used to define two alternating states,  as in "off and on", "up and down", or "in and out".

When applied to 'gender',  it then means that either you have a penis ("1") or you don't ("0") --  two possible states of being..

Using the term "non binary" infers that there are more than two possibilities  --  so tell us, Ben, what is the third alternative to either having, or not having that penis  ?

If you think gender identity is based solely on having a penis or a vagina, you've got a lot to learn.

Yes, I'm lucky enough -- and I do mean LUCKY -- that my identity is being a man who feels male and is attracted to women.

But a lot of people don't fit into the "traditional" categories. And they've always been around.

Some of them are attracted to the same sex, others don't feel like the gender that they were born with.

I know, it can be hard for people like us to understand it. The beauty is, we don't have to understand it or even like it!

We just have to get out of the way of people trying to be who they are and live the lives they want to live, so long as they're not harming anybody.

And they're not!

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:13 am

the problem is the English language doesn't have words for the '3rd genders' 
in Polynesian one can be Tagata, Fafine, Fa'afafine or Tamaitai.

the term 'Non-binary' is self defeating for trans-people, as individuals can't really be 'non-binary' (Unless legit a hermaphrodite) in terms of it being Illogical. it also Implies there is only 2 genders (Binary specifically means only 2 options)  but the individual doesn't want to accept either. 

It's more correct to conclude that 'Gender is a Non-binary attribute.' that there is more than 2 genders and they're in one of the  '3rd gender' classes.

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:26 am

*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Razz

Okay,  Bennie...

The Binary system is a way of counting using "ones" and "zeroes"..

It can also be used to define two alternating states,  as in "off and on", "up and down", or "in and out".

When applied to 'gender',  it then means that either you have a penis ("1") or you don't ("0") --  two possible states of being..

Using the term "non binary" infers that there are more than two possibilities  --  so tell us, Ben, what is the third alternative to either having, or not having that penis  ?

If you think gender identity is based solely on having a penis or a vagina, you've got a lot to learn.

Yes, I'm lucky enough -- and I do mean LUCKY -- that my identity is being a man who feels male and is attracted to women.

But a lot of people don't fit into the "traditional" categories. And they've always been around.

Some of them are attracted to the same sex, others don't feel like the gender that they were born with.

I know, it can be hard for people like us to understand it. The beauty is, we don't have to understand it or even like it!

We just have to get out of the way of people trying to be who they are and live the lives they want to live, so long as they're not harming anybody.

And they're not!

Razz

Don't be so ridiculous.

And don't try and say that I'm thinking the very opposite of what I actually was thinking..

It was that small minority of illiterate fools over there in the LGBQTI community who wrongly applied the term "binary" to their statements -- not me !

Your idiotic attack against me here is simply a case of "shooting the messenger", rather than actually looking at their idiotic use of words in the O/P..

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:47 am

Fake news

Title IX Civil Rights law has nothing to do with gender identity

What it says

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/tix_dis.html
.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction

Maybe someone can point out, how defining birth sex. Their actual bioloigical sex, is going to discriminate against Transgender people within this civil rights law?

It wont. As people with still be able to define themselves as Transgender

Non-Binary is simple a made up concept and as seen illogical

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:24 am

Didge wrote:Fake news

Title IX Civil Rights law has nothing to do with gender identity

What it says

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/tix_dis.html
.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction

Maybe someone can point out, how defining birth sex. Their actual bioloigical sex, is going to discriminate against Transgender people within this civil rights law?

It wont. As people with still be able to define themselves as Transgender

Non-Binary is simple a made up concept and as seen illogical

It's still debatable what sex/gender is in the post binary gender world.
There is a fair argument that the desire to change genders or live as the other gender(of which there is less differences now) is also biological a trait they were born with.

