White teacher sacked for making black students re-enact how it would feel to be enslaved.

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Post by Syl on Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:02 pm



Should a teacher be sacked for re-enacting historical events in this way?

"Patrica Cummings has officially been fired from New York City public schools.
City Department of Education spokesperson announced the decision on Friday.
Teacher made three black students lie down on the floor to 'illustrate slavery'.
When one student said she felt fine, the teacher allegedly stepped on her back.
Cummings was first reassigned from Bronx Middle School 118 earlier this year.
She was then suspended, after which she sued the City of New York.
The suit seeks  $120MM in damages for what her lawyer called 'reverse racism'.
Cummings has denied that she stepped on the students' backs in the exercise."



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6296831/White-teacher-black-students-play-slaves-Bronx-classroom-officially-fired.html?mrn_rm=als1

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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:08 pm

Errrrr no

How do you explain history, if not through enactments?

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Post by Syl on Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:11 pm

I agree....though maybe she could have been a bit more tactful.

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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:12 pm

Syl wrote:I agree....though maybe she could have been a bit more tactful.


Why, when the point is to show how bad it was?

What lesson is going to be learnt by watering down such a lesson Syl?

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Post by Syl on Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:16 pm

Didge wrote:
Syl wrote:I agree....though maybe she could have been a bit more tactful.


Why, when the point is to show how bad it was?

What lesson is going to be learnt by watering down such a lesson Syl?
The school is 21% black, she could have also picked some of the 79% none blacks to re-enact what it was like to be slaves perhaps.

I actually think re-enacting past events is a good way to learn, but you have to take in and consider how the students feel about this too.

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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:21 pm

Syl wrote:
Didge wrote:


Why, when the point is to show how bad it was?

What lesson is going to be learnt by watering down such a lesson Syl?
The school is 21% black, she could have also picked some of the 79% none blacks to re-enact what it was like to be slaves perhaps.

I actually think re-enacting past events is a good way to learn, but you have to take in and consider how the students feel about this too.


How do you show the wrongs of slavery by picking kids with pale shin?

Its bout being accurate and on the horros that were committed

The only way to make this realistic is how?

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Post by Syl on Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:23 pm

Didge wrote:
Syl wrote:
The school is 21% black, she could have also picked some of the 79% none blacks to re-enact what it was like to be slaves perhaps.

I actually think re-enacting past events is a good way to learn, but you have to take in and consider how the students feel about this too.


How do you show the wrongs of slavery by picking kids with pale shin?

Its bout being accurate and on the horros that were committed

Well the lesson was for the whole class, and it was an enactment, meaning other kids with varying skin colour could have played the parts too.

Off for the night, take care.

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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:24 pm

Syl wrote:
Didge wrote:


How do you show the wrongs of slavery by picking kids with pale shin?

Its bout being accurate and on the horros that were committed

Well the lesson was for the whole class, and it was an enactment, meaning other kids with varying skin colour could have played the parts too.

Off for the night, take care.


How can kids with pale skin, make the play authetic and realistic?

Irony?

Take care syl.

x

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:41 pm

Syl wrote:The school is 21% black, she could have also picked some of the 79% none blacks to re-enact what it was like to be slaves perhaps.

I actually think re-enacting past events is a good way to learn, but you have to take in and consider how the students feel about this too.


Didge wrote:How do you show the wrongs of slavery by picking kids with pale shin?

The study is the practice of slavery, not the selection of victims.  Picking he same victims is mere mimicry, not focus on the actual practice of slavery.

There is great value in selecting the white kids.  It's called 'role-reversal'.  Black kids already know what slavery was like, if only through the everyday discrimination they already receive.  The lessons are much more effective if received by those who have no idea, and never have had any idea what it's like.

Similarly, black kids watching other white kids go through it, would learn empathy for others...something, some allege, that blacks never learn because they are too consumed with feeling the abuse directed at them.  Role reversing has many lessons to teach.

Didge wrote:Its bout being accurate and on the horros that were committed

Accuracy is not only routine repetition, but experience and involvement as well.  There are many ways of learning--education, after all, is a whole profession--and rote 'transfer of facts' through lectures is one of the least effective.  In addition to mere listening, students must relate.  Involving students in a variety of ways gives them a well-rounded education.

