No justice for Poppi.

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No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

Poppi Worthington was anally penetrated by her father before being left in an "unsafe" sleeping environment and dying from asphyxia, a senior corner concluded yesterday. Her father Paul Worthington has refused to answer any questions about the night Poppy died and is unlikely to ever stand trial.
Poppi died five years ago, she suffered bleeding, bruising and tears to her bottom caused by sexual assault before she died. Poppi was in the care of her father, and her mother, who was sleeping downstairs, the mothers identity has remained private for legal reasons.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/alison-phillips-no-justice-little-11862876


"By rights Poppi Worthington should be at school this morning.
She should be sat in a Year One classroom practising her reading or painting rainbows.
Instead she has spent the last five years in a Cumbrian graveyard denied all that life could offer.
What’s more she has been denied justice by an incompetent police investigation, a pathetic justice system, and ultimately, by her deviant father.
On Monday, at Kendal Coroner’s Court, came the third judgement concluding 13-month-old Poppi was sexually assaulted in the hours before her death in December 2012.
No one can be certain how she actually died, because only she and her father Paul Worthington were in the bedroom that night. And Worthington has consistently refused to say a single word about it.
So while little Poppi has lain in that windswept cemetery, let’s consider what’s happened to the othermain players in this terrible saga.


Her father is being kept in a witness protection scheme costing taxpayers like you and me £50,000 per year.
He is likely to remain that way from now on which means we’ll probably shell out the best part of a million pounds over his worthless lifetime.
And even when he declined 252 times to answer questions about Poppi’s death at the most recent inquest, still his payday continues.


Meanwhile, there are the police officers who so fouled up the investigation into the baby’s death that by the time they questioned Worthington there was insufficient evidence to charge him.
The mistakes were multiple.
A report by the Independent Police Complaints Commission concluded two officers had a case to answer for gross misconduct.
But one retired on a full pension before disciplinary action could be taken. The other was demoted, but still retired on a police pension too. Again, paid for by us the taxpayers.


And then there is the South Cumbria coroner Ian Smith who in 2014 took just seven minutes to declare Poppi’s death "unexplained".

And of course the taxpayer-funded CPS who said there was "insufficient evidence" in July 2016 to charge Paul Worthington.


It is a litany of incompetence, negligence and inaction. While Paul Worthington has been rewarded for abuse. Not to mention what hasn’t been proved about him.

So, all in all, life has turned out OK for Worthington, the failed police officers, the seven-minute coroner and the crown prosecutors.

And Poppi? No, life didn’t turn out at all.
Betrayed in death as she was in life.
And it is an absolute disgrace."


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/poppi-worthington-justice-what-happens-11856666


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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Cass on Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:36 pm

Syl wrote:
Cass wrote:

I applaud your perseverance. Alas it will be futile. Save yourself the trouble. Sane people know what happened.

I have persevered because this case has been shunted back and forwards for years Cass.
No one has ever been held accountable, the main reason being the police made such horrendous cockups from the start.
Vital evidence was lost....I truly believe the more this case and its outcome is discussed, just maybe public outcry will be so loud that the authorities, including the cps will hopefully decide this case isn't over and done with and buried like Poppi, whilst the man who raped and murdered her walks free.

There is no point carrying on in here though, some people are blinkered.

I was referring exactly to your last sentence.

As to the authorities looking at it again? I hope so but after declining to do the same to the taxi guy case I fear not.

I just hope she didn’t suffer too much and that her mother can try and go on. And I believe strongly in Karma. It will find him. X