It's probably better to define it by Chromosomes than 'birth genitals'  Wink 
they are also a far more 'absolute' thing, they're either XY or XX, deviation from that is less than 1 in 1,000,000,000(1 billion)

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:34 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:Fake news

Title IX Civil Rights law has nothing to do with gender identity

What it says

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/tix_dis.html
.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction

Maybe someone can point out, how defining birth sex. Their actual bioloigical sex, is going to discriminate against Transgender people within this civil rights law?

It wont. As people with still be able to define themselves as Transgender

Non-Binary is simple a made up concept and as seen illogical

It's still debatable what sex/gender is in the post binary gender world.
There is a fair argument that the desire to change genders or live as the other gender(of which there is less differences now) is also biological a trait they were born with.

It's probably better to define it by Chromosomes than 'birth genitals'  Wink 
they are also a far more 'absolute' thing, they're either XY or XX, deviation from that is less than 1 in 1,000,000,000(1 billion)

Actually its within the brains as well. size, body mass, muscle mass etc. So there is no case for your point of view

Even more so when it takes drugs and surgery to make such a transition to the other gender

The views put forward by crakpot courses like gender studies, have no bases in actual biology or neurology

So its not debateable at all

To say the desire to change genders, would thus mean any view, where someone believes they are something else, including things like animals, age or even Elvis, is basically biological and not a condition. Which as seen its not biological, but a condition. If it was biological, you would see any identical twins, both then having gender dysphoria, if one had so. Yet we know of twins. Where this can only happen in one of the twins. Which proves its not biological. As seen in many cases, the vast majority of children that are confused and classify as gender dysphoria. End up growing out of this, with the majority coming to the conclusion they are gay. Which homosexuality has a biological bases. Its not a condition, like gender dysphoria.

So the notion of a desire to change, would only be classified as a condition

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:21 pm

You opinion as stated in the first line is anti-Science, simple as that.
gender doesn't have anything to do with size, brains or a single thing you mentioned, that's hormones and we can pump either/anyone full of them to achieve that.
the ONLY thing that makes males and females different biologically is their chromosomes. and it is no way Unique to humans it is the Same XX and XY chromosomes in almost all sentient animals.


And your opinion on the desire to change gender is just stupid I can't believe you wrote that you may as well be tommy on gays, and as we no their is no point even pretending to debate that level of stupidity.

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Lord Foul on Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:40 pm

*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:
*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
Hundreds of protesters gathered in New York City’s Washington Square Park on Sunday night, angrily reacting to reports that the Trump administration is considering a narrower legal definition of gender.

The move would be tantamount to the government’s declaring there’s no such thing as “transgender” and would effectively exclude transgender and nonbinary people from basic civil rights protections currently guaranteed by federal law.

Understandably, LGBTQ advocacy groups like the National Center for Transgender Equality, Lambda Legal and GLAAD responded with force.

A Sunday night protest in New York, hastily organized after The New York Times first reported the proposed change, drew strong turnout. A follow-up demonstration at the White House at 12:30 p.m. Monday has inspired a forceful response as well, with as many as 2,000 people on social media showing interest in attending, united under the hashtag #WeWontBeErased.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-redefine-gender-protests_us_5bcddf9be4b0a8f17eeed5f2

My instincts tell me that you could never understand what it felt like to think you were a different gender than your biological one unless you went through it. Shouldn't there at least be a few trans people involved in the creation of any policy that's going to have a major effect on them?

they should have representation exactly in proportion to their proportion in the population........

In other words, mob rule?

expliain how having representation proportional to their presence in society equates to mob rule

if you have say 1000 representative then if 0.1% of the population is trans then they get 1 representative scratch

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:59 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:
*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
Hundreds of protesters gathered in New York City’s Washington Square Park on Sunday night, angrily reacting to reports that the Trump administration is considering a narrower legal definition of gender.

The move would be tantamount to the government’s declaring there’s no such thing as “transgender” and would effectively exclude transgender and nonbinary people from basic civil rights protections currently guaranteed by federal law.

Understandably, LGBTQ advocacy groups like the National Center for Transgender Equality, Lambda Legal and GLAAD responded with force.

