Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

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Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Syl on Tue May 08, 2018 4:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

Its a possibility....good idea or bad?

"A minimum inheritance of £10,000 should be available for 25-year-olds in the UK, a think tank has suggested.
Tax reforms and a sell-off of some assets including the Government stake in RBS could help create a Citizens' Wealth Fund, the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) said.
The fund could be worth £186 billion by 2029/30, if started from 2020/21, a report by the left-of-centre think tank's Commission on Economic Justice concluded.
The proposal could help address what the think tank described as growing inequality in the UK, "giving everyone a stake and a say in the economy".





https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/25-year-olds-should-10000-12289850

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Syl on Tue May 15, 2018 11:42 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Jules wrote:

You make it sound as if employers had a choice.

They certainly didn't as far as NHS was concerned.
 
Building trade and service industry?... yes employers did have a choice but then these jobs are extremely unattractive to Brits - hence they were traditionally filled by Irish, Polish & further abroad.

Everything happens for a reason.


In the building trade, the employers can only employ if they are able to win the contracts...


So... if 'company A' has a team of available professional UK workers to do a certain potential upcoming contract, all with homes & families to pay for, and expecting to be getting a decent rate of pay for their time & effort in doing the said upcoming contract... then 'company A' will be putting in a fairly standard quote for the contract, and pricing in the cost of the fair & regularly expected rates for the workforce to do and enjoy a fair & decent living from it etc...


Now... if 'company B' pops up with a team of cheap EU workers who all live 10 to a house etc, and 'company B' can therefore pay their team a lot less, and therefore put in a much lower quote etc...


Who do you think will get the contract...!!!???


Is that fair to the UK workers who are trying to live a regular life of supporting a family etc...?


Should UK workers have to live 10 to a house too, in order to be able to get work...?


That is exactly what has happened in the building trade.
Well said Tommy.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 16, 2018 12:16 am

Maybe some EU remainer posters here think that British skilled trades'people' don't deserve to be able to earn enough to buy a home and support a family etc... as we are all loutish thugs, and all the years of college/training/qualifications/experience & real bloody hard work etc, mean nothing compared to some poncy twats micky mouse degree that they got by doing 6 hours of lectures a week for 6 months a year for 3 years, and who spent the rest of their 'higher education' in the pub or asleep in their piss stained beds crying about how hard it all was...



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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly on Wed May 16, 2018 1:05 am

Syl wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
Jules wrote:

You make it sound as if employers had a choice.

They certainly didn't as far as NHS was concerned.
 
Building trade and service industry?... yes employers did have a choice but then these jobs are extremely unattractive to Brits - hence they were traditionally filled by Irish, Polish & further abroad.

Everything happens for a reason.


In the building trade, the employers can only employ if they are able to win the contracts...


So... if 'company A' has a team of available professional UK workers to do a certain potential upcoming contract, all with homes & families to pay for, and expecting to be getting a decent rate of pay for their time & effort in doing the said upcoming contract... then 'company A' will be putting in a fairly standard quote for the contract, and pricing in the cost of the fair & regularly expected rates for the workforce to do and enjoy a fair & decent living from it etc...


Now... if 'company B' pops up with a team of cheap EU workers who all live 10 to a house etc, and 'company B' can therefore pay their team a lot less, and therefore put in a much lower quote etc...


Who do you think will get the contract...!!!???


Is that fair to the UK workers who are trying to live a regular life of supporting a family etc...?


Should UK workers have to live 10 to a house too, in order to be able to get work...?


That is exactly what has happened in the building trade.
Well said Tommy.

Not only that, it's an excellent example of why capitalism needs to be better regulated.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by veya_victaous on Wed May 16, 2018 2:02 am

Syl wrote:My son is a scaffolder, he has all the qualifications he needs and it's a very well paid job.

Unfortunately, in the past he (and the rest of the workforce) have been made redundant and replaced by a foreign workforce, who can afford to work cheaper but unfortunately are not as qualified.....sometimes it's false economy.

Nurses, doctors, builders, service industry often recruit from abroad instead of the UK.

Brexit doesn't have much to do with discussion, but perhaps it'll put a stop to firms advertising jobs abroad instead of recruiting local workers.



it has everything to do with the discussion
Brexit is a vote to Leave the Modern world and attempt to recreate what is was in Your day Rolling Eyes
because in the modern world International competition is the norm.
Todays Generation have to Compete against Migrants and offshored workforces that is just reality Gen Y and later.

What happened to your son was just market forces, it's what is supposed to happen in Capitalism.
so even your saying it was Too Hard for Young Brits as they weren't competitive in the market, and Brexit by removing yourself from the global might make it easier Rolling Eyes  (although obviously it could backfire majorly since the world is so interdependent now days)

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by veya_victaous on Wed May 16, 2018 2:08 am

Syl wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
Jules wrote:

You make it sound as if employers had a choice.

They certainly didn't as far as NHS was concerned.
 
Building trade and service industry?... yes employers did have a choice but then these jobs are extremely unattractive to Brits - hence they were traditionally filled by Irish, Polish & further abroad.

Everything happens for a reason.


In the building trade, the employers can only employ if they are able to win the contracts...


