No justice for Poppi.

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No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:04 pm

Poppi Worthington was anally penetrated by her father before being left in an "unsafe" sleeping environment and dying from asphyxia, a senior corner concluded yesterday. Her father Paul Worthington has refused to answer any questions about the night Poppy died and is unlikely to ever stand trial.
Poppi died five years ago, she suffered bleeding, bruising and tears to her bottom caused by sexual assault before she died. Poppi was in the care of her father, and her mother, who was sleeping downstairs, the mothers identity has remained private for legal reasons.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/alison-phillips-no-justice-little-11862876


"By rights Poppi Worthington should be at school this morning.
She should be sat in a Year One classroom practising her reading or painting rainbows.
Instead she has spent the last five years in a Cumbrian graveyard denied all that life could offer.
What’s more she has been denied justice by an incompetent police investigation, a pathetic justice system, and ultimately, by her deviant father.
On Monday, at Kendal Coroner’s Court, came the third judgement concluding 13-month-old Poppi was sexually assaulted in the hours before her death in December 2012.
No one can be certain how she actually died, because only she and her father Paul Worthington were in the bedroom that night. And Worthington has consistently refused to say a single word about it.
So while little Poppi has lain in that windswept cemetery, let’s consider what’s happened to the othermain players in this terrible saga.


Her father is being kept in a witness protection scheme costing taxpayers like you and me £50,000 per year.
He is likely to remain that way from now on which means we’ll probably shell out the best part of a million pounds over his worthless lifetime.
And even when he declined 252 times to answer questions about Poppi’s death at the most recent inquest, still his payday continues.


Meanwhile, there are the police officers who so fouled up the investigation into the baby’s death that by the time they questioned Worthington there was insufficient evidence to charge him.
The mistakes were multiple.
A report by the Independent Police Complaints Commission concluded two officers had a case to answer for gross misconduct.
But one retired on a full pension before disciplinary action could be taken. The other was demoted, but still retired on a police pension too. Again, paid for by us the taxpayers.


And then there is the South Cumbria coroner Ian Smith who in 2014 took just seven minutes to declare Poppi’s death "unexplained".

And of course the taxpayer-funded CPS who said there was "insufficient evidence" in July 2016 to charge Paul Worthington.


It is a litany of incompetence, negligence and inaction. While Paul Worthington has been rewarded for abuse. Not to mention what hasn’t been proved about him.

So, all in all, life has turned out OK for Worthington, the failed police officers, the seven-minute coroner and the crown prosecutors.

And Poppi? No, life didn’t turn out at all.
Betrayed in death as she was in life.
And it is an absolute disgrace."


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/poppi-worthington-justice-what-happens-11856666


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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Cass on Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:15 pm

We’ve been watching this at night just before bed(we have device that picks up Sky and BBC News).

Utterly heartbreaking.

Hope the CPS relook at this case and charge him. Just a mess of everything and by everybody and that poor sweet girl suffered. Her poor mum and Family.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:26 pm

Cass wrote:We’ve been watching this at night just before bed(we have device that picks up Sky and BBC News).

Utterly heartbreaking.

Hope the CPS relook at this case and charge him. Just a mess of everything and by everybody and that poor sweet girl suffered. Her poor mum and Family.
You are right, its so utterly heartbreaking.
The case has dragged on for 5 years, all the evidence points to the father raping and killing her, the fact that he holds his hand over his mouth refusing to answer questions says a lot. The glaring mistakes the police made at the scene and long afterwards have stopped little Poppy from getting any justice.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by magica on Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:59 pm

My heart breaks for this little girl. Her dad's semen was on her vagina, so he obviously did something to make her scream like she did. The mother didn't bother to get off the settee to go and see.

Let down by her mother, police, social workers, well everyone.

I hope the dad gets arrested, can't understand why he wasn't to begin with.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:55 pm

magica wrote:My heart breaks for this little girl. Her dad's semen was on her vagina, so he obviously did something to make her scream like she did. The mother didn't bother to get off the settee to go and see.

