Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

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Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Didge on Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:15 pm


Venezuelan despot Nicolas Maduro has welcomed international observers to witness the country’s “flawless electoral system” during its presidential elections in April, as the Bolivarian regime bans the leaders of all the main opposition parties from standing. The leaders of the Justice First, Popular Will and Democratic Action parties – who together make up the opposition’s main electoral alliance – have all been barred from taking part. Maduro says:
“Venezuela is open to every necessary guarantee and welcomes every international observer willing to come. More than to inspect, they will be able to learn from the flawless electoral system we’ve built.”


Back in 2012 Venezuela looked to Britain for its election observers. A delegation of Labour MPs including one Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbott, Grahame Morris and Colin Burgon (Richard’s uncle), flew to Caracas alongside other “impartial” Chavistas including Owen Jones. After six years of human rights abuses, extrajudicial killings and opposition politicians being locked up, will Jezza, Diane and Owen be volunteering this time round?

https://order-order.com/2018/02/13/venezuela-seeks-election-observers-maduro-bans-opposition-running/

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Maddog on Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:38 pm

No doubt there are some socialists around here that should volunteer.

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:48 pm

Maddog wrote:No doubt there are some socialists around here that should volunteer.

More likely, Republican capitalists. There's money to be made in graft...easy monopoly.

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Maddog on Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:50 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:No doubt there are some socialists around here that should volunteer.

More likely, Republican capitalists.  There's money to be made in graft...easy monopoly.

Money to be made from whom?

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:58 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

More likely, Republican capitalists.  There's money to be made in graft...easy monopoly.

Money to be made from whom?

The people, generally. Capitalists don't cut costs to produce more efficiently, as Smithsonian theory holds . They knock each other off, until they, alone, can control the monopoly. A corrupt government like Venezuela employs corrupt power, not to create a just system, but to help the capitalists create the monopolies.

Take a look at Russia. It's the perfect modern model.

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Maddog on Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:00 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Money to be made from whom?

The people, generally.  Capitalists don't cut costs to produce more efficiently, as Smithsonian theory holds .  They knock each other off, until they, alone, can control the monopoly.  A corrupt government like Venezuela employs corrupt power, not to create a just system, but to help the capitalists create the monopolies.

Take a look at Russia.  It's the perfect modern model.

The people are broke. No one to make money off of. Socialism has destroyed that place. Smile

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

The people, generally.  Capitalists don't cut costs to produce more efficiently, as Smithsonian theory holds .  They knock each other off, until they, alone, can control the monopoly.  A corrupt government like Venezuela employs corrupt power, not to create a just system, but to help the capitalists create the monopolies.

Take a look at Russia.  It's the perfect modern model.

The people are broke.  No one to make money off of.  Socialism has destroyed that place.  Smile

Venezula is the Socialist "utopia" which our would-be "Prime Minister" Jeremy Corbyn so admires and is so keen for us to emulate.

Do you guys "over the pond" wonder why some of us here are so fucking worried about the future?
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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Maddog on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:55 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Maddog wrote:

The people are broke.  No one to make money off of.  Socialism has destroyed that place.  Smile

Venezula is the Socialist "utopia" which our would-be "Prime Minister" Jeremy Corbyn so admires and is so keen  for us to emulate.

Do you guys "over the pond" wonder why some of us here are so fucking worried about the future?

We have our own problems. Wink

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:59 am

Maddog wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Venezula is the Socialist "utopia" which our would-be "Prime Minister" Jeremy Corbyn so admires and is so keen  for us to emulate.

Do you guys "over the pond" wonder why some of us here are so fucking worried about the future?


We have our own problems. Wink  



You two pathetic troglodyte wankers wouldn't recognise genuine "socialism" if you tripped over it...

It was Freddie's greedy mob of Thatcherites that put Britain in the mess it's in today..

If you really want to know how Venezuela's Marxist-inspired capitalist-backed authoritarian dictatorship put their country into the mess it's in, then simply "follow the money trail  !".