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:35 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Five years after her death, what really happened to 13-month-old Poppi Worthington has finally been publicly examined by a full inquest. Senior coroner for Cumbria David Roberts will now spend a month drawing his conclusions. What evidence has he heard?
Almost 40 people have given evidence during the three-week inquest at Kendal's County Hall.
These have included Poppi's family, experts who fundamentally disagree about what happened, the police who failed to properly investigate and Poppi's father, who denies any wrong-doing.
Poppi died on 12 December 2012 and this is the second inquest into her death. The first, in 2014, ended after just seven minutes and concluded the cause of death was "unascertained".
Poppi's mother
According to her lawyers, Poppi's mother, who has been granted anonymity, just wants a clear answer to the question that has haunted her.
What happened to her "bubbly and funny" daughter?
She told the coroner she spent the night of 11 December sleeping on the sofa in the living room of her three-bedroom home in Barrow.
At some point she heard Poppi scream loudly. She described it as a similar scream to one the 13-month-old had made during the day when she appeared to have a pain in her stomach.
The night-time scream was quickly followed by the creak of her bedroom floorboard - a sign, she recalled, that her partner Paul Worthington had gone to check on their daughter.
She was then woken shortly before 06:00 by Mr Worthington shouting their girl was not breathing, she said.
He performed CPR while she called 999.
Poppi was rushed to Furness General Hospital but, at 07:07, she was declared dead, her heart having never resumed beating.
Poppi's father
Paul Worthington, who was given a police escort to the inquest amid fears for his safety, has been living a "nightmare" for the last five years, according to his lawyers.
He has never been charged with any offence and denies responsibility, but the suspicion he abused his daughter has "ruined the rest of his life", they said.
Those suspicions were first raised by Dr Osama Braima, a consultant paediatrician at Furness General Hospital, who noticed blood coming from Poppi's bottom.
Mr Worthington was told by the coroner the inquest was an opportunity to state his case publicly.
Mr Worthington refused to answer 252 questions - 69 on the first day and a further 183 on the second - citing his right under rule 22 of the Coroners and Justice Act not to incriminate himself.
The inquest did hear previous statements he had made, though, in which he claimed he heard Poppi cry out at 05:45 and found her sitting upright in her cot, rigid, as if she had had a nightmare.
He then left her on his bed while he went to get a fresh nappy, he had said. When he returned 90 seconds later Poppi seemed to be asleep, so he let her be for a moment.
When, a few minutes later, he touched her arm it was floppy and he realised she was not breathing.
Eleven hours after Poppi's death, the police asked to take swabs from Mr Worthington, to which he agreed.
His daughter's DNA was found on his penis but the location of it "tends to exclude" the possibility he had assaulted her, Michael Scarborough, the forensic scientist who tested it, said.
Mr Worthington's lawyers said the DNA had been transferred from his hands when he went to the toilet.
His DNA was not found on Poppi.
The accusing pathologist
Dr Alison Armour, a Home Office pathologist for 30 years, carried out the three-hour post-mortem examination of Poppi five days after her death.
The delay, caused by the unavailability of her and a colleague, was not unusual and would not have affected her findings, Dr Armour said.
Before she examined Poppi she saw a skeletal survey which revealed an old fracture to Poppi's leg.
The fact it had never been reported suggested to her the child had been abused, she said.
She was also told about previous police matters regarding Mr Worthington which had come to nothing.
An allegation had been made against him, which was later retracted, and he had been informally interviewed by police over an unrelated association with someone suspected of committing offences against children.
Mr Worthington's lawyers said Dr Armour was therefore "tainted" against him from the outset, something she denies.
Findings which caused her concern included an internal bruise, small haemorrhages and tiny tears in Poppi's bottom and the fact Poppi's bottom was dilated.
She said these indicated abuse but others strongly disagreed with her conclusion.
Dr Armour also said haemorrhages in Poppi's throat and lungs could have been caused by acute upper airways obstruction, for example if she had been smothered by being laid face down on a bed. These findings also drew strong disagreement from other experts.
She concluded that Poppi's death was unascertained but there was no natural cause.
The disagreements
Dr Nat Cary, a Home Office pathologist for 25 years, reviewed Dr Armour's findings and led the argument against her.
If Poppi had been abused he would have expected to see much more evidence, he said.
Such attacks do not cause "subtle" injuries, he said.
The condition of Poppi's bottom that caused Dr Armour to conclude abuse is a common phenomenon in child deaths, Dr Cary said.
He disputed that an internal mark classed as a bruise was anything of the sort.
The haemorrhages in Poppi's throat and chest were likely caused by the pro-longed resuscitation attempts, he told the inquest.
Dr Cary agreed Poppi's death was unascertained, and stated it was "unascertainable".
But, just because no natural cause had been found, it did not mean there was not one, he said.
Dr Liina Palm, a consultant in paediatric pathology, said some of the marks seen by Dr Armour could be a "post-mortem phenomenon" which arose in the five days between death and post-mortem examination.
Dr Alan Sprigg, consultant paediatric radiologist, and Prof Anthony Freemont, a histopathologist, said the bone fracture that caused concern for Dr Armour could have been accidental.
Dr Stephen Leadbeatter, a consultant forensic pathologist, agreed with Dr Armour that a "unifying hypothesis" for Poppi's injuries was sexual assault.
But he still could not persuade himself there was enough evidence such an assault had taken place.
Dr Victoria Aziz, a forensic physician for the Metropolitan Police (who was asked to review Poppi's case in October 2014 by Cumbria Police) said she was "pretty sure" there had been no assault.
She said in her 26 years' experience such assaults would produce much more severe injuries.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-42299057






