If god is all powerful why does he allow sin?

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:13 pm

First topic message reminder :

Apparently homosexuality is a sin - if you put a certain spin on the bible texts.

Yet it is claimed god is all powerful.

If he is all powerful why did he create homosexuality?

If he is all powerful why does he refuse to help those who believe that interpretation of the bible when they beg him to help them change?

Surely the evidence is that if god does exist he is one sadistic bugger.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:16 pm

Korben Dallas wrote:
Sassy wrote:

Yep, I'd say they were almost mild in comparison, and that's saying something.
er...ok who is HF ....dont say duruum ffs other wise i might shoot myself

Remember the deadly duo of vicar of dibley and husband - HF is the husband half. If you can believe anything that comes out of their keyboards.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:16 pm

Queen Of Hearts wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Does not have to be as it is all about faith and what you believe yourself.

Yep.
A God could be anything, a God could think anything, a God mightn't even think.
The possibilities in relation to the existence of a God or Gods are endless when you stop restricting yourself to how Gods are depicted in the various religions.



Indeed and there is no attachment of laws, codes or morals, would not be easy to just dismiss out of hand unlike the fanciful contradicting ones from the main or written religions!

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:20 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Queen Of Hearts wrote:Why does God have to be the God as depicted in the abrahamic religions?

Does not have to be as it is all about faith and what you believe yourself.

Actually I opened this thread to deal with stuff HF was saying on other threads - as he claims an Abrahamic faith the god I referred to was indeed the abrahamic one.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:23 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Queen Of Hearts wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Does not have to be as it is all about faith and what you believe yourself.

Yep.
A God could be anything, a God could think anything, a God mightn't even think.
The possibilities in relation to the existence of a God or Gods are endless when you stop restricting yourself to how Gods are depicted in the various religions.



Indeed and there is no attachment of laws, codes or morals, would not be easy to just dismiss out of hand unlike the fanciful contradicting ones from the main or written religions!

My desk could be God, if God doesn't do anything but hold up my computer. I don't see the point in worrying about any kind of God, whether depicted in religion or not, if it doesn't have any proven influence on your life.

http://web.med.harvard.edu/sites/RELEASES/html/3_31STEP.html

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:24 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:



Indeed and there is no attachment of laws, codes or morals, would not be easy to just dismiss out of hand unlike the fanciful contradicting ones from the main or written religions!

My desk could be God, if God doesn't do anything but hold up my computer. I don't see the point in worrying about any kind of God, whether depicted in religion or not, if it doesn't have any proven influence on your life.

http://web.med.harvard.edu/sites/RELEASES/html/3_31STEP.html



I know it doesn't Ben, that is why I do not believe, but do hold a great interest in theology!

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:26 pm

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Does not have to be as it is all about faith and what you believe yourself.

Actually I opened this thread to deal with stuff HF was saying on other threads - as he claims an Abrahamic faith the god I referred to was indeed the abrahamic one.


Quick, run bosy boots cant stop thinking she runs the forum again, I have been old off for posting about Queen's question  Shocked 

Dear me, I know understand that Sphinx, topics do sometimes diverge on similar topics

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:28 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:



Indeed and there is no attachment of laws, codes or morals, would not be easy to just dismiss out of hand unlike the fanciful contradicting ones from the main or written religions!

My desk could be God, if God doesn't do anything but hold up my computer. I don't see the point in worrying about any kind of God, whether depicted in religion or not, if it doesn't have any proven influence on your life.

http://web.med.harvard.edu/sites/RELEASES/html/3_31STEP.html

If the creator of the universe/a powerful diety/etc decided to transform into/possess as desk or whatever then yeah, you're desk could be God.

I don't see what's wrong with considering the possibility that a God or Gods could exist, I honestly don't see the problem.

Also in relation to your link why does God necessarily have to give a fuck about humanity or Earth?

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:31 pm

Queen Of Hearts wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

My desk could be God, if God doesn't do anything but hold up my computer. I don't see the point in worrying about any kind of God, whether depicted in religion or not, if it doesn't have any proven influence on your life.

http://web.med.harvard.edu/sites/RELEASES/html/3_31STEP.html

If the creator of the universe/a powerful diety/etc decided to transform into/possess as desk or whatever then yeah, you're desk could be God.