Unfortunately, you conservative reactionary fuckups don't want to learn the truth..  Much easier to keep your collective heads in the sand, and blame the rest of the world for the ongoing failures of your disproven free market/laissez faire/"trickle down" and "libertarian" theories...

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Didge on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:22 pm

It astounds me what bollocks that socialist apologists come out with everytime a socialist nation is a disaster.

They blatant ignore how the socialist policies were an utter ffailing and look to make the most idiotic claims ever to deny this.

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Maddog on Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:48 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

We have our own problems. Wink  



You two pathetic troglodyte wankers wouldn't recognise genuine "socialism" if you tripped over it...

It was Freddie's greedy mob of Thatcherites that put Britain in the mess it's in today..

If you really want to know how Venezuela's Marxist-inspired capitalist-backed authoritarian dictatorship put their country into the mess it's in, then simply "follow the money trail  !".

Unfortunately, you conservative reactionary fuckups don't want to learn the truth..  Much easier to keep your collective heads in the sand, and blame the rest of the world for the ongoing failures of your disproven free market/laissez faire/"trickle down" and "libertarian" theories...

Do you have the same post saved and just post it randomly when you get angry and drunk?

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Original Quill on Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:38 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

The people, generally.  Capitalists don't cut costs to produce more efficiently, as Smithsonian theory holds .  They knock each other off, until they, alone, can control the monopoly.  A corrupt government like Venezuela employs corrupt power, not to create a just system, but to help the capitalists create the monopolies.

Take a look at Russia.  It's the perfect modern model.

The people are broke.  No one to make money off of.  Socialism has destroyed that place.  Smile

Corruption has destroyed it. I can wear a blue suit and say it's brown...that doesn't make it so. They use the term 'socialism' for sympathy and as a cover for their graft. Don't waste your time on semantic arguments.

If the people don't have wealth, the country doesn't have wealth. Most of South America is third world nations.

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Maddog on Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:44 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

The people are broke.  No one to make money off of.  Socialism has destroyed that place.  Smile

Corruption has destroyed it.  I can wear a blue suit and say it's brown...that doesn't make it so.  They use the term 'socialism' for sympathy and as a cover for their graft.  Don't waste your time on semantic arguments.

If the people don't have wealth, the country doesn't have wealth.  Most of South America is third world nations.

When things were going better there, socialists bragged about the place. Now that it has suffered the same fate as all socialist economies, they pretend like it wasn't really socialist. tongue

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:01 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Corruption has destroyed it.  I can wear a blue suit and say it's brown...that doesn't make it so.  They use the term 'socialism' for sympathy and as a cover for their graft.  Don't waste your time on semantic arguments.

If the people don't have wealth, the country doesn't have wealth.  Most of South America is third world nations.

When things were going better there, socialists bragged about the place. Now that it has suffered the same fate as all socialist economies, they pretend like it wasn't really socialist. tongue  

Suspect

Things were never that "great" over there...

But they were better off before the dictators took control..

No genuine socialists that I have ever encountered referred to Venezuela as a "socialist paradise".

The first time I heard that phrase was from a bunch of pathetic American corporatist propagandists looking to deflect from their own failing "trickle down" idiocies and corrupt dealings..

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:23 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Corruption has destroyed it.  I can wear a blue suit and say it's brown...that doesn't make it so.  They use the term 'socialism' for sympathy and as a cover for their graft.  Don't waste your time on semantic arguments.

If the people don't have wealth, the country doesn't have wealth.  Most of South America is third world nations.

When things were going better there, socialists bragged about the place. Now that it has suffered the same fate as all socialist economies, they pretend like it wasn't really socialist. tongue  

There is no socialist economy in South America, nor has there ever been one.  There are various principles that are experimented with, and some that are adopted, but there has never been a fully socialist system since the Paris Commune in 1871.

There's a lot of talk, though.