Let down by her mother, police, social workers, well everyone.

I hope the dad gets arrested, can't understand why he wasn't to begin with.

Mags, I haven't read his semen was found on her vagina (that makes me sick just writing it) have you got a link anywhere?
Surely that would have been concrete evidence to charge him with rape and murder.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:01 pm

I'm just a dumb redneck. Why is dad in a witness protection scheme? Did he turn over evidence of another crime?

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:05 pm

Maddog wrote:I'm just a dumb redneck.  Why is dad in a witness protection scheme?  Did he turn over evidence of another crime?  

He is in witness protection because he has received death threats, and because the police and authorities made such a farce of this case he has never stood trial so obviously has not been found guilty of any wrong doing.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Maddog on Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:12 pm

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:I'm just a dumb redneck.  Why is dad in a witness protection scheme?  Did he turn over evidence of another crime?  

He is in witness protection because he has received death threats, and because the police and authorities made such a farce of this case he has never stood trial so obviously has not been found guilty of any wrong doing.

Gotcha. So after screwing up the government is charging the tax payer to keep this guy safe. Rolling Eyes

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:14 pm

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:

He is in witness protection because he has received death threats, and because the police and authorities made such a farce of this case he has never stood trial so obviously has not been found guilty of any wrong doing.

Gotcha.  So after screwing up the government is charging the tax payer to keep this guy safe.  Rolling Eyes

Yes, and this farce has already been going on for 5 years.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by magica on Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:15 pm

Syl wrote:
magica wrote:My heart breaks for this little girl. Her dad's semen was on her vagina, so he obviously did something to make her scream like she did. The mother didn't bother to get off the settee to go and see.

Let down by her mother, police, social workers, well everyone.

I hope the dad gets arrested, can't understand why he wasn't to begin with.

Mags, I haven't read his semen was found on her vagina (that makes me sick just writing it) have you got a link anywhere?
Surely that would have been concrete evidence to charge him with rape and murder.

I will try and find it Syl, it may have been her bottom.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:23 pm

magica wrote:
Syl wrote:

Mags, I haven't read his semen was found on her vagina (that makes me sick just writing it) have you got a link anywhere?
Surely that would have been concrete evidence to charge him with rape and murder.

I will try and find it Syl, it may have been her bottom.

Thanks Mags.
If his semen was found anywhere near Poppi that should have convicted him outright.
I do know her nappy was "lost"....blundering idiots.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by magica on Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:50 pm

Sorry Syl I can only find the judges verdict that her bottom was penetrated, so maybe I thought I saw that, or it was another story.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:59 pm

I can't stomach reading about this case in the papers. Every time I see that vile monster's face, I want to stab him. I can't believe this has dragged on for so long.
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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by magica on Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:30 pm

I'm totally where you are HT, I despise the man. Why he gets police protection is beyond me.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:05 am

I may be totally wrong here... but I get the distinct feeling that there is much more to all of this...


I get the feeling that someone else was involved...


Can't help thinking that something else was going on...


Something police never considered at the time of their initial arrival at the scene, but which set them on a wrong path of investigation where they had quickly decided what they thought had happened, going by first appearances, and then concentrated on only gathering the bits of evidence they thought would be necessary to back up what they thought was an obvious 'open and shut' case...


But as this 'evidence' started to prove innocence rather than guilt... and the penny started to drop as to what really might have happened, and how those police responsible for the investigation had completely fukked things up... where the real evidence was left behind and no longer available... and where their collected 'evidence' only proved that the father didn't do it and that the police responsible for investigation were incompetent fools destined for serious disciplinary action while being so near to either promotion/retirement, so nothing at all to do with any of this 'evidence'... errr... 'disappearing'... in any way...!?




What are the real facts here...?


Who else may have been at the scene that night, and involved/responsible...!?



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:24 am

The op pic is photoshop fakery too... no legs... dodgy hand on steering wheel... loads of blurry bits round edges...


Plus... what are those brightly coloured childs seats in the background that look like 'commodes'...?



All looks very odd...!



