Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

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Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by Didge on Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:34 am

Transgender activists have been accused of attempting to shut down debate, as a former children’s minister said that young people’s welfare is being “sacrificed on the altar of political correctness”.

The women’s minister is facing a backlash after saying that she is “a little cautious” about the number of teenagers undergoing gender reassignment treatment. Victoria Atkins warned the country needs to be “particularly alert” to the issue, and expressed concern that a rising number of teenagers were seeking “life-changing” medical interventions.

LGBT+ campaigners accused her making "damaging" comments and warned that people's "lives are at stake".

Tim Loughton, a Tory MP and former children’s minister, said that Ms Atkins is “absolutely right” to be cautious about children “rushing” to change their genders.

“Nobody is trying to suppress the right of young people to express themselves and their sexuality in any way,” he told The Daily Telegraph.

“Of course we should be cautious and give them all the support they need on life changing decisions about their gender.

“My concern is that those who have a political agenda seem to want to sacrifice the welfare of children on the altar of political correctness and equalities whereas every child needs to be respected and supported in their own right. This is about individuals, not other people’s agendas.”

Politicians and academics have expressed concern at the way in which the “transgender lobby” are so quick to close down discussions.

James Caspian, a psychotherapist who specialises in working with transgender people, said: “What’s so incredible is that if anyone says anything critical about transgender [issues], this lobby come out and just attack the people who are saying it rather than taking on board what they are saying and discussing it.”

Frank Furedi, emeritus professor of sociology Kent University, added: “There is an assumption that there’s only one truth, one story you can tell and anyone who raises doubt or caution is immediately dismissed as a violator of human rights.

“It indicates that this is beyond discussion and all you can do is nod your head and shut up. In a democratic society that sets a very dangerous precedent.”


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/27/transgender-activists-accused-attempting-shut-downdebate/

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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:37 am

I'll say this for the right - they have some of the best underhanded tactics for shaping public opinion.

The left should really learn this latest trick. Here's how it goes, as I see it:

1) Say whatever you want.

2) Get attacked for it.

3) Accuse those attacking you of "shutting down the debate;" you can also accuse them of being anti-free speech.

It's funny (and unfair) because the attacks ARE debate and free speech, just like the initial claims are, but somehow this gambit turns criticism into censorship.

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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by nicko on Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:18 pm

Gender this, gender that, There's only two, 1 male, 1 female !
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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by eddie on Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:30 pm

I’ve always believed that some people feel they are “born in the wrong bodies” but I do also think that there’s a small minority of teens who may be following this new ‘trend’....there seems to be an awful lost of silly young girls, for instance, on Facebook and other social media sites, who thinks it’s hip to be Bi.


Take the issue seriously, absolutely, but let’s not just give young people operations willy-nilly.

Pardon the pun. Wink

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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by gelico on Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:16 pm

Ben Cottonpickin' Reilly wrote:I'll say this for the right - they have some of the best underhanded tactics for shaping public opinion.

The left should really learn this latest trick. Here's how it goes, as I see it:

1) Say whatever you want.

2) Get attacked for it.

3) Accuse those attacking you of "shutting down the debate;" you can also accuse them of being anti-free speech.

It's funny (and unfair) because the attacks ARE debate and free speech, just like the initial claims are, but somehow this gambit turns criticism into censorship.




James Caspian, a psychotherapist who specialises in working with transgender people, said: “What’s so incredible is that if anyone says anything critical about transgender [issues], this lobby come out and just attack the people who are saying it rather than taking on board what they are saying and discussing it.”



why is it so unfair to have concerns and to want to be cautious about giving life changing operations ''willy nilly''

the request is for discussion and debate on the issue

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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by Original Quill on Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:19 pm

nicko wrote:Gender this, gender that,  There's only two, 1 male, 1 female !

And don't forget the sheep. Twisted Evil

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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by Eilzel on Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:27 pm

eddie wrote:I’ve always believed that some people feel they are “born in the wrong bodies” but I do also think that there’s a small minority of teens who may be following this new ‘trend’....there seems to be an awful lost of silly young girls, for instance, on Facebook and other social media sites, who thinks it’s hip to be Bi.


Take the issue seriously, absolutely, but let’s not just give young people operations willy-nilly.

Pardon the pun. Wink

Yeah, that and the equally ridiculous idea they are neither male nor female.

