Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

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Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:35 am

Yahoo News wrote:Sheriff: At Least 17 Dead In Florida High School Shooting; Ex-Student In Custody, ID’d  
Lisa de Moraes•February 14, 2018

UPDATED, 3:25 PM: Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said at least 17 people are dead and more than a dozen wounded in the school shooting in Parkland, FL. He said 12 bodies were found inside the school, two outside the building, another on a street near the school and two died at a hospital.

The suspect has been identified as Nikolas Cruz, 19, a former student at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School who was expelled for disciplinary reasons. He is in police custody. Israel said police have recovered an AR-15 assault rifle they believe was used in the attack and that the suspect had “multiple magazines.”

PREVIOUSLY, 2:13 PM: Campus building are not safe to be cleared until the SWAT team on site says it’s safe and clear, he added. Students are still in the school building; Israel instructed parents looking for their child to go to a nearby Marriott, to which students are being transported as they are evacuated.

A male suspect, about 18 years old is in custody; he was apprehended without incident off campus in a nearby community, Israel said. The shooting suspect was, at various times during the shooting, outside and inside the building. He is a former student at the school.

Fox News Channel’s Shep Smith reported the suspect, who “knew the lay of the land” at the campus, was taken to a local hospital and was  “being treated for we don’t know,” and will then be taken for processing.

TV news outlets abruptly dropped Washington-centric coverage Wednesday afternoon when a shooter attacked students and staff at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida on Wednesday afternoon. Quick word of at least 20 shot in the school or on the campus triggered TV news pundit talk of Columbine High School massacre of 1999 in which 12 students and one teacher were murdered, and another 24 injured, by two heavily armed students who then committed suicide.

Cable news networks showed helicopter footage of ambulances swarming the area, victims being tended to on sidewalks, and a SWAT team heading with weapons drawn toward the high school attended by about 3K students. Dozens of teens could be seen running or walking from the building, some with hands raised over their heads to signal they did not have a weapon.

More than an hour after first reports of the shooting, local sheriff tweeted to warning the gunman, who had shot into the school from outside the building, still was at large:

Follow @browardsheriff for latest info on the #stonemanshooting. Shooter still at large.

Multiple students interviewed on CNN said students began running out of the building after someone pulled a fire alarm in the school about 10 minutes before end of school day; one reported they were told over the school’s intercom system to evacuate the building. As they exited, shots were heard,  students told the network affiliate’s reporter.

One distraught mother marveled the network the city had just been named safest place to live in Florida.

White House said Failing Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon had been alerted:

From Deputy Press Secretary Lindsay Walters:

The President has been made aware of the school shooting in Florida. We are monitoring the situation. Our thoughts and prayers are with those affected.

Donald Trump Finally Breaks Silence, Scolds Press For Not Knowing He's "Totally Opposed To Domestic Violence"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tv-networks-jump-florida-high-210531879.html

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Cass on Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:36 am

Sad Sad Sad

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by HoratioTarr on Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:09 am

Not another one!
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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:40 am

This is why the US guns laws and those pro guns are so utterly dumb

Seriously, who actually needs an assualt rifle?

Or even a gun?

You exponentially increase the risk of such events happening, through such dumb gun laws

I dont care about the legality or illegal reality of how people have guns.

You have a gun culture, mixed with relative poverty and a divide within society, is a recipe for diasaster

I dont care that you think you need to shoot your gun off hunting, to get a buzz.

Get a bow and arrow, its far more sporting and harder.

The gun is a pussy way to hunt and its hardly a challenge

If you really feel the need to get off killing, then do it the hard way in hunting. Get a knife and stalk your prey, or with a spear

Lets see how good you are then

But dont argue you need assualt rifles to hunt, it just proves you cannot hunt and choose the easy pathetic option

Those arguing for assualty rifles due to hunting are pussies. They just cannot face a real challenge hunting

And dont give me any bullshit about self defense. Its because you have gun laws, that make this a vicious cycle.

We rarely have mass shootings in the UK

Its time the US learn to restrict gun laws

Your fucking freedom to want to get a hard on shooting, is costing many innocent lives

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:12 am

Didge wrote:This is why the US guns laws and those pro guns are so utterly dumb

Seriously, who actually needs an assualt rifle?

Or even a gun?

You exponentially increase the risk of such events happening, through such dumb gun laws

I dont care about the legality or illegal reality of how people have guns.

You have a gun culture, mixed with relative poverty and a divide within society, is a recipe for diasaster

I dont care that you think you need to shoot your gun off hunting, to get a buzz.

Get a bow and arrow, its far more sporting and harder.

The gun is a pussy way to hunt and its hardly a challenge

If you really feel the need to get off killing, then do it the hard way in hunting. Get a knife and stalk your prey, or with a spear

Lets see how good you are then

But dont argue you need assualt rifles to hunt, it just proves you cannot hunt and choose the easy pathetic option

Those arguing for assualty rifles due to hunting are pussies. They just cannot face a real challenge hunting

And dont give me any bullshit about self defense. Its because you have gun laws, that make this a vicious cycle.

We rarely have mass shootings in the UK

Its time the US learn to restrict gun laws

Your fucking freedom to want to get a hard on shooting, is costing many innocent lives


Meanwhile, you support us selling guns to civilians in Syria. Wink

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Eilzel on Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:19 am

"Shame all the teachers don't have gun, they cudda stopped 'em," so will say the gun supporting morons throughout the states.

Stories like this are sad, but America decided long ago that the right to shoot is far more important than a few hundred lives every now and then... at least, the worse half of Americans.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:21 am

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:This is why the US guns laws and those pro guns are so utterly dumb

Seriously, who actually needs an assualt rifle?

Or even a gun?

You exponentially increase the risk of such events happening, through such dumb gun laws

I dont care about the legality or illegal reality of how people have guns.

