Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

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Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:35 am

First topic message reminder :

Yahoo News wrote:Sheriff: At Least 17 Dead In Florida High School Shooting; Ex-Student In Custody, ID’d  
Lisa de Moraes•February 14, 2018

UPDATED, 3:25 PM: Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said at least 17 people are dead and more than a dozen wounded in the school shooting in Parkland, FL. He said 12 bodies were found inside the school, two outside the building, another on a street near the school and two died at a hospital.

The suspect has been identified as Nikolas Cruz, 19, a former student at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School who was expelled for disciplinary reasons. He is in police custody. Israel said police have recovered an AR-15 assault rifle they believe was used in the attack and that the suspect had “multiple magazines.”

PREVIOUSLY, 2:13 PM: Campus building are not safe to be cleared until the SWAT team on site says it’s safe and clear, he added. Students are still in the school building; Israel instructed parents looking for their child to go to a nearby Marriott, to which students are being transported as they are evacuated.

A male suspect, about 18 years old is in custody; he was apprehended without incident off campus in a nearby community, Israel said. The shooting suspect was, at various times during the shooting, outside and inside the building. He is a former student at the school.

Fox News Channel’s Shep Smith reported the suspect, who “knew the lay of the land” at the campus, was taken to a local hospital and was  “being treated for we don’t know,” and will then be taken for processing.

TV news outlets abruptly dropped Washington-centric coverage Wednesday afternoon when a shooter attacked students and staff at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida on Wednesday afternoon. Quick word of at least 20 shot in the school or on the campus triggered TV news pundit talk of Columbine High School massacre of 1999 in which 12 students and one teacher were murdered, and another 24 injured, by two heavily armed students who then committed suicide.

Cable news networks showed helicopter footage of ambulances swarming the area, victims being tended to on sidewalks, and a SWAT team heading with weapons drawn toward the high school attended by about 3K students. Dozens of teens could be seen running or walking from the building, some with hands raised over their heads to signal they did not have a weapon.

More than an hour after first reports of the shooting, local sheriff tweeted to warning the gunman, who had shot into the school from outside the building, still was at large:

Follow @browardsheriff for latest info on the #stonemanshooting. Shooter still at large.

Multiple students interviewed on CNN said students began running out of the building after someone pulled a fire alarm in the school about 10 minutes before end of school day; one reported they were told over the school’s intercom system to evacuate the building. As they exited, shots were heard,  students told the network affiliate’s reporter.

One distraught mother marveled the network the city had just been named safest place to live in Florida.

White House said Failing Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon had been alerted:

From Deputy Press Secretary Lindsay Walters:

The President has been made aware of the school shooting in Florida. We are monitoring the situation. Our thoughts and prayers are with those affected.

Donald Trump Finally Breaks Silence, Scolds Press For Not Knowing He's "Totally Opposed To Domestic Violence"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tv-networks-jump-florida-high-210531879.html

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:38 am

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Own guns, or don't own guns. I don't care. And no amount of your whining will ever make me care if you own guns.  

Which implicitly admits to No amount of Whining ever making you care about Kids lives either Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

Cause it's not Guns or No Guns
It's kids can safely go to school or kids get shot at school
Your preference is Kids getting Shot at school

No, my preference is no one gets shot unless they are harming another individual. Nice try though.

So again. Own guns, or don't own guns. I don't care what you do.  

In REALITY that is just not an option

this comes back to being sensible grown ups
You can only pick based on real options Wink

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:13 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

No, my preference is no one gets shot unless they are harming another individual. Nice try though.

So again. Own guns, or don't own guns. I don't care what you do.  

In REALITY that is just not an option

this comes back to being sensible grown ups
You can only pick based on real options Wink

I'm pretty sure you could refrain from shooting people, that's why I don't care how many guns you have.

I don't believe in collective judgement on the many because of the actions of the few.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:30 pm

Maddog wrote:
I'm pretty sure you could refrain from shooting people, that's why I don't care how many guns you have.  

I don't believe in collective judgement on the many because of the actions of the few.

I don't know if it's collective judgment as much as simple prudence.  Really, all it takes is one misguided soul, and you've got 17 dead, or whatever incident you wish to raise.  But the more guns that are out there, the greater the chances that the 'one' will come upon a firearm.