So... if 'company A' has a team of available professional UK workers to do a certain potential upcoming contract, all with homes & families to pay for, and expecting to be getting a decent rate of pay for their time & effort in doing the said upcoming contract... then 'company A' will be putting in a fairly standard quote for the contract, and pricing in the cost of the fair & regularly expected rates for the workforce to do and enjoy a fair & decent living from it etc...


Now... if 'company B' pops up with a team of cheap EU workers who all live 10 to a house etc, and 'company B' can therefore pay their team a lot less, and therefore put in a much lower quote etc...


Who do you think will get the contract...!!!???


Is that fair to the UK workers who are trying to live a regular life of supporting a family etc...?


Should UK workers have to live 10 to a house too, in order to be able to get work...?


That is exactly what has happened in the building trade.
Well said Tommy.


AND is Exactly the Way the system is Designed to work in modern times 
Literally that is 'Economic Efficacy' and is Exact the argument for using Capitalism 
It's what the world has been Working toward since the end of the WW2
It's the Reality inherited by Gen Y from the baby boomer generation

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 16, 2018 2:10 am


The problem is being in the EU & labour govt open door mass immigration system, with labour govt from 1997 to todays current labour mps (who are mostly pro EU & pro more mass immigration) being the problems...


Perpetuated by the support of leftys...



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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by veya_victaous on Wed May 16, 2018 2:23 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
The problem is being in the EU & labour govt open door mass immigration system, with labour govt from 1997 to todays current labour mps (who are mostly pro EU & pro more mass immigration) being the problems...


Perpetuated by the support of leftys...





To reduce wages which increases Economic Efficacy, the goal of Capitalism. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

What are you, a Bloody Socialist Commie? tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed May 16, 2018 9:03 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Syl wrote:My son is a scaffolder, he has all the qualifications he needs and it's a very well paid job.

Unfortunately, in the past he (and the rest of the workforce) have been made redundant and replaced by a foreign workforce, who can afford to work cheaper but unfortunately are not as qualified.....sometimes it's false economy.

Nurses, doctors, builders, service industry often recruit from abroad instead of the UK.

Brexit doesn't have much to do with discussion, but perhaps it'll put a stop to firms advertising jobs abroad instead of recruiting local workers.



it has everything to do with the discussion
Brexit is a vote to Leave the Modern world and attempt to recreate what is was in Your day Rolling Eyes
because in the modern world International competition is the norm.
Todays Generation have to Compete against Migrants and offshored workforces that is just reality Gen Y and later.

What happened to your son was just market forces, it's what is supposed to happen in Capitalism.
so even your saying it was Too Hard for Young Brits as they weren't competitive in the market, and Brexit by removing yourself from the global might make it easier Rolling Eyes  (although obviously it could backfire majorly since the world is so interdependent now days)

You, like a lot of younger people, have bought into the hyperbole exactly as you were supposed to.
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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed May 16, 2018 9:04 am

Jules wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

The reason there are fewer British nurses is down to cuts in training.   It takes £70K to train a nurse in the UK over three years...the same amount  could hire three qualified foreigners on an average salary of £23,000.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2878312/80-000-UK-students-told-t-train-nurse-Thousands-t-courses-despite-four-five-new-NHS-workers-foreign.html

Yes I know the reason. It's always money of course, like you said.

Greed is the main reason our world is in the state it's in. It revolves around money.
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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Wed May 16, 2018 9:13 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Syl wrote:
That is exactly what has happened in the building trade.
Well said Tommy.


AND is Exactly the Way the system is Designed to work in modern times 
Literally that is 'Economic Efficacy' and is Exact the argument for using Capitalism 
It's what the world has been Working toward since the end of the WW2
It's the Reality inherited by Gen Y from the baby boomer generation

Rolling Eyes

Nothing to do with the Babyboomers generation,  per se  (nor any other one generation..).

And everything to do with "supply side"/"trickle down" global capitalism, that had it's origins back in the colonial-centric/'Industrial Revolution' 18th and 19th centuries..

Well before the 1960s, '70s and early '80s when the babyboomers were entering the workforce.

And where over 90% of Babyboomers had little or no say in how things were unfolding..

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Syl on Wed May 16, 2018 11:51 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Syl wrote:My son is a scaffolder, he has all the qualifications he needs and it's a very well paid job.

Unfortunately, in the past he (and the rest of the workforce) have been made redundant and replaced by a foreign workforce, who can afford to work cheaper but unfortunately are not as qualified.....sometimes it's false economy.

Nurses, doctors, builders, service industry often recruit from abroad instead of the UK.

Brexit doesn't have much to do with discussion, but perhaps it'll put a stop to firms advertising jobs abroad instead of recruiting local workers.



it has everything to do with the discussion
Brexit is a vote to Leave the Modern world and attempt to recreate what is was in Your day Rolling Eyes
because in the modern world International competition is the norm.
Todays Generation have to Compete against Migrants and offshored workforces that is just reality Gen Y and later.