You have a gun culture, mixed with relative poverty and a divide within society, is a recipe for diasaster

I dont care that you think you need to shoot your gun off hunting, to get a buzz.

Get a bow and arrow, its far more sporting and harder.

The gun is a pussy way to hunt and its hardly a challenge

If you really feel the need to get off killing, then do it the hard way in hunting. Get a knife and stalk your prey, or with a spear

Lets see how good you are then

But dont argue you need assualt rifles to hunt, it just proves you cannot hunt and choose the easy pathetic option

Those arguing for assualty rifles due to hunting are pussies. They just cannot face a real challenge hunting

And dont give me any bullshit about self defense. Its because you have gun laws, that make this a vicious cycle.

We rarely have mass shootings in the UK

Its time the US learn to restrict gun laws

Your fucking freedom to want to get a hard on shooting, is costing many innocent lives


Meanwhile, you support us selling guns to civilians in Syria.  Wink


I am sorry, but I must have considered you intelligent

How do you compare this?

There is a civil war, where people are suffering genocide in Syria, who are fighting for their lives

You then compare this to mass shootings?

Please explain your fuckwittery here

Do you need an assulat rifle to hunt or are you are a pussy?

Can you not stalk your prey with a knife?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:27 am

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:


Meanwhile, you support us selling guns to civilians in Syria.  Wink


I am sorry, but I must have considered you intelligent

How do you compare this?

There is a civil war, where people are suffering genocide in Syria, who are fighting for their lives

You then compare this to mass shootings?

Please explain your fuckwittery here

Do you need an assulat rifle to hunt or are you are a pussy?

Can you not stalk your prey with a knife?

Why would you support arming people in other countries?

I don't use a semi auto sporting rifle chambered in .223 when I hunt, because it's really not a good hunting rifle except to blast away at herds of pigs. I use a far more powerful rifle that is a bolt action.

But if I were to want to defend myself, the AR-15 would be a pretty good choice.


And no, you cant stalk a deer with a knife. For starters, it's illegal.

Here I thought you were smart. Cool


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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:30 am

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:


I am sorry, but I must have considered you intelligent

How do you compare this?

There is a civil war, where people are suffering genocide in Syria, who are fighting for their lives

You then compare this to mass shootings?

Please explain your fuckwittery here

Do you need an assulat rifle to hunt or are you are a pussy?

Can you not stalk your prey with a knife?

Why would you support arming people in other countries?

I don't use a semi auto sporting rifle chambered in .223 when I hunt, because it's really not a good hunting rifle except to blast away at herds of pigs. I use a far more powerful rifle that is a bolt action.

But if I were to want to defend myself, the AR-15 would be a pretty good choice.


And no, you cant stalk a deer with a knife. For starters, it's illegal.

Here I thought you were smart. Cool  



1) Yes

2) So you are a pussy

3) I defend myself with my fists and yet I am alive

4) So here is how dumb US law is, You cannot stalk prey with a knife but can basically use shoot them to death with an automatic

Conclusions

US hunters are pussies

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:33 am

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Why would you support arming people in other countries?

I don't use a semi auto sporting rifle chambered in .223 when I hunt, because it's really not a good hunting rifle except to blast away at herds of pigs. I use a far more powerful rifle that is a bolt action.

But if I were to want to defend myself, the AR-15 would be a pretty good choice.


And no, you cant stalk a deer with a knife. For starters, it's illegal.

Here I thought you were smart. Cool  



1) Yes

2) So you are a pussy

3) I defend myself with my fists and yet I am alive

4) So here is how dumb US law is, You cannot stalk prey with a knife but can basically use shoot them to death with an automatic

Conclusions

US hunters are pussies

No, you can't use an automatic to hunt. The reason why using a knife is against the law is you would probably never be able to kill a deer that way. Wound it, maybe.

Some states do have a primitive season where spears are allowed, but it's not really a very clean kill. It's far better to hit them and cleanly kill them.

That's one reason I never really got into bow hunting. I'd rather have the animal only feel pain about 5 seconds or less.

Do you feel better calling me a pussy? Rolling Eyes

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:37 am

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:


1) Yes

2) So you are a pussy

3) I defend myself with my fists and yet I am alive

4) So here is how dumb US law is, You cannot stalk prey with a knife but can basically use shoot them to death with an automatic

Conclusions

US hunters are pussies

No, you can't use an automatic to hunt. The reason why using a knife is against the law is you would probably never be able to kill a deer that way. Wound it, maybe.

Some states do have a primitive season where spears are allowed, but it's not really a very clean kill. It's far better to hit them and cleanly kill them.

That's one reason I never really got into bow hunting. I'd rather have the animal only feel pain about 5 seconds or less.

Do you feel better calling me a pussy?  Rolling Eyes


1) So American are pussies then. You cant use skill, you have to blast the fuck out of it in a pussy way then

Wow

How many times do you ejaculate doing that?

2) So a spear which is far more skilled is perceived as harder?

Conclusion

Pussies

3) So you feel worried about pain to an animal, but not any concern that automatic assualt rifles kill countless innocent people?

Come again?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:40 am

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

No, you can't use an automatic to hunt. The reason why using a knife is against the law is you would probably never be able to kill a deer that way. Wound it, maybe.

Some states do have a primitive season where spears are allowed, but it's not really a very clean kill. It's far better to hit them and cleanly kill them.

That's one reason I never really got into bow hunting. I'd rather have the animal only feel pain about 5 seconds or less.

Do you feel better calling me a pussy?  Rolling Eyes


1) So American are pussies then. You cant use skill, you have to blast the fuck out of it in a pussy way then

Wow

How many times do you ejaculate doing that?

2) So a spear which is far more skilled is perceived as harder?