So you are not judging the many, or even blaming them.  You are just minimizing opportunities.  Any focus on the individual (anger, mental illness, whatever), as a program, doesn't cut it.  We just need to lower the chances by minimizing the availability of guns.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:33 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:
I'm pretty sure you could refrain from shooting people, that's why I don't care how many guns you have.  

I don't believe in collective judgement on the many because of the actions of the few.

I don't know if it's judgment as much as simple prudence.  Really, all it takes is one misguided soul, and you've got 17 dead, or whatever incident you wish to raise.  But the more guns that are out there, the greater the chances that the 'one' will come upon a firearm.

So you are not judging the many, or even blaming them.  You are just minimizing opportunities.  Any focus on the individual (anger, mental illness, whatever), as a program, doesn't cut it.  We just need to lower the chances.

Your treating gun owners like conservatives treat Muslims. They figure it only takes one crazy Muslim so you may as well ban all of them

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:44 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I don't know if it's judgment as much as simple prudence.  Really, all it takes is one misguided soul, and you've got 17 dead, or whatever incident you wish to raise.  But the more guns that are out there, the greater the chances that the 'one' will come upon a firearm.

So you are not judging the many, or even blaming them.  You are just minimizing opportunities.  Any focus on the individual (anger, mental illness, whatever), as a program, doesn't cut it.  We just need to lower the chances.

Your treating gun owners like conservatives treat Muslims.  They figure it only takes one crazy Muslim so you may as well ban all of them  

With Muslims, you bring in countervailing issues of human rights. Owning a gun is not intrinsically a human right (though it is a constitutional right), insofar as many people can and do go through their lives without one.

Guns are not related to dignity or equality or any other fundamental quality of being. Firearms are mere chattel. Frankly, though I'm sure you didn't mean it like that, it's kind of insulting to equate an ethnicity, identity or a religion to chattel.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:01 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Gun deaths also vary dramatically by type. The vast majority (77 percent) of white gun deaths are suicides; less than one in five (19 percent) is a homicide. These figures are nearly opposite in the black population, where only 14 percent of gun deaths are suicides but 82 percent are homicides:

The firearm homicide rate among black men aged 20-29 is about 89 per 100,000.To put that fact in some international perspective, in Honduras—the country with the highest recorded homicide rate—there were 90.4 intentional murders per 100,000 people in 2012. That includes all means, not just firearm homicides.


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2015/12/15/guns-and-race-the-different-worlds-of-black-and-white-americans/



yep that 19% alone is 5 times higher than in the UK, Aren't You glad you have strong gun control laws tommy cheers cheers cheers

And even if you take the demographics of just white America it is still over double Cool


Criminals still get guns... it is only the vast majority of people here who are responsible law abiding citizens who are unable to have/get guns...


And although gun crime/murders are low, it is knife crime/murders/stabbings that are massively high instead... even though there are laws against carrying/using knives on the streets in public and using them as weapons to attack!!!



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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Your treating gun owners like conservatives treat Muslims.  They figure it only takes one crazy Muslim so you may as well ban all of them  

With  Muslims, you bring in countervailing issues of human rights.  Owning a gun is not intrinsically a human right (though it is a constitutional right), insofar as many people can and do go through their lives without one.

Guns are not related to dignity or equality or any other fundamental quality of being.  Firearms are mere chattel. Frankly, though I'm sure you didn't mean it like that, it's kind of insulting to equate an ethnicity, identity or a religion to chattel.

No person, from one country has a right to live in another.  

But my point is unchanged and 100 percent accurate even if it makes you uncomfortable by exposing your hipocracy. Conservatives look at Muslim immigrants the same way liberals look at gun owners. The majority are judged based on the actions of tiny minority.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:14 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

yep that 19% alone is 5 times higher than in the UK, Aren't You glad you have strong gun control laws tommy cheers cheers cheers

And even if you take the demographics of just white America it is still over double Cool


Criminals still get guns... it is only the vast majority of people here who are responsible law abiding citizens who are unable to have/get guns...


