Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

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Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Didge on Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:52 am

[*]Proposals designed to speed up the eviction of illegal encampments in the UK 

[*]New plans could see police could get new powers to evict troublesome travellers

[*]Ministers are considering criminalising unauthorised camps amid concerns 


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5580085/Ministers-unveil-plans-new-clampdown-illegal-travellers.html#ixzz5Bm5DSYKo 
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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by nicko on Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:58 am

About time, they are a bloody pest !
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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Original Quill on Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:30 pm

nicko wrote:About time,  they are a bloody pest !

Where should they go? Have you got any plans?

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by nicko on Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:37 pm

Your back Garden?
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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:46 pm

Idea

Britain could always give N. Ireland back to Eire...

Then those "travellers" would have to replace their British passports with Irish ones instead..

Then, the British authorities would not be limited to only telling those "travellers" to move on, but could then also have the option of expelling them as "illegal aliens"  !    alien


Hundreds of Irish "travellers" have been invading Oz and NZ over the summer months for several years now.   With autumn coming on down here, you lot can expect a flood of those suntanned and energised shonky scamsters to return to merry ol' England in the next few weeks..

The sooner N. Ireland is liberated from the colonial yolk of occupation, the better it will be all 'round...        

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Original Quill on Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:04 pm

nicko wrote:Your back Garden?

I'll take that answer as a 'No'.

That is the reason why you are always encountering these blights. If you owned a business, it would not be very long before you fizzled if you refused to anticipate problems before they arose. Glib answers are a recipe for failure.

It's the same with a nation. You ignore a problem, you get voted out.

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by nicko on Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:49 am

A few weeks back a "tribe" of Travellers set up camp in a London park. They were there for nine days.

After they moved on they left behind--------2 burnt out cars, around 10 tons of Bricks and old Tarmac, human waste all over the place, all of witch cost £50,000 to remove, and Quill feels sorry for them !
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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Original Quill on Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:15 pm

It's not a matter of feeling sorry.  It's a matter of doing your job.

Did you clean up the shit, nicko?

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by nicko on Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:15 pm

Don't be a prat all your life---------have a day off occasionally !
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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Original Quill on Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:26 pm

nicko wrote:Don't be a prat all your life---------have a day off occasionally !

As usual, nicko, you haven't a clue about the subject matter you are discussing. So you are reduced to vague insults and epithets.

Well then, your answer is to do nothing? Reminds me of an old rhyme:

Leave 'em alone,
And they'll come home,
Wagging their tails behind them.

Good luck.

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Vintage on Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:07 pm

No you are wrong Quill, you already know that though.
Speak to just about anyone living anywhere these people decide to roll up, private or public properties and they'll tell you about the property that goes missing in the area, the intimidation, the damage done to the area by four wheel drives, the rubbish left including human excrement, that public money has to be used to clean up. There are by law places for travelling people to go to with shower blocks, toilet facilities and electrical supplies, they are considered a minority here and protected as such. Quite a number stay permanently on these sites (so much for the beloved travelling life) others have rather nice properties in southern Ireland, some in Kent.
Ireland by the way does not recognise them as a minority and won't tolerate them rolling up to private or public property however temporarily.

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Original Quill on Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:54 pm

Vintage wrote:No you are wrong Quill, you already know that though.
Speak to just about anyone living anywhere these people decide to roll up, private or public properties and they'll tell you about the property that goes missing in the area, the intimidation, the damage done to the area by four wheel drives, the rubbish left including human excrement, that public money has to be used to clean up. There are by law places for travelling people to go to with shower blocks, toilet facilities and electrical supplies, they are considered a minority here and protected as such. Quite a number stay permanently on these sites (so much for the beloved travelling life) others have rather nice properties in southern Ireland, some in Kent.
Ireland by the way does not recognise them as a minority and won't tolerate them rolling up to private or public property however temporarily.

Ok, there's the answer.  My question was, what to do about such homeless people?  If the UK has set up a hostel system for them, then they are provided for.

A few years ago my daughter and I were in London, and encountered a homeless man, filthy and unkempt, sleeping in the gutter around SoHo.  I stopped a patrolman and asked him to help the poor soul.  He said: "Oy mate, he's all right, he's been sleeping 'ere for twenty years."  I didn't know they had changed that.

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Vintage on Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:34 pm

Well there's a big difference in travellers and homless people.
There's always been homeless people we used to see a lot of them when I was young they were called gentlemen of the road or tramps. They'd come to the house and ask for hot water, which they'd get along with food and any clean clothes we could spare, we weren't exactly flush ourselves but compared to them we were rich I suppose. Most had problems of alcohol, what is now ptsd and mental health problems. Now its much worse with drugs adding to the problems and families just not able to cope with drug addicts and alcoholics. There are not enough jobs to re habiliate people - if they want it and many do, although without a job people just slip back into bad habits. I can't understand why we are allowing a city or two's worth of people with no jobs in place to enter this country ebery year when we can't support the low paid (children in school malnurished and with dirty clothes) and homeless that we've already got. The man who died near Parliament had been deported back to Portugal at least twice and was illegal = how much are people, who aren't earning a fortune, expected to pay towards people who won't respect the law and won't fit into society.   , not the ones who can't due to mental health problems.