I don't see what's wrong with considering the possibility that a God or Gods could exist, I honestly don't see the problem.

Also in relation to your link why does God necessarily have to give a fuck about humanity or Earth?



Now the debate has just got very interesting and is far better than flogging a dead horse with HF on the bible as he will never agree.

Interesting point Queen, it would also make some sense if your view on a deity existed

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:43 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
sphinx wrote:

Actually I opened this thread to deal with stuff HF was saying on other threads - as he claims an Abrahamic faith the god I referred to was indeed the abrahamic one.


Quick, run bosy boots cant stop thinking she runs the forum again, I have been old off for posting about Queen's question  Shocked 

Dear me, I know understand that Sphinx, topics do sometimes diverge on similar topics

Sorry didge I thought I was answering a question. I will fuck off and leave shall I.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:46 pm

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Quick, run bosy boots cant stop thinking she runs the forum again, I have been old off for posting about Queen's question  Shocked 

Dear me, I know understand that Sphinx, topics do sometimes diverge on similar topics

Sorry didge I thought I was answering a question.  I will fuck off and leave shall I.



Dear me, why get so worked up over nothing?

You state the blatant obvious sometimes to me, hence the reason for the piss take reply.

Chill out!

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:47 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
sphinx wrote:

Sorry didge I thought I was answering a question.  I will fuck off and leave shall I.



Dear me, why get so worked up over nothing?

You state the blatant obvious sometimes to me, hence the reason for the piss take reply.

Chill out!

Oh right so now you can boss me about.

Great.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:49 pm

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:



Dear me, why get so worked up over nothing?

You state the blatant obvious sometimes to me, hence the reason for the piss take reply.

Chill out!

Oh right so now you can boss me about.

Great.


WTF, how is taking the piss and asking you to chill out bossing you around, never knew good advice was bossing people around

 :D

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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:53 pm

Queen Of Hearts wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:



Indeed and there is no attachment of laws, codes or morals, would not be easy to just dismiss out of hand unlike the fanciful contradicting ones from the main or written religions!

My desk could be God, if God doesn't do anything but hold up my computer. I don't see the point in worrying about any kind of God, whether depicted in religion or not, if it doesn't have any proven influence on your life.

http://web.med.harvard.edu/sites/RELEASES/html/3_31STEP.html

If the creator of the universe/a powerful diety/etc decided to transform into/possess as desk or whatever then yeah, you're desk could be God.

I don't see what's wrong with considering the possibility that a God or Gods could exist, I honestly don't see the problem.

Also in relation to your link why does God necessarily have to give a fuck about humanity or Earth?

It's often said that you can't disprove God (can't prove a negative) so I never say that it's impossible that god(s) exist, though I think it very improbable. But god(s) who don't worry about humanity needn't be worried about by humanity, either.

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Post by Eilzel on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:07 pm

Queen Of Hearts wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Does not have to be as it is all about faith and what you believe yourself.

Yep.
A God could be anything, a God could think anything, a God mightn't even think.
The possibilities in relation to the existence of a God or Gods are endless when you stop restricting yourself to how Gods are depicted in the various religions.

It is an interesting question 'What is God?' but surely one of the main things God has to be is 'creator' of life and the Universe. Otherwise you are moving close to distorting any true meaning of what it is to 'be a god' at all. That doesn't mean God has to be theistic like the God of the Koran, Bible and Torah; it could be a deist God; a pantheon of different gods; a simple shared consciousness- but if whatever 'God' is did not create or be responsible in some way for the universes existence, then 'it' isn't really 'a god' at all.
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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:14 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Queen Of Hearts wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Does not have to be as it is all about faith and what you believe yourself.

Yep.
A God could be anything, a God could think anything, a God mightn't even think.
The possibilities in relation to the existence of a God or Gods are endless when you stop restricting yourself to how Gods are depicted in the various religions.

It is an interesting question 'What is God?' but surely one of the main things God has to be is 'creator' of life and the Universe. Otherwise you are moving close to distorting any true meaning of what it is to 'be a god' at all. That doesn't mean God has to be theistic like the God of the Koran, Bible and Torah; it could be a deist God; a pantheon of different gods; a simple shared consciousness- but if whatever 'God' is did not create or be responsible in some way for the universes existence, then 'it' isn't really 'a god' at all.