Conclusion

Pussies

3) So you feel worried about pain to an animal, but not any concern that automatic assualt rifles kill countless innocent people?

Come again?

Do you think I support shooting people?

I'm not aware of any automatic assault rifles killing anyone, except in Syria. Perhaps our law enforcement has utilized and automatic assault rifle. The dumb kid in Florida today didn't use an automatic assault rifle.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:43 am

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:


1) So American are pussies then. You cant use skill, you have to blast the fuck out of it in a pussy way then

Wow

How many times do you ejaculate doing that?

2) So a spear which is far more skilled is perceived as harder?

Conclusion

Pussies

3) So you feel worried about pain to an animal, but not any concern that automatic assualt rifles kill countless innocent people?

Come again?

Do you think I support shooting people?

I'm not aware of any automatic assault rifles killing anyone, except in Syria. Perhaps our law enforcement has utilized and automatic assault rifle. The dumb kid in Florida today didn't use an automatic assault rifle.  


1) No, never claimed you did

2) Explain to me, why you need an assualt rifle to hunt and thus increase the risk, that someone can then pick up your weapon and use it against others?

3) Where is your belief in actual fair hunting skills. Are you seriously telling me its a test to use an automatic weapon against an animal compared to a knife, bow etc?

All I see is a pussy, as shooting maybe a skill, but to hunt takes more skill will close combat skills

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Cass on Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:24 am

HoratioTarr wrote:Not another one!

6 so far this year and it’s only February Sad

And it’s all so unnecessary and pointless.

Those poor families and those poor kids who witnessed it.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:25 am

Sacrifced for the freedom of death and suffering No No No No

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:40 am

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Do you think I support shooting people?

I'm not aware of any automatic assault rifles killing anyone, except in Syria. Perhaps our law enforcement has utilized and automatic assault rifle. The dumb kid in Florida today didn't use an automatic assault rifle.  


1) No, never claimed you did

2) Explain to me, why you need an assualt rifle to hunt and thus increase the risk, that someone can then pick up your weapon and use it against others?

3) Where is your belief in actual fair hunting skills. Are you seriously telling me its a test to use an automatic weapon against an animal compared to a knife, bow etc?

All I see is a pussy, as shooting maybe a skill, but to hunt takes more skill will close combat skills

I have never said that you need an assault rifle to hunt. I have already stated they are poor weapons to hunt with. They are much better suited to shoot people.

Automatic weapons are illegal for hunting. I think I already said that too. Fair hunting skills use weapons that dispatch an animal quickly. It's why we have banned leg hold traps in most areas. It's a nasty way to kill an animal.

If you would ever like to have a grown conversation about the subject, without calling me a pussy, I'm game. You may even learn something about something, you know very little about.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:17 am

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:
1) So American are pussies then. You cant use skill, you have to blast the fuck out of it in a pussy way then

Wow

How many times do you ejaculate doing that?

2) So a spear which is far more skilled is perceived as harder?

Conclusion

Pussies

3) So you feel worried about pain to an animal, but not any concern that automatic assualt rifles kill countless innocent people?

Come again?

Do you think I support shooting people?

I'm not aware of any automatic assault rifles killing anyone, except in Syria. Perhaps our law enforcement has utilized and automatic assault rifle. The dumb kid in Florida today didn't use an automatic assault rifle.  

What a Face

No automatic rifles show up in the stat's, but semi-automatic ARs and SLRs have become more popular over the last decade...

https://www.vox.com/2016/6/14/11924544/ar-15-orlando-assault-weapons

What about macine pistols (e.g. Uzis, Mach-10s or Steyhrs..) being used in gang fights and 'drive bys'.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:30 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Do you think I support shooting people?

I'm not aware of any automatic assault rifles killing anyone, except in Syria. Perhaps our law enforcement has utilized and automatic assault rifle. The dumb kid in Florida today didn't use an automatic assault rifle.  

What a Face

No automatic rifles show up in the stat's, but semi-automatic ARs and SLRs have become more popular over the last decade...

https://www.vox.com/2016/6/14/11924544/ar-15-orlando-assault-weapons

What about macine pistols (e.g. Uzis, Mach-10s or Steyhrs..) being used in gang fights and 'drive bys'.

The AR's have become more popular. 25 years ago, I didn't know anyone that owned one. Now I know dozens of people with one. I think most people get one, because they think they will get banned one day.

The gang violence is mostly just handguns, as they are so easy to conceal and shoot out of a vehicle.

I do admit, that the AR has become somewhat of a "shiney object" to many of these deranges idiots. With the exception of the guy in Vegas, they really don't provide much more advantage when shooting unarmed people. I just think the crazy people feel more enpowered toting the scary black rifle.


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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:38 am

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:


1) No, never claimed you did

2) Explain to me, why you need an assualt rifle to hunt and thus increase the risk, that someone can then pick up your weapon and use it against others?

3) Where is your belief in actual fair hunting skills. Are you seriously telling me its a test to use an automatic weapon against an animal compared to a knife, bow etc?

All I see is a pussy, as shooting maybe a skill, but to hunt takes more skill will close combat skills

I have never said that you need an assault rifle to hunt. I have already stated they are poor weapons to hunt with. They are much better suited to shoot people.

Automatic weapons are illegal for hunting. I think I already said that too. Fair hunting skills use weapons that dispatch an animal quickly. It's why we have banned leg hold traps in most areas. It's a nasty way to kill an animal.

If you would ever like to have a grown conversation about the subject, without calling me a pussy, I'm game. You may even learn something about something, you know very little about.

1) So you would agree they should be banned then?

2) Use a weapon that dispatches an animal quickly? So a knife does not then or a bow an arrow?

I think they do, just the fact most hunters are not skilled in them, which is the problem, as they take the easy option of automatic weapons.

