Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

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Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Didge on Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:48 pm

The corridors have fallen silent at a school in Hornchurch after old fashioned rules were brought back in a bid to combat bad behaviour. Pupils at The Albany School have been banned from speaking as they move in 'orderly lines' between lessons.

The playground also falls silent at the end of break as children line up on the playground to head to class.

Teachers, who have to thank the students for obeying the rules, have said it has already sparked improvements. However, parents have disagreed, slamming the rule change and claiming the school has much more to do. In 2015 the school was graded as 'requiring improvements' by schools watchdog Ofsted, meaning changes must be implemented.

Months later, in September 2016, Val Masson who spent 11 years as a humanities teacher at the school in Havering, east London, before became headteacher.

In June this year, her new rules came into force.

The head decided to revive stricter methods of teaching and said that after introducing her silent rules, the number of pupils in isolation for poor behaviour halved in just a month.

She said: 'There are several reasons why we did it.

'We wanted a calm and academic atmosphere like a high-end institution.

'The second reason is that we believe in equality for all so even your meekest, most under confident child should be given the space to grow.

'And the third thing is that silence creates a very mutually respectful relationship between students and staff.

'It encourages a no raised voices environment. I don't agree with raising voices to children and usually staff only need to do that if there is a lot of noise.'

As part of the new regime at the school students from years seven, eight and nine are made to queue silently in the playground three times a day - before school, and after morning and lunch break.

Teachers then thank them for participating and for their hard work.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5969897/Pupils-forced-total-SILENCE-school-ban-talking-classes.html

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:53 pm



Shades of 1930s Germany...

Or Maoist China..

Suspect

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by nicko on Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:12 pm

Lay the law down when they are young, nothing wrong with that, perhaps they'll show more respect when they grow up !
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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by magica on Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:25 pm

I think this idea is good.

I remember having to line up in silence once the bell went, also in dinner queue, lessons etc.

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Vintage on Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:26 pm

How are they 'forced'?
I take it you are joking -Germany in1930'S Moaist China.
Try 1950/60/70's Britain or Hong Kong/India and a few others now and take a look at the results.
It doesn't hurt anyone to learn to shut up. listen and behave now and again, may even learn something useful.

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Didge on Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:32 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Shades of 1930s Germany...

Or Maoist China..

Suspect

I agree

What is this going to achieve?

Those who do well in life speak out and challenge.

Those who obey, bow down like sheep

Its not discipline, its nothing mofe than a poor form of control and is denying pupils the right to speak up

Imagine parenting this way?

Its totalitarianism

Its the very complete enemy of free speech

I mean what if you need to ask a valid question?

Or simple provide some kind words to someone feeling upset?

Is this now denied, based on a view that silence achieves something?

The reality is the school has taken drastic measures where countless other schools have never needed to

It shows the school has no self belief in their own teachers to be able to reason and thus now enforce


Last edited by Didge on Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Didge on Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:35 pm

Vintage wrote:How are they 'forced'?
I take it you are joking -Germany in1930'S Moaist China.
Try 1950/60/70's Britain or Hong Kong/India and a few others now and take a look at the results.
It doesn't hurt anyone to learn to shut up. listen and behave now and again, may even learn something useful.

You mean like how people are denied their free speech and jailed for doing so?

How about people that speak out on religion and jailed for blasphemy?

Be careful what you back

As its the same principle, trying to enforce people to be silent

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Vintage on Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:40 pm

Did anyone see the programme where a few dispruptive pupils from Britain were sent to India's most Famous boarding school for boys - The Eton of India (not that the boys are all from rich families).
What a contrast in the general behviour, the Indian boys still have great respect for parents and elders of course, they may not have enjoyed all the lessons but they want to get on so they sit and listen and do the 'homework' - prep. They are given the chance to explain if something goes wrong or they do something they shouldn't - if they get caught, they aren't angels of course, the British boys tended to talk back, walk away and 'couldn't be asked' and the language was a bit rough, they couldn't seem to understand this was about their future, although some people do get on after they leave school with or without an adequate education. A couple of them though did seem to realise and tried to do as well as they could and wanted to, with some success. It was quite a culture shock for them. The headmaster is British and all the staff Indian and they were all heavily invested in trying to get the best out of the boys according to their abilities.

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Raggamuffin on Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:41 pm

I thought this kind of thing was normal.