What happened to your son was just market forces, it's what is supposed to happen in Capitalism.
so even your saying it was Too Hard for Young Brits as they weren't competitive in the market, and Brexit by removing yourself from the global might make it easier Rolling Eyes  (although obviously it could backfire majorly since the world is so interdependent now days)

Capitalism seems to be just another word for greed, encouraging the rich to live off the poor.
What happened to my son and millions like him is they are being driven out of jobs by greedy companies, who will happy take advantage by underpaying others at the expense of the people who were doing a good job at a fair price.

Brexit isn't removing ourselves from the global market, it's will actually expand our opportunities to trade globally rather than being tied to Europe by the rules we have to adhere to whilst being in the EU.

You are always talking about the older generation as if they ruined the world for you poor younger ones, who incidentally have a lot more than past generations...and unless we (us oldies) had wealth and power ourselves, we couldn't make much difference anyway.
Veya, sometimes it seems to me you know a very lot in theory but not much in practice. Wink

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by nicko on Wed May 16, 2018 12:35 pm

I often wonder if his Parents know about his views on his elders, I asked him once if they did know about them, he never answered. I think he'd be embarrassed if they knew !
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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by veya_victaous on Wed May 16, 2018 11:52 pm

nicko wrote:I often wonder if his Parents know about his views on his elders,  I asked him once if they did know about them, he never answered.   I think he'd be embarrassed if they knew !


they know, why would I be embarrassed about the truth? Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect
It you baby boomers that are embarrassed to admit the truth tongue tongue tongue tongue

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by veya_victaous on Thu May 17, 2018 12:14 am

Syl wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Syl wrote:My son is a scaffolder, he has all the qualifications he needs and it's a very well paid job.

Unfortunately, in the past he (and the rest of the workforce) have been made redundant and replaced by a foreign workforce, who can afford to work cheaper but unfortunately are not as qualified.....sometimes it's false economy.

Nurses, doctors, builders, service industry often recruit from abroad instead of the UK.

Brexit doesn't have much to do with discussion, but perhaps it'll put a stop to firms advertising jobs abroad instead of recruiting local workers.



it has everything to do with the discussion
Brexit is a vote to Leave the Modern world and attempt to recreate what is was in Your day Rolling Eyes
because in the modern world International competition is the norm.
Todays Generation have to Compete against Migrants and offshored workforces that is just reality Gen Y and later.

What happened to your son was just market forces, it's what is supposed to happen in Capitalism.
so even your saying it was Too Hard for Young Brits as they weren't competitive in the market, and Brexit by removing yourself from the global might make it easier Rolling Eyes  (although obviously it could backfire majorly since the world is so interdependent now days)

Capitalism seems to be just another word for greed, encouraging the rich to live off the poor.
What happened to my son and millions like him is they are being driven out of jobs by greedy companies, who will happy take advantage by underpaying others at the expense of the people who were doing a good job at a fair price. Which is what gets voted for every time someone is elected on the premise of a 'strong economy', 'trade' or 'supporting small business'. People whinge about this then Vote for it Rolling Eyes

Brexit isn't removing ourselves from the global market, it's will actually expand our opportunities to trade globally rather than being tied to Europe by the rules we have to adhere to whilst being in the EU.  LOL that's a nice dream but it's unlikely to work out like that since the EU allowed for HUGE protections from non EU production, the Poles are nothing compared to the Chinese and Bangladeshi workers Wink

You are always talking about the older generation as if they ruined the world for you poor younger ones, who incidentally have a lot more than past generations...and unless we (us oldies) had wealth and power ourselves, we couldn't make much difference anyway. umm Nicko Literally Shot at people, trying to stop going down this path in their country Suspect Suspect Suspect
Veya, sometimes it seems to me you know a very lot in theory but not much in practice. Wink   You see this is where you are wrong, I am one of the Lucky ones that has managed to get Stuff, But I concede there has been a fuck tonne of Luck (in addition to hard work etc) to be where I am, and the majority of people are not as lucky to be born with my intelligence and then given the educational opportunities I have (at 12 was 'discovered' and sent to a school for the academically gifted). So I am not one of the poor young ones (I not even really young anymore Rolling Eyes ) But I am honest enough to acknowledge how difficult it has become for them. Which is why I support policies to CHANGE the economic system (like the OP, even if it's not perfect)  and don't go  "but I managed to do it, back in my day blah blah blah"

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by veya_victaous on Thu May 17, 2018 2:02 am



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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Syl on Thu May 17, 2018 5:21 pm

People who are retiring now need 260k and a full state pension in order to live comfortably for an average 20 years.

So it was stated on the news this week.

I have a feeling the average oap wont be anywhere near that mark.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by magica on Thu May 17, 2018 6:02 pm

Syl wrote:People who are retiring now need 260k and a full state pension in order to live comfortably for an average 20 years.

So it was stated on the news this week.

I have a feeling the average oap wont be anywhere near that mark.

Not unless you're a MP, royalty, bankers and rich. The rest of us working ants will have to struggle as always.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu May 17, 2018 6:20 pm


Veya... there are plenty of older people who have worked hard and saved hard all their lives, who are now comfortably well off... although they never had particularly well paid jobs or easy jobs... but have struggled hard to achieve what they now have...


Why do you resent them so much...?



