Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

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Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Syl on Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:50 pm

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/boy-8-taken-mum-social-12698920


"A social worker has come under fire from a High Court judge after she took a young boy away from its mother, as she claimed she wasn't meeting his emotional needs.
The mother was accused of "not taken him out for an ice cream" and not getting his hair to be cut "in the way that he liked" in a 44-page document written by the social worker.

But today a judge ruled the mother and son can be reunited.
The local authority's evidence in opposition to the mother's application was contained in an extremely long, 44-page, witness statement made by the social worker," said the judge, who is based in the Family Division of the High Court in London.
"This witness statement was very long on rhetoric and generalised criticism but very short indeed on any concrete examples of where and how the mother's parenting had been deficient.
"Indeed, it was very hard to pin down within the swathes of text what exactly was being said against the mother."
He said the social worker had been asked to "identify her best example" of the mother "failing" to meet the boy's "emotional needs".
"Her response was that until prompted by the local authority mother had not spent sufficient one-to-one time with (the boy) and had failed on one occasion to take him out for an ice cream," said the judge.
"This struck me as utterly insubstantial criticism."

He added: "A further criticism in this vein was that the mother had failed to arrange for hair to be cut in the way that he liked.
"Again, this is obviously inconsequential."


Social workers....don't you love em? Rolling Eyes

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Original Quill on Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:08 pm

At least they've gotta reason. In this country they remove them because they are Hispanic. They are coming to seek asylum from Central American countries, dictators and abusive husbands.

Incidentally, the authorities have reportedly lost about 1,500 children. The baby-snatchers at ICE say it's not their responsibility to look after them once they hand them off to another agency.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Syl on Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:48 pm

In the US they remove a child from its home and parents because of it's race...seriously?

And in GB no one has any reason to remove a child from its mother because she doesn't give in to his whims.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Original Quill on Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:27 pm

Syl wrote:In the US they remove a child from its home and parents because of it's race...seriously?

And in GB no one has any reason to remove a child from its mother because she doesn't give in to his whims.

In the US it doesn't have to do with mother and child. The Republican administration does not want any more Hispanics in the country because they are already the 2nd largest population and growing, and they always vote for the Democrats.

To punish them, the Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) remove and send their children to Ohio or West Virginia, while holding their mothers in Texas. They are put up for placement in foster homes. As mentioned, they have lost some 1,500 children.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Syl on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:35 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:In the US they remove a child from its home and parents because of it's race...seriously?

And in GB no one has any reason to remove a child from its mother because she doesn't give in to his whims.

In the US it doesn't have to do with mother and child.  The Republican administration does not want any more Hispanics in the country because they are already the 2nd largest population and growing, and they always vote for the Democrats.

To punish them, the Immigration & Customs  Enforcement (ICE) remove and send their children to Ohio or West Virginia, while holding their mothers in Texas.  They are put up for placement in foster homes.  As mentioned, they have lost some 1,500 children.

That is totally inhumane. No wonder you often see racism where none is intended....or you look at it very differently to how others may see it.

We are all a product of what we live through.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:22 pm

2nd largest population...?


But only 1500 cases...?


Erm... that would strongly suggest that Quill is talking shite yet again... and there were other serious child welfare/safety reasons for the children to be taken into care...!!!


Quill is just posting bullshit...!!!



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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Syl on Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:16 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:2nd largest population...?


But only 1500 cases...?


Erm... that would strongly suggest that Quill is talking shite yet again... and there were other serious child welfare/safety reasons for the children to be taken into care...!!!


Quill is just posting bullshit...!!!



If its your own child that's taken away the figures don't matter.....every case would be heart breaking for both parents and child.

How do you know there were other reasons?....what do you think about the case in Britain highlighted in the OP?
Social workers can sometimes get it so wrong.


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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Original Quill on Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:59 pm

I never lie, tommy.  I don't have time.  Here you go:

Snopes wrote:Did the U.S. Government Lose Track of 1,475 Migrant Children?

An official from Health and Human Services reported to a Senate subcommittee that 1,475 unaccompanied migrant children are unaccounted for.

The U.S. government lost track of some 1,475 immigrant children who were placed in sponsor homes.

On 26 April 2018, the New York Times and the Associated Press both reported that the U.S. government had lost track of nearly 1,500 migrant children it had placed into the homes of caregivers. The alarming nature of the headlines prompted many readers to question the veracity of the reports, but they are apparently true.

The Times and AP reports were based on statements made by Steven Wagner, acting assistant secretary of Administration for Children and Families for the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) on 26 April 2018 at a Senate Homeland Security subcommittee oversight hearing, statements which can be viewed in full here. According to that transcript, Wagner told senators:

From October to December 2017, ORR [Office of Refugee Resettlement] attempted to reach 7,635 UAC [unaccompanied alien children] and their sponsors. Of this number, ORR reached and received agreement to participate in the safety and well-being call from approximately 86 percent of sponsors. From these calls, ORR learned that 6,075 UAC remained with their sponsors. Twenty-eight UAC had run away, five had been removed from the United States, and 52 had relocated to live with a non-sponsor. ORR was unable to determine with certainty the whereabouts of 1,475 UAC.

We note that this passage means that ORR made some effort to ascertain the status of children placed with sponsors and were unable to determine where some 1,475 of those children were, because those sponsors were unreachable by telephone or didn’t respond. This doesn’t mean those children are “missing” in the sense of being outside the home, control, or care of their guardians, but rather that the ORR couldn’t verify their exact whereabouts at the moment.