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:36 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

When things were going better there, socialists bragged about the place. Now that it has suffered the same fate as all socialist economies, they pretend like it wasn't really socialist. tongue  

There is no socialist economy in South America, nor has there ever been one.  There are various principles that are experimented with, and some that are adopted, but there has never been a fully socialist system since the Paris Commune in 1871.

There's a lot of talk, though.

That's not what the socialists were saying a few years ago. Funny how they changed their mind. Wink

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:24 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

There is no socialist economy in South America, nor has there ever been one.  There are various principles that are experimented with, and some that are adopted, but there has never been a fully socialist system since the Paris Commune in 1871.

There's a lot of talk, though.

That's not what the socialists were saying a few years ago.  Funny how they changed their mind. Wink

There is so much nonsense surrounding the term 'socialism' that it ceases to have any meaning at all.  Socialism is a term that arose around the mid-18-century and beyond.  'Social' means group, or collectively, and refers to a new way of doing production.

Originally, production was by hand, by solo craftsmen.  Socialism was a response to the industrial revolution, and the fact that tooling became too big and expensive for a single producer to bear.  People needed to join together--become social--and pool resources to carry on.

Socialism is not a government, although one of the choices is for government to buy tooling for the producers...so is corporate capitalism, for that matter.  Socialism is the idea is that producers have to pool resources to afford modern tooling.  You can do that with government, but there are alternatives.  For example, Czechoslovakia experimented with workers councils -- https://thecommune.wordpress.com/2008/08/23/cz6/
-- until the Soviet Union shut them down in 1968.

Socialism only became political with Marxism, but from the other way around.  Marx was farthest from the kind of totalitarian state that the Soviet Union offered.  Marx felt that economics would overtake politics, and eventually lives would revolve around productive communes, led by Cominterns.  Politics would disappear altogether.  It was a 'snowflake' theory and the Bolsheviks took advantage to bully Russia into a dictatorship.  It was never socialism.

So Marx was a snowflake.  Still, the economic issue exists: how to afford tools of production.  Corporate capitalism was one answer: pool capital into corporations, and collect resources that way.  Only, just like the Bolsheviks, the corporate leaders turn into bullies, and knock each other off until the market is destroyed, resulting in monopoly.  Capitalism becomes a totalitarian entity.  Socialism at least brings order to the system, and rules (laws) can be put into place to mitigate the brutality, and keep equality going.

But socialism has never been a full-blown government.  When something is social--like socialized medicine--it merely means collecting resources (social) to have the tools to provide the product.  Generally, government can do that so we think of 'socialist' government, but it's not a necessity.  Organizations like Kaiser Permanente are nearing socialized proportions even in a capitalist society like ours.

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:22 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

We have our own problems. Wink  



You two pathetic troglodyte wankers wouldn't recognise genuine "socialism" if you tripped over it...

It was Freddie's greedy mob of Thatcherites that put Britain in the mess it's in today..

If you really want to know how Venezuela's Marxist-inspired capitalist-backed authoritarian dictatorship put their country into the mess it's in, then simply "follow the money trail  !".

Unfortunately, you conservative reactionary fuckups don't want to learn the truth..  Much easier to keep your collective heads in the sand, and blame the rest of the world for the ongoing failures of your disproven free market/laissez faire/"trickle down" and "libertarian" theories...

I realise that you are hardly the sharpest knife in the cutlery drawer (actually, you are one of the most pigshit thick people it has been my misfortune to encounter) but Margaret Thatcher left office in 1990.

That, to save you the embarrassment of removing your socks in order to do the maths, is almost 28 years ago.

In the meantime, Britain had 13 years of Labour Party rule during which time they managed to convert a relatively stable economy into a basket case, with national deficit and debt almost off the scale and a welfare benefits bill trebled in the interests of getting as many electors as possible onto some form of government handout so that they would, in theory, reward their bountiful benefactors by voting Labour for the remainder of their lives.