Agreed. It seems like some people are so desperate for there to be a God that they're willing to make God about as influential as a pebble as long as he still gets to exist.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:15 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Queen Of Hearts wrote:

Yep.
A God could be anything, a God could think anything, a God mightn't even think.
The possibilities in relation to the existence of a God or Gods are endless when you stop restricting yourself to how Gods are depicted in the various religions.

It is an interesting question 'What is God?' but surely one of the main things God has to be is 'creator' of life and the Universe. Otherwise you are moving close to distorting any true meaning of what it is to 'be a god' at all. That doesn't mean God has to be theistic like the God of the Koran, Bible and Torah; it could be a deist God; a pantheon of different gods; a simple shared consciousness- but if whatever 'God' is did not create or be responsible in some way for the universes existence, then 'it' isn't really 'a god' at all.


Is that true the last point when we look at many of the ancient deities Eilzel? Take the Greek myths for example as Zeus was not the creator of the universe but became the leader of the Gods. I suppose how or what you you clarify as a Deity is more your point.

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Post by Eilzel on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:28 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

It is an interesting question 'What is God?' but surely one of the main things God has to be is 'creator' of life and the Universe. Otherwise you are moving close to distorting any true meaning of what it is to 'be a god' at all. That doesn't mean God has to be theistic like the God of the Koran, Bible and Torah; it could be a deist God; a pantheon of different gods; a simple shared consciousness- but if whatever 'God' is did not create or be responsible in some way for the universes existence, then 'it' isn't really 'a god' at all.




Is that true the last point when we look at many of the ancient deities Eilzel? Take the Greek myths for example as Zeus was not the creator of the universe but became the leader of the Gods. I suppose how or what you you clarify as a Deity is more your point.

Good point didge; though I am currently rereading Ovid and though Roman he takes alot from Greek myth, as was the way in ancient Rome; and his version of creation refers to a 'god that is nature', so that is one such idea. The Greek gods themselves were born of 'Chaos' which is really to say that everything existed before the gods themselves and they simply came and shaped things and of course, created mankind. It is more the deist point as you say, and of course no one today acknowledges the gods of ancient Greece and Rome as authentic.
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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:33 pm

Eilzel wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:




Is that true the last point when we look at many of the ancient deities Eilzel? Take the Greek myths for example as Zeus was not the creator of the universe but became the leader of the Gods. I suppose how or what you you clarify as a Deity is more your point.

Good point didge; though I am currently rereading Ovid and though Roman he takes alot from Greek myth, as was the way in ancient Rome; and his version of creation refers to a 'god that is nature', so that is one such idea. The Greek gods themselves were born of 'Chaos' which is really to say that everything existed before the gods themselves and they simply came and shaped things and of course, created mankind. It is more the deist point as you say, and of course no one today acknowledges the gods of ancient Greece and Rome as authentic.


Exactly Eilzel, creation myths can take different forms, the most interesting to me is the Sumerian deities, which have many similar stories to the Bible, showing how the Jews very much plagiarized these stories for the Torah them whilst in captivity in Babylon. In the creation myth of humans, we were what you might class as Homo erectus and then genetically engineered with Anunnaki Blood, the deities genes I guess to make a hybrid and even worse humans were created as slaves for these deities.


The chaos theory Greek myth is very interesting mind!

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:45 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Queen Of Hearts wrote:

If the creator of the universe/a powerful diety/etc decided to transform into/possess as desk or whatever then yeah, you're desk could be God.

I don't see what's wrong with considering the possibility that a God or Gods could exist, I honestly don't see the problem.

Also in relation to your link why does God necessarily have to give a fuck about humanity or Earth?

It's often said that you can't disprove God (can't prove a negative) so I never say that it's impossible that god(s) exist, though I think it very improbable. But god(s) who don't worry about humanity needn't be worried about by humanity, either.

Why not?
It's just something interesting to talk about, again, I don't see the problem.

Eilzel wrote:
Queen Of Hearts wrote:

Yep.
A God could be anything, a God could think anything, a God mightn't even think.
The possibilities in relation to the existence of a God or Gods are endless when you stop restricting yourself to how Gods are depicted in the various religions.

