Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

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Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:35 am

First topic message reminder :

Yahoo News wrote:Sheriff: At Least 17 Dead In Florida High School Shooting; Ex-Student In Custody, ID’d  
Lisa de Moraes•February 14, 2018

UPDATED, 3:25 PM: Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said at least 17 people are dead and more than a dozen wounded in the school shooting in Parkland, FL. He said 12 bodies were found inside the school, two outside the building, another on a street near the school and two died at a hospital.

The suspect has been identified as Nikolas Cruz, 19, a former student at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School who was expelled for disciplinary reasons. He is in police custody. Israel said police have recovered an AR-15 assault rifle they believe was used in the attack and that the suspect had “multiple magazines.”

PREVIOUSLY, 2:13 PM: Campus building are not safe to be cleared until the SWAT team on site says it’s safe and clear, he added. Students are still in the school building; Israel instructed parents looking for their child to go to a nearby Marriott, to which students are being transported as they are evacuated.

A male suspect, about 18 years old is in custody; he was apprehended without incident off campus in a nearby community, Israel said. The shooting suspect was, at various times during the shooting, outside and inside the building. He is a former student at the school.

Fox News Channel’s Shep Smith reported the suspect, who “knew the lay of the land” at the campus, was taken to a local hospital and was  “being treated for we don’t know,” and will then be taken for processing.

TV news outlets abruptly dropped Washington-centric coverage Wednesday afternoon when a shooter attacked students and staff at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida on Wednesday afternoon. Quick word of at least 20 shot in the school or on the campus triggered TV news pundit talk of Columbine High School massacre of 1999 in which 12 students and one teacher were murdered, and another 24 injured, by two heavily armed students who then committed suicide.

Cable news networks showed helicopter footage of ambulances swarming the area, victims being tended to on sidewalks, and a SWAT team heading with weapons drawn toward the high school attended by about 3K students. Dozens of teens could be seen running or walking from the building, some with hands raised over their heads to signal they did not have a weapon.

More than an hour after first reports of the shooting, local sheriff tweeted to warning the gunman, who had shot into the school from outside the building, still was at large:

Follow @browardsheriff for latest info on the #stonemanshooting. Shooter still at large.

Multiple students interviewed on CNN said students began running out of the building after someone pulled a fire alarm in the school about 10 minutes before end of school day; one reported they were told over the school’s intercom system to evacuate the building. As they exited, shots were heard,  students told the network affiliate’s reporter.

One distraught mother marveled the network the city had just been named safest place to live in Florida.

White House said Failing Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon had been alerted:

From Deputy Press Secretary Lindsay Walters:

The President has been made aware of the school shooting in Florida. We are monitoring the situation. Our thoughts and prayers are with those affected.

Donald Trump Finally Breaks Silence, Scolds Press For Not Knowing He's "Totally Opposed To Domestic Violence"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tv-networks-jump-florida-high-210531879.html

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:22 am

And all people in New Hampshire are safer than people in the UK, yet folks in New Hampshire have almost no gun laws. You don't even have to have a license to open carry there.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:33 am

"The only restrictions in regards to licenses or permits are typically for carrying a concealed gun. New Hampshire is a slight exception to this rule. Like other states with weak gun laws, New Hampshire does not require a permit or license to possess or purchase any sort of firearm. Registration is also not necessary. The slight alteration found in New Hampshire's gun laws is in regards to a concealed gun. A concealed handgun in the state does not require a permit, however, it will require a specific license in certain situations."


Yet the murder rate is virtually the same as Australia. Shocked

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:28 am

Maddog wrote:"The only restrictions in regards to licenses or permits are typically for carrying a concealed gun. New Hampshire is a slight exception to this rule. Like other states with weak gun laws, New Hampshire does not require a permit or license to possess or purchase any sort of firearm. Registration is also not necessary. The slight alteration found in New Hampshire's gun laws is in regards to a concealed gun. A concealed handgun in the state does not require a permit, however, it will require a specific license in certain situations."