Have any of you actually read the experts opinions that were given in evidence at the inquest...!?



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:04 pm

This report of last Decembers inquest highlights just how useless the police were when investigating Poppi's death.
DCI Mike Forrester was one of the higher officers in charge of the case.

In 2015, the Independent Police Complaints Commission  concluded that  Mr Forrester along with  Detective inspector Amanda Sadler had cases  to answer for gross misconduct.

Mr Forrester retired so no further action could be taken.
Ms Sadler was subjected to a disciplinary hearing  where gross incompetency was proven and she was demoted in rank.
She too has since retired.

http://www.timesandstar.co.uk/news/Poppi-inquest-Police-had-historical-intelligence-on-dad-0b102262-6c4a-446d-ada3-939fe0e5f720-ds

The latest news is Mike Forrester may now be brought back to face charges over misconduct in the way he handled the case.

"MP John Woodcock said he is seeking urgent clarification from the police watchdog over the scope of new regulations that allow police forces to bring proceedings against officers even if they retired before stronger laws came into effect.

The Labour MP for Barrow and Furness, where Poppi lived, said he hoped the new laws which came into effect last month will allow Cumbria police to bring former Detective Superintendent Mike Forrester back to face the disciplinary hearing."




https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/retired-officer-from-poppi-investigation-may-face-action-says-mp-vbw8wpw0b

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:05 pm

Cass wrote:
Syl wrote:

I have persevered because this case has been shunted back and forwards for years Cass.
No one has ever been held accountable, the main reason being the police made such horrendous cockups from the start.
Vital evidence was lost....I truly believe the more this case and its outcome is discussed, just maybe public outcry will be so loud that the authorities, including the cps will hopefully decide this case isn't over and done with and buried like Poppi, whilst the man who raped and murdered her walks free.

There is no point carrying on in here though, some people are blinkered.

I was referring exactly to your last sentence.

As to the authorities looking at it again? I hope so but after declining to do the same to the taxi guy case I fear not.

I just hope she didn’t suffer too much and that her mother can try and go on. And I believe strongly in Karma. It will find him. X

I believe in Karma too Cass. x

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:16 pm

Syl wrote:This report of last Decembers inquest highlights just how useless the police were when investigating Poppi's death.
DCI Mike Forrester was one of the higher officers in charge of the case.

In 2015, the Independent Police Complaints Commission  concluded that  Mr Forrester along with  Detective inspector Amanda Sadler had cases  to answer for gross misconduct.

Mr Forrester retired so no further action could be taken.
Ms Sadler was subjected to a disciplinary hearing  where gross incompetency was proven and she was demoted in rank.
She too has since retired.

http://www.timesandstar.co.uk/news/Poppi-inquest-Police-had-historical-intelligence-on-dad-0b102262-6c4a-446d-ada3-939fe0e5f720-ds

The latest news is Mike Forrester may now be brought back to face charges over misconduct in the way he handled the case.

"MP John Woodcock said he is seeking urgent clarification from the police watchdog over the scope of new regulations that allow police forces to bring proceedings against officers even if they retired before stronger laws came into effect.

The Labour MP for Barrow and Furness, where Poppi lived, said he hoped the new laws which came into effect last month will allow Cumbria police to bring former Detective Superintendent Mike Forrester back to face the disciplinary hearing."




https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/retired-officer-from-poppi-investigation-may-face-action-says-mp-vbw8wpw0b


It's not the police that I'm talking about...!!!


Look at what all the medical experts said!!!!!!