I am absolutely in agreement someone can feel they are in the wrong body. But you are either a man or woman whichever way.

People seem to think it's edgy and enlightened now to be a different gender day to day, or none at all...

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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by nicko on Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:51 pm

Quill, I forgot the Goats as well !
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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:30 pm

gelico wrote:
Ben Cottonpickin' Reilly wrote:I'll say this for the right - they have some of the best underhanded tactics for shaping public opinion.

The left should really learn this latest trick. Here's how it goes, as I see it:

1) Say whatever you want.

2) Get attacked for it.

3) Accuse those attacking you of "shutting down the debate;" you can also accuse them of being anti-free speech.

It's funny (and unfair) because the attacks ARE debate and free speech, just like the initial claims are, but somehow this gambit turns criticism into censorship.




James Caspian, a psychotherapist who specialises in working with transgender people, said: “What’s so incredible is that if anyone says anything critical about transgender [issues], this lobby come out and just attack the people who are saying it rather than taking on board what they are saying and discussing it.”



why is it so unfair to have concerns and to want to be cautious about giving life changing operations  ''willy nilly''

the request is for discussion and debate on the issue

How many people do you think decide just on a whim, just to be cool, to have their genitalia mutilated, their appearance altered and to go on hormones for the rest of their lives?

Most people wouldn't get a tattoo on a whim, let alone change their gender.

To say, "Now let's hold on" is basically to mock the vast majority of people who want gender reassignment, by pretending that they haven't really thought it through, and to question their decision simply because we can't imagine ever doing it.

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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by Didge on Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:26 pm

Ben Cottonpickin' Reilly wrote:
gelico wrote:




James Caspian, a psychotherapist who specialises in working with transgender people, said: “What’s so incredible is that if anyone says anything critical about transgender [issues], this lobby come out and just attack the people who are saying it rather than taking on board what they are saying and discussing it.”



why is it so unfair to have concerns and to want to be cautious about giving life changing operations  ''willy nilly''

the request is for discussion and debate on the issue

How many people do you think decide just on a whim, just to be cool, to have their genitalia mutilated, their appearance altered and to go on hormones for the rest of their lives?

Most people wouldn't get a tattoo on a whim, let alone change their gender.

To say, "Now let's hold on" is basically to mock the vast majority of people who want gender reassignment, by pretending that they haven't really thought it through, and to question their decision simply because we can't imagine ever doing it.

And how many people harm themselves for attention?

So your view is absurd, as is this for some down to attention seeking when some have come to regret such alterating surgery?

To say its right to question and researh further to understand why there has been a significant increase is just basic common sense. Where some may have instead a mental health condition. Where they should have all the help they can get

That has fuck all to do with right wing

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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by Didge on Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:34 pm

And its very clear there is a political agenda from some of the trans community

Sex education resources often use videos, pictures, and diagrams as a way to convey important information, though these images and videos have historically failed to reflect or provide information about same-sex and queer relationships. In fact, the GLSEN 2015 National School Climate Survey shows that only about 5 percent of LGBTQ students saw LGBTQ representation in health class.

These guides also often unnecessarily gender body parts as being “male parts” and “female parts” and refer to “sex with women” or “sex with men,” excluding those who identify as nonbinary. Many individuals don’t see body parts as having a gender — people have a gender.

And as a result, the notion that a penis is exclusively a male body part and a vulva is exclusively a female body part is inaccurate. By using the word “parts” to talk about genitals and using medical terms for anatomy without attaching a gender to it, we become much more able to effectively discuss safe sex in a way that’s clear and inclusive.

For the purposes of this guide, we’ve chosen to include alternative words for readers to use for their genitals. For example, some trans men choose to use the words “front hole” or “internal genital” instead of “vagina.” Alternatively, some trans women may say “strapless” or “girl dick” for penis. This usage is meant for one-on-one communication with trusted persons, such as your doctor or partner, not for broad discussion.

https://www.healthline.com/health/lgbtqia-safe-sex-guide#why-we-need-it

The above is just made up bullshit and it flies in the face of actual biology

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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by Didge on Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:05 am

And more evidence its political by some of the trans comunity and that they are shutting down speech.