Yet the murder rate is virtually the same as Australia.  Shocked  

no it's not
it's 5 times lower
only 20% of the US rate
that's NOT almost the same

and WE CAN DO THAT TOO
we can take a safer area and Guess what it will be LOWER than New Hampshire

You are straight up Lying to yourself now to try and Justify your madness Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:29 am



http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/this-cartoon-about-the-florida-high-school-shooting-has-gone-viral/news-story/07eac3fd890fb882261ca40154121344

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:37 am

New Hampshire 0.9 compare with 4.5 for the total USA

Australian Capital Territory 0.8 with 0.9 for the total of Australia

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:17 am

Maddog wrote:"The only restrictions in regards to licenses or permits are typically for carrying a concealed gun. New Hampshire is a slight exception to this rule. Like other states with weak gun laws, New Hampshire does not require a permit or license to possess or purchase any sort of firearm. Registration is also not necessary. The slight alteration found in New Hampshire's gun laws is in regards to a concealed gun. A concealed handgun in the state does not require a permit, however, it will require a specific license in certain situations."


Yet the murder rate is virtually the same as Australia.  Shocked  

Rolling Eyes

The overall gun murder rate for the USA is over 400% higher than that in Australia;  (or, just over five times as high, for those who failed maths at school..).

To find similar rates to those in Australia, Maddog has had to resort to cherry_picking figures for one of America's smallest states, and maybe next some individual cities..

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:49 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

You're certainly not free if you feel you need a gun.

Nobody needs a gun. Then again nobody needs a whiney little bitch, yet here you are. Rolling Eyes

"Whiney little bitch"? Now we begin to see the array of southern values. Bitch = woman, perhaps wife. Whiney = says southern man just before he slaps his woman. All while discussing guns.

So, here we have the collection of values: southern -> love guns -> hates whiney female -> woman abuser.


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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:49 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:"The only restrictions in regards to licenses or permits are typically for carrying a concealed gun. New Hampshire is a slight exception to this rule. Like other states with weak gun laws, New Hampshire does not require a permit or license to possess or purchase any sort of firearm. Registration is also not necessary. The slight alteration found in New Hampshire's gun laws is in regards to a concealed gun. A concealed handgun in the state does not require a permit, however, it will require a specific license in certain situations."


Yet the murder rate is virtually the same as Australia.  Shocked  

Rolling Eyes

The overall gun murder rate for the USA is over 400% higher than that in Australia;  (or, just over five times as high, for those who failed maths at school..).

To find similar rates to those in Australia, Maddog has had to resort to cherry_picking figures for one of America's smallest states, and maybe next some individual cities..

Smaller states with the most liberal gun laws. Wink

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:50 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Nobody needs a gun. Then again nobody needs a whiney little bitch, yet here you are. Rolling Eyes

"Whiney little bitch"?  Now we begin to see the array of southern values.  Bitch = woman, perhaps wife.  Whiney = says southern man just before he slaps his woman.  All while discussing guns.

So, here we have the collection of values: southern -> love guns -> hates whiney female -> woman abuser.


Oh look. Another whiney, little bitch. Wink

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:08 pm

Interesting sidelight: Parkland Fla. went overwhelmingly for Trump in the 2016 election. Florida is one of the most gun friendly states in the US. Remember Trayvon Martin lived (and died) in Florida.

Is God punishing Floridians?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:10 pm

Original Quill wrote:Interesting sidelight: Parkland Fla. went overwhelmingly for Trump in the 2016 election.  Florida is one of the most gun friendly states in the US.  Remember Trayvon Martin lived (and died) in Florida.

Is God punishing Floridians?


Not as gun friendly as New Hampshire, and NH has the lowest murder rate in the country. tongue

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:14 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Interesting sidelight: Parkland Fla. went overwhelmingly for Trump in the 2016 election.  Florida is one of the most gun friendly states in the US.  Remember Trayvon Martin lived (and died) in Florida.

Is God punishing Floridians?


Not as gun friendly as New Hampshire, and NH has the lowest murder rate in the country. tongue  


So relative poverty, plus easy access to guns, ensure high levels of death, correct?

So the combination, born both from selfish stupidity, ensures a high murder gun rate?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:16 pm

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:


Not as gun friendly as New Hampshire, and NH has the lowest murder rate in the country. tongue  


So relative poverty, plus easy access to guns, ensure high levels of death, correct?