A Sunday night protest in New York, hastily organized after The New York Times first reported the proposed change, drew strong turnout. A follow-up demonstration at the White House at 12:30 p.m. Monday has inspired a forceful response as well, with as many as 2,000 people on social media showing interest in attending, united under the hashtag #WeWontBeErased.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-redefine-gender-protests_us_5bcddf9be4b0a8f17eeed5f2

My instincts tell me that you could never understand what it felt like to think you were a different gender than your biological one unless you went through it. Shouldn't there at least be a few trans people involved in the creation of any policy that's going to have a major effect on them?

they should have representation exactly in proportion to their proportion in the population........

In other words, mob rule?

expliain how having representation proportional to their presence in society equates to mob rule

if you have say 1000 representative then if 0.1% of the population is trans then they get 1 representative scratch

This is why you don't vote on rights. That's the biggest criticism of democracy, that it can be two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Except in this case it'd be something like 9 wolves and a sheep.

The sheep has to have delineated rights that aren't subject to the whims of the majority.

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:19 pm

Your natural biological physical gender is genetically defined, witnessed at birth, and should always be listed as such...


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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:01 am

*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

expliain how having representation proportional to their presence in society equates to mob rule

if you have say 1000 representative then if 0.1% of the population is trans then they get 1 representative scratch

This is why you don't vote on rights. That's the biggest criticism of democracy, that it can be two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Except in this case it'd be something like 9 wolves and a sheep.

The sheep has to have delineated rights that aren't subject to the whims of the majority.


In a democracy, there are no 'wolves/sheep'... just everyone treated equally in that we are all given the chance to consider all the viewpoints/policies etc, and all given the chance to make up our own minds on what we think, all as individuals and equal free and fair minded thinkers, and then all given a chance to vote accordingly... 1 person 1 vote... with the resulting most votes being the deciding factor...



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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:16 am

veya_victaous wrote:You opinion as stated in the first line is anti-Science, simple as that.
gender doesn't have anything to do with size, brains or a single thing you mentioned, that's hormones and we can pump either/anyone full of them to achieve that.
the ONLY thing that makes males and females different biologically is their chromosomes. and it is no way Unique to humans it is the Same XX and XY chromosomes in almost all sentient animals.


And your opinion on the desire to change gender is just stupid I can't believe you wrote that you may as well be tommy on gays, and as we no their is no point even pretending to debate that level of stupidity.

Well the above shows how little you do know about the human body and nothing scientific supports your view

We know very well the differences between male and female and even more so that again transgenders have to take drugs and surgery in order to actually change to as near as possible to that gender. So having to do so, shows there is clear differences

You just keep spouting the same crap

At the end of the day gender dysphoria is a condition, a medical contion, that effects the brain

It is a desire to change gender, as this is why people who have gender dysphoria take drugs and even some have surgery in order to change the gender they believe they should be.

So its not just chromosomes and this is why the left keep falling for poor crap that is political ideological

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:17 am


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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:26 am


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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:54 am

LOL 
to prove your wrong 

Does YOUR definition of the difference between gender apply to other mammals/animals? 
No, because it is WRONG!!!!
it is some made Up social construct YOU(and other Anti Science conservatives) are trying to force on others with no basis in reality 

Does My Definition cover all those other life forms 
YES it does because it the CORRECT scientific process for determine gender in ALL species with Y-centered sex determination

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-determination_system
Human sex is determined by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome with a functional SRY gene. Once the SRY gene is activated, cells create testosterone and anti-müllerian hormone which typically ensures the development of a single, male reproductive system.[4] In typical XX embryos, cells secrete estrogen, which drives the body toward the female pathway.



Again there can be no debate when one is simply uneducated in Basics Wink  


Gender is a social construct, 100% Un-debatable Because OTHER cultures had a different Gender Construct.

I mean the Bald Twat is Proven Wrong by Polynesian Culture that has 4 genders, because Guess what it is ENTIRELY a Social Construct.