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:28 am

The public have not been told all the facts.
Poppi's mother heard the child scream out, the conclusion has been that this was when Poppi was  penetrated.
Whatever else the mother has said hasnt been made public, and she has never been under suspicion.

The only other person present the night Poppi died was her father, who was in bed with Poppi, after previously watching porn, the device he was watching it from was never found.

He has consistantly refuse to answer police questions.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:34 am

Sorry Syl... but that is all bollocks...

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:40 am

Except for...


'...The public have not been told all the facts...'


And especially about the mother, what she said, her background and potential involvement, and others who are known to frequent the house and have possible involvement...!



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:45 am

From the OP...


'...A report by the Independent Police Complaints Commission concluded two officers had a case to answer for gross misconduct.

But one retired on a full pension before disciplinary action could be taken. The other was demoted, but still retired on a police pension too...'



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:46 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Sorry Syl... but that is all bollocks...

They are the facts that have been reported.
What do you disagree with?

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Cass on Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:47 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Sorry Syl... but that is all bollocks...

Were you there? No.

Are you privy to any information that nobody has been told about? If so do cite the sources.

If he is innocent, why did he refuse to answer over 200 questions even though he wasn’t on trial?



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:51 am

Tommy Monk wrote:From the OP...


'...A report by the Independent Police Complaints Commission concluded two officers had a case to answer for gross misconduct.

But one retired on a full pension before disciplinary action could be taken. The other was demoted, but still retired on a police pension too...'


Well exactly.

There have been several botched police investigations recently where police have been severely diciplined, yet still held on to their jobs and pensions.

Had the police not totally cocked up the investigation Worthington would have been charged and found guilty of rape and murder.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Cass on Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:54 am

Syl wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:From the OP...


'...A report by the Independent Police Complaints Commission concluded two officers had a case to answer for gross misconduct.

But one retired on a full pension before disciplinary action could be taken. The other was demoted, but still retired on a police pension too...'


Well exactly.

There have been several botched police investigations recently where police have been severely diciplined, yet still held on to their jobs and pensions.

Had the police not totally cocked up the investigation Worthington would have been charged and found guilty of rape and murder.

Correct. alien

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:14 am

Cass wrote:
Syl wrote:
Well exactly.

There have been several botched police investigations recently where police have been severely diciplined, yet still held on to their jobs and pensions.

Had the police not totally cocked up the investigation Worthington would have been charged and found guilty of rape and murder.

Correct. alien

Thanks Cass. We were talking about one the other day, the rapist taxi driver who went on to commit numerous rapes and sexual assaults on women because police refused to believe the victims.
Police in that case were diciplined, but no one was fired.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:17 am

Cass wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Sorry Syl... but that is all bollocks...

Were you there? No.

Are you privy to any information that nobody has been told about? If so do cite the sources.

If he is innocent, why did he refuse to answer over 200 questions even though he wasn’t on trial?




Were you there...?


Were any of the news/media reporters there...?


Were any of the police there during the childs death or during the time leading up to her death, when she allegedly suffered a brutal sexual assault...?


No...!


So all we have to go on are the KNOWN facts... of which there are very few KNOWN facts to go on...!


The refusal to answer questions by the father was only at this latest inquest, and under advice of his lawyer, he has spent 5 years under interrogation and vilified for being responsible for, the brutal sexual assault and death of his own baby daughter, that he is adamant that he had absolutely nothing to do with...!


Is Kate Mccann guilty of Maddies murder/disappearance, just because she refused to answer a whole list of Portuguese police investigators questions while being interviewed as a suspect...!?


You ask me to cite sources for 'facts'... but as yet, I don't see any relevant 'facts' here, or any legit sources...!!!



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Cass on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:17 am

Syl wrote:
Cass wrote:

Correct. alien

Thanks Cass. We were talking about one the other day, the rapist taxi driver who went on to commit numerous rapes and sexual assaults on women because police refused to believe the victims.
Police in that case were diciplined, but no one was fired.

As they should have been.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Cass on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:19 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Cass wrote:

Were you there? No.