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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu May 17, 2018 6:32 pm



Also Veya... I notice you said you were 'discovered' for being 'highly intelligent' and sent to a school for the 'academically gifted'...


Do you think that it is right/fair that there should be separate schools for only the 'highly intelligent & academically gifted' kids to be able to go to...?



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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu May 17, 2018 8:45 pm



One more thing Veya... when you said...

"...But I am honest enough to acknowledge how difficult it has become for them (youth/younger adults?)..."


Who are you talking about exactly...?


And in what way/s exactly are you talking about...?


Can you give some examples of these 'more difficult' times that young are facing now, (as you claim), and show some examples of how other comparable age/social status groups had it easier 25/40/50/60/80/100/150 years ago...???



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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri May 18, 2018 1:03 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

Also Veya... I notice you said you were 'discovered' for being 'highly intelligent' and sent to a school for the 'academically gifted'...


Do you think that it is right/fair that there should be separate schools for only the 'highly intelligent & academically gifted' kids to be able to go to...?




Yes, I support the Idea that schools should be graded to maximise Educational outcomes.
Putting everyone together means the teacher can only teach to the speed of the slowest.

the School I went to Exists to give opportunities to Poor kids to make it fair compared to Rich kid private schools Rolling Eyes

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri May 18, 2018 1:21 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

One more thing Veya... when you said...

"...But I am honest enough to acknowledge how difficult it has become for them (youth/younger adults?)..."


Who are you talking about exactly...?


And in what way/s exactly are you talking about...?


Can you give some examples of these 'more difficult' times that young are facing now, (as you claim), and show some examples of how other comparable age/social status groups had it easier 25/40/50/60/80/100/150 years ago...???



even 20 years ago You could leave school at 15 and go get an Apprenticeship and then have a career for life and In a larger company a Job for life, a steady income, a wage that allowed you to support a family and even buy a home.

That's not an option anymore, But most humans are most suited to that.

And it's not from just any era it is from the Previous generation, Up until Gen X every generation has been better off than the one before it. but from baby boomers to gen X and then to gen y it has gone down.

I am Gen Y (but at the oldest end)  so I am talking about Gen Z (those around 18 today) since their the next generation to me. SO while I Work hard and save etc, I unlike Boomers don't want it to be at the expense of future generations wellbeing. and it's not resent because they have stuff it's resent them because they Bullshit about hard they had it compared to today when for the vast majority life is more expensive and income is lower in comparison.



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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri May 18, 2018 3:12 am

Arrow

That's what people get for continually electing greed-fuelled, anti-social, corporatist (i.e. 'big business'-controlled), anti-union governments into power...

With all their downward pressures on wages, unions, environmental protections..

As for those grossly over-inflated house prices in London, New York, LA, Sydney, Melbourne, Moscow, Hong Kong, Shanghai  (and the eventual cyclical price crashes when their supply of gullible buyers inevitably dry up..);  people only have themselves to blame there as well..

Between foolish buyers consistently bidding the prices up, and idiotic "accelerated" negative-gearing tax deductions for property investors, ordinary/average would-be first home buyers were priced out of those markets decades ago.

Anybody paying more than five times their annual 'household income' on their first home is asking for trouble --  one hiccup and they're toast..

As I've said before, nothing to do with any one generation, and everything to do with the corporatist, greed-fuelled, "aspirational" and unsustainable system that they are willingly buying into...       Arrow

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri May 18, 2018 4:41 am

nothing to do with one generation .... Except the MASSIVE spike in the one generation

and the ones biding up Prices are the Baby boomers that are 'investing for their retirement' by taking a home off a young family with the express purpose of Profiting from the young families inability to purchase a home because they have all been bided up by Baby boomers  investors 'investing for their retirement' Rolling Eyes

Pre baby boomers Shelter was treated a necessity not an investment

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri May 18, 2018 5:10 am


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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri May 18, 2018 5:23 am


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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri May 18, 2018 6:52 am

veya_victaous wrote:nothing to do with one generation .... Except the MASSIVE spike in the one generation

and the ones biding up Prices are the Baby boomers that are 'investing for their retirement' by taking a home off a young family with the express purpose of Profiting from the young families inability to purchase a home because they have all been bided up by Baby boomers  investors 'investing for their retirement' Rolling Eyes

Pre baby boomers Shelter was treated a necessity not an investment

Suspect

Two problems with that idiotic corporatist-generated propaganda bulldust that unthinking and ill-educated "millenials" keep on parroting, as if they had thought it up...

*  Just over 80% of my generation "own" their own home, factor in those who still owe mortgages, and those singles who simply couldn't afford their own home, and the number of babyboomers who "own" their own home outright drops to below 70%;  then remove those who have inherited family properties and the number of individual "babyboomers" who have bought their own homes over the past 50 years is closer to 60%..

*  Of those who do own homes, maybe 20% of them are investing in additional properties --  less than 16% of babyboomers if you're lucky (which also gels with my own friends, neighbours and relatives --  where less than 1 in 7 own investment properties..).