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by nicko on Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:44 pm

First to break the rule, 6 of the best ! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Didge on Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:49 pm

Vintage wrote:Did anyone see the programme where a few dispruptive pupils from Britain were sent to India's most Famous boarding school for boys - The Eton of India (not that the boys are all from rich families).
What a contrast in the general behviour, the Indian boys still have great respect for parents and elders of course, they may not have enjoyed all the lessons but they want to get on so they sit and listen and do the 'homework' - prep. They are given the chance to explain if something goes wrong or they do something they shouldn't - if they get caught, they aren't angels of course, the British boys tended to talk back, walk away and 'couldn't be asked' and the language was a bit rough, they couldn't seem to understand this was about their future, although some people do get on after they leave school with or without an adequate education. A couple of them though did seem to realise and tried to do as well as they could and wanted to, with some success. It was quite a culture shock for them. The headmaster is British and all the staff Indian and they were all heavily invested in trying to get the best out of the boys according to their abilities.

So you think the way to have respect is by the worst kind of lessons?

So why do countless other children have no need of such discipline?

You speak about unruly children, never asking about why they were in the first place. Which will always stem from the first 1 to 7 years of their life in how they are treated or neglected as the case may be

You never look at the cause and the effect, you think harshness is the key, to dealing within someone who has either been neglected or been spoilt. Those kind of upringings will always produce problematic children

Again the point here, is about the worst kind of lesson, that you cannot speak

To be denied free speech, is the worst kind of intolerance

Its not discipline, its nothing more than barbarism and censurship. Its simple trying to silence someone into submission and not teaching them how to reason anything. Which we see in countless parts of the world.
Totalitarian rules to have some sense of order.

Then you have no order what so ever. You have forced this onto people and never taught them a damn thing. They only know how to be controlled

That is not even something worthy of respect. As everyone should be taught to free minded in their views, even when people disagree with them. So to control their speech is not any form of teaching. Its a sure sign of a loss of a control that would then have someone enforce such drastic measures. It shows they cannot do what others do daily with such problems

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Didge on Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:23 pm

I am going to set a simple test for people on this and see what answers they give.

A child of 4 is demanding to their Mum/Father to have sweets bought for them when they go out, when you have said no and are going ballistic you said no

Do you:

a) Put them over your knee and slap their legs/bum?

b) Tell them to go to their room and not to come down until they have apologiszed

c) Tell them, they are never allowed to talk back to you and then apply A or B

d) Try to explain why their behaviour is poor to demand something they want. Where if they are not listening, help them learn negotiation skills, by not bowing down to them. But using reason, no matter how many times they continually kick off. They will always tire before you do and if you tire before they do, then you lack patience and that is all they will come to learn

A) Will make them resent you and they will have learnt to either become in fear of you or become hardened to the pain you inflict. To then constantly rebel against you

B) Will make them think you do not want to listen to them and are being as unreasonable as they are and that to do so and shout loud enough may get their way. They will not respect you, because they will believe you are not listening to them

C) Try to silence them with basic blackmail with either a fear of pain or solitary confinement?

D) This option, will in the end make them think about their actions and its all about staying the goal with this. Helping them understand why its wrong to demand. But learn the reason.

So what is better here?

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by gelico on Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:12 pm

Didge wrote:
Vintage wrote:How are they 'forced'?
I take it you are joking -Germany in1930'S Moaist China.
Try 1950/60/70's Britain or Hong Kong/India and a few others now and take a look at the results.
It doesn't hurt anyone to learn to shut up. listen and behave now and again, may even learn something useful.

You mean like how people are denied their free speech and jailed for doing so?

How about people that speak out on religion and jailed for blasphemy?

Be careful what you back

As its the same principle, trying to enforce people to be silent




you've got to be fucking kidding me


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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Didge on Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:14 pm

gelico wrote:
Didge wrote:

You mean like how people are denied their free speech and jailed for doing so?

How about people that speak out on religion and jailed for blasphemy?

Be careful what you back

As its the same principle, trying to enforce people to be silent




you've got to be fucking kidding me



No

Laughing

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Didge on Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:17 pm

Okay, no matter how much I hound people

Have I ever made people silent, by castigating anyone Gelico?

No and I never would think so

So why do you think I would?

Is that you giving me a compliment undeserved when I never have?

That is why you are wrong about

I may get passionate and annoyed, but am never going to try and silence people

I will at times badly use emotions, sometime use reason, but have you ever see me say to someone they are not allowed to reply and they must be silent?

Seriously?

