Who do you love: Israel or Syria

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Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Post by Original Quill on Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:27 pm

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Haaratz wrote:Israel Downs Iranian Drone, Strikes Syria; Israeli F-16 Shot Down

One pilot in serious condition ■ Israel attacks Syrian, Iranian targets in fresh strike ■ Rocket sirens sound throughout northern Israel

Yaniv Kubovich, Jack Khoury, Noa Landau and Noa Shpigel | Feb 10, 2018

An Israeli F-16 was downed Saturday morning after Israel intercepted an Iranian drone launched from Syria into Israeli territory. According to the Israeli army, Syrian anti-aircraft missiles targeted the jet after Israel responded to the infiltration of the drone with a strike in Syria.

The two F-16 pilots ejected as the plane went down in northern Israel. The pilots were taken to the hospital in stable condition. One of the pilots is in serious condition. Following the downing of the jet Israel responded with a fresh "large-scale strike" in Syria.

The pro-Assad military alliance, which includes Iran and Hezbollah, warned Israel on Saturday that any new act of what it called "terrorism" will be met with a "severe and serious response." Russia called on sides to exercise restraint, adding that any threat to the safety of Russian servicemen are "unacceptable."

In response, the Israeli military struck targets in Syria. Manelis said the targets included the trailer from which "the Iranians launched the drone," adding that, "This was a surgical action deep in Syria, target destroyed."

Manelis confirmed that sirens were activated but said civilians were not in danger.

"This is a serious Iranian attack on Israeli territory," Manelis said "Iran is dragging the region into a situation in which it doesn't know how it will end. We are prepared for a variety of incidents...whoever is responsible for this incident is the one who will pay the price."

Rocket sirens sounded for a second time following the downing of the jet. Syrian state TV reported explosions in the Damascus area, calling them new "Israeli aggression."

Shortly afterwards, the Israeli military said it has carried out a fresh 'large-scale strike' against 12 Iranian and Syrian targets in Syria. The targets included four Syrian air-defense batteries and four Iranian targets, the military said.

Landings and departures were temporarily halted at Israel's Ben-Gurion International Airport, located near the central city of Tel Aviv.

An Israeli military spokesman said that Syria and Iran are "playing with fire" and will pay a heavy price. The Prime Minister Office has instructed cabinet ministers not to speak publicly about the events on the northern border.

Opposition sources in Damascus said that an Israeli strike targeted a control tower of a Syrian military airfield near Damascus, and a weapons depot near the Syrian capital.

According to official Israeli sources, since the incidents began Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been holding security consultations and approving the necessary actions in real-time. Members of the Israeli security cabinet have been briefed on the details.

Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman will hold a special security assessment meeting shortly with the IDF chief of staff and senior army and security officials.

Syrian television claimed Saturday morning more than one Israeli aircraft was hit by Syria's defense systems.

Due to Syrian anti-aircraft fire, says the army, rocket sirens sounded in multiple areas of northern Israel, first in the northern Israeli town of Beit She’an and later in the surrounding areas and Golan Heights.

Israel is an ally of the US.  But Trump loves Russia, and Russia is fighting for Syria, and Iran is an ally of Russia.  This will be fun to watch.

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Re: Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Post by Original Quill on Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:54 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Gd. point, Raggs.  But it's only part of the motivation.  Going back to a prediction I made--perhaps 6 - 8 years ago--that the final middle east battle will involve Israel and Iran, I couldn't help but flag this incident because it may have legs.  There's just something about having two potential adversaries in close proximity, with gunpowder and a match handy.

But then there's Trump, with a professed love (doesn't everybody?) for Israel, and a contemporary love affair with Putin, who may well have to support Iran.  If we just flagged any old confrontation...well, look below, the graveyard is full of dead stories.  But this one obviously has longevity and I thought if I just gave it a nudge in the right direction..and lo, it's three pages long already.

Putin will support Iran if it means keeping the Israelis out of Syria. He's already told the Israeli to back off.

Yes, too bad the Russian allies, the Iranians, didn't get the memo. What the Iranians do must bear the stamp of approval of the Russians...after all, the Russians have the command position in the theater. If the Iranians, with Russian approval, are going to send offensive weapons into Israel, the Russians have a strange definition of "back off".

Raggamuffin wrote:Trump doesn't need to do anything really - just keep out of it. Will he do that though? Let's wait and see. Razz

Don't be silly...Trump will tweet from his bedside one of these mornings...as soon as the ME2 movement, in response to Porter and Sorensen, gets out of the way.

Didge, you ask me and my countrymen to go kill babies in another country, yet you seem not to be able even to articulate who is who. These are preliminary questions I have for you, to sort things out and help us to determine whose babies we are supposed to kill: 1) who all is fighting in Syria; and 2) whose side should we be on (ie, the Muslim Iranians, or Muslim ISIS, or Muslim Syrians (but not the Muslim resistence), or the Russians, when they are not tampering with US election systems; and 3) perhaps the toughest question of all, Why?

These are sorting questions, so they should be answered first, before any of your questions are answered...don't you think?

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Re: Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:54 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't agree. I don't think it's wrong to care more about people coming home in body bags than the people who caused the problem in the first place. Leave them to sort it out themselves - they caused it, they can sort it.

That is up to you what you think, but as seen systems and countries function better working together with others. Without that, this country would be screwed. You would then soon see this country turn to anarchy with people starving, lacking medical supllies etc.

Yes, it is up to me.

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Re: Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:55 pm

Quill, Putin doesn't want the Israelis going into Syria, destroying the equipment or causing havoc, or whatever. He's on the side of the Syrian Government.

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Re: Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Post by Original Quill on Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:01 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Quill, Putin doesn't want the Israelis going into Syria, destroying the equipment or causing havoc, or whatever. He's on the side of the Syrian Government.

So why is Putin conducting acts of war against Israel? A drone, as Moles points out, can carry a bomb, and there's something quite final about that. Why is Putin directing his subordinates, the Iranians, to potentially bomb Israel?

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Re: Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:05 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Quill, Putin doesn't want the Israelis going into Syria, destroying the equipment or causing havoc, or whatever. He's on the side of the Syrian Government.

So why is Putin conducting acts of war against Israel?  A drone, as Moles points out, can carry a bomb, and there's something quite final about that.  Why is Putin directing his subordinates, the Iranians, to potentially bomb Israel?

We don't actually know how the drone got to be there. In fact, the Iranians are denying that it was. Apparently, it wasn't armed anyway, and we don't know that the Russians had anything to do with it.

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Re: Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Quill, Putin doesn't want the Israelis going into Syria, destroying the equipment or causing havoc, or whatever. He's on the side of the Syrian Government.

So why is Putin conducting acts of war against Israel?  A drone, as Moles points out, can carry a bomb, and there's something quite final about that.  Why is Putin directing his subordinates, the Iranians, to potentially bomb Israel?

Iran does what it wants. I imagine this drone was being used to spy on Israel.

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Re: Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Post by Original Quill on Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:36 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

So why is Putin conducting acts of war against Israel?  A drone, as Moles points out, can carry a bomb, and there's something quite final about that.  Why is Putin directing his subordinates, the Iranians, to potentially bomb Israel?

Iran does what it wants.  I imagine this drone was being used to spy on Israel.  

Let's put imagination aside. The Israelis don't know what the purpose of the drone is. And, it's the motivation of the Israelis that concern us. In my estimation, sending a drown over one's territory is the same as sending a B-47. (Incidentally, Raggs, the F-18 Israeli jet that was shot down was one operating in Israeli territory, pursuing the drone, not one of those sent to Syria in retaliation.)

If Iran is a loose canon on the deck, that means they don't know whose side is whose, either. If so, then the Russians are conducting that campaign in the same manner as Trump conducted the Puerto Rican campaign...not knowing assholes from teacups.

This places emphasis on my questions to Didge: WTF Didge, who is who??? I don't kill babies without knowing whose are whose.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Re: Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:48 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Iran does what it wants.  I imagine this drone was being used to spy on Israel.  

Let's put imagination aside.  The Israelis don't know what the purpose of the drone is.  And, it's the motivation of the Israelis that concern us.  In my estimation, sending a drown over one's territory is the same as sending a B-47.  (Incidentally, Raggs, the F-18 Israeli jet that was shot down was one operating in Israeli territory, pursuing the drone, not one of those sent to Syria in retaliation.)

If Iran is a loose canon on the deck, that means they don't know whose side is whose, either.  If so, then the Russians are conducting that campaign in the same manner as Trump conducted the Puerto Rican campaign...not knowing assholes from teacups.

This places emphasis on my questions to Didge: WTF Didge, who is who???  I don't kill babies without knowing whose are whose.

This is not what I've heard or read Quill. Can you confirm that with a link?

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Re: Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Post by Original Quill on Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:52 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Let's put imagination aside.  The Israelis don't know what the purpose of the drone is.  And, it's the motivation of the Israelis that concern us.  In my estimation, sending a drown over one's territory is the same as sending a B-47.  (Incidentally, Raggs, the F-18 Israeli jet that was shot down was one operating in Israeli territory, pursuing the drone, not one of those sent to Syria in retaliation.)

If Iran is a loose canon on the deck, that means they don't know whose side is whose, either.  If so, then the Russians are conducting that campaign in the same manner as Trump conducted the Puerto Rican campaign...not knowing assholes from teacups.

This places emphasis on my questions to Didge: WTF Didge, who is who???  I don't kill babies without knowing whose are whose.

This is not what I've heard or read Quill. Can you confirm that with a link?

I think it's at least implicit in the OP story, first paragraph:

An Israeli F-16 was downed Saturday morning after Israel intercepted an Iranian drone launched from Syria into Israeli territory. According to the Israeli army, Syrian anti-aircraft missiles targeted the jet after Israel responded to the infiltration of the drone with a strike in Syria.

I see your point. The second sentence implies that it was after the retaliatory strike. But, the plane came down in Northern Israel.


Last edited by Original Quill on Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:56 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

This is not what I've heard or read Quill. Can you confirm that with a link?

I think it's at least implicit in the OP story, first paragraph:

An Israeli F-16 was downed Saturday morning after Israel intercepted an Iranian drone launched from Syria into Israeli territory. According to the Israeli army, Syrian anti-aircraft missiles targeted the jet after Israel responded to the infiltration of the drone with a strike in Syria.

To me, that says that the jet was downed after the drone was dealt with elsewhere. You see that it says the jet was targeted after Israel responded. All the news reports say that the jet had been in Syria targeting the launcher after the drone had been dealt with by a helicopter near the Jordanian border.

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Re: Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Post by Original Quill on Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:00 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I think it's at least implicit in the OP story, first paragraph:



To me, that says that the jet was downed after the drone was dealt with elsewhere. You see that it says the jet was targeted after Israel responded.  All the news reports say that the jet had been in Syria targeting the launcher after the drone had been dealt with by a helicopter near the Jordanian border.  

Yes, I revised my post after revisiting the original article. Nevertheless, the F-16 came down in northern Israel, lending weight to the first thesis.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Re: Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:03 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

To me, that says that the jet was downed after the drone was dealt with elsewhere. You see that it says the jet was targeted after Israel responded.  All the news reports say that the jet had been in Syria targeting the launcher after the drone had been dealt with by a helicopter near the Jordanian border.  

Yes, I revised my post after revisiting the original article.  Nevertheless, the F-16 came down in northern Israel, lending weight to the first thesis.

OK. Yes, the jet came down in northern Israel, either because it flew long enough to make it back, or the missile which hit it from Syria was long range. The pilots were very lucky they came down in Israel, although one of them is badly injured.

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Re: Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:36 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Iran does what it wants.  I imagine this drone was being used to spy on Israel.  

Let's put imagination aside.  The Israelis don't know what the purpose of the drone is.  And, it's the motivation of the Israelis that concern us.  In my estimation, sending a drown over one's territory is the same as sending a B-47.  (Incidentally, Raggs, the F-18 Israeli jet that was shot down was one operating in Israeli territory, pursuing the drone, not one of those sent to Syria in retaliation.)

If Iran is a loose canon on the deck, that means they don't know whose side is whose, either.  If so, then the Russians are conducting that campaign in the same manner as Trump conducted the Puerto Rican campaign...not knowing assholes from teacups.

This places emphasis on my questions to Didge: WTF Didge, who is who???  I don't kill babies without knowing whose are whose.

Hezbollah, ISIS and Al Quaida are active in the Syrian theater. The place is full of loose cannons ya dope.

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Re: Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Post by Original Quill on Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:39 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Let's put imagination aside.  The Israelis don't know what the purpose of the drone is.  And, it's the motivation of the Israelis that concern us.  In my estimation, sending a drown over one's territory is the same as sending a B-47.  (Incidentally, Raggs, the F-18 Israeli jet that was shot down was one operating in Israeli territory, pursuing the drone, not one of those sent to Syria in retaliation.)

If Iran is a loose canon on the deck, that means they don't know whose side is whose, either.  If so, then the Russians are conducting that campaign in the same manner as Trump conducted the Puerto Rican campaign...not knowing assholes from teacups.

This places emphasis on my questions to Didge: WTF Didge, who is who???  I don't kill babies without knowing whose are whose.

Hezbollah, ISIS and Al Quaida are active in the Syrian theater.  The place is full of loose cannons ya dope.  

None more loose than the alliance between the Shi'ia Muslim Iran and the Russian Federation. You would think that Trump would realize that the secrets he passes on to Russia place his pet, Israel, in serious jeopardy. But apparently that eludes his limited mental processes.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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