Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

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Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:09 am

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Trump may order US embassy moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem Wednesday

That would give Israel's claim to the entire city de facto US recognition

Israel claims all of Jerusalem as its capital; Palestinians also claim it as theirs

At present the world does not officially recognize Israel's claim to East Jerusalem

It took that section of the city after a war with a group of Arab states in 1965

US presidents have kept the embassy in Tel Aviv to avoid recognizing the claim

Recognition will infuriate the Arabs, and undo attempts to broker peace

But the final decision has not yet been made, officials have claimed

Donald Trump is likely to announce next week that the United States recognizes Jerusalem, not Tel Aviv, as Israel's capital, a senior official has said - potentially causing chaos in the Middle East.

Trump may make the declaration on Wednesday, the senior member of the administration told Reuters.

If he does, it will deal a serious blow to the Middle East peace protest.

Jerusalem - which contains sites holy to the Muslim, Jewish and Christian faiths - is claimed as the capital of both the state of Israel and a proposed Palestinian state.

The international community doesn't recognize the Palestinian claim and does not recognize Israel's claim to section sections of the city that it annexed from Palestine following the 1967 Middle East War.

But in 1995, a law was passed declaring that the US embassy be moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

Every president since then has signed a waver every six months to put off that transfer, in the hope of not further widening the rifts that exist in the region.

Instead, they have said, Jerusalem's status must be decided only in negotiations.

Trump pledged on the presidential campaign trail last year that he would move the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

But in June he waived the requirement, saying he wanted to 'maximize the chances' for a new US-led push for what he has called the 'ultimate deal' of Israeli-Palestinian peace.

Those efforts have made little, if any, progress so far and many experts are skeptical of the prospects for success.

Now, the possibility that Trump may take this chance to bestow US recognition on Israel's claim has upset many Arab leaders in the surrounding region.

It could also unravel the US administration's fledgling diplomatic effort, led by Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner, to restart long-stalled Israeli-Palestinian peace talks and enlist the support of the US's Arab allies.

Nabil Abu Rdainah, spokesman for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, said America's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital would 'destroy the peace process' and 'destabilize the region.'

And while visiting Washington this week, Jordan's King Abdullah warned lawmakers that moving the embassy could be 'exploited by terrorists to stoke anger, frustration and desperation,' according to the Jordanian state news agency Petra.

Such a move, however, could help satisfy the pro-Israel, right-wing base - particularly evangelical Christians - that helped Trump win the presidency. It would also please the Israeli government, a close US ally.

And some of Trump's top aides have privately pushed for him to keep his campaign promise for that reason

The senior US official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said details were still being finalized and could still change.

Another American official also said Trump appeared to be heading toward recognizing Israel's claim to Jerusalem but that it was not a done deal.

We've nothing to announce,' said a spokesperson with the White House National Security Council.

Trump is reportedly weighing in personally in the intense internal deliberations, a White House aide said.

Despite the short-term gains to be had for him, he may still stick with the established program and sign a waiver keeping the embassy in Tel Aviv for another six months.

But seeking to temper his supporters' concerns, another option under consideration is for him to order his aides to develop a longer-term plan for the embassy's relocation, to make clear his intent to do so eventually, the officials said.

It was unclear, however, whether any public recognition by Trump of Israel's claim on Jerusalem would be formally enshrined in a presidential action or be more of a symbolic statement.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5137481/Trump-likely-recognize-Jerusalem-Israels-capital-week-official.html

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by smelly-bandit on Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:41 pm

Trump declares Hanukkah 'especially special' this year

Fake President Trump declared Hanukkah 'especially special' this year because of his recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital as he entered a White House celebration of the Jewish festival to whoops on Thursday night.

He was cheered by a crowd which included his son-in-law and Middle East peace envoy Jared Kushner as he walked into the East Room, just a day after his declaration which has caused widespread protests in the Middle East.

'I know for a fact there are a lot of happy people in this room,' he exulted, adding: 'Jerusalem!'

Hours later the Muslim world lit up in protests, with violence in Gaza claiming at least one Palestinian life, a man described by Israeli security forces as a 'main instigator' of 'violent riots'.

In Jerusalem itself huge crowds rallied outside Jerusalem's Al Aqsa Mosque, a flashpoint site in the holy city and there were sporadic clashes in the city. And there were protests across the Muslim world after Friday prayers.

But Trump, speaking before the eruption of protest, said his decision was right.

In a short speech in front of representatives of America's Jewish community he said: 'We wish you a very happy Hanukkah, and I think this one will go down as especially special.'

It was the first of a series of references to his Wednesday announcement in the speech, which was held five days before Hanukkah actually begins.

After the event he tweeted highlighting Bill Clinton and Barack Obama making promises to recognize Jerusalem then doing nothing. 'I fulfilled my campaign promises - others didn't!' he tweeted.

'Jerusalem!' Trump was cheered as he entered the East Room and when he started his speech, said 'there were a lot of very happy people' before saying 'Jerusalem'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5160547/Trump-takes-victory-lap-Jerusalem.html

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“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief."

- Frantz Fanon
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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:02 pm

From Pakistan Observer:

 On appeal of Ameer Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) Pakistan, Senator Sirajul Haq, countrywide protest demonstrations were held on Friday against US Fake President Trumps’ recognizing Jerusalem as Israel capital, as thousands of people came out on roads to express their solidarity with the Palestinians.

In Peshawar, a protest rally was held outside the historic Mahabat Khan mosque. JI provincial chief Mushtaq Ahmed khan said on the occasion that Trump had stabbed the Muslim world at the back.

However, he said, that Al-Quds belonged to the Muslims and it would remain so in future. He said that recognition of Jerusalem as Israel capital was a step towards greater Israel and warned that Israel’s next target would be the holy Ka’ba.
The entire reason that the world is against Trump's stating a plain fact is that they are afraid of Muslims who can spin such absurd fantasies.

And they are too frightened to tell the Muslims the truth - because they don't want to be targets, too.

The Muslim world is holding the West hostage, and most of the world has Stockholm syndrome.


http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2017/12/obviously-jews-will-go-after-mecca-next.html

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:11 pm

If Israel were a normal country, having the United States place its embassy in its capital city would not be newsworthy.

If Israel were a normal country, that its negotiating partner regularly threatens violence would stir up outrage.

If Israel were a normal country, the fact that its enemies hijack international organizations in order to deny its history would offend any fair-minded individual.

If Israel were a normal country, everyone would be offended that another country would tell its athletes to throw matches, so they wouldn’t have to face Israeli competitors. People would also be enraged that Israeli athletes could not identify their nation of origin in certain countries. That’s usually an arrangement for a country that violates norms of competition, not a country whose biggest sin is existing.