The severe lack of understanding surrounding the topic - and its reversal counterpart - became particularly prevalent last week, when a proposed study to explore why transsexual people may want to “detransition” was reportedly shut down by Bath Spa University so as “not to offend people.”

“The fundamental reason given was that it might cause criticism of the research on social media and criticism of the research would be criticism of the university and they also added it was better not to offend people,” James Caspian, the psychotherapist behind the proposed research, told BBC Radio 4.

He confessed to being “astonished” at the university’s decision.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gender-reversal-surgery-demand-rise-assignment-men-women-trans-a7980416.html

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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by Didge on Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:29 am

No one could accuse psychotherapist James Caspian of being a bigot or prejudiced against transgender people. His LGBT — that's lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender — credentials are impeccable.

For this slight, measured, gay man is not only a trustee of the transgender charity The Beaumont Trust, but he has dedicated more than a decade of his life to counselling hundreds of patients who wish to change their gender.

He publishes academic papers on the subject, contributes to books and addresses some of the finest minds in the health professions at conferences around the world — and has done extensive work training fellow psychotherapists on transgender awareness.

If there was ever an expert in this field, James, 58, is it. But lately James has had a gutful of the increasingly frustrating politics surrounding the trans lobby, after a study he wanted to carry out into transgender people was blocked by Bath Spa University for being 'politically incorrect'.

The nature of his research? To ask questions about the increasing numbers of people who were changing gender and subsequently regretting it. 'I'm not anti-trans. I've helped hundreds of people while they were transitioning, but when I started to do preliminary research I was taken aback by what I discovered,' he says.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4979498/James-Caspian-attacked-transgender-children-comments.html

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/sep/25/bath-spa-university-transgender-gender-reassignment-reversal-research

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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:27 pm

Didge wrote:
Ben Cottonpickin' Reilly wrote:
gelico wrote:




James Caspian, a psychotherapist who specialises in working with transgender people, said: “What’s so incredible is that if anyone says anything critical about transgender [issues], this lobby come out and just attack the people who are saying it rather than taking on board what they are saying and discussing it.”



why is it so unfair to have concerns and to want to be cautious about giving life changing operations  ''willy nilly''

the request is for discussion and debate on the issue

How many people do you think decide just on a whim, just to be cool, to have their genitalia mutilated, their appearance altered and to go on hormones for the rest of their lives?

Most people wouldn't get a tattoo on a whim, let alone change their gender.

To say, "Now let's hold on" is basically to mock the vast majority of people who want gender reassignment, by pretending that they haven't really thought it through, and to question their decision simply because we can't imagine ever doing it.

And how many people harm themselves for attention?

So your view is absurd, as is this for some down to attention seeking when some have come to regret such alterating surgery?

To say its right to question and researh further to understand why there has been a significant increase is just basic common sense. Where some may have instead a mental health condition. Where they should have all the help they can  get

That has fuck all to do with right wing

How many harm themselves for attention? Not very many, in comparison to the general population.

And harming themselves for attention generally means cutting themselves in ways that heal within a couple of days. Not having a surgeon redesign their genitals.

Sorry, the entire premise of this argument triggers my bullshit detector; the vast majority of people don't undergo major surgery for shits and giggles.

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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:34 pm

And just one other thing. In a free society, some people are going to make stupid decisions. You can't have freedom without the freedom to make the wrong choice. That means a very small number of people would decide to get gender reassignment surgery for reasons other than their body not matching the gender they feel themselves to be.

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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by Didge on Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:59 pm

Ben Cottonpickin' Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:

And how many people harm themselves for attention?

So your view is absurd, as is this for some down to attention seeking when some have come to regret such alterating surgery?

To say its right to question and researh further to understand why there has been a significant increase is just basic common sense. Where some may have instead a mental health condition. Where they should have all the help they can  get

That has fuck all to do with right wing

How many harm themselves for attention? Not very many, in comparison to the general population.

And harming themselves for attention generally means cutting themselves in ways that heal within a couple of days. Not having a surgeon redesign their genitals.

Sorry, the entire premise of this argument triggers my bullshit detector; the vast majority of people don't undergo major surgery for shits and giggles.

