How much should a living wage be?...

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How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:08 pm

...for the average hard working person?, the average person's outgoings should be tallied up against theor earnings,the days are now gone when folk working could be able to pay all bills and have enough left for a weekly or even monthly treat.

No doubt the average person's outgoings would be as much or more than their income.

It's seems it's almost a crime for some to ask for a pay rise, frowned upon by many on the right, who are all in favour of mass production at the cheapest rates.

How much in your opinion is a 'living wage' ?...not a wage one has to scrape by from, I mean one that affords and pays working people enough to cover basic bills, food, clothing , rents/mortgages and a bit left for treats sometimes at least?

This gobernment are always spouting how it pays to work, it that is most certainly not the vibe from many people I have either spoken to, or saw talking of this on the telly.


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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:44 pm

...I find it incredible that nobody has given a figure on this, considering that many of the RW are often telling us that wages are high enough and anymore would do more harm than good....for the employer that is.

We also have tales of how some can easily live on benefits ...

So if folk who work full time can barely scrape by then it beggars belief when I hear some say that those on benefits are getting too much and should be more than able to get by,


So no takers on giving an opinion on a living wage?



Not looking for an argument here, it's just that when it comes to benefits plenty is said and and many are criticised, then when we talk of things like wages, some on the right will nod along agreeing we need a living wage, bit in the same breath, that mass production has priority over wages.....

Looks like very few will stick their neck out.


Just thought some would give their opinion as to what a living wage is for the average worker.


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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:11 pm

I watched a program and they listed all the essential items to live, gathered from loads of people and worked how much to buy and sustain and I think it worked out you need about 25 grand a year minimum..

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:19 pm

heavenly father wrote:I watched a program and they listed all the essential items to live, gathered from loads of people and worked how much to buy and sustain and I think it worked out you need about 25 grand a year minimum..

This was being discussed a few weeks back on another thread - something about a single person needing £286 a week after housing costs had been covered.

I thought it the most hysterical thing I had ever read.

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:22 pm


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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:23 pm

sphinx wrote:
heavenly father wrote:I watched a program and they listed all the essential items to live, gathered from loads of people and worked how much to buy and sustain and I think it worked out you need about 25 grand a year minimum..

This was being discussed a few weeks back on another thread - something about a single person needing £286 a week after housing costs had been covered.

I thought it the most hysterical thing I had ever read.

it's like come budget day and they talk about an average earning family, where do they get these ridiculous figures from..

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:02 am

heavenly father wrote:
sphinx wrote:
heavenly father wrote:I watched a program and they listed all the essential items to live, gathered from loads of people and worked how much to buy and sustain and I think it worked out you need about 25 grand a year minimum..

This was being discussed a few weeks back on another thread - something about a single person needing £286 a week after housing costs had been covered.

I thought it the most hysterical thing I had ever read.

it's like come budget day and they talk about an average earning family, where do they get these ridiculous figures from..

Yeah, you might want to note where Sphinx amended her original figure by £100/week.

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Beekeeper on Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:17 pm

Cool  OBVIOUSLY, JD, that will depend on such factors as, for example :
* your country;
* city, suburban or rural locale ?
* whether you own, rent or board in a house, flat or cardboard box;
* your ability to take care of yourself;
* transport options..
    

IN Australia, for a full-time worker (38 hrs) you would be talking about ~

Single person :
IN regional areas - over $30,000AUD a year gross (i.e. inc. taxes)
IN capital cities - over $50,000 a year (someone on a "minimum wage"  can only exist by sharing a house or flat with others, because of the extreme real estate costs in the bigger cities..)

Married couples :
Regional -  over $50,000
Capital cities - over $70,000 for Sydney, Melbourne or Perth; $60,000 for Brisbane or Adelaide..

Salaries and wages don't factor location into their normal loadings and calculations  in Australia ~ it is up to the employer to offer "above award" packages to entice potential employees to work for them.

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:41 pm

Beekeeper wrote:Cool  OBVIOUSLY, JD, that will depend on such factors as, for example :
* your country;
* city, suburban or rural locale ?
* whether you own, rent or board in a house, flat or cardboard box;
* your ability to take care of yourself;
* transport options..
    