So the combination, born both from selfish stupidity, ensures a high murder gun rate?

Huh?

NH is not poor at all.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:19 pm

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:


So relative poverty, plus easy access to guns, ensure high levels of death, correct?

So the combination, born both from selfish stupidity, ensures a high murder gun rate?

Huh?

NH is not poor at all.


I see the point went over your head

I said a combination of relative poverty and access to guns, did I not?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:32 pm

This proves my point Maddog, that you do not critically think, even more so at your own beliefs.

My first post argued in your favour, that it takes a combination of both in order for their to be high levels of gun deaths.

A Place like NH has not the first part of this combination.

What I was also trying to point out is selfishness needs are at the fore front of both.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:36 pm

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Huh?

NH is not poor at all.


I see the point went over your head

I said a combination of relative poverty and access to guns, did I not?

Poverty does have some bearing on crime. The poorer neighborhoods and areas typically have higher crime rates.

But access is more complicated. If you mean legal access, then the answer is no. But because poverty stricken areas often have illegal access, then I can see that being a factor.

However, if you look at the 10 states with the lowest murder rates in the US, it's a mixture of types of states with different levels of wealth and poverty.


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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:37 pm

Didge wrote:This proves my point Maddog, that you do not critically think, even more so at your own beliefs.

My first post argued in your favour, that it takes a combination of both in order for their to be high levels of gun deaths.

A Place like NH has not the first part of this combination.

What I was also trying to point out is selfishness needs are at the fore front of both.

Or, your posts are not as clear as you think they they are. Wink

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:42 pm

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:This proves my point Maddog, that you do not critically think, even more so at your own beliefs.

My first post argued in your favour, that it takes a combination of both in order for their to be high levels of gun deaths.

A Place like NH has not the first part of this combination.

What I was also trying to point out is selfishness needs are at the fore front of both.

Or, your posts are not as clear as you think they they are.  Wink


Okay, explain to me how it was not clear based on the first sentence mate?

I am all ears, based on wanting to understand if i can explain something better?

Plus, I did also have to explain.

Or was it, you can be like me and at times not read something properly, by then jumping the gun?

Its why part of me is very pro-restricting access to guns for anyone, but why I have not settled on any side, when I know other factors play a part.

Which means i critically look constantly at all my views on this.



Cool

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:46 pm

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:


I see the point went over your head

I said a combination of relative poverty and access to guns, did I not?

Poverty does have some bearing on crime. The poorer neighborhoods and areas typically have higher crime rates.

But access is more complicated. If you mean legal access, then the answer is no. But because poverty stricken areas often have illegal access, then I can see that being a factor.

However, if you look at the 10 states with the lowest murder rates in the US, it's a mixture of types of states with different levels of wealth and poverty.

 


Relative poverty has more an impact on crime..

People can live in the poorest areas in the world, but where many are also poor crime is low.

Hence relative poverty

Now somebody is supplying the Illegal guns and they are often obtaining them from legal means. Which means the law is clearly not restricting the access people have to guns. As there is an illegal trade. This trade often comes from the legal trade.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:48 pm

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Or, your posts are not as clear as you think they they are.  Wink


Okay, explain to me how it was not clear based on the first sentence mate?

I am all ears, based on wanting to understand if i can explain something better?

Plus, I did also have to explain.

Or was it, you can be like me and at times not read something properly, by then jumping the gun?

Its why part of me is very pro-restricting access to guns for anyone, but why I have not settled on any side, when I know other factors play a part.

Which means i critically look constantly at all my views on this.



Cool

I re-read it. Cool

It made more sense after a few times.

In any event, access to guns can have more than one meaning. A 16 year old Chicago may have access to guns, but it's all illegal access.

Mexico bans almost all weapons, yet access is readily available there. That is down to poverty and corruption, which usually go hand in hand.

California has relative poverty I guess, with limited legal access, and less limited illegal access. It doesn't have what one would call a low murder rate by US standards.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:51 pm

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:


Okay, explain to me how it was not clear based on the first sentence mate?

I am all ears, based on wanting to understand if i can explain something better?

Plus, I did also have to explain.

Or was it, you can be like me and at times not read something properly, by then jumping the gun?