We reached out to HHS and were told by a spokesman that when children cross into the U.S. alone, their custody is transferred from the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees immigration enforcement, to HHS’s Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR). Children are then released to a sponsor in the U.S. who is selected and approved by ORR. These sponsors undergo background checks, and although the majority of such sponsors (85%) are parents or immediate family members, HHS told us, the remainder are typically more distant relatives or non-relatives whom the children had some previous relationship with:

When a UAC is placed with a sponsor, he or she ceases to be in the custody of the U.S. government and all HHS-provided subsistence — food, shelter, clothing, healthcare and education — ends at that point and the child becomes the responsibility of his or her parent, guardian or sponsor.

Responses to questions about the whereabouts of children from whom the HHS had distanced themselves once those children were placed with sponsors drew backlash from lawmakers at the 26 April oversight hearing.

Senator Heidi Heitkamp, a Democrat from North Dakota, lambasted Wagner for failing to keep tabs on the unaccompanied children:

You are the worst foster parents in the world. You don’t even know where they are. And we’re failing. I don’t think there’s any doubt about it. And when we fail for kids, it makes me angry. Where are these kids? Why don’t we know where they are, and how come after months of investigation by this committee, we don’t seem to be getting any better answers, Mr. Wagner?

The outcry over the fact that the federal government had lost track of hundreds of vulnerable children was compounded by outrage over news that immigration authorities were making good on new Trump administration directives to prosecute parents caught making unauthorized border crossings with their children, and in so doing separate the kids from their parents. The New York Times noted in April 2018 that 700 children, over 100 of them younger than four years old, had been taken from their parents at the border since October 2017.

Social media users widely shared an Arizona Daily Star report describing the wrenching scene at a court hearing in which a distraught mother who had been separated from her sons, aged 8 and 11 years, was given no information on when they might be reunited:

Alma Jacinto covered her eyes with her hands as tears streamed down her cheeks.

The 36-year-old from Guatemala was led out of the federal courtroom without an answer to the question that brought her to tears: When would she see her boys again?

Jacinto wore a yellow bracelet on her left wrist, which defense lawyers said identifies parents who are arrested with their children and prosecuted in Operation Streamline, a fast-track program for illegal border crossers.

Moments earlier, her public defender asked the magistrate judge when Jacinto would be reunited with her sons, ages 8 and 11. There was no clear answer for Jacinto, who was sentenced to time served on an illegal-entry charge after crossing the border with her sons near Lukeville on May 14.

Senator Heitkamp slammed both HHS and the new policy in a statement her office sent to us:

The more we learn about childhood trauma, the clearer it becomes that the negative consequences of trauma can reverberate for a lifetime. There’s nothing more traumatic for a child than being separated from their parents, so we have to approach this challenge in a compassionate and humanitarian way. There’s nothing compassionate about losing track of over 1,500 children – that’s negligence, and it’s an outrage. I will continue to push to hold HHS accountable for its failure to keep track of the children in its care, and ensure that proper procedures are in place to compassionately care for kids who are facing unimaginable stress and trauma.

HHS has failed to prove that they have the resources, processes, or frankly the desire to truly handle this situation. As I have said, they have proven to be the worst foster care system I’ve seen – and yet even more children are expected be forced into a clearly broken system. This is not how we should treat children, regardless of what country they come from. We have a moral and humanitarian duty to protect and care for these children properly while they are under federal supervision and in this country – regardless of circumstances.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1475-immigrant-children-missing/

Under US law, children are supposed to be removed from their parents only if the parents commit a crime.  Heretofore, this applied only to parents that shot at someone or robbed a store...a specific crime apart from entering the US.  But the Trump administration takes the position that to enter the US, just to ask for asylum, is the crime, and if anyone has children, the kids must be removed and sent away.

Thus, all immigrants with children are having their kids taken away and shipped off to other parts of the country.  Nazi Germany, eh?

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:06 pm



Conflated waffle...!


And you think posting something from the "snopes" waffle factory, is credible backup for your earlier claim...!!!???


Dear oh dear...!



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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Original Quill on Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:53 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Conflated waffle...!

And you think posting something from the "snopes" waffle factory, is credible backup for your earlier claim...!!!???

Dear oh dear...!

Nothing to say, then? I'll live with that.

People can judge for themselves.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Original Quill on Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:57 pm


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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Original Quill on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:00 pm

The New York Times wrote:Federal Agencies Lost Track of Nearly 1,500 Migrant Children Placed With Sponsors

By Ron Nixon
April 26, 2018

WASHINGTON — A top official with the Department of Health and Human Services told members of Congress on Thursday that the agency had lost track of nearly 1,500 migrant children it placed with sponsors in the United States, raising concerns they could end up in the hands of human traffickers or be used as laborers by people posing as relatives.

The official, Steven Wagner, the acting assistant secretary of the agency’s Administration for Children and Families, disclosed during testimony before a Senate homeland security subcommittee that the agency had learned of the missing children after placing calls to the people who took responsibility for them when they were released from government custody.

The children were taken into government care after they showed up alone at the Southwest border. Most of the children are from Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, and were fleeing drug cartels, gang violence and domestic abuse, government data shows.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/26/us/politics/migrant-children-missing.html

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Original Quill on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:06 pm

CNN News wrote:US lost track of 1,500 immigrant children, but says it's not 'legally responsible'

By Dakin Andone, CNN
Mon May 28, 2018

(CNN)The federal government has placed thousands of unaccompanied immigrant children in the homes of sponsors, but last year it couldn't account for nearly 1,500 of them.

