M&S are selling hijabs as part of it's school uniform range.

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Post by Syl on Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:27 pm

Sold in small, medium or large, fits from age 4 years and over.

MARKS and Spencer has come under fire for “facilitating medievalism” by selling hijabs for girls as young as four.

The retail giant was condemned by anti-extremism campaigners and customers alike for choosing “profits over values” after it emerged M&S was selling child-size hijabs for £6 each as part of its school uniform range.

Maajid Nawaz, the founder of the Quilliam counter extremism organisation, accused M&S of effectively telling young girls it was “immodest” to show their hair.

He wrote on Twitter: “M&S facilitates medievalism by selling children’s hijabs in the schoolwear category.

“It's their right to choose profit over values. But it's our right to shame them for doing so."




https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1030681/Marks-and-Spencer-hijabs-school-uniform-range-quilliam-organisation-womens-rights

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Post by Syl on Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:11 pm

Is it a sign of the times then that children as young as 4 years old are expected to wear a hijab as part of the school uniform....and no one bats an eye?

Or has M&S simply bent over backwards to cater for a ridiculous minority.

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Post by Guest on Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:59 pm

Syl wrote:Is it a sign of the times then that children as young as 4 years old are expected to wear a hijab as part of the school uniform....and no one bats an eye?

Or has M&S simply bent over backwards to cater for a ridiculous minority.


a bit of both i would say, syl

no idea why you would get a red fro stating the obvious

Rolling Eyes


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Post by Syl on Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:03 pm

gelico wrote:
Syl wrote:Is it a sign of the times then that children as young as 4 years old are expected to wear a hijab as part of the school uniform....and no one bats an eye?

Or has M&S simply bent over backwards to cater for a ridiculous minority.


a bit of both i would say, syl

no idea why you would get a red fro stating the obvious

Rolling Eyes


Probably wetwipe,  he never needs a reason to dish out reds. Razz

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:06 pm

Um, this is ridiculous. The only, only, only reason M&S exists is to make profits, and the only reason it sells any damn thing is to make profits.

Profits, not prophets Rolling Eyes

Any time any business anywhere in the world does anything at all is because it thinks doing so will mean more money.

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Post by JulesV on Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:07 pm

Aye.
It's commerce pure & simple.

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:56 pm

*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:Um, this is ridiculous. The only, only, only reason M&S exists is to make profits, and the only reason it sells any damn thing is to make profits.

Profits, not prophets Rolling Eyes

Any time any business anywhere in the world does anything at all is because it thinks doing so will mean more money.

I was just going to ask: Is it profitable? M & S have no agenda except to make money. If it is not profitable and they are doing it, it might raise suspicions. Or, from the other side, if they are somehow in the business of promoting Saudi culture, how much support is given to them by the Saudi government?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:36 pm

I can't see where it says they're for four-year old children. In fact, the sizing would suggest they're for older girls.

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Post by Syl on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:33 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I can't see where it says they're for four-year old children. In fact, the sizing would suggest they're for older girls.

It says it twice, once directly under the headline of the Express link and then again in the article.
It suggests a medium would fit a 4 year old....maybe the small is for her doll. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Syl on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:35 pm

Original Quill wrote:
*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:Um, this is ridiculous. The only, only, only reason M&S exists is to make profits, and the only reason it sells any damn thing is to make profits.

Profits, not prophets Rolling Eyes

Any time any business anywhere in the world does anything at all is because it thinks doing so will mean more money.

I was just going to ask: Is it profitable?  M & S have no agenda except to make money.  If it is not profitable and they are doing it, it might raise suspicions.  Or, from the other side, if they are somehow in the business of promoting Saudi culture, how much support is given to them by the Saudi government?

Articles made from ivory and fur of endangered species made profit. T shirts for tiny tots with inapropriate slogans sold well to chavy mothers....doesnt mean anyone has to sell them though does it?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:45 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I can't see where it says they're for four-year old children. In fact, the sizing would suggest they're for older girls.

It says it twice, once directly  under the headline of the Express link and then again in the article.
It suggests a medium would fit a 4 year old....maybe the small is for her doll. Rolling Eyes

Someone made a comment in a review that a medium would fit a four-year old, but the measurements don't support that. The measurements are for a larger head. Just because someone thinks they come up small doesn't mean they're made for four-year old girls. Does M&S actually say that they would suit a four-year old?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:46 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I was just going to ask: Is it profitable?  M & S have no agenda except to make money.  If it is not profitable and they are doing it, it might raise suspicions.  Or, from the other side, if they are somehow in the business of promoting Saudi culture, how much support is given to them by the Saudi government?

Articles made from ivory and fur of endangered species made profit. T shirts for tiny tots with inapropriate slogans sold well to chavy mothers....doesnt mean anyone has to sell them though does it?