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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:30 pm

Dr Nat Cary, a Home Office pathologist for 25 years, reviewed Dr Armour's findings and led the argument against her.
If Poppi had been abused he would have expected to see much more evidence, he said.
Such attacks do not cause "subtle" injuries, he said.
The condition of Poppi's bottom that caused Dr Armour to conclude abuse is a common phenomenon in child deaths, Dr Cary said.
He disputed that an internal mark classed as a bruise was anything of the sort.
The haemorrhages in Poppi's throat and chest were likely caused by the pro-longed resuscitation attempts, he told the inquest.
Dr Cary agreed Poppi's death was unascertained, and stated it was "unascertainable".
But, just because no natural cause had been found, it did not mean there was not one, he said.
Dr Liina Palm, a consultant in paediatric pathology, said some of the marks seen by Dr Armour could be a "post-mortem phenomenon" which arose in the five days between death and post-mortem examination.
Dr Alan Sprigg, consultant paediatric radiologist, and Prof Anthony Freemont, a histopathologist, said the bone fracture that caused concern for Dr Armour could have been accidental.
Dr Stephen Leadbeatter, a consultant forensic pathologist, agreed with Dr Armour that a "unifying hypothesis" for Poppi's injuries was sexual assault.
But he still could not persuade himself there was enough evidence such an assault had taken place.
Dr Victoria Aziz, a forensic physician for the Metropolitan Police (who was asked to review Poppi's case in October 2014 by Cumbria Police) said she was "pretty sure" there had been no assault.
She said in her 26 years' experience such assaults would produce much more severe injuries.





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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:32 pm

Tommy, the medical experts could not agree.
You are simply finding reports that more support your view. Other reports taken from the inquest give a different slant.

After the inquest the verdict was given.....which was......

."David Roberts, senior coroner for Cumbria, concluded on Monday that on the balance of probabilities the 13-month-old toddler was abused by her father Paul – the third court judgment against him."


So go and argue Worthington is innocent with him.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Original Quill on Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:49 pm

Syl wrote:Tommy, the medical experts could not agree.

And that's why you don't have a prosecution. A defense lawyer would have a field day.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:58 pm

Syl... all (except one) of the medical experts agreed that there was no sexual assault...!!!


Earlier in this thread you claimed the child had 'horrific' and 'serious' anal injuries...!


THIS IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE!!!


READ THE FACTS GIVEN IN EVIDENCE AT THE INQUEST!!!


(in the BBC link above)



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:23 pm

This was the final conclusion by the senior coroner.


"Today's conclusion

David Roberts, senior coroner for Cumbria, ruled today the 13-month-old had been sexually assaulted by her father just before her death.
He concluded Poppi died from asphyxia - a condition where the supply of oxygen is severely restricted - after Mr Worthington brought her into his double bed to abuse her and she was left unable to breathe after the assault.
Mr Roberts said he thinks the broad sequence of events went as follows:
Poppi was taken from her cot by her father Paul Worthington, placed on the double bed and penetrated.
Poppi did not die during or shortly after penetration, however, as "there must have been a period of bleeding afterwards".

After an unknown length of time, Poppi died as a "result of her ability to breathe being compromised by an unsafe sleeping environment".

"Only Paul Worthington can provide an account of what happened upstairs," Mr Roberts said. "All his accounts suggest at some point he removed her from her cot to his bed.

"His accounts differ and I was unable to form a view on his honesty and credibility because he answered so few of my questions."

Poppi suffered bleeding, bruising and tears to her bottom caused by sexual assault before she died.

Mr Roberts reached a "narrative" conclusion and did not conclude the tot was unlawfully killed.

Dr Alison Armour, one of the drs who examined Poppis body reported..." Poppi Worthington suffered a 'penetrative' sexual assault 'by a penis or penis-shaped object' before her death, an inquest heard."

Poppy was a tiny 13 month old girl.

Tommy, you believe what you want to, I will read the reports and  conclusion of the final inquest and believe what I believe.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by magica on Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:28 pm

Well said Syl. You can't argue with facts.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:18 pm

The facts are in the BBC link I posted... plus evidence from the medical experts who say otherwise...!


The first person to say that they noticed any 'bleeding' was a dr at the hospital long AFTER she had died...!