If Israel were a normal country, its doctors, who have treated thousands of citizens of an enemy country when the rest of the world is allowing hundreds of thousands to die violently, would win the Nobel Peace Prize.

If Israel were a normal country, its critics would recognize that the three times it made territorial concessions for peace — the withdrawal from the major Palestinian West Bank population centers in 1995 was followed by a series of terror attacks in February and March 1996; the 2000 withdrawal from southern Lebanon was followed by the growth of Hezbollah’s strength and arsenal; the 2005 withdrawal from Gaza emboldened Hamas leading to three wars over the next decade — it paid a heavy price. Even though the withdrawal from the Sinai has led to a stable peace with Egypt, the Sinai has become home to a virulent ISIS franchise.

If Israel were a normal country, it would be recognized for its effort to share agricultural know-how and water technology to impoverished countries.

But Israel is not a normal country. Today, the United Nations Security Council is meeting to discuss what the Palestinian Authority calls an “extremely dangerous situation, which constitutes a threat to international peace and security.” With “dangerous situation” they mean that Fake President Trump announced on Wednesday that the U.S. recognizes Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and that he intends to move the embassy to Jerusalem – in other words, he said he would treat Israel like any other nation in the world.

Given the hue and cry raised by Israel’s enemies – and even some purported friends like the United Kingdom and France – you might think that Trump had ordered bombs dropped on civilians. But the objections were not for any loss of life, but for the intent to move a building and treat Israel normally.

It is ironic that members of the Security Council are now judging Israel. Israel, if it were to join the Security Council, would have to do it as a member of Europe or other regions, not as a member of the Asia and Africa region where it belongs, because the Muslim world objects to its membership in the group. The Security Council, rather than serving as “a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations,” by its very structure serves to legitimize prejudice and division.

Worse, the Security Council has failed to protect the hundreds of thousands of Syrian civilians killed and millions more displaced in the brutal civil war waged by the regime’s President Bashar al-Assad, aided by Iran and Russia. The Security Council did worse than not protect the Syrians.

Nearly two years ago, it endorsed the nuclear deal with Iran. The agreement freed up billions, much of which has been used by Iran to bolster Assad. So not only has the Security Council failed to protect the Syrian people, it has severely damaged “international peace and security,” by accelerating the death and destruction visited upon Syria.

And the Security Council that has failed so miserably in Syria, now sits in judgment against Israel, a country that has actually saved thousands of Syrians, ostensibly their enemies, and promoting, by the way, “international peace and security.” And it sits in judgment this week, as news emerged that Israel has established a maternity hospital in Syrian territory because the American president noted that Israel should be treated like a normal country.

French President Emmanuel Macron said that there was a need to act because Trump’s declaration goes “against international law and all the resolutions of the U.N. Security Council.”

Two years ago, the very same Security Council wiped Iran’s record clean of its serial violations of “international law and all the resolutions of the U.N. Security Council” even after the International Atomic Energy Agency affirmed that Iran had a nuclear weapons program until at least 2009 – six years longer than previously believed.

Even as Iran had its record wiped clean by the nuclear deal, it was called upon by resolutions not to develop ballistic missiles that could carry nuclear warheads, a demand that Iran continues to defy without consequence.

And Hezbollah, like its patron Iran, sworn to Israel’s destruction, has amassed an arsenal and effectively taken control of Lebanon, all in defiance of U.N. Security Council resolution 1701, which said that no group other than the Lebanese government should be armed.

So Israel’s enemies continue to get stronger, threatening “international peace and security” generally — and Israel quite specifically — but Macron is exercised only over President Trump’s declaration that Israel should be treated like a normal country.

Lastly, the real danger to the Palestinian Authority is to its false narrative that “Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews with Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history and the true conception of what constitutes statehood.” It is a distorted history that it has pursued in international organizations like UNESCO, where it has gotten resolutions passed to deny 3,000 years of Jewish history, rather than negotiate in good faith with the Israelis. Former Israeli ambassador to the United States, Michael Oren, recently observed in a conference call with The Israel Project that, in the past 8+ years, the PA has spent all of six hours negotiating with Israel.

Abandoning those parts of its ideology, which deny Israel’s legitimacy, was a prerequisite for Israel accepting the Palestinians as negotiating partners. The PA’s efforts at rewriting 3,000 years of Jewish history should lead to condemnation and isolation from enlightened nations like the United Kingdom, France, Italy and Sweden. But instead, they embrace the PA in response to a move that says that Israel should be treated like a normal country.


http://www.thetower.org/5729-if-israel-were-a-normal-country/

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:16 pm


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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Original Quill on Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:00 am

There's actually a solution.  Trade Tel Aviv to the Palestinians, in exchange for Jerusalem.  

The Palestinians turn Tel Aviv into a resort, with its beautiful beaches and azure sea, and they reap all the money having a tourist destination.

Introduce gambling, and voila...you have the Las Vegas of the middle east.

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:24 am

Original Quill wrote:There's actually a solution.  Trade Tel Aviv to the Palestinians, in exchange for Jerusalem.  

The Palestinians turn Tel Aviv into a resort, with its beautiful beaches and azure sea, and they reap all the money having a tourist destination.

Introduce gambling, and voila...you have the Las Vegas of the middle east.

Yeah because the Palestinians did such a great job of making Palestine so great.

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“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief."

- Frantz Fanon
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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:18 am


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“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief."

- Frantz Fanon
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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Original Quill on Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:26 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:There's actually a solution.  Trade Tel Aviv to the Palestinians, in exchange for Jerusalem.  

The Palestinians turn Tel Aviv into a resort, with its beautiful beaches and azure sea, and they reap all the money having a tourist destination.

Introduce gambling, and voila...you have the Las Vegas of the middle east.

Yeah because the Palestinians did such a great job of making Palestine so great.

So, you are in favor of perpetual war between Israel and the Muslim world. I'd like to hear your defense of it.

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:38 pm

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

Yeah because the Palestinians did such a great job of making Palestine so great.

So, you are in favor of perpetual war between Israel and the Muslim world.  I'd like to hear your defense of it.


How is that backing a perpetual  war?

Again, all that is needed, is for the world to stop pandering to a child constantly having a tantrum not getting its way. That being the Palestinian authority. An invented nationality, created by the British in 1925. Who many Arabs never even defined themselves as (Jews did under the mandate), until the Soviet Union saw a way to creat oppostion to the west. By creating a new people to deny the very existance of a nation, that is a haven for a people that has suffered the longest persecution in history. In a land that was the genesis of them as a people. The Jews.