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by gelico on Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:22 pm

Didge wrote:Okay, no matter how much I hound people

Have I ever made people silent, by castigating anyone Gelico?



err, yes, many many many times. I have lot count of the amount of threads you've killed where people have just given up because of your ''castigating''

In fact if I had a pound for every time that's happened I could probably buy Ben entry into the UK

God only knows what the rest of your post was about

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Didge on Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:25 pm

gelico wrote:
Didge wrote:Okay, no matter how much I hound people

Have I ever made people silent, by castigating anyone Gelico?



err, yes, many many many times.  I have lot count of the amount of threads you've killed where people have just given up because of your ''castigating''

In fact if I had a pound for every time that's happened I could probably buy Ben entry into the UK

God only knows what the rest of your post was about


Come on

That is subjective

Nobody ever kills a thread

Only people decide whether to respond or not

Are you really suggesting I have the power to control others posting?

I dont

Think about that Gelico

You are saying I can control people on debates?

Laughing

Or do they have some control themselves?

x

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by gelico on Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:45 pm

Didge wrote:
gelico wrote:


err, yes, many many many times.  I have lot count of the amount of threads you've killed where people have just given up because of your ''castigating''

In fact if I had a pound for every time that's happened I could probably buy Ben entry into the UK

God only knows what the rest of your post was about


Come on

That is subjective

Nobody ever kills a thread


I've seen it many times but ok, whatever you say.

with regard to the OP.

We had the same thing at school at least in primary school

It's just a lesson in diversity of behaviour is all

there is a right time for questioning and challenging (that's not banned)
there is a right time and place for fun and games (that's not banned)
there is a right time for running around like total loonies screaming your heads off (that's not banned)
and there is right time to be silent and respectful when asked.

they are also thanked, I notice, which is a great thing

it interferes with no ones free speech
it oppresses no one

it teaches good manners and orderly conduct

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Didge on Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:55 pm

gelico wrote:
Didge wrote:


Come on

That is subjective

Nobody ever kills a thread


I've seen it many times but ok, whatever you say.

with regard to the OP.

We had the same thing at school at least in primary school

It's just a lesson in diversity of behaviour is all

there is a right time for questioning and challenging (that's not banned)
there is a right time and place for fun and games (that's not banned)
there is a right time for running around like total loonies screaming your heads off (that's not banned)
and there is  right time to be silent and respectful when asked.

they are also thanked, I notice, which is a great thing

it interferes with no ones free speech
it oppresses no one

it teaches good manners and orderly conduct

How is it a good lesson?

You claim to silence people is good manners?

Something arbitrary and subjective like any belief

So based on a right time and place, what has that got to do with silencing people and you failing to say how that is a good or bad thing?

So to say there is a right time on your views is based on what exactly?

Your view?

My view?

Who's view?

Where is the method of standard here?

The reality is, there is none

If you silence people, based on a view it will make them learn. Tell me what wil they learn when they are face with discipline, if they breach such a rule?

How is that any different from the rules faced by people in Venezuela through a system that denies free speech?

They are faced with the same threats, but the consequences are far worse

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by gelico on Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:01 pm

Didge wrote:
gelico wrote:

I've seen it many times but ok, whatever you say.

with regard to the OP.

We had the same thing at school at least in primary school

It's just a lesson in diversity of behaviour is all

there is a right time for questioning and challenging (that's not banned)
there is a right time and place for fun and games (that's not banned)
there is a right time for running around like total loonies screaming your heads off (that's not banned)
and there is  right time to be silent and respectful when asked.

they are also thanked, I notice, which is a great thing

it interferes with no ones free speech
it oppresses no one

it teaches good manners and orderly conduct

How is it a good lesson?

You claim to silence people is good manners?

Something arbitrary and subjective like any belief

So based on a right time and place, what has that got to do with silencing people and you failing to say how that is a good or bad thing?

So to say there is a right time on your views is based on what exactly?

Your view?

My view?

Who's view?

Where is the method of standard here?

The reality is, there is none

If you silence people, based on a view it will make them learn. Tell me what wil they learn when they are face with discipline, if they breach such a rule?

How is that any different from the rules faced by people in Venuzula?

They are faced with the same threats

there is a right time for questioning and challenging (that's not banned)
there is a right time and place for fun and games (that's not banned)
there is a right time for running around like total loonies screaming your heads off (that's not banned)
and there is right time to be silent and respectful when asked.

didge, how is the above wrong? what's wrong with a few rules and discipline?

a lot of problems with out of control teenagers (and older) is that there has been a lack of order and rules and discipline. it leaves them with a lack of self control, a lack of empathy or courtesy to others and a sense of entitlement (i can do what i like and fuck you) do you think that constant chaos and no quiet time, and the kids and screech and shout as much as they want to, when they want to is conducive to good education and being able to focus.

as said, no one is being oppressed. no one is denied speech or fun or anything else.

certainly no one is being denied their food, or basic human rights,,,,venezuela? oh behave now, you're going too far

lol!