It is an interesting question 'What is God?' but surely one of the main things God has to be is 'creator' of life and the Universe. Otherwise you are moving close to distorting any true meaning of what it is to 'be a god' at all. That doesn't mean God has to be theistic like the God of the Koran, Bible and Torah; it could be a deist God; a pantheon of different gods; a simple shared consciousness- but if whatever 'God' is did not create or be responsible in some way for the universes existence, then 'it' isn't really 'a god' at all.

Not necessarily.
What a God is can vary between religions and cultures. Old mythologies generally have a much looser definition. Hinduism and Shinto with their Pantheons have wide varieties between the Gods too.
If you want to work on a specific definition then that's fine but I'm just speaking generally.

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

It is an interesting question 'What is God?' but surely one of the main things God has to be is 'creator' of life and the Universe. Otherwise you are moving close to distorting any true meaning of what it is to 'be a god' at all. That doesn't mean God has to be theistic like the God of the Koran, Bible and Torah; it could be a deist God; a pantheon of different gods; a simple shared consciousness- but if whatever 'God' is did not create or be responsible in some way for the universes existence, then 'it' isn't really 'a god' at all.

Agreed. It seems like some people are so desperate for there to be a God that they're willing to make God about as influential as a pebble as long as he still gets to exist.

Why does this discussion bother you so much?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:48 pm

Queen Of Hearts wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Queen Of Hearts wrote:

If the creator of the universe/a powerful diety/etc decided to transform into/possess as desk or whatever then yeah, you're desk could be God.

I don't see what's wrong with considering the possibility that a God or Gods could exist, I honestly don't see the problem.

Also in relation to your link why does God necessarily have to give a fuck about humanity or Earth?

It's often said that you can't disprove God (can't prove a negative) so I never say that it's impossible that god(s) exist, though I think it very improbable. But god(s) who don't worry about humanity needn't be worried about by humanity, either.

Why not?
It's just something interesting to talk about, again, I don't see the problem.

Eilzel wrote:
Queen Of Hearts wrote:

Yep.
A God could be anything, a God could think anything, a God mightn't even think.
The possibilities in relation to the existence of a God or Gods are endless when you stop restricting yourself to how Gods are depicted in the various religions.

It is an interesting question 'What is God?' but surely one of the main things God has to be is 'creator' of life and the Universe. Otherwise you are moving close to distorting any true meaning of what it is to 'be a god' at all. That doesn't mean God has to be theistic like the God of the Koran, Bible and Torah; it could be a deist God; a pantheon of different gods; a simple shared consciousness- but if whatever 'God' is did not create or be responsible in some way for the universes existence, then 'it' isn't really 'a god' at all.

Not necessarily.
What a God is can vary between religions and cultures. Old mythologies generally have a much looser definition. Hinduism and Shinto with their Pantheons have wide varieties between the Gods too.
If you want to work on a specific definition then that's fine but I'm just speaking generally.

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

It is an interesting question 'What is God?' but surely one of the main things God has to be is 'creator' of life and the Universe. Otherwise you are moving close to distorting any true meaning of what it is to 'be a god' at all. That doesn't mean God has to be theistic like the God of the Koran, Bible and Torah; it could be a deist God; a pantheon of different gods; a simple shared consciousness- but if whatever 'God' is did not create or be responsible in some way for the universes existence, then 'it' isn't really 'a god' at all.

Agreed. It seems like some people are so desperate for there to be a God that they're willing to make God about as influential as a pebble as long as he still gets to exist.

Why does this discussion bother you so much?

Doesn't bother me, just seems like a waste of time. I don't spend a lot of time debating who would win if Spider-Man and Batman got into a fight either (even though it would obviously be Spider-Man).

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:50 pm

Queen Of Hearts wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

My desk could be God, if God doesn't do anything but hold up my computer. I don't see the point in worrying about any kind of God, whether depicted in religion or not, if it doesn't have any proven influence on your life.

http://web.med.harvard.edu/sites/RELEASES/html/3_31STEP.html

If the creator of the universe/a powerful diety/etc decided to transform into/possess as desk or whatever then yeah, you're desk could be God.

I don't see what's wrong with considering the possibility that a God or Gods could exist, I honestly don't see the problem.