They also introduced an utterly mad "open door" immigration policy which - according to one of their own senior policy advisors - was aimed at "changing society for all time" (again, producing unthinking Labour boids who would be terrified of losing their handouts should the wicked Tories ever come to power) and "rubbing the Right's nose in diversity."

In reality it has resulted in an increase in population which is seriously outstripping the availability of vital resources, including healthcare, housing and education.

The epitaph for this sleazy, shambolic administration - apart from the death toll from the illegal war that resulted from downright lies to Parliament by Prime Minister Blair and his cronies - was written by the Labour government's own Chief Secretary to the Treasury in a pathetic little note to his Coalition successor after Labour lost the election..."I'm sorry but there's no money left."

Perhaps, when looking for a scapegoat for the UK's problems (not good, admittedly, but exaggerated to the maximum by your inane, uninformed ranting) you should look to a source other than the late Margaret Thatcher.

But then, that would mean you reading some historically accurate material, hopefully for your sake in words of as few syllables as possible, rather than the Loony Left websites and silly conspiracy theory chatrooms that obviously provide your lamentable number of operational brain cells with their source material.

By the way, those wicked greedy Tories were hardly my greedy Tories; I voted Labour in that particular election.

I must have been almost as stupid as yourself...but at least I've grown up since.

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:31 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

That's not what the socialists were saying a few years ago.  Funny how they changed their mind. Wink

There is so much nonsense surrounding the term 'socialism' that it ceases to have any meaning at all.  Socialism is a term that arose around the mid-18-century and beyond.  'Social' means group, or collectively, and refers to a new way of doing production.

Originally, production was by hand, by solo craftsmen.  Socialism was a response to the industrial revolution, and the fact that tooling became too big and expensive for a single producer to bear.  People needed to join together--become social--and pool resources to carry on.

Socialism is not a government, although one of the choices is for government to buy tooling for the producers...so is corporate capitalism, for that matter.  Socialism is the idea is that producers have to pool resources to afford modern tooling.  You can do that with government, but there are alternatives.  For example, Czechoslovakia experimented with workers councils -- https://thecommune.wordpress.com/2008/08/23/cz6/
-- until the Soviet Union shut them down in 1968.

Socialism only became political with Marxism, but from the other way around.  Marx was farthest from the kind of totalitarian state that the Soviet Union offered.  Marx felt that economics would overtake politics, and eventually lives would revolve around productive communes, led by Cominterns.  Politics would disappear altogether.  It was a 'snowflake' theory and the Bolsheviks took advantage to bully Russia into a dictatorship.  It was never socialism.

So Marx was a snowflake.  Still, the economic issue exists: how to afford tools of production.  Corporate capitalism was one answer: pool capital into corporations, and collect resources that way.  Only, just like the Bolsheviks, the corporate leaders turn into bullies, and knock each other off until the market is destroyed, resulting in monopoly.  Capitalism becomes a totalitarian entity.  Socialism at least brings order to the system, and rules (laws) can be put into place to mitigate the brutality, and keep equality going.

But socialism has never been a full-blown government.  When something is social--like socialized medicine--it merely means collecting resources (social) to have the tools to provide the product.  Generally, government can do that so we think of 'socialist' government, but it's not a necessity.  Organizations like Kaiser Permanente are nearing socialized proportions even in a capitalist society like ours.

Did you tell the socialist calling Venezuela a socialist utopia a few years that they were wrong?

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:54 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

There is so much nonsense surrounding the term 'socialism' that it ceases to have any meaning at all.  Socialism is a term that arose around the mid-18-century and beyond.  'Social' means group, or collectively, and refers to a new way of doing production.

Originally, production was by hand, by solo craftsmen.  Socialism was a response to the industrial revolution, and the fact that tooling became too big and expensive for a single producer to bear.  People needed to join together--become social--and pool resources to carry on.

Socialism is not a government, although one of the choices is for government to buy tooling for the producers...so is corporate capitalism, for that matter.  Socialism is the idea is that producers have to pool resources to afford modern tooling.  You can do that with government, but there are alternatives.  For example, Czechoslovakia experimented with workers councils -- https://thecommune.wordpress.com/2008/08/23/cz6/
-- until the Soviet Union shut them down in 1968.