Again which is no skill

3) Well you have called me far worse and you tell me, how is a gun sporting and fair, next to something harder in a knife or bow and arrow?

So I do not need to learn anything on this from you, its clear I hit a sore point, which was my objective, to point out why I think guns are wrong in the hands of the public

It was not meant to be personnel and yet you are acting like a snowflake

Go figure

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:48 am

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I have never said that you need an assault rifle to hunt. I have already stated they are poor weapons to hunt with. They are much better suited to shoot people.

Automatic weapons are illegal for hunting. I think I already said that too. Fair hunting skills use weapons that dispatch an animal quickly. It's why we have banned leg hold traps in most areas. It's a nasty way to kill an animal.

If you would ever like to have a grown conversation about the subject, without calling me a pussy, I'm game. You may even learn something about something, you know very little about.

1) So you would agree they should be banned then?

2) Use a weapon that dispatches an animal quickly? So a knife does not then or a bow an arrow?

I think they do, just the fact most hunters are not skilled in them, which is the problem, as they take the easy option of automatic weapons.

Again which is no skill

3) Well you have called me far worse and you tell me, how is a gun sporting and fair, next to something harder in a knife or bow and arrow?

So I do not need to learn anything on this from you, its clear I hit a sore point, which was my objective, to point out why I think guns are wrong in the hands of the public

It was not meant to be personnel and yet you are acting like a snowflake

Go figure

For about the 3rd time. Hunters are not allowed to use automatic weapons. They are illegal for most of the population to own, and they are definitely illegal to hunt with. I can not own an automatic weapon.

You haven't hit a sore spot. You have asked me to explain something to you several times and have just gotten mad when you don't like the answer. Then you decided to call me a pussy. Clever.

And if you don't understand why you can't run around chasing deer with knives, I don't know how much more I can discuss this with you.


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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Didge on Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:59 am

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:

1) So you would agree they should be banned then?

2) Use a weapon that dispatches an animal quickly? So a knife does not then or a bow an arrow?

I think they do, just the fact most hunters are not skilled in them, which is the problem, as they take the easy option of automatic weapons.

Again which is no skill

3) Well you have called me far worse and you tell me, how is a gun sporting and fair, next to something harder in a knife or bow and arrow?

So I do not need to learn anything on this from you, its clear I hit a sore point, which was my objective, to point out why I think guns are wrong in the hands of the public

It was not meant to be personnel and yet you are acting like a snowflake

Go figure

For about the 3rd time. Hunters are not allowed to use automatic weapons. They are illegal for most of the population to own, and they are definitely illegal to hunt with. I can not own an automatic weapon.

You haven't hit a sore spot. You have asked me to explain something to you several times and have just gotten mad when you don't like the answer. Then you decided to call me a pussy. Clever.

And if you don't understand why you can't run around chasing deer with knives, I don't know how much more I can discuss this with you.



And for the 3rd time hunters do use them and its the need for guns and argued off hunters that is the problem.

Seriously, learn to find a better hobby, which is the main problem here. I mean seriously, what idiot gets their kicks out of killing anyway. Its not a sport, its barbarity

The fact is, what would be real sport here is to use weapons that would be difficult, but you are not concerned about that or how you do have a gun problem in the US. All you care about is yourself and your supposed freedoms

How many more are going to have to die for that?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Syl on Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:41 pm

My heart goes out to the victims and their families.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:37 pm

Didge wrote:And for the 3rd time hunters do use them and its the need for guns and argued off hunters that is the problem.

You guys are talking about two different things. There's automatic weapons, and then there are those black things that look like war guns. That’s all cosmetics.

The ArmaLite AR-15 is made by the ArmaLite company. It looks like this.



Yes, they are the war guns, with automatic capability. But they are not automatic when sold to the public. They are semi-automatic. They look mean, but that's all cosmetics. They are just another .22 squirrel gun unless they are converted to automatic.

The guy in Las Vegas used a bump-stock, which uses the recoil of the discharge to reload the breech, and so it allows rapid fire.

I sense that when one of you say automatic weapon, the shape and character (above) is intended. When the other says automatic weapon, the firing function is intended. So y'all are talking past each other.

If the AR-15 isn't automatic, it's like a Halloween costume. Looks mean, but it ain't. There's nothing illegal in looking mean. A lot of our legislators try to outlaw the costume--the cosmetics--when what they really intend is the firing mechanism. I opposed Senator Dianne Feinstein's (D-CA) law banning such weapons because it outlawed the cosmetics of the gun, not the mechanism.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:40 pm

All this talk about guns is very interesting, and I do think that it's out of control in the US, but even if people can get hold of guns why do they want to go and shoot a load of kids at a school anyway?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:46 pm

Pussy-grabber just spoke, I 'spose to comfort the nation. Alas, he said nothing. It was all 'good vs. bad', sympathy for the victims' families; congrats to the first responders; god will heal you; children, reach out.

No answers.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:All this talk about guns is very interesting, and I do think that it's out of control in the US, but even if people can get hold of guns why do they want to go and shoot a load of kids at a school anyway?

Guns are penises. Guns convey one's masculinity. Everyone want's one to express his self-worth.

When guns are so widely available, then crazies get a hold of them. There is a certain margin of society that inevitably is impulsive, or mentally ill. They get a hold of guns, and you've got a school shooting...Columbine, Sandy Hook, Parkland...all the same story.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:48 pm

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

For about the 3rd time. Hunters are not allowed to use automatic weapons. They are illegal for most of the population to own, and they are definitely illegal to hunt with. I can not own an automatic weapon.

You haven't hit a sore spot. You have asked me to explain something to you several times and have just gotten mad when you don't like the answer. Then you decided to call me a pussy. Clever.

And if you don't understand why you can't run around chasing deer with knives, I don't know how much more I can discuss this with you.