And this was AFTER the dead child had been seen by the mother, who called the emergency services... after the father had tried to save her with CPR... after the emergency ambulance/medics had arrived and seen her as they too tried to revive her with CPR... and after numerous other hospital medics/staff had seen her after her arrival at the hospital and after some of them too had worked on her with CPR...!!!


Surely one or more of these people would have noticed any 'anal bleeding', had it been happening before all of this...!?


Especially as it is said that the child wasn't wearing any nappy/pj bottoms during all this time...!?


Do you really think that so many people, mother/father & so many emergency medics/hospital staff, would have failed to notice bleeding from the anus, if it was happening before the other dr says he noticed it so long after she had died...!?


Sounds very much to me that if there was any bleeding, then this occurred long after she had died, and after her arrival at hospital, and after undergoing extensive CPR...!!!



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:00 pm

magica wrote:Well said Syl. You can't argue with facts.


Read the BBC link I posted... full of facts... full of expert medical professionals opinions...!


The coroner is supposed to base his opinion on the facts/expert evidence provided at the inquest... it is clear to me that he has got it very wrong here...!


Something really stinks about all this...!



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:37 am

magica wrote:Well said Syl. You can't argue with facts.

Thanks Mags.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:27 am

Syl... please... stop for a minute... take a step back... take a breath... take a moment to calm down...


I am on the same side as you on beliefs of what punishments should be dished out to child murderers/nonces/fraggles etc...


In fact, if there was a queue for volunteers to line up in, to get to carry out the punishments, then I'm pretty sure we would both be right up the front, arguing about which one of us was gonna be first to get stuck in...!!!


But having read the details of the inquest evidence, and all the medical experts testimonies... I honestly believe that the father didn't do anything to deliberately harm the child the night she died...!



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:12 pm

Latest news...there will be no justice for little Poppi Worthington.

"Poppi Worthington death: Outcry as father escapes trial.

A SENIOR prosecutor last night criticised the shock decision to allow the father of toddler Poppi Worthington to avoid facing trial for her death.

Poppi died suddenly in suspicious circumstances aged 13 months in 2012 at the family home in Barrow, Cumbria.
In 2016 Judge Mr Justice Jackson declared that she was sexually assaulted by her father Paul Worthington, 49, before she died.
In January a coroner echoed the judge’s view and agreed the ex-Asda worker probably sexually assaulted “fit and active” Poppi.

Yesterday the Crown Prosecution Service announced that the inquest offered no fresh evidence to enable it to charge Worthington.

In 2013 Nazir Afzal, the chief of the CPS in north-west England, was unable to charge Mr Worthington due to a series of alleged police forensic blunders.
Yesterday he said the CPS decision to close the case will leave Poppi’s mother without any justice.
He added: “The decision is not unexpected, but is nevertheless very disappointing.
“I realise how upsetting this will be to Poppi’s mother and I share her sense of disappointment.”
Mr Afzal – who led the prosecution of the Rochdale child grooming gang – added: “I had a strong suspicion Poppi died after being sexually abused by her father.
“I was given a case file by the police that had so many gaps that I was left with no choice.
Mr Afzal’s anger was echoed by Barrow MP John Woodcock and Poppi’s mother, who cannot be named for legal reasons.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/932588/Poppi-Worthington-Paul-Worthington-death-no-trial-prosecution-CPS-Cumbria-outcry

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by magica on Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:47 pm

I read this today, I'm utterly sick. This paedophile got away with this.

If his semen was found on her bottom, he assaulted her and killed her.

This isn't justice for Poppi, its a bloody farce! Evil or Very Mad

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:18 pm

Its utterly sickening.
The police made so many mistakes that vital evidence was lost forever.

Poppi's father refused to answer police questions, and even though the experts have always believed he raped and murdered her they say there was not enough proof thanks to the police cockups..

No new evidence has come forwards, so the CPS are refusing another review of the case....her rapist and murderer will not stand trial

Its a bloody farce.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by magica on Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:39 pm

Life can be so unfair Syl. He's literally got away with murder. I hope karma catches up with him.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:49 pm

Well by all accounts he is living in fear.....good.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by magica on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:57 pm

Oh diddums, hope his nightmare comes true.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:02 pm

His semen was not found on the girl... and other experts have said no evidence of sexual assault...