Socialism only became political with Marxism, but from the other way around.  Marx was farthest from the kind of totalitarian state that the Soviet Union offered.  Marx felt that economics would overtake politics, and eventually lives would revolve around productive communes, led by Cominterns.  Politics would disappear altogether.  It was a 'snowflake' theory and the Bolsheviks took advantage to bully Russia into a dictatorship.  It was never socialism.

So Marx was a snowflake.  Still, the economic issue exists: how to afford tools of production.  Corporate capitalism was one answer: pool capital into corporations, and collect resources that way.  Only, just like the Bolsheviks, the corporate leaders turn into bullies, and knock each other off until the market is destroyed, resulting in monopoly.  Capitalism becomes a totalitarian entity.  Socialism at least brings order to the system, and rules (laws) can be put into place to mitigate the brutality, and keep equality going.

But socialism has never been a full-blown government.  When something is social--like socialized medicine--it merely means collecting resources (social) to have the tools to provide the product.  Generally, government can do that so we think of 'socialist' government, but it's not a necessity.  Organizations like Kaiser Permanente are nearing socialized proportions even in a capitalist society like ours.

Did you tell the socialist calling Venezuela a socialist utopia a few years that they were wrong?

We don't even talk. They are hiding behind a lie...trying to take PR advantage of a good cause, that they aren't achieving.

Take a look at the Russian Federation now. It is what Russia has always been. I resist when people call the Soviet Union a communist nation. The Russians were--and are--organized thugs...a mafia. As much as I hate to admit it, the Czar realized that, which is why, some argue, his regime was so repressive.

Wolf is absolutely correct when he gets on this subject. When you hear people talk about communism and socialism today, you are hearing what they were taught in pre-
and elementary school, by parents and siblings operating within propaganda bubble wrought by McCarthy and the knuckledraggers of the 50's.

I'm really surprised. Some, who should know better, still spout this stuff.

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:09 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Did you tell the socialist calling Venezuela a socialist utopia a few years that they were wrong?

We don't even talk.  They are hiding behind a lie...trying to take PR advantage of a good cause, that they aren't achieving.

Take a look at the Russian Federation now.  It is what Russia has always been.  I resist when people call the Soviet Union a communist nation.  The Russians were--and are--organized thugs...a mafia.  As much as I hate to admit it, the Czar realized that, which is why, some argue, his regime was so repressive.

Wolf is absolutely correct when he gets on this subject.  When you hear people talk about communism and socialism today, you are hearing what they were taught in pre-
and elementary school, by parents and siblings operating within propaganda bubble wrought by McCarthy and the knuckledraggers of the 50's.

I'm really surprised.  Some, who should know better, still spout this stuff.

Is that a yes or no?

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Original Quill on Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:08 am

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

We don't even talk.  They are hiding behind a lie...trying to take PR advantage of a good cause, that they aren't achieving.

Take a look at the Russian Federation now.  It is what Russia has always been.  I resist when people call the Soviet Union a communist nation.  The Russians were--and are--organized thugs...a mafia.  As much as I hate to admit it, the Czar realized that, which is why, some argue, his regime was so repressive.

Wolf is absolutely correct when he gets on this subject.  When you hear people talk about communism and socialism today, you are hearing what they were taught in pre-
and elementary school, by parents and siblings operating within propaganda bubble wrought by McCarthy and the knuckledraggers of the 50's.

I'm really surprised.  Some, who should know better, still spout this stuff.

Is that a yes or no?

The answer is obvious...in the first sentence.

The truth is, all this talk in America about the evils of socialism boils down to the fact that America fears socialism.  It's really a red herring.  Since a socialist government has never actually existed, the people make up a pseudo-monster.  Otherwise, they'd never have anything to throw sticks and stones at.