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:14 am



Never seen something so badly argued in all my life

From your own link and it proves how idiots cherry pick what they want to believe




sex-determination system is a biological system that determines the development of sexual characteristics in an organism. Most organisms that create their offspring using sexual reproduction have two sexes. Occasionally, there are hermaphrodites in place of one or both sexes. There are also some species that are only one sex due to parthenogenesis, the act of a female reproducing without fertilization.

lol!

None of what you posted shows again you have no idea about science of evolution on how the differences in gender are very much biological

This proves again my view, that idiots, that do not even have a basic qualification in biology, should not be allowed to sit and decide what is correct in society, but thanks for playing Veya and you proved Dr Deborah Soh 100% correct how bad politically ideological idiots buy into pure rubbish. To claim what you posted is a construct when it actually serves to create the differences. Shows again you do not know what you are talking about. To then argue that less medically advanced cultures use such definitions, as your argument is also utterly hilarious

Please post that to any biologist and watch them laugh in your face

Laughing

Please get back to the back of the class mate

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:52 am

AND what is the specific biological system that determines that in homo sapiens? Rolling Eyes 

In ALL species with Y-centered sex determination (which includes humans, all mammals and a fuck tonne of others) is officially classified by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome with a functional SRY gene.
it's the chromosomes that carry the DNA that are the blueprint for the individual life form 

Humans are just animals so why should we determine sex in a different way?

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:44 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

expliain how having representation proportional to their presence in society equates to mob rule

if you have say 1000 representative then if 0.1% of the population is trans then they get 1 representative scratch

This is why you don't vote on rights. That's the biggest criticism of democracy, that it can be two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Except in this case it'd be something like 9 wolves and a sheep.

The sheep has to have delineated rights that aren't subject to the whims of the majority.


In a democracy, there are no 'wolves/sheep'... just everyone treated equally in that we are all given the chance to consider all the viewpoints/policies etc, and all given the chance to make up our own minds on what we think, all as individuals and equal free and fair minded thinkers, and then all given a chance to vote accordingly... 1 person 1 vote... with the resulting most votes being the deciding factor...



So if you were to find yourself a white citizen of a majority black country ... would you think it fair if a vote were held on banning white people from your country?

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by nicko on Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:34 pm

That's being considered in South Africa !
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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:37 pm

*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


In a democracy, there are no 'wolves/sheep'... just everyone treated equally in that we are all given the chance to consider all the viewpoints/policies etc, and all given the chance to make up our own minds on what we think, all as individuals and equal free and fair minded thinkers, and then all given a chance to vote accordingly... 1 person 1 vote... with the resulting most votes being the deciding factor...



So if you were to find yourself a white citizen of a majority black country ... would you think it fair if a vote were held on banning white people from your country?

That pretty much happened in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe in the 1980s. In 2014, Mugabe publicly declared that all white Zimbabweans should "go back to England". Land is still being taken back.

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:07 pm

veya_victaous wrote:AND what is the specific biological system that determines that in homo sapiens? Rolling Eyes 

In ALL species with Y-centered sex determination (which includes humans, all mammals and a fuck tonne of others) is officially classified by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome with a functional SRY gene.
it's the chromosomes that carry the DNA that are the blueprint for the individual life form 

Humans are just animals so why should we determine sex in a different way?




I suggest you research, before entering this debate, as again science shows there is biological differences between the sexes

The reality is this and it shows the hypocrisy of the left

Homosexuality is biological, of which I agree, but then on a sixpence, they claim gender is a social construct. Based on no science but as seen made up bullshit

Its comical, as all you do then is provide ammunition to those who believe homosexuality is a choice and not biological. The ideological left want to change the word to fit their ideologies and people are as seen starting to stand up to such bullshit

This is what the left cannot fathom

Not only that there hs been countless studies on boys and girls with toys and guess what?

https://www.psypost.org/2017/12/study-finds-robust-sex-differences-childrens-toy-preferences-across-range-ages-countries-50488


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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:01 pm

I'm just bloody glad that we didn't have to consider such complicated matters when I was a young lad.

