A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:04 am

Forcing a baker to provide a wedding cake for a same-sex marriage over her religious objections violates her right to free speech, a California judge has ruled.

“A wedding cake is not just a cake in a Free Speech analysis,” wrote Superior Court Judge David R. Lampe in a decision late Monday. “It is an artistic expression by the person making it that is to be used traditionally as a centerpiece in the celebration of a marriage. There could not be a greater form of expressive conduct,” he said.


As a result, a state anti-discrimination law, which applies to all kinds of other goods and services, does not apply to the baker, who lives in Bakersfield.


The judge’s reasoning is similar to that of the “cake artist” awaiting a U.S. Supreme Court ruling. In that case, Jack C. Phillips, a Colorado baker, is arguing that the First Amendment’s free speech and free exercise of religion clauses give him the right to refuse wedding services to a same-sex couple, despite public accommodations laws that require businesses that are open to the public to treat all potential customers equally. The court heard arguments in Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission in December.


Continue reading by clicking the name of the source below.



SOURCE WASHINGTON POST

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:27 pm

Didge wrote:Forcing a baker to provide a wedding cake for a same-sex marriage over her religious objections violates her right to free speech, a California judge has ruled.

“A wedding cake is not just a cake in a Free Speech analysis,” wrote Superior Court Judge David R. Lampe in a decision late Monday. “It is an artistic expression by the person making it that is to be used traditionally as a centerpiece in the celebration of a marriage. There could not be a greater form of expressive conduct,” he said.


As a result, a state anti-discrimination law, which applies to all kinds of other goods and services, does not apply to the baker, who lives in Bakersfield.


The judge’s reasoning is similar to that of the “cake artist” awaiting a U.S. Supreme Court ruling. In that case, Jack C. Phillips, a Colorado baker, is arguing that the First Amendment’s free speech and free exercise of religion clauses give him the right to refuse wedding services to a same-sex couple, despite public accommodations laws that require businesses that are open to the public to treat all potential customers equally. The court heard arguments in Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission in December.


Continue reading by clicking the name of the source below.



SOURCE WASHINGTON POST

Psssssst. I already.did this story.

I said artists should be free to work for who they wanted. A few statists said they should.be put out of business.

Same old, same old same old really.


_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:36 pm

This fuss about wedding cakes is absurd. How many cakes is it now?

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 31707
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:This fuss about wedding cakes is absurd. How many cakes is it now?

What is happening is gay couples are targeting small bakeries.

They will ignore 20 bakeries that don't have a problem with baking a cake with two goats fucking, if that's what you want. No one in the US is having any issues getting a damn cake.

_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:57 pm

Maddog wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:This fuss about wedding cakes is absurd. How many cakes is it now?

What is happening is gay couples are targeting small bakeries.  

They will ignore 20 bakeries that don't have a problem with baking a cake with two goats fucking, if that's what you want.  No one in the US is having any issues getting a damn cake.  

They need to grow up then. It's about time someone told them to stop being silly.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 31707
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by veya_victaous on Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:02 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:This fuss about wedding cakes is absurd. How many cakes is it now?

What is happening is gay couples are targeting small bakeries.  

They will ignore 20 bakeries that don't have a problem with baking a cake with two goats fucking, if that's what you want.  No one in the US is having any issues getting a damn cake.  

They need to grow up then. It's about time someone told them to stop being silly.

Exactly if the baker can't stop being silly then they should not be running a business Cool
they need to grow up and stop letting their favourite fariytale impede their capacity to run a business to the standards expected by society.

_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
avatar
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 18758
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 35
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:14 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

They need to grow up then. It's about time someone told them to stop being silly.

Exactly if the baker can't stop being silly then they should not be running a business Cool
they need to grow up and stop letting their favourite fariytale impede their capacity to run a business to the standards expected by society.

Or you could just let people be silly at let the marketplace decide.

You never cease to amaze me on how much you like to stick your nose into other people's business.

Do you think Jews should have to bake Nazi cakes?

_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by veya_victaous on Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:59 pm

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

They need to grow up then. It's about time someone told them to stop being silly.

Exactly if the baker can't stop being silly then they should not be running a business Cool
they need to grow up and stop letting their favourite fariytale impede their capacity to run a business to the standards expected by society.

Or you could just let people be silly at let the marketplace decide.

