Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

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Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:17 pm

Brandy Wells never anticipated the amount of vitriolic abuse she would receive over—of all things—her public support of a proposal to let people blow-dry hair without a state-issued license.

"I've been called a geranium, a bitch, an ass, trashy, a puppet, a pawn, repugnant," Wells says. "And my favorite: 'your logic on deregulation of cosmetology is much like your hair, dull and flat.'"

Wells says she's received several attacks from cosmetologists on social media accusing her of being "uneducated" or "clueless" about cosmetology because she doesn't work in the industry. It's true that Wells isn't a licensed cosmetologist (though she does, in fact, know how to use a blow-dryer, she confirmed to Reason), but that's actually the precise reason why she's speaking up.

Wells serves as the lone "public member" of the Arizona State Board of Cosmetology. That means she is the only member of the seven-person board who does not work in some capacity as a cosmetologist or with a connection to a cosmetology school. Last month, she voiced her support for House Bill 2011, which would removing blow-drying from the state's cosmetology licensing requirements. Under current law, using a blow-dryer on someone else's hair, for money, requires more than 1,000 hours of training and an expensive state-issued license. Blow-drying hair without a license could—incredibly—land you in jail for up to six months.

http://reason.com/blog/2018/02/02/inside-the-insane-battle-over-arizonas-d


This is why people graduate with a "Cosmetology degree" 20 grand in debt.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by eddie on Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:44 pm

Am I not reading this correctly? Blow-drying hair needs a license? What??? scratch

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:50 pm

eddie wrote:Am I not reading this correctly? Blow-drying hair needs a license? What??? scratch

If you do it for money.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Cass on Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:48 pm

eddie wrote:Am I not reading this correctly? Blow-drying hair needs a license? What??? scratch

If you’re doing it as a business yes.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:45 pm

This is why there are so many hair weavers and the like that do this stuff in their apartments by word of mouth. The women that want their hair weaved don't care if you have a license. They just like the work they have seen you do and want you to do their hair. Nobody needs a license for most of this crap. It's just a tax and way to protect their business associates, while screwing over the public.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Cass on Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:42 pm

Maddog wrote:This is why there are so many hair weavers and the like that do this stuff in their apartments by word of mouth. The women that want their hair weaved don't care if you have a license. They just like the work they have seen you do and want you to do their hair. Nobody needs a license for most of this crap. It's just a tax and way to protect their business associates, while screwing over the public.

Yeah no. I want a licensed and insured hairdresser who has had proper training in case she hurts me or does something wrong to make my hair fall out. Just like I want a proper plumber or carpenter etc...who is on the ROC.

It’s not screwing over the public, it’s protecting both parties.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:27 am

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:This is why there are so many hair weavers and the like that do this stuff in their apartments by word of mouth. The women that want their hair weaved don't care if you have a license. They just like the work they have seen you do and want you to do their hair. Nobody needs a license for most of this crap. It's just a tax and way to protect their business associates, while screwing over the public.

Yeah no. I want a licensed and insured hairdresser who has had proper training in case she hurts me or does something wrong to make my hair fall out. Just like I want a proper plumber or carpenter etc...who is on the ROC.

It’s not screwing over the public, it’s protecting both parties.

Who's stopping you?

I have a girl that shaves my head in a bar. Maybe she's licensed, maybe she isn't. I don't care.

Do you feel that it's dangerous to allow people to operate a blow dryer without a license?

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Cass on Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:14 am

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

Yeah no. I want a licensed and insured hairdresser who has had proper training in case she hurts me or does something wrong to make my hair fall out. Just like I want a proper plumber or carpenter etc...who is on the ROC.

It’s not screwing over the public, it’s protecting both parties.

Who's stopping you?

I have a girl that shaves my head in a bar.  Maybe she's licensed, maybe she isn't.  I don't care.  

Do you feel that it's dangerous to allow people to operate a blow dryer without a license?  

Nobody. And yeah I’ve been burned before, literally, by a Home hairdresser when younger and didn’t have a lot of money, and have a scar on my head to prove it, so I’ll stick with licensed professionals. I’d rather reward those who follow the rules.

Maybe you’ll care one day if she makes a mistake. But you do what makes you happy.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:51 pm

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Who's stopping you?

I have a girl that shaves my head in a bar.  Maybe she's licensed, maybe she isn't.  I don't care.  

Do you feel that it's dangerous to allow people to operate a blow dryer without a license?  

Nobody. And yeah I’ve been burned before, literally, by a Home hairdresser when younger and didn’t have a lot of money, and have a scar on my head to prove it, so I’ll stick with licensed professionals. I’d rather reward those who follow the rules.

Maybe you’ll care one day if she makes a mistake. But you do what makes you happy.

But I'm often prevented by law from doing what makes me happy. That's the problem with these laws.

Actually, the girl that shaves my head is a cosmetoligist. She would need 1000 more hours of education to be a barber and operate a straight razor. So she uses an electric razor. It's a gigantic waste of money supported by people that run these schools.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Cass on Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:53 pm

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

Nobody. And yeah I’ve been burned before, literally, by a Home hairdresser when younger and didn’t have a lot of money, and have a scar on my head to prove it, so I’ll stick with licensed professionals. I’d rather reward those who follow the rules.

Maybe you’ll care one day if she makes a mistake. But you do what makes you happy.

But I'm often prevented by law from doing what makes me happy.  That's the problem with these laws.  

Actually, the girl that shaves my head is a cosmetoligist. She would need 1000 more hours of education to be a barber and operate a straight razor. So she uses an electric razor.  It's a gigantic waste of money supported by people that run these schools.  

Awwww poor didums can’t have his own way gosh darn it.

Next time you need surgery or something ask her to do it and get back to us how it went ok?

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:22 pm

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:

But I'm often prevented by law from doing what makes me happy.  That's the problem with these laws.  

Actually, the girl that shaves my head is a cosmetoligist. She would need 1000 more hours of education to be a barber and operate a straight razor. So she uses an electric razor.  It's a gigantic waste of money supported by people that run these schools.  

Awwww poor didums can’t have his own way gosh darn it.

Next time you need surgery or something ask her to do it and get back to us how it went ok?

You're equating operating a blow dryer or weaving hair with surgery? That's like comparing riding a bike with flying the space shuttle.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Syl on Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:58 pm

Maddog has obviously never had a really bad hair experience. Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:10 pm

Syl wrote:Maddog has obviously never had a really bad hair experience. Evil or Very Mad

Nope. My daughter did a months ago. At least it was to her. The 20k education didn't prevent her from not liking her $400 hair experience.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Syl on Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:22 pm

Its happened to most of us...even at the top salons.
A bad hair cut can ruin your life. Sad at least it can till it grows out.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:57 pm

I spent 34000 dollars on my education.
As a licensed cosmetologist, I support the deregulation of this industry BECAUSE:
1. Hair schools literally teach to pass a standardized state-board test.
2. Due to item 1, it’s VERY common to graduate hair school and be technically lacking in skill set to include cutting, toning, color wheel, and maintaining integrity of the hair.
3. Because we are required to attend an accredited hair school, hair schools can and do set their own market to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars for a certificate that - because of 1 and 2 - leaves the graduate lacking.
4. Testing and licensing is expensive. $100-200 for state testing then applicable salon/shop, business, etc licensure plus insurance runs another $200+ annually.
5. Education in hair school is so lacking that graduates are often counseled to find a place and assist or apprentice after receiving their license - often for tip outs or minimum wage - WHICH DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF LEARNING A GODDAMN TRADE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Deregulation would impact the curriculum of hair schools and make it actually worth being there.
Like yeah you CAN get hired without attending school, but if the schools are forced to adapt curriculum to actually teaching industry skills, it’ll actually be worth it AND the cost should go down.



From a Facebook friend on my page, on this very topic.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Original Quill on Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:20 pm

Maddog wrote:I spent 34000 dollars on my education.
As a licensed cosmetologist, I support the deregulation of this industry BECAUSE:
1. Hair schools literally teach to pass a standardized state-board test.
2. Due to item 1, it’s VERY common to graduate hair school and be technically lacking in skill set to include cutting, toning, color wheel, and maintaining integrity of the hair.
3. Because we are required to attend an accredited hair school, hair schools can and do set their own market to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars for a certificate that - because of 1 and 2 - leaves the graduate lacking.
4. Testing and licensing is expensive. $100-200 for state testing then applicable salon/shop, business, etc licensure plus insurance runs another $200+ annually.
5. Education in hair school is so lacking that graduates are often counseled to find a place and assist or apprentice after receiving their license - often for tip outs or minimum wage - WHICH DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF LEARNING A GODDAMN TRADE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Deregulation would impact the curriculum of hair schools and make it actually worth being there.
Like yeah you CAN get hired without attending school, but if the schools are forced to adapt curriculum to actually teaching industry skills, it’ll actually be worth it AND the cost should go down.

From a Facebook friend on my page, on this very topic.  

This makes a good argument for improving the education and testing in the industry. It makes not one credible argument for deregulation.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:21 am

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

Awwww poor didums can’t have his own way gosh darn it.

Next time you need surgery or something ask her to do it and get back to us how it went ok?

You're equating operating a blow dryer or weaving hair with surgery? That's like comparing riding a bike with flying the space shuttle.  



Flying the Space Shuttle would actually be easier than riding a bicycle for 99% of their time...

That's what all of tha computerisation and automation was about;  plus they have 'Ground Control' watching over them..

It's during docking and landing, or when things go wrong, that they need human intervention.

Maybe your bicycle comparison should be with something like a "road train" or a race car..


Last edited by WhoseYourWolfie on Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:45 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Grammar)

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:26 am

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:

But I'm often prevented by law from doing what makes me happy.  That's the problem with these laws.  

Actually, the girl that shaves my head is a cosmetoligist. She would need 1000 more hours of education to be a barber and operate a straight razor. So she uses an electric razor.  It's a gigantic waste of money supported by people that run these schools.  

Awwww poor didums can’t have his own way gosh darn it.

Next time you need surgery or something ask her to do it and get back to us how it went ok?

Razz

For Dopeydog to prove that he's not being hypocritical over trade qualifications...

I reckon he should be prepared for his local mechanic or blacksmith to carry out that surgery, if they can give him a good enough spiel beforehand..

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:14 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Cass wrote:
Awwww poor didums can’t have his own way gosh darn it.

Next time you need surgery or something ask her to do it and get back to us how it went ok?

Razz

For Dopeydog to prove that he's not being hypocritical over trade qualifications...

I reckon he should be prepared for his local mechanic or blacksmith to carry out that surgery, if they can give him a good enough spiel beforehand..

I'm prepared to let someone fix my car without making sure he has the right government mandated education. Wink

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:I spent 34000 dollars on my education.
As a licensed cosmetologist, I support the deregulation of this industry BECAUSE:
1. Hair schools literally teach to pass a standardized state-board test.
2. Due to item 1, it’s VERY common to graduate hair school and be technically lacking in skill set to include cutting, toning, color wheel, and maintaining integrity of the hair.
3. Because we are required to attend an accredited hair school, hair schools can and do set their own market to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars for a certificate that - because of 1 and 2 - leaves the graduate lacking.
4. Testing and licensing is expensive. $100-200 for state testing then applicable salon/shop, business, etc licensure plus insurance runs another $200+ annually.
5. Education in hair school is so lacking that graduates are often counseled to find a place and assist or apprentice after receiving their license - often for tip outs or minimum wage - WHICH DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF LEARNING A GODDAMN TRADE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Deregulation would impact the curriculum of hair schools and make it actually worth being there.
Like yeah you CAN get hired without attending school, but if the schools are forced to adapt curriculum to actually teaching industry skills, it’ll actually be worth it AND the cost should go down.

From a Facebook friend on my page, on this very topic.  

This makes a good argument for improving the education and testing in the industry.  It makes not one credible argument for deregulation.

It's already 34K. What will the improvement cost?

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by eddie on Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:19 pm

Even a dummy can operate a hairdryer. I’d have no problem letting someone unlicensed do it as I can also watch and see what they’re doing and could surely stop them before a major hair catastrophe happened. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:27 pm

eddie wrote:Even a dummy can operate a hairdryer. I’d have no problem letting someone unlicensed do it as I can also watch and see what they’re doing and could surely stop them before a major hair catastrophe happened. Rolling Eyes

Anarchist!!

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:32 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

You're equating operating a blow dryer or weaving hair with surgery? That's like comparing riding a bike with flying the space shuttle.  



Flying the Space Shuttle would actually be easier than riding a bicycle for 99% of their time...

That's what all of tha computerisation and automation was about;  plus they have 'Ground Control' watching over them..

It's during docking and landing, or when things go wrong, that they need human intervention.

Maybe you're bicycle comparison should be with something like a "road train" or a race car..

Maybe not.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Original Quill on Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:36 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

This makes a good argument for improving the education and testing in the industry.  It makes not one credible argument for deregulation.

It's already 34K.  What will the improvement cost?

Who cares? If we can spend $75-million on an F-35 Lockheed Lightning aircraft, as a toy for generals, we can afford anything. It's worth it...particularly when it's spread over the many, many students involved.

We spend money to save lives and avoid casualties, not to improve your balance sheet.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:38 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

It's already 34K.  What will the improvement cost?

Who cares?  If we can spend $75-million on an F-35 Lockheed Lightning aircraft, as a toy for generals, we can afford anything.  It's worth it...particularly when it's spread over the many, many students involved.

We spend money to save lives and avoid casualties, not to improve your balance sheet.

I would imagine people if little means would care. Poor people are being denied a chance to work because they need an expensive education to to menial labor.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:51 pm

I would think that people who actually care about others would be wanting to break down barriers to employment, not create expensive new ones. That's the problem with the left. They often have good intentions, but lack the logic to fully understand the ramifications of their good intentions.

Nobody should ever go into thousands of dollars in debt to learn how to operate a fucking blow dryer.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by veya_victaous on Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:39 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

It's already 34K.  What will the improvement cost?

Who cares?  If we can spend $75-million on an F-35 Lockheed Lightning aircraft, as a toy for generals, we can afford anything.  It's worth it...particularly when it's spread over the many, many students involved.

We spend money to save lives and avoid casualties, not to improve your balance sheet.

I would imagine people if little means would care.  Poor people are being denied a chance to work because they need an expensive education to to menial labor.  

*'Cough'*
Publically subsidized education  Wink

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:39 am

Maddog wrote:
I would think that people who actually care about others would be wanting to break down barriers to employment, not create expensive new ones. That's the problem with the left. They often have good intentions, but lack the logic to fully understand the ramifications of their good intentions.

Nobody should ever go into thousands of dollars in debt to learn how to operate a fucking blow dryer.      
Rolling Eyes

More outright bullshit from the economically illiterate...

Fuck the all-for-profit-only trade schools (as with those beauticians and barbers in the USA) and build more government-run trade colleges (as in Oz (TAFE), NZ, UK (Polytechnics), Japan..), where the students only have to pay maybe 20% of the total costs..

It doesn't even mean taking any extra tax revenue -- just redirect a fraction of that business taxation that the US currently wastes in handouts to their billionaire backers.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:43 am

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Who cares?  If we can spend $75-million on an F-35 Lockheed Lightning aircraft, as a toy for generals, we can afford anything.  It's worth it...particularly when it's spread over the many, many students involved.

We spend money to save lives and avoid casualties, not to improve your balance sheet.

I would imagine people if little means would care.  Poor people are being denied a chance to work because they need an expensive education to to menial labor.  

Rolling Eyes

You really are a total fascist class-conscious fuckwit, Dopeydog...

Now labelling barbers and hairdressers as "menial labor"..

You are getting truly pathetic in your desperation.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:16 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I would imagine people if little means would care.  Poor people are being denied a chance to work because they need an expensive education to to menial labor.  

Rolling Eyes

You really are a total fascist class-conscious fuckwit,  Dopeydog...

Now labelling barbers and hairdressers as "menial labor"..

You are getting truly pathetic in your desperation.

I labeled someone who operates a blow dryer as menial labor.

Simmer down, it wasn't meant as insult.  I've done menial labor in my life. It's nothing to be ashamed of.  Wink


Also, I want to make it easier for them to work. Do you?

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:53 pm

Maddog wrote:


Also, I want to make it easier for them to work.  Do you?

Ahhh, what a the Kind Slave master Razz Razz Razz

I want to make it easier for them to live Wink

and Improve the safety and Quality of services in the community

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:57 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:


Also, I want to make it easier for them to work.  Do you?

Ahhh, what a the Kind Slave master Razz Razz Razz

I want to make it easier for them to live Wink

and Improve the safety and Quality of services in the community

Working for a wage is not slavery. I assume you do something in which someone pays you?

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by Maddog on Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:58 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:


Also, I want to make it easier for them to work.  Do you?

Ahhh, what a the Kind Slave master Razz Razz Razz

I want to make it easier for them to live Wink

and Improve the safety and Quality of services in the community

And dont be a fucking prick when you quote me. Quote the whole thing, it's not hard.

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:03 pm

Maddog wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:


Also, I want to make it easier for them to work.  Do you?

Ahhh, what a the Kind Slave master Razz Razz Razz

I want to make it easier for them to live Wink

and Improve the safety and Quality of services in the community

Working for a wage is not slavery. I assume you do something in which someone pays you?

Yep I'm a slave to a wage too...


and
I'll Quote the relevant point or however the fuck I want Wink

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Re: Inside the Insane Battle Over Arizona's Blow-Dry Licensing Bill

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