I knew that I was a bloke.

I also knew that Brenda from just down the street was a bird.

Why? My God, you should have seen the size of her chest!

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by nicko on Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:47 pm

Cock, Boy. Pussy, girl ! Nether, ?
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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Lord Foul on Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:13 pm

*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:
*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:
*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
Hundreds of protesters gathered in New York City’s Washington Square Park on Sunday night, angrily reacting to reports that the Trump administration is considering a narrower legal definition of gender.

The move would be tantamount to the government’s declaring there’s no such thing as “transgender” and would effectively exclude transgender and nonbinary people from basic civil rights protections currently guaranteed by federal law.

Understandably, LGBTQ advocacy groups like the National Center for Transgender Equality, Lambda Legal and GLAAD responded with force.

A Sunday night protest in New York, hastily organized after The New York Times first reported the proposed change, drew strong turnout. A follow-up demonstration at the White House at 12:30 p.m. Monday has inspired a forceful response as well, with as many as 2,000 people on social media showing interest in attending, united under the hashtag #WeWontBeErased.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-redefine-gender-protests_us_5bcddf9be4b0a8f17eeed5f2

My instincts tell me that you could never understand what it felt like to think you were a different gender than your biological one unless you went through it. Shouldn't there at least be a few trans people involved in the creation of any policy that's going to have a major effect on them?

they should have representation exactly in proportion to their proportion in the population........

In other words, mob rule?

expliain how having representation proportional to their presence in society equates to mob rule

if you have say 1000 representative then if 0.1% of the population is trans then they get 1 representative scratch

This is why you don't vote on rights. That's the biggest criticism of democracy, that it can be two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Except in this case it'd be something like 9 wolves and a sheep.

The sheep has to have delineated rights that aren't subject to the whims of the majority.

so what you are saying is that 0.0001% of the population should have 51% of the representation

that they should have a right to have THEIR representatives voting down other factors, say, oh I dunno, lets say a law on public access, which is a matter that for this example contains my interest,.?


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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:43 am

Didge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:AND what is the specific biological system that determines that in homo sapiens? Rolling Eyes 

In ALL species with Y-centered sex determination (which includes humans, all mammals and a fuck tonne of others) is officially classified by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome with a functional SRY gene.
it's the chromosomes that carry the DNA that are the blueprint for the individual life form 

Humans are just animals so why should we determine sex in a different way?




I suggest you research, before entering this debate, as again science shows there is biological differences between the sexes

The reality is this and it shows the hypocrisy of the left

Homosexuality is biological, of which I agree, but then on a sixpence, they claim gender is a social construct. Based on no science but as seen made up bullshit

Its comical, as all you do then is provide ammunition to those who believe homosexuality is a choice and not biological. The ideological left want to change the word to fit their ideologies and people are as seen starting to stand up to such bullshit

This is what the left cannot fathom

Not only that there hs been countless studies on boys and girls with toys and guess what?

https://www.psypost.org/2017/12/study-finds-robust-sex-differences-childrens-toy-preferences-across-range-ages-countries-50488



You are dumber than Tommy Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

Like i have said Multiple times already I AM NOT DEBATING you because it is impossible to debate Stupidity 

Homosexuality is a Sexual Preference
XY or XX chromosomes determine Biological Sex
Gender is a social construct 

If you don't get that just STFU there is no debate until you accept the BASIC facts.