You never cease to amaze me on how much you like to stick your nose into other people's business.

Do you think Jews should have to bake Nazi cakes?  

Yeah cause letting the market decide worked so well in the past Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes



I don't see why your so adamant in denying Actual people their rights. Again a Business is NOT a person.

Lets be real the baker is Not just being silly they are discriminating for no good reason, so it is straight up a REAL person acting as a Private citizen who's Rights are being denied by a Business.

_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
avatar
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 18758
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 35
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:06 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Or you could just let people be silly at let the marketplace decide.

You never cease to amaze me on how much you like to stick your nose into other people's business.

Do you think Jews should have to bake Nazi cakes?  

Yeah cause letting the market decide worked so well in the past Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes



I don't see why your so adamant in denying Actual people their rights. Again a Business is NOT a person.

Lets be real the baker is Not just being silly they are discriminating for no good reason, so it is straight up a REAL person acting as a Private citizen who's Rights are being denied by a Business.

It worked. There were businesses that catered to minorities, that actually did very well. The market rewarded those smart enough to expand their customer base. That's why so many black owned businesses went bankrupt once the civil rights bills passed. In one of the greatest ironies in our country, the Civil Rights bills created black slums where thriving black businesses once thrived.

Anyway, you never answered my question.

Do you think Jews should have to bake Nazi cakes?

_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:19 pm

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

Yeah cause letting the market decide worked so well in the past Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes



I don't see why your so adamant in denying Actual people their rights. Again a Business is NOT a person.

Lets be real the baker is Not just being silly they are discriminating for no good reason, so it is straight up a REAL person acting as a Private citizen who's Rights are being denied by a Business.

It worked. There were businesses that catered to minorities, that actually did very well. The market rewarded those smart enough to expand their customer base. That's why so many black owned businesses went bankrupt once the civil rights bills passed. In one of the greatest ironies in our country, the Civil Rights bills created black slums where thriving black businesses once thrived.

Anyway, you never answered my question.

Do you think Jews should have to bake Nazi cakes?


Ridiculous argument
Dont you think if there had been no segregation in the first place, those business would have opened up in all over society, like other buisness and never would have shut down.
When blacks got rights, they rightly moved to better areas and houses, they were onced denied.
Sorry, but that is a really dumb argument
Segregation is wrong

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:21 pm

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

It worked. There were businesses that catered to minorities, that actually did very well. The market rewarded those smart enough to expand their customer base. That's why so many black owned businesses went bankrupt once the civil rights bills passed. In one of the greatest ironies in our country, the Civil Rights bills created black slums where thriving black businesses once thrived.

Anyway, you never answered my question.

Do you think Jews should have to bake Nazi cakes?


Ridiculous argument
Dont you think if there had been no segregation in the first place, those business would have opened up in all over society, like other buisness and never would have shut down.
When blacks got rights, they rightly moved to better areas, they were onced denied.
Sorry, but that is a really dumb argument
Segregation is wrong

I think segregation is dumb. Anyone that does it is a fool.

However,

Do you think Jews should have to bake Nazi cakes?

_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by veya_victaous on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:22 pm

it did that in the USA but not everywhere. which does also lean to the still existing institutional racism and discrimination in the USA. case in point this judgement

and Yes a Bakery that makes political party cakes should make a Nazi cake. The point You seems to keep missing is the Bakery is Business, it does not have a Religion.

_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
avatar
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 18758
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 35
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:24 pm

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

It worked. There were businesses that catered to minorities, that actually did very well. The market rewarded those smart enough to expand their customer base. That's why so many black owned businesses went bankrupt once the civil rights bills passed. In one of the greatest ironies in our country, the Civil Rights bills created black slums where thriving black businesses once thrived.

Anyway, you never answered my question.

Do you think Jews should have to bake Nazi cakes?


Ridiculous argument
Dont you think if there had been no segregation in the first place, those business would have opened up in all over society, like other buisness and never would have shut down.
When blacks got rights, they rightly moved to better areas and houses, they were onced denied.
Sorry, but that is a really dumb argument
Segregation is wrong

Oh, and I can assure you that many Blacks never moved. They now live in mostly black areas with little economic activity. What we over here refer to as the hood.