And although gun crime/murders are low, it is knife crime/murders/stabbings that are massively high instead... even though there are laws against carrying/using knives on the streets in public and using them as weapons to attack!!!

But that's a function of the availability of guns, something that would not be so were guns restricted at the point of purchase.

The reason why the UK has such a good record on shootings is that it is not a gun culture. Here, guns are toys, and everyone wants them. Alas, some of them go out the back door, and contribute to that large pool of ownerless firearms, where crooks are supplied. It begins with availability and supply.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:21 pm

Also... this is a very interesting read for those who are trying to compare murder rates of the US to UK... as it explains very well that the official figures are collected in different ways in both countries... and therefore incomparable like for like...


Bottom line is that UK rate is much higher than official figures claim... possibly higher than the US is argued here...


http://rboatright.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/comparing-england-or-uk-murder-rates.html



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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:24 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

With  Muslims, you bring in countervailing issues of human rights.  Owning a gun is not intrinsically a human right (though it is a constitutional right), insofar as many people can and do go through their lives without one.

Guns are not related to dignity or equality or any other fundamental quality of being.  Firearms are mere chattel. Frankly, though I'm sure you didn't mean it like that, it's kind of insulting to equate an ethnicity, identity or a religion to chattel.

No person, from one country has a right to live in another.  

Sure they do. All you need to do is take it. We did it with the Louisiana Purchase, Oregon Territory, California and New Mexico. Y'all did it with Texas. Israel is doing it with Palestine.

Maddog wrote:But my point is unchanged and 100 percent accurate even if it makes you uncomfortable by exposing your hipocracy. Conservatives look at Muslim immigrants the same way liberals look at gun owners. The majority are judged based on the actions of tiny minority.

Nonsense. Guns are chattel. Owning one is not an intrinsic right. Muslims are a culture...their right to their values, beliefs and symbols are intrinsic.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:43 pm

Americans are a nation of people with their own culture... and their right to their values, beliefs and symbols are intrinsic... including their right to bear arms as enshrined in their constitution...!


Also... it sounds very much like you are defending a Muslim as having a right to commit terrorist atrocities as being somehow part of their cultural identity...?



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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:51 pm



Also... there are plenty of countries with relaxed gun control laws and high levels of gun ownership among the populations... but with very low murder rates...!



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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:52 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Americans are a nation of people with their own culture... and their right to their values, beliefs and symbols are intrinsic... including their right to bear arms as enshrined in their constitution...!


Also... it sounds very much like you are defending a Muslim as having a right to commit terrorist atrocities as being somehow part of their cultural identity...?

Being Muslim is not synonymous with terrorist atrocities. Southerners in America are more related to terrorist atrocities through their social club, the KKK.

But one of the founding principles of America was tolerance. So if you find tolerance for Muslims distasteful, blame the founders.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:48 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

No person, from one country has a right to live in another.  

Sure they do.  All you need to do is take it.  We did it with the Louisiana Purchase, Oregon Territory, California and New Mexico.  Y'all did it with Texas.  Israel is doing it with Palestine.

Maddog wrote:But my point is unchanged and 100 percent accurate even if it makes you uncomfortable by exposing your hipocracy. Conservatives look at Muslim immigrants the same way liberals look at gun owners. The majority are judged based on the actions of tiny minority.

Nonsense.  Guns are chattel.  Owning one is not an intrinsic right.  Muslims are a culture...their right to their values, beliefs and symbols are intrinsic.

Are gun owners people? Smile

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:49 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Americans are a nation of people with their own culture... and their right to their values, beliefs and symbols are intrinsic... including their right to bear arms as enshrined in their constitution...!


Also... it sounds very much like you are defending a Muslim as having a right to commit terrorist atrocities as being somehow part of their cultural identity...?

Being Muslim is not synonymous with terrorist atrocities.  Southerners in America are more related to terrorist atrocities through their social club, the KKK.

But one of the founding principles of America was tolerance.  So if you find tolerance for Muslims distasteful, blame the founders.

See, you and Tommy are both statists. Wink

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:26 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Being Muslim is not synonymous with terrorist atrocities.  Southerners in America are more related to terrorist atrocities through their social club, the KKK.