New DHS policy could separate families caught crossing the border illegally

Steven Wagner, a top official with the Department of Health and Human Services, disclosed the number to a Senate subcommittee last month while discussing the state of the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) that oversees the care of unaccompanied immigrant children.

Wagner is the acting assistant secretary for the Administration for Children and Families, which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services. ORR is a program of the Administration for Children and Families.

CNN reported earlier this month that, in his testimony, Wagner said during the last three months of 2017, the ORR lost track of nearly 1,500 immigrant children it had placed in the homes of sponsors.

Wagner's statement has attracted more attention amid reports that immigrant children are being separated from their parents at the US border.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/26/politics/hhs-lost-track-1500-immigrant-children/index.html

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Original Quill on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:10 pm

MSNBC wrote:Where are the 1,500 immigrant children misplaced by federal agencies?

Donald Trump said immigrant children are ‘not innocent’ when discussing undocumented, unaccompanied minors entering America.

Where are the 1,500 immigrant children misplaced by the federal agencies that apprehended them? Joy Reid and her panel discuss.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/where-are-the-1500-immigrant-children-misplaced-by-federal-agencies/vp-AAxQvwK



Last edited by Original Quill on Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:41 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Original Quill on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:30 pm

U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions in April announced a "zero-tolerance" policy to increase prosecution of Immigrants who come into the country illegally.  Included are persons who have nowhere to go because they are being persecuted in their home countries, including women being beaten by spouses, and children being sold into prostitution and slavery.  The Trump administration is indifferent to causes.

In cases where a parent crosses illegally with his or her child, the parent will be referred for prosecution and the child directed to HHS for care and custody while the child’s immigration case is resolved.  The children are separated and put into holding cells, to be ultimately shipped to other parts of the country, while the parents are placed in criminal facilities.

At a May 15 Senate committee hearing, DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen said that families who present themselves at ports of entry seeking asylum are able to stay together. DHS cautioned, however, that a family may be separated at a port of entry if the department is unable to determine custodial relationship or if DHS determines that a child may be at risk with the custodian.  This is a Catch-22, because no one travels here with a birth certificate so inevitably the parents are unable to establish custody.

Thus, almost all families who are apprehended illegally crossing the border are separated.

Nielsen said there was memorandum of agreement among departments to ensure that children transferred over to HHS after their parents are prosecuted "are not then in turn placed in the hands of traffickers, criminals, et cetera."  However, some 1,500 of the children have disappeared and so the HHS is unable to assure if they have not fallen into the hands of traffickers.

White House Chief of Staff John Kelly was asked whether separating a child from a mother is "cruel and heartless."

"I wouldn't put it quite that way," Kelly said in the May 11 interview. "The children will be taken care of — put into foster care or whatever. But the big point is they elected to come illegally into the United States and this is a technique that no one hopes will be used extensively or for very long."

The children are as young as 13-months, yet the Trump administration's position is that they volunteered to break the law.

Welcome to Nazi Germany.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:01 am

That's just repeats of the same spurious story...


And none back up your earlier spurious claim...!



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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:47 am

Surprised

The relevant authorities over there in the USA are probably running their own child trafficking/sex_slavery/paedo' rings...

Same as Viscount William Slim and his "Establishment" and House of Lord chums were doing in Britain during the 1940s and '50s..

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Suspect

Seeing Tommy's expressed attitudes towards lost and stolen children on this thread, he could easily have been one of those guvm'nt welfare agents during WWII telling children that their parents were either dead, or no longer wanted them, before sending them out to the colonies --  if he had been alive back when.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:09 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:That's just repeats of the same spurious story...

And none back up your earlier spurious claim...!

But, just a day ago you were saying that it was all hype by a biased paper.  Now that it is the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, and NBC News, you are saying it's just gossip.  The New York Times??  What is the London Times?  Lining for the parakeet cage?

No, it's originally sourced news, tommy.  Had you taken the time to read the articles I posted, you would have seen that the stories included a Senate hearing on the baby-snatching, and the Department of Health and Human Services head, as well as the Secretary of Homeland Security, flat-out admitting it!

You'd better start paying attention, tommy.  This affects you...and your babies.  What if an English mum had her baby snatched by ICE as she was visiting cousin Millie, and flown to Oregon or Montana, all traces lost?  Remember, Trump is hostile to western European countries, as well as Mexico, as evidenced by his behavior at the Big 7 meeting in Canada last week, and his frequent demands that he wants to withdraw from NATO.

He's an agent of Russia, after all, and a minion of the capo-di-tutti-capo, Vladimir Putin.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:28 pm

Original Quill wrote:
MSNBC wrote:Where are the 1,500 immigrant children misplaced by federal agencies?

Donald Trump said immigrant children are ‘not innocent’ when discussing undocumented, unaccompanied minors entering America.

Where are the 1,500 immigrant children misplaced by the federal agencies that apprehended them? Joy Reid and her panel discuss.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/where-are-the-1500-immigrant-children-misplaced-by-federal-agencies/vp-AAxQvwK


Claim: Approximately 1,500 immigrant children were lost by U.S. border security after being separated from their parents.


Verdict: False


BackgroundA story ran in the New York Times on April 26 claiming the Department of Health and Human Services "lost track" of 1,475 migrant children. A month later, some Twitter users conflated this report with the Trump administration's new policy that separates immigrants from their children if they are caught crossing the border illegally. The children referenced in the initial NYT story arrived alone and were placed with sponsors, usually a parent or close relative. The government recently tried to contact 7,600 such migrant children, and 1,475 of them didn't answer the phone.