Come on over and I'll show you what one looks like. Wink

_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:25 pm

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:


Ridiculous argument
Dont you think if there had been no segregation in the first place, those business would have opened up in all over society, like other buisness and never would have shut down.
When blacks got rights, they rightly moved to better areas, they were onced denied.
Sorry, but that is a really dumb argument
Segregation is wrong

I think segregation is dumb. Anyone that does it is a fool.

However,  

Do you think Jews should have to bake Nazi cakes?


Well Nazism, is a symbol of hate and like any offensive message, you would deny service

Gay marriage is not is symbol of hate but love

How are they comparable?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:26 pm

veya_victaous wrote:it did that in the USA but not everywhere. which does also lean to the still existing institutional racism and discrimination in the USA. case in point this judgement

and Yes a Bakery that makes political party cakes should make a Nazi cake. The point You seems to keep missing is the Bakery is Business, it does not have a Religion.

OK, As long as you believe that forcing Jews to bake cakes for Nazis, is somehow improving society, I can't argue with that. I can disagree with it, as I think it's a form of slavery and I abhor slavery, but that's just me.

_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:28 pm

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I think segregation is dumb. Anyone that does it is a fool.

However,  

Do you think Jews should have to bake Nazi cakes?


Well Nazism, is a symbol of hate and like any offensive message, you would deny service

Gay marriage is not is symbol of hate but love

How are they comparable?

They are both legal positions in this country. Same as being a Klan member. Same as being a member of the Westboro Baptists idiots.

I'm guessing you would force a printer to print up their fliers too?


_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Syl on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:30 pm

I dont think anyone should be forced to bake a cake if they dont want to.

Also...why would anyone want to give business to a company who dont welcome it....I wouldnt.

_________________
Not everyone likes me, but not everyone matters.
avatar
Syl

Posts : 17122
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:30 pm

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:


Well Nazism, is a symbol of hate and like any offensive message, you would deny service

Gay marriage is not is symbol of hate but love

How are they comparable?

They are both legal positions in this country. Same as being a Klan member. Same as being a member of the Westboro Baptists idiots.

I'm guessing you would force a printer to print up their fliers too?  



You are not understanding the point.

The Klan and Westboro are both extreme groups of hate

Gay marriage is a symbol of love

The ridiculous point here, is this is blatant gay hatred.

As if based on sins, for Christians, why only gays denied?

Why not countless other people based on sins?

Where even worse, in Christianity, nobody is without sin.

Jesus is meant to be the judge, not humans and taught to love, not hate.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:35 pm

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

They are both legal positions in this country. Same as being a Klan member. Same as being a member of the Westboro Baptists idiots.

I'm guessing you would force a printer to print up their fliers too?  



You are not understanding the point.

The Klan and Westboro are both extreme groups of hate

Gay marriage is a symbol of love

The ridiculous point here, is this is blatant gay hatred.

As if based on sins, for Christians, why only gays denied?

Why not countless other people based on sins?

Where even worse, in Christianity, nobody is without sin.

Jesus is meant to be the judge, not humans and taught to love, not hate.

I understand the point just fine. I'm not going to try and figure out why someone has issues with designing and making products for others. And I'm damn sure not going to support them being forced to work for another man, for whatever reason. I will always support a persons right to opt out.

Just like I would support a printer's right to opt out of making these shirts.



_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:37 pm

Syl wrote:I dont think anyone should be forced to bake a cake if they dont want to.

Also...why would anyone want to give business to a company who dont welcome it....I wouldnt.

Exactly. Reward people that think like you.

_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:38 pm

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:


You are not understanding the point.

The Klan and Westboro are both extreme groups of hate

Gay marriage is a symbol of love

The ridiculous point here, is this is blatant gay hatred.

As if based on sins, for Christians, why only gays denied?

Why not countless other people based on sins?

Where even worse, in Christianity, nobody is without sin.

Jesus is meant to be the judge, not humans and taught to love, not hate.

I understand the point just fine. I'm not going to try and figure out why someone has issues with designing and making products for others. And I'm damn sure not going to support them being forced to work for another man, for whatever reason. I will always support a persons right to opt out.

Just like I would support a printer's right to opt out of making these shirts.
 


But they would have a right to opt out as its hate speech, which would apply to any hate speech

Its universal and would apply to any customer.