But one of the founding principles of America was tolerance.  So if you find tolerance for Muslims distasteful, blame the founders.

See, you and Tommy are both statists.  Wink


Not necessarily... and irrelevant anyway...


I was just throwing Quills logic back at him!



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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:34 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Maddog wrote:

See, you and Tommy are both statists.  Wink


Not necessarily... and irrelevant anyway...


I was just throwing Quills logic back at him!



The right and the left are both statists. They want powerful governments that protect people. They just disagree on what the threat is.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:38 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Maddog wrote:

See, you and Tommy are both statists.  Wink

Not necessarily... and irrelevant anyway...

I was just throwing Quills logic back at him!

I was doing the same thing for Red. He was saying: "No person, from one country has a right to live in another." Is he not putting the state first, the individual second?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:43 pm

I want small govt and small state control...

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I want small govt and small state control...

What for?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:07 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I want small govt and small state control...

OK.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:34 pm

Didge wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

There are millions of poor white people in the US...


But it is mostly blacks who are the perpetrators of gun murders... and mostly blacks who are the victims...



So why then still do many white poor people kill each other in the US?

More blacks live within relative poverty than whites, hence my point

So why do plenty of white people kill each other?

6 million Jews murdered?

How many Poles and Russians murdered by poor German farmers armed by Nazi Germany?

How many millions of poor Russians, have been murdered by other poor white Russians?

Is this really the idiotic argument you are presenting based on poverty and black people?

Guess we better be continually concerned about white people based on stats eh and your idiotic racially dumb reasoning?


No response from the racially motivated muppet

Quelle surprise

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:50 pm

Waffle...

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:54 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Waffle...


Sorry, did I yet again burst your racist bubble?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:08 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Waffle...

Tommy Monk wrote:I want small govt and small state control...

I'm still waiting, tommy.  What do you want small government and small state control for?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:14 pm

Because I don't want big expensive bureaucratic inefficient govt...


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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:15 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Because I don't want big expensive bureaucratic inefficient govt...

Read the question.  I'll start out generally: what do you want any government for?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:16 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Because I don't want big expensive bureaucratic inefficient govt...



What does that mean?

Only some benefit?

You and not others?

How do you thus deny others you benefit from yourself?

Is this based geographically and not any thing you have done yourself?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:44 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Gun deaths also vary dramatically by type. The vast majority (77 percent) of white gun deaths are suicides; less than one in five (19 percent) is a homicide. These figures are nearly opposite in the black population, where only 14 percent of gun deaths are suicides but 82 percent are homicides:

The firearm homicide rate among black men aged 20-29 is about 89 per 100,000.To put that fact in some international perspective, in Honduras—the country with the highest recorded homicide rate—there were 90.4 intentional murders per 100,000 people in 2012. That includes all means, not just firearm homicides.


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2015/12/15/guns-and-race-the-different-worlds-of-black-and-white-americans/



yep that 19% alone is 5 times higher than in the UK, Aren't You glad you have strong gun control laws tommy cheers cheers cheers

And even if you take the demographics of just white America it is still over double Cool


Criminals still get guns... it is only the vast majority of people here who are responsible law abiding citizens who are unable to have/get guns...


And although gun crime/murders are low, it is knife crime/murders/stabbings that are massively high instead... even though there are laws against carrying/using knives on the streets in public and using them as weapons to attack!!!



there is far less homicides total Gun and knife combined and the USA is Still quite a bit higher than the UK's "massively high" crime Rolling Eyes

Ranking for Violent Crime TOTAL all crimes all weapons
35th United States 49.58
59th Australia 42.55
62nd United Kingdom 41.20
https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:46 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I want small govt and small state control...

no, you don't Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

many times you has expressed desire for the complete OPPOSITE of small government

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:48 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:I want small govt and small state control...

no, you don't Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

many times you has expressed desire for the complete OPPOSITE of small government

Bingo, he has many times.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:39 am

“What I saw was a deputy arrive … take up a position and he never went in,” the sheriff said at a news conference.