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:56 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Vintage wrote:No you are wrong Quill, you already know that though.
Speak to just about anyone living anywhere these people decide to roll up, private or public properties and they'll tell you about the property that goes missing in the area, the intimidation, the damage done to the area by four wheel drives, the rubbish left including human excrement, that public money has to be used to clean up. There are by law places for travelling people to go to with shower blocks, toilet facilities and electrical supplies, they are considered a minority here and protected as such. Quite a number stay permanently on these sites (so much for the beloved travelling life) others have rather nice properties in southern Ireland, some in Kent.
Ireland by the way does not recognise them as a minority and won't tolerate them rolling up to private or public property however temporarily.

Ok, there's the answer.  My question was, what to do about such homeless people?  If the UK has set up a hostel system for them, then they are provided for.

A few years ago my daughter and I were in London, and encountered a homeless man, filthy and unkempt, sleeping in the gutter around SoHo.  I stopped a patrolman and asked him to help the poor soul.  He said: "Oy mate, he's all right, he's been sleeping 'ere for twenty years."  I didn't know they had changed that.

They are not homeless, Quill. Most of them are from the Republic of Ireland and exercise their right of entry into the UK under the provisions of the European Union convention governing the guarantee of free movement of all citizens of member nations.

Many of them have houses in the ROI,heavily  subsidised by the EU under special arrangements introduced by the EU Commission as what was, in effect, a bribe to the Government of the ROI to run a second, if necessary a third, national referendum on one of the past EU Treaties, the provisions of which Southern Ireland had originally rejected.

The Commission, at the time, made it quite clear to the ROI government that they would be forced to hold referenda repeatedly until the country delivered the result that the Commission was demanding.

Among the "sweeteners" was a social housing project in the ROI covering permanent houses and caravan sites for those who had chosen an itinerant way of life and who needed either permanent homes or permanent and fully equipped encampment sites for their vehicles and caravans and  it is well known that many of them sub-let these houses to third parties during the periods that they are living and working in the UK.

Because of EU law, local authortities in the UK are legally obliged to provide similar encampment sites for "travellers", whether they choose to use them or not and regardless of the use of them as known  bases for criminal antisocial activities.

I live in a village three miles from one such "traveller" site and we are plagued by constant break-ins,petty theft,  fly-tipping, violence and disruption of local school activities. My own farm buildings have been broken into four times in the past three years...and the police say that although they are 100 per cent certain that the culprits are from the encampment they can do nothing because the are not allowed to enter the "traveller" site to investigate because of the very real and present danger of violence and even rioting. Plus, of course, the predictable threat of legal action for a breach of the "travellers" so-called human rights.

If a group of these people move their caravans onto private land, including parks and even school sports fields, and totally wreck it and despoil it with utter filth from their chemical toilets, building materials or even waste toxic materials such as asbestos we can only have them moved on after County or High Court action because it is considered to be a civil and not a criminal offence.

Anything than can be done by our government to rid us of these filthy bastards will be long, long overdue.
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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by nicko on Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:46 am

So Quill, stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
[Old English saying] !
Bye the way, for a supposed Lawyer you know fuck all about English law, I suggest you go to your local Library and borrow some books on it !
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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:50 am

Perhaps most travellers are very nice people, but the problem is that many of them turn up in an area and park where they like - in school grounds, or in car parks where they block many spaces and don't pay. Then they throw all their rubbish around for some reason. Why they can't put it neatly in bin bags I don't know.

There are also reports of a rise in shop lifting in the area where they are, and quite often blatant stealing and getting services for free - eg, hair dressers where they just walk out without paying. If they behaved properly, perhaps people wouldn't mind them.

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Syl on Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:15 pm

I don't know anyone who lives near land where travellers decide to inhabit that doesn't object to them being there.
They are a bloody nuisance.
If there are designated areas for them to be why cant they use them instead of inflicting themselves on people who actually pay rent, rates, and all the other costs that decent people have to fork out for.

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Original Quill on Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:51 pm

nicko wrote:So Quill, stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
[Old English saying] !
Bye the way, for a supposed Lawyer you know fuck all about English law,   I suggest you go to your local Library and borrow some books on it !

Meh...so we were talking, not about the homeless, but your English anti-Irish biases. Nevertheless, I feel vindicated in that, either way, I was on the right side.