Property prices have shot up so much around the Lower Hunter over the past three decades, that I wouldn't be able to afford to buy back into the local market, if I wanted an actual small acreage with room to move --  I would have to look out past Muswellbook, Gloucester and Taree, to find somewhere affordable that has room to put up a couple of sheds, and no near neighbours to whinge about beehives.

Two things that will help genuine "first home buyers" :

*  Get rid of accelerated 'negative gearing' tax breaks that favour investors ahead of home owners..
*  Get these "record low" interest rates up to more realistic 'real world' levels --  and then watch how many over-geared speculators tumble out of the market...        

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri May 18, 2018 7:46 am






Mate I went to Auctions for 18 months I can tell 100% its Cashed Up Boomers that were knocking any first home buyer out of the race.

And Shows How out of Touch you are with the reality of the situation since 80% at least could get a mortgage, it under 45% for 35 year old now  (and we all know since boomers keep telling Us how they moved out and got a mortgage young). When Gen Y is your age it will be NOW WHERE NEAR 70% own a house outright, it will be lucky to be 50%
ALL Gen Y want is for it to be as GOOD as it Was for your Generation That number of 80% is FUCKING HUGE, no Gen Y would be Whinging if 80% of us could get our foot in the door and get a mortgage!!!

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri May 18, 2018 11:16 am

Idea

That last graph you put up confirms the core premise of my argument ==

To wit :

Only 60-odd per-cent of over 55s own their home outright...

Meaning that over 30% don't--  rising to 40+ percent in some places..

One of the main problems with the mellenial-led debate in Australia at the moment is how Sydney- and Melbourne-centric their facile arguments are, falsely extrapolating those hardship inner city conditions out Australia-wide.

Half of their self-imposed problems would dissappear, if
*  they didn't want everything at once;
*   they stopped partying, and actually syarted saving;
*   they were more realistic about what their first home should be;
*   and if only they were prepared to "get the fuck" out away from those big over-priced cities..

Probably easily 80% of the 'babyboomers' that I know simply could never afford to buy Sydney_Basin real estate, no matter how much they wanted to.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat May 19, 2018 12:18 am



Thanks Veya...


Sounds like you would be a conservative voter if you lived here in UK... as conservative are in favour of state selective schools (grammar schools), while labour mps oppose them, although most send their own kids to private schools... and re housing cost inflation/wage rise suppression, it was labour govt who opened the taps on mass immigration from 1997 that has caused this problem, although vast majority of UK voters were against the allowance of mass immigration, and want much tighter controls and much less numbers of immigrants allowed... which again is conservative policy to have tighter controls and much less numbers of immigrants allowed...



Veya is really a tory!!!


lol!



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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat May 19, 2018 12:36 am

When todays older people were young, they had fuk all, compared to what todays young people have...!!!


Todays young people have much more 'stuff' than any others had... and a much easier time of it too!!!


Never have any young people had so much 'stuff', mollycoddling and smoke blown up their arses, than what the most recent group have had...!!!



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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat May 19, 2018 1:08 am

veya_victaous wrote:




Mate I went to Auctions for 18 months I can tell 100% its Cashed Up Boomers that were knocking any first home buyer out of the race.

And Shows How out of Touch you are with the reality of the situation since 80% at least could get a mortgage, it under 45% for 35 year old now  (and we all know since boomers keep telling Us how they moved out and got a mortgage young). When Gen Y is your age it will be NOW WHERE NEAR 70% own a house outright, it will be lucky to be 50%
ALL Gen Y want is for it to be as GOOD as it Was for your Generation That number of 80% is FUCKING HUGE, no Gen Y would be Whinging if 80% of us could get our foot in the door and get a mortgage!!!


Veya... try looking at your graphs again... and consider this...


The 50-59 group of 2004 on the left graph, are the 60+ group of 2014 on the right graph... and if you look, you will see that this group has a declining share as they get older from 2004 graph to 2014 graph...


The 40-49s have a lower share as they become older and become the 50-59 group on the right graph...


The 30-39s of the 2004 group on the left become the 40-49 group on the right 2014 graph... with what looks like a slightly increased share for that group from 2004 to 2014...


But most interestingly of all... the biggest rise in share per group over time, is the under 30s of 2004 whos share massively increased as they became the 30-39 group of 2014!!!


YOUR BLOODY GENERATION HAS HAD THE LARGEST INCREASE OF THE SHARE FROM BEING THE UNDER 30s of 2004 TO BEING THE 30-39s OF 2014!!!



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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Didge on Sat May 19, 2018 1:38 am

Okay, I am not seeing any actual reason, why we should not set as 10k for all children, who go on later to be adults in the future?

I do not see how this collective money is a bad thing and why it would be a bad thing?

All I see is a view that people do not actually read a link and why this money would be used for the benefit of many people, who actually needed it?

Arguments about people being irresponsible with money shows people are not actually reading the actual link itself

So I ask again, what is really bad about setting aside for the future money for the next generation, which will benefit then all those and after generations?

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by veya_victaous on Sat May 19, 2018 3:41 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

Thanks Veya...


