Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

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Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Original Quill on Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:55 pm

"... a chaotic circumstance of the government’s own making" is what a Federal District Judge characterizes the situation as.  The message seems to be, if the order cannot be met, that is proof-positive that the US government is a failure at governance.

People are being treated same as property, Judge says.  Orders no more family separations.  Parents cannot be detained or deported without their children  Children under 5-years must be reunited with in 14-days.

Los Angeles Times reports"

Los Angeles Times wrote:California federal judge orders separated children reunited with parents within 30 days


By ALENE TCHEKMEDYIAN and KRISTINA DAVIS
JUN 27, 2018

A federal judge in San Diego issued a preliminary injunction Tuesday at the request of the American Civil Liberties Union that calls for all children affected by the Trump administration’s “zero-tolerance” immigration policy to be reunited with their parents within 30 days.

In a strongly worded opinion, U.S. District Judge Dana Sabraw wrote “the facts set forth before the court portray reactive governance — responses to address a chaotic circumstance of the government’s own making. They belie measured and ordered governance, which is central to the concept of due process enshrined in our Constitution.”

Under the order, children younger than 5 years old must be reunited with their parents within 14 days, while older children must be reunited with their parents within 30 days. Within 10 days, federal authorities must allow parents to call their children if they're not already in contact with them.

“The unfortunate reality is that under the present system migrant children are not accounted for with the same efficiency and accuracy as property. Certainly, that cannot satisfy the requirements of due process,” Sabraw wrote.

The order also says parents can’t be detained or deported without their children, unless they are unfit or pose a danger.

“This is a complete victory for these families and children who have been suffering for months,” said Lee Gelernt, an attorney with the ACLU.​​​​​ “Many of these parents and children thought they might never see each other again. They have literally been living through a nightmare and the court has now ended their trauma.”

The ruling comes after Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon last week responded to mounting public pressure by signing an executive order that halted the practice of separating children from parents who had been detained at the U.S.-Mexico border for illegal entry.

The shift prompted confusion as to how subsequent family arrests at the border will be handled and raised questions about the government’s plans for reunification.

Attorneys for the government argued in a filing Tuesday morning that the executive order already addresses the family separation concerns outlined in the ACLU lawsuit, and that federal agencies are working on reunification of the 2,000 or so families that remain apart.

“This Court should give the agencies time to take action, rather than issuing an injunctive order,” the government argued in the filing. “A court imposed process is likely to slow the reunification process and cause confusion and conflicting obligations, rather than speed the process of reunifying families in a safe and efficient manner.”

Lawyers with the Department of Justice argued that a court injunction would unnecessarily restrict the ability of immigration authorities “to carry out its immigration enforcement mission and address smuggling concerns,” and that the government must follow standards that protect children from parents who would pose a risk to the child’s welfare or from smugglers.

Randi Weingarten is turned away after trying to deliver a teddy bear and other items for children to federal agents at the port-of-entry Fabens, Texas, on Tuesday.
Randi Weingarten is turned away after trying to deliver a teddy bear and other items for children to federal agents at the port-of-entry Fabens, Texas, on Tuesday. (Matt York / Associated Press)

But the ACLU argued that the government has “no meaningful plan” for swiftly ensuring that family reunifications occur and pointed out that the executive order can be rescinded at any time.

“Thus, thousands of families remain separated, and many parents have no idea where their children are or how to find them,” Gelernt wrote in a filing. “With each added day of separation, the terrible trauma inflicted by the government on both parents and children continues to mount. Many of the children are babies and toddlers who every night are crying themselves to sleep wondering if they will ever see their parents again.”

The process for parents to find where their separated children are located has also been challenging, Gelernt argued. A hotline number parents can call regularly puts callers on hold for 30-minute periods, a stretch that is “infeasible for detained parents.” Lately, callers have been met with a busy signal.

The ACLU made the injunction request as part of its class-action lawsuit filed on behalf of two women who were separated from their children.

One woman, a citizen of the Democratic Republic of Congo, fled religious persecution and sought asylum legally at the San Ysidro Port of Entry with her 6-year-old daughter, the ACLU said. The two were initially detained together, but days later, the daughter was “forcibly separated” from her mother, while screaming and crying.

While the woman was placed in immigration custody and scheduled for expedited removal, her daughter was sent to a facility in Chicago. They were reunited after nearly five months of separation, according to the judge’s order.