Why should I know about English law? BTW, looking after the poor and disenfranchised is hardly a legal question. It starts with the legislature.

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Original Quill on Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:55 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Perhaps most travellers are very nice people, but the problem is that many of them turn up in an area and park where they like - in school grounds, or in car parks where they block many spaces and don't pay. Then they throw all their rubbish around for some reason. Why they can't put it neatly in bin bags I don't know.

There are also reports of a rise in shop lifting in the area where they are, and quite often blatant stealing and getting services for free - eg, hair dressers where they just walk out without paying. If they behaved properly, perhaps people wouldn't mind them.

Are you saying it's basically a litter-control and petty crime problem?  If so, the answer is very simple...better communication and enforcement.


Last edited by Original Quill on Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Original Quill on Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:09 pm

Syl wrote:I don't know anyone who lives near land where travellers decide to inhabit that doesn't object to them being there.
They are a bloody nuisance.
If there are designated areas for them to be why cant they use them instead of inflicting themselves on people who actually pay rent, rates, and all the other costs that decent people have to fork out for.

As an off-shore observer, this sounds like a very petty problem.  Look, we know you guys on the big island don't like the Irish.  So that's probably the start.  In the southern US we have a similar problem with white supremacists who instinctively criticize blacks, primarily claiming that they are messy, litterers, and petty criminals.  You see a pattern here?

You probably need to make an effort to reach out to them, perhaps with an advertising campaign that teaches standards and adherence to rules.  After that, comes enforcement...but gently, like our Fish & Game, and Park Rangers, who deal with very similar, generally light issues like littering and licensing.  With such petty issues, you don't need to play big-time crime and punishment games.  That's just anti-Irish talk.

Now go be better neighbors! Laughing

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Syl on Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:19 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:I don't know anyone who lives near land where travellers decide to inhabit that doesn't object to them being there.
They are a bloody nuisance.
If there are designated areas for them to be why cant they use them instead of inflicting themselves on people who actually pay rent, rates, and all the other costs that decent people have to fork out for.

As an off-shore observer, this sounds like a very petty problem.  Look, we know you guys on the big island don't like the Irish.  So that's probably the start.  In the southern US we have a similar problem with white supremacists who instinctively criticize blacks, primarily claiming that they are messy, litterers, and petty criminals.

You probably need to make an effort to reach out to them, perhaps with an advertising campaign that teaches standards and adherence to rules.  After that, comes enforcement...but gently, like our Fish & Game, and Park Rangers, who deal with very similar, generally light issues like littering and licensing.  With such petty issues, you don't need to play big-time crime and punishment games.  That's just anti-Irish talk.

Now go be better neighbors!

It has nothing to do with where they originate from.
The neighbourhood I live in has about every nationality you could think of, with no trouble whatsoever.
Using the race card all the time is useless...and like someone else said here recently, it just waters down the real meaning of racism.

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Original Quill on Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:37 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

As an off-shore observer, this sounds like a very petty problem.  Look, we know you guys on the big island don't like the Irish.  So that's probably the start.  In the southern US we have a similar problem with white supremacists who instinctively criticize blacks, primarily claiming that they are messy, litterers, and petty criminals.

You probably need to make an effort to reach out to them, perhaps with an advertising campaign that teaches standards and adherence to rules.  After that, comes enforcement...but gently, like our Fish & Game, and Park Rangers, who deal with very similar, generally light issues like littering and licensing.  With such petty issues, you don't need to play big-time crime and punishment games.  That's just anti-Irish talk.

Now go be better neighbors!

It has nothing to do with  where they originate from.

The neighbourhood I live in has about every nationality you could think of, with no trouble whatsoever.

Yet several of you have made an issue of the fact that they are from southern Erie.  I didn't bring it up.  The ones who did were at pains to distinguish these "travelers" from the run-of-the-mill homeless.

Syl wrote:Using the race card all the time is useless...and like someone else said here recently, it just waters down the real meaning of racism.

I don't really see a race issue here.  The Irish are the same core stock as the English, Welsh and Scots...the latter having a little more Norse blood in them because the "visits" came from the east around Norway and the Schleswig-Holstein peninsula.  But Germanic blood reached the Irish too...witness the red hair in the otherwise "dark" Celtic features.

It's just that over many, many generations you guys have developed an huge antipathy  toward your neighbors to the west.  Some call it religion, but I think it's deeper than that.

But the causes and reasons are another story.

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Syl on Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:49 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

It has nothing to do with  where they originate from.

The neighbourhood I live in has about every nationality you could think of, with no trouble whatsoever.

Yet several of you have made an issue of the fact that they are from southern Erie.  I didn't bring it up.  The ones who did were at pains to distinguish these "travelers" from the run-of-the-mill homeless.

Syl wrote:Using the race card all the time is useless...and like someone else said here recently, it just waters down the real meaning of racism.