Sounds like you would be a conservative voter if you lived here in UK... as conservative are in favour of state selective schools (grammar schools), while labour mps oppose them, although most send their own kids to private schools... and re housing cost inflation/wage rise suppression, it was labour govt who opened the taps on mass immigration from 1997 that has caused this problem, although vast majority of UK voters were against the allowance of mass immigration, and want much tighter controls and much less numbers of immigrants allowed... which again is conservative policy to have tighter controls and much less numbers of immigrants allowed...



Veya is really a tory!!!


lol!




Except I support more funding for all state funded schools (which i expect the Tories don't), and it is the policy that achieves the maximum education outcomes. particularly if you 'grade' it with multiple specialties like sports, performing arts and trade schools it means you can have the 'right' equipment for nurturing the student's natural talents.

And we have higher migration, while it creates some difficulties these difficulties could easily be turned into advantages with good leadership and planning for the future.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by veya_victaous on Sat May 19, 2018 3:46 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:




Mate I went to Auctions for 18 months I can tell 100% its Cashed Up Boomers that were knocking any first home buyer out of the race.

And Shows How out of Touch you are with the reality of the situation since 80% at least could get a mortgage, it under 45% for 35 year old now  (and we all know since boomers keep telling Us how they moved out and got a mortgage young). When Gen Y is your age it will be NOW WHERE NEAR 70% own a house outright, it will be lucky to be 50%
ALL Gen Y want is for it to be as GOOD as it Was for your Generation That number of 80% is FUCKING HUGE, no Gen Y would be Whinging if 80% of us could get our foot in the door and get a mortgage!!!


Veya... try looking at your graphs again... and consider this...


The 50-59 group of 2004 on the left graph, are the 60+ group of 2014 on the right graph... and if you look, you will see that this group has a declining share as they get older from 2004 graph to 2014 graph...


The 40-49s have a lower share as they become older and become the 50-59 group on the right graph...


The 30-39s of the 2004 group on the left become the 40-49 group on the right 2014 graph... with what looks like a slightly increased share for that group from 2004 to 2014...


But most interestingly of all... the biggest rise in share per group over time, is the under 30s of 2004 whos share massively increased as they became the 30-39 group of 2014!!!


YOUR BLOODY GENERATION HAS HAD THE LARGEST INCREASE OF THE SHARE FROM BEING THE UNDER 30s of 2004 TO BEING THE 30-39s OF 2014!!!




That's percentage of investors in the market
So you'd expect it to be highest among the established working age population since it is essentially a job, as it was in 2004.
But it show that there has been a massive increase in investors in the 'retirement' bracket.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by nicko on Sat May 19, 2018 5:27 am

I watch a TV program called "homes under the hammer".
The camera visits auctions where houses are sold to the highest bidder.
99% go to landlords who already have a portfolio of houses. These landlords refurbish the houses and put them up for sale or rent.
I have seen many young couples desperate for a house consistently outbid by landlords who have dozens of properties in ownership already.One confessed to owning over 200 !Young people have no chance of getting on the property ladder with greedy bastards like this ! I have to say most of the landlords seem to be Asian.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Didge on Sat May 19, 2018 5:35 am

nicko wrote:I watch a TV program called "homes under the hammer".
The camera visits auctions where houses are sold to the highest bidder.
99%  go to landlords who already have a portfolio of houses.  These landlords refurbish the houses and put them up for sale or rent.
I have seen many young couples desperate for a house consistently outbid by landlords who have dozens of properties in ownership already.One confessed to owning over 200 !Young people have no chance of getting on the property ladder with greedy bastards  like this !  I have to say most of the landlords seem to be Asian.



Do you know what Nicko

Your post was spot on until it got racial

Where I live, all the landlords are white

Labels are the problem here with what you imply and its what made people think badly of Jews in the past with money

I doubt you have ever seen many Landlords and the reality is many first time buyers, rent out their properties to foreign migrants in order that they have a viable future.

If you said London, then yes, many are Arabic and Russian rich people, but are many of the people where you live, that rent their properties Asian? Even so, the Arabs and Russians only own a very small percentage of properties in London

Seriously?

Or is it very mixed?

You come from the area of Birmingham right?

What if i was to prove you wrong here mate?

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/who-owns-west-midlands-top-13895317

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by veya_victaous on Sat May 19, 2018 6:37 am

nicko wrote:I watch a TV program called "homes under the hammer".
The camera visits auctions where houses are sold to the highest bidder.
99%  go to landlords who already have a portfolio of houses.  These landlords refurbish the houses and put them up for sale or rent.
I have seen many young couples desperate for a house consistently outbid by landlords who have dozens of properties in ownership already.One confessed to owning over 200 !Young people have no chance of getting on the property ladder with greedy bastards  like this !  I have to say most of the landlords seem to be Asian.


Here a big part of the problem was all the financial planners that people go to when they are looking to retire said 'invest in property'.
and yes the concentration of wealth is a big part of the problem too.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat May 19, 2018 8:48 am

veya_victaous wrote:nothing to do with one generation .... Except the MASSIVE spike in the one generation

and the ones biding up Prices are the Baby boomers that are 'investing for their retirement' by taking a home off a young family with the express purpose of Profiting from the young families inability to purchase a home because they have all been bided up by Baby boomers  investors 'investing for their retirement' Rolling Eyes

Pre baby boomers Shelter was treated a necessity not an investment

Why shouldn't people invest for their retirement though? The pension age here is rising, and those who haven't reached it have to wait longer for their state pension. People don't buy property just to deprive someone else of it anyway. Having said that, I've always said that the housing market should be regulated to keep prices down both for buyers and renters.

