Emotional moment TV host comes out on morning show saying he felt compelled to do so after a gay nine-year-old boy in Denver committed suicide

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Post by HoratioTarr on Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:59 am

A host on Univision's Despierta America came out on the morning show.

Luis Sandoval decided to let his viewers know during Thursday morning's show that he was gay on national Coming Out Day.

He said he felt compelled to do so after nine-year-old Jamel Myles committed suicide in August because his classmates had been teasing him about his sexual orientation.

Sandoval said he was appalled by the harsh treatment the child's mother received in the days following his death.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6270879/Univision-host-reveals-live-tv-hes-gay-impacted-suicide-nine-year-old-boy-Denver-boy.html
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Post by HoratioTarr on Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:03 am

First thing I thought when I read this is that why are we even allowing 9 year olds to be defined by their sexuality?

Any kid under the age of puberty shouldn't even have to think about what sexual orientation they are/might be. Let them be kids for as long as possible.

There's way too much emphasis on this. Way too much. That we are allowing babies as young as four to think they are gender binary or neutral is fucking insanity.

Sex is a matter children shouldn't even be thinking about. Sexuality in kids is what paedos think about. Not normal adults.

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:24 am

HoratioTarr wrote:First thing I thought when I read this is that why are we even allowing 9 year olds to be defined by their sexuality?  

Any kid under the age of puberty shouldn't even have to think about what sexual orientation they are/might be.   Let them be kids for as long as possible.  

There's way too much emphasis on this.  Way too much.   That we are allowing babies as young as four to think they are gender binary or neutral is fucking insanity.

Sex is a matter children shouldn't even be thinking about.   Sexuality in kids is what paedos think about.    Not normal adults.  


Wait. From reading the story, the boy was being teased about his sexuality and that led to his suicide.

Why are you going on about people being defined by their sexuality? A 9 year is certainly old enough to maybe have an idea of their sexuality, and certainly knows what 'gay' is. I don't know in this case whether the boy 'identified' that way, or if he was just picked on. I don't know if he was effeminate or not, if he was, that may have been why he was bullied. Some kids are camp from a very young age, and many who are often are gay.

Regardless, the only outtake from this story is that bullying for any reason, include sexuality or the perception of it, is hideously wrong.

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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:20 pm

It's because our kids are being conditioned to change sex , leave them to be kids instead of ramming sex change and other vile stuff at them .

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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:21 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:First thing I thought when I read this is that why are we even allowing 9 year olds to be defined by their sexuality?  

Any kid under the age of puberty shouldn't even have to think about what sexual orientation they are/might be.   Let them be kids for as long as possible.  

There's way too much emphasis on this.  Way too much.   That we are allowing babies as young as four to think they are gender binary or neutral is fucking insanity.

Sex is a matter children shouldn't even be thinking about.   Sexuality in kids is what paedos think about.    Not normal adults.  


agree

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:25 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:It's because our kids are being conditioned to change sex , leave them to be kids instead of ramming sex change and other vile stuff at them .

Really? You are going to come in on an article about homophobic bullying leading to suicide and refer to 'ramming sex change and other vile stuff'?

You are, as ever, part of the problem. Loving the red stripes I've been getting since you returned btw, carry on Laughing

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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:34 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:It's because our kids are being conditioned to change sex , leave them to be kids instead of ramming sex change and other vile stuff at them .

Really? You are going to come in on an article about homophobic bullying leading to suicide and refer to 'ramming sex change and other vile stuff'?

You are, as ever, part of the problem. Loving the red stripes I've been getting since you returned btw, carry on Laughing

I'm pleased its made you happy , you don't seem very happy so that's good I love to see people happy.

But for the record I haven't noticed any red stripes and find your delight in them really childish . Razz

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:37 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:It's because our kids are being conditioned to change sex , leave them to be kids instead of ramming sex change and other vile stuff at them .

Really? You are going to come in on an article about homophobic bullying leading to suicide and refer to 'ramming sex change and other vile stuff'?