I don't really see a race issue here.  The Irish are the same core stock as the English, Welsh and Scots...the latter having a little more Norse blood in them because the "visits" came from the east around Norway and the Schleswig-Holstein peninsula.  But Germanic blood reached the Irish too...witness the red hair in the otherwise "dark" Celtic features.

It's just that over many, many generations you guys have developed an huge antipathy  toward your neighbors to the west.  Some call it religion, but I think it's deeper than that.

But the causes and reasons are another story.

This has nothing to do with anyones dislike of the Irish....something you are banging on about not me.
We have a large Irish community in Manchester, they fit right in and have always been welcomed.
Even when the IRA were bombing England (including Manchester) the majority of people didn't judge the Irish they knew with the terrorists. So you are way off with your remarks.

The reason people here (wherever they originate from) dont want the travellers illegally pitching up near them is because they are a bloody nuisance. Crime soars, filth ensues, and that's usually the way it carries on till they get moved.

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by nicko on Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:57 pm

Quill, you are steadily losing it with every post you make ! Your hole is deep enough, STOP DIGGING.
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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Syl on Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:04 pm

And Quill, why not address Freds points, he obviously has first hand experience of the mayhem the travellers can cause in communities.

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Vintage on Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:41 pm

Quill and his race thing is repeating the IRA fund raising propoganda prevalent in the USA during the troubles and obviously still believed to this day.
I mentioned Southern Ireland because many of the travellers in Britain have very nice properties in Southern Ireland, some have homes in Kent and Essex.
There really isn't animosity towards the Southern Irish who have been able to come and go freely between Ireland and Britain for many years. In many industrial and pot industrial communities you'll find people with connections to Ireland from the wave of people coming to the northern cities and Welsh valleys 1880's to work in mills, foundaries and the mines they have for the most part blended right in
over the generations, others still have connections or are more recent arrivals but everyone just gets on.
Even the Southern Irish aren't very partial to the Travellers, they don't consider them a minority and they don't have specail status unlike in Britain. They live by their own code and basically ignore the law of the land, stealing from non travellers is considered acceptable and in no way wrong.

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Re: Police could get new powers to evict travellers as ministers plan crackdown on illegal camps

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:05 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

It has nothing to do with  where they originate from.

The neighbourhood I live in has about every nationality you could think of, with no trouble whatsoever.

Yet several of you have made an issue of the fact that they are from southern Erie.  I didn't bring it up.  The ones who did were at pains to distinguish these "travelers" from the run-of-the-mill homeless.

Syl wrote:Using the race card all the time is useless...and like someone else said here recently, it just waters down the real meaning of racism.

I don't really see a race issue here.  The Irish are the same core stock as the English, Welsh and Scots...the latter having a little more Norse blood in them because the "visits" came from the east around Norway and the Schleswig-Holstein peninsula.  But Germanic blood reached the Irish too...witness the red hair in the otherwise "dark" Celtic features.

It's just that over many, many generations you guys have developed an huge antipathy  toward your neighbors to the west.  Some call it religion, but I think it's deeper than that.

But the causes and reasons are another story.

There is no race issue at all; the "travellers" who cause the vast majority of the crime and other problems are from the ROI and, as you point out, are the same core stock as the English.

They have absolutely nothing to do with the Roma gypsies who have travelled around this country for generations and some of whom still live in traditional hoop-topped horse-drawn caravans. Most of their crimes are of a petty nature, including poaching, pinching wood for fuel and illegally grazing their horses on private land (technically stealing the grass!) but they would never foul and despoil the environment as the new breed of "travellers" do before simply moving on to someone else's property when their temporary site has become so polluted by such delights as used nappies (diapers), toxic building material and chemical toilet effluent (some of which poisoned a brook in this village, killing practically everything, a couple of years ago) that it becomes too foul and vile even for them.

The stories from villagers in this area who have to live in close proximity to council-provided traveller caravan sites are absolutely horrendous: Wild drunken parties with loud music that go on until the early hours, lorry loads of building and other rubbish dumped in the knowledge that the local taxpayers will either have to pay for it to be removed as an alternative to having it dumped in their own driveways and roadside verges, council-provided facilities such as toilet blocks and wash rooms routinely trashed and fittings stolen, once peaceful village pubs all but deserted because of constant drunkenness, fighting, intimidation and theft and village schools once rated as excellent or outstanding by our educational system downgraded because of disruption and pilfering caused by traveller children. And the endless house burglary and theft of garden tools, equipment and furniture and even garden gates and fences!

Unfortunately we can't do anything about these council provided sites - enforced for "human rights" reasons (though with no consideration for our own human rights) but making illegal occupation of private property and public open space and playing fields a criminal rather than a civil offence would at least be a start to reducing this scourge.
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Fred Moletrousers
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