That means its not discriminating against any group

So you are not understanding this here

Singling out gays, based on a view, they think its a sin, is not universal to all customers and all sinners, is it?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Syl on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:39 pm

I was going to add, but its been mentioned, should a black baker be forced to bake a cake with little white pointy hatted figures on the top?

_________________
Not everyone likes me, but not everyone matters.
avatar
Syl

Posts : 17122
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:39 pm

Syl wrote:I was going to add, but its been mentioned, should a black baker be forced to bake a cake with little white pointy hatted figures on the top?

The world needs less force. Cool

_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:40 pm

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I understand the point just fine. I'm not going to try and figure out why someone has issues with designing and making products for others. And I'm damn sure not going to support them being forced to work for another man, for whatever reason. I will always support a persons right to opt out.

Just like I would support a printer's right to opt out of making these shirts.
 


But they would have a right to opt out as its hate speech, which would apply to any hate speech

Its universal and would apply to any customer.

That means its not discriminating against any group

So you are not understanding this here

Singling out gays, based on a view, they think its a sin, is not universal to all customers and all sinners, is it?

I understand just fine. You don't understand me, and that's OK.

_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Syl on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:41 pm

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:I was going to add, but its been mentioned, should a black baker be forced to bake a cake with little white pointy hatted figures on the top?

The world needs less force. Cool
Yep, you cant force people not to hate.

_________________
Not everyone likes me, but not everyone matters.
avatar
Syl

Posts : 17122
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:42 pm

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:


But they would have a right to opt out as its hate speech, which would apply to any hate speech

Its universal and would apply to any customer.

That means its not discriminating against any group

So you are not understanding this here

Singling out gays, based on a view, they think its a sin, is not universal to all customers and all sinners, is it?

I understand just fine. You don't understand me, and that's OK.  


I easily understand you.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by veya_victaous on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:50 pm

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:it did that in the USA but not everywhere. which does also lean to the still existing institutional racism and discrimination in the USA. case in point this judgement

and Yes a Bakery that makes political party cakes should make a Nazi cake. The point You seems to keep missing is the Bakery is Business, it does not have a Religion.

OK, As long as you believe that forcing Jews to bake cakes for Nazis, is somehow improving society, I can't argue with that. I can disagree with it, as I think it's a form of slavery and I abhor slavery, but that's just me.    

a Business can't be a slave Wink

and they are not forced to,
they do not need to work for that business

IT's a real simple Principal..
Businesses are NOT people.

_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
avatar
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 18758
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 35
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:52 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

OK, As long as you believe that forcing Jews to bake cakes for Nazis, is somehow improving society, I can't argue with that. I can disagree with it, as I think it's a form of slavery and I abhor slavery, but that's just me.    

a Business can't be a slave Wink

and they are not forced to,
they do not need to work for that business

IT's a real simple Principal..
Businesses are NOT people.

What are your options? Work for individual A, or be shut down by the government. That's not really much of a choice now is it?

_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:27 am

Yes, Again Business Do not have the right to opinions on peoples race or sexual preference. If some one is not suitable to operate a business than they should not operate a business, just like if you can't preform surgery you shouldn't be a surgeon.

the individual that works for or owns the business has the same rights and options as the MacDonald's employee that doesn't want to serve Texans. Cool

_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
avatar
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 18758
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 35
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:13 am

They're not refusing the serve the customer because they're gay though, they just don't want to make a cake for a gay wedding. If it was a birthday cake, they would serve them.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 31707
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:47 pm

veya_victaous wrote:Yes, Again Business Do not have the right to opinions on peoples race or sexual preference. If some one is not suitable to operate a business than they should not operate a business, just like if you can't preform surgery you shouldn't be a surgeon.

the individual that works for or owns the business has the same rights and options as the MacDonald's employee that doesn't want to serve Texans. Cool

Well, this judge in California disagrees with you to a degree.

You may want to reread the OP.

_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:48 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:They're not refusing the serve the customer because they're gay though, they just don't want to make a cake for a gay wedding. If it was a birthday cake, they would serve them.

Correct. A gay person can still buy products there. What they can't do is force the baker to create a special product for them.

_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Cass on Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:29 pm

If people don’t want to serve certain types of other people then fine. You can therefore no longer claim tax breaks or business write offs.