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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:57 pm

So quill does not want to teach history but repeat the same racist history

He wants to introduce an aparthioed system that cast people by their skin colour

Only the left could advertize shuch a system, and bring alive racism again today

wow

I just want people to read again Quills racist views here and consider how bad and how far the left have fallen

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Post by Syl on Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:37 pm

I dont see why the kids playing slaves couldnt be a mix of black, white or hispanic, deliberately singling out three black kids seems a bit contrived. Like what's been said, they were acting, and 12 tob13 year olds have great imaginations.

Obviously when we watch films like The colour purple or Roots, the actors would look ridiculous if they were white and the message would be lost, but this was a school excercise...and perhaps the teacher should have been a bit nore mindful of how she was teaching.

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Post by magica on Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:44 pm

Syl wrote:I dont see why the kids playing slaves couldnt be a mix of  black, white or hispanic, deliberately singling out three  black kids seems a  bit contrived.  Like what's been said, they were acting, and 12 tob13 year olds have great imaginations.

Obviously when we watch films like The colour purple or Roots, the actors would look ridiculous if they were white and the message would be lost, but this was a school excercise...and perhaps the teacher should have been a bit nore mindful of how she was teaching.

I get what you're saying about using a white kid not just blacks. Thing is, she was trying to see how the black pupils would feel today if enslaved, so I agree with her choice.

No one should ever be a slave, and she was trying to bring this across. I don't think she was racist, slaves were black, sadly for them.
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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:53 pm

magica wrote:
Syl wrote:I dont see why the kids playing slaves couldnt be a mix of  black, white or hispanic, deliberately singling out three  black kids seems a  bit contrived.  Like what's been said, they were acting, and 12 tob13 year olds have great imaginations.

Obviously when we watch films like The colour purple or Roots, the actors would look ridiculous if they were white and the message would be lost, but this was a school excercise...and perhaps the teacher should have been a bit nore mindful of how she was teaching.

I get what you're saying about using a white kid not just blacks. Thing is, she was trying to see how the black pupils would feel today if enslaved, so I agree with her choice.

No one should ever be a slave, and she was trying to bring this across. I don't think she was racist, slaves were black, sadly for them.


You are correct that slavery is wrong Magica

What is also wrong is the ignorance of some, that only see people based on skin colour to have suffered slavery

For example, millions of white europeans were enslaved by the islamic empires. Let alone how today, there is little Africans living today from ancestry of the Africans enslaved by the Arab empires and there is a reason for this. Most men were castrated and any children born to african slave women, were eliminated. Millions died in transit from Africa. But you wont here the left talk about that. Its why there is hardly any Black populations within the Middle east. Even though the Arab slave trade of Africa saw more millions enslaved, than the European one.

What I dispair at, is idiots like Quill, that only see racism and clearly based on the colour black.

Not only does such an idiot have no idea of history, but they try to only create such history around the colour black

All slavery was wrong and it goes back to the beginnings of civilisation, which included inslaving many white people from a multitude of nations

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Post by Syl on Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:58 pm

magica wrote:
Syl wrote:I dont see why the kids playing slaves couldnt be a mix of  black, white or hispanic, deliberately singling out three  black kids seems a  bit contrived.  Like what's been said, they were acting, and 12 tob13 year olds have great imaginations.

Obviously when we watch films like The colour purple or Roots, the actors would look ridiculous if they were white and the message would be lost, but this was a school excercise...and perhaps the teacher should have been a bit nore mindful of how she was teaching.

I get what you're saying about using a white kid not just blacks. Thing is, she was trying to see how the black pupils would feel today if enslaved, so I agree with her choice.

No one should ever be a slave, and she was trying to bring this across. I don't think she was racist, slaves were black, sadly for them.



If she wanted to re-enact the death camps in WW2 would she single out Jewish kids to act out filing into the gas chamber?
All kids can identify with inhumane treatment, joining the whole class in and not simply singling out the kids who's ancestors were affected would have a more powerful message and reach everyone equally imo.