Takes from the Left:
Overall, left-leaning publications emphasized Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon's zero tolerance policy as the paramount point of discussion, particularly after his May 26 tweet that blamed Democrats for "the horrible law that separates children from there parents once they cross the Border".


From the Washington Post:
"Laying this on Democrats does not track with reality. The TVPRA was signed by Bush, and the Flores settlement is a court-approved agreement, not a law. Nothing required the Trump administration to separate children from their families until Sessions’s zero-tolerance policy made it a practical necessity."


From Vox:
"The Trump administration estimates that it has apprehended 638 adults trying to cross into the country without documentation since the new separation policy began. They were traveling with a total of 658 children.


This is beyond other family separations that occurred — perhaps as many as 700 of them, according to New York Times reporting — before the Trump administration announced this official change in policy.


And keep in mind that these individuals have not been convicted of crimes. Many are arriving in the United States planning to seek asylum from horrific violence in Central America, particularly Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala. The United Nations estimates that the number of refugees seeking asylum from these places has increased sixteenfold since 2011."


Takes from the Right:
Overall, right-leaning publications heavily emphasized the inconsistencies surrounding the lost children, and also criticized left-leaning media bias.
From National Review:


"Last weekend a horrifying tale about the Trump administration “losing” 1,500 children was all over the Internet. The hashtag #Wherearethechildren went viral on Twitter. Adding fuel to the fire was a photo depicting children being kept in cages.


The only problem was that the children weren’t lost and the photo was taken during the Obama administration. The Left’s eagerness to embrace this “fake news” stemmed, according to the Times’s Amanda Taub, from “partisan polarization,” and as a result the tale “spread across liberal social media.”


Yet the problem goes a lot deeper than that. Anti-Trump readers and viewers may have fallen victim to confirmation bias, but prestige media outlets also deserve a lot of the blame. Even when such stories are later debunked, as this one was, these outlets habitually feed viral myths to the public and create a climate in which any anti-Trump claim seems believable. Instead of asking readers to engage in some introspection about their credulousness, liberal journalists should look at their own behavior."


From Washington Times:
"Democrats desperately want to take back the House, so they can investigate the Trump administration and impeach him, effectively shutting down his legislative agenda and weakening him for re-election. This is their top priority. To do this, they need high Latino turnout. Democrats must believe the only way to excite the base is to create false narratives and peddle them to constituency groups.


Here is the reality: Thousands of unaccompanied alien children are apprehended every month. This is not safe for a child and it is often the result of a human smuggling operations from Central America.


There are two separate issues: First, we should discourage unaccompanied minors from entering the U.S. illegally. Second, we should humanely and legally handle these children once they arrive here. I have no reason to believe this is not being done currently, but if it is, Congress should step in by providing oversight and changing the law."


https://www.allsides.com/blog/fact-check-were-1500-immigrant-children-separated-their-parents-and-lost-border

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by eddie on Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:40 pm

Regarding the OP, I really, sincerely, hope that social worker is fired. She sounds like a person with little emotional intelligence who needed to be right.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:47 pm

eddie wrote:Regarding the OP, I really, sincerely, hope that social worker is fired.  She sounds like a person with little emotional intelligence who needed to be right.


Two words Eddie

Militant Lefism

The judge was right to kick this whole case out and place the child back in the mothers care.

I mean can you imagine that now, the child not getting their way, based here, is cause to take them into care.

I mean seriously

"My mother hates me social worker, because she won't buy me a Playstation, a 3D TV and I want one"

"Oh you poor thing, what horrible parents you must have, when they should bow down to your every demand"

Rolling Eyes

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by eddie on Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:53 pm

Yeah, not in my house mate. Never would that happen in my house. When my daughter recently asked for something expensive and rather unnecessary, I might add, I told her to get a job.

“But I’m only six!” Says she

I told her that that’s no excuse really and she replied

“Well I would get one, but I think I’m too short for most things...”

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:00 pm

eddie wrote:Yeah, not in my house mate. Never would that happen in my house. When my daughter recently asked for something expensive and rather unnecessary, I might add, I told her to get a job.

“But I’m only six!” Says she

I told her that that’s no excuse really and she replied

“Well I would get one, but I think I’m too short for most things...”




What wit that little lady has.. 

Man, is she going to take no prisoners, when she is older.

That young Little Miss, is way too smart, for her own good

As a side note, you could get her to do chores.

I did the dishes at that age, and had to, in order to get my pocket money.

It helped me learn the value of money.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by eddie on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:22 pm

She does do little chores actually, but I don’t pay her. She eats loads! I reckon she should earn her food Hahahaha

She is a pretty smart cookie and sooooo outspoken. Seriously.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:32 pm

eddie wrote:She does do little chores actually, but I don’t pay her. She eats loads! I reckon she should earn her food Hahahaha

She is a pretty smart cookie and sooooo outspoken. Seriously.


She is smart, because she watches, and learns from you Eddie

I cannot think of a better compliment to say how well that makes you as a wonderful mother and teacher to her.

She has learnt most of this from you, because you are not afraid to speak your mind and say what you think. 

She will have many people respect her for it, just as you have.

I can see sooooo much of her, in you, just by your stories you tell. As you are the same on here. Bold, outspoken and fearless.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by eddie on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:41 pm

Didge wrote:
eddie wrote:She does do little chores actually, but I don’t pay her. She eats loads! I reckon she should earn her food Hahahaha

She is a pretty smart cookie and sooooo outspoken. Seriously.