Israel said Peterson resigned, and subsequently retired, after Israel suspended him without pay earlier in the day. An investigation into Peterson will continue, the sheriff said.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-shooting-sro-20180222-story.html


He has one fucking job. He was a school resource officer meaning he had an easy gig, but was expected to do one thing in the event something went horribly wrong, and he sat outside pissing his pants.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:09 am

Make no mistake—Peterson's failure to engage the shooter was a monumental error. We don't know whether the SRO would have been able to stop a psychopath armed with an AR-15, but it was his job to try; he might have at least slowed Cruz, thus saving lives. Why are we paying armed guards to keep schools safe if they flee the very danger they are supposed to prevent?

It's difficult to fathom the depths of law enforcement's collective failure—at every conceivable level—to take any action that might have averted the Parkland tragedy or mitigated the death toll. The FBI didn't follow-up on tips about Cruz's verified instability. Broward County didn't take preventative measures despite receiving more than 20 calls about Cruz over the years. And the officer whose job it was to keep kids safe stood idly by while they were murdered—even though one of the big lessons of Columbine was that lone officers should rush toward the sound of gunfire in school shooting scenarios.

At the very least, these revelations about the abysmal incompetence of law enforcement should shake our confidence that more cops, more security, and more surveillance are the solution to mass shootings—and that the corresponding civil liberties tradeoffs are remotely justified.

https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/22/parkland-stoneman-school-resource-office

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:23 am

Maddog wrote:Make no mistake—Peterson's failure to engage the shooter was a monumental error. We don't know whether the SRO would have been able to stop a psychopath armed with an AR-15, but it was his job to try; he might have at least slowed Cruz, thus saving lives. Why are we paying armed guards to keep schools safe if they flee the very danger they are supposed to prevent?

It's difficult to fathom the depths of law enforcement's collective failure—at every conceivable level—to take any action that might have averted the Parkland tragedy or mitigated the death toll. The FBI didn't follow-up on tips about Cruz's verified instability. Broward County didn't take preventative measures despite receiving more than 20 calls about Cruz over the years. And the officer whose job it was to keep kids safe stood idly by while they were murdered—even though one of the big lessons of Columbine was that lone officers should rush toward the sound of gunfire in school shooting scenarios.

At the very least, these revelations about the abysmal incompetence of law enforcement should shake our confidence that more cops, more security, and more surveillance are the solution to mass shootings—and that the corresponding civil liberties tradeoffs are remotely justified.

https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/22/parkland-stoneman-school-resource-office

so Some poorly paid security guard has to die so Maddog can keep his toys

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:28 am

Maddog wrote:Make no mistake—Peterson's failure to engage the shooter was a monumental error. We don't know whether the SRO would have been able to stop a psychopath armed with an AR-15, but it was his job to try; he might have at least slowed Cruz, thus saving lives. Why are we paying armed guards to keep schools safe if they flee the very danger they are supposed to prevent?

It's difficult to fathom the depths of law enforcement's collective failure—at every conceivable level—to take any action that might have averted the Parkland tragedy or mitigated the death toll. The FBI didn't follow-up on tips about Cruz's verified instability. Broward County didn't take preventative measures despite receiving more than 20 calls about Cruz over the years. And the officer whose job it was to keep kids safe stood idly by while they were murdered—even though one of the big lessons of Columbine was that lone officers should rush toward the sound of gunfire in school shooting scenarios.

At the very least, these revelations about the abysmal incompetence of law enforcement should shake our confidence that more cops, more security, and more surveillance are the solution to mass shootings—and that the corresponding civil liberties tradeoffs are remotely justified.

https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/22/parkland-stoneman-school-resource-office

Rolling Eyes

The sad fact is that many of those security guards in the USA are only on minimum award wages for their job and state..         *  Security guards are not police officers  !  *

Most are not paid, nor trained and qualified, to sacrifice their own lives, but are only required to stop an assailant if possible, to alert staff and authorities, and try to stop trouble if possible..

If you want a well trained, qualified and armoured guard with a .40 cal. Glock to go in and blow away these shooters,  you will fucking well be prepared to pay for it !

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:02 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:Make no mistake—Peterson's failure to engage the shooter was a monumental error. We don't know whether the SRO would have been able to stop a psychopath armed with an AR-15, but it was his job to try; he might have at least slowed Cruz, thus saving lives. Why are we paying armed guards to keep schools safe if they flee the very danger they are supposed to prevent?