Are you privy to any information that nobody has been told about? If so do cite the sources.

If he is innocent, why did he refuse to answer over 200 questions even though he wasn’t on trial?




Were you there...?


Were any of the news/media reporters there...?


Were any of the police there during the childs death or during the time leading up to her death, when she allegedly suffered a brutal sexual assault...?


No...!


So all we have to go on are the KNOWN facts... of which there are very few KNOWN facts to go on...!


The refusal to answer questions by the father was only at this latest inquest, and under advice of his lawyer, he has spent 5 years under interrogation and vilified for being responsible for, the brutal sexual assault and death of his own baby daughter, that he is adamant that he had absolutely nothing to do with...!


Is Kate Mccann guilty of Maddies murder/disappearance, just because she refused to answer a whole list of Portuguese police investigators questions while being interviewed as a suspect...!?


You ask me to cite sources for 'facts'... but as yet, I don't see any relevant 'facts' here, or any legit sources...!!!



There’s plenty out there!!!! Including in the original article!!!

Let’s flip it. Why do you think he’s innocent?

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:27 am

Im sure the majority of police do the best they can, mistakes are made because people are human. But sometimes....in cases like the one mentioned, and in Poppies case, the blunders are so far reaching, its impossible to believe intelligent people can be so neglectful.

How the hell could a nappy, which would have held enough evidence to prove what happened, just be thrown away?

I hope one day Poppies murder is recognised, and if there is any justice in the world this bastard will rot inside jail for life..

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:28 am

Syl wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:From the OP...


'...A report by the Independent Police Complaints Commission concluded two officers had a case to answer for gross misconduct.

But one retired on a full pension before disciplinary action could be taken. The other was demoted, but still retired on a police pension too...'


Well exactly.

There have been several botched police investigations recently where police have been severely diciplined, yet still held on to their jobs and pensions.

Had the police not totally cocked up the investigation Worthington would have been charged and found guilty of rape and murder.


Or maybe... somebody else would have been rightly found guilty... and the father would never have been put through the additional pain of any of the blame for something he never did... while already trying to come to terms with the death of his daughter in such a way!!!



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:35 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Syl wrote:
Well exactly.

There have been several botched police investigations recently where police have been severely diciplined, yet still held on to their jobs and pensions.

Had the police not totally cocked up the investigation Worthington would have been charged and found guilty of rape and murder.


Or maybe... somebody else would have been rightly found guilty... and the father would never have been put through the additional pain of any of the blame for something he never did... while already trying to come to terms with the death of his daughter in such a way!!!



Someone else?
There has never been any suggestion that anyone else was there Tommy.
The mother was downstairs, the father and Poppi were in the bedroom.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:47 am

Cass wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


Were you there...?


Were any of the news/media reporters there...?


Were any of the police there during the childs death or during the time leading up to her death, when she allegedly suffered a brutal sexual assault...?


No...!


So all we have to go on are the KNOWN facts... of which there are very few KNOWN facts to go on...!


The refusal to answer questions by the father was only at this latest inquest, and under advice of his lawyer, he has spent 5 years under interrogation and vilified for being responsible for, the brutal sexual assault and death of his own baby daughter, that he is adamant that he had absolutely nothing to do with...!


Is Kate Mccann guilty of Maddies murder/disappearance, just because she refused to answer a whole list of Portuguese police investigators questions while being interviewed as a suspect...!?


You ask me to cite sources for 'facts'... but as yet, I don't see any relevant 'facts' here, or any legit sources...!!!



There’s plenty out there!!!! Including in the original article!!!

Let’s flip it. Why do you think he’s innocent?


No... first you show me the facts behind the beleif you have of his guilt...!?


The op is speculation and spin...!


Even the picture is photoshop fake...!


And posts so far on this thread are mainly repeats of waffle... eg... 'there was HIS semen found on her vagina'... etc... followed by outrage... then the admission that there was no such factual source for that anywhere...


So what facts are there...!?


What if... somebody else was responsible for sexual assault on child... then killed child by smothering her in her blankets while trying to quiet the sound of childs cries in pain... then they dumped dead child wrapped in blankets onto fathers bed with him asleep and unaware of any of it all, and then the real perpetrator runs away...!?



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Maddog on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:51 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Cass wrote:

There’s plenty out there!!!! Including in the original article!!!

Let’s flip it. Why do you think he’s innocent?


No... first you show me the facts behind the beleif you have of his guilt...!?


The op is speculation and spin...!


Even the picture is photoshop fake...!


And posts so far on this thread are mainly repeats of waffle... eg... 'there was HIS semen found on her vagina'... etc... followed by outrage... then the admission that there was no such factual source for that anywhere...


So what facts are there...!?


What if... somebody else was responsible for sexual assault on child... then killed child by smothering her in her blankets while trying to quiet the sound of childs cries in pain... then they dumped dead child wrapped in blankets onto fathers bed with him asleep and unaware of any of it all, and then the real perpetrator runs away...!?



Could have been aliens too, but my money is on dad.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:02 am

Syl wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


Or maybe... somebody else would have been rightly found guilty... and the father would never have been put through the additional pain of any of the blame for something he never did... while already trying to come to terms with the death of his daughter in such a way!!!



Someone else?
There has never been any suggestion that anyone else was there Tommy.
The mother was downstairs, the father and Poppi were in the bedroom.


...apparently...



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Cass on Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:17 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Cass wrote:

There’s plenty out there!!!! Including in the original article!!!

Let’s flip it. Why do you think he’s innocent?


No... first you show me the facts behind the beleif you have of his guilt...!?


The op is speculation and spin...!


Even the picture is photoshop fake...!


And posts so far on this thread are mainly repeats of waffle... eg... 'there was HIS semen found on her vagina'... etc... followed by outrage... then the admission that there was no such factual source for that anywhere...


So what facts are there...!?


What if... somebody else was responsible for sexual assault on child... then killed child by smothering her in her blankets while trying to quiet the sound of childs cries in pain... then they dumped dead child wrapped in blankets onto fathers bed with him asleep and unaware of any of it all, and then the real perpetrator runs away...!?



But if he was an Asian immigrant, you’d immediately think he was guilty with the all same evidence.

Get out of here with your photoshop crap. You are delusional. I’ve tried giving you the benefit of doubt over the years but it doesn’t end with you. Every photo is photoshopped when it doesn’t concur with what you believe. It’s your default option.

I’m done.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:50 am

The 'evidence' proved innocence and colossal police fuk up... that's why it 'disappeared'...


No police are going to make evidence disappear that would have got the father convicted, if he had really done it...!


OP pic... kids got no legs... is that real...!?


What are all those 'toilet seats' in the background...?


What are the facts around this whole case...!?


Show me anywhere that has a factual timeline of events of that night when child was found dead...!!!???


???


The more you look... the more you will find that there is nothing of the sort!!!


Why is it that there are no real facts about this case... when there are so many speculative 'facts' being thrown around from so many spurious sources...?



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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:02 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The 'evidence' proved innocence and colossal police fuk up... that's why it 'disappeared'...


No police are going to make evidence disappear that would have got the father convicted, if he had really done it...!


OP pic... kids got no legs... is that real...!?


What are all those 'toilet seats' in the background...?


What are the facts around this whole case...!?


Show me anywhere that has a factual timeline of events of that night when child was found dead...!!!???


???


The more you look... the more you will find that there is nothing of the sort!!!


Why is it that there are no real facts about this case... when there are so many speculative 'facts' being thrown around from so many spurious sources...?


Tommy....the most important REAL fact is a baby was left with horrific anal wounds after being penetrated, she was then found dead, asphyxiated by someone or something.
The only people in the house were her mother and father.
The mother has never been under suspicion.
The police bolloxed the case up.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:10 pm

The father denies responsibility... and his sister says that she totally believes him 100% too...!


I think there is a lot more to this case that we are not being told... and I think someone else may well be responsible...


That's just the feeling I get... can't quite put my finger on it...