Also in relation to your link why does God necessarily have to give a fuck about humanity or Earth?

And indeed, why do we need to give a fook about god? Just let 'em go about his business, and we ours.

If god is all powerful why does he allow sin? - Page 3 Clouds

I have never met this cross-dressing bearded guy, who is said to walk on clouds and perform magic tricks for the kids. I would think that it is not a matter of disproving, but proving.

I mean, I've never seen a flying saucer either...but seems to me it is more plausible, given that we do have machines that fly and we can actually understand aerodynamics.

I think it’s a bit of a stretch…a barefooted guy walking on a cloud.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:56 pm

Great Ben and Quill you both don't care, I am interested in theology even as an atheist, so allow others to debate this

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:12 pm

PhilDidge wrote:Great Ben and Quill you both don't care, I am interested in theology even as an atheist, so allow others to debate this

Didge, you don't understand.  As a political theorist I do take a great interest in books of theology.  And I have read the bible—had to in Sheldon Wolin’s History of Political Theory class at Berkeley.

So while I don’t believe in barefooted guys walking on clouds, I do believe in Christian Charity.  I believe that Jesus was real, and I believe he founded an ideology—as did Aristotle, Locke and Marx.  That ideology provides a prism through which we may interpret ethical, social behavior.  That's great enough for me.

I think the old man in the clouds bit was just the way you got attention back in those days. But the ideology is sound.


Last edited by Original Quill on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:Great Ben and Quill you both don't care, I am interested in theology even as an atheist, so allow others to debate this

Didge, you don't understand.  As a political theorist I do take a great interest in books of theology.  And I have read the bible—had to in Sheldon Wolin’s History of Political Theory class at Berkeley.

And while I don’t believe in barefooted guys walking on clouds, I do believe in Christian Charity.  I believe that Jesus was real, and I believe he founded an ideology—as did Aristotle, Locke or Marx.  That ideology provides a prism through which we may interpret ethical, social behavior.  That's great enough for me.


Great Quill, how about others though, I do not discount the same things as you and agree with your views on social behaviour, but these debates can be interesting especially when what is being proposed by Queen is non-religious, it brings new dimensions to a debate

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:17 pm

You know, there is nothing wrong with having faith, but some people talk as if 'God' is here posting on this forum ffs.

 Laughing 

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:21 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Didge, you don't understand.  As a political theorist I do take a great interest in books of theology.  And I have read the bible—had to in Sheldon Wolin’s History of Political Theory class at Berkeley.

And while I don’t believe in barefooted guys walking on clouds, I do believe in Christian Charity.  I believe that Jesus was real, and I believe he founded an ideology—as did Aristotle, Locke or Marx.  That ideology provides a prism through which we may interpret ethical, social behavior.  That's great enough for me.


Great Quill, how about others though, I do not discount the same things as you and agree with your views on social behaviour, but these debates can be interesting especially when what is being proposed by Queen is non-religious, it brings new dimensions to a debate

Didge, you act as if someone were denying you something. You can have your views, and present your proof or reasons. Mine is just a countervailing view.

It can be a discussion.

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:24 pm

Original Quill wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Great Quill, how about others though, I do not discount the same things as you and agree with your views on social behaviour, but these debates can be interesting especially when what is being proposed by Queen is non-religious, it brings new dimensions to a debate

Didge, you act as if someone were denying you something.  You can have your views, and present your proof or reasons.  Mine is just a countervailing view.

It can be a discussion.


Not saying you are denying me anything, why would I.
This is a debate and you are entitled to your view, I just think others might want to go further into this.
You are not the only one that has studied not only the Bible but many other religious works

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:33 pm

Why the Christian God is Impossible
by Chad Docterman



Introduction



   Christians consider the existence of their God to be an obvious truth that no sane man could deny. I strongly disagree with this assumption not only because evidence for the existence of this presumably ubiquitous yet invisible God is lacking, but because the very nature Christians attribute to this God is self-contradictory.




Proving a Universal Negative



   It is taken for granted by Christians, as well as many atheists, that a universal negative cannot be proven. In this case, that universal negative is the statement that the Christian God does not exist. One would have to have omniscience, they say, in order to prove that anything does not exist. I disagree with this position, however, because omniscience is not needed in order to prove that a thing whose nature is a self-contradiction cannot, and therefore does not exist.



