Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

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Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:02 am

You guys told me when I wrote positively about Breaking the Silence that I was wrong and it looks like you were right. Hat tip to all of you but most importantly to David Collier for putting all this stuff together.


Thanks to the work of the researcher David Collier, a secret antisemitic Facebook group called Palestine Live has been exposed. At one time, the group’s membership included Jeremy Corbyn, the man who now leads the UK Labour Party.

In this group, Holocaust denial material was shared as well as other explicitly antisemitic material, whilst the idea that there was antisemitism in the Labour Party was ridiculed.

The group has over 3,000 members, two of them are or were Avner Gvaryahu and Eran Efrati, the former and current heads of the left wing group Breaking the Silence.

This came as a blow to me personally. I’ve gone to bat for Breaking the Silence a couple of times in the past, and took their tour of Hebron, which I found to be a truly eye-opening experience.

I thought that this was a group of people with Israel’s best interests at heart. Clearly, they’ve lost their way.
Palestine Live was founded by a lady called Elleanne Green, who has shared posts claiming Israel was behind terrorist attacks in France, claiming that the Kotel isn’t Jewish, that 9/11 was a conspiracy, and on and on:


And here is a board member of Jewish Voice for Peace Eran Efrati chatting with her in that very group, the one filled with antisemitism. In fact they rather like him there;

How did things get so bad that he’s chatting to a person who promoted, in the same group, the Iranian Holocaust denial competition?

The current head of Breaking the Silence, Avner Gvaryahu, was also a member of the group;

It’s unlikely that Elleanne Green could have added him to the group if they hadn’t been Facebook friends at the time.
Gvaryahu decided to respond to this fact becoming known with flippancy;
אין עצוב יותר מטרולים שלא מבינים איך עובד האינטרנט
— Avner Gvaryahu (@AGvaryahu) March 7, 2018
And then later he gave us this;
אז אחרי שטרול ימני תקף אותי בטוויטרית בגלל שצורפתי לאיזה קבוצת פייסבוק ללא רשותי, בדקתי לאיזה עוד קבוצות צורפתי ולהלן מדגם מהתוצאות:
1. המטטא – ריקוד חופשי
2. חברון מאז ולתמיד
3.פורום לעובדות ועובדים סוציאליים
4. גם אני אוהד את אוהד בלב שלם (?)
5. מרכז קהילתי באקה אלגרביה >>
— Avner Gvaryahu (@AGvaryahu) March 7, 2018
And then this;
הזדמנות מעולה לקצת ניקיון אינטרנטי. דרך אגב, ברגע שראיתי חלק מהשיט שהקבוצה הזו (3.5 אלף חברים בה) מפרסמת עזבתי בשמחה. אבל המטטא- ריקוד חופשי ישאר בליבי לעדpic.twitter.com/st9O7Ldwbo
— Avner Gvaryahu (@AGvaryahu) March 7, 2018
He claims to have had a good social media clean. Maybe not good enough. It took me all of five seconds to find his friend Howard Cohen, a man who thinks British government policy is directed by “Zionists” and who defends Tony Greenstein who was recently expelled from the Labour Party for…yes antisemitic Tweets he’d made;


Collier delved right into the heart of the Pro-Palestine campaign in the UK and found antisemitism in it.
As Israeli Pro-Palestine campaigners, it must be tempting for people in Breaking the Silence and elsewhere to look away, to pretend it’s no big deal because then they still have people they can work with in the UK pro-Palestine community.

But really, Collier’s work doesn’t leave much up to the imagination. Gvaryahu has been placed in a group with people who are avowedly pro-Palestinian. Nothing wrong with that…except that they also tend to think 9/11 was a Mossad operation and that the Rothschilds secretly rule over the world.

Yesterday, another Corbyn, this time Jeremy’s son Tommy, posted this on Facebook:



The post became a thread hopelessly inundated with antisemitic conspiracy theories from various people who seem to be voting for Tommy’s father.
Breaking the Silence should be asking how it’s possible that they have been caught up in all this. When you spend your entire life calling other people racists, when you devote your life to the cause of fighting oppression you really don’t want to be hanging out with racists and conspiracy theorists just because they say they’re fighting the same cause as you. If you do you want to take it all more seriously than a few flippant remarks on Twitter in the hope that no one will really notice. I noticed. I’m sure others did too.
Now, what is he going to do about it?

UPDATE:
Earn Efrati was never the head of Breaking the Silence. I have updated the article to reflect this. According to his Twitter account he is “Executive Director, RAIA (Researching the American-Israeli Alliance)/ Board Member, Jewish Voice for Peace” he was an activist for Breaking the Silence at one point.


http://hurryupharry.org/2018/03/08/breaking-the-silence-with-holocaust-deniers/

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Original Quill on Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:07 am

Tall words from a racist denier.