Its why part of me is very pro-restricting access to guns for anyone, but why I have not settled on any side, when I know other factors play a part.

Which means i critically look constantly at all my views on this.



Cool

I re-read it. Cool

It made more sense after a few times.

In any event, access to guns can have more than one meaning. A 16 year old Chicago may have access to guns, but it's all illegal access.

Mexico bans almost all weapons, yet access is readily available there. That is down to poverty and corruption, which usually go hand in hand.

California has relative poverty I guess, with limited legal access, and less limited illegal access.  It doesn't have what one would call a low murder rate by US standards.  


But this is not Mexico and also Mexico is a mare with gun crimes.

How on earth is that something to compare on as if to say: "Hey the illegal trade is there, and our gun homicides are less"

Is that not actually proving the problem with this combo.

You really are not seeing the bigger picture here are you mate.

I am actually arguing now more so on your side and you have still not grasped this yet..

As what is the first point to look to resolve?

You still need to combat the second, but what first here is needed?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:55 pm

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I re-read it. Cool

It made more sense after a few times.

In any event, access to guns can have more than one meaning. A 16 year old Chicago may have access to guns, but it's all illegal access.

Mexico bans almost all weapons, yet access is readily available there. That is down to poverty and corruption, which usually go hand in hand.

California has relative poverty I guess, with limited legal access, and less limited illegal access.  It doesn't have what one would call a low murder rate by US standards.  


But this is not Mexico and also Mexico is a mare with gun crimes.

How on earth is that something to compare on as if to say: "Hey the illegal trade is there, and our gun homicides are less"

Is that not actually proving the problem with this combo.

You really are not seeing the bigger picture here are you mate.

I am actually arguing now more so on your side and you have still not grasped this yet..

As what is the first point to look to resolve?

You still need to combat the second, but what first here is needed?

Sorry, I'm at the office typing a report, while doing this.

I'll give your test more attention when I can concentrate better. tongue

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:01 pm

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:


But this is not Mexico and also Mexico is a mare with gun crimes.

How on earth is that something to compare on as if to say: "Hey the illegal trade is there, and our gun homicides are less"

Is that not actually proving the problem with this combo.

You really are not seeing the bigger picture here are you mate.

I am actually arguing now more so on your side and you have still not grasped this yet..

As what is the first point to look to resolve?

You still need to combat the second, but what first here is needed?

Sorry, I'm at the office typing a report, while doing this.

I'll give your test more attention when I can concentrate better. tongue


lol!

Okay that did make me laugh.

I though would like your thoughts on this

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:47 pm

'...Two-thirds of the more than 33,000 gun deaths that take place in the U.S. every year are suicides...'


'...Black Americans make up 14 percent of the U.S. population but are victims of more than half of all gun homicides...'



And I bet if you check the stats on gun homicides, the vast majority perpetrators are black too...!




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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:48 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:'...Two-thirds of the more than 33,000 gun deaths that take place in the U.S. every year are suicides...'


'...Black Americans make up 14 percent of the U.S. population but are victims of more than half of all gun homicides...'



And I bet if you check the stats on gun homicides, the vast majority perpetrators are black too...!





Which proves my point on relative poverty, does it not?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:00 pm

Didge wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:'...Two-thirds of the more than 33,000 gun deaths that take place in the U.S. every year are suicides...'


'...Black Americans make up 14 percent of the U.S. population but are victims of more than half of all gun homicides...'



And I bet if you check the stats on gun homicides, the vast majority perpetrators are black too...!





No!





Which proves my point on relative poverty, does it not?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:02 pm

Tommy seems stumped??????

I mean, I know history very well

What happened when there was areas of relative poverty in places like New York in the 19th century?

Does that not mean rich idiots created this problem, by treating people as basically slaves?

Come on Tommy?

What were the stats a decade ago or a hundred years ago?

Are you basing this on a few years?

And you wonder why i continually mock your lack of intelligence

Laughing

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:43 pm

Didge wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:'...Two-thirds of the more than 33,000 gun deaths that take place in the U.S. every year are suicides...'


'...Black Americans make up 14 percent of the U.S. population but are victims of more than half of all gun homicides...'



And I bet if you check the stats on gun homicides, the vast majority perpetrators are black too...!





Which proves my point on relative poverty, does it not?

On the black part it does. Blacks are more likely to be poor, therefore more likely to be involved in or victims of crime.

Not sure about suicides. I've never researched it, but my gut tells me it might actually be more prevalent around folks with a little more disposable income.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:54 pm



There are millions of poor white people in the US...


But it is mostly blacks who are the perpetrators of gun murders... and mostly blacks who are the victims...



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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:58 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

There are millions of poor white people in the US...


But it is mostly blacks who are the perpetrators of gun murders... and mostly blacks who are the victims...



Blacks commit more murders based on their percentage of the population, but they don't commit the most murders.

Same goes for being victims of murder, and a myriad of other things.

But, poor whites are fairly well represented in crime statistics too. But as they are rural, I think the lack of density in their surroundings helps keep their numbers down a little.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:10 am

Gun deaths also vary dramatically by type. The vast majority (77 percent) of white gun deaths are suicides; less than one in five (19 percent) is a homicide. These figures are nearly opposite in the black population, where only 14 percent of gun deaths are suicides but 82 percent are homicides:

The firearm homicide rate among black men aged 20-29 is about 89 per 100,000.To put that fact in some international perspective, in Honduras—the country with the highest recorded homicide rate—there were 90.4 intentional murders per 100,000 people in 2012. That includes all means, not just firearm homicides.


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2015/12/15/guns-and-race-the-different-worlds-of-black-and-white-americans/



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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:18 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Gun deaths also vary dramatically by type. The vast majority (77 percent) of white gun deaths are suicides; less than one in five (19 percent) is a homicide. These figures are nearly opposite in the black population, where only 14 percent of gun deaths are suicides but 82 percent are homicides:

The firearm homicide rate among black men aged 20-29 is about 89 per 100,000.To put that fact in some international perspective, in Honduras—the country with the highest recorded homicide rate—there were 90.4 intentional murders per 100,000 people in 2012. That includes all means, not just firearm homicides.


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2015/12/15/guns-and-race-the-different-worlds-of-black-and-white-americans/



That is correct. In terms of percentages, a young black male is as in as much risk as someone in a third world nation, while a young white female is as safe as her counterparts in any developed nation on the earth.

The US does have a demographic that skews are numbers much higher than for the rest of the country.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:17 am

I think you don't get to ask others to die for your right to own a gun if you aren't willing to die for it yourself.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:20 am

Ben Reilly wrote:I think you don't get to ask others to die for your right to own a gun if you aren't willing to die for it yourself.

Who asked anyone to die? I never have. My basic philosophy is to ask nothing of others. That's why I generally support negative rights, and oppose positive rights.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:21 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Gun deaths also vary dramatically by type. The vast majority (77 percent) of white gun deaths are suicides; less than one in five (19 percent) is a homicide. These figures are nearly opposite in the black population, where only 14 percent of gun deaths are suicides but 82 percent are homicides:

The firearm homicide rate among black men aged 20-29 is about 89 per 100,000.To put that fact in some international perspective, in Honduras—the country with the highest recorded homicide rate—there were 90.4 intentional murders per 100,000 people in 2012. That includes all means, not just firearm homicides.


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2015/12/15/guns-and-race-the-different-worlds-of-black-and-white-americans/



yep that 19% alone is 5 times higher than in the UK, Aren't You glad you have strong gun control laws tommy cheers cheers cheers

And even if you take the demographics of just white America it is still over double Cool

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:24 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Gun deaths also vary dramatically by type. The vast majority (77 percent) of white gun deaths are suicides; less than one in five (19 percent) is a homicide. These figures are nearly opposite in the black population, where only 14 percent of gun deaths are suicides but 82 percent are homicides:

The firearm homicide rate among black men aged 20-29 is about 89 per 100,000.To put that fact in some international perspective, in Honduras—the country with the highest recorded homicide rate—there were 90.4 intentional murders per 100,000 people in 2012. That includes all means, not just firearm homicides.


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2015/12/15/guns-and-race-the-different-worlds-of-black-and-white-americans/



yep that 19% alone is 5 times higher than in the UK, Aren't You glad you have strong gun control laws tommy cheers cheers cheers

And even if you take the demographics of just white America it is still over double Cool

You're conflating figures. That 19% only counts white murders. The US murder rate includes all murders, which is 5 times higher than the UK. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:25 am

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:I think you don't get to ask others to die for your right to own a gun if you aren't willing to die for it yourself.

Who asked anyone to die? I never have. My basic philosophy is to ask nothing of others. That's why I generally support negative rights, and oppose positive rights.  

Umm yes you do.

You ask EVERYONE in your society to live under constant threat and Accept that a portion of them will be shot down, and You ask them to Accept they might be shot trying to go to school so you can have guns.

So if you oppose Positive rights then you should oppose the granting of firearms at the cost of basic safety.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:28 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Who asked anyone to die? I never have. My basic philosophy is to ask nothing of others. That's why I generally support negative rights, and oppose positive rights.  

Umm yes you do.

You ask EVERYONE in your society to live under constant threat and Accept that a portion of them will be shot down, and You ask them to Accept they might be shot trying to go to school so you can have guns.

So if you oppose Positive rights then you should oppose the granting of firearms at the cost of basic safety.

No, I don't. I don't care if you have guns, or don't have guns. I'm not asking you to do anything. You are the only one asking someone to do something.

I don't think you know what negative and positive rights are. You may want to google that.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:36 am

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Gun deaths also vary dramatically by type. The vast majority (77 percent) of white gun deaths are suicides; less than one in five (19 percent) is a homicide. These figures are nearly opposite in the black population, where only 14 percent of gun deaths are suicides but 82 percent are homicides:

The firearm homicide rate among black men aged 20-29 is about 89 per 100,000.To put that fact in some international perspective, in Honduras—the country with the highest recorded homicide rate—there were 90.4 intentional murders per 100,000 people in 2012. That includes all means, not just firearm homicides.


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2015/12/15/guns-and-race-the-different-worlds-of-black-and-white-americans/



yep that 19% alone is 5 times higher than in the UK, Aren't You glad you have strong gun control laws tommy cheers cheers cheers

And even if you take the demographics of just white America it is still over double Cool

You're conflating figures. That 19% only counts white murders. The US murder rate includes all murders, which is 5 times higher than the UK. Rolling Eyes  

from Tommy's link

firearm deaths accounted for over 11 percent of all years of potential life lost among the black population, but less than 6 percent of all years of potential life lost among the white population.

in the 2013 in the UK
144 deaths by firearms TOTAL
out of 506,790 deaths
that only 2.8%
therefore an WHITE American is more than twice as likely to die by guns  

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregistrationsummarytables/2014-07-16


Last edited by veya_victaous on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:40 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:37 am

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
I think you don't get to ask others to die for your right to own a gun if you aren't willing to die for it yourself.

Who asked anyone to die? I never have. My basic philosophy is to ask nothing of others. That's why I generally support negative rights, and oppose positive rights.

Arrow

Yeh, right...

And don't you realise that any clear thinking sensible person will consider that the constant threat of somebody being shot by some rampaging nutter while going about their normal day, whether at school, at work, or simply walking down the street, to be one of your so-called "negative rights"..

By definition, the whole concept of your "negative rights" seems to be the removal of other peoples' "positive rights", so that you can continue to enjoy some anti-social (i.e. negative) activities.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:39 am

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Who asked anyone to die? I never have. My basic philosophy is to ask nothing of others. That's why I generally support negative rights, and oppose positive rights.  

Umm yes you do.

You ask EVERYONE in your society to live under constant threat and Accept that a portion of them will be shot down, and You ask them to Accept they might be shot trying to go to school so you can have guns.

So if you oppose Positive rights then you should oppose the granting of firearms at the cost of basic safety.

No, I don't. I don't care if you have guns, or don't have guns. I'm not asking you to do anything. You are the only one asking someone to do something.

I don't think you know what negative and positive rights are. You may want to google that.  

Your asking for Kids to Forgo Safety, You are asking them to NOT have something far more Important than you guns
I know your selfish and Brainwashed so you struggle to step back and see it from any perspective from yours Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

But all those DEAD kids, had something taken from them by YOU so you can have a goddam hobby

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:49 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

No, I don't. I don't care if you have guns, or don't have guns. I'm not asking you to do anything. You are the only one asking someone to do something.