1)Gibberish, not backed by any stats

2) It can mean any things but the point has gone over your head it seems

3) The entirety of your hissy fit, of your failing to see how little is known about gender dysphoria and where it can be wrongly diagnosed. Where in fact some may instead have mental health conditions. Proes you are part of the problem and by the above,shows you want to dimiss any possibilities. Its the mind numbing ignorance of regressive left

4) So you continue to get your long johns in a twist, whilst people of sense wish to further study this and as seen. Those who want to study and support transgender the most are being shut down by those extreme lefty transgenders with a political agenda

Again the point here is to look further at why there is a rise

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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by Didge on Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:02 pm

Didge wrote:No one could accuse psychotherapist James Caspian of being a bigot or prejudiced against transgender people. His LGBT — that's lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender — credentials are impeccable.

For this slight, measured, gay man is not only a trustee of the transgender charity The Beaumont Trust, but he has dedicated more than a decade of his life to counselling hundreds of patients who wish to change their gender.

He publishes academic papers on the subject, contributes to books and addresses some of the finest minds in the health professions at conferences around the world — and has done extensive work training fellow psychotherapists on transgender awareness.

If there was ever an expert in this field, James, 58, is it. But lately James has had a gutful of the increasingly frustrating politics surrounding the trans lobby, after a study he wanted to carry out into transgender people was blocked by Bath Spa University for being 'politically incorrect'.

The nature of his research? To ask questions about the increasing numbers of people who were changing gender and subsequently regretting it. 'I'm not anti-trans. I've helped hundreds of people while they were transitioning, but when I started to do preliminary research I was taken aback by what I discovered,' he says.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4979498/James-Caspian-attacked-transgender-children-comments.html

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/sep/25/bath-spa-university-transgender-gender-reassignment-reversal-research

Its wierd how you blantantly ignored this Ben or are you continuing to bury your head in the sand on this?

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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:23 am

nicko wrote:Gender this, gender that,  There's only two, 1 male, 1 female !



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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:43 pm

Ben Cottonpickin' Reilly wrote:
gelico wrote:




James Caspian, a psychotherapist who specialises in working with transgender people, said: “What’s so incredible is that if anyone says anything critical about transgender [issues], this lobby come out and just attack the people who are saying it rather than taking on board what they are saying and discussing it.”



why is it so unfair to have concerns and to want to be cautious about giving life changing operations  ''willy nilly''

the request is for discussion and debate on the issue

How many people do you think decide just on a whim, just to be cool, to have their genitalia mutilated, their appearance altered and to go on hormones for the rest of their lives?

Most people wouldn't get a tattoo on a whim, let alone change their gender.

To say, "Now let's hold on" is basically to mock the vast majority of people who want gender reassignment, by pretending that they haven't really thought it through, and to question their decision simply because we can't imagine ever doing it.


If they want to pay for it themselves then it's up to them... however, if they expect tax payers and limited NHS funds to pay for it then I think it should be extremely difficult to have done... and only after years of assessments...!



Also... from the OP...

“My concern is that those who have a political agenda seem to want to sacrifice the welfare of children on the altar of political correctness and equalities whereas every child needs to be respected and supported in their own right. This is about individuals, not other people’s agendas.”

Politicians and academics have expressed concern at the way in which the “transgender lobby” are so quick to close down discussions.

James Caspian, a psychotherapist who specialises in working with transgender people, said: “What’s so incredible is that if anyone says anything critical about transgender [issues], this lobby come out and just attack the people who are saying it rather than taking on board what they are saying and discussing it.”

Frank Furedi, emeritus professor of sociology Kent University, added: “There is an assumption that there’s only one truth, one story you can tell and anyone who raises doubt or caution is immediately dismissed as a violator of human rights.

“It indicates that this is beyond discussion and all you can do is nod your head and shut up. In a democratic society that sets a very dangerous precedent.”



The left tend to try to shout down any differing opinion with abuse and accusations of being a nazi etc... as we have seen so often just on this site alone...!!!


'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.'  — George Orwell



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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:50 pm

Quote Ben...

"...Most people wouldn't get a tattoo on a whim..."


Loads do... and then want them removed at cost to tax payers on the NHS...!!!



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Re: Transgender activists accused of attempting to shut down debate

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:05 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Quote Ben...

"...Most people wouldn't get a tattoo on a whim..."


Loads do... and then want them removed at cost to tax payers on the NHS...!!!



So what? They're still a small percentage of the whole population YOU DICKHEAD !

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