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:11 am

Original Quill wrote:Tall words from a racist denier.


The article author?

What racism has he denied?

Or me for that fact?

Misdirection alert or does this prove that some on the left do not care about such issues as holocaust denial?

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:11 am

Shit where is Eddie to back me up?

lol!

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Original Quill on Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:12 am

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Tall words from a racist denier.


The article author?

What racism has he denied?

Or me for that fact?

Misdirection alert or does this prove that some on the left do not care about such issues as holocaust denial?

I'm talking about you, dickwad fucktard.

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:13 am

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:


The article author?

What racism has he denied?

Or me for that fact?

Misdirection alert or does this prove that some on the left do not care about such issues as holocaust denial?

I'm talking about you, dickwad fucktard.


So you are deliberately derailing the thread then.

What racism have I denied, again asking for the second time?

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Original Quill on Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:17 am

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I'm talking about you, dickwad fucktard.


So you are deliberately derailing the thread then.

What racism have I denied, again asking for the second time?

Don't play the naive one. You have denied all of American racism, from slavery to post-BLM, which marks you as a dedicated racist. End of...

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:19 am

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:


So you are deliberately derailing the thread then.

What racism have I denied, again asking for the second time?

Don't play the naive one.  You have denied all of American racism, from slavery to post-BLM, which marks you as a dedicated racist.  End of...


So you are just making up a load of bullshit as per usual.

Show me again for the third time asking. Where I have denied racism that happens in America?

Never have

What I rightly disagree on is your view, is that America is a racist nation.

Its why I have asked you to show me the laws rescinded and changed that deny civil rights to African Americans?

Come up pee wee, in your own time

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:21 am

Where is Eddie to defend me from Quill calling me a Racist

lol!

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Original Quill on Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:26 am

Didge wrote:Where is Eddie to defend me from Quill calling me a Racist

lol!

You are a racist. How can you deny that? What gall! We just had this conversation 2-3 days ago, when you were defending southern racism. You lie like Trump!!

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:28 am

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Where is Eddie to defend me from Quill calling me a Racist

lol!

You are a racist.  How can you deny that?  What gall!  We just had this conversation 2-3 days ago, when you were defending southern racism.  You lie like Trump!!

Again for the fourth time, show me some of these posts where you claim I am racist or deny racism?

I certainly think BLM is born from an intention of good, but is in actuality racist itself

As seen many people are shot by the Police

There is no Asian lives matter and why is that?


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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:54 am

I've never really understood why it's antisemitic to deny the Holocaust. I also don't understand why it's racist to say that something isn't racist.

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:15 am

Raggamuffin wrote:I've never really understood why it's antisemitic to deny the Holocaust. I also don't understand why it's racist to say that something isn't racist.



https://www.ushmm.org/confront-antisemitism/holocaust-denial-and-distortion

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:25 am

It might be a form of antisemitism depending on the motive. There are people who like to see more evidence before they believe something. There are people who dispute the figures just because they think the evidence doesn't stack up. That doesn't make them antisemitic. Just because someone says it does makes no difference to that.

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:48 am

Raggamuffin wrote:It might be a form of antisemitism depending on the motive. There are people who like to see more evidence before they believe something. There are people who dispute the figures just because they think the evidence doesn't stack up. That doesn't make them antisemitic. Just because someone says it does makes no difference to that.

You did not watch the video did you Rags?

Do you know who that is in the video?

And who she won a libel case against?

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:48 am

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:


So you are deliberately derailing the thread then.

What racism have I denied, again asking for the second time?

Don't play the naive one.  You have denied all of American racism, from slavery to post-BLM, which marks you as a dedicated racist.  End of...

I found the conversation you're referring to, and I don't see that Didge denied American racism, especially slavery. Even if he did, I don't see how that would make him racist.

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:49 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:It might be a form of antisemitism depending on the motive. There are people who like to see more evidence before they believe something. There are people who dispute the figures just because they think the evidence doesn't stack up. That doesn't make them antisemitic. Just because someone says it does makes no difference to that.

You did not watch the video did you Rags?

Do you know who that is in the video?

And who she won a libel case against?

I watched a bit of it, but let's face it - she's a bit biased isn't she? I can think for myself, I don't need to find out if Holocaust denial is antisemitic or not from someone else. I have my own views.

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:52 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

You did not watch the video did you Rags?

Do you know who that is in the video?

And who she won a libel case against?

I watched a bit of it, but let's face it - she's a bit biased isn't she? I can think for myself, I don't need to find out if Holocaust denial is antisemitic or not from someone else. I have my own views.

Again, do you know who she is?