Do you suppose that the young family give a toss about those older people? Everyone wants what's best for themselves and their families, so don't pretend that young people care any more about others.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat May 19, 2018 8:49 am

nicko wrote:I watch a TV program called "homes under the hammer".
The camera visits auctions where houses are sold to the highest bidder.
99%  go to landlords who already have a portfolio of houses.  These landlords refurbish the houses and put them up for sale or rent.
I have seen many young couples desperate for a house consistently outbid by landlords who have dozens of properties in ownership already.One confessed to owning over 200 !Young people have no chance of getting on the property ladder with greedy bastards  like this !  I have to say most of the landlords seem to be Asian.


I absolutely agree with that, and that's why the programme wasn't as interesting as it could be. I never saw one episode where the buyer actually wanted to live in the property. As a result, all the houses were decorated in the same old beige way and ended up all the same.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Didge on Sat May 19, 2018 9:00 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:nothing to do with one generation .... Except the MASSIVE spike in the one generation

and the ones biding up Prices are the Baby boomers that are 'investing for their retirement' by taking a home off a young family with the express purpose of Profiting from the young families inability to purchase a home because they have all been bided up by Baby boomers  investors 'investing for their retirement' Rolling Eyes

Pre baby boomers Shelter was treated a necessity not an investment

Why shouldn't people invest for their retirement though? The pension age here is rising, and those who haven't reached it have to wait longer for their state pension. People don't buy property just to deprive someone else of it anyway. Having said that, I've always said that the housing market should be regulated to keep prices down both for buyers and renters.

Do you suppose that the young family give a toss about those older people? Everyone wants what's best for themselves and their families, so don't pretend that young people care any more about others.


Have to wait?

No they do not have to wait longer, when you can actually start collecting from a private pension at 55.

So that is complete nonsense

Yes people do buy property, knowing it will deprive others, as their intent is that it will become more valuable.

Thus they do not care that they do price people out of obtaining a house

Anyone that thinks house prices going up is a good thing, is utterly selfish, as they do not care how much this effects the next generation. They only care about money

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by HoratioTarr on Sat May 19, 2018 9:01 am

nicko wrote:I watch a TV program called "homes under the hammer".
The camera visits auctions where houses are sold to the highest bidder.
99%  go to landlords who already have a portfolio of houses.  These landlords refurbish the houses and put them up for sale or rent.
I have seen many young couples desperate for a house consistently outbid by landlords who have dozens of properties in ownership already.One confessed to owning over 200 !Young people have no chance of getting on the property ladder with greedy bastards  like this !  I have to say most of the landlords seem to be Asian.


money makes money. It's called enterprise. Can you blame people for wanting to make money? I do think though that there should be a limit to how many homes you can own as buy to let.
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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat May 19, 2018 9:03 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Why shouldn't people invest for their retirement though? The pension age here is rising, and those who haven't reached it have to wait longer for their state pension. People don't buy property just to deprive someone else of it anyway. Having said that, I've always said that the housing market should be regulated to keep prices down both for buyers and renters.

Do you suppose that the young family give a toss about those older people? Everyone wants what's best for themselves and their families, so don't pretend that young people care any more about others.


Have to wait?

No they do not have to wait longer, when you can actually start collecting from a private pension at 55.

So that is complete nonsense

Yes people do buy property, knowing it will deprive others, as their intent is that it will become more valuable.

Thus they do not care that they do price people out of obtaining a house

Anyone that thinks house prices going up is a good thing, is utterly selfish, as they do not care how much this effects the next generation. They only care about money

I said State pension, not private pension. Pay attention. You can get your personal pension at 55, but make sure you have a load of money of it, otherwise you won't get much or you'll run out in your old age.

Nobody cares about pricing anyone out of a house. Young people don't care either - they'll make a profit if they can. The point is that young people don't care about others any more than older people do. I don't think that house prices going up is a good thing - I made that very clear.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat May 19, 2018 9:04 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
nicko wrote:I watch a TV program called "homes under the hammer".
The camera visits auctions where houses are sold to the highest bidder.
99%  go to landlords who already have a portfolio of houses.  These landlords refurbish the houses and put them up for sale or rent.
I have seen many young couples desperate for a house consistently outbid by landlords who have dozens of properties in ownership already.One confessed to owning over 200 !Young people have no chance of getting on the property ladder with greedy bastards  like this !  I have to say most of the landlords seem to be Asian.


money makes money.    It's called enterprise.   Can you blame people for wanting to make money?    I do think though that there should be a limit to how many homes you can own as buy to let.  

Housing is such a basic requirement though, so should it be used to make money? I don't think so. I think it's OK to buy somewhere to use the rent to live on, but not to make huge profits by buying and selling.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Didge on Sat May 19, 2018 9:08 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:


Have to wait?