You are, as ever, part of the problem. Loving the red stripes I've been getting since you returned btw, carry on Laughing

I'm pleased its made you happy , you don't seem very happy so that's good I love to see people happy.

But for the record I haven't noticed any red stripes and find your delight in them really childish . Razz

I probably don't seem happy when posting to you, for reasons you are no doubt aware. But good job with the butter wouldn't melt routine, going well, so far.

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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:49 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

I'm pleased its made you happy , you don't seem very happy so that's good I love to see people happy.

But for the record I haven't noticed any red stripes and find your delight in them really childish . Razz

I probably don't seem happy when posting to you, for reasons you are no doubt aware. But good job with the butter wouldn't melt routine, going well, so far.

You don't have to reply to me I haven't said anything offensive I wished you every happiness on your marriage which was genuine. I was under the impression that past disagreements / fights were to be left in the past . You're the one bringing up the past . Like i say if you don't feel happy replying to me then please don't , you shouldn't be unhappy .

I'm not trying to be anything other than myself .

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:56 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

I'm pleased its made you happy , you don't seem very happy so that's good I love to see people happy.

But for the record I haven't noticed any red stripes and find your delight in them really childish . Razz

I probably don't seem happy when posting to you, for reasons you are no doubt aware. But good job with the butter wouldn't melt routine, going well, so far.

You don't have to reply to me  I haven't said anything offensive I wished you every happiness on your marriage which was genuine. I was under the impression that past disagreements / fights were to be left in the past . You're the one bringing up the past . Like i say if you don't feel happy replying to me then please don't , you shouldn't be unhappy .

I'm not trying to be anything other than myself .

I'm not unhappy replying to you, I just feel no inclination to be nice considering your views regarding gay people, which obviously haven't changed.

Do you still think people are gay because they are possessed by demons?

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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:01 pm

I believe homosexuality is a demonic spirit , I don't think homosexuals are evil I just believe that they have let a demonic spirit enter them .

I can't change my beliefs lez , I'm not asking you to change your belief that homosexuality is something you're born with , but it is what I believe but i don't expect you to believe anything different.

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:16 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:I believe homosexuality is a demonic spirit , I don't think homosexuals are evil I just believe that they have let a demonic spirit enter them .

I can't change my beliefs lez , I'm not asking you to change your belief that homosexuality is something you're born with , but it is what I believe but i don't expect you to believe anything different.

You say you can't. I accept that. But that core belief determines all your opinions on the topic, such as the OP. A probably gay child commits suicide due to homophobic bullying and you blame schools for teaching about homosexuality. That is a problem.

And regardless of what others say there ARE views people can hold that WILL, rightfully, lead to them being disliked.

I can never, and will never, get along with someone who thinks I am possessed and that such possession incites my love. It is a disgusting belief imo, and a dangerous one.

As for replying to you. This is a free forum. I won't reply to you because it's you, but if you post something I want to reply to I will, even if only to express agreement Smile

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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:32 pm

You said it makes you unhappy replying to me so that's your problem if you reply and are unhappy. If you dislike me because of my belief then fair enough , but we are all entitled to our beliefs and opinions . We are free to believe whatever we want. I didn't say you are possessed I said a demonic spirit is in you which is what i believe it doesn't mean you are evil because you're clearly not evil , but you won't understand the meaning of demonic influence without being a believer , you probably think its something like the exorcist lol, demonic spirits are all kinds of spirits , Christians can be influenced by them . I could go on about it but you wouldn't want to hear it .

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:25 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:It's because our kids are being conditioned to change sex , leave them to be kids instead of ramming sex change and other vile stuff at them .

Really? You are going to come in on an article about homophobic bullying leading to suicide and refer to 'ramming sex change and other vile stuff'?

You are, as ever, part of the problem.

Totally agree with you. People come upon these stories and they see their own scripts and causes in them...when, in fact, if they had just taken the story per the facts, they could write their script another time.