She won a very famous libel case brought against her by a very racist well known holocaust denier

Where the burden of proof is on the defendent

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:53 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I watched a bit of it, but let's face it - she's a bit biased isn't she? I can think for myself, I don't need to find out if Holocaust denial is antisemitic or not from someone else. I have my own views.

Again, do you know who she is?

She won a very famous libel case brought against her by a very racist well known holocaust denier

Where the burden of proof is on the defendent

What does that have to do with my views on Holocaust denial?

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:57 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

Again, do you know who she is?

She won a very famous libel case brought against her by a very racist well known holocaust denier

Where the burden of proof is on the defendent

What does that have to do with my views on Holocaust denial?

Sorry, but do you deny the Holocaust or aspects of the Holocaust?

She explains it very well how it forms either a hard or soft form of antisemitism, hence why you need to read it through.

Deborah won a case against David Irving, where he brought the libel case against her.
She and her deffense team proved systematically her accusations against him were emphatically true.
He was also through this very much exposed as a racist.

I suggest you look into this further and actually understand why people try to deny the holocaust

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:04 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

What does that have to do with my views on Holocaust denial?

Sorry, but do you deny the Holocaust or aspects of the Holocaust?

She explains it very well how it forms either a hard or soft form of antisemitism, hence why you need to read it through.

Deborah won a case against David Irving, where he brought the libel case against her.
She and her deffense team proved systematically her accusations against him were emphatically true.
He was also through this very much exposed as a racist.

I suggest you look into this further and actually understand why people try to deny the holocaust

No, I do not. I've accepted what I've been told or what I've read about it. However, I haven't done any other research into the accuracy of that.

You're talking about one person and their motives, and you're talking about the opinion of others as to his motives. There are others who deny the Holocaust, and you can't speak for all of them.

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:07 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

Sorry, but do you deny the Holocaust or aspects of the Holocaust?

She explains it very well how it forms either a hard or soft form of antisemitism, hence why you need to read it through.

Deborah won a case against David Irving, where he brought the libel case against her.
She and her deffense team proved systematically her accusations against him were emphatically true.
He was also through this very much exposed as a racist.

I suggest you look into this further and actually understand why people try to deny the holocaust

No, I do not. I've accepted what I've been told or what I've read about it. However, I haven't done any other research into the accuracy of that.

You're talking about one person and their motives, and you're talking about the opinion of others as to his motives. There are others who deny the Holocaust, and you can't speak for all of them.

I have done plenty of research, as Cass has also

OMG, your last point does not even warrant a reponse to, as it shows you fail to understand the motivation behind many people who deny the holocasut, which was explained for you in the video.

So I am not even going to entertain your stupidity on this.

Maybe Cass, may feel like doing so

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:09 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

No, I do not. I've accepted what I've been told or what I've read about it. However, I haven't done any other research into the accuracy of that.

You're talking about one person and their motives, and you're talking about the opinion of others as to his motives. There are others who deny the Holocaust, and you can't speak for all of them.

I have done plenty of research, as Cass has also

OMG, your last point does not even warrant a reponse to, as it shows you fail to understand the motivation behind many people who deny the holocasut, which was explained for you in the video.

So I am not even going to entertain your stupidity on this.

Maybe Cass, may feel like doing so

Resorting to abuse already Didge? Maybe I should leave you to Quill and his accusations that you're racist. I'm not interested in what research Cass has done either. No offence to her but she's not even here.


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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:11 am

I have some other thoughts generally - nothing to do with Didge.

Even if Holocaust denial is antisemetic, so what? It's not illegal to be antisemitic. Likewise, it's not illegal to be racist. Would someone go to prison for saying that slavery in the US didn't happen? Would they go to prison for saying that there is no racism against black people?

Why then should someone go to prison for saying that the Holocaust didn't happen?

I know someone who openly admitted to being racist against black people. It didn't bother her to be called racist.

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:12 am

How is it abusive to be factual that you are indeed ignorant to the motivation of many Holocaust deniers.

You evidently just proved that.

Hence on this topic, you are stupid

Now I am done trying to help you understand that.

If you want remain in ignorance of this, that is your choice.

Cheers

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:14 am

Didge wrote:How is it abusive to be factual that you are indeed ignorant to the motivation of many Holocaust deniers.

You evidently just proved that.

Hence on this topic, you are stupid

Now I am done trying to help you understand that.

If you want remain in ignorance of this, that is your choice.

Cheers

Bye. Maybe someone else will post about this and actually address the points I made .

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Re: Breaking the Silence…with Holocaust Deniers?

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:17 am

Oh and for the record, I do not believe holocaust denial should be a criminal offense. Its far better to expose such people as frauds, just as Deborah did with David Irving.


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