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Guest on Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:06 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:




I suggest you research, before entering this debate, as again science shows there is biological differences between the sexes

The reality is this and it shows the hypocrisy of the left

Homosexuality is biological, of which I agree, but then on a sixpence, they claim gender is a social construct. Based on no science but as seen made up bullshit

Its comical, as all you do then is provide ammunition to those who believe homosexuality is a choice and not biological. The ideological left want to change the word to fit their ideologies and people are as seen starting to stand up to such bullshit

This is what the left cannot fathom

Not only that there hs been countless studies on boys and girls with toys and guess what?

https://www.psypost.org/2017/12/study-finds-robust-sex-differences-childrens-toy-preferences-across-range-ages-countries-50488



You are dumber than Tommy Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

Like i have said Multiple times already I AM NOT DEBATING you because it is impossible to debate Stupidity 

Homosexuality is a Sexual Preference
XY or XX chromosomes determine Biological Sex
Gender is a social construct 

If you don't get that just STFU there is no debate until you accept the BASIC facts.

Contradiction and the only reason you are bowing out. Is because no science backs your claim

Period

Homosexual preference is defined within neurology and is thus scientific and easily explained within biology.

Biological sex, is determined by hormones and chromosomes. Hence why trans people have to use hormone drugs in order to help them become more like the opposite from their biological sex phsyically. The point you continue to miss. As again where are these hormones produced within the human body? This effectivelly shows its also evoluntionary, the differences biologicallly between males and females.

Biological shows a number of differences between men and women

As seen this is even seen within how and what boys and girls play with.

You want to deny the facts to push a political ideology to pander to an extreme group of Trans that do not respresent the whole trans community

So its you not accepting the facts as per usual and throwing your dummy out

Now people are standing up to such idiocy and fighting back against idiots trying to enforce their beliefs onto the world that have no biological bases

Gender is not a social construct within male, female intersex. Just as homosexuality is not a social construct.

Its biological

Non-binary is made up gender variances, are also a social construct

Do you see the difference?

Do you see how and why you are so easily confused on this?

Though contrary to what you may think. There is also a number of trans people that believe transgender is biological and not a social construct. As they believed they were in the wrong body and even though they were socially raised as the biological sex they were born into. They still went onto adulthood, defining the opposite sex. Which clearly dispells the argument on nurture playing a part. As if they grew up being taught how to be boys, how then did they still end up defining themselves as transwomen? You see the trans community is also divided on this and many do not adhere to this political ideology claiming its a social construct. I back those trans that clearly see this as biological and in their cases, they have a condition, not would never deny them being transwomen. They also tend to be the ones that go through the complete sugical change. And not simple say they are the opposite sex. Hence they have credability.

There is also the famous case of David Reimar. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer.

Maybe you can explain how clearly, this proves again, that nurture is not the factor but actually biology that defines our gender.

You are trying to deny male, female and intersex as biological and claim they are social constructs. That is complete bullshit and is done so to pander to political ideologies

Transgender has been created to explain people who suffer from gender dysphoria, a medical condition. Which in no way changes their actual biological sex they were born with. As seen surgery and drugs are required in order to help change them to near as possible to the opposite sex. Again, I believe very much that gender dysphoria is a condition and that some people believe they are in the wrong bodies and should have the same rights as everyone else within the law.

What we do know is many kids who grow up with diagnosed gender dysphoria. End up growing out of this and then revert to their biological sex they were born with. Where it turns out in fact many are simple gay. Thus they are not getting the right help, in order to help them understand they are in fact homosexual.

Which is the biggest concerning aspect to me. That clearly a number of kids growing up who are diagnosed with gender dysphoria, are in fact gay and thus receiving the wrong help from the very start. 60-90% grow out of this and every single study agrees on this. Thus also in many cases, around over 50% also suffer from mental health conditions, which could also very much be confusing the issue. Why I think it needs to be looked at further to help expand help for kids at this age.

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:35 am

what does homosexuality have to do with gender ????
your just going on a side track that has nothing to do with the fact that You can answer the question Even though I wrote the answer and posted the link to it in the previous post

AND what is the specific biological system that determines sex in homo sapiens?  