She is smart, because she watches, and learns from you Eddie

I cannot think of a better compliment to say how well that makes you as a wonderful mother and teacher to her.

She has learnt most of this from you, because you are not afraid to speak your mind and say what you think. 

She will have many people respect her for it, just as you have.

I can see sooooo much of her, in you, just by your stories you tell. As you are the same on here. Bold, outspoken and fearless.

I take that as a compliment and I thank you.
Being bold, outspoken and fearless sometimes scares people away. People can’t always deal with it.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:48 pm

eddie wrote:
Didge wrote:


She is smart, because she watches, and learns from you Eddie

I cannot think of a better compliment to say how well that makes you as a wonderful mother and teacher to her.

She has learnt most of this from you, because you are not afraid to speak your mind and say what you think. 

She will have many people respect her for it, just as you have.

I can see sooooo much of her, in you, just by your stories you tell. As you are the same on here. Bold, outspoken and fearless.

I take that as a compliment and I thank you.
Being bold, outspoken and fearless sometimes scares people away. People can’t always deal with it.


I agree it does scare people, but only those, who are controlled by fear and negativity that leads their life

So then its not you being outspoken that is the problem. Its the individual, that already cannot handle the truth about themselves. They wish to wrap  themselves up in some imaginary cotten wool and try and hide away from the world and their own problems.

So the reason they cannot deal with it, is because, they are afraid to admit they could be wrong. Its one of the biggest fears of people. They dont want to be told they are wrong, but even worse recognise that they might be wrong in what they think.

Sadly fear leads their lives. When we truely unshackle those fears, then people find love and happiness.

Take you and Ben

You have overcome all those fears, finding happiness and true love.

Night Eddie

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by eddie on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:51 pm

That post was brilliant. That’s exactly it.
Exactly.

Night didge. Look after yourself and get well x

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:28 pm

eddie wrote:That post was brilliant. That’s exactly it.
Exactly.

Night didge. Look after yourself and get well x


Thanks Eddie and thanks again for your support.

x

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:42 pm

Today, a Federal baby-snatcher snatched a nursing baby from the mother's breast:

Huffington Post wrote:Breastfeeding Mother Says Officials Took Her Baby At Immigrant Detention Center

Failing Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon has ordered the separation of undocumented families as a “zero-tolerance” border policy.

An undocumented immigrant from Honduras recounted a story of federal agents separating her from her baby as she was breastfeeding, CNN reported Wednesday.

The unnamed woman said she was in an immigrant detention center awaiting prosecution for illegally entering the country when federal authorities took her daughter from her while she was trying to feed her. Attorney Natalia Cornelio, with the Texas Civil Rights Project, told CNN that in her interview with the migrant mother, the woman said she was handcuffed for resisting the separation.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced the family separation policy in May as a part of a “zero-tolerance” crackdown on immigration to the United States. Failing Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon’s administration is taking children from parents who illegally enter the country, inciting backlash from legal groups and immigration activists.

A federal judge last week refused the administration’s request to dismiss a lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union that seeks to halt the government policy. U.S. District Judge Dana M. Sabraw in San Diego ruled that, if true, Trump’s separation of families “is brutal, offensive, and fails to comport with traditional notions of fair play and decency.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/breastfeeding-mother-separated-infant-daughter-trump-immgration_us_5b21a117e4b0adfb8270c2ab

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Original Quill on Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:32 am

Fascinating article on subject from Washington Post:

The Washington Post wrote:Why the Trump administration bears the blame for separating children from their families at the border
By Philip Bump

Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon seems to recognize that news reports about children being separated from their parents at the border don’t reflect well on his administration. He has called the separations “horrible” on Twitter and, as recently as Friday morning during an interview with “Fox and Friends,” blamed the political opposition.

“I hate the children being taken away,” he said. “The Democrats have to change their law. That’s their law.”

This has been debunked repeatedly, including by The Washington Post. There is no “Democrats’ law” that necessitates separating children from their parents. As people familiar with the rules regarding the handling of young people at the border made clear in interviews on Friday, the separation policy is a function of decisions made by Trump and his team. What’s more, the administration specifically implemented the policy to serve as a deterrent for those thinking about seeking entry to the United States.

Wendy Young is the president of Kids in Need of Defense, a nonprofit organization that provides immigrant children with pro bono legal support and that has criticized Trump’s immigration policies. Young has worked on immigration issues for 30 years, well before joining KIND, including serving for a period as chief counsel on immigration policy for the Senate Judiciary subcommittee on immigration, border security and refugees.

She walked through the evolution of treatment for children who cross the border without parents accompanying them.

“In the old days, when INS still existed” — that is, Immigration and Naturalization Service — “they filled the functions of both parent, jailer, prosecutor and deporter for these kids, and it was an inherent conflict of interest,” she said. “The kids were generally housed in county jails from which INS rented space, and the total focus was to get these kids out of the country. Very few services were going into the kids.”

In 1997, the government settled a class-action suit brought by unaccompanied minors against INS. That case, Flores v. Reno, established three mandates for the government’s handling of unaccompanied minors. First, that detention should be as brief as possible, with immediate efforts being taken to find a parent, relative or qualified adult with whom the children could live. Second, that children should be treated with dignity and respect that recognized the vulnerabilities that accompany childhood. And, third, that the detention should be in the least restrictive facility possible — a facility less like a jail than a day care.

The terms of that settlement, though, were slow to be implemented given INS’s dual role. When the Department of Homeland Security was created after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, management of unaccompanied minors was transferred to the Department of Health and Human Services’ Office of Refugee Resettlement.