And for the 3rd time hunters do use them and its the need for guns and argued off hunters that is the problem.

Seriously, learn to find a better hobby, which is the main problem here. I mean seriously, what idiot gets their kicks out of killing anyway. Its not a sport, its barbarity

The fact is, what would be real sport here is to use weapons that would be difficult, but you are not concerned about that or how you do have a gun problem in the US. All you care about is yourself and your supposed freedoms

How many more are going to have to die for that?

You don't know what an automatic rifle is.

Quill sorta explained it.

And you are obsessed about hunting. You could ban hunting in the US tomorrow and the the AR would still be legal because the 2nd Amendment is about having a tool to shoot people, not animals. At least not animals unless they are attacking you.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:50 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:All this talk about guns is very interesting, and I do think that it's out of control in the US, but even if people can get hold of guns why do they want to go and shoot a load of kids at a school anyway?

Some folks are just crazy.

Why did McVeigh want to blow up a federal building with a day care inside of It?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:56 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:And for the 3rd time hunters do use them and its the need for guns and argued off hunters that is the problem.

You guys are talking about two different things.  There's automatic weapons, and then there are those black things that look like war guns.  That’s all cosmetics.

The ArmaLite AR-15 is made by the ArmaLite company.  It looks like this.



Yes, they are the war guns, with automatic capability.  But they are not automatic when sold to the public.  They are semi-automatic.  They look mean, but that's all cosmetics.  They are just another .22 squirrel gun unless they are converted to automatic.

The guy in Las Vegas used a bump-stock, which uses the recoil of the discharge to reload the breech, and so it allows rapid fire.

I sense that when one of you say automatic weapon, the shape and character (above) is intended.  When the other says automatic weapon, the firing function is intended.  So y'all are talking past each other.

If the AR-15 isn't automatic, it's like a Halloween costume.  Looks mean, but it ain't.  There's nothing illegal in looking mean.  A lot of our legislators try to outlaw the costume--the cosmetics--when what they really intend is the firing mechanism.  I opposed Senator Dianne Feinstein's (D-CA) law banning such weapons because it outlawed the cosmetics of the gun, not the mechanism.  

Correction, they are not .22 squirrel guns. The .22 is a very weak rimfire round. The casing doesn't have a primer. The AR-15 shoots the .223 or 5.6 mm. That's not a squirrel round. It's too powerful. Of course the AR-10, which is not as common in mass shootings (I imagine because of cost) shoots the .308 or 7.62. Now that is the perfect white tail round, in addition to its lethality to humans.


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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:17 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

You guys are talking about two different things.  There's automatic weapons, and then there are those black things that look like war guns.  That’s all cosmetics.

The ArmaLite AR-15 is made by the ArmaLite company.  It looks like this.



Yes, they are the war guns, with automatic capability.  But they are not automatic when sold to the public.  They are semi-automatic.  They look mean, but that's all cosmetics.  They are just another .22 squirrel gun unless they are converted to automatic.

The guy in Las Vegas used a bump-stock, which uses the recoil of the discharge to reload the breech, and so it allows rapid fire.

I sense that when one of you say automatic weapon, the shape and character (above) is intended.  When the other says automatic weapon, the firing function is intended.  So y'all are talking past each other.

If the AR-15 isn't automatic, it's like a Halloween costume.  Looks mean, but it ain't.  There's nothing illegal in looking mean.  A lot of our legislators try to outlaw the costume--the cosmetics--when what they really intend is the firing mechanism.  I opposed Senator Dianne Feinstein's (D-CA) law banning such weapons because it outlawed the cosmetics of the gun, not the mechanism.  

Correction, they are not .22 squirrel guns.  The .22 is a very weak rimfire round. The casing doesn't have a primer.  The AR-15 shoots the .223 or 5.6 mm.  That's not a squirrel round.  It's too powerful.  Of course the AR-10, which is not as common in mass shootings (I imagine because of cost) shoots the .308 or 7.62. Now that is the perfect white tail round, in addition to its lethality to humans.  

Yeah, I get you.  I was just using a figure of speech to make the point that the "automatic" part is the real factor.

And right, most deer hunters use a 30-06, making the .308 a near perfect bore.  One of the best explanations I've seen is the following.  This is probably as good a place as any to post it:

Yahoo Answers wrote:The diameter (calibre or bore) of the actual bullet and thus inside diameter of the gun barrel. The full names are (generally speaking) 9mm x 19mm Parabellum and .45 ACP [Automatic Colt Pistol] (45 is actually 0.45 inches). Often, in inches, zeros will be added to make the round seem more impressive, e.g. 500 Smith & Wesson rather than just .5 Smith & Wesson.  Assuming you use the SI metric system, just convert inches buy multiplying the number by 25.4, to have the answer in millimeters.

Also listed, is the length of the round, 9mm x 17mm Para being a great deal shorter than, say, an 8mm x 50mm Lebel. The Lebel will also have more propellant in the actual casing, meaning a higher velocity. (Though not SO high, as the Lebel utilizes quite a heavy bullet) Pistol bullets are usually shorter and wider than rifle rounds, though this does not increase power. Pistol bullets generally come with a rounded (ball) end, or a hollowpoint end, the latter to reduce over-penetration (so the bullet STAYS IN the victim, doing more damage).