This is a story about bullying, not about acculturation of children. It's particularly interesting because it's a Spanish-language station...presumably speaking primarily to an Hispanic audience.

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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:30 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

You don't have to reply to me  I haven't said anything offensive I wished you every happiness on your marriage which was genuine. I was under the impression that past disagreements / fights were to be left in the past . You're the one bringing up the past . Like i say if you don't feel happy replying to me then please don't , you shouldn't be unhappy .

I'm not trying to be anything other than myself .

I'm not unhappy replying to you, I just feel no inclination to be nice considering your views regarding gay people, which obviously haven't changed.

Do you still think people are gay because they are possessed by demons?


And how are your views towards her mate?

Seriously?

Its a no win situation with that attitude

I think Dibs is completely wrong, but for you to say you are not happy replying?

Do you need a safe space?

Seriously?

What you have not shown to Dibs is one simple factor. Her distain of homosexuality is not born from reason, but emotions in beliefs.

Learn to unravel those barriers that uphold such a belief

That is the challenge I am setting for you mate

As Dibs does care

See past the intolerance of her beliefs and actually reason why its wrong to discriminate against you, for who you are mate

I know you can

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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:38 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:You said it makes you unhappy replying to me so that's your problem if you reply and are unhappy. If you dislike me because of my belief then fair enough , but we are all entitled to our beliefs and opinions . We are free to believe whatever we want. I didn't say you are possessed I said a demonic spirit is in you which is what i believe it doesn't mean you are evil because you're clearly not evil , but you won't understand the meaning of demonic influence without being a believer , you probably think its something like the exorcist lol, demonic spirits are all kinds of spirits , Christians can be influenced by them . I could go on about it  but you wouldn't want to hear it .


You are entittled to your beliefs, but are you entittled to deny a person happiness, based on your beliefs. When its two adults in love?

The answer is no

What if someone said your son, daughter ect could not go out with their love, becuase of beliefs?

I am sorry, but one thing I know about Christianity is this

I was rasied a catholic and I know that many Catholics and Christians do not follow the teachings of Jesus

He taught love and acceptance and the kind of Christianity you preach Dibs, is not being in acceptance

Unless you think you know better than Jesus?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:16 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:First thing I thought when I read this is that why are we even allowing 9 year olds to be defined by their sexuality?  

Any kid under the age of puberty shouldn't even have to think about what sexual orientation they are/might be.   Let them be kids for as long as possible.  

There's way too much emphasis on this.  Way too much.   That we are allowing babies as young as four to think they are gender binary or neutral is fucking insanity.

Sex is a matter children shouldn't even be thinking about.   Sexuality in kids is what paedos think about.    Not normal adults.  



Great post!


Blame the insidious lefty PC culture that infests and dictates in so much of our schools, colleges, councils, media now...

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Post by Syl on Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:48 pm

The overriding message to me is that some kids will bully anyone they see to be different or weaker than they are.
The gay kid, the fat kid, the kid who wears glasses, the timid kid....stamp out bullying first and foremost, do that and most of the other problems will solve themselves in time.

Just to add....I thought the idea that gay people were possessed by a demonic spirit was outdated along with electric shock therapy and other barbaric thoughts and measures.

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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:54 pm

Didge wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:You said it makes you unhappy replying to me so that's your problem if you reply and are unhappy. If you dislike me because of my belief then fair enough , but we are all entitled to our beliefs and opinions . We are free to believe whatever we want. I didn't say you are possessed I said a demonic spirit is in you which is what i believe it doesn't mean you are evil because you're clearly not evil , but you won't understand the meaning of demonic influence without being a believer , you probably think its something like the exorcist lol, demonic spirits are all kinds of spirits , Christians can be influenced by them . I could go on about it  but you wouldn't want to hear it .


You are entittled to your beliefs, but are you entittled to deny a person happiness, based on your beliefs. When its two adults in love?

The answer is no

What if someone said your son, daughter ect could not go out with their love, becuase of beliefs?