Venezuela is one such imaginary monster-under-the-bed.  It's an easy mark, because it actually is a corrupt system. It's a twofur...you get to knock Venezuela and smear socialism.

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Didge on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:41 am

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Is that a yes or no?

The answer is obvious...in the first sentence.

The truth is, all this talk in America about the evils of socialism boils down to the fact that America fears socialism.  It's really a red herring.  Since a socialist government has never actually existed, the people make up a pseudo-monster.  Otherwise, they'd never have anything to throw sticks and stones at.

Venezuela is one such imaginary monster-under-the-bed.  It's an easy mark, because it actually is a corrupt system.  It's a twofur...you get to knock Venezuela and smear socialism.

PMSL

Never laughed at so much babble in all my life

I suppose all the socialist policies they introduced do not exist then?

This is what is so pathetic about socialist apologists

Anytime socialism, has been an utter failure, which is everytime in the form of Governements, we here the same claptrap proposed by the left

You may want to deny this, but people are not stupid and are never going to buy the crap you and wolf keep peddling.

A few years ago, many were raving about Venezuela being a socialist success story. Now that its shown to be a disaster, those saying this backtrack and now deny its socialism. Even the Corbynites were praising this socialism and wanted to adpat similar socialist failed ideals.

So clearly they mever got your apologist memo

Its the most funniest and or backtracking I have ever seen

Now facts are facts, they certainly did introduce many socialist polices and the country is a disaster.

You want to delusional about this, be my guest, but your denial is never going to change these facts

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Original Quill on Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:36 pm

Didge wrote:I suppose all the socialist policies they introduced do not exist then?

They never introduced anything but propaganda.  Can you name one socialist measure?  They announce We're Socialsit!, and you fall for it.  Tell me again about babble?

It's a red herring, Didge.  A ruse.  It detracts from the corruption and graft...including that claim that it's "a socialist success story."

Haven't you watched Trump?  Didn't he claim that he drew the largest crowd of any Inauguration event?  All you have to do is tell a lie, and repeat it often enough, for the lie to be believed.

Venezuela's socialist. Rolling Eyes  Pshaw..

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly on Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:35 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Is that a yes or no?

The answer is obvious...in the first sentence.

The truth is, all this talk in America about the evils of socialism boils down to the fact that America fears socialism.  It's really a red herring.  Since a socialist government has never actually existed, the people make up a pseudo-monster.  Otherwise, they'd never have anything to throw sticks and stones at.

Venezuela is one such imaginary monster-under-the-bed.  It's an easy mark, because it actually is a corrupt system.  It's a twofur...you get to knock Venezuela and smear socialism.

PMSL

Never laughed at so much babble in all my life

I suppose all the socialist policies they introduced do not exist then?

This is what is so pathetic about socialist apologists

Anytime socialism, has been an utter failure, which is everytime in the form of Governements, we here the same claptrap proposed by the left

You may want to deny this, but people are not stupid and are never going to buy the crap you and wolf keep peddling.

A few years ago, many were raving about Venezuela being a socialist success story. Now that its shown to be a disaster, those saying this backtrack and now deny its socialism. Even the Corbynites were praising this socialism and wanted to adpat similar socialist failed ideals.

So clearly they mever got your apologist memo

Its the most funniest and or backtracking I have ever seen

Now facts are facts, they certainly did introduce many socialist polices and the country is a disaster.

You want to delusional about this, be my guest, but your denial is never going to change these facts

Do you realize that from America, England looks pretty damn socialist? https://www.quora.com/Why-is-England-considered-a-socialist-country

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Didge on Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:16 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:

PMSL

Never laughed at so much babble in all my life

I suppose all the socialist policies they introduced do not exist then?

This is what is so pathetic about socialist apologists

Anytime socialism, has been an utter failure, which is everytime in the form of Governements, we here the same claptrap proposed by the left

You may want to deny this, but people are not stupid and are never going to buy the crap you and wolf keep peddling.