Its so absurd how the left continually pander to those who use threats and violence when not getting their way. Like any bad parent that bows down to the tantrums of children, they make for poor teachers.

The Arabs have colonized a mass of the middle East and North Africa and still this vast excess of land, is not enough to extinquish their thirst to control others through Islam itself.

Its a joke, how you continually insult many Muslims, thinking they want a perpetual war, based off claiming one city should be under their control. 

Its the same piss poor reasoning that led to Germany, starting a war, because it would not accept the right and self determination of the Polish people.

Are you going to argue Hitler was right?

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:16 pm

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

Yeah because the Palestinians did such a great job of making Palestine so great.

So, you are in favor of perpetual war between Israel and the Muslim world.  I'd like to hear your defense of it.

The Muslim world has been at war with Israel since 1948.

My defence of Israel is "never again"

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Original Quill on Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:18 pm

Didge wrote:How is that backing a perpetual war?

Perpetual war is what we have right now. The US has just declared it's allegiance to one side over the other. The two-state solution is dead, if it wasn't back in 2015 when Netanyahu was reelected.

To delegitimize the US as a promoter of peace in the conflict, means that what is, is what will be. I doubt that any one nation in Europe can fill the role. China, the only other power big enough, is not interested.

What we have is what will be for the next thousand years.

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:How is that backing a perpetual  war?

Perpetual war is what we have right now.  The US has just declared it's allegiance to one side over the other.  The two-state solution is dead, if it wasn't back in 2015 when Netanyahu was reelected.

To delegitimize the US as a promoter of peace in the conflict, means that what is, is what will be.  I doubt that any one nation in Europe can fill the role.  China, the only other power big enough, is not interested.

What we have is what will be for the next thousand years.

Errrrrr

I'm sorry I think k I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here.

You appear to be suggesting that trumps action have moved us from a period of stable peace and mutual cooperation between Israel and Palestine into a period of perpetual war.


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“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief."

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:31 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:How is that backing a perpetual  war?

Perpetual war is what we have right now.  The US has just declared it's allegiance to one side over the other.  The two-state solution is dead, if it wasn't back in 2015 when Netanyahu was reelected.

To delegitimize the US as a promoter of peace in the conflict, means that what is, is what will be.  I doubt that any one nation in Europe can fill the role.  China, the only other power big enough, is not interested.

What we have is what will be for the next thousand years.


Has it chosen a side?

I guess you never read Trumps speech did you?

What did it really say?

To say peace is dead, because Jerusalem, has been recognized as the capital of Israel. Shows you siding with those that want to continue war.

You do realise even Russia recognized Jerusalem as the capital back in April.

Was the peace deal dead then, when they did?

How can peace be dead, when it can happen today?

Like i said, many gulf states are fed up with the Palestinian authority. They see Iran as the threat and not Israel now. They are hoping that Israel will do what it has done before. Ensure its own survival, by taking out  nuke facilities in Iran, as it did in Syria and Iraq.

For you to claim peace is dead, means you back the view, that Jews are not entittled to their homeland and that we must pander to threats and violence from some Palestinians. Again, an invented people, created, simple to be in opposition to the state of Israel.

Its like the daft argument, that Jews expanding settlements in Judea (the genesis of the Jews) and Samaria, be a hinderence to peace. How can Jews living in their ancestral homeland stop the creation of a Palestinian state?

Does that mean that a Palestinian state, has to be what Hitler dreamed of?

A nation, being Judenrein?

Like I said, how much land for the Arabs is enough?

The only reason many arabs now live within the west bank, Gaza and Israel, was due to the ingenuity of Jews, making the land prospereous. That many migrated there, even after Jordan was created.

I mean Israel left Gaza with a well functioning economy and what did the people of Gaza do? Destroy this economy and elect extremists, which has left many Gazans without jobs.

Thankfully Israel allows thousands each year to have medical treatment.

So how is the peace deal dead?

Because the tantrum child the PLO and Hamas, does not like a nation recognizing a countries capital?

Again, we are back to Hitler, not liking the existance of Poland.

Just as the Palestinian authorities not liking the existance of Israel


Last edited by Didge on Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Original Quill on Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:31 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Perpetual war is what we have right now.  The US has just declared it's allegiance to one side over the other.  The two-state solution is dead, if it wasn't back in 2015 when Netanyahu was reelected.

To delegitimize the US as a promoter of peace in the conflict, means that what is, is what will be.  I doubt that any one nation in Europe can fill the role.  China, the only other power big enough, is not interested.

What we have is what will be for the next thousand years.

Errrrrr

I'm sorry I think k I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here.

You appear to be suggesting that trumps action have moved us from a period of stable peace and mutual cooperation between Israel and Palestine into a period of perpetual war.

To the contrary, I said "perpetual war is what we have right now." Heretofore, the US had been the only viable force working for peace in the middle east. Now that is gone.

It's the law of inertia: in the absence of any force to change the vector, what is, is what will be.

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Original Quill on Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:38 pm

Didge wrote:Has it chosen a side?

It has destroyed its credibility to act as an independent. Surely the Muslims will never again trust the Divided States, if it ever did after 2015.

It's not our problem anyway. I'm glad we are over here, half the world away.

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:41 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Has it chosen a side?

It has destroyed its credibility to act as an independent.  Surely the Muslims will never again trust the Divided States, if it ever did after 2015.

It's not our problem anyway.  I'm glad we are over here, half the world away.  


You avoided the points and you are again castigating all Muslims, when most will not give a fuck

Try again .

Not going to pander to your contiunual avoidance

I guess you never read Trumps speech did you?

What did it really say?

To say peace is dead, because Jerusalem, has been recognized as the capital of Israel. Shows you siding with those that want to continue war.

You do realise even Russia recognized Jerusalem as the capital back in April.

Was the peace deal dead then, when they did?

How can peace be dead, when it can happen today?

Like i said, many gulf states are fed up with the Palestinian authority. They see Iran as the threat and not Israel now. They are hoping that Israel will do what it has done before. Ensure its own survival, by taking out  nuke facilities in Iran, as it did in Syria and Iraq.

For you to claim peace is dead, means you back the view, that Jews are not entittled to their homeland and that we must pander to threats and violence from some Palestinians. Again, an invented people, created, simple to be in opposition to the state of Israel.

Its like the daft argument, that Jews expanding settlements in Judea (the genesis of the Jews) and Samaria, be a hinderence to peace. How can Jews living in their ancestral homeland stop the creation of a Palestinian state?

Does that mean that a Palestinian state, has to be what Hitler dreamed of?

A nation, being Judenrein?

Like I said, how much land for the Arabs is enough?