The second woman, a citizen of Brazil, crossed the border illegally with her 14-year-old son. She was charged with entering the country illegally and her son was taken to a facility in Chicago. They were separated for eight months.

Sabraw earlier this month had decided the lawsuit against the government’s family separation practice could move forward, calling the practice “brutal, offensive” and contrary to “traditional notions of fair play and decency.”

LA Times staff writer Paloma Esquivel contributed to this report.


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Judge's demand that children be reunited with migrant parents sets stage for new immigration showdown

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:57 pm

A Victory for the Decent People rejecting the Nazi like policies of Trump cheers cheers cheers cheers

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:16 pm

The administration is doing nothing, setting up the claim that if they defy a federal judge's order, they can then claim impossibility of performance.

The wheels are spinning.  Trump, on Monday, will appoint Justice Kennedy's replacement, making the Court 5 - 4 conservative.  This case is setting a new precedent: Just claim impossibility, and you can ignore a court order.

Watch, as this becomes a new front in litigation:  Hey judge...we tried, but it was just too difficult.  (So, sue us.)  Razz

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Didge on Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:39 pm

I was led to believe that the US is corrupt?

How is it then that a Federal judge can rightly order and place a timeframe to reunite children with their parents?

scratch

Is that not a glowing example of how the US system can and does work against poor unlawful policies?

It already happened under Obama, when he held children of illegal immigrant parents in adult detention centers. They ruled that also was unlawful.

Its astounding how the radical left cannot even see that.

What I still fail to understand here is why on one criminal act are people advocating that children remain with their parents?

Normally on just about any other crime, that sees the suspected criminal locked up. They are rightly placed in the care of family members of the care system. So why are people jumping only up in arms over this and not other crimes, that involve parents?

Seriously?

Should not the standard apply universally?

Again, no kid should be seperated from their parents for a crime the parents committed. Unless they are placed in the care of a family memeber. Until a verdict has been reached. As the children are innocent. The parent/parents are possible suspects to a crime, are they not?

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Original Quill on Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:13 am

Didge wrote:I was led to believe that the US is corrupt?

How is it then that a Federal judge can rightly order and place a timeframe to reunite children with their parents?

Because, simply put, only the administration and the deplorable Republicans are corrupt.  There are many decent Americans, especially on the west coast and the northeast.

Case in point: this was a US District Court in San Diego, California.  It will survive scrutiny by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, in San Francisco, but Trump is packing the Supreme Court.

Hopefully, impeachment hearings will be well on the way by then.

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Didge on Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:57 am

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:I was led to believe that the US is corrupt?

How is it then that a Federal judge can rightly order and place a timeframe to reunite children with their parents?

Because, simply put, only the administration and the deplorable Republicans are corrupt.  There are many decent Americans, especially on the west coast and the northeast.

Case in point: this was a US District Court in San Diego, California.  It will survive scrutiny by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, in San Francisco, but Trump is packing the Supreme Court.

Hopefully, impeachment hearings will be well on the way by then.


Again how is it corrupt, where a Federal judge can and does order this through US law?

You still are not grasping the point are you?

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:14 pm

Laughing

Poor old Doddery Didge...

All at sea, again..

But then, unlike the USA (and Australia, NZ, Canada, et al..) poor ol' mother Britain still doesn't have separation of courts and government (we need only look to their House of Paedo's, err.. 'Lords'..).

Nor "separation of Church and State" --  the Church of England is the official religion of the UK, the Queen or King the titular head of the C-of-E, and some of their Bishops are guaranteed a minimum number of seats in the House of Paedo's.

Dodger seemingly doesn't want to understand that some entities can still be corrupt  without the whole system being equally corrupted.

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Didge on Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:24 pm

Except the wetwipe has failed to show and back the claim, this is corrupt

Oh dear

It seems the wetwipe has again ignored all points and wants to as usual spout his crap

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Original Quill on Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:22 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Because, simply put, only the administration and the deplorable Republicans are corrupt.  There are many decent Americans, especially on the west coast and the northeast.

Case in point: this was a US District Court in San Diego, California.  It will survive scrutiny by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, in San Francisco, but Trump is packing the Supreme Court.

Hopefully, impeachment hearings will be well on the way by then.


Again how is it corrupt, where a Federal judge can and does order this through US law?

You still are not grasping the point are you?

No, you are deliberately avoiding the distinction.  A little lesson in political science may be appropriate here.