No they do not have to wait longer, when you can actually start collecting from a private pension at 55.

So that is complete nonsense

Yes people do buy property, knowing it will deprive others, as their intent is that it will become more valuable.

Thus they do not care that they do price people out of obtaining a house

Anyone that thinks house prices going up is a good thing, is utterly selfish, as they do not care how much this effects the next generation. They only care about money

I said State pension, not private pension. Pay attention. You can get your personal pension at 55, but make sure you have a load of money of it, otherwise you won't get much or you'll run out in your old age.

Nobody cares about pricing anyone out of a house. Young people don't care either - they'll make a profit if they can. The point is that young people don't care about others any more than older people do. I don't think that house prices going up is a good thing - I made that very clear.


I do not need to pay attention Rags

You can get a personal pension at 55 and then later a state pension. That does not deny you having a state pension, the point you glaringly miss

What? Nobody cares?

Come again?

If that is the attitude of people, that they do not care, then they are inherantly wrong mentally to think so and completely selfish. Though your view this is how they think is again gobbldygook. As you are basing this on your view

The point is people need to be educated that houses should be affordable and that people today who could aford them, should not think they can then make the next generation not be able to afford them

I hope the whole bubble comes crashing down

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat May 19, 2018 9:12 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I said State pension, not private pension. Pay attention. You can get your personal pension at 55, but make sure you have a load of money of it, otherwise you won't get much or you'll run out in your old age.

Nobody cares about pricing anyone out of a house. Young people don't care either - they'll make a profit if they can. The point is that young people don't care about others any more than older people do. I don't think that house prices going up is a good thing - I made that very clear.


I do not need to pay attention Rags

You can get a personal pension at 55 and then later a state pension. That does not deny you having a state pension, the point you glaringly miss

What? Nobody cares?

Come again?

If that is the attitude of people, that they do not care, then they are inherantly wrong mentally to think so and completely selfish. Though your view this is how they think is again gobbldygook. As you are basing this on your view

The point is people need to be educated that houses should be affordable and that people today who could aford them, should not think they can then make the next generation not be able to afford them

I hope the whole bubble comes crashing down

I said people have to wait longer for their state pension. Which bit of that did you not understand? I was not talking about personal pensions. Everyone knows that people generally don't save enough in their personal pensions, hence the introduction of work place pensions, which don't take enough from an employee's pay, but it's a start.

I'll say it again. Young people don't care about others any more than older people do.  If they can make a profit, they'll do it. They'll push up house prices themselves by taking out the maximum mortgage. There needs to be regulation re mortgages and house prices - nobody is going to voluntarily reduce the price they want for their house.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat May 19, 2018 9:14 am

Didge wrote:

I hope the whole bubble comes crashing down

If I say I agree with this bit, no doubt you'll change your mind and argue against the bubble crashing down.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Didge on Sat May 19, 2018 9:16 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:


I do not need to pay attention Rags

You can get a personal pension at 55 and then later a state pension. That does not deny you having a state pension, the point you glaringly miss

What? Nobody cares?

Come again?

If that is the attitude of people, that they do not care, then they are inherantly wrong mentally to think so and completely selfish. Though your view this is how they think is again gobbldygook. As you are basing this on your view

The point is people need to be educated that houses should be affordable and that people today who could aford them, should not think they can then make the next generation not be able to afford them

I hope the whole bubble comes crashing down

I said people have to wait longer for their state pension. Which bit of that did you not understand? I was not talking about personal pensions. Everyone knows that people generally don't save enough in their personal pensions, hence the introduction of work place pensions, which don't take enough from an employee's pay, but it's a start.

I'll say it again. Young people don't care about others any more than older people do.  If they can make a profit, they'll do it. They'll push up house prices themselves by taking out the maximum mortgage. There needs to be regulation re mortgages and house prices - nobody is doing to voluntarily reduce the price they want for their house.


Does it matter if they have to wait for them longer, when those with private pensions do not and can litterally blow all that money and can still be able to rely on a state pension?

I understand how I easily tie you constantly up in knots

So you invoke a load of cobblers over what young people think and base this exactly on what?

Your opinion and a poor one at that, or actual empirical evidence?

People will take out a mortgage these days simple to get a house and will spend the better part of their lives paying this off. Again it is thise view to buy a house and then later sell for a profit, which you have been indoctrinated with, which needs to change. Considering I have a house and do not think as you do, proves your claim that all young people thing this, is complete bollocks.

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Didge on Sat May 19, 2018 9:18 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

I hope the whole bubble comes crashing down

If I say I agree with this bit, no doubt you'll change your mind and argue against the bubble crashing down.


Glad we can agree, (if you do of course) makes a nice change   Laughing

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Re: Should all 25 year olds be given a £10,000 helping hand from the government?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat May 19, 2018 9:27 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

If I say I agree with this bit, no doubt you'll change your mind and argue against the bubble crashing down.


Glad we can agree, (if you do of course) makes a nice change   Laughing

It does indeed. The trouble is that house prices would have to crash everywhere, not just in certain areas. If prices stayed high in some places and crashed in others, people would buy in the cheaper areas and push the prices up again.

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