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Post by magica on Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:59 pm

I agree Didge, I didn't mention the white slaves because this was about slavery of Africans in America.

Yes millions of whites were slaves to the Romans, as were Indians of Peru and Mexico enslaved by white men.

Slavery has been going on since year dot. All countries have had them some time or other. Spoils of war it was called.

The thought of anyone being a slave upsets me.
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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:02 pm

magica wrote:I agree Didge, I didn't mention the white slaves because this was about slavery of Africans in America.

Yes millions of whites were slaves to the Romans, as were Indians of Peru and Mexico enslaved by white men.

Slavery has been going on since year dot. All countries have had them some time or other. Spoils of war it was called.

The thought of anyone being a slave upsets me.


+1

And that is how it should be looked at, that all slavery is wrong, but some only wish to define this by skin colour

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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:07 pm

Syl wrote:
magica wrote:

I get what you're saying about using a white kid not just blacks. Thing is, she was trying to see how the black pupils would feel today if enslaved, so I agree with her choice.

No one should ever be a slave, and she was trying to bring this across. I don't think she was racist, slaves were black, sadly for them.



If she wanted to re-enact the death camps in WW2 would she single out Jewish kids to act out filing into the gas chamber?
All kids can identify with inhumane treatment, joining the whole class in and not simply singling out the kids who's ancestors were affected would have a more powerful message and reach everyone equally imo.


To make it more authetic Syl?

I would say yes, as many could have had relatives that did die in the holocaust and be able to better relate to the actual horror of the Holocaust. So not all kids can identify, where clearly Jewish descendents of victims certainly could to such an event Syl

I see no wrong in casting people that way

I recently bought a new game, callas Assassin's Creed Odyssey. The game is set in the Peloponnesian War, between Athens and Sparta. Where the character, whether male of female, is a descendent of the Spartan King Leonidas, that died at Thermopylae. The vast majority of the cast that are used to speak the people in this game are Greek or of Greek descent.

That helps make it more authentic and I see no wrong in that.

By the way the game is awesome   Laughing

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Post by Syl on Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:21 pm

Didge wrote:
Syl wrote:



If she wanted to re-enact the death camps in WW2 would she single out Jewish kids to act out filing into the gas chamber?
All kids can identify with inhumane treatment, joining the whole class in and not simply singling out the kids who's ancestors were affected would have a more powerful message and reach everyone equally imo.


To make it more authetic Syl?

I would say yes, as many could have had relatives that did die in the holocaust and be able to better relate to the actual horror of the Holocaust. So not all kids can identify, where clearly Jewish descendents of victims certainly could to such an event Syl

I see no wrong in casting people that way

I recently bought a new game, callas Assassin's Creed Odyssey. The game is set in the Peloponnesian War, between Athens and Sparta. Where the character, whether male of female, is a descendent of the Spartan King Leonidas, that died at Thermopylae. The vast majority of the cast that are used to speak the people in this game are Greek or of Greek descent.

That helps make it more authentic and I see no wrong in that.

By the way the game is awesome   Laughing

Well games, like films, would cast people and adopt accents to make the game/film more authentic, I agree.

The class is different though, they are all there to learn and experience, there is no need to solely cast kids who's  ancestors suffered in this way.
From the piece I read the students didnt feel happy about it, and that, to me says it all.

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Post by Syl on Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:26 pm

Didge wrote:
magica wrote:I agree Didge, I didn't mention the white slaves because this was about slavery of Africans in America.

Yes millions of whites were slaves to the Romans, as were Indians of Peru and Mexico enslaved by white men.

Slavery has been going on since year dot. All countries have had them some time or other. Spoils of war it was called.

The thought of anyone being a slave upsets me.


+1

And that is how it should be looked at, that all slavery is wrong, but some only wish to define this by skin colour

But isn't this exactly what this teacher did?

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Post by Syl on Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:32 pm

This adds another dimension to the story too. Rolling Eyes

"Cummings filed a lawsuit against the city of New York in September, claiming she is the victim of 'reverse racism,' seeking $120 million in damages. Her lawyer claimed her lawsuit could be worth $1 billion."