I don't think you know what negative and positive rights are. You may want to google that.  

Your asking for Kids to Forgo Safety, You are asking them to NOT have something far more Important than you guns
I know your selfish and Brainwashed so you struggle to step back and see it from any perspective from yours Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

But all those DEAD kids, had something taken from them by YOU so you can have a goddam hobby  

Own guns, or don't own guns. I don't care. And no amount of your whining will ever make me care if you own guns.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:24 am

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

Your asking for Kids to Forgo Safety, You are asking them to NOT have something far more Important than you guns
I know your selfish and Brainwashed so you struggle to step back and see it from any perspective from yours Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

But all those DEAD kids, had something taken from them by YOU so you can have a goddam hobby  

Own guns, or don't own guns. I don't care. And no amount of your whining will ever make me care if you own guns.  

And Iran with nuclear weapons?  That's all right with you?  "No amount of your whining will ever make me care if [they] own" them?

I mean, that's really what you are saying. Everyone can have weapons, it doesn't matter.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:45 am

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

No, I don't. I don't care if you have guns, or don't have guns. I'm not asking you to do anything. You are the only one asking someone to do something.

I don't think you know what negative and positive rights are. You may want to google that.  

Your asking for Kids to Forgo Safety, You are asking them to NOT have something far more Important than you guns
I know your selfish and Brainwashed so you struggle to step back and see it from any perspective from yours Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

But all those DEAD kids, had something taken from them by YOU so you can have a goddam hobby  

Own guns, or don't own guns. I don't care. And no amount of your whining will ever make me care if you own guns.  

Which implicitly admits to No amount of Whining ever making you care about Kids lives either Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

Cause it's not Guns or No Guns
It's kids can safely go to school or kids get shot at school
Your preference is Kids getting Shot at school

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:56 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Own guns, or don't own guns. I don't care. And no amount of your whining will ever make me care if you own guns.  

Which implicitly admits to No amount of Whining ever making you care about Kids lives either Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

Cause it's not Guns or No Guns
It's kids can safely go to school or kids get shot at school
Your preference is Kids getting Shot at school

No, my preference is no one gets shot unless they are harming another individual. Nice try though.

So again. Own guns, or don't own guns. I don't care what you do.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:56 am

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Own guns, or don't own guns. I don't care. And no amount of your whining will ever make me care if you own guns.  

And Iran with nuclear weapons?  That's all right with you?  "No amount of your whining will ever make me care if [they] own" them?

I mean, that's really what you are saying.  Everyone can have weapons, it doesn't matter.

Iran has as much right to nuclear weapons as anyone else.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:30 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

There are millions of poor white people in the US...


But it is mostly blacks who are the perpetrators of gun murders... and mostly blacks who are the victims...



So why then still do many white poor people kill each other in the US?

More blacks live within relative poverty than whites, hence my point

So why do plenty of white people kill each other?

6 million Jews murdered?

How many Poles and Russians murdered by poor German farmers armed by Nazi Germany?

How many millions of poor Russians, have been murdered by other poor white Russians?

Is this really the idiotic argument you are presenting based on poverty and black people?

Guess we better be continually concerned about white people based on stats eh and your idiotic racially dumb reasoning?


Last edited by Didge on Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:40 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:36 am




Sorry, it just showed up on my Facebook, which is odd.

Shocked

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:09 am

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:


Which proves my point on relative poverty, does it not?

On the black part it does. Blacks are more likely to be poor, therefore more likely to be involved in or victims of crime.

Not sure about suicides. I've never researched it, but my gut tells me it might actually be more prevalent around folks with a little more disposable income.    

You don't understand what "relative poverty" is do you mate?

As the same point applies within white areas where there is relative poverty.


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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:35 am

Maddog wrote:


Sorry, it just showed up on my Facebook, which is odd.

Shocked

Cause we fixed it and Prove all the Anti-gun Control Claims to be False. Wink
SO Gun nuts hate us Cause we know they are wrong because we already going through it and have solved it.

And Aussies are a Sharing Charitable Culture, So since we have the Solution to the US's gun problems we want to give it to you and save you kids lives
G'Day

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