I am sorry, but one thing I know about Christianity is this

I was rasied a catholic and I know that many Catholics and Christians do not follow the teachings of Jesus

He taught love and acceptance and the kind of Christianity you preach Dibs, is not being in acceptance

Unless you think you know better than Jesus?

But didge, you are so wrong which is not all that unusual , Jesus did teach love but he did not teach to tolerate things that were wrong, so saying that as Christians we should accept anything is not what Jesus taught at all. May i ask you a question ?
Based on love do you think incest should be made legal ?

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Post by nicko on Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:33 pm

Jesus said, "a man shall not lie with a man " is that correct ?
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Post by Original Quill on Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:46 pm

nicko wrote:Jesus said,  "a man shall not lie with a man "   is that correct ?

No, that was long after Jesus, if at all. The Bible was a collection of hand chosen essays by the Council of Nicaea, starting about AD 325.

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:53 am

Didge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

You don't have to reply to me  I haven't said anything offensive I wished you every happiness on your marriage which was genuine. I was under the impression that past disagreements / fights were to be left in the past . You're the one bringing up the past . Like i say if you don't feel happy replying to me then please don't , you shouldn't be unhappy .

I'm not trying to be anything other than myself .

I'm not unhappy replying to you, I just feel no inclination to be nice considering your views regarding gay people, which obviously haven't changed.

Do you still think people are gay because they are possessed by demons?


And how are your views towards her mate?

Seriously?

Its a no win situation with that attitude

I think Dibs is completely wrong, but for you to say you are not happy replying?

Do you need a safe space?

Seriously?

What you have not shown to Dibs is one simple factor. Her distain of homosexuality is not born from reason, but emotions in beliefs.

Learn to unravel those barriers that uphold such a belief

That is the challenge I am setting for you mate

As Dibs does care

See past the intolerance of her beliefs and actually reason why its wrong to discriminate against you, for who you are mate

I know you can

Check again, mate. I said I'm not UNhappy replying to her Wink

And after 9 years of the same I'm through trying to reason with delusions.

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:55 am

nicko wrote:Jesus said,  "a man shall not lie with a man "   is that correct ?

No he didn't. It's in the Old Testament, in the same chapter that says not to wear clothes of mixed fibres and not to eat sea food. Oh, and the same book that includes talking snakes, giants and a man being told to kill his son to show his love for god. So pretty silly all things considered.

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Post by Guest on Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:29 am

Eilzel wrote:
Didge wrote:


And how are your views towards her mate?

Seriously?

Its a no win situation with that attitude

I think Dibs is completely wrong, but for you to say you are not happy replying?

Do you need a safe space?

Seriously?

What you have not shown to Dibs is one simple factor. Her distain of homosexuality is not born from reason, but emotions in beliefs.

Learn to unravel those barriers that uphold such a belief

That is the challenge I am setting for you mate

As Dibs does care

See past the intolerance of her beliefs and actually reason why its wrong to discriminate against you, for who you are mate

I know you can

Check again, mate. I said I'm not UNhappy replying to her Wink

And after 9 years of the same I'm through trying to reason with delusions.

Then you simple admit defeat

Sorry to hear, becuase I was once like her and yet i changed

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Post by Guest on Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:32 am

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
Didge wrote:


You are entittled to your beliefs, but are you entittled to deny a person happiness, based on your beliefs. When its two adults in love?

The answer is no

What if someone said your son, daughter ect could not go out with their love, becuase of beliefs?

I am sorry, but one thing I know about Christianity is this

I was rasied a catholic and I know that many Catholics and Christians do not follow the teachings of Jesus

He taught love and acceptance and the kind of Christianity you preach Dibs, is not being in acceptance

Unless you think you know better than Jesus?

But didge, you are so wrong which is not all that unusual , Jesus did teach love but he did not teach to tolerate things that were wrong, so saying that as Christians we should accept anything is not what Jesus taught at all. May i ask you a question ?
Based on love do you think incest should be made legal ?