   I do not need a complete knowledge of the universe to prove to you that cubic spheres do not exist. Such objects have mutually-exclusive attributes which would render their existence impossible. For example, a cube, by definition, has 8 corners, while a sphere has none. These properties are completely incompatible: they cannot be held simultaneously by the same object. It is my intent to show that the supposed properties of the Christian God Yahweh, like those of a cubic sphere, are incompatible, and by so doing, to show Yahweh's existence to be an impossibility.




Defining YHWH



   Before we can discuss the existence of a thing, we must define it. Christians have endowed their God with all of the following attributes: He is eternal, all-powerful, and created everything. He created all the laws of nature and can change anything by an act of will. He is all-good, all-loving, and perfectly just. He is a personal God who experiences all of the emotions a human does. He is all-knowing. He sees everything past and future.

God's creation was originally perfect, but humans, by disobeying him, brought imperfection into the world. Humans are evil and sinful, and must suffer in this world because of their sinfulness. God gives humans the opportunity to accept forgiveness for their sin, and all who do will be rewarded with eternal bliss in heaven, but while they are on earth, they must suffer for his sake. All humans who choose not to accept this forgiveness must go to hell and be tormented for eternity.



   One Bible verse which Christians are fond of quoting says that atheists are fools. I intend to show that the above concepts of God are completely incompatible and so reveal the impossibility of all of them being true. Who is the fool? The fool is the one who believes impossible things and calls them divine mysteries.




Perfection Seeks Even More Perfection



   What did God do during that eternity before he created everything? If God was all that existed back then, what disturbed the eternal equilibrium and compelled him to create? Was he bored? Was he lonely? God is supposed to be perfect. If something is perfect, it is complete--it needs nothing else. We humans engage in activities because we are pursuing that elusive perfection, because there is disequilibrium caused by a difference between what we are and what we want to be. If God is perfect, there can be no disequilibrium. There is nothing he needs, nothing he desires, and nothing he must or will do. A God who is perfect does nothing except exist. A perfect creator God is impossible.




Perfection Begets Imperfection



   But, for the sake of argument, let's continue. Let us suppose that this perfect God did create the universe. Humans were the crown of his creation, since they were created in God's image and have the ability to make decisions. However, these humans spoiled the original perfection by choosing to disobey God.



   What!? If something is perfect, nothing imperfect can come from it. Someone once said that bad fruit cannot come from a good tree, and yet this "perfect" God created a "perfect" universe which was rendered imperfect by the "perfect" humans. The ultimate source of imperfection is God. What is perfect cannot become imperfect, so humans must have been created imperfect. What is perfect cannot create anything imperfect, so God must be imperfect to have created these imperfect humans. A perfect God who creates imperfect humans is impossible.




The Freewill Argument



   The Christians' objection to this argument involves freewill. They say that a being must have freewill to be happy. The omnibenevolent God did not wish to create robots, so he gave humans freewill to enable them to experience love and happiness. But the humans used this freewill to choose evil, and introduced imperfection into God's originally perfect universe. God had no control over this decision, so the blame for our imperfect universe is on the humans, not God.



   Here is why the argument is weak. First, if God is omnipotent, then the assumption that freewill is necessary for happiness is false. If God could make it a rule that only beings with freewill may experience happiness, then he could just as easily have made it a rule that only robots may experience happiness. The latter option is clearly superior, since perfect robots will never make decisions which could render them or their creator unhappy, whereas beings with freewill could. A perfect and omnipotent God who creates beings capable of ruining their own happiness is impossible.



   Second, even if we were to allow the necessity of freewill for happiness, God could have created humans with freewill who did not have the ability to choose evil, but to choose between several good options.

Third, God supposedly has freewill, and yet he does not make imperfect decisions. If humans are miniature images of God, our decisions should likewise be perfect. Also, the occupants of heaven, who presumably must have freewill to be happy, will never use that freewill to make imperfect decisions. Why would the originally perfect humans do differently?



   The point remains: the presence of imperfections in the universe disproves the supposed perfection of its creator.




All-good God Knowingly Creates Future Suffering



   God is omniscient. When