_________________
Do you think you'll be the guy - to make the Queen of the Angels sigh?
avatar
Cass
the Nerd Queen of Nerds, the Lover of Books who Cooks

Posts : 5312
Join date : 2014-01-19
Age : 50

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:08 pm

Cass wrote:If people don’t want to serve certain types of other people then fine. You can therefore no longer claim tax breaks or business write offs.

How about they just don't pay taxes at all? I love you

_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Original Quill on Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:06 pm

Who would keep their slaves in line?

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars

Someone is above the rule of law in America.
avatar
Original Quill

Posts : 26021
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:35 am

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:Yes, Again Business Do not have the right to opinions on peoples race or sexual preference. If some one is not suitable to operate a business than they should not operate a business, just like if you can't preform surgery you shouldn't be a surgeon.

the individual that works for or owns the business has the same rights and options as the MacDonald's employee that doesn't want to serve Texans. Cool

Well, this judge in California disagrees with you to a degree.  

You may want to reread the OP.  

Yeah of course a Judge in the worlds leading Corpocracy will say Businesses have greater rights than humans

why do you think the world laughs when the USA talks about 'freedom' as if they have it? Razz Razz Razz

_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
avatar
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 18758
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 35
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:41 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Well, this judge in California disagrees with you to a degree.  

You may want to reread the OP.  

Yeah of course a Judge in the worlds leading Corpocracy will say Businesses have greater rights than humans

why do you think the world laughs when the USA talks about 'freedom' as if they have it? Razz Razz Razz

If someone was forced to bake a cake, how would that mean they were free though?

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 31707
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by nicko on Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:00 pm

Some of these Gays look to be deliberately offended so they can shout it from the rooftops and make a few Quid out of it
avatar
nicko

Posts : 10509
Join date : 2013-12-07
Age : 77
Location : rainbow bridge

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:56 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Well, this judge in California disagrees with you to a degree.  

You may want to reread the OP.  

Yeah of course a Judge in the worlds leading Corpocracy will say Businesses have greater rights than humans

why do you think the world laughs when the USA talks about 'freedom' as if they have it? Razz Razz Razz

If someone was forced to bake a cake, how would that mean they were free though?

you mean if someone did their job, they are not forced to they can quit Just like anyone else.

Again No PERSON is forced to do anything, the BUSINESS is forced to. Wink

Because in Civilized Democracies Freedoms and rights belong to PEOPLE not CORPORATIONS

_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
avatar
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 18758
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 35
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Maddog on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:32 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Well, this judge in California disagrees with you to a degree.  

You may want to reread the OP.  

Yeah of course a Judge in the worlds leading Corpocracy will say Businesses have greater rights than humans

why do you think the world laughs when the USA talks about 'freedom' as if they have it? Razz Razz Razz

The cake decorator is a human. tongue

_________________
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Henry David Thoreau
avatar
Maddog

Posts : 2831
Join date : 2017-09-23
Location : Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:39 am

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Well, this judge in California disagrees with you to a degree.  

You may want to reread the OP.  

Yeah of course a Judge in the worlds leading Corpocracy will say Businesses have greater rights than humans

why do you think the world laughs when the USA talks about 'freedom' as if they have it? Razz Razz Razz

The cake decorator is a human. tongue

and that Human cake decorator is an employee of Tastries Bakery
which is a business and is the Entity Selling Cakes
the transaction is between Tastries Bakery and the Customer

SO in the name of freedom and equality the Cake decorator has the EXACT same rights as the MacDonald's employee to interfere with a legal sale of advertised goods and services. which is none.

You see it is Simply you confusing what is happening tongue tongue tongue tongue

_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
avatar
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 18758
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 35
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:36 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

If someone was forced to bake a cake, how would that mean they were free though?

you mean if someone did their job, they are not forced to they can quit Just like anyone else.

Again No PERSON is forced to do anything, the BUSINESS is forced to. Wink

Because in Civilized Democracies Freedoms and rights belong to PEOPLE not CORPORATIONS

Then you're forcing someone to give up their entire business just because of one issue.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 31707
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:41 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

The cake decorator is a human. tongue

and that Human cake decorator is an employee of Tastries Bakery
which is a business and is the Entity Selling Cakes
the transaction is between Tastries Bakery and the Customer

SO in the name of freedom and equality the Cake decorator has the EXACT same rights as the MacDonald's employee to interfere with a legal sale of advertised goods and services. which is none.