The only reason many arabs now live within the west bank, Gaza and Israel, was due to the ingenuity of Jews, making the land prospereous. That many migrated there, even after Jordan was created.

I mean Israel left Gaza with a well functioning economy and what did the people of Gaza do? Destroy this economy and elect extremists, which has left many Gazans without jobs.

Thankfully Israel allows thousands each year to have medical treatment.

So how is the peace deal dead?

Because the tantrum child the PLO and Hamas, does not like a nation recognizing a countries capital?

Again, we are back to Hitler, not liking the existance of Poland.

Just as the Palestinian authorities not liking the existance of Israel

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Original Quill on Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:59 pm

Didge wrote:You avoided the points and you are again castigating all Muslims, when most will not give a fuck

How often do I have to make this point before it sinks in?  There are 1.6-billion Muslims in the world.  

It is very much like the Greek phalanx formation... when one falls, another steps in.  We've gone from the Baath party, to al Qaeda, to AQAP, to ISIL...with many others waiting to step in.  With that many people, perpetual war is inevitable.

You say: "most don't give a fuck".  You've spent the last several years railing about how fanatical and religiously motivated they are, and now you say they don't give a fuck?  You'd better check the wires of your argument.  There's a short somewhere.


Last edited by Original Quill on Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:59 pm

Israeli warplanes batter Gaza with missiles after day of rage over Trump's Jerusalem announcement: Air strikes injure 15 after terrorists launched rocket attack

Israeli warplanes rained down missiles on Gaza overnight in retaliation for rockets shot into Israel as violent protests continued today following Donald Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as the country's capital.

Targets included two weapons manufacturing sites, a military compound and an arsenal. Reports in Gaza said that 15 people were injured in the strikes, including a six-month-old boy.

Two members of Hamas were killed by strikes on the Hamas facility at Nusseirat in central Gaza, officials said.

The attack was a response to rocket fire from the Gaza Strip on Friday which forced Israeli civilians in the south of the country to run for cover as air raid sirens blared for the first time since the unrest began.

One rocket fell short, the second was intercepted by Israel's Iron Dome missile defence system, and one landed in the southern Israeli city of Sderot, damaging property but causing no casualties.

The Israeli Defence Force blamed Palestine for the deaths and injuries caused by its retaliation. It said in a statement: 'The IDF views the shooting at Israeli communities severely. Hamas is solely responsible for what happens in the Gaza Strip.'

Today hundreds of Palestinian protesters marched from the town of Khan Younis, in Gaza, towards the Israeli border fence, with ambulances standing by in anticipation of casualties.

As the violence intensified, police forcibly closed shops along the streets. Dramatic video taken by MailOnline reporter Jake Wallis Simons showed mounted Israeli police, backed up by officers shooting teargas, violently dispersing a demonstration in the heart of Arab East Jerusalem.

About 100 demonstrators gathered at lunchtime, chanting 'Jerusalem is Palestine' and stopping traffic. Their intention was to march on the Old City, a short walk away.

Police moved in quickly as the tension mounted. One woman was injured before officers on horseback charged the growing crowds, demonstrators and bystanders alike.

Teargas and stun grenades were deployed as increasing numbers of protestors fled into nearby buildings and down Salah e-Din Street, the main commercial street of East Jerusalem

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5162139/Israeli-warplanes-batter-Gaza-missiles.html

LOL

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Original Quill on Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:00 pm

Perpetual war.

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:02 pm

EXCELLENT TRUMP: 7 Reasons Trump Would Be Right To Recognize Jerusalem As Israel's Eternal Capital

On Tuesday, the White House announced that President Trump would declare that the United States recognizes Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, and that the government would begin the process of moving the American embassy to the Israeli capital. He will sign a six-month waiver designed to put off the actual legal obligation to move the embassy, however.

This move follows a day of Trump calling Middle Eastern leaders including Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who threatened the outbreak of violence and said there would be no Palestinian state without East Jerusalem as its capital; Saudi King Salman, who suggested that such an announcement would “harm peace negotiations and increase tension in the region”; and the King of Jordan, who warned of “dangerous repercussions

Trump’s move would be a powerful one, a legal one, and a wise one. Here are seven reasons why.

1. Jerusalem Is The Eternal Capital Of Israel. Jerusalem is only important because the Jews made it important; it was the capital of the kingdom of Israel, the site of the Temple, and the wellspring of Judaic thought for millennia. Both Christianity and Islam value Jerusalem because Judaism did. The dream of Jerusalem has animated the Jewish people for its entire existence; there is a reason the Psalms (137:5) state, “If I forget thee, Jerusalem, may my right hand forget its skill.” Jerusalem is mentioned hundreds of times in the Prophets and Writings (during the time of the Torah, it was not yet called Jerusalem). By contrast, Jerusalem is not mentioned at all in the Koran. If Jews do not have a historic claim to Jerusalem, they have no historic claim to any part of Israel, including Tel Aviv.

2. Congress Has Long Recognized Jerusalem As Israel’s Capital. In 1995, Congress passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act, requiring the movement of the American Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. The act also said that Jerusalem should be undivided and be recognized as the capital of Israel. The executive branch has refused to implement the law thanks to both political and separation of powers concerns. Trump would merely be stamping Congressional law with approval. That law, by the way, passed 93-5 in the Senate and 374-37 in the House.

3. Recognizing Jerusalem As Israel’s Capital Recognizes Israel’s Sovereignty. By removing the United States from the position of pressuring Israel to sacrifice its historic, religious, strategic capital, Israel will now be able to negotiate on its own behalf. That means that the U.S. will no longer be in a position to twist the arm of our closest ally in order to pursue separate strategic interests. Imagine the United States pressuring Great Britain to hand over all of Belfast to the IRA. That’s what the U.S. has been doing to Israel for years.

4. Recognizing Jerusalem As Israel’s Capital Will Minimize Violence. Every time negotiations fail, the Palestinians threaten violence and participate in terrorism. The sticking point for such negotiations has generally been Jerusalem — that’s the excuse the Palestinian Authority and Hamas use to launch campaigns of terror, to international approval thanks to the international community’s refusal to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. They hope that using violence as a tactic will earn concessions from Israel, or pressure from the West on Israel. By leading the charge to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, the United States will be sending the unmistakable signal that violence over Jerusalem will not be tolerated, and that pressure tactics through murder will earn no rewards.

5. Showing The United States Will Not Be Bullied By Terrorists Is Good Policy. The entire Oslo Accords was based on a blackmail program: Palestinians vowed not to murder Jews if Jews turned over land. That deal wasn’t just blackmail, it was a lie: Israel offered many generous peace deals, and the Palestinians responded with terror waves. The United States shouldn’t participate in such blackmail. If the Palestinians threaten violence, Trump should drop the other shoe: he should refuse to authorize the release of foreign aid to the terrorist government. There’s no reason taxpayers should be paying terrorists in the first place.