In ALL species with Y-centered sex determination (which includes humans, all mammals and a fuck tonne of others) is officially classified by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome with a functional SRY gene.

neither biological sex or gender have anything to do with homo or heterosexual preference

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by nicko on Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:58 am

my answer to the question, YES, unless further investigation finds otherwise !
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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Jules on Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:21 pm

My answer is: OBVIOUSLY.

If further investigation says different, or if the person themself says different - fair enough!

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Re: Should gender be defined by the genitalia you were born with?

Post by Guest on Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:24 pm

veya_victaous wrote:what does homosexuality have to do with gender ????
your just going on a side track that has nothing to do with the fact that You can answer the question Even though I wrote the answer and posted the link to it in the previous post

AND what is the specific biological system that determines sex in homo sapiens?  

In ALL species with Y-centered sex determination (which includes humans, all mammals and a fuck tonne of others) is officially classified by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome with a functional SRY gene.

neither biological sex or gender have anything to do with homo or heterosexual preference

Already answered on this debate, where you looked a complete wally from your own link. Where you were selective on and I pointed out the facts, hence you are trying poorly to misdirect

Now I posed countless points to you and yet again you dodged them

Last chance

Try again

Contradiction and the only reason you are bowing out. Is because no science backs your claim

Period

Homosexual preference is defined within neurology and is thus scientific and easily explained within biology.

Biological sex, is determined by hormones and chromosomes. Hence why trans people have to use hormone drugs in order to help them become more like the opposite from their biological sex phsyically. The point you continue to miss. As again where are these hormones produced within the human body? This effectivelly shows its also evoluntionary, the differences biologicallly between males and females.

Biological shows a number of differences between men and women

As seen this is even seen within how and what boys and girls play with.

You want to deny the facts to push a political ideology to pander to an extreme group of Trans that do not respresent the whole trans community

So its you not accepting the facts as per usual and throwing your dummy out

Now people are standing up to such idiocy and fighting back against idiots trying to enforce their beliefs onto the world that have no biological bases

Gender is not a social construct within male, female intersex. Just as homosexuality is not a social construct.

Its biological

Non-binary is made up gender variances, are also a social construct

Do you see the difference?

Do you see how and why you are so easily confused on this?

Though contrary to what you may think. There is also a number of trans people that believe transgender is biological and not a social construct. As they believed they were in the wrong body and even though they were socially raised as the biological sex they were born into. They still went onto adulthood, defining the opposite sex. Which clearly dispells the argument on nurture playing a part. As if they grew up being taught how to be boys, how then did they still end up defining themselves as transwomen? You see the trans community is also divided on this and many do not adhere to this political ideology claiming its a social construct. I back those trans that clearly see this as biological and in their cases, they have a condition, not would never deny them being transwomen. They also tend to be the ones that go through the complete sugical change. And not simple say they are the opposite sex. Hence they have credability.

There is also the famous case of David Reimar. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer.

Maybe you can explain how clearly, this proves again, that nurture is not the factor but actually biology that defines our gender.

You are trying to deny male, female and intersex as biological and claim they are social constructs. That is complete bullshit and is done so to pander to political ideologies

Transgender has been created to explain people who suffer from gender dysphoria, a medical condition. Which in no way changes their actual biological sex they were born with. As seen surgery and drugs are required in order to help change them to near as possible to the opposite sex. Again, I believe very much that gender dysphoria is a condition and that some people believe they are in the wrong bodies and should have the same rights as everyone else within the law.

What we do know is many kids who grow up with diagnosed gender dysphoria. End up growing out of this and then revert to their biological sex they were born with. Where it turns out in fact many are simple gay. Thus they are not getting the right help, in order to help them understand they are in fact homosexual.

Which is the biggest concerning aspect to me. That clearly a number of kids growing up who are diagnosed with gender dysphoria, are in fact gay and thus receiving the wrong help from the very start. 60-90% grow out of this and every single study agrees on this. Thus also in many cases, around over 50% also suffer from mental health conditions, which could also very much be confusing the issue. Why I think it needs to be looked at further to help expand help for kids at this age.

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