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:25 pm

magica wrote:I read this today, I'm utterly sick. This paedophile got away with this.

If his semen was found on her bottom, he assaulted her and killed her.

This isn't justice for Poppi, its a bloody farce! Evil or Very Mad
His semen wasnt found on Poppi Mags.
Her dna was found on his penis, but his explanation for that was believed.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:09 pm

If anyone feels strongly about this please sign the petition.


To launch a public inquiry into the failings in the Poppi Worthington case.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/210024

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Original Quill on Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:24 pm

Syl wrote:If anyone feels strongly about this please sign the petition.


To launch a public inquiry into the failings in the Poppi Worthington case.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/210024

What do you want to see done? It's unclear.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by magica on Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:09 pm

Syl wrote:If anyone feels strongly about this please sign the petition.


To launch a public inquiry into the failings in the Poppi Worthington case.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/210024

Signed Syl.

Yes it was DNA I keep getting that muddled Embarassed

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:14 pm

magica wrote:
Syl wrote:If anyone feels strongly about this please sign the petition.


To launch a public inquiry into the failings in the Poppi Worthington case.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/210024

Signed Syl.

Yes it was DNA I keep getting that muddled Embarassed

Have a thanks for signing Mags, lots more signatures are needed.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:If anyone feels strongly about this please sign the petition.


To launch a public inquiry into the failings in the Poppi Worthington case.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/210024

What do you want to see done?  It's unclear.

This makes it clearer Quill.

We call on the Prime Minister to order a public inquiry to make recommendations to:
- improve child safeguarding processes

- strengthen the police disciplinary process
- determine whether Cumbria Police has truly learnt the lessons of this case
- examine whether the resources provided to agencies involved in child protection to fulfil their safeguarding responsibilities."

Following the petition's launch, MP John Woodcock said: "This is our chance for the community to speak as one and demand a public inquiry into Poppi Worthington's death. Let’s all sign and spread word of this petition far and wide; let’s convince the government to honour Poppi’s memory by launching a petition that can restore public confidence in our police and make children across the country safer.



http://www.nwemail.co.uk/news/barrow/Poppi-Worthington-public-inquiry-petition-goes-live-b54376e2-d5a4-4b51-89f1-174bddfe52e2-ds

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Original Quill on Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:35 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

What do you want to see done?  It's unclear.

This makes it clearer Quill.

We call on the Prime Minister to order a public inquiry to make recommendations to:
- improve child safeguarding processes

- strengthen the police disciplinary process
- determine whether Cumbria Police has truly learnt the lessons of this case
- examine whether the resources provided to agencies involved in child protection to fulfil their safeguarding responsibilities."

Following the petition's launch, MP John Woodcock said: "This is our chance for the community to speak as one and demand a public inquiry into Poppi Worthington's death. Let’s all sign and spread word of this petition far and wide; let’s convince the government to honour Poppi’s memory by launching a petition that can restore public confidence in our police and make children across the country safer.



http://www.nwemail.co.uk/news/barrow/Poppi-Worthington-public-inquiry-petition-goes-live-b54376e2-d5a4-4b51-89f1-174bddfe52e2-ds

I thought so...it's to improve the methods of the criminal justice system, nothing to do with this case.  Whether or not the Cumbria police have "learned" something is a moot point.

I don't see how anyone can object to improving criminal justice methods.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:56 pm

The police made horrendous mistakes in this case, as they have in other cases involving child sexual abuse.
Poppi isn't the first young child to be let down by police and child protective services and I doubt she will be the last.

It would be good if something positive came out of this case.
Poppi cant be saved, but other babies and children could be.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Original Quill on Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:21 pm

Syl wrote:The police made horrendous mistakes in this case, as they have in other cases involving child sexual abuse.
Poppi isn't the first young child to be let down by police and child protective services and I doubt she will be the last.

It would be good if something positive came out of this case.
Poppi cant be saved, but other babies and children could be.

I agree wholeheartedly.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:25 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:The police made horrendous mistakes in this case, as they have in other cases involving child sexual abuse.
Poppi isn't the first young child to be let down by police and child protective services and I doubt she will be the last.