6. Recognizing Reality Makes Peace More Possible. A few days ago, the Saudi monarchy reportedly summoned Palestinian leadership and told them to support a peace deal with the Israelis. That deal would retain major Israeli settlement blocs, prevent the establishment of a Palestinian standing army, and leave the PA without Jerusalem as a Palestinian capital. By declaring Jerusalem Israel’s undivided capital, the United States would remove any other option from the table, thereby pressuring both the Saudis and the Palestinians into accepting that deal.

7. Recognizing Jerusalem Means Cementing The Anti-Iranian Alliance. President Obama's horrific foreign policy united Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Israel against Iran. But that alliance cannot be cemented until realities are recognized by all parties. Just as George H.W. Bush should have allowed Israel to join the coalition against Saddam Hussein during the Gulf War in order to force the Muslim states to recognize that their common interests with Israel outstripped their differences, Trump would be right to make clear to all parties that Israel has control over its own capital, and that the price of alliance is recognition of reality.

Jerusalem is, was, and always will be Israel’s capital. Failing to recognize that is a slap in the face to history, to reality, and to Israel itself. If Trump does what is necessary, he’ll deserve credit not just for bravery, but for decency.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/24354/excellent-trump-7-reasons-trump-would-be-right-ben-shapiro?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:03 pm

Original Quill wrote:Perpetual war.

Safest place to be

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:10 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:You avoided the points and you are again castigating all Muslims, when most will not give a fuck

How often do I have to make this point before it sinks in?  There are 1.6-billion Muslims in the world.  

It is very much like the Greek phalanx formation... when one falls, another steps in.  We've gone from the Baath party, to al Qaeda, to AQAP, to ISIL...with many others waiting to step in.  With that many people, perpetual war is inevitable.

You say: "most don't give a fuck".  You've spent the last several years railing about how fanatical and religiously motivated they are, and now you say they don't give a fuck?  You'd better check the wires of your argument.  There's a short somewhere.


Have I?

I have stated and been critical of problems within religious text.

That means I have been critical of an ideology, just as I have alwaysb been of all the abrahamic religions.

I have stressed many times, that the most appalling concept is "Herem" in Judaism, which is a concept of genocide.

The reality is, that I have seen change in Muslims in their opinions. One of the greatest testaments of this is actually American Muslims. Manyy have integrated and not fallen foul of Saudi or Iranian dogmatic propaganda. Promoted in Mosques and schools. Sadly the European west has.

That does not mean all Muslims follow or back such poor beliefs, but a massive percentage of them do.

So I speak out on wrongs, espcially, when many Muslim women suffer and even worse gays have little rights.

The reality is this.

Israel is a mere mimute spec of land and it has had the Arab world up in arms. Over Arabs not being indegeneous, but as conquerers. That because they once conquered the land, that this some how trumps all claims to the land. Where even worse they reinvent history and claim they are Cannanites (even though no Palestinian today follows any of their deities, speaks the language or recites any works they did), which is horseshit. Where even worse they try to deny thousands of years of Jewish history. All based on not wanting to have a people in the land not rulled by Islamic doctrine.

What is worse by this idea, is that any Muslim at odds with this, simple is ignoring the Quran. Which states emphatically, that the land belongs to the Jews.

You see, you always turn this onto me, as does Eilzel, Elmer Fudd ect, when you cannot counter points.

Its what the left always does.

The reality is this. Its the Arab and Muslim world that incites hate over this. Its why 900,000 Jews were ethnically cleansed from the middle east and north Africa, after the creation of Israel.

What you do, is bow down to threats. You want peace and think peace can come from appeasement.

How did that work out for Neville Chamberlain?

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:27 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:You avoided the points and you are again castigating all Muslims, when most will not give a fuck

How often do I have to make this point before it sinks in?  There are 1.6-billion Muslims in the world.  

It is very much like the Greek phalanx formation... when one falls, another steps in.  We've gone from the Baath party, to al Qaeda, to AQAP, to ISIL...with many others waiting to step in.  With that many people, perpetual war is inevitable.

You say: "most don't give a fuck".  You've spent the last several years railing about how fanatical and religiously motivated they are, and now you say they don't give a fuck?  You'd better check the wires of your argument.  There's a short somewhere.

It's been that way since the 7th century Quill, ever heard of a small skirmish back in the day called "the crusades"??

Started by Muslims and been continued ever since??


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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:33 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

How often do I have to make this point before it sinks in?  There are 1.6-billion Muslims in the world.  

It is very much like the Greek phalanx formation... when one falls, another steps in.  We've gone from the Baath party, to al Qaeda, to AQAP, to ISIL...with many others waiting to step in.  With that many people, perpetual war is inevitable.

You say: "most don't give a fuck".  You've spent the last several years railing about how fanatical and religiously motivated they are, and now you say they don't give a fuck?  You'd better check the wires of your argument.  There's a short somewhere.

It's been that way since the 7th century Quill, ever heard of a small skirmish back in the day called "the crusades"??

Started by Muslims and been continued ever since??


Yet more revisionist history

The crusades was certainly a calling. Based on Europeans, thinking they had the rights to lands held formely by greek speaking peoples, within the Byzantine Empire. Where once the greeks were formely colonialists

If that is not confusing enough. Many that conquered the Holy Lands, were petty minor Frankish warlords. More interested in carving out kingdoms for themselves

So, in reality, the Muslims, did not start this, the Catholic west did, based upon appeals from the Orthodox Christians. east.

Where by the fourth Crusade, the Catholic crusaders sacked Constantinople and butchered countless Orthodox Christians.

Maybe smelly can tell me, how the Muslims, started that conquest?

Or the crusade against the Cathars?

I mean , essentially, smelly is arguing the same bullshit claims as the Arabs today with Jerusalem over these lands, based only on religion

Answers on a postcard I guess

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:29 pm

SAVAGE



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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Angry Andy on Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:39 pm

Dont be in a hurry for a reply from Stench, Quill.
He is still at the colouring book stage.

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:42 pm

Angry Andy wrote:Dont be in a hurry for a reply from Stench, Quill.
He is still at the colouring book stage.

Quill just miffed that the god emperor has fulfilled his campaign promise and even CNN is praising him

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by smelly-bandit on Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:19 am



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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by smelly-bandit on Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:49 am

Trump: ‘Jerusalem is the capital of Israel’.
Muslim world: ‘We call for a day of rage’.
The rest of the world: ‘When exactly? You already have 365 of those a year’.

Religion. Of. Peace. #jerusalem4ever

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:05 am



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=27&v=D9ZrbQTCczI

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Original Quill on Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:08 pm

Now that the Divided States has abandoned middle-east peace, we should have a name for the resultant conflict.

Perhaps the Muslim-Christian War? It's epic-sounding, and at the same time, quite apt. Any others?

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:11 pm

Original Quill wrote:Now that the Divided States has abandoned middle-east peace, we should have a name for the resultant conflict.

Perhaps the Muslim-Christian War?  It's epic-sounding, and at the same time, quite apt.  Any others?

"Toddler Tantrum violence and terrorism"

How has any peace been abandomed?

You mean again some Muslims cannot stomach the thought of Jews being control of a city that is historically Jewish?

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:13 pm

The extraordinary UN debate over The US recognition of Jerusalem was indeed extraordinary. Never has this council been convened over the actions of one state recognizing the capital of another, something which is, in every other example in history, a pretty benign decision.

But some of the speeches made at the debate indicate that the UN is still schizophrenic as to the actual legal status of Jerusalem.

When it comes to the areas to the east of the Green Line, it is considered "occupied Palestinian territory."

But when it comes to the west of the same line, it is still not considered Israeli. In that case it is "corpus separatum" - a completely separate territory that was envisioned as an international city under UNGA 181, which was never implemented.

So we saw the representative from Uruguay say "Yesterday a communiqué was issued by my government affirming our support to resolution 181 establishing a Jewish state with Jerusalem as corpus separatum."

And Sweden, which was one of the countries behind the special session, said "We requested this meeting, along with 7 others due to the repurcussions of the statement made by US president. We clearly disagree with the capital of Israel as Jerusalem and the move of the embassy. It contradicts international law; Jerusalem is a final status issue. Already in 1947, the UN attributed to Jerusalem a special legal and political status as corpus separatum.."

The representative from France said "France recognizes no sovereignty over Jerusalem."

And Nickolay Mladenov, UN Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process, invoked UNGA 181 in his speech as well.

However, the other UNSC resolutions invoked over Jerusalem during the debate - especially 252478 and 2334 - do not refer to UNGA 181, and are more concerned over territories liberated by Israel in 1967. No one seems to be considering those territories to be part of the "corpus separatum" that appears to animate the UN's insistence that even the western part of the city not be under Israeli sovereignty.

If all of Jerusalem was a corpus separatum, then Bethlehem and many other towns considered "Palestinian" would no longer be considered Palestinian at all, but all part of the international city envisioned by UNGA 181.Yet no one claims that Bethlehem is anything but "Palestinian," which itself is a peculiar legal status given that no one can point to any date when the land was legally recognized to be transferred from Jordanian control to Palestinian control.

We see here that even within the context of a single debate, the hypocrisy and latent antisemitism of the world community is exposed. If "east Jerusalem" is Palestinian than "west Jerusalem"is Israeli; if "west Jerusalem"is an international city than so is all of the area up through Bethlehem. But the UN and its members use literal doubletalk to avoid these contradictions.

There is only a single thread of consistency within these two definitions. One is designed to wrest control of the western side of the city from Jews, and the other designed to wrest control of the eastern part of the city from Jews.

After all, otherwise why would an embassy on the west side of the Green Line be cause for an extraordinary debate to begin with?

And once you understand that, everything else makes sense. Legal definitions and UN resolutions are simply fig leaves for the UN's and its member states' antisemitism.


http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2017/12/unsc-debate-indicates-that-west.html

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:15 pm

Those on the left side of American politics who were aghast at the idea of a US President moving the American Embassy to Jerusalem might be surprised to know that the idea that the US has the absolute right to do so was enunciated under the Carter administration.

UNSC 478 (1980) , along with condemning Israel for annexing Jerusalem, called upon "Those States that have established diplomatic missions at Jerusalem to withdraw such missions from the Holy City." 

Even though the US shamefully abstained from vetoing that anti-Israel resolution, US Secretary of State Edmund Muskie forcefully rejected the dictate from the UN:

[T]he Council calls upon those States that have established  diplomatic missions in Jerusalem to withdraw them from the Holy City. In our judgement this provision is not binding. It is without force. And we reject it as a disruptive attempt to dictate to other nations. it does nothing to promote a resolution of the difficult problems facing Israel and its neighbours. It does nothing to advance the cause of peace. 
So the US maintained the right, if it should ever want, to establish the US embassy in Jerusalem.

One other thing. During the debate on Friday, a number of ambassadors stressed that all countries withdrew their embassies from Jerusalem after the 1980 UNSC resolution, emphasizing how the US would now be breaking an international consensus.

But the language of UNSC 478 was not about embassies, but about any diplomatic missions.

And here's a list of countries with consulates in Jerusalem:

 Belgium, in East Jerusalem
 France in West Jerusalem
 Greece in West Jerusalem
 Holy See (Apostolic Delegation to Jerusalem and Palestine) in East Jerusalem
 Italy, with seats in both East and West Jerusalem
 Spain, in East Jerusalem
 Sweden in East Jerusalem
 Turkey in East Jerusalem. 
 United Kingdom in East Jerusalem
 United States, in West Jerusalem

Many of these provide services for Palestinians, but UNSC 478 doesn't have an exception for those cases. It calls on any nation with diplomatic missions in Jerusalem to withdraw them. Period.

So when France, Sweden, the UK and others spoke at the Security Council on Friday and invoked UNSC 478 as a UN resolution that the US was breaking....they are breaking it, too. Every day.


http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2017/12/the-right-to-move-embassy-to-jerusalem.html

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by nicko on Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:35 pm

The UN is a "Busted Flush" has been for years, Saw them in Bosnia, allowed them selves to be captured by Serbs , their weapons taken, and then they were tied to Telephone poles. Load of Wimps !
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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Original Quill on Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:36 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Now that the Divided States has abandoned middle-east peace, we should have a name for the resultant conflict.

Perhaps the Muslim-Christian War?  It's epic-sounding, and at the same time, quite apt.  Any others?

"Toddler Tantrum violence and terrorism"

Too long. Also, the benefit of a tag, as opposed to a protracted description, is it captivates in three words of less the who/what/why of the designated party. "Toddler Tantrum" might be good, except it would apply to many, many conflicts. Needs more specificity.

Didge wrote:How has any peace been abandomed?

You mean again some Muslims cannot stomach the thought of Jews being control of a city that is historically Jewish?

Look around. Do you see peace anywhere?

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:41 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

"Toddler Tantrum violence and terrorism"

Too long.  Also, the benefit of a tag, as opposed to a protracted description, is it captivates in three words of less the who/what/why of the designated party.  "Toddler Tantrum" might be good, except it would apply to many, many conflicts.  Needs more specificity.

Didge wrote:How has any peace been abandomed?

You mean again some Muslims cannot stomach the thought of Jews being control of a city that is historically Jewish?

Look around.  Do you see peace anywhere?


According to the Times of Israel, one important reason for Jerusalem’s overall calm was a decision not to place restrictions on Friday’s Temple Mount prayers:
On Thursday and Friday at the Damascus Gate, often a focal point of protest and violence, journalists outnumbered the protesters — a sign that news editors had taken Hamas’s repeated entreaties for a new intifada more seriously than the Palestinians themselves.
On Saturday in Jerusalem, the protests were smaller still.
And outside of this one congested point in the city, life has gone on as normal . . .
Without Arab Jerusalemites taking a central part in protests surrounding the fate of their city, it may be that the furious demonstrations elsewhere — in the West Bank, the region and beyond — may fade away as well.


Considering there is 1.6 billion Muslims, the protests are small and isolated

So any violence is based on the rally cries from Muslim leaders, who you should be condemning.

There is no valid reason for any Muslims to outraged over what their own Quran teaches the lands belonging to the Jews.

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Original Quill on Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:09 pm

Pointless Didge wrote:Considering there is 1.6 billion Muslims, the protests are small and isolated

The point isn't to expect a proportionate response.  The point is that with 1.6 in population around the world, you are guaranteed an endless supply of soldiers.

When one's enemy closes avenues of peace and throws fuel on the bonfire of war, the Muslims are assured they will have hoplites to do fill in.


Last edited by Original Quill on Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:13 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Pointless Didge wrote:Considering there is 1.6 billion Muslims, the protests are small and isolated

The point isn't to expect a proportionate response.  The point is that with 1.6 in population around the world, you are guaranteed an endless supply of soldiers.

When you close avenues of peace and throw fuel on the bonfire of war, the Muslims are assured they will have hoplites to do battle.


Why expect any reponse, unless you think there is something inherantly wrong with Islam?

No avenue has been closed, it has always been denied by the Paslestinian authorities

5 times they have spurned the chance to have a nation and peace.

As they have always been the problem in spuring peace, as they continually reject the right of Israel to exist.

This has always been the problem.

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:16 pm

Original Quill wrote:Now that the Divided States has abandoned middle-east peace, we should have a name for the resultant conflict.

Perhaps the Muslim-Christian War?  It's epic-sounding, and at the same time, quite apt.  Any others?

Although I would not wish it upon the world, would not Crusade be a perfectly adequate and appropriate word?
Historically it has an impressive precedence.
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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Original Quill on Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:18 pm

Pointless Didge wrote:No avenue has been closed, it has always been denied by the Paslestinian authorities

Where is the open door? There is no one bidding for peace.

With 1.6 billion people, surrender is not an option. Someone, somewhere, is going to step in. And the war continues and will continue for the next thousand years. (And really, why would it end there?)

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Pointless Didge wrote:No avenue has been closed, it has always been denied by the Paslestinian authorities

Where is the open door?  There is no one bidding for peace.

With 1.6 billion people, surrender is not an option.  Someone, somewhere, is going to step in.  And the war continues and will continue for the next thousand years.  (And really, why would it end there?)


That is because the Arabs reffuse to allow any land to secede to anyone as taught within Islam

That has always been the problem

You though do not question this, when the Arabs conquered the territory themselves and Arbianized the area. Just as we saw colonization with the Europeans.

Now you think European Colonization is wrong, why not Arabization?

So by your views you are inherantly claiming there is somethung emphatically wrong with Islam

So again

[5 times they have spurned the chance to have a nation and peace.

As they have always been the problem in spuring peace, as they continually reject the right of Israel to exist.

This has always been the problem.

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:22 pm

There was an anti-Trump rally in Kuwait on Saturday organized by the Palestinian embassy there.

The speeches all had a similar theme.

The "Ambassador of the State of Palestine," Rami Tahboub, said that Jerusalem will remain an "Arab Christian Islamic" city and the capital of the eternal state of Palestine, and it is a red line.

The Ambassador of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan Saqr Abu Shattal  expressed Jordanian-Palestinian unity and their common interest  in protecting Islamic and Christian holy sites in Jerusalem.

The Secretary General of the Kuwaiti Democratic Forum, Bandar Al-Khairan, stressed the support of the Kuwaiti people to Palestine, and that Jerusalem is an Islamic Christian Arab city

Spokeswoman Lulwa Mulla condemned the American decision, considered it null and void, and stressed that Jerusalem will remain a Muslim Arab Christian city.

When speaking in English, the Arab critics of Trump's move are careful to talk about the importance of Jerusalem to all three major monotheistic religions, and how Muslims and Jews lived in harmony in Palestine for centuries before Zionism, and other soothing liberal-sounding phrases.

But listen to them in Arabic and the idea that Jews have any connection or right to live in Jerusalem is simply not acceptable. It is an Islamic and Christian, and always Arab, city. 


http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2017/12/speaking-in-arabic-arabs-agree-there-is.html

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Original Quill on Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:33 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Where is the open door?  There is no one bidding for peace.

With 1.6 billion people, surrender is not an option.  Someone, somewhere, is going to step in.  And the war continues and will continue for the next thousand years.  (And really, why would it end there?)


That is because the Arabs reffuse to allow any land to secede to anyone as taught within Islam

That has always been the problem

You though do not question this, when the Arabs conquered the territory themselves and Arbianized the area. Just as we saw colonization with the Europeans.

Now you think European Colonization is wrong, why not Arabization?

So by your views you are inherantly claiming there is somethung emphatically wrong with Islam

So again

[5 times they have spurned the chance to have a nation and peace.

As they have always been the problem in spuring peace, as they continually reject the right of Israel to exist.

This has always been the problem.

Right: perpetual war.

We don't really differ on what is going on right now. But, will it change when no one is trying? America has thrown in the towel. Europe doesn't have the capacity. China doesn't care.

Ergo: perpetual war.

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:36 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:


That is because the Arabs reffuse to allow any land to secede to anyone as taught within Islam

That has always been the problem

You though do not question this, when the Arabs conquered the territory themselves and Arbianized the area. Just as we saw colonization with the Europeans.

Now you think European Colonization is wrong, why not Arabization?

So by your views you are inherantly claiming there is somethung emphatically wrong with Islam

So again

[5 times they have spurned the chance to have a nation and peace.

As they have always been the problem in spuring peace, as they continually reject the right of Israel to exist.

This has always been the problem.

Right: perpetual war.

We don't really differ on what is going on right now.  But, will it change when no one is trying?  America has thrown in the towel.  Europe doesn't have the capacity.  China doesn't care.

Ergo: perpetual war.


No not perpetual war.

The world simnple has to say enough is enough and stop pandering and bowing dow to the violence of Muslims

Well Israel does not care if attacked again, they will simple destroy the military capabilities of those attackers.

Like I have said already. Israel needs to do what the allies did to Germany

Nazi Germany like the Palestinians reffused to accept the right of self determination of people and paid the consequences

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Original Quill on Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:53 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Right: perpetual war.

We don't really differ on what is going on right now.  But, will it change when no one is trying?  America has thrown in the towel.  Europe doesn't have the capacity.  China doesn't care.

Ergo: perpetual war.


No not perpetual war.

The world simnple has to say enough is enough and stop pandering and bowing dow to the violence of Muslims

Not likely.  There's 1.6-billion of them.  And they think they are right.

Didge wrote:Well Israel does not care if attacked again, they will simple destroy the military capabilities of those attackers.

Like I have said already. Israel needs to do what the allies did to Germany

Nazi Germany like the Palestinians reffused to accept the right of self determination of people and payed the consequences

You keep thinking in conventional war terms, when we are in the era of asymmetrical war.  The European style of a single, confrontational  mêlée is no more.  Islam has neither a country to lose, nor does it have a military to be defeated.  The analogy to Germany or Japan, or any other political entity, is inapt. They are just 1.6-billion individuals with the same ideology.

Islam is an idea.  Ideas don't die unless the mind is changed.  That's where diplomacy comes in.  Ideas won't be changed if doors are closed.

Perpetual war.

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:57 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:


No not perpetual war.

The world simnple has to say enough is enough and stop pandering and bowing dow to the violence of Muslims

Not likely.  There's 1.6-billion of them.  And they think they are right.

Didge wrote:Its very likely being that the vast majority of 1.6 billion simple do not care and neither should they
Again it was the Israeli's that have always been attacked by Arab nation states and always defeated them.

The world is turning away from its relience on oil, which will leave the Arab states without anything to hold nations to ransom on anymore.

You keep thinking in conventional war terms, when we are in the era of asymmetrical war.  The European style of a single, confrontational  mêlée is no more.  Islam has neither a country to lose, nor does it have a military to be defeated.  The analogy to Germany or Japan, or any other political entity, is inapt.

Islam is an idea.  Ideas don't die unless the mind is changed.  That's where diplomacy comes in.  Ideas won't be changed if doors are closed.

Perpetual war.


We have been over this before on this very thread

Again, all that is needed, is for the world to stop pandering to a child constantly having a tantrum not getting its way. That being the Palestinian authority. An invented nationality, created by the British in 1925. Who many Arabs never even defined themselves as (Jews did under the mandate), until the Soviet Union saw a way to creat oppostion to the west. By creating a new people to deny the very existance of a nation, that is a haven for a people that has suffered the longest persecution in history. In a land that was the genesis of them as a people. The Jews.

Its so absurd how the left continually pander to those who use threats and violence when not getting their way. Like any bad parent that bows down to the tantrums of children, they make for poor teachers.

The Arabs have colonized a mass of the middle East and North Africa and still this vast excess of land, is not enough to extinquish their thirst to control others through Islam itself.

Its a joke, how you continually insult many Muslims, thinking they want a perpetual war, based off claiming one city should be under their control. 

Its the same piss poor reasoning that led to Germany, starting a war, because it would not accept the right and self determination of the Polish people.

Are you going to argue Hitler was right?

Nazism, is also an ideology

To say peace is dead, because Jerusalem, has been recognized as the capital of Israel. Shows you siding with those that want to continue war.

You do realise even Russia recognized Jerusalem as the capital back in April.

Was the peace deal dead then, when they did?

How can peace be dead, when it can happen today?

Like i said, many gulf states are fed up with the Palestinian authority. They see Iran as the threat and not Israel now. They are hoping that Israel will do what it has done before. Ensure its own survival, by taking out  nuke facilities in Iran, as it did in Syria and Iraq.

For you to claim peace is dead, means you back the view, that Jews are not entittled to their homeland and that we must pander to threats and violence from some Palestinians. Again, an invented people, created, simple to be in opposition to the state of Israel.

Its like the daft argument, that Jews expanding settlements in Judea (the genesis of the Jews) and Samaria, be a hinderence to peace. How can Jews living in their ancestral homeland stop the creation of a Palestinian state?

Does that mean that a Palestinian state, has to be what Hitler dreamed of?

A nation, being Judenrein?

Like I said, how much land for the Arabs is enough?

The only reason many arabs now live within the west bank, Gaza and Israel, was due to the ingenuity of Jews, making the land prospereous. That many migrated there, even after Jordan was created.

I mean Israel left Gaza with a well functioning economy and what did the people of Gaza do? Destroy this economy and elect extremists, which has left many Gazans without jobs.

Thankfully Israel allows thousands each year to have medical treatment.

So how is the peace deal dead?

Because the tantrum child the PLO and Hamas, does not like a nation recognizing a countries capital?

Again, we are back to Hitler, not liking the existance of Poland.

Just as the Palestinian authorities not liking the existance of Israel

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by smelly-bandit on Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:00 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Pointless Didge wrote:Considering there is 1.6 billion Muslims, the protests are small and isolated

The point isn't to expect a proportionate response.  The point is that with 1.6 in population around the world, you are guaranteed an endless supply of soldiers.

When one's enemy closes avenues of peace and throws fuel on the bonfire of war, the Muslims are assured they will have hoplites to do fill in.

Someone's been watching to many Hollywood films.

1.6-billion Muslims haven't just sprung up out of the ground to suddenly start waging war.

They have been around waging war on Israel since 1948.

Rolling Eyes


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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Original Quill on Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:01 pm

Didge wrote:Again, all that is needed, is for the world to stop pandering to a child constantly having a tantrum not getting its way.

It's not a question of adjectives.  It's simply an issue of power.

Half the world is Islam.  They are not going to agree with you that they are children throwing tantrums.  So, the mission you describe is futile.

Perpetual war.

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Re: Trump likely to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital next week

Post by Didge on Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:04 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Again, all that is needed, is for the world to stop pandering to a child constantly having a tantrum not getting its way.

It's not a question of adjectives.  It's simply an issue of power.

Half the world is Islam.  They are not going to agree with you that they are children throwing tantrums.  So, the mission you describe is futile.

Perpetual war.


Half?

Maths not your strong point then.

You claim 1.6 billion is half of 7.5 billion?

There has laready been a continuious war from islamic states, since its inception.

So nothing new there, they will though end up pissing the world off too much, and have their economies and industries destroyed

Quite simple really

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