You see it is Simply you confusing what is happening tongue tongue tongue tongue

She's the owner actually. I think the issue here is that the cake does not yet exist. If she refused to sell one off the shelf, that would be different. She's not actually refusing to serve the gay couple, she just doesn't want to make a wedding cake.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 31707
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by nicko on Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:25 am

If she doesn't want to make it that's up to her, freedom of choice !
avatar
nicko

Posts : 10509
Join date : 2013-12-07
Age : 77
Location : rainbow bridge

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:43 am

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:If people don’t want to serve certain types of other people then fine. You can therefore no longer claim tax breaks or business write offs.

How about they just don't pay taxes at all?  I love you

Fantastic as long as they have no public roads that provide access to their business, they buy all their water from private entities, police and fire don't respond to their calls, and they refuse to hire anyone who has a public education.

_________________
“As man advances in civilization, and small tribes are united into larger communities, the simplest reason would tell each individual that he ought to extend his social instincts and sympathies to all members of the same nation, though personally unknown to him. This point being once reached, there is only an artificial barrier to prevent his sympathies extending to the men of all nations and races.”

Charles Darwin
avatar
>THE Ben Reilly<
Cowboy King. Dread Pirate of the Guadalupe. Enemy of the American people.

Posts : 24881
Join date : 2013-01-19
Age : 44
Location : Funkytown, Texas

View user profile http://www.newsfixboard.com

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by >THE Ben Reilly< on Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:46 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:

The cake decorator is a human. tongue

and that Human cake decorator is an employee of Tastries Bakery
which is a business and is the Entity Selling Cakes
the transaction is between Tastries Bakery and the Customer

SO in the name of freedom and equality the Cake decorator has the EXACT same rights as the MacDonald's employee to interfere with a legal sale of advertised goods and services. which is none.

You see it is Simply you confusing what is happening tongue tongue tongue tongue

She's the owner actually. I think the issue here is that the cake does not yet exist. If she refused to sell one off the shelf, that would be different. She's not actually refusing to serve the gay couple, she just doesn't want to make a wedding cake.

The issue is actually whether she is falsely advertising her business. If you offer wedding cakes and you are open to the public, you have to make wedding cakes for anyone who asks, or you're engaged in false advertising.

_________________
“As man advances in civilization, and small tribes are united into larger communities, the simplest reason would tell each individual that he ought to extend his social instincts and sympathies to all members of the same nation, though personally unknown to him. This point being once reached, there is only an artificial barrier to prevent his sympathies extending to the men of all nations and races.”

Charles Darwin
avatar
>THE Ben Reilly<
Cowboy King. Dread Pirate of the Guadalupe. Enemy of the American people.

Posts : 24881
Join date : 2013-01-19
Age : 44
Location : Funkytown, Texas

View user profile http://www.newsfixboard.com

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:35 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

She's the owner actually. I think the issue here is that the cake does not yet exist. If she refused to sell one off the shelf, that would be different. She's not actually refusing to serve the gay couple, she just doesn't want to make a wedding cake.

The issue is actually whether she is falsely advertising her business. If you offer wedding cakes and you are open to the public, you have to make wedding cakes for anyone who asks, or you're engaged in false advertising.

False advertising is different to discrimination though.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 31707
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:51 am

Is the baker refusing the make the cake because the couple are gay or refusing to make a gay themed cake?
avatar
HoratioTarr

Posts : 8639
Join date : 2014-01-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Syl on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:51 pm

Freedom of choice and expression surely works both ways.

If she worked for a company and was told to make the cake by her employer she should...she is being paid to do a job and she follows the rules of her employer.

If she is refusing to sell any cake she has made because a person is gay, black or prettier than she is....she is wrong, that's discrimination.

If she is self employed and she is refusing to make a cake because for some reason she doesn't feel she could produce her best work....that's surely up to her.

_________________
Not everyone likes me, but not everyone matters.
avatar
Syl

Posts : 17122
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Syl on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:53 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:Is the baker refusing the make the cake because the couple are gay or refusing to make a gay themed cake?

Apart from not having the traditional bride and groom figures on the top, I wonder what a gay themed wedding cake would entail.

_________________
Not everyone likes me, but not everyone matters.
avatar
Syl

Posts : 17122
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A wedding cake is an ‘artistic expression’ that a baker may deny to a same-sex couple, Calif. judge rules

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum