'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

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'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:08 am


Masked vigilantes are patrolling the streets with baseball bats after complaining police have failed to combat crime in their area.

Fed-up residents in Blackrod, near Bolton, Greater Manchester, have warned criminals they are 'playing with the wrong vigilantes' amid reports of drug dealers and car thieves being confronted in the streets.

One resident has even posted a video online of a man clad in balaclava attacking a suspected drug dealer's car with an axe.

He then winches it up 10ft in the air on a forklift truck and drops it to the ground.

In the 38 second Facebook video, he tells the camera: 'To the criminals of Blackrod who think they can go around robbing f*****g shops, stealing cars like this, dealing f*****g drugs, driving round estates, pinching people's tools.

'You're playing with the wrong vigi f*****g lantes.

Posts on the video congratulate the revenge act however others expressed doubts about the action being taken.

The person who posted the video wrote: 'Everyone in Blackrod is living in fear of these scum bags robbing house and vehicles.

Something is done about it and people start moaning. We can't win. The vehicle was not reported as stolen.'

Another writes: 'Well it's coming to something when some people have to take matters into their own hands to make the town safe well done.'

Another said: 'Scary that it has come to this hope the 'Vigilantes' don't end getting into more trouble from the police than the scumbags terrorising our village.'

While another writes: 'I understand the sentiment but in my opinion this is not the way to deal with it !...Someone is going to get hurt or in serious trouble..I don't know what the solution is but it definitely not this !!...'

Cllr Isabel Seddon, chair of Blackrod Town Council, urged residents not to take matters into their own hands.

She said: 'The council feels strongly against any vigilantes. We are totally confident that it can be dealt with by the correct authorities.

'It is very negative to have people talking about taking matters into their own hands. The council's view is that this should be discouraged and we hope that the police will be able to step up and protect the residents in the way we would like.'

Cllr Seddon added: 'I have lived in Blackrod for 40-odd years and have never felt threatened. It is not a violent place but that makes any crime seem unusual.

'I would not say we have had a spate. I don't know what the cause is but this is unusual - whether it is a sign of the times with a lot of young people unemployed I do not know.

'It is not just Blackrod that no longer has a dedicated community police officer but this type of crime is happening at night. Local police officers are an advantage to any community but I do not think it's down to a lack of local police.

'I think there is an unnecessary fear and there has been an extreme reaction from some members of the public because it is in contrast with the peaceful village that we are used to. It is unusual for Blackrod so it's frightening people.'

One local businessman, who asked not to be named, said: 'People have been coming in saying "have you heard about such and such?".

'There seems to be a lot of people knocking around in the evenings being shady.

'We have heard about car crime - there seems to have been quite a lot of cars stolen or work vans going missing in a short period of time.

'From what I have heard it's been going on for the last four or five months.. People are just getting peeved about it.

'We used to have a dedicated police community support officer who was great. He would always come in and make sure things were okay but I think he got ill a couple of years ago and hasn't been replaced.

'I have seen a few posts on Facebook saying it is time we sort it out on our own but I do not think that is the best solution to the problem. I think they feel no one is helping them.'

Megan Walsh, manager of florist Wild and Wondrous Flowers, said they had not experienced any crime but had heard there had been a lot of burglaries in the area.

She said: 'There are no community officers so people have been trying to sort it on their own. People are just sick and tired of it.

'I think the police should handle it but if they are not people feel like they have to take it into their own hands.'

Eric Spencer-Smith, general manager of the Mercure Bolton Georgian House Hotel, said he understood there had been a 'spate' of robberies.

He said: 'I think there have been a number of house burglaries too. There has been a lot going on and residents have raised their concerns with local authorities.

'Crime has gone up and I've never known it be this bad but it is not just Blackrod. It's Bolton in general.

'I know people have been encouraged not to go down the route of being a vigilante. That has been the message from the local authority and I can't say I have seen any large groups of people.

'Every action has a result. If you reduce policing levels you are opening the door but whenever I have put in a request with the police they have been very good. I can't criticise them.'

A resident, who gave his name as Eddie, 71, said there had been a few break-ins over the last few months.

The retired wagon driver said: 'It is happening to cars too. There's not been a lot but you never saw it like this 10 or 15 years ago.'

Cllr Ann Cunliffe, ward councillor for Horwich and Blackrod, said she had arranged a meeting with the local police team to discuss crime and the vigilante video.

She said: 'It is a problem across Bolton. The area is suffering from a shortage of police officers which is due to cuts from central government.

'The crime figures have gone up in the last few months. Criminals are aware that there are no police out there. We have had a reduction in the numbers and police are working under extreme stress. I have every sympathy with them.

'Who wants vigilantes? We want a safe environment to live in. It is upsetting to a lot of elderly relatives and it is causing unrest in Blackrod. They want proper action not things like this.'

Blackrod, a former mining village, has a population of around 5,000 and is reportedly the site of a Roman station - but it has also been named as one of Britain's worst places to live.

The latest crime figures available show there were 156 crimes reported in Horwich and Blackrod in November compared to 143 during the same period last year.

Of those more than 30 were for anti-social behaviour. There were six burglaries reported, 18 vehicle crimes and 17 for criminal damage and arson.

A Greater Manchester Police spokesman said: 'How we respond to incidents is based on the threat harm and risk that each incident poses; where there is an immediate threat to someone's life, the response will be quicker than the response for a crime that has already happened.

'This is because we have to allocate our resources appropriately in order to protect those in our community who are the most vulnerable and prevent people from coming to harm.

'We will do all we can, by working with our partners and other agencies, to prevent crime before it happens and solve them where possible but we need people to work with us, not against us. Taking matters into your own hands is not the way to solve these issues.

'To solve a crime, we can use a lot of different resources available to us including the intelligence we receive from the public, from covert enquiries and from observations so we need you to let us know about crime in your area - it may already form part of an ongoing operation and your information could be the piece of the jigsaw we need to solve it.'

She said there are a number of PCSOs across the Horwich neighbourhood beat team, which covers Blackrod, and they are deployed on each shift where the greatest 'threat, harm and risk is'.

She added there are also ongoing projects across the area with local officers working with partner agencies to resolve issues in the area.

They are not the first group of citizens to turn crime fighters.

Volunteers have been patrolling the streets of Basildon and Wickford in Essex in a bid to deter gangs, prevent break-ins and stop vandalism.

The vigilantes do not try to arrest criminals, but pass on information to police.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5306243/Vigilantes-armed-baseball-bats-streets.html
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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by magica on Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:24 pm

You can't blame them really. The police do nothing and the culprits get away with it.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Syl on Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:03 pm

If the police wont act and crime is soaring in an area, the residents have two choices....do nothing or do something about it.
Vigilante groups should have a clear set of rules to follow.....and they should always hand the criminals over to the police not take revenge into their own hands.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Vintage on Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:59 pm

The law seemingly sides with the criminal these days, you need a shed load of evidence and if its a less than terrorism or racism you may not get past the starting post let alone get to even a magistrates court. The penalties are laughable if you do manage to have your case heard. I'm not suprised people are taking the law into their own hands otherwise you community gets over run with thieves and thugs and your life will be hell.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:22 pm

Defense of ones self, ones loved ones and ones property is an inalienable right.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Original Quill on Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:02 pm

Eliminate government and gangs will form.  The only question is, do you want them to be beneficial or corrupt?

Attack the drug dealers car, but the next choice is: do you really want to eliminate the drugs, or take over his business?  That's how good things go bad.

As the Russians say, It would be a shame to waste all that enterprise and profit!

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:58 pm

Original Quill wrote:Eliminate government and gangs will form.  The only question is, do you want them to be beneficial or corrupt?

Attack the drug dealers car, but the next choice is: do you really want to eliminate the drugs, or take over his business?  That's how good things go bad.

As the Russians say, It would be a shame to waste all that enterprise and profit!

Gangs seem to form just fine with government.

Or are you suggesting the UK or Russia don't have much government?

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Cass on Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:32 pm

Slippery slope.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:34 pm

What these people don't realise is that once you start interfering with the drug dealers' livelihoods they are going get you back. Only they won't target you. They'll target your loved ones.
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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Cass on Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:38 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:What these people don't realise is that once you start interfering with the drug dealers' livelihoods they are going get you back.  Only they won't target you.   They'll target your loved ones.

True.

But also it’s the whole concept of vigilantes. One day they will target an innocent person as has happened and that person ends up with their life ruined or dead.

They will not deter criminals at all.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:48 pm

Cass wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:What these people don't realise is that once you start interfering with the drug dealers' livelihoods they are going get you back.  Only they won't target you.   They'll target your loved ones.

True.

But also it’s the whole concept of vigilantes. One day they will target an innocent person as has happened and that person ends up with their life ruined or dead.

They will not deter criminals at all.

Already happened. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2514945/Vigilante-murderer-killed-Bijan-Ebrahimi-mistaking-paedophile-jailed.html

What they did was criminal, whatever their 'reasons'. How about these 'pillars of the community' stop voting for a government that strips the police force to the bare bone, and then takes the arm and leg bones for good measure. https://fullfact.org/crime/police-funding-england-and-wales/ if they want to police to do their job properly, because at the moment, they can't, and they acknowledge it.

As the Fire Service have also suffered from the same amount of cuts, will these big, brave vigilantes be rushing into burning buildings to save people. Bet your life they won't. People who are vigilantes have an innate streak of violence in them that they want to get away with using, passing it off as 'doing something for the community'. Taking an axe to a car, step one, taking an axe to a person, step two.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:57 pm

Cass wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:What these people don't realise is that once you start interfering with the drug dealers' livelihoods they are going get you back.  Only they won't target you.   They'll target your loved ones.

True.

But also it’s the whole concept of vigilantes. One day they will target an innocent person as has happened and that person ends up with their life ruined or dead.

They will not deter criminals at all.

I'm to the point where I'm worried about the cops killing the wrong person, before a citizen. And at least with a citizen, they will get punished. Cops get paid vacations for shooting innocent people.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Cass on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:00 pm

sassy wrote:
Cass wrote:

True.

But also it’s the whole concept of vigilantes. One day they will target an innocent person as has happened and that person ends up with their life ruined or dead.

They will not deter criminals at all.

Already happened.  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2514945/Vigilante-murderer-killed-Bijan-Ebrahimi-mistaking-paedophile-jailed.html

What they did was criminal, whatever their 'reasons'.   How about these 'pillars of the community' stop voting for a government that strips the police force to the bare bone, and then takes the arm and leg bones for good measure.  https://fullfact.org/crime/police-funding-england-and-wales/ if they want to police to do their job properly, because at the moment, they can't, and they acknowledge it.

As the Fire Service have also suffered from the same amount of cuts, will these big, brave vigilantes be rushing into burning buildings to save people.   Bet your life they won't.   People who are vigilantes have an innate streak of violence in them that they want to get away with using, passing it off as 'doing something for the community'.   Taking an axe to a car, step one, taking an axe to a person, step two.

That’s exactly the case I’m referring to. Almost the whole community was complicit yet afterwards they were like wasn’t me. Murderers.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Cass on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:01 pm

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

True.

But also it’s the whole concept of vigilantes. One day they will target an innocent person as has happened and that person ends up with their life ruined or dead.

They will not deter criminals at all.

I'm to the point where I'm worried about the cops killing the wrong person, before a citizen. And at least with a citizen, they will get punished. Cops get paid vacations for shooting innocent people.

Bad cops and vigilante groups are both wrong end of story.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Original Quill on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:04 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Eliminate government and gangs will form.  The only question is, do you want them to be beneficial or corrupt?

Attack the drug dealers car, but the next choice is: do you really want to eliminate the drugs, or take over his business?  That's how good things go bad.

As the Russians say, It would be a shame to waste all that enterprise and profit!

Gangs seem to form just fine with government.

Yes they do, proving that it is a basic human instinct to exist in social groups.

Maddog wrote:Or are you suggesting the UK or Russia don't have much government?

I see no equivalency between the UK and Russia.

As for the Russian Federation alone, no it isn't much of a government.  It is  essentially organized crime that serves some of the functions of government.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:08 pm

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I'm to the point where I'm worried about the cops killing the wrong person, before a citizen. And at least with a citizen, they will get punished. Cops get paid vacations for shooting innocent people.

Bad cops and vigilante groups are both wrong end of story.

Force against the innocent is the problem.

I have no problems with force against people trying to harm or steal from someone else. Sometimes folks defending their lives or property are called vigilantes. I have no use for true vigilantes.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Original Quill on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:14 pm

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

Bad cops and vigilante groups are both wrong end of story.

Force against the innocent is the problem.

Quite a naive statement there, Red.  Define ''innocent' and define 'force'.  Your guns are not force, are they?

Maddog wrote:I have no problems with force against people trying to harm or steal from someone else. Sometimes folks defending their lives or property are called vigilantes. I have no use for true vigilantes.

If we eliminated 'private' property, wouldn't that solve the problem?  Like...if we decriminalize marijuana, problem solved.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:18 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Force against the innocent is the problem.

Quite a naive statement there, Red.  Define ''innocent' and define 'force'.  Your guns are not force, are they?

Maddog wrote:I have no problems with force against people trying to harm or steal from someone else. Sometimes folks defending their lives or property are called vigilantes. I have no use for true vigilantes.

If we eliminated 'private' property, wouldn't that solve the problem?  Like...if we decriminalize marijuana, problem solved.

Yeah right. What would you do if someone pulled a knife and wanted your daughters wedding ring. Look at him perplexed and wonder if he is innocent, or tell them to go ahead and take her ring, because you don't believe in private property? Rolling Eyes

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Cass on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:24 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Quite a naive statement there, Red.  Define ''innocent' and define 'force'.  Your guns are not force, are they?



If we eliminated 'private' property, wouldn't that solve the problem?  Like...if we decriminalize marijuana, problem solved.

Yeah right. What would you do if someone pulled a knife and wanted your daughters wedding ring. Look at him perplexed and wonder if he is innocent, or tell them to go ahead and take her ring, because you don't believe in private property? Rolling Eyes  

Give him the ring. It can be replaced. Daughters can’t.

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Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:34 pm

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Yeah right. What would you do if someone pulled a knife and wanted your daughters wedding ring. Look at him perplexed and wonder if he is innocent, or tell them to go ahead and take her ring, because you don't believe in private property? Rolling Eyes  

Give him the ring. It can be replaced. Daughters can’t.

Not me. My daughters can outrun most men, especially with me beating on that man's ass. You point a knife at one of my daughters, and it's show time.

But that's not really the point now is it? If there is no private property, then there is no crime here. But I think most sane people would look at the knife wielder as a criminal, and the ring as their daughter's private property.

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Post by Cass on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:40 pm

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

Give him the ring. It can be replaced. Daughters can’t.

Not me. My daughters can outrun most men, especially with me beating on that man's ass. You point a knife at one of my daughters, and it's show time.

But that's not really the point now is it? If there is no private property, then there is no crime here. But I think most sane people would look at the knife wielder as a criminal, and the ring as their daughter's private property.

Ok. That’s your call. I just don’t believe in running the risk of getting hurt or killed or taking another person’s life over something, that while it may be sentimental and precious, can be replaced.

If it’s a life or death situation for me or my family then that’s a different story.

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Post by Guest on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:49 pm

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Yeah right. What would you do if someone pulled a knife and wanted your daughters wedding ring. Look at him perplexed and wonder if he is innocent, or tell them to go ahead and take her ring, because you don't believe in private property? Rolling Eyes  

Give him the ring. It can be replaced. Daughters can’t.


Have a green, daughter or ring, no contest.

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Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:50 pm

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Not me. My daughters can outrun most men, especially with me beating on that man's ass. You point a knife at one of my daughters, and it's show time.

But that's not really the point now is it? If there is no private property, then there is no crime here. But I think most sane people would look at the knife wielder as a criminal, and the ring as their daughter's private property.

Ok. That’s your call. I just don’t believe in running the risk of getting hurt or killed or taking another person’s life over something, that while it may be sentimental and precious, can be replaced.

If it’s a life or death situation for me or my family then that’s a different story.

Well, how do you know they stop at the ring?

And the second part of my comment is more germane anyway.

Is there any question in your mind if the person if the knife is committing a crime, or who the owner of the ring is?


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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:52 pm

sassy wrote:
Cass wrote:

Give him the ring. It can be replaced. Daughters can’t.


Have a green, daughter or ring, no contest.

I choose my daughter too. Wink


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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:52 pm

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

Give him the ring. It can be replaced. Daughters can’t.

Not me. My daughters can outrun most men, especially with me beating on that man's ass. You point a knife at one of my daughters, and it's show time.

But that's not really the point now is it? If there is no private property, then there is no crime here. But I think most sane people would look at the knife wielder as a criminal, and the ring as their daughter's private property.

Really?   And what if they tripped and fell and he beat you instead.   I've lost a daughter, there is no way I'd be worried about a ring and I wouldn't take the chance.     If he was threatening to kill them, that's another story.  I have no idea why anyone would put a bit of gold before the life of their daughter.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:55 pm

sassy wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Not me. My daughters can outrun most men, especially with me beating on that man's ass. You point a knife at one of my daughters, and it's show time.

But that's not really the point now is it? If there is no private property, then there is no crime here. But I think most sane people would look at the knife wielder as a criminal, and the ring as their daughter's private property.

Really?   And what if they tripped and fell and he beat you instead.   I've lost a daughter, there is no way I'd be worried about a ring and I wouldn't take the chance.     If he was threatening to kill them, that's another story.  I have no idea why anyone would put a bit of gold before the life of their daughter.

He has a fucking knife. At that point, you assume he is capable of using it.

You are a female. Your ability to stop a grown man is far inferior to mine, so you have to act different than I do.



But that's not really the point now is it? If there is no private property, then there is no crime here. But I think most sane people would look at the knife wielder as a criminal, and the ring as their daughter's private property


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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:07 pm

Maddog wrote:
sassy wrote:

Really?   And what if they tripped and fell and he beat you instead.   I've lost a daughter, there is no way I'd be worried about a ring and I wouldn't take the chance.     If he was threatening to kill them, that's another story.  I have no idea why anyone would put a bit of gold before the life of their daughter.

He has a fucking knife. At that point, you assume he is capable of using it.

You are a female. Your ability to stop a grown man is far inferior to mine, so you have to act different than I do.



But that's not really the point now is it? If there is no private property, then there is no crime here. But I think most sane people would look at the knife wielder as a criminal, and the ring as their daughter's private property



As far as I'm concerned, you have to be out of your tree. I've been in situations where I have been in danger, I used my head and didn't get hurt.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:08 pm

sassy wrote:
Maddog wrote:

He has a fucking knife. At that point, you assume he is capable of using it.

You are a female. Your ability to stop a grown man is far inferior to mine, so you have to act different than I do.



But that's not really the point now is it? If there is no private property, then there is no crime here. But I think most sane people would look at the knife wielder as a criminal, and the ring as their daughter's private property



As far as I'm concerned, you have to be out of your tree.  I've been in situations where I have been in danger, I used my head and didn't get hurt.

But that's not really the point now is it? If there is no private property, then there is no crime here. But I think most sane people would look at the knife wielder as a criminal, and the ring as their daughter's private property

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:15 pm

Maddog wrote:
sassy wrote:


As far as I'm concerned, you have to be out of your tree.  I've been in situations where I have been in danger, I used my head and didn't get hurt.

But that's not really the point now is it? If there is no private property, then there is no crime here. But I think most sane people would look at the knife wielder as a criminal, and the ring as their daughter's private property

What the fuck are you going on about. You think that makes a point? It just makes you stupid.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:19 pm

sassy wrote:
Maddog wrote:

But that's not really the point now is it? If there is no private property, then there is no crime here. But I think most sane people would look at the knife wielder as a criminal, and the ring as their daughter's private property

What the fuck are you going on about.  You think that makes a point?   It just makes you stupid.

It was my main point. 3 posts ago.

Sorry you missed it. Wink

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:26 pm

Maddog wrote:
sassy wrote:

What the fuck are you going on about.  You think that makes a point?   It just makes you stupid.

It was my main point. 3 posts ago.

Sorry you missed it.  Wink

I didn't miss it, I thought it was bloody stupid and I still think it was bloody stupid. Who said he wasn't a criminal? Who said the ring isn't private property? So bloody what? When it comes to lives being lost who the hell cares.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:29 pm

sassy wrote:
Maddog wrote:

It was my main point. 3 posts ago.

Sorry you missed it.  Wink

I didn't miss it, I thought it was bloody stupid and I still think it was bloody stupid.   Who said he wasn't a criminal?   Who said the ring isn't private property?   So bloody what?   When it comes to lives being lost who the hell cares.

Quill did. I was talking to him. Cool

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:34 pm

Maddog wrote:
sassy wrote:

I didn't miss it, I thought it was bloody stupid and I still think it was bloody stupid.   Who said he wasn't a criminal?   Who said the ring isn't private property?   So bloody what?   When it comes to lives being lost who the hell cares.

Quill did. I was talking to him.  Cool

No you weren't, you quoted me.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:39 pm

sassy wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Quill did. I was talking to him.  Cool

No you weren't, you quoted me.

Yeah right. What would you do if someone pulled a knife and wanted your daughters wedding ring. Look at him perplexed and wonder if he is innocent, or tell them to go ahead and take her ring, because you don't believe in private property?



Here is where it started, and it started with Quill.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:46 pm

Maddog wrote:
sassy wrote:

No you weren't, you quoted me.

Yeah right. What would you do if someone pulled a knife and wanted your daughters wedding ring. Look at him perplexed and wonder if he is innocent, or tell them to go ahead and take her ring, because you don't believe in private property?



Here is where it started, and it started with Quill.  

The don't say it when you reply to me. Easy Wink

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:26 pm

sassy wrote:
Cass wrote:

True.

But also it’s the whole concept of vigilantes. One day they will target an innocent person as has happened and that person ends up with their life ruined or dead.

They will not deter criminals at all.

Already happened.  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2514945/Vigilante-murderer-killed-Bijan-Ebrahimi-mistaking-paedophile-jailed.html

What they did was criminal, whatever their 'reasons'.   How about these 'pillars of the community' stop voting for a government that strips the police force to the bare bone, and then takes the arm and leg bones for good measure.  https://fullfact.org/crime/police-funding-england-and-wales/ if they want to police to do their job properly, because at the moment, they can't, and they acknowledge it.

As the Fire Service have also suffered from the same amount of cuts, will these big, brave vigilantes be rushing into burning buildings to save people.   Bet your life they won't.   People who are vigilantes have an innate streak of violence in them that they want to get away with using, passing it off as 'doing something for the community'.   Taking an axe to a car, step one, taking an axe to a person, step two.


I wonder what Sassy thinks of this 'vigilante' group...?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-23266288



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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:35 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
sassy wrote:

Already happened.  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2514945/Vigilante-murderer-killed-Bijan-Ebrahimi-mistaking-paedophile-jailed.html

What they did was criminal, whatever their 'reasons'.   How about these 'pillars of the community' stop voting for a government that strips the police force to the bare bone, and then takes the arm and leg bones for good measure.  https://fullfact.org/crime/police-funding-england-and-wales/ if they want to police to do their job properly, because at the moment, they can't, and they acknowledge it.

As the Fire Service have also suffered from the same amount of cuts, will these big, brave vigilantes be rushing into burning buildings to save people.   Bet your life they won't.   People who are vigilantes have an innate streak of violence in them that they want to get away with using, passing it off as 'doing something for the community'.   Taking an axe to a car, step one, taking an axe to a person, step two.


I wonder what Sassy thinks of this 'vigilante' group...?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-23266288



How about they use their energies on pressurising the government to start funding a decent police force again (and if you read above I have already put the FactCheck on the way they are running them down). We don't want anarchy and people putting themselves in danger, we need a decent police force. Civilians running around playing at it can only lead to a disaster.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:49 pm

sassy wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


I wonder what Sassy thinks of this 'vigilante' group...?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-23266288



How about they use their energies on pressurising the government to start funding a decent police force again (and if you read above I have already put the FactCheck on the way they are running them down).   We don't want anarchy and people putting themselves in danger, we need a decent police force.   Civilians running around playing at it can only lead to a disaster.


The police already get record levels of funding... the problem is the ever more increasing levels of bureaucratic lefty PC nonsense that is not only just sucking money out of the system, but also a heavy burden of time wasting form filling and box ticking, as well as completely shackling the police ability to do the job of targeting and arresting those known to be up to no good!!!



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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:10 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
sassy wrote:

How about they use their energies on pressurising the government to start funding a decent police force again (and if you read above I have already put the FactCheck on the way they are running them down).   We don't want anarchy and people putting themselves in danger, we need a decent police force.   Civilians running around playing at it can only lead to a disaster.


The police already get record levels of funding... the problem is the ever more increasing levels of bureaucratic lefty PC nonsense that is not only just sucking money out of the system, but also a heavy burden of time wasting form filling and box ticking, as well as completely shackling the police ability to do the job of targeting and arresting those known to be up to no good!!!




Do you work at being thick? I already told you the link to the Factchecker on police funding but you are obviously too stupid to read it.:


Police funding in England and Wales

In December 2017, the government announced that police funding is set to ‘increase by £450 million in 2018’.

Compared to 2017, there are no changes in the size of the grants each police force receives from the government. Since inflation is currently at around 2.8% (as of November 2017), these budgets are likely facing real terms reductions in funding.

So this extra money is either coming from other sources, or going to other areas of police spending.

A maximum of £270 million is being raised by allowing police and crime commissioners (PCCs) to raise council tax in their areas, by up to £1 a month for a ‘typical’ band D household. They already have the power to raise local taxes to an extent, but the recent announcement allows for greater increases without having to trigger a local referendum.

An extra £50 million is being spent on counter terrorism operations. This includes £24 million extra announced in September 2017, and is on top of the government commitment to “spend 30% more overall in real terms on key counter-terrorism capabilities over the Parliament”.

The remaining £130 million has been set aside for special grants to meet unexpected costs for events such as terrorist incidents, and for improving the technology used by police forces.

Police funding fell from 2010/11 to 2015/16


That’s according to estimates compiled by the National Audit Office. [b]Overall funding fell by 18%, taking inflation into account. That compares to a 31% increase in funding between 2000/01 and 2010/11

That 18% isn’t what the government itself has cut from the budget. Direct government funding has fallen by 25% over the same period. Most of the police budget comes from central government, but forces can also raise money locally via council taxes and this pot increased slightly over the period. That’s why, overall, it’s an 18% loss of funding.

This varies a lot locally. That 18% average ranges from a 12% fall in Surrey police force to a 23% fall in Northumbria. This is mainly because some forces, like Northumbria, rely more heavily on government grants and don’t raise as much locally. Surrey, by contrast, was the only police force last year to raise more money locally than it got from the government.

As mentioned above, the amount they can choose raise from council tax has just been increased. The effect on the funding for a particular police force depends on the response from their PCC. They could choose to raise taxes by the full amount, or choose to raise them by less than this, or not at all

Across England and Wales for 2018/19, 68% of funding received by police forces is set to come from central government, and 32% from local taxation.

Police funding is devolved in Scotland and there are separate arrangements for Northern Ireland.
Government funding to the police will fall this parliament, but local forces can raise the difference themselves

The 2015 Spending Review promised to “protect overall police spending in real terms over the Spending Review period”—up to 2019/20, and that’s reflected in more detailed estimates the government has published.

The central government part of that is actually expected to fall in real terms. It only stays flat overall if local Police and Crime Commissioners raise the maximum they’re allowed to. The new announcements raise that maximum, but it’s too early to tell how each PCC will respond.

The government plans to spend 30% more on counter-terrorism by the end of the decade

A small part of government police funding is ring-fenced for counter-terrorism, but the allocations to local areas aren’t published for security reasons.

In 2018/19, £757 million has been set aside for counter-terrorism from government resource funding of about £9.4 billion.

LINK ALREADY SUPPLIED


And any money that local government puts into the police force takes away from the monies for social care, housing, street lighting, rubbish collection and all the other stuff that councils are in charge of.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:26 pm



"In December 2017, the government announced that police funding is set to ‘increase by £450 million in 2018’.


From Sassys above post.



So... how about answering my points...!?


Are you denying the 'ever more increasing levels of bureaucratic lefty PC nonsense that is not only just sucking money out of the system, but also a heavy burden of time wasting form filling and box ticking, as well as completely shackling the police ability to do the job of targeting and arresting those known to be up to no good'...!?



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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:38 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

"In December 2017, the government announced that police funding is set to ‘increase by £450 million in 2018’.