It would be good if something positive came out of this case.
Poppi cant be saved, but other babies and children could be.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I would ask you to sign but I think you have to be a UK citizen.
Hopefully the signatures will pile up though.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Original Quill on Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:37 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly.

I would ask you to sign but I think you have to be a UK citizen.
Hopefully the signatures will pile up though.

Yes, a non-voter signature would be disqualifying.  I am eligible for UK citizenship (within two degrees of consanguinity to a UK citizen--my grandfather), but I have never signed the papers.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:51 pm

Maybe one day you will....then you could be on the winning side of the Yanks v the Brits discussions some have on here . Razz

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by HoratioTarr on Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:11 pm

Syl wrote:
magica wrote:I read this today, I'm utterly sick. This paedophile got away with this.

If his semen was found on her bottom, he assaulted her and killed her.

This isn't justice for Poppi, its a bloody farce! Evil or Very Mad
His semen wasnt found on Poppi Mags.
Her dna was found on his penis, but his explanation for that was believed.

What was his explanation?
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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by eddie on Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:50 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:
magica wrote:I read this today, I'm utterly sick. This paedophile got away with this.

If his semen was found on her bottom, he assaulted her and killed her.

This isn't justice for Poppi, its a bloody farce! Evil or Very Mad
His semen wasnt found on Poppi Mags.
Her dna was found on his penis, but his explanation for that was believed.

What was his explanation?


If any of you read the report Tommy posted, above, you’d see that even the pathologists disagree.
Her DNA was on his penis transferred when he went to the toilet.


To be honest, and after reading all this I can only say that if the experts can’t agree then how can anyone be sure what happened?

Perhaps the father did it and is being helped to cover it up by his paedophile police mates?

@Tommy those plastic things in the picture are little plastic seats you buy for toddlers. They’re not toilet seats.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:11 pm

Her DNA was found on his penis... but not on an area that it would have been if he had sexualy assaulted her as is claimed...


Also, none of his DNA was found on/in the girls bottom... and it would definitely have been if he had done what is alleged...


So... quite simply... he didn't do it...!!!






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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Original Quill on Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:56 pm

Syl wrote:Maybe one day you will....then you could be on the winning side of the Yanks v the Brits discussions some have on here . Razz

I wrote my doctoral dissertation on the history of British political theory, so I'm usually on the British side anyway. American history is an entirely different--not competitive--subject matter.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:05 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Her DNA was found on his penis... but not on an area that it would have been if he had sexualy assaulted her as is claimed...


Also, none of his DNA was found on/in the girls bottom... and it would definitely have been if he had done what is alleged...


So... quite simply... he didn't do it...!!!






Her DNA was found on his dick and you claim he never sexually assualted her

For fuck sake

Tommy knows better than the coroner I guess.

A “fit and active, robust little girl” suffocated after being sexually abused by her father, a coroner has ruled.

Poppi Worthington died just over five years ago at her home in Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria, after spending part of the night in bed with her father, Paul Worthington.

David Roberts, the senior coroner for Cumbria, ruled on Monday that the 13-month-old had been sexually assaulted by her father just before her death, after a postmortem found suspicious injuries in her anus. The coroner concluded that Poppi had died from asphyxiation after Worthington brought her into his bed to abuse her and she was unable to breathe properly afterwards.

Worthington has been investigated several times over Poppi’s death but never charged and maintains his innocence. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) reviewed the evidence in 2016 and found there was “no realistic prospect” of a conviction after police failed to collect vital evidence.

Following the inquest at Kendal town hall, Jerry Graham, the chief constable of Cumbria police, apologised for “deficiencies in the original investigation”. He said he would be having “early discussions with the Crown Prosecution Service in order to determine possible courses of action”.

A lawyer for Poppi’s mother, who cannot be named, said she hoped the CPS would take “another look” at the case.

Roberts said a conclusion of unlawful killing was not available to him as he was not sure beyond reasonable doubt that Poppi died from an act of murder or manslaughter.

Although satisfied that she was sexually assaulted before her death, he concluded she did not die immediately afterwards and that penetration did not cause her death.

He said Poppi’s ability to breathe was compromised by an “unsafe sleeping environment” after her father had taken Poppi from her cot and placed her next to him in his double bed.