“The idea behind that was the Office of Refugee Resettlement had experience with unaccompanied refugee minors being resettled from overseas,” she said. “So they had some expertise, and they had no interest in the outcome of the child’s immigration case.”

In 2013, the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act added additional services for immigrant children including appointment of a child advocate.

“Never, ever, ever a perfect system,” Young said, “but certainly a trajectory in right way over past 15 years or so.”

Children who seek entry while accompanied by a parent have traditionally been routed through the same process as an adult arriving alone, since the idea is that the adult they are with can help guide them through the process.

When we spoke to Young in May, though, she noted that the Trump administration policy was effectively creating unaccompanied minors by separating arriving children from their parents.

But: Why?

Hiroshi Motomura, Susan Westerberg Prager Professor of Law at the University of California at Los Angeles, explained by phone that those separations stem from a change in the treatment of the adults.

“The key shift here is to go to criminal prosecution of the parents that are caught, combined with the practice of not releasing them,” Motomura said. “So if they release them on bond of something like this, that would not require the separation.”

Trump has repeatedly railed against what he calls “catch-and-release,” allowing immigrants to leave detention on bond.

“You catch, you take their name, and you release. Great. Wonderful,” Trump said at a rally in Tennessee last month. “Then they are supposed to show up to a court. There’s only one problem: They never show up. So we’re working on it.”

That’s not true. A study from Syracuse University’s TRAC found that more than 80 percent of those granted bond for the first 10 months of 2016 returned for their hearings.

For a family, being released on bond allows parents and children to stay together. If no bond is granted, the child is separated from a parent because the parent goes into criminal detention. Because Flores means that children can’t be detained in such facilities, the Trump administration has argued that Flores necessitates that children and parents be separated.

Flores “doesn’t come close to saying what the administration says it says,” Motomura said. There have always been some criminal prosecutions for people who are crossing the border illegally, he added. “I just never heard that this resulted in a blanket policy of family separation in this way.”

“The reality is, even though theoretically they have the authority to do that, through the immigration laws, to prosecute the parent, in the past that was truly the exception to the rule,” Young said. “The administration stating that they’re required to do this law flies in the face of a long-standing history of treating families like families and recognizing that the children, whether attached to a family or arriving unaccompanied, have particular vulnerabilities that need to be addressed.”

Motomura also noted that key administration officials have themselves argued that the separation policy is meant to be a deterrent. That is, by mandating that children be taken away from parents upon arriving at the border, the hope is that fewer parents will even try to enter the United States. (So far, there doesn’t appear to be a deterrent effect.)

Some of those who would have sought asylum in the United States may have had valid claims, “but now we’ll never know because of the policy of deterrence,” he said. “People are fleeing dire conditions, and they have to make extremely hard choices about how they’re going to survive. Some of the calculations that one might make about what might deter people in an office building in D.C. are not necessarily going to translate to people’s behavior who feel that they’re in dire straits.”

Neither Young nor Motomura indicated that policies advanced by Democratic lawmakers played a role in the new administration policy.

Young blamed the administration directly.

“They are imploding the system themselves,” she said. “It doesn’t have to happen.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/06/15/why-the-trump-administration-bears-the-blame-for-separating-children-from-their-families-at-the-border/?utm_term=.b3c94a9a0dd5

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:23 am

Waffle...



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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Syl on Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:13 pm

eddie wrote:Regarding the OP, I really, sincerely, hope that social worker is fired.  She sounds like a person with little emotional intelligence who needed to be right.

Agreed. I have known a few social workers who seem to know quite a lot in theory and absolutely nothing in practice....this one is probably childless and knows sod all about parenting.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Syl on Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:16 pm

Didge wrote:
eddie wrote:That post was brilliant. That’s exactly it.
Exactly.

Night didge. Look after yourself and get well x


Thanks Eddie and thanks again for your support.

x

I'm sorry you haven't been well Didge, whatever the problem is, get well soon. x

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Syl on Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:24 pm

Re the way some people expect parents to bow down to their kids every whim, and the way some parents have no control over their kids..in the news today..

"Police in Leicestershire were called after an 11-year-old girl "kicked off" because she was stopped from watching the reality television programme Love Island.
Officers went to the house, in Coalville, with flashing lights and sirens after a 999 call during the row over the ITV2 show.
A Leicestershire Police spokesman said the caller rang to report a "public disorder incident" and claimed they had been threatened with violence.
However, no one was injured and no arrests were made.
The incident emerged in a statement posted on the Market Bosworth Police Facebook page."
Rolling Eyes

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/15/love-island-row-leads-999-call-girl-11-kicks-stoppedfrom-watching/

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:25 pm

Syl wrote:
Didge wrote:


Thanks Eddie and thanks again for your support.

x

I'm sorry you haven't been well Didge, whatever the problem is, get well soon. x


No need to be sorry Syl, but do appreciate your kind words

I have had sugery, to remove a threat and it has been difficult, but miniscule to what others go through daily.

Thank you though.

All the best 

x

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Syl on Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:26 pm

The parents should have been charged with A...wasting police time,
and B allowing an 11 year old to watch Love Island in the first place. Twisted Evil

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:29 pm

Syl wrote:The parents should have been charged with A...wasting police time,
and B allowing an 11 year old to watch Love Island in the first place. Twisted Evil


Why the parents Syl?