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Original Quill on Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:38 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Were you there...?


Were any of the news/media reporters there...?


Were any of the police there during the childs death or during the time leading up to her death, when she allegedly suffered a brutal sexual assault...?


No...!


So all we have to go on are the KNOWN facts... of which there are very few KNOWN facts to go on...!


The refusal to answer questions by the father was only at this latest inquest, and under advice of his lawyer, he has spent 5 years under interrogation and vilified for being responsible for, the brutal sexual assault and death of his own baby daughter, that he is adamant that he had absolutely nothing to do with...!

If they can prove that..

1) a crime was committed;

and 2) he was the only on in the room who could have committed it;

The case should be made by circumstantial evidence.

There is no problem.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:03 pm


I don't know that much about this case... but I have just been reading a bit about it...


'...The toddler, who was suffering from an upper respiratory tract infection at the time, later died from asphyxia caused by the illness...'


'...two pathologists who conducted a post-mortem on Poppi... One was concerned she had sustained injuries from serious sexual abuse... but the other claimed they may have been caused by a medical condition...'


The article also mentions that Poppi had 'siblings'... suggesting others were in the house on that night... don't know how many or how old any were at the time...


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/poppi-worthington-death-father-paul-sexual-abuse-assault-charges-prosecution-coroner-inquest-a8164791.html


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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:26 am

Tommy Monk wrote:'...two pathologists who conducted a post-mortem on Poppi... One was concerned she had sustained injuries from serious sexual abuse... but the other claimed they may have been caused by a medical condition...'

So there's a causation problem. They can't prove it was due to a crime.

Well, that's a different matter. Perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to draw conclusions.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:59 pm

"David Roberts, senior coroner for Cumbria, ruled today the 13-month-old had been sexually assaulted by her father just before her death.
He concluded Poppi died from asphyxia - a condition where the supply of oxygen is severely restricted - after Mr Worthington brought her into his double bed to abuse her and she was left unable to breathe after the assault.
Mr Roberts said he thinks the broad sequence of events went as follows:
Poppi was taken from her cot by her father Paul Worthington, placed on the double bed and penetrated.
Poppi did not die during or shortly after penetration, however, as "there must have been a period of bleeding afterwards".After an unknown length of time, Poppi died as a "result of her ability to breathe being compromised by an unsafe sleeping environment".
"Only Paul Worthington can provide an account of what happened upstairs," Mr Roberts said. "All his accounts suggest at some point he removed her from her cot to his bed.
"His accounts differ and I was unable to form a view on his honesty and credibility because he answered so few of my questions."
Poppi suffered bleeding, bruising and tears to her bottom caused by sexual assault before she died."


Any suggestions as to what medical condition could have caused this Tommy?

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by magica on Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:27 pm

The dad did it, so why wasn't he charged?


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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:00 pm


'...The toddler, who was suffering from an upper respiratory tract infection at the time, later died from asphyxia caused by the illness...'


'...two pathologists who conducted a post-mortem on Poppi... One was concerned she had sustained injuries from serious sexual abuse... but the other claimed they may have been caused by a medical condition...'


The article also mentions that Poppi had 'siblings'... suggesting others were in the house on that night... don't know how many or how old any were at the time...


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/poppi-worthington-death-father-paul-sexual-abuse-assault-charges-prosecution-coroner-inquest-a8164791.html


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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:08 pm

Syl wrote:"David Roberts, senior coroner for Cumbria, ruled today the 13-month-old had been sexually assaulted by her father just before her death.
He concluded Poppi died from asphyxia - a condition where the supply of oxygen is severely restricted - after Mr Worthington brought her into his double bed to abuse her and she was left unable to breathe after the assault.
Mr Roberts said he thinks the broad sequence of events went as follows:
Poppi was taken from her cot by her father Paul Worthington, placed on the double bed and penetrated.
Poppi did not die during or shortly after penetration, however, as "there must have been a period of bleeding afterwards".After an unknown length of time, Poppi died as a "result of her ability to breathe being compromised by an unsafe sleeping environment".
"Only Paul Worthington can provide an account of what happened upstairs," Mr Roberts said. "All his accounts suggest at some point he removed her from her cot to his bed.
"His accounts differ and I was unable to form a view on his honesty and credibility because he answered so few of my questions."
Poppi suffered bleeding, bruising and tears to her bottom caused by sexual assault before she died."