IN Australia, for a full-time worker (38 hrs) you would be talking about ~

Single person :
IN regional areas - over $30,000AUD a year gross (i.e. inc. taxes)
IN capital cities - over $50,000 a year (someone on a "minimum wage"  can only exist by sharing a house or flat with others, because of the extreme real estate costs in the bigger cities..)

Married couples :
Regional -  over $50,000
Capital cities - over $70,000 for Sydney, Melbourne or Perth; $60,000 for Brisbane or Adelaide..

Salaries and wages don't factor location into their normal loadings and calculations  in Australia ~ it is up to the employer to offer "above award" packages to entice potential employees to work for them.



That makes much more sense Bee...as you say, so many factors , I was really referring to UK based folk working run of the mill jobs with run of the mill wages , ie NMW.


But thanks for your estimates for Oz...

But what you say sounds about right for here regards to minimum wage workers, who just can't afford to run a house and cover all utility bills, food and clothing etc...and some do have to resort to flat sharing etc...
Just my point, NMW..which folk have been taxed on , is nowhere near enough to cover living costs and run a household in the UK...
Yet Sphinx thinks the figure quoted of £285 or so weekly is outrageous and that folk can live on far less and run a house!

Amazing.

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Beekeeper on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:08 pm

Laughing   SPHINX couldn't even afford to rent a house around here, let alone ever dream of buying one ~ we're talking rents for 3-bedroom house starting around 200 pounds sterling a week in this region ~ and that's before paying for insurance, electricity, water, putting food on the table...

OVER here you're talking about two different wage/salary settings :

Minimum wages : in Australia, that's currently just on $16/hour (I don't know if it's gone over, yet..) ~ for the "low paid" workers such as some labourers, farmhands, childcare workers, cleaners..

"Award" Wages : on either national or state award systems ~ this sets the minimum rates and conditions for various classes of trades, skilled workers, emergency services, professional and semi-professional workers..


CONSERVATIVE governments everywhere, and the various big business groups that dictate their economic policies for them, will  always whine that BOTH "minimum wages" and "unemployment benefits" are too high ~ and that they'll cripple businesses and destroy their world and prevent their children going off to some elitist private schools.   Sad 

THE reality all along, though, is that the Tories always want to drive average worker's lives down, and impoverish them as far as possible..  

"Gaia/God/Allah/theUniverse only knows.." where those idiot, clueless and short-sighted Tories imagine that their future consumers will becoming from, if their wishes ever came to pass !   Rolling Eyes 

AND naturally the likes of Sphinx, Drinky, BigAndy, Smelly' and co. will always be more than willing to believe and champion whatever lies and nonsense their Tory masters feed them..


Last edited by Beekeeper on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:12 pm

£285 a week is not outrageous at all...

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Beekeeper on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:27 pm

heavenly father wrote:

£285 a week is not outrageous at all...


IT'S also not nearly enough for somebody to survive on in a typical suburban neighbourhood, where rents will take more than half to start with ~ and then there's the transport and other overheads to get to-and-from that "minimum wage" job..

Sphinx must have a pretty low sense of the value of her own self-worth, IF she considers that her work is ONLY worth "much less than" that quoted £285 for a 38-hour week !

A LOT of people could actually find themselves even "going backwards" if they are forced into accepting that 'minimum wage' job, especially if it's some distance from their existing home..


Last edited by Beekeeper on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:29 pm

Beekeeper wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

£285 a week is not outrageous at all...


IT'S also not nearly enough for somebody to survive on in a typical suburban neighbourhood, where rents will take more than half to start with ~ and then there's the transport and other overheads to get to-and-from that "minimum wage" job..

Sphinx must have a pretty low sense of the value of her own self-worth, IF she considers that her work is ONLY worth £285 for a 38-hour week !

A LOT of people could actually find themselves even "going backwards" if they are forced into accepting that 'minimum wage' job, especially if it's some distance from their existing home..

I think if minimum wage started there and went up in steps at least some people would be ok but I agree once you start taking rent/ mortgage off that total it wouldn't get you a shed in some areas...

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Beekeeper on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:39 pm

Smile 

"Minimum wage" jobs can work out if a single person has family to stay with, or friends to share the rent, and they live reasonably close to the work...

BUT ~ force them to shift, or make them pay more simply to survive and get by ~ and you could obviously just be forcing them into a lot of strife and misery..

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:40 pm

Beekeeper wrote:Smile 

"Minimum wage"  jobs can work out if a single person has family to stay with, or friends to share the rent, and they live reasonably close to the work...

BUT ~ force them to shift, or make them pay more simply to survive and get by ~ and you could obviously just be forcing them into a lot of strife and misery..  

most couples are forced to both work it is the only way to keep up with everything..

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:52 pm

I dont suppose anyone noted that not only was sphinxs figure amended by £100 to £185

But

THAT WAS THE AMOUNT REQUIRED AFTER HOUSING COSTS.

So £200 a week rent means minimum income of £385 a week.

However everyone keep feeling free to pull random figures out of the air in the meantime tens of thousands will continue to be happy on far less and laugh themselves silly at people telling them they are not getting enough to live on.

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:21 pm

sphinx wrote:I dont suppose anyone noted that not only was sphinxs figure amended by £100 to £185

But

THAT WAS THE AMOUNT REQUIRED AFTER HOUSING COSTS.

So £200 a week rent means minimum income of £385 a week.

However everyone keep feeling free to pull random figures out of the air in the meantime tens of thousands will continue to be happy on far less and laugh themselves silly at people telling them they are not getting enough to live on.


..so more people are easily getting by on less and are happy to have less and are laughing at those who need more to survive on or those who actually do earn good money in A good job?  Laughing 

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:29 pm

Well, I don't think anybody in the UK is starving, so the minimum wage we have now seems to be about right.

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:35 pm

so those who need to use the food banks dont exist?
those who "skip meals" in order to make sure their kids eat dont exist?

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:46 pm

grumpy old git wrote:so those who need to use the food banks dont exist?
those who "skip meals" in order to make sure their kids eat dont exist?

They probably drink, smoke and fill their tax-payer funded houses with gadgets, then whinge about food banks and skipping meals.

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:53 pm

sphinx wrote:I dont suppose anyone noted that not only was sphinxs figure amended by £100 to £185

But

THAT WAS THE AMOUNT REQUIRED AFTER HOUSING COSTS.

So £200 a week rent means minimum income of £385 a week.

However everyone keep feeling free to pull random figures out of the air in the meantime tens of thousands will continue to be happy on far less and laugh themselves silly at people telling them they are not getting enough to live on.

Really? Just sat down and went over my finance spreadsheet. On a weekly basis, after rent:

£50 gas/electric (nope, don't have it on at ridiculous temperatures etc, but central heating boiler old and inefficient, landlord thinking about changing it, but only thinking)
£10 water rates (on a meter)
£30 council tax (two bed house, quite small, but I was in a one bed at one time and it was the same)
£10 telephone/internet (that covers me if I have to phone 0845 numbers)
£20 bus fares (if I didn't have my travel pass)
£40 food/cleaning/laundry stuff
£20 emergency for clothes/shoes/unusual expenses

£180

That's without actually living, going anywhere, doing anything etc.


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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:56 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
grumpy old git wrote:so those who need to use the food banks dont exist?
those who "skip meals" in order to make sure their kids eat dont exist?

They probably drink, smoke and fill their tax-payer funded houses with gadgets, then whinge about food banks and skipping meals.

There are a few of us that rely on a handout from our families, certainly, i wouldn't have half the appliances in this flat, without an interim payment, in lew of my inheritance!

Of course...The RW seem to think that inheritance is ok for the right, but not when a LW person gets some.  Rolling Eyes 

The RW seem to think that they can avoid taxes without any kind of impunity!  Rolling Eyes 

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:57 pm

Why not slate, the wanker IDS?

He lives in a grace and favour house!

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:59 pm

Looks like Andy should join Sphinx in the deniers corner  Rolling Eyes 

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:01 am

Joy Division wrote:Looks like Andy should join Sphinx in the deniers corner  Rolling Eyes 

Shouldn't have laughed at that, but read it wrong. You obviously meant deniers corner as in deny-er.

I saw denier and thought of 15 denier stockings!!!!!!!  Embarassed 

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:02 am

The RW seem to want to drive the LW into the ground.

They get a bit fed up, when the LW show some fight...They call them 'champagne socialists'

Thing is though....They are prepared to pay the higher tax rates, whilst the Tory scum don't want to do that!

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:05 am

ok ok ok...


So there are people who need food banks, parents skipping meals.

Surely quite a few over the past few years are dying?

Thousands of skinny malnourished kids wandering the streets?

Come on - there must be! Some groups are saying there are millions in this country living in poverty. When I did my aid work in Africa the word poverty usually meant death.

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:05 am

What is wrong with 'champagne socialists' ?

...So long as they adhere to the tax rates!

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:07 am

BigAndy9 wrote:ok ok ok...


So there are people who need food banks, parents skipping meals.

Surely quite a few over the past few years are dying?

Thousands of skinny malnourished kids wandering the streets?

Come on - there must be!  Some groups are saying there are millions in this country living in poverty.  When I did my aid work in Africa the word poverty usually meant death.

Well we will be hitting the food reserves, for one week this month.

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:09 am

I've been storing up!

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:13 am

Catman wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:ok ok ok...


So there are people who need food banks, parents skipping meals.

Surely quite a few over the past few years are dying?

Thousands of skinny malnourished kids wandering the streets?

Come on - there must be!  Some groups are saying there are millions in this country living in poverty.  When I did my aid work in Africa the word poverty usually meant death.

Well we will be hitting the food reserves, for one week this month.


Food reserves?

Unfortunately, we can't afford reserves - we work.

Oh, and to the person who is grumbling about somebody else putting a new boiler in to her house - yes, we desperately need a new boiler but can't afford one - if ours breaks, it breaks.

Come and live in the real world, people!

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:08 am

BigAndy9 wrote:
Catman wrote:

Well we will be hitting the food reserves, for one week this month.


Food reserves?

Unfortunately, we can't afford reserves - we work.

Oh, and to the person who is grumbling about somebody else putting a new boiler in to her house - yes, we desperately need a new boiler but can't afford one - if ours breaks, it breaks.  

Come and live in the real world, people!

Oh give it a rest Andy, I wasn't grumbling, my landlord is lovely and it would be total upheaval to change it as it is a back boiler on a fire (that's how old it is).   However, it does make the gas bills high.   If you can't change your boiler, you have obviously not been saving for a rainy day lol, very bad management.   My other half works very long hours at 63, he normally leaves at 5.30 in the morning, sometimes isn't back until 8 if an emergency comes up or a survey needs doing quickly, for very little money.   My grandaughter works as well, only waitressing while she looks for something else, but she's still at work at the moment, did a split shift today, 12 - 5, 8 - finish, which will probably be 2 am.   She does that for minimum wages for under 21s and works as many hours as they give her.  And I worked all my life except for a short while when I had my kids and retired at 60.   Now do fuck off and moan somewhere else.

PS, if you don't have food reserves either in these days of freezers and buy one get one free, you're just plain dumb.

PPS But you're the one that seems to have an android phone, and you are waiting for "dev kit 2" of the oculus rift etc etc etc, perhaps for your families sake you should use the money for a new boiler. It's all about priorities Andy, and yours seem very odd.

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:00 pm

Sassy wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:


Food reserves?

Unfortunately, we can't afford reserves - we work.

Oh, and to the person who is grumbling about somebody else putting a new boiler in to her house - yes, we desperately need a new boiler but can't afford one - if ours breaks, it breaks.  

Come and live in the real world, people!

Oh give it a rest Andy, I wasn't grumbling, my landlord is lovely and it would be total upheaval to change it as it is a back boiler on a fire (that's how old it is).   However, it does make the gas bills high.   If you can't change your boiler, you have obviously not been saving for a rainy day lol, very bad management.   My other half works very long hours at 63, he normally leaves at 5.30 in the morning, sometimes isn't back until 8 if an emergency comes up or a survey needs doing quickly, for very little money.   My grandaughter works as well, only waitressing while she looks for something else, but she's still at work at the moment, did a split shift today, 12 - 5, 8 - finish, which will probably be 2 am.   She does that for minimum wages for under 21s and works as many hours as they give her.  And I worked all my life except for a short while when I had my kids and retired at 60.   Now do fuck off and moan somewhere else.

PS, if you don't have food reserves either in these days of freezers and buy one get one free, you're just plain dumb.

PPS But you're the one that seems to have an android phone, and you are waiting for "dev kit 2" of the oculus rift etc etc etc, perhaps for your families sake you should use the money for a new boiler.  It's all about priorities Andy, and yours seem very odd.

The Oculus Rift was bought for $300 and sold for £400.

The phones, tablets, courtesy of work.

I am an I.T. guru after all.

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:01 pm

Enjoy my money sassy.

If only I could keep some to spend on my poor family  Sad 

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Beekeeper on Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:47 pm

sphinx wrote:
I dont suppose anyone noted that not only was sphinxs figure amended by £100 to £185

But

THAT WAS THE AMOUNT REQUIRED AFTER HOUSING COSTS.

So £200 a week rent means minimum income of £385 a week.

However everyone keep feeling free to pull random figures out of the air in the meantime tens of thousands will continue to be happy on far less and laugh themselves silly at people telling them they are not getting enough to live on.

cyclops 

THAT'S "£385 a week" after any taxes, medical/insurance and superannuation/pension_plan costs have been deducted from the worker's gross pay !

PLUS any costs to work = such as transport, clothes, extra insurance, outside training..
SO, all of a sudden,  that £385 a week has jumped to something like  £500-600 a week !?!


AND YES, Sphinx ~ there are a lot of people down here as well, struggling along on much less than the minimum wage :

THE Australian aged pension for a single 'retiree' homeowner is less than $16,000 a year - means tested;
'Unemployment benefit' for a single person is barely $13,000 a year ($250 a week..).
IN both cases, Non-homeowners might be eligible for rent-assistance 'up to' $80/week ~ not guaranteed, though..      

I DOUBT that either group will exactly be "laughing themselves silly" though, as they struggle to barely get by each week in one of the wealthiest /per_capita countries in the world, on what is roughly 20-25% of the 'median' wage over here !    Arrow

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:32 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Sassy wrote:

Oh give it a rest Andy, I wasn't grumbling, my landlord is lovely and it would be total upheaval to change it as it is a back boiler on a fire (that's how old it is).   However, it does make the gas bills high.   If you can't change your boiler, you have obviously not been saving for a rainy day lol, very bad management.   My other half works very long hours at 63, he normally leaves at 5.30 in the morning, sometimes isn't back until 8 if an emergency comes up or a survey needs doing quickly, for very little money.   My grandaughter works as well, only waitressing while she looks for something else, but she's still at work at the moment, did a split shift today, 12 - 5, 8 - finish, which will probably be 2 am.   She does that for minimum wages for under 21s and works as many hours as they give her.  And I worked all my life except for a short while when I had my kids and retired at 60.   Now do fuck off and moan somewhere else.

PS, if you don't have food reserves either in these days of freezers and buy one get one free, you're just plain dumb.

PPS But you're the one that seems to have an android phone, and you are waiting for "dev kit 2" of the oculus rift etc etc etc, perhaps for your families sake you should use the money for a new boiler.  It's all about priorities Andy, and yours seem very odd.

The Oculus Rift was bought for $300 and sold for £400.

The phones, tablets, courtesy of work.

I am an I.T. guru after all.

I hope you declared the difference as income and paid tax on it Razz 

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Re: How much should a living wage be?...

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:36 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:ok ok ok...


So there are people who need food banks, parents skipping meals.

Surely quite a few over the past few years are dying?

Thousands of skinny malnourished kids wandering the streets?


NO, but....there are some, and the number is increasing...there is an increasing level of vitamin deficiency being noted...and may teachers have described kids coming to school with no breakfast or packed lunch etc.....

Come on - there must be!  Some groups are saying there are millions in this country living in poverty.  When I did my aid work in Africa the word poverty usually meant death.  surely thats the point...we are NOT africa, we are (supposedly) a civilised and relatively affluent nation.....It shouldnt be allowed ,,,EVER....to come to that

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