Another odd part about gun calibre is shotgun rounds, with "gauge" rather than "mm" or "in." This "gauge" comes from an archaic way of measuring and labeling cannon shot, made of lead. This is hard, but the number (12 gauge, 8 gauge, etc.) is the number of sperical bullets made from a pound (450 grams) of lead. As in, 12 spheres of lead will fit in a 12 gauge, 8 in an 8 gauge. This means that the 8 gauge is of a larger calibre than the 12. Not all shotgun rounds are measured in gauges though, rounds such as the .410 are in 100ths of an inch.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A86.Jya8yoVaEw4AAzMPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTEydjJ1ZWFkBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM0BHZ0aWQDQjQxMjNfMQRzZWMDc3I-?qid=20081103132546AAaVSQ6&p=30%20odd%20six


Last edited by Original Quill on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:20 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Correction, they are not .22 squirrel guns.  The .22 is a very weak rimfire round. The casing doesn't have a primer.  The AR-15 shoots the .223 or 5.6 mm.  That's not a squirrel round.  It's too powerful.  Of course the AR-10, which is not as common in mass shootings (I imagine because of cost) shoots the .308 or 7.62. Now that is the perfect white tail round, in addition to its lethality to humans.  

Yeah, I get you.  I was just using a figure of speech.

And right, most deer hunters use a 30-06, making the .308 a near perfect bore.  One of the best explanations I've seen is the following.  This is probably as good a place as any to post it:

Yahoo Answers wrote:The diameter (calibre or bore) of the actual bullet and thus inside diameter of the gun barrel. The full names are (generally speaking) 9mm x 19mm Parabellum and .45 ACP [Automatic Colt Pistol] (45 is actually 0.45 inches). Often, in inches, zeros will be added to make the round seem more impressive, e.g. 500 Smith & Wesson rather than just .5 Smith & Wesson.  Assuming you use the SI metric system, just convert inches buy multiplying the number by 25.4, to have the answer in millimeters.

Also listed, is the length of the round, 9mm x 17mm Para being a great deal shorter than, say, an 8mm x 50mm Lebel. The Lebel will also have more propellant in the actual casing, meaning a higher velocity. (Though not SO high, as the Lebel utilizes quite a heavy bullet) Pistol bullets are usually shorter and wider than rifle rounds, though this does not increase power. Pistol bullets generally come with a rounded (ball) end, or a hollowpoint end, the latter to reduce over-penetration (so the bullet STAYS IN the victim, doing more damage).

Another odd part about gun calibre is shotgun rounds, with "gauge" rather than "mm" or "in." This "gauge" comes from an archaic way of measuring and labeling cannon shot, made of lead. This is hard, but the number (12 gauge, 8 gauge, etc.) is the number of sperical bullets made from a pound (450 grams) of lead. As in, 12 spheres of lead will fit in a 12 gauge, 8 in an 8 gauge. This means that the 8 gauge is of a larger calibre than the 12. Not all shotgun rounds are measured in gauges though, rounds such as the .410 are in 100ths of an inch.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A86.Jya8yoVaEw4AAzMPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTEydjJ1ZWFkBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM0BHZ0aWQDQjQxMjNfMQRzZWMDc3I-?qid=20081103132546AAaVSQ6&p=30%20odd%20six

And then you have the .410 shotgun which is actually a calibre not a guage and is the smallest of the shotgun rounds. Wink

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by eddie on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:Pussy-grabber just spoke, I 'spose to comfort the nation.  Alas, he said nothing.  It was all 'good vs. bad', sympathy for the victims' families; congrats to the first responders; god will heal you; children, reach out.

No answers.


Well he’s not the first president to talk about mass shootings involving guns and having no answers, is he?

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:26 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Pussy-grabber just spoke, I 'spose to comfort the nation.  Alas, he said nothing.  It was all 'good vs. bad', sympathy for the victims' families; congrats to the first responders; god will heal you; children, reach out.

No answers.


Well he’s not the first president to talk about mass shootings involving guns and having no answers, is he?

What is the answer when you have a human that wants to massacre a bunch of other humans and won't seek help?

Making sure he can't get a weapon is a little easier once you identify him as someone who shouldn't have access to them.

Before that, all you can really do is gather up all the weapons from pretty much everyone. We have 300 million of them at least in this country and you're going to need to amend the constitution. Good luck with that.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:27 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Pussy-grabber just spoke, I 'spose to comfort the nation.  Alas, he said nothing.  It was all 'good vs. bad', sympathy for the victims' families; congrats to the first responders; god will heal you; children, reach out.

No answers.


Well he’s not the first president to talk about mass shootings involving guns and having no answers, is he?

Gd. point.  I get so tired of officials and politicians saying, we need to do something about this gun violence... and having no more to say.  Politicians are so afraid of the NRA, that Congress even voted down a provision making it illegal to sell guns to those listed on the terrorist list.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by eddie on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:34 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Pussy-grabber just spoke, I 'spose to comfort the nation.  Alas, he said nothing.  It was all 'good vs. bad', sympathy for the victims' families; congrats to the first responders; god will heal you; children, reach out.

No answers.


Well he’s not the first president to talk about mass shootings involving guns and having no answers, is he?

Gd. point.  I get so tired of officials and politicians saying, we need to do something about this gun violence... and having no more to say.  Politicians are so afraid of the NRA, that Congress even voted down a provision making it illegal to sell guns to those listed on the terrorist list.

As I recall, you and I have a pretty similar outlook on guns and war in general.
I hope someone finds an answer, and soon.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Vintage on Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:22 pm

I may be wrong but haven't these people doing the shooting been seen as loners, they don't quite fit in, so other kids stop bothering with them, they've got problems from the begining maybe but wouldn't not being included and being avoided and not being remotely popular perhaps even being mocked, make their problems so much worse. Most unpopular kids don't go on to kill their classmates of course but they don't tend to like them much even the mild mannered ones and they don't forget how bad their school days were, the shooters may be the extreme end of hurt and anger, with existing mental health problems.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:34 pm

Vintage wrote:I may be wrong but haven't these people doing the shooting been seen as loners, they don't quite fit in, so other kids stop bothering with them, they've got problems from the begining maybe but wouldn't not being included and being avoided and not being remotely popular perhaps even being mocked, make their problems so much worse. Most unpopular kids don't go on to kill their classmates of course but they don't tend to like them much even the mild mannered ones and they don't forget how bad their school days were, the shooters may be the extreme end of hurt and anger, with existing mental health problems.  