Any suggestions as to what medical condition could have caused this Tommy?

Ahhh...so that's one opinion.  

Tommy Monk wrote:'...two pathologists who conducted a post-mortem on Poppi... One was concerned she had sustained injuries from serious sexual abuse... but the other claimed they may have been caused by a medical condition...'

Does anyone have the full opinion of the other pathologist? That appears to be what is holding things up.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:56 pm

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pathologist-reveals-poppi-worthington-suffered-11640829

"Tragic Poppi Worthington suffered a 'penetrative' sexual assault 'by a penis or penis-shaped object' before her death, an inquest heard.
Dr Alison Armour told the hearing she suspected Poppi had been abused before even examining her body.
She said she told police of her fears when X-rays of the 13-month-old tot, taken two days after her death, revealed leg fractures.
The pathologist of 30 years said there was no record of any accident to explain the leg injuries, which were only picked up after Poppi's death.
Her post-mortem examination also found bruising to the back of Poppi's throat and external and internal injuries to her anus and rectum area.
She told the hearing: "It is my view that the findings are indicative of injury. Injury to the anal rectum junction. It is my opinion it was an erect penis or penis shaped object which is responsible for this."
But she said penetration in this manner, even for a baby, would not necessarily cause death.

She added: "I was very concerned about the healing fractures to the right tibia and fibula and my remarks were made to that effect - 'This is strongly suspicious of child abuse'."

She said there were no natural causes to account for Poppi's death and that left her with two possible modes of dying in this case, a reflex cardiac arrest or asphyxia, but she could not be sure and so she had to conclude the cause of death remains "unascertained".
Dr Armour said that blood in the girl's nose is a sign of acute upper airways obstruction, seen in cases of smothering or suffocation."

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:04 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:'...The toddler, who was suffering from an upper respiratory tract infection at the time, later died from asphyxia caused by the illness...'

"...caused by the illness."  So there does seem to be a difference of opinion as to causation.  

I'll bet anything, that's what is holding up prosecution in this case.

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Syl on Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:13 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:'...The toddler, who was suffering from an upper respiratory tract infection at the time, later died from asphyxia caused by the illness...'

"...caused by the illness."  So there does seem to be a difference of opinion as to causation.  

I'll bet anything, that's what is holding up prosecution in this case.
Tommy is making things up.

The pathologist with 30 years experience said ...

" there were no natural causes to account for Poppi's death and that left her with two possible modes of dying in this case, a reflex cardiac arrest or asphyxia, but she could not be sure and so she had to conclude the cause of death remains "unascertained".
Dr Armour said that blood in the girl's nose is a sign of acute upper airways obstruction, seen in cases of smothering or suffocation.
But she added: "In this case there are signs of asphyxia, I have to be sure in this matter, and I can't be."

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:17 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

"...caused by the illness."  So there does seem to be a difference of opinion as to causation.  

I'll bet anything, that's what is holding up prosecution in this case.
Tommy is making things up.

The pathologist with 30 years experience said ...

" there were no natural causes to account for Poppi's death and that left her with two possible modes of dying in this case, a reflex cardiac arrest or asphyxia, but she could not be sure and so she had to conclude the cause of death remains "unascertained".
Dr Armour said that blood in the girl's nose is a sign of acute upper airways obstruction, seen in cases of smothering or suffocation.
But she added: "In this case there are signs of asphyxia, I have to be sure in this matter, and I can't be."

I don't think we can settle this until Tommy's source is revealed.

In the meantime...so you are contending that the only thing that is holding up the prosecution is police malingering?

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Re: No justice for Poppi.

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:20 pm

I'm not making anything up... the quotes I gave are from the news article link I posted along with quotes...!



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