Did he?

Where did he teach to be intolerant, by saving a woman being stonned to death?

Was that intolerance or love?

Yes i do think two dults in love, no matter if related should be legal

As its none of your buisness or mine. As what harm is being done?

So how is two people in love wrong Dibs?

Unless you think love is wrong and then you clearly have never understood the message Jesus portrayed

As love does not come with conditions

If it does, then that love is conditional and thus meaningless

Hence why nobody actually loves their god, but lies saying they do, based on fear. On what they have been lied to over, that they will suffer if they do not. That is not love, but slavery. Its like having a relationship with a domineering, control freak, that puts the fear of life into people, if they do not love them. That is something to look at with utter distain. As that is not love, but servitude. Its basically supporting domestic violence.

Hence a conditional love is thus not freely given. As fear drives that devotion and in no way can it be classed as love.

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:42 am

Didge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Didge wrote:


And how are your views towards her mate?

Seriously?

Its a no win situation with that attitude

I think Dibs is completely wrong, but for you to say you are not happy replying?

Do you need a safe space?

Seriously?

What you have not shown to Dibs is one simple factor. Her distain of homosexuality is not born from reason, but emotions in beliefs.

Learn to unravel those barriers that uphold such a belief

That is the challenge I am setting for you mate

As Dibs does care

See past the intolerance of her beliefs and actually reason why its wrong to discriminate against you, for who you are mate

I know you can

Check again, mate. I said I'm not UNhappy replying to her Wink

And after 9 years of the same I'm through trying to reason with delusions.

Then you simple admit defeat

Sorry to hear, becuase I was once like her and yet i changed

I do admit defeat, if you want to cast this as a challenge, which I don't.

I doubt many religious fundamentalists are going to have their deepest beliefs altered by people they oppose on forums.

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Post by veya_victaous on Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:08 am

Eilzel wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:First thing I thought when I read this is that why are we even allowing 9 year olds to be defined by their sexuality?  

Any kid under the age of puberty shouldn't even have to think about what sexual orientation they are/might be.   Let them be kids for as long as possible.  

There's way too much emphasis on this.  Way too much.   That we are allowing babies as young as four to think they are gender binary or neutral is fucking insanity.

Sex is a matter children shouldn't even be thinking about.   Sexuality in kids is what paedos think about.    Not normal adults.  


Wait. From reading the story, the boy was being teased about his sexuality and that led to his suicide.

Why are you going on about people being defined by their sexuality? A 9 year is certainly old enough to maybe have an idea of their sexuality, and certainly knows what 'gay' is. I don't know in this case whether the boy 'identified' that way, or if he was just picked on. I don't know if he was effeminate or not, if he was, that may have been why he was bullied. Some kids are camp from a very young age, and many who are often are gay.

Regardless, the only outtake from this story is that bullying for any reason, include sexuality or the perception of it, is hideously wrong.


Yeah, by 9 being teased about being 'gay' quite separate to actual sexual orientation is a real thing.


I pretty much agree with everything les said

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Post by veya_victaous on Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:14 am

nicko wrote:Jesus said,  "a man shall not lie with a man "   is that correct ?

No, that is false
Jesus never said much about 'rules', others before and after do
almost all the Direct Jesus quotes are positive affirmations "let he without sin cast the first stone" etc

the only 'rule' Jesus is recorded as getting upset/mad about being broken is the 'Money lenders in Temple'
Based on the Bible, Jesus would definitely be more upset with Capitalism than Homosexuality

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Post by Guest on Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:47 am

Eilzel wrote:
Didge wrote:

Then you simple admit defeat

Sorry to hear, becuase I was once like her and yet i changed

I do admit defeat, if you want to cast this as a challenge, which I don't.

I doubt many religious fundamentalists are going to have their deepest beliefs altered by people they oppose on forums.

And yet people have helped change my opinions on here

namely Victor being one of them

To be honest most on here are fundemenalists in their beliefs

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:37 am

Didge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Didge wrote:

Then you simple admit defeat

Sorry to hear, becuase I was once like her and yet i changed

I do admit defeat, if you want to cast this as a challenge, which I don't.