It was the social workers, that caused this idocy.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Syl on Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:30 pm

Didge wrote:
Syl wrote:

I'm sorry you haven't been well Didge, whatever the problem is, get well soon. x


No need to be sorry Syl, but do appreciate your kind words

I have had sugery, to remove a threat and it has been difficult, but miniscule to what others go through daily.

Thank you though.

All the best 

x

Having any sort of surgery isn't fun at the best of times, so look after yourself Didge, and get back to your funny, feisty, (sometimes irritating) best very soon. Laughing

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Syl on Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:33 pm

Didge wrote:
Syl wrote:The parents should have been charged with A...wasting police time,
and B allowing an 11 year old to watch Love Island in the first place. Twisted Evil


Why the parents Syl?

It was the social workers, that caused this idocy.

Sorry, I should have started a different thread really.
I had introduced another case in the news, where parents made an emergency 999 call to the police because their daughter kicked off after they stopped her watching a TV programme.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/15/love-island-row-leads-999-call-girl-11-kicks-stoppedfrom-watching/








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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:33 pm

Syl wrote:
Didge wrote:


No need to be sorry Syl, but do appreciate your kind words

I have had sugery, to remove a threat and it has been difficult, but miniscule to what others go through daily.

Thank you though.

All the best 

x

Having any sort of surgery isn't fun at the best of times, so look after yourself Didge, and get back to your funny, feisty, (sometimes irritating) best very soon.  Laughing


Yeah you are right, its not fun

Thank you

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:38 pm

Syl wrote:
Didge wrote:


Why the parents Syl?

It was the social workers, that caused this idocy.

Sorry, I should have started a different thread really.
I had introduced another case in the news, where parents made an emergency 999 call to the police because their daughter kicked off after they stopped her watching a TV programme.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/15/love-island-row-leads-999-call-girl-11-kicks-stoppedfrom-watching/


If she did threaten violence and then acted violently, I do not blame the parents for calling the police.

Not all people are strong and able to control out of control children, but the parents are part to balme here for allowing the child to even watch such reality TV. As she is 11 years old. It seems to me the child is ruling the parents here

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Syl on Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:11 pm

Didge wrote:
Syl wrote:

Sorry, I should have started a different thread really.
I had introduced another case in the news, where parents made an emergency 999 call to the police because their daughter kicked off after they stopped her watching a TV programme.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/15/love-island-row-leads-999-call-girl-11-kicks-stoppedfrom-watching/


If she did threaten violence and then acted violently, I do not blame the parents for calling the police.

Not all people are strong and able to control out of control children, but the parents are part to balme here for allowing the child to even watch such reality TV. As she is 11 years old. It seems to me the child is ruling the parents here

An 11 year old kid who threatens her own parents with violence has been allowed to get that way by useless parenting imo.
That behaviour doesn't just happen overnight, it must build up, probably for many years of having little or no discipline from her parents.



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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:15 pm

Syl wrote:
Didge wrote:


If she did threaten violence and then acted violently, I do not blame the parents for calling the police.

Not all people are strong and able to control out of control children, but the parents are part to balme here for allowing the child to even watch such reality TV. As she is 11 years old. It seems to me the child is ruling the parents here

An 11 year old kid who threatens her own parents with violence has been allowed to get that way by useless parenting imo.
That behaviour doesn't just happen overnight, it must build up, probably for many years of having little or no discipline from her parents.




Its very easy to think that Syl. As some kids, no matter any disicpline, can not be swayed by this. Why do I know, because, I was taken to task many times and kicked the crap out of when out of line and yet still did not care if i was. Its more about love and effection. I was playing up because i was part of a massive family and striving for attention when young and hence played up. Hence to me, a beating was attention.

My parents were not useless, it was more me being the problem. It hardened me to stand up for my next older brother who was bullied at school, 2 years older than me. I would fight his battles and be fearless. Got beaten up a few times for this, but saved him a beating doing so. So it may not be parenting in some cases. It can clearly be many factors.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Syl on Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:25 pm

Didge wrote:
Syl wrote:

An 11 year old kid who threatens her own parents with violence has been allowed to get that way by useless parenting imo.
That behaviour doesn't just happen overnight, it must build up, probably for many years of having little or no discipline from her parents.




Its very easy to think that Syl. As some kids, no matter any disicpline, can not be swayed by this. Why do I know, because, I was taken to task many times and kicked the crap out of when out of line and yet still did not care if i was. Its more about love and effection. I was playing up because i was part of a massive family and striving for attention when young and hence played up. Hence to me, a beating was attention.

My parents were not useless, it was more me being the problem. It hardened me to stand up for my next older brother who was bullied at school, 2 years older than me. I would fight his battles and be fearless. Got beaten up a few times for this, but saved him a beating doing so. So it may not be parenting in some cases. It can clearly be many factors.

Our own life experiences always sway the way we see things don't they.

I'm sure your parents did the best they could, it couldn't have been easy having such a large family, but they coped without involving the police didn't they?...the 999 number is for emergencies, and an 11 year old brat having a tantrum is not such an emergency, someone could be lying dying in a gutter whilst the police are wasting time sorting the brat out.

I have my own experience of growing up with a brat, my sister went off the rails at home when my dad walked out, I saw myself how she tried to rule the roost at home with violence, towards me and on occasion our mum, so I'm not looking at things with closed eyes....some kids are horrors.


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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:37 pm

Syl wrote:
Didge wrote:


Its very easy to think that Syl. As some kids, no matter any disicpline, can not be swayed by this. Why do I know, because, I was taken to task many times and kicked the crap out of when out of line and yet still did not care if i was. Its more about love and effection. I was playing up because i was part of a massive family and striving for attention when young and hence played up. Hence to me, a beating was attention.