That's true...I think you are on to something.  The hard part is getting politicians and leaders to move from that point, to really taking steps that are effective.

In an open society, you can't just jail people because they are problematical.  Besides, who pays for that?  On the other hand, take away the guns, and the NRA screams.

So in the end, you're left with guns and nuts.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:12 pm

Vintage wrote:I may be wrong but haven't these people doing the shooting been seen as loners, they don't quite fit in, so other kids stop bothering with them, they've got problems from the begining maybe but wouldn't not being included and being avoided and not being remotely popular perhaps even being mocked, make their problems so much worse. Most unpopular kids don't go on to kill their classmates of course but they don't tend to like them much even the mild mannered ones and they don't forget how bad their school days were, the shooters may be the extreme end of hurt and anger, with existing mental health problems.  

But the people you describe have always existed. So has the weaponry.

If behavior is changing the stimuli causing the change needs to be identified.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Vintage on Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:30 pm

They have indeed, maybe there is something different though. There have always been the 'in crowd' and the others but there seems so much more pressure on people now to be part of the in crowd, especially with social media and how that can be used. I don't think I'd like to be in school these days, it was bad enough for the 'not quite fitting in' when I was there.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by HoratioTarr on Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:35 pm

Vintage wrote:I may be wrong but haven't these people doing the shooting been seen as loners, they don't quite fit in, so other kids stop bothering with them, they've got problems from the begining maybe but wouldn't not being included and being avoided and not being remotely popular perhaps even being mocked, make their problems so much worse. Most unpopular kids don't go on to kill their classmates of course but they don't tend to like them much even the mild mannered ones and they don't forget how bad their school days were, the shooters may be the extreme end of hurt and anger, with existing mental health problems.  

I think that's bang on, but I also think it's coupled to and exacerbated by today's penchant for media violence and the acceptance of violent games/TV/movies that fantasists often blur the reality lines with. Violence is often glamourised. And of course the ease of access with which guns are available in the States.
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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:08 pm

For what it's worth, this guy was a member of a white supremacist group (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-shooting.html), and ...



He posted that selfie on social media.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Angry Andy on Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:47 pm

Źwhilst on a lesser, racist site they are trying to say the perp was a bit blsck and was a far left winget.
They would, wouldn't they.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:16 am

Didge wrote:This is why the US guns laws and those pro guns are so utterly dumb

Seriously, who actually needs an assualt rifle?

Or even a gun?

You exponentially increase the risk of such events happening, through such dumb gun laws

I dont care about the legality or illegal reality of how people have guns.

You have a gun culture, mixed with relative poverty and a divide within society, is a recipe for diasaster

I dont care that you think you need to shoot your gun off hunting, to get a buzz.

Get a bow and arrow, its far more sporting and harder.

The gun is a pussy way to hunt and its hardly a challenge

If you really feel the need to get off killing, then do it the hard way in hunting. Get a knife and stalk your prey, or with a spear

Lets see how good you are then

But dont argue you need assualt rifles to hunt, it just proves you cannot hunt and choose the easy pathetic option

Those arguing for assualty rifles due to hunting are pussies. They just cannot face a real challenge hunting

And dont give me any bullshit about self defense. Its because you have gun laws, that make this a vicious cycle.

We rarely have mass shootings in the UK

Its time the US learn to restrict gun laws

Your fucking freedom to want to get a hard on shooting, is costing many innocent lives


Restricting law abiding citizens from having guns does not stop criminals from having guns...


Even if it were possible to remove all guns from all people, the criminals would make their own guns...


Then even if that could be prevented, they would just carry/use other things as weapons... knives/swords/axes/bats/bow&arrow/crossbows etc, and a multitude of other things that could be used as weapons...


So remove all those too... criminals will still get/make them too...!


Even if you could remove all potentiality dangerous things from all people... that would only result in all normal law abiding people being without anything potentiality dangerous... while criminals will still have every one of those things!!!


The weapon of choice will change... but the crime won't stop!!!

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:38 am

Angry Andy wrote:Źwhilst on a lesser, racist site they are trying to say the perp was a bit blsck and was a far left winget.
They would, wouldn't  they.

4 Chan showed a picture of him in a commie shirt. It's fake. The guy appears to have some right wing beliefs. He's adopted so i don't know his lineage but he looks pretty white to me.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:53 am

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

For about the 3rd time. Hunters are not allowed to use automatic weapons. They are illegal for most of the population to own, and they are definitely illegal to hunt with. I can not own an automatic weapon.

You haven't hit a sore spot. You have asked me to explain something to you several times and have just gotten mad when you don't like the answer. Then you decided to call me a pussy. Clever.

And if you don't understand why you can't run around chasing deer with knives, I don't know how much more I can discuss this with you.



And for the 3rd time hunters do use them and its the need for guns and argued off hunters that is the problem.

Seriously, learn to find a better hobby, which is the main problem here. I mean seriously, what idiot gets their kicks out of killing anyway. Its not a sport, its barbarity

The fact is, what would be real sport here is to use weapons that would be difficult, but you are not concerned about that or how you do have a gun problem in the US. All you care about is yourself and your supposed freedoms

How many more are going to have to die for that?

You don't know what an automatic rifle is.  

Quill sorta explained it.

And you are obsessed about hunting.  You could ban hunting in the US tomorrow and the the AR would still be legal because the 2nd Amendment is about having a tool  to shoot people, not animals.  At least not animals unless they are attacking you.  