“Poppi was a fit and active, robust little girl … There is no evidence to suggest or support a natural cause of death. There is evidence that she has been placed in an adult’s bed alive and, sometime later, that she has been found there dead. I have found that, immediately prior to her death, Poppi was in an unsafe sleeping position, sharing a bed with an adult,” said Roberts.

The coroner said Poppi, who at the time was suffering from an upper respiratory tract infection, died from asphyxia.

Worthington may never be put on trial because police failed to collect forensic evidence. The nappy Poppi was wearing, along with her pyjama bottoms and a pillow she slept with, were never recovered, nor the sheet on Worthington’s bed.

The parents’ laptop and mobile phones were never examined and it was not until more than eight months after the death that police started investigating properly and arrested Worthington and Poppi’s mother.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/15/poppi-worthington-was-sexually-abused-by-father-coroner-rules


Last edited by Didge on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:07 pm

magica wrote:
Syl wrote:If anyone feels strongly about this please sign the petition.


To launch a public inquiry into the failings in the Poppi Worthington case.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/210024

Signed Syl.

Yes it was DNA I keep getting that muddled Embarassed

Signed

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:19 pm

eddie wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

What was his explanation?


If any of you read the report Tommy posted, above, you’d see that even the pathologists disagree.
Her DNA was on his penis transferred when he went to the toilet.


To be honest, and after reading all this I can only say that if the experts can’t agree then how can anyone be sure what happened?

Perhaps the father did it and is being helped to cover it up by his paedophile police mates?

@Tommy those plastic things in the picture are little plastic seats you buy for toddlers. They’re not toilet seats.

Maybe people genrally try to resuscitate a child when they stop breathing through their anus?

WTF

What you have is the pathologists offering up doubt, based around her death

There is no doubt she was sexually abused

Just because there is a lack of DNA evidence was down to the failings of the Police

Explain the anal injuries?

How anyone is even defending this, is beyond me

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:29 pm


DNA is very easily transferable...

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:35 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
DNA is very easily transferable...

Is it?

The evidence was found on his hands and penis was it not?

What if he was actually fingering her anus or using an object and masterbating?

She definately has injuries to the anus

That is a fact, so how do you explain these injuries, being the fact she was wearing a nappy?

You see all that some pathologists did claim was some doubt.

None of them could rule out she was sexually assualted.

Can you rule this out?

So to say he must be innocent, is by and large, another example of your stupidity

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:57 pm



Didge, you are sick in the head...



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:59 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Didge, you are sick in the head...



Wow

So now you misdirect, because I offer up possible realities to what this sicko did do to his daughter

Its why you cannot respond and act once again like a complete dick

So can you rule out, that he used an object on her anus whilst sexually arousing himself?

Yes or no

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:10 pm

You are sick in the head.



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Didge on Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:16 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:You are sick in the head.



And yet more misdirection

My views are in line with the senior coroner, that she was sexually assualted

Are they also sick in the head Tommy?

So not only do you defend the Iranian islamist Goverment, through its mouth piece Press TV and Putin and his cronies with RT. You defend and claim innocence to a man, quite rightly suspected of sexually abusing his daughter.

Is it because he has fair skin Tommy and hetrosexual, that you defend him, ignoring he would also be a peadophile?

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:03 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Her DNA was found on his penis... but not on an area that it would have been if he had sexualy assaulted her as is claimed...


Also, none of his DNA was found on/in the girls bottom... and it would definitely have been if he had done what is alleged...


So...quite simply....he didn't do it...!!!



"Intimate swabs from Mr Worthington were not sent away for analysis until July the following year and officers failed to seize a number of key items during search of the house including the double bed sheet where Poppi had collapsed or a laptop Mr Worthington had used to watch pornography on just hours before.

Poppi's pyjama bottoms were also not seized and never found."


http://www.timesandstar.co.uk/news/Poppi-inquest-Police-had-historical-intelligence-on-dad-0b102262-6c4a-446d-ada3-939fe0e5f720-ds

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:07 am

Didge wrote:
magica wrote:

Signed Syl.

Yes it was DNA I keep getting that muddled Embarassed

Signed

Thanks Didge. x

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:08 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:
His semen wasnt found on Poppi Mags.
Her dna was found on his penis, but his explanation for that was believed.

What was his explanation?

He went to the toilet and her dna was transferred from his hands to his penis.

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