It's difficult to fathom the depths of law enforcement's collective failure—at every conceivable level—to take any action that might have averted the Parkland tragedy or mitigated the death toll. The FBI didn't follow-up on tips about Cruz's verified instability. Broward County didn't take preventative measures despite receiving more than 20 calls about Cruz over the years. And the officer whose job it was to keep kids safe stood idly by while they were murdered—even though one of the big lessons of Columbine was that lone officers should rush toward the sound of gunfire in school shooting scenarios.

At the very least, these revelations about the abysmal incompetence of law enforcement should shake our confidence that more cops, more security, and more surveillance are the solution to mass shootings—and that the corresponding civil liberties tradeoffs are remotely justified.

https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/22/parkland-stoneman-school-resource-office

Rolling Eyes

The sad fact is that many of those security guards in the USA are only on minimum award wages for their job and state..         *  Security guards are not police officers  !  *

Most are not paid, nor trained and qualified, to sacrifice their own lives, but are only required to stop an assailant if possible, to alert staff and authorities, and try to stop trouble if possible..

If you want a well trained, qualified and armoured guard with a .40 cal. Glock to go in and blow away these shooters,  you will fucking well be prepared to pay for it !

Hes a cop. And he was making over 75 grand a year.

This is one of those times you could learn something by asking questions.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:29 am

Maddog wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Rolling Eyes

The sad fact is that many of those security guards in the USA are only on minimum award wages for their job and state..         *  Security guards are not police officers  !  *

Most are not paid, nor trained and qualified, to sacrifice their own lives, but are only required to stop an assailant if possible, to alert staff and authorities, and try to stop trouble if possible..

If you want a well trained, qualified and armoured guard with a .40 cal. Glock to go in and blow away these shooters,  you will fucking well be prepared to pay for it !

Hes a cop. And he was making over 75 grand a year.  

This is one of those times you could learn something by asking questions.  

You get what you pay for. As I've said, I would take no less than $1-million/year to be an armed teacher. I think that's reasonable.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Lurker on Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:15 pm

Damn republican gun worshipers have shown zero sympathy for the murdered kids.


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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:28 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Hes a cop. And he was making over 75 grand a year.  

This is one of those times you could learn something by asking questions.  

You get what you pay for.  As I've said, I would take no less than $1-million/year to be an armed teacher.  I think that's reasonable.

You're not worth a 10 bucks. But most police officers can at least attempt their job.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:34 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

You get what you pay for.  As I've said, I would take no less than $1-million/year to be an armed teacher.  I think that's reasonable.

You're not worth a 10 bucks. But most police officers can at least attempt their job.  

Get back to your report.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:02 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


Criminals still get guns... it is only the vast majority of people here who are responsible law abiding citizens who are unable to have/get guns...


And although gun crime/murders are low, it is knife crime/murders/stabbings that are massively high instead... even though there are laws against carrying/using knives on the streets in public and using them as weapons to attack!!!



there is far less homicides total Gun and knife combined and the USA is Still quite a bit higher than the UK's "massively high" crime Rolling Eyes

Ranking for Violent Crime TOTAL all crimes all weapons
35th United States 49.58
59th Australia 42.55  
62nd United Kingdom 41.20  
https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp


I take it you didn't read this earlier post of mine...



...this is a very interesting read for those who are trying to compare murder rates of the US to UK... as it explains very well that the official figures are collected in different ways in both countries... and therefore incomparable like for like...


Bottom line is that UK rate is much higher than official figures claim... possibly higher than the US is argued here...


http://rboatright.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/comparing-england-or-uk-murder-rates.html




I do notice that the stats you posted show 'the overall total of all types of violent crimes'... of which there are many different types... and stats likely to be collated very differently in US than in UK, as explained in above article... although the figures you show are not really that far different for US and UK...


But my point was specifically about there being a high level of knife crime here in UK, where knives are the weapon of choice for the majority of criminals, instead of guns...


Maybe you should look up knife crime/violence/murders stats for UK and compare with US and elsewhere...?