FOLLOWED BY THE SENTENCE: Compared to 2017, there are no changes in the size of the grants each police force receives from the government. Since inflation is currently at around 2.8% (as of November 2017), these budgets are likely facing real terms reductions in funding.



From Sassys above post.



So... how about answering my points...!?


Are you denying the 'ever more increasing levels of bureaucratic lefty PC nonsense that is not only just sucking money out of the system, but also a heavy burden of time wasting form filling and box ticking, as well as completely shackling the police ability to do the job of targeting and arresting those known to be up to no good'...!?


So you don't want the police to be accountable and professional, you just want them to run around going, bang bang you're dead.  Prat.





You obviously can't read and understand the factcheck.   I'm quite surprised you can remember how to breathe.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:48 pm

sassy wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

"In December 2017, the government announced that police funding is set to ‘increase by £450 million in 2018’.

FOLLOWED BY THE SENTENCE: Compared to 2017, there are no changes in the size of the grants each police force receives from the government. Since inflation is currently at around 2.8% (as of November 2017), these budgets are likely facing real terms reductions in funding.



From Sassys above post.



So... how about answering my points...!?


Are you denying the 'ever more increasing levels of bureaucratic lefty PC nonsense that is not only just sucking money out of the system, but also a heavy burden of time wasting form filling and box ticking, as well as completely shackling the police ability to do the job of targeting and arresting those known to be up to no good'...!?


So you don't want the police to be accountable and professional, you just want them to run around going, bang bang you're dead.  Prat.





You obviously can't read and understand the factcheck.   I'm quite surprised you can remember how to breathe.


What was the sentence after your big bold red bit...!?


"So this extra money is either coming from other sources, or going to other areas of police spending."



How about answering my question...!?



Are you denying the 'ever more increasing levels of bureaucratic lefty PC nonsense that is not only just sucking money out of the system, but also a heavy burden of time wasting form filling and box ticking, as well as completely shackling the police ability to do the job of targeting and arresting those known to be up to no good'...!?



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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:22 am


Has Sassy run away as well... again...!?



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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:33 am

Quote Sassy...

"So you don't want the police to be accountable and professional, you just want them to run around going, bang bang you're dead. Prat."




How much of the 'ever more increasing levels of bureaucratic lefty PC nonsense that is not only just sucking money out of the system, but also a heavy burden of time wasting form filling and box ticking, as well as completely shackling the police ability to do the job of targeting and arresting those known to be up to no good'... is stopping them all "running around going, bang bang you're dead"...!?


lol!




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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Cass on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:50 am

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:

Ok. That’s your call. I just don’t believe in running the risk of getting hurt or killed or taking another person’s life over something, that while it may be sentimental and precious, can be replaced.

If it’s a life or death situation for me or my family then that’s a different story.

Well, how do you know they stop at the ring?

And the second part of my comment is more germane anyway.

Is there any question in your mind if the person if the knife is committing a crime, or who the owner of the ring is?

They can have everything on me. Of course I don’t know if they’ll stop, but I’m certainly not going to antagonize them.

Of course they’re committing a crime. Of course the ring is my private property but I’m not going to end up dead over it.

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Re: 'You’re playing with the wrong vigilantes!' Villagers patrol streets to tackle local crimewave - and even post video of themselves destroying a drug dealer's car with a forklift truck

Post by Maddog on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:00 am

Cass wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Well, how do you know they stop at the ring?

And the second part of my comment is more germane anyway.

Is there any question in your mind if the person if the knife is committing a crime, or who the owner of the ring is?

They can have everything on me. Of course I don’t know if they’ll stop, but I’m certainly not going to antagonize them.

Of course they’re committing a crime. Of course the ring is my private property but I’m not going to end up dead over it.

OK, we agree that they are committing a crime. Quill wasn't sure.

We agree that the ring is private property. Quill doesn't believe in the idea of private property (Although I'm sure he doesn't want to surrender any of his).

I didn't say what I would do if they approached me. I would likely hand over the stuff too. That's a far different scenario than them demanding something from my daughters. That would be a different line they had crossed. And because I am capable of delivering exponentially more violence than you, I can act different than you. I would imagine in my day to day activities, I do things that would make you reconsider what you are doing. I imagine when I get older, and less sure of my physical abilities, I will act more "intelligent" and minimize risk.

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