A few years ago, many were raving about Venezuela being a socialist success story. Now that its shown to be a disaster, those saying this backtrack and now deny its socialism. Even the Corbynites were praising this socialism and wanted to adpat similar socialist failed ideals.

So clearly they mever got your apologist memo

Its the most funniest and or backtracking I have ever seen

Now facts are facts, they certainly did introduce many socialist polices and the country is a disaster.

You want to delusional about this, be my guest, but your denial is never going to change these facts

Do you realize that from America, England looks pretty damn socialist? https://www.quora.com/Why-is-England-considered-a-socialist-country

Well that would explain why Quill is so inherantly wrong on what socialism is

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Didge on Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:18 am

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:I suppose all the socialist policies they introduced do not exist then?

They never introduced anything but propaganda.  Can you name one socialist measure?  They announce We're Socialsit!, and you fall for it.  Tell me again about babble?

It's a red herring, Didge.  A ruse.  It detracts from the corruption and graft...including that claim that it's "a socialist success story."

Haven't you watched Trump?  Didn't he claim that he drew the largest crowd of any Inauguration event?  All you have to do is tell a lie, and repeat it often enough, for the lie to be believed.

Venezuela's socialist.  Rolling Eyes  Pshaw..

Well why is it that about everyone rational disagrees with you?

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/ivonaiacob/2016/07/24/venezuelas-failed-socialist-experiment/&refURL=https://www.google.co.uk/&referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Original Quill on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:28 am

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

They never introduced anything but propaganda.  Can you name one socialist measure?  They announce We're Socialsit!, and you fall for it.  Tell me again about babble?

It's a red herring, Didge.  A ruse.  It detracts from the corruption and graft...including that claim that it's "a socialist success story."

Haven't you watched Trump?  Didn't he claim that he drew the largest crowd of any Inauguration event?  All you have to do is tell a lie, and repeat it often enough, for the lie to be believed.

Venezuela's socialist.  Rolling Eyes  Pshaw..

Well why is it that about everyone rational disagrees with you?

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/ivonaiacob/2016/07/24/venezuelas-failed-socialist-experiment/&refURL=https://www.google.co.uk/&referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

Because they are intellectually lazy.  I am the only one (or, with Wolf) who has studied the original texts of those who established the economic theories of socialism.  And, because the doctrine of socialism has been washed through so much maligning as a result of the propaganda bubble of the Cold War, resulting in the Comic book depiction of socialism.

Even the sources that you cite are secondary, and committed to print only because they are topical today. They don't care about original meaning. As a consequence, they don't recognize the inaptness of what they are talking about, to the original subject. They are dupes to the distortions that have been made over the years by Joseph McCarthy and others. They have gone through the Stargate that your parents went through, and now believe that Russian totalitarianism was a socialist system, and that Venezuela is the present iteration of the idea.


Last edited by Original Quill on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:38 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Didge on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:35 am

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

Well why is it that about everyone rational disagrees with you?

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/ivonaiacob/2016/07/24/venezuelas-failed-socialist-experiment/&refURL=https://www.google.co.uk/&referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

Because they are intellectually lazy.  I am the only one (or, with Wolf) who has studied the original texts of those who established the economic theories of socialism.  And, because the doctrine of socialism has been washed through so much maligning as a result of the propaganda bubble of the Cold War, resulting in the Comic book depiction of socialism.


Intellectually?

You wanted evidence of socialist policies.

It was listed for you

Now many people say that socialism cannot be classed in one form.

So what, when what we have here is a Government nationalize many aspects of industries in its country?

So I dont give a shit what you think is ideal socialism, everytime many try to govern by this, its an utter failure.

So stop bullshiting me mate, I know politics and history and no amount of bullshit is going to save you here.

You are just one in a long line of apologist idiots

I mean the article lists verbatim socialist policies and you are still in denial

It was these policies that saw a rich country, turn to shit.