I doubt many religious fundamentalists are going to have their deepest beliefs altered by people they oppose on forums.

And yet people have helped change my opinions on here

namely Victor being one of them

To be honest most on here are fundemenalists in their beliefs

I never said people can't have their opinions changed here. Generally, I think most opinions are at least somewhat open to change. I think there are few fundamentalists here actually, but we cannot really know one way or the other. A fundamentalist would have to adhere to an entire doctrine or system of beliefs. I don't think any one here does that. I, for instance, might be 'fundamentalist' in my belief in the provision of a National Health system and quality free education, I am not, however, so fundamentalist in my view that abortion should be legal. My, and others, views on one thing or another vary in their conviction.

The only times fundamentalism comes into is when one takes up a banner, be that a religion or a political world view (communism, socialism, capitalism etc.) and would defend every aspect of it till they were blue in the face. There are only a handful that might be considered that way here.

Vic changing your view on some issues is not comparable to breaking the barrier of fundamentalism. It just shows what happens when two intelligent people talk things out.

But to expect the hardcore beliefs of one indoctrinated into an extreme branch of Christianity to be changed successfully in a place like this is a stretch. I doubt it can be done. And ultimately, since it does not impact my life, I have no interest in trying after 9 years of the same.

I will always try to change the minds of people I respect when we disagree on politics, social justice, climate change, evolution, conspiracies, religious rights and so on. But in this case, that criteria is not met, and overall, I don't care enough to bother Smile

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Post by 'Wolfie on Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:24 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:First thing I thought when I read this is that why are we even allowing 9 year olds to be defined by their sexuality?  

Any kid under the age of puberty shouldn't even have to think about what sexual orientation they are/might be.   Let them be kids for as long as possible.  

There's way too much emphasis on this.  Way too much.   That we are allowing babies as young as four to think they are gender binary or neutral is fucking insanity.

Sex is a matter children shouldn't even be thinking about.   Sexuality in kids is what paedos think about.    Not normal adults.  

Great post!

Blame the insidious lefty PC culture that infests and dictates in so much of our schools, colleges, councils, media now...

Emotional moment TV host comes out on morning show saying he felt compelled to do so after a gay nine-year-old boy in Denver committed suicide 3489511464

Only in your wild imagination, you dopey fascist twat...

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Post by 'Wolfie on Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:30 am

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
I believe homosexuality is a demonic spirit , I don't think homosexuals are evil I just believe that they have let a demonic spirit enter them .

I can't change my beliefs lez , I'm not asking you to change your belief that homosexuality is something you're born with , but it is what I believe but i don't expect you to believe anything different.

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And with VoD's few crazy posts today, we have seen living proof that the silly little muppet has obviously never actually bothered to read the Bible...

I wonder exactly where she gets those loopy superstitious beliefs from -- maybe she had a 'batshit crazy' Sunday School teacher ?

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Post by Guest on Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:33 pm

I see my greatest fan is here Smile afternoon wolfie . Have a great day be blessed .

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Post by Guest on Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:00 pm

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:I see my greatest fan is here Smile afternoon wolfie . Have a great day be blessed .


lol!

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:29 pm

But actually there is a good debate to be had here - the Bible's actual stance on homosexuality, and how Christians choose to interpret them.

For one thing, if you look at the 10 Commandments, there's no commandment to be straight, or not to be gay. If God cared so much about sexual orientation, you'd think he'd include it in the commandments.

Also, Jesus never mentions homosexuality. Again, you'd think he would have if it was that important.

Depending on which version of the Bible you look at, there are at most seven verses that mention homosexuality or can even *possibly be interpreted* as addressing it. Of those, the two most direct are in Leviticus:

Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Okay, those are pretty clear-cut commandments. Let's not pretend they aren't.