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Didge on Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:12 pm

gelico wrote:
Didge wrote:

How is it a good lesson?

You claim to silence people is good manners?

Something arbitrary and subjective like any belief

So based on a right time and place, what has that got to do with silencing people and you failing to say how that is a good or bad thing?

So to say there is a right time on your views is based on what exactly?

Your view?

My view?

Who's view?

Where is the method of standard here?

The reality is, there is none

If you silence people, based on a view it will make them learn. Tell me what wil they learn when they are face with discipline, if they breach such a rule?

How is that any different from the rules faced by people in Venuzula?

They are faced with the same threats

there is a right time for questioning and challenging (that's not banned)
there is a right time and place for fun and games (that's not banned)
there is a right time for running around like total loonies screaming your heads off (that's not banned)
and there is  right time to be silent and respectful when asked.

didge, how is the above wrong?  what's wrong with a few rules and discipline?

a lot of problems with out of control teenagers (and older) is that there has been a lack of order and rules and discipline. it leaves them with a lack of self control, a lack of empathy or courtesy to others and a sense of entitlement (i can do what i like and fuck you)  do you think that constant chaos and no quiet time, and the kids and screech and shout as much as they want to, when they want to is conducive to good education and being able to focus.

as said, no one is being oppressed.  no one is denied speech or fun or anything else.

certainly no one is being denied their food, or basic human rights,,,,venezuela?  oh behave now, you're going too far

lol!


Well gelico, the reality is, the abobe are not rules

You say there is a right time and never say what that right time is

You say as long as its not banned

Well which country are we basing this on?

So I am really going to have to rubbish your views here, as it is poor.

As there is absolutely no right or wrong time for questioning anything. If you think there is, then you allow a cluse for anything to have a form of protection from criticism. Just as every Totalitarian system has done in history

How is there a right time and place for fun?

Who is the subjective judge to say what is fun?

Seriously?

Is there a right time to run around being crazy?

Which month and day?

Seriously?

How about allowing people to be cracy and be themselves doing so when it does not effect others?

If you think there is a right time to be silent. Then you are basically a slave to the views of others

Was it respectful to be silent to slavery?

Was it rightful and respectful be silent to racism?

Was it rightful and respectful be silent to sexism?

Was it rightful and respectful be silent to homophobia?

You tell em?

Would I living in the 1930's be right to be silent to nazism?

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by veya_victaous on Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:04 pm

is this a joke confused confused confused confused confused

I can't believe the UK is so insane. Suspect
it sounds like it would have to be a joke
I can't imagine anyone accepting such authoritarianism and calling themselves free 
or letting their children get subjected to it, child abuse in my opinion

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:11 pm

veya_victaous wrote:is this a joke confused confused confused confused confused

I can't believe the UK is so insane. Suspect
it sounds like it would have to be a joke
I can't imagine anyone accepting such authoritarianism and calling themselves free 
or letting their children get subjected to it, child abuse in my opinion

I think it's great. The kids can shut up for a few minutes. Besides, they're old enough to be able to control themselves.

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Didge on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:13 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:is this a joke confused confused confused confused confused

I can't believe the UK is so insane. Suspect
it sounds like it would have to be a joke
I can't imagine anyone accepting such authoritarianism and calling themselves free 
or letting their children get subjected to it, child abuse in my opinion

I think it's great. The kids can shut up for a few minutes. Besides, they're old enough to be able to control themselves.


So you have no belief in reason then and enforced actions?

How are they going to learn anythinmg from this?

What is wrong with a child asking questions?


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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:14 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I think it's great. The kids can shut up for a few minutes. Besides, they're old enough to be able to control themselves.


So you have no belief in reason then and enforced?

What is wrong with a child asking questions?

Eh?

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Didge on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:15 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:


So you have no belief in reason then and enforced?

What is wrong with a child asking questions?

Eh?


Simple question.


Do you believe kids should shut up or not?

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:15 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Eh?


Simple question.


Do you believe kids should shut up or not?

Yes. I just said so.

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Didge on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:17 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:


Simple question.


Do you believe kids should shut up or not?

Yes. I just said so.


So are you against them asking questions within this enforeced silence?

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:22 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes. I just said so.


So are you against them asking questions within this enforeced silence?

Yes.

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Didge on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:26 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:


So are you against them asking questions within this enforeced silence?

Yes.



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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:28 pm

That was a great episode!

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

Post by Didge on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:30 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:That was a great episode!


Laughing

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Re: Pupils are forced into total SILENCE as school becomes one of the first in the UK to ban talking between classes

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