The Executive, or administrative, branch of a government is the active organ of government.  The legislature determines the laws and direction, and the Courts come back around and check things to see if they are going along fine.  But the Executive branch is the one that acts, and it has the military, the police, and all the branches, to actuate government.

Therefore, if the Executive branch is sour, it cannot but have a bad purpose in all acts of the government.  Fortunately, we have the legislature to direct, but in this case the legislature is almost all Republicans, and so they are a bunch of pussies in the face of Trump.

The last recourse is the Judicial branch, which has an even stronger power: the power to say no to the impetuous child, so to speak.  This is what has happened here, with the parent slapping the hand of the child.

America, which invented modern democratic, self-restrained government, calls this checks and balances.  Thus, when we speak of America going sour, we think of the active branch of America--the Executive branch--as having gone off course.  When the Judicial branch slaps America's hands, is the parent disciplining the child.  Again, checks and balances.

I'm surprised at how little you Europeans know about America's founding.  This is 3rd-grade stuff in America.  In another thread about Thomas Jefferson (in the History, Archaeology and Anthropology section), you manifest the average European's ignorance as to theories of governance, so important a topic at the founding.  Jefferson himself spoke of it in scientific terms: "an experiment on the practicability of republic government."  Curtis, Recollections and Private Memoirs of George Washington (1861).  You ought to study up on it if you are going to involve yourself in American political ideas, history or sociology...and not embarrass yourself.

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Didge on Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:35 pm

So again Quill comes out with yet more drivel and offers nothing to substanciate his claim on the legal system being corrupt or even the US Political system being corrupt

You see Quill you are full of shit and now I am going to embarress your further

You claim Republicans are the only ones corrupt, this suggesting a view to discriminate against people based on beliefs. You cannot make it up, how again its you like you claim Trump is, being prejudiced and even wors. Adovating through a falsehood, that only Republicans are corrupt.

I mean by your view, and claim on Trump, you would be as bad and prejudice, to want to discriminate and not allow people to be judges based on their beliefs.

Would you also hold this view if a Muslim, was a candidate to be a Supreme Judge and held the view Homosexuality was a sin? Would you deny them based on their beliefs. Or actually understand that people actually apply the law of the US.

Now since the 1867 statute enacted in regards to defrauding the United States and then further Statutes on Corruption. There has been 47 Federal officals convicted for corruption.

Now heres the real kicker for you

Wait for it.



Wait for it



Wait for it


26 have been Democrats and 19 have been republicans and 2 N/A

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_officials_convicted_of_corruption_offenses

lol!

Oh dear.........

Out of the 47, only one was a Judge and one was a District Judge, both Republicans

Hardly evidence over 151 years for corruption with Federal officials and shows the system works, Just like any country a few individuals that try to fraud the system

You are like how you claim your Nemsis Trump is. Prejudiced, a liar and want to deny people office based on beliefs

You cannot make it up what a lying prejudiced bigot you are

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Original Quill on Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:27 am

Didge wrote:So again Quill comes out with yet more drivel and offers nothing to substanciate his claim on the legal system being corrupt or even the US Political system being corrupt

That's it? That's your reasoning? You use adjectives and adverbs as responses to facts and logic...and that's your answer? "Drivel"? "Twisting meanings"? Lies and distortions...that's how you debate?

Didge, calling us names is like water off a duck's back. But you're a living, breathing model of how Hitler did it. You are Goebbels incarnate. Absolutely no allegiance to factuality or verity, just lies, distortions and rape of reason. One hopes your mother didn't have any other children. Mad

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Didge on Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:01 am

Oh dear, you claimed only Republicans were corrupt

It turns out more Democrats have been

You again lied Quill

Again its you being as prejudiced as you claim Trump is

I think the irony is hilarious

As I have said for ages, the radicla left is mindnumbingly stuipid and as bad as the Far right

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Original Quill on Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:09 am

Do I detect a similarity between you and the Internet Research Agency, in St. Petersburg?  Constant diversion?  Twisting?  Lying?  Repeated pattern of mimicking your accusers and their accusations? Or conversely, accusing them of what you plan for yourself?

Or are you just a victim of Putin Kompromat?  Did management check you out, St. Pete?


Last edited by Original Quill on Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:11 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by eddie on Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:10 am

I think it may be fair and true to say, there are corrupt people on both sides of a fence.
However!
The right seem far more “ignorant” than the left....on most occasions.

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Didge on Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:21 am

Original Quill wrote:Do I detect a similarity between you and the Internet Research Agency, in St. Petersburg?  Constant diversion?  Twisting?  Lying?  Repeated pattern of mimicking your accusers and their accusations?  Or conversely, accusing them of what you plan for yourself?

Or are you just a victim of Putin Kompromat?  Did management check you out, St. Pete?

No victim here, when it was you again making the false claims

Like Eddie says, you find corrupt people on both sides of the political spectrum

What is telling is that you claimed the system and judges were corrupt.

Its not only insulting to the actual integrity of many good judges, who actually apply the law in the US, but you are doing so from a position of hate, not reason

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Original Quill on Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:28 am

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Do I detect a similarity between you and the Internet Research Agency, in St. Petersburg?  Constant diversion?  Twisting?  Lying?  Repeated pattern of mimicking your accusers and their accusations?  Or conversely, accusing them of what you plan for yourself?

Or are you just a victim of Putin Kompromat?  Did management check you out, St. Pete?

No victim here, when it was you again making the false claims

Like Eddie says, you find corrupt people on both sides of the political spectrum

What is telling is that you claimed the system and judges were corrupt.

Its not only insulting to the actual integrity of many good judges, who actually apply the law in the US, but you are doing so from a position of hate, not reason

The judges are all right. It's you I worry about.

Like, Trump was complaining about "rigged" elections, and then come to find out the election was rigged in his favor by the IRA! A remarkable similarity to to the gag: I'm rubber and your glue, everything you say bounces off me and... Coincidence? I don't believe in coincidences.

I'm applauding the judges for siding with the kids of separated families, and now you claim I'm saying "the system and judges were corrupt." It's like we're playing I'm rubber and your glue, everything you say bounces off me and... Get the picture? I don't believe in coincidences.

The IRA lost Bandit when he resigned NF...abruptly, after I fingered him and renamed him "Russ". Now you start playing the same game. I don't believe in coincidences.

Identical m.o., and the same used by the IRA in St. Petersburg. They needed a replacement player in the field...is that you?

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Didge on Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:55 am

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

No victim here, when it was you again making the false claims

Like Eddie says, you find corrupt people on both sides of the political spectrum

What is telling is that you claimed the system and judges were corrupt.

Its not only insulting to the actual integrity of many good judges, who actually apply the law in the US, but you are doing so from a position of hate, not reason

The judges are all right.  It's you I worry about.

Like, Trump was complaining about "rigged" elections, and then come to find out the election was rigged in his favor by the IRA!  A remarkable similarity to to the gag: I'm rubber and your glue, everything you say bounces off me and...  Coincidence?  I don't believe in coincidences.

I'm applauding the judges for siding with the kids of separated families, and now you claim I'm saying "the system and judges were corrupt."  It's like we're playing I'm rubber and your glue, everything you say bounces off me and...  Get the picture?  I don't believe in coincidences.

The IRA lost Bandit when he resigned NF...abruptly, after I fingered him and renamed him "Russ".  Now you start playing the same game.  I don't believe in coincidences.

Identical m.o., and the same used by the IRA in St. Petersburg.  They needed a replacement player in the field...is that you?


So you have gone from claiming Republicans are corrupt and by extension judges, to now back tracking on this, saying Judges are alright

WTF??

Its very kind of you to worry about me

My point again is, that people are very hypocritical on the issue of the seperation of children, with suspected criminal parents.

To me, it shows how people use something to make a it political. As again many children are seperated from their parents when they are suspected or convicted of a crime. Hence my view, was to then state, what is the best thing to do for the children in this situation. To me, it is better to place them into the care of another family member or deport them all back to their country of origin or allow an open border policy (the later being suicidal for the US)

I mean like I say, the Supreme court ruled against Obama, when he kept children of illegal immigrants in family detention centres with their parents. As again the children are innocent. So both Trump and Obama had poor policies on this

So I appluad the judges here, as I did before under Obama. Which sadly does not resolve the issue here

Its like I said, either the US opens its borders to anyone, or it looks at a far better policy in the safe guarding of children of illegal immigrants. To me, they should always be placed in the care of other family members, until the court case has been resolved. Or the US could simple not detain this suspected illegal immigrants, but send them and their families staight back to their country of origin. I mean they are not refugees, because they would have declared assylum at the border and be protected by International law.