Hmm
the 2nd amendment is talking about smooth-bore muskets Cool Cool

the extension to include all this modern weaponry is not actually in the constitution

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:06 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Didge wrote:
This is why the US guns laws and those pro guns are so utterly dumb

Seriously, who actually needs an assualt rifle?

Or even a gun?

You exponentially increase the risk of such events happening, through such dumb gun laws

I dont care about the legality or illegal reality of how people have guns.

You have a gun culture, mixed with relative poverty and a divide within society, is a recipe for diasaster

I dont care that you think you need to shoot your gun off hunting, to get a buzz.

Get a bow and arrow, its far more sporting and harder.

The gun is a pussy way to hunt and its hardly a challenge

If you really feel the need to get off killing, then do it the hard way in hunting. Get a knife and stalk your prey, or with a spear

Lets see how good you are then

But dont argue you need assualt rifles to hunt, it just proves you cannot hunt and choose the easy pathetic option

Those arguing for assualty rifles due to hunting are pussies. They just cannot face a real challenge hunting

And dont give me any bullshit about self defense. Its because you have gun laws, that make this a vicious cycle.

We rarely have mass shootings in the UK

Its time the US learn to restrict gun laws

Your fucking freedom to want to get a hard on shooting, is costing many innocent lives

Restricting law abiding citizens from having guns does not stop criminals from having guns...

Even if it were possible to remove all guns from all people, the criminals would make their own guns...

Then even if that could be prevented, they would just carry/use other things as weapons... knives/swords/axes/bats/bow&arrow/crossbows etc, and a multitude of other things that could be used as weapons...

So remove all those too... criminals will still get/make them too...!

Even if you could remove all potentiality dangerous things from all people... that would only result in all normal law abiding people being without anything potentiality dangerous... while criminals will still have every one of those things!!!

The weapon of choice will change... but the crime won't stop!!!

Rolling Eyes

More "open carry"/right-wing/doomsday prepper style nonsense, care of Tommy...

With zero relevance to this particular topic at hand..

Criminals and gangsters stockpiling guns has nothing to do with school shootings and many other mass shootings of this type in the USA -- as most of the guns they use are legal firearms -- either stolen from a parent or older sibling; or else owned by themselves..

In some of the more redneck states in the US people still don't require shooters licences, with some kids being given their first gun on their 5th or 6th birthday !

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:25 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

You don't know what an automatic rifle is.  

Quill sorta explained it.

And you are obsessed about hunting.  You could ban hunting in the US tomorrow and the the AR would still be legal because the 2nd Amendment is about having a tool  to shoot people, not animals.  At least not animals unless they are attacking you.  

Hmm
the 2nd amendment is talking about smooth-bore muskets Cool Cool

the extension to include all this modern weaponry is not actually in the constitution


It talks about arms. More than just smooth bore muskets. The courts have upheld this too.

The first amendment didn't mention the internet either. tongue

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:34 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
Restricting law abiding citizens from having guns does not stop criminals from having guns...

Even if it were possible to remove all guns from all people, the criminals would make their own guns...

Then even if that could be prevented, they would just carry/use other things as weapons... knives/swords/axes/bats/bow&arrow/crossbows etc, and a multitude of other things that could be used as weapons...

So remove all those too... criminals will still get/make them too...!

Even if you could remove all potentiality dangerous things from all people... that would only result in all normal law abiding people being without anything potentiality dangerous... while criminals will still have every one of those things!!!

The weapon of choice will change... but the crime won't stop!!!

Rolling Eyes

More "open carry"/right-wing/doomsday prepper style nonsense, care of Tommy...

With zero relevance to this particular topic at hand..

Criminals and gangsters stockpiling guns has nothing to do with school shootings and many other mass shootings of this type in the USA --  as most of the guns they use are legal firearms --  either stolen from a parent or older sibling; or else owned by themselves..

In some of the more redneck states in the US people still don't require shooters licences, with some kids being given their first gun on their 5th or 6th birthday  !

I don't think any states require a shooter license? I know some states require you to register every weapon.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:38 am

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

You don't know what an automatic rifle is.  

Quill sorta explained it.

And you are obsessed about hunting.  You could ban hunting in the US tomorrow and the the AR would still be legal because the 2nd Amendment is about having a tool  to shoot people, not animals.  At least not animals unless they are attacking you.  

Hmm
the 2nd amendment is talking about smooth-bore muskets Cool Cool

the extension to include all this modern weaponry is not actually in the constitution


It talks about arms. More than just smooth bore muskets. The courts have upheld this too.  

The first amendment didn't mention the internet either. tongue

Smooth bore Muskets were the arms at the time, Guns (at the time) was a reference to Cannons and they didn't say Guns so Obviously they didn't mean it a all weapons.

And YES, no one is denying that the USA's courts and political system has been completely corrupted by Lobbyists like the NRA to the point where it is joke and an affront to the very concept of Freedom and Justice tongue tongue tongue

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

Post by Maddog on Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:43 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:


It talks about arms. More than just smooth bore muskets. The courts have upheld this too.  

The first amendment didn't mention the internet either. tongue

Smooth bore Muskets were the arms at the time, Guns (at the time) was a reference to Cannons and they didn't say Guns so Obviously they didn't mean it a all weapons.

And YES, no one is denying that the USA's courts and political system has been completely corrupted by Lobbyists like the NRA to the point where it is joke and an affront to the very concept of Freedom and Justice  tongue  tongue tongue

The second amendment is quite clear. It says arms. It wasn't written to become obsolete with technology. Give the people that wrote it a little credit. The Smoothbore was obsolete a few decades into our country, and well before the NRA was formed. It still protected the use and possession of arm during that period.

If you think it should be repealed, that's fine. But don't be so fucking stupid as to suggest a black powder cap and ball wasn't protected in 1850, because it wasn't a smoothbore musket.

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Re: Mass shooting in Florida high school; 17 dead

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