You see... tough restrictions on guns for responsible law abiding citizens doesn't stop criminals getting guns, the criminals still get them and use them... and it doesn't stop criminals committing murder/violent crime either... most just choose a different weapon to use to do so...!



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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:10 pm

Is the uk rate much higher Tommy?

Lets fuck up an idiot that does not know the answers.

As what offcial evidence does Tommy have?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:16 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:I want small govt and small state control...

no, you don't Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

many times you has expressed desire for the complete OPPOSITE of small government


Have I...?


When and how have I ever done that...?



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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:19 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

no, you don't Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

many times you has expressed desire for the complete OPPOSITE of small government


Have I...?


When and how have I ever done that...?




By claiming democracy, when only peop;e voted geographically?

What do I mean here Tommy?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:28 pm

Didge wrote:Is the uk rate much higher Tommy?

Lets fuck up an idiot that does not know the answers.

As what offcial evidence does Tommy have?



UK rate would be much higher if using same method of collating as is used in US... and likewise, the US rate would be much lower if they used the UK method of collating figures...


Read the link...



And I have no idea what you are babbling about in your other post...



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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:34 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Didge wrote:Is the uk rate much higher Tommy?

Lets fuck up an idiot that does not know the answers.

As what offcial evidence does Tommy have?



UK rate would be much higher if using same method of collating as is used in US... and likewise, the US rate would be much lower if they used the UK method of collating figures...
Read the link...
And I have no idea what you are babbling about in your other post...




I have no idea?

Really?

The UK would have higher based on strict gunlaws?

Where is this evidence you have invented on gun deaths?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:46 pm

Lurker wrote:
Damn republican gun worshipers have shown zero sympathy for the murdered kids.



grin angel

Gosford is about a 50 -->>  60 minute drive south of here...

That Anglican minister at the church in that photo' has a bit of a reputation as being outspoken on social and humanitarian issues..

After a local took that photo' and posted it online, apparently it went viral, with over 2.5 million views around the world within the first few hours.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/gosford-anglican-church-asks-when-will-they-love-their-kids-more-than-their-guns/news-story/5ace66b7eb196fd349e517c5477d6bc5

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/good-news/a-bloody-man-should-do-the-right-thing-and-go-to-church/news-story/1f02dea749c651482891a2adb500c8ca

https://www.facebook.com/anggos/

Yet another sign that the American Republican Party's days are numbered, when a little ol' Aussie backwater steals the headlines away from Trump and his NRA owners for the week..

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:54 pm

Didge wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:



UK rate would be much higher if using same method of collating as is used in US... and likewise, the US rate would be much lower if they used the UK method of collating figures...
Read the link...
And I have no idea what you are babbling about in your other post...


I have no idea?

Really?

The UK would have higher based on strict gunlaws?

Where is this evidence you have invented on gun deaths?

Laughing

I think poor little Tommy has mixed up his Wishlist with his actual facts.

Criminal murder rates overall (i.e. per 100,000 people) are still 20% higher in the USA, no matter how Tommy tries to apply his claimed geniusosity to the subject, while the rate of gun deaths is more than five times higher than Oz, and far higher again than for the UK..

Poor little Tommy just keeps digging himself in deeper and deeper...

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:04 am


I take it you didn't read this earlier post of mine...



...this is a very interesting read for those who are trying to compare murder rates of the US to UK... as it explains very well that the official figures are collected in different ways in both countries... and therefore incomparable like for like...


Bottom line is that UK rate is much higher than official figures claim... possibly higher than the US is argued here...



http://rboatright.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/comparing-england-or-uk-murder-rates.html




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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:21 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
I take it you didn't read this earlier post of mine...



...this is a very interesting read for those who are trying to compare murder rates of the US to UK... as it explains very well that the official figures are collected in different ways in both countries... and therefore incomparable like for like...


Bottom line is that UK rate is much higher than official figures claim... possibly higher than the US is argued here...



http://rboatright.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/comparing-england-or-uk-murder-rates.html





A blog is your evidence, not facts, but an opinion?

PMSL

Do you have something actualy accurate with evidence dummy?

Bottom line, you are a gullible idiot

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