That is a fact and no amount of babble claiming corruption is going to buy here

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Original Quill on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:40 am

You have never submitted any quotes from any original source, nor even paraphrased as I have done.  That is intellectually dishonest.


Last edited by Original Quill on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:42 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Didge on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:42 am

Oh and one further point, why do you think socialists were praising this country before it turned to shit Quill?

Thwey thought their socliast policies for once had shown they were viable and as seen, how badly they were wrong.

Even worse they, like you still make exuses

It was socialist policies that ruined that country

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Didge on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:45 am

Original Quill wrote:You have never submitted any quotes from any original source, nor even paraphrased as I have done.  That is intellectually dishonest.


Original?

How fucking desperate are you

How about their nationalization policies?

That turned their country to over 80% poverty..

If you think nationalization is corruption, then you have shot yourself in the foot

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Original Quill on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:45 am

Didge wrote:Oh and one further point, why do you think socialists were praising this country before it turned to shit Quill?

Because they are not socialists. They are persons, with today's ideologies, who have twisted the meaning of socialsim.

You are just as bad. How important is it to beat a false drum? It misses the point, and is thus irrelevant.

It makes contemporary corporate capitalists feel good.

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Didge on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:49 am

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Oh and one further point, why do you think socialists were praising this country before it turned to shit Quill?

Because they are not socialists.  They are persons, with today's ideologies, who have twisted the meaning of socialsim.

You are just as bad.  How important is it to beat a false drum?  It misses the point, and is thus irrelevant.

It makes contemporary corporate capitalists feel good.


You sould like an idiot now

You deciding who can or not be a socialist

Just like Islamists saying who can or cannot be Muslims, based on beliefs

You just proved what a fucking idiot you are

You seriously believe anyone would give you the time of day on that load of bollocks, when its well known what socialist policies they used and how it was an utter disaster?

You are not the stand point on socialism, yet for some reason like most regressives, think you can move the goal posts everytime your utopia dream in practice is nothing more than a nightmare

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Original Quill on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:50 am

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:You have never submitted any quotes from any original source, nor even paraphrased as I have done.  That is intellectually dishonest.


Original?

How fucking desperate are you

How about their nationalization policies?

Oligarchical corruption...as I've been teaching you. Socialism is common ownership of the tools of production, not government takeover.

Didge wrote:If you think nationalization is corruption, then you have shot yourself in the foot

You don't think, Didge. You memorize.

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Original Quill on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:53 am

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Because they are not socialists.  They are persons, with today's ideologies, who have twisted the meaning of socialsim.

You are just as bad.  How important is it to beat a false drum?  It misses the point, and is thus irrelevant.

It makes contemporary corporate capitalists feel good.


You sould like an idiot now

You have changed the subject from socialism to me. I'll take that as a concession, and that you can no longer continue.

I'm not interested in your new subject, so I'll go now. Gd. luck.

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Didge on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:55 am

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:


Original?

How fucking desperate are you

How about their nationalization policies?

Oligarchical corruption...as I've been teaching you.  Socialism is common ownership of the tools of production, not government takeover.

Didge wrote:If you think nationalization is corruption, then you have shot yourself in the foot

You don't think, Didge.  You memorize.


How intellectually dishonest are you being now?

You dont teach me shit mate, mainly as you are dishonest

Its why I have constantly torn apart your historical arguments and yet we now desperation come into play

Claim any failed socialist regeme as not socialist, even though they are a rich country, that had poor poverty. To then implement socialist ideals and turn that country into a walking nightmare.

You dont think period, you are inherantly disingenious

I cant stand liars

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Re: Venezula Seeks Election Observers As Maduro Bans Opposition From Running

Post by Didge on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:57 am

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:


You sould like an idiot now

You have changed the subject from socialism to me.  I'll take that as a concession, and that you can no longer continue.

I'm not interested in your new subject, so I'll go now.  Gd. luck.


Its what you do, when I present facts

Crawl away with your tail between your legs

You are not interested, because you got weighed, measured and left found wanting

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