But just for the sake of debate, let's pull out a few more clear-cut commandments from Leviticus:

Leviticus 20:10

And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus 20:15

And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

Most Christians today don't kill adulterers, or a guy who has sex with his dog, and certainly not the dog. Most Christians don't advocate killing gay people, either.

So Christians are choosing to ignore these Biblical commandments.

How can you ignore commandments from the Bible and still cite the Bible as the reason you are against something?

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Post by nicko on Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:29 pm

"They shall not lie with a male" I posted that, Veya said it was BS !
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Post by Eilzel on Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:39 pm

nicko wrote: "They shall not lie with a male"    I posted that,  Veya said it was BS !

No nicko, he said Jesus didn't say it - which is correct.

And Ben is pointing out, as I did, that the Bible says a lot of things most Christians don't follow or ignore.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:45 pm

The Bible also calls shellfish an abomination, blah blah blah. I can cite chapter and verse if need be.

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Post by nicko on Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:58 pm

The best tasting Shellfish IE Cockles and Mussels etc, are the ones collected from near Sewage outfalls !
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Post by Original Quill on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:03 pm

nicko wrote:The best tasting Shellfish IE Cockles and Mussels etc, are the ones collected from near Sewage outfalls
!

In this country the best tasting shellfish comes from the Gulf of Mexico...and decidedly not from the Sea of Cortez. If what you say is true, nicko, what does that say about the southern states that border the Gulf of Mexico?

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Post by veya_victaous on Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:47 pm

nicko wrote: "They shall not lie with a male"    I posted that,  Veya said it was BS !

Leviticus Said it Not Jesus 
he said it before Jesus was Born  Wink

Basically 
Leviticus is a Wanker (he says most of the Shit Rules) 
Jesus is actually pretty good and said to ignore Leviticus's rules

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Post by 'Wolfie on Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:30 am

veya_victaous wrote:
nicko wrote: "They shall not lie with a male"    I posted that,  Veya said it was BS !

Leviticus Said it Not Jesus 
he said it before Jesus was Born  Wink

Basically 
Leviticus is a Wanker (he says most of the Shit Rules) 
Jesus is actually pretty good and said to ignore Leviticus's rules

Laughing

Too true that,  veya...

Nicko and VoD have both failed miserably on this thread, yesterday and today...

*****************************?*

Some more handy  Jesus-isms to show up those who keep on misusing and abusing him,  can be found in Matthew's reporting of Jesus's "Sermons on the Mount", re: how you treat others, to tolerate children, to be careful how you judge others...

Jesus preached charity, tolerance, compassion --  the very opposite of what we often see from VoD, Raggs, gelico and co. .

grin angel

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Post by 'Wolfie on Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:42 am

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
I see my greatest fan is here Smile afternoon wolfie . Have a great day be blessed .

G'Day

I just find it laughable to continually see how many of you self-proclaimed "Christians" on here, so often so proudly wearing your faiths on your sleeves -- while trying to use your Gods to back your intolerances, have obviously never bothered to actually read your Bibles !!!

Just keep it as a bookend or a doorstop, do you ???

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Post by Syl on Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:19 pm

I am not religious, but sometimes I think none religious people have far more empathy and show a lot more understanding than people (of all faiths) who claim to live their lives in accordance to whichever God or Prophet they follow.

The way I see it is the bible (or any other holy book) was written by men for men, it's like a book of fables, take from it what you will, some messages are good some are bad and often they contradict each other.

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Post by eddie on Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:41 pm

Syl wrote:The overriding message to me is that some kids will bully anyone they see to be different or weaker than they are.
The gay kid, the fat kid, the kid who wears glasses, the timid kid....stamp out bullying first and foremost, do that and most of the other problems will solve themselves in time.

Just to add....I thought the idea that gay people were possessed by a demonic spirit was outdated along with electric shock therapy and other barbaric thoughts and measures.


In answer to the first part of your post, bullying will always be around and it’s hard to stamp out. I think we need to teach kids to be tougher actually as society will never, ever, get a grip on bullying or people throwing insults. Better to change the person who receives them into a thicker-skinned person full of self-belief and love.

As to the second part of your post....it should be.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:07 pm

Although still an elder in the Presbyterian Church, I no longer subscribe to Christianity.  The Church gained strength by being the pawn of Constantine, in order to pull the Empire back together.  The Church has political roots.

Metaphysically, the Church has no factual basis.  The idea is that a bearded old man, apparently naked, lives in the sky and is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.  He is something of a father figure, although the Christian version is a bit more benevolent than the Old Testament.

However the true Christian Church has a fascinating historical basis.  There was such a person as Jesus, however he was never the individual that Paul led us to think.  (The Pauline tales related to Constantine's mission).  Jesus was the founder of modern humanism, and his mission should be called Christian Charity.

Jesus was the founder of a small Jewish sect we now call the Church of Jerusalem.  Most of it has been denied and overwritten by the Pauline, Roman Church, whose mission made it (Romanism) a jealous, all-consuming entity (including it's book, called the Holy Bible).

Christian Charity was premature, as the Roman enmity was not yet finished.  And, as mentioned, it carried over in the institution of the Roman Church.  However, the Gutenberg revolution, Protestantism and eventually the Renaissance, took over, and made conditions ripe for humanism.

Unfortunately, humanism is recognized as neither a religion nor a philosophy.  It's called Liberalism.

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Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:23 pm

eddie wrote:
Syl wrote:The overriding message to me is that some kids will bully anyone they see to be different or weaker than they are.
The gay kid, the fat kid, the kid who wears glasses, the timid kid....stamp out bullying first and foremost, do that and most of the other problems will solve themselves in time.

Just to add....I thought the idea that gay people were possessed by a demonic spirit was outdated along with electric shock therapy and other barbaric thoughts and measures.


In answer to the first part of your post, bullying will always be around and it’s hard to stamp out. I think we need to teach kids to be tougher actually as society will never, ever, get a grip on bullying or people throwing insults. Better to change the person who receives them into a thicker-skinned person full of self-belief and love.

As to the second part of your post....it should be.

I disagree.   Children learn by copying the behaviours of their parents and those around them.   But they're not daft either.   If they can be shown or taught compassion and made to realise how much bullying hurts and the damage it does they might grow up to be better adults.   Being taught this in schools, compassion, how to behave socially, how to be polite and have some fucking manners.
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Post by Syl on Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:47 pm

RE bullies and bullying, yes, bullying has always been around but that doesnt mean we should tolerate it when we see it.
Unfortunately too many people, in and out of schools, turn a blind eye and expect the bullied to stand up for themselves.
That may work for some, but it smacks a bit too much of victim blaming to me.
Not every child has the physical or mental capacity to stand up to bullies, who often run in a crowd (which also makes them cowards but kids dont se it like that)
Its up to parents, teachers, society on a whole to stamp out bullying when they see it....why should it be accepted just because it's always gone on?

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Emotional moment TV host comes out on morning show saying he felt compelled to do so after a gay nine-year-old boy in Denver committed suicide Empty Re: Emotional moment TV host comes out on morning show saying he felt compelled to do so after a gay nine-year-old boy in Denver committed suicide

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:06 pm

Eilzel wrote:
nicko wrote:Jesus said,  "a man shall not lie with a man "   is that correct ?

No he didn't. It's in the Old Testament, in the same chapter that says not to wear clothes of mixed fibres and not to eat sea food. Oh, and the same book that includes talking snakes, giants and a man being told to kill his son to show his love for god. So pretty silly all things considered.

I thought you studied religion when training to become a teacher ?

Romans 1:26-27 New King James Version (NKJV)
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their [a]women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the [b]men, leaving the natural use of the [c]woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

The Epistle to the Romans or Letter to the Romans, often shortened to Romans, is the sixth book in the New Testament. Biblical scholars agree that it was composed by the Apostle Paul to explain that salvation is offered through the gospel of Jesus Christ.

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