Fur doesn't make a profit if people boycott a store for selling it, which is quite likely these days. Of course, there might be some ethics involved, but shops largely go by what their customers want.

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Post by Syl on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:54 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

It says it twice, once directly  under the headline of the Express link and then again in the article.
It suggests a medium would fit a 4 year old....maybe the small is for her doll. Rolling Eyes

Someone made a comment in a review that a medium would fit a four-year old, but the measurements don't support that. The measurements are for a larger head. Just because someone thinks they come up small doesn't mean they're made for four-year old girls. Does M&S actually say that they would suit a four-year old?

Its sold by M&S online, The article says
"The sizes are vague, coming in small, medium and large without giving a specific age range or a size guide to explain what age each of the sizes is aimed at but online reviews suggest a “medium” would fit a four-year-old."

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:59 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Someone made a comment in a review that a medium would fit a four-year old, but the measurements don't support that. The measurements are for a larger head. Just because someone thinks they come up small doesn't mean they're made for four-year old girls. Does M&S actually say that they would suit a four-year old?

Its sold by M&S online, The article says
"The sizes are vague, coming in small, medium and large without giving a specific age range or a size guide to explain what age each of the sizes is aimed at but online reviews suggest a “medium” would fit a four-year-old."

Yes, one reviewer suggested that, but that's not the same as the hijab being made for four-year girls is it? Perhaps the reviewer thinks a hijab should be looser. There is a size guide actually.

Look at the measurements.

To fit head circumference small - 55-56cm, medium - 56-57cm & large - 57-58cm

Those are pretty much adult sizes - more for a teenage girl I would say.


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Post by Syl on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:14 pm

From what I can see M&S dont give age guides, they are obviously childrens sizes as they are in the school essential category.
I imagine if any parent is stupid enough to feel their schoolchild should need to cover her head and hair up for school they would have to take a guess or do what many people do when buying clothes items online... take note of the comments previously left.

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:15 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I was just going to ask: Is it profitable?  M & S have no agenda except to make money.  If it is not profitable and they are doing it, it might raise suspicions.  Or, from the other side, if they are somehow in the business of promoting Saudi culture, how much support is given to them by the Saudi government?

Articles made from ivory and fur of endangered species made profit. T shirts for tiny tots with inapropriate slogans sold well to chavy mothers....doesnt mean anyone has to sell them though does it?

Any corporation only has to make a profit for shareholders.

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:16 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

Articles made from ivory and fur of endangered species made profit. T shirts for tiny tots with inapropriate slogans sold well to chavy mothers....doesnt mean anyone has to sell them though does it?

Fur doesn't make a profit if people boycott a store for selling it, which is quite likely these days. Of course, there might be some ethics involved, but shops largely go by what their customers want.

A boycott is an effective way to combat corporate capitalism.

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Post by Syl on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:19 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

Articles made from ivory and fur of endangered species made profit. T shirts for tiny tots with inapropriate slogans sold well to chavy mothers....doesnt mean anyone has to sell them though does it?

Any corporation only has to make a profit for shareholders.

Amazingly, not everything in life is about profit making.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:19 pm

Syl wrote:From what I can see M&S dont give age guides, they are obviously childrens sizes as they are in the school essential category.
I imagine if any parent is stupid enough to feel their schoolchild should need to cover her head and hair up for school they would have to take a guess or do what many people do when buying clothes items online... take note of the comments previously left.


Exactly - they don't give age guides, so to say they're selling hijab's for four-year old girls is not accurate at all. As I said, look at the measurements. "Children" could mean any age up to 18, so the article is really misleading.

Look, one reviewer felt that the sizing was too small - another might think it's fine. There aren't enough comments to go on. You can't go on what one person said.

M&S say that they've had requests for hijabs so they're just providing what customers want.

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:21 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Any corporation only has to make a profit for shareholders.

Amazingly, not everything in life is about profit making.

Razz Socialists have been preaching that for eons. Twisted Evil

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Fur doesn't make a profit if people boycott a store for selling it, which is quite likely these days. Of course, there might be some ethics involved, but shops largely go by what their customers want.

A boycott is an effective way to combat corporate capitalism.

Yes it is. I'm not sure that people would boycott M&S just because they sell hijabs though.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:22 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Any corporation only has to make a profit for shareholders.

Amazingly, not everything in life is about profit making.

Are you suggesting that the sale of hijabs should be prohibited?

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:22 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

A boycott is an effective way to combat corporate capitalism.

Yes it is. I'm not sure that people would boycott M&S just because they sell hijabs though.

I just boycott them because of the cheap goods. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:25 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes it is. I'm not sure that people would boycott M&S just because they sell hijabs though.