My parents were not useless, it was more me being the problem. It hardened me to stand up for my next older brother who was bullied at school, 2 years older than me. I would fight his battles and be fearless. Got beaten up a few times for this, but saved him a beating doing so. So it may not be parenting in some cases. It can clearly be many factors.

Our own life experiences always sway the way we see things don't they.

I'm sure your parents did the best they could, it couldn't have been easy having such a large family, but they coped without involving the police didn't they?...the 999 number is for emergencies, and an 11 year old brat having a tantrum is not such an emergency, someone could be lying dying in a gutter whilst the police are wasting time sorting the brat out.

I have my own experience of growing up with a brat, my sister went off the rails at home when my dad walked out, I saw myself how she tried to rule the roost at home with violence, towards me and on occasion our mum, so I'm not looking at things with closed eyes....some kids are horrors.



Oh goodness no, the police were never involved, but I did create mayhem at times and more so becuase I was muscially talented and was also a natural swimmer. We all stuck together and remember when an alsatian dog attack and bit my little sister Claire. One of my older brothers ran home and told my dad. he came down to the park with with a golf club. I watched him beat the owner and the dog. It shocked me at the time, because I thought he would kill them both, the way he layed into them, but that was how he was hardened to life. Growing up under seige in Malta in WW2. He was protecting his family.

Its like how on many occasions I got into trouble at school, but how one time, he took my side. Most occasions I would get a beating for getting into trouble. The only occasion he took my side. The deputy head punched me in the face for being in recpetion, out of class. I was there to pick up my violin. My dad had the view nobody had the right to beat me. Only him or my mother. My dad was arrested for later kicking the crap out of the deputy head, for hitting me. Of course today, this would never have happened. The deputy, would have been charged with assualt. The judge was kind to my dad, taking the view, I was assualted, but no charges were brought against the deputy head. Its the only time i was really scared. Seeing my dad loose it on somene else. Its like i knew he would never hurt me bad, but that day, he laid into that deputy teacher for punching me.

I think your sister simple could not handle losing the father figure. Was she a horror really? Or was she unable to cope with such a loss and nobody took time to notice? So to me, are you looking at this with empathic intelligence hun?

Serious questions Syl?

Your sis may have acted out, because it hit her harder than you, having your father walk out?
The fact she only acted up after this is telling, is it not?

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Syl on Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:26 pm

The violence you witnessed as a youngster obviously had an effect on the way you handled things Didge...as we say, give me the child till he is seven etc.

My sister.....she was only very young when my dad decided married life with children wasn't for him, I was only five, she was seven.
I never saw him again, my sister only once, and he didn't recognise her....but she was an adult then.

Do I think  him leaving had a bearing on the way she acted, possibly, it always affects children when a parent leaves, but she was horrible to my mum, who was a brilliantly devoted, loving parent, and I can never forgive her for that.

Incidentally, she didn't even go to mums funeral, in her words she "didn't see the point"......that gives an indication of the sort of person she is.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:37 pm

Syl wrote:The violence you witnessed as a youngster obviously had an effect on the way you handled things Didge...as we say, give me the child till he is seven etc.

My sister.....she was only very young when my dad decided married life with children wasn't for him, I was only five, she was seven.
I never saw him again, my sister only once, and he didn't recognise her....but she was an adult then.

Do I think  him leaving had a bearing on the way she acted, possibly, it always affects children when a parent leaves, but she was horrible to my mum, who was a brilliantly devoted, loving parent, and I can never forgive her for that.

Incidentally, she didn't even go to mums funeral, in her words she "didn't see the point"......that gives an indication of the sort of person she is.


But these early stages effect people and I know how they do
I am not not trying to defend her later actions, but they clearly effected her, by losing her father

I reckon she stupidly blamed your mother for this. So its not an indication Syl. I bet she hurt inside as much as you and never showed it because she blamed your mum for the break up. 

Cast aside your anger. its not worth it

My eldest bro was my godfather. I never ever really knew hin. He died because his cancer spread. There is no point being bitter or angry at anyone Syl.

Its like abroken pencil

Pointless

Its a wasted energy, hating others,

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:46 pm

And before you ask Syl.

Yes its hard to forgive those being horrible, but she is your family.

I doubt you took time to understand how it effected your sis

It clearly did and why only after she acted out

You were not to know, but you should have been there for each other. Instead, it seems you blamed each other. When your dad was the cock. Its allowed you to lose your sister. If i was you, I would do anything to rebuild that relationship with her.

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Re: Social workers remove child from home because his mother failed to buy him an ice cream.

Post by Syl on Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:02 pm

Didge wrote:And before you ask Syl.

Yes its hard to forgive those being horrible, but she is your family.

I doubt you took time to understand how it effected your sis

It clearly did and why only after she acted out

You were not to know, but you should have been there for each other. Instead, it seems you blamed each other. When your dad was the cock. Its allowed you to lose your sister. If i was you, I would do anything to rebuild that relationship with her.

Its hard to be there for someone who gets pleasure in beating you up every opportunity they get Didge. Wink This carried on for years till I was old enough for her to realise that even a placid kid can give back as good as they get under duress....and its one of the reasons I cant tolerate bullies now.


Thanks for your advice, but tbh my sister doesn't figure in my life at all. Just because people are related does'nt mean that they have to be close, sometimes its better to cut ties....which I did many years ago.
I never think about her unless the subject is brought up, and I'm sure she feels the same about me.
So alls well. x

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