So the reality here and I stress again, you are looking at this from a view point to political score points. Not any actual reason to safeguard the children of illegal immigrants. 

I though look for solutions to this actual issue, to ensure no child of illegal immigrants is detained or seperated.

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Original Quill on Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:00 pm

Didge wrote:I though look for solutions to this actual issue, to ensure no child of illegal immigrants is detained or seperated.

No you don't.  This is a ploy.  You have moved on thru a position of lies, distortions, and a unique pattern of 'mirror-image' argument that draws attention to itself.  You anticipate, and then spew back, performing a kind of disputatious judo move.

This is identical to the tactic of "psychographics", employed by the Russians in the 2016 election/Facebook ploy.  Invented and used by Dr. Aleksandr Kogan, associate professor at St. Petersburg University, and his firm, Global Science Research, using grants from the Russian government to research “stress, health and psychological wellbineg in social networks”, the rhetorical end of this maneuver is to manage and direct attitudes in interactive politics.  Trump uses it to control his base.

Truth doesn’t matter, position does.  You anticipate the position of the interlocutor, and redirect him until he has changed his position--or, your characterization of it has--and you then enjoy the benefit of his position and logic.  Didge, people have already begun to recognize that you are lying and manipulating positions in arguments.  You've been busted.  Lol.

The idea is to “use…private and personal information to create sophisticated psychological and political profiles”, then incorporate them into arguments that manipulate opinions.  It’s called behavioural microtargeting…as applied to information warfare.

One Cambridge Analytica insider, a Canadian, says:

Christopher Wylie wrote:I think it’s worse than bullying, because people don’t necessarily know it’s being done to them.  At least bullying respects the agency of people because they know.  So it’s worse, because if you do not respect the agency of people, anything that you’re doing after that point is not conducive to democracy.

Of course, advertisers have known this for decades.  People don’t care about advertisements.  But when the same tactics are turned to basic beliefs, such as politics, they care that their agency is being manipulated.

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Didge on Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:25 pm

Hilarious

Did you actually address a single point I made to you Quill?

No

Again like other idiots on here and when shown to be wrong, you come out with even more dumb waffle

I dont know why I show any of you respect here, because the reality is, you are as thick as shit and a poor liar

The reality is this

You lied and were prejudiced towards people based on Beliefs.

Just as Trump has been towwards people from a certain nation

That makes you complicitly the same and as hateful

Do you not understand how you are as hateful as you claim him to be?

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by Original Quill on Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:00 pm

Didge wrote:Did you actually address a single point I made to you Quill?

No

What point?  I'm curious.

Didge wrote:Again like other idiots on here and when shown to be wrong, you come out with even more dumb waffle

Ah, but you’ve never shown me to be wrong. You’ve merely twisted my meaning.

Didge wrote:I dont know why I show any of you respect here, because the reality is, you are as thick as shit and a poor liar

You’ve got to respect superior truth and logic, that’s why.

Didge wrote:The reality is this

You lied and were prejudiced towards people based on Beliefs.

You are the one who lies. The only problem I have is, I’m torn between believing you are manipulative, or just plain stupid. There is is a regularity about your lies that shows you are manipulative...or, are being led by the nose.

Didge wrote:Just as Trump has been towwards people from a certain nation

What nation? Trump simply divides the world up into ‘shitholes’ and ‘Norway’. Remember? You don’t get it, do you? Trump is racist, and he is nationalist only in the sense that he favors whites.

Didge wrote:That makes you complicitly the same and as hateful

Hmmm….no complicity with Trump. You are stupid to try and claim that before this crowd. Everyone knows that.

And hateful? Do you mean like with you and Muslims?

Didge wrote:Do you not understand how you are as hateful as you claim him to be?

So, this is where you are twisting the thesis, is it not? You can neither win by truth, nor logic, so you simply lie about what one is saying. You change positions, and fulfill your Russian teacher's, Dr Aleksandr Kogan's, theory. Remember how it goes?--

Original Quill wrote:Truth doesn’t matter, position does. You anticipate the position of the interlocutor, and redirect him until he has changed his position--or, your characterization of it has--and you then enjoy the benefit of his position and logic.

I have to laugh…busted once again, aren’t you?

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Re: Federal judge orders reuniting families: feds have 20 days, 14-days if children under 5-years.

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:58 am


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