I just boycott them because of the cheap goods.  Rolling Eyes

I wouldn't say that M&S is cheap.

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Post by Syl on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:26 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

Amazingly, not everything in life is about profit making.

Are you suggesting that the sale of hijabs should be prohibited?

No, I am suggesting that children dont need one...and they certainly dont need one as part of their school uniform.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:28 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Are you suggesting that the sale of hijabs should be prohibited?

No, I am suggesting that children dont need one...and they certainly dont need one as part of their school uniform.

Some people disagree. M&S will sell them if there's a demand for them, and they'll stop if there isn't.

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Post by Syl on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:28 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes it is. I'm not sure that people would boycott M&S just because they sell hijabs though.

I just boycott them because of the cheap goods.  Rolling Eyes

M&S are middle of the road, they always have been, but they are luxury personified compared to the most popular UK high street stores like Primark and Aldi.

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Post by Syl on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:29 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

No, I am suggesting that children dont need one...and they certainly dont need one as part of their school uniform.

Some people disagree. M&S will sell them if there's a demand for them, and they'll stop if there isn't.

Some people are stupid. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:30 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Some people disagree. M&S will sell them if there's a demand for them, and they'll stop if there isn't.

Some people are stupid. Rolling Eyes

That's not against the law. Laughing

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Post by Syl on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:33 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

Some people are stupid. Rolling Eyes

That's not against the law. Laughing

True, if it was we would need a lot more prisons.

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Post by Vintage on Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:03 pm

There is something very wrong when you put little girls in hijabs, everytime there are photos in the local paper of primary schools many girls are wearing hijabs.
If an adult woman chooses to wear this so be it but not children, many mothers start them young because it takes some getting used to and they will have to wear them so want them trained before the girls may decide they don't want to wear them and there'll be trouble.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:07 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes it is. I'm not sure that people would boycott M&S just because they sell hijabs though.

I just boycott them because of the cheap goods.  Rolling Eyes

M&S are middle of the road, they always have been, but they are luxury personified compared to the most popular UK high street stores like Primark and Aldi.

I prefer Tesco, the people who shop at M&S are poncy.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:17 pm

*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
Syl wrote:

M&S are middle of the road, they always have been, but they are luxury personified compared to the most popular UK high street stores like Primark and Aldi.

I prefer Tesco, the people who shop at M&S are poncy.

Tesco isn't really the same sort of shop. M&S are very good for underwear - nothing poncy about that.

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Post by JulesV on Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:47 pm

M&S are tops for food quality. 
Prohibitively high prices tho.

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:11 pm

Jules wrote:M&S are tops for food quality. 
Prohibitively high prices tho.

Are you talking about Marks & Spencer? I shopped the one in the Financial District, and never saw any food for sale.

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Post by JulesV on Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:50 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Jules wrote:M&S are tops for food quality. 
Prohibitively high prices tho.

Are you talking about Marks & Spencer?  I shopped the one in the Financial District, and never saw any food for sale.

They sell both. More food than clothes, if anything.
But yes they may have stores targeted at special niches which sell only one or the other.
G/night Quill. xx

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Post by Syl on Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:57 pm

M&S food is great, and it doesn't work out much more expensive than other popular food outlets ...just look for the special offers.
The fresh fruit and veg doesnt usually go off quick like other similar priced shops either.

Their clothes have gone very dowdy though....Im not sure who their target market is now.

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Post by Syl on Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:16 pm

*THE Ben Reilly* wrote:
Syl wrote:

M&S are middle of the road, they always have been, but they are luxury personified compared to the most popular UK high street stores like Primark and Aldi.

I prefer Tesco, the people who shop at M&S are poncy.

How rude. snobby

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Post by Victorismyhero on Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:32 pm


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Post by eddie on Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:04 pm

I don’t understand why anyone has a problem with it anyway.
Is it because they think children shouldn’t be wearing a hijab? Or that the parents shouldn’t be dressing their daughters in hijabs? Or that M&S shouldn’t be selling the hijab?


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Post by Syl on Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:56 pm

eddie wrote:I don’t understand why anyone has a problem with it anyway.
Is it because they think children shouldn’t be wearing a hijab? Or that the parents shouldn’t be dressing their daughters in hijabs? Or that M&S shouldn’t be selling the hijab?


All of the above really.

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:05 pm

eddie wrote:I don’t understand why anyone has a problem with it anyway.
Is it because they think children shouldn’t be wearing a hijab? Or that the parents shouldn’t be dressing their daughters in hijabs? Or that M&S shouldn’t be selling the hijab?


Exactly. If they banned button-down shirts, it would be the same thing. Senseless.