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Post by magica on Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:36 pm

Syl wrote:This adds another dimension to  the story too. Rolling Eyes

"Cummings filed a lawsuit against the city of New York in September, claiming she is the victim of 'reverse racism,' seeking $120 million in damages. Her lawyer claimed her lawsuit could be worth $1 billion."

All about money. 1billion dollars, no way. I don't get the reverse racism either tbh. How did she come.up with that. No
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Post by Original Quill on Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:46 pm

Didge wrote:For example, millions of white europeans were enslaved by the islamic empires.

magica wrote:Yes millions of whites were slaves to the Romans, as were Indians of Peru and Mexico enslaved by white men.

magica wrote:Slavery has been going on since year dot. All countries have had them some time or other. Spoils of war it was called.

Didge wrote:And that is how it should be looked at, that all slavery is wrong, but some only wish to define this by skin colour

Classic examples of whataboutism, or the tu quoque fallacy. You pose alternative examples to change the subject, and get lost in the ‘Lots of people do it…’ argument. Or the hypocrisy challenge, never dealing with the subject at hand.

If you read the article, the subject is about slavery of Africans in the middle (ocean) passage to America, a very specific subject. To talk about Romans or Peruvians is to change the subject. There are unique issues about bringing Africans to the Americas, including not just brutality, but history, economics and legal/political concerns.

You folks that don’t want to deal with the facts of the article, may I suggest that you start another thread.

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Post by Guest on Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:For example, millions of white europeans were enslaved by the islamic empires.

magica wrote:Yes millions of whites were slaves to the Romans, as were Indians of Peru and Mexico enslaved by white men.

magica wrote:Slavery has been going on since year dot. All countries have had them some time or other. Spoils of war it was called.

Didge wrote:And that is how it should be looked at, that all slavery is wrong, but some only wish to define this by skin colour

Classic examples of whataboutism, or the tu quoque fallacy.  You pose alternative examples to change the subject, and get lost in the ‘Lots of people do it…’ argument.  Or the hypocrisy challenge, never dealing with the subject at hand.

If you read the article, the subject is about slavery of Africans in the middle (ocean) passage to America, a very specific subject.  To talk about Romans or Peruvians is to change the subject.  There are unique issues about bringing Africans to the Americas, including not just brutality, but history, economics and legal/political concerns.

You folks that don’t want to deal with the facts of the article, may I suggest that you start another thread.


The subject is slavery, which many different groups have suffered throughout history

You though seem to want to brush this under the carpet all the time

As to starting another thread, get stuffed

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:26 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:







Classic examples of whataboutism, or the tu quoque fallacy.  You pose alternative examples to change the subject, and get lost in the ‘Lots of people do it…’ argument.  Or the hypocrisy challenge, never dealing with the subject at hand.

If you read the article, the subject is about slavery of Africans in the middle (ocean) passage to America, a very specific subject.  To talk about Romans or Peruvians is to change the subject.  There are unique issues about bringing Africans to the Americas, including not just brutality, but history, economics and legal/political concerns.

You folks that don’t want to deal with the facts of the article, may I suggest that you start another thread.


The subject is slavery, which many different groups have suffered throughout history

You though seem to want to brush this under the carpet all the time

As to starting another thread, get stuffed

Diversion.  Since you've been caught out, let's continue with Syl's question.  What about the lawsuit?

She has no standing to bring a class action lawsuit on behalf of whites, or even white students...even if there were injuries.  She is not a student, but a teacher and employee.

Employment lawsuits are usually compensatory damages only, being based on contract, which usually means lost wages, and any other attendant losses.  There have got to be some tort claims for her to claim $120-million.  Only punitive damages go that high, and only tort claims have punitive damages.


Last edited by Original Quill on Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:33 pm

I presume she's seeking damages for herself for losing her job. I doubt she'd get that much even if she wins though.

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:39 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I presume she's seeking damages for herself for losing her job. I doubt she'd get that much even if she wins though.

Absolutely right. Employment lawsuits are based upon loss of contract, and contract damages are compensatory only. Often there are accompanying defamation or 'injury to reputation' allegations with termination claims, but the article doesn't mention them.

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