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Post by Syl on Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:17 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:I don’t understand why anyone has a problem with it anyway.
Is it because they think children shouldn’t be wearing a hijab? Or that the parents shouldn’t be dressing their daughters in hijabs? Or that M&S shouldn’t be selling the hijab?


Exactly.  If they banned button-down shirts, it would be the same thing.  Senseless.

Would you think it acceptable if M&S introduced burkas in their school uniform essentials for primary school girls?
Young children should not be brain washed into believing they should cover their heads and hair up to prevent males from leering at them....and if their parents are so misguided they believe their kids should be covered, a major UK retailers should not be pandering to them...imo.

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:31 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Exactly.  If they banned button-down shirts, it would be the same thing.  Senseless.

Would you think it acceptable if  M&S introduced burkas in their school uniform essentials for primary school girls?

That would be up to the school. I always thought schools determined the uniforms. Or, if the uniform is mandatory, switch schools. What are the parents doing, sending the girls to Muslim schools if they are not Muslim?

Syl wrote:Young children should not be brain washed into believing they should cover their heads and hair up to prevent males from leering at them....and if their parents are so misguided they believe their kids should be covered, a major UK retailers should not be pandering to them...imo.

They could always buy something else.

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Post by Syl on Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

Would you think it acceptable if  M&S introduced burkas in their school uniform essentials for primary school girls?

That would be up to the school.  I always thought schools determined the uniforms.  Or, if the uniform is mandatory, switch schools.  What are the parents doing, sending the girls to Muslim schools if they are not Muslim?

Syl wrote:Young children should not be brain washed into believing they should cover their heads and hair up to prevent males from leering at them....and if their parents are so misguided they believe their kids should be covered, a major UK retailers should not be pandering to them...imo.

They could always buy something else.

They probably are Muslims, I doubt that's the latest must have fashion for trendy 4 year olds.

Odd that other countries are banning items of clothing that are seen to be isolating women from the rest of society....yet shops here are encouraging this isolation by selling garments for primary school kids to hide behind.


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Post by Eilzel on Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:35 am

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:I don’t understand why anyone has a problem with it anyway.
Is it because they think children shouldn’t be wearing a hijab? Or that the parents shouldn’t be dressing their daughters in hijabs? Or that M&S shouldn’t be selling the hijab?


Exactly.  If they banned button-down shirts, it would be the same thing.  Senseless.

Would you think it acceptable if  M&S introduced burkas in their school uniform essentials for primary school girls?
Young children should not be brain washed into believing they should cover their heads and hair up to prevent males from leering at them....and if their parents are so misguided they believe their kids should be covered, a major UK retailers should not be pandering to them...imo.

Totally agree, it is encouraging and enabling a backward practice.

Once again people are accepting the unacceptable because of religion.

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:21 am

When I was a kid, a half century or more ago, Catholic schools had uniforms. Grey skirts and white blouse, boys with dark blue cords and white shirts. It was a Catholic thing. We never thought a thing about it.

If it's "accepting the unacceptable because of religion," it's an old, old practice, nothing new.

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Post by nicko on Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:00 am

The idea is, start 'em off young wearing them, so they will carry on wearing them for the rest of their lives !
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Post by Syl on Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:21 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Syl wrote:

Would you think it acceptable if  M&S introduced burkas in their school uniform essentials for primary school girls?
Young children should not be brain washed into believing they should cover their heads and hair up to prevent males from leering at them....and if their parents are so misguided they believe their kids should be covered, a major UK retailers should not be pandering to them...imo.

Totally agree, it is encouraging and enabling a backward practice.

Once again people are accepting the unacceptable because of religion.

I think you feel stronger than I do about women wearing head and face coverings Eilzel, my opinion is IF it's their own choice to do so they should not be denied that choice  or made to feel uncomfortable by it.
To tell an adult what not to wear in their own time is as bad as telling them what they can wear imo.
Children have yet to make their minds up and shouldn't be forced into wearing something that really is totally inappropriate for them

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Post by Syl on Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:30 pm

Original Quill wrote:When I was a kid, a half century or more ago, Catholic schools had uniforms.  Grey skirts and white blouse, boys with dark blue cords and white shirts.  It was a Catholic thing.  We never thought a thing about it.

If it's "accepting the unacceptable because of religion," it's an old, old practice, nothing new.

Same here, most schools, primary and secondary have a school uniform similar to what you describe.
Its good because it bonds kids if they are dressed the same, gives a sense of community and stops kids without the latest designer gear feeling left out.
To sell an item of clothing that by it's very nature separates a child from classmates by covering up her head,hair  and possibly half her face is in direct opposition to what a school uniform should do.

M&S are selling hijabs as part of it's school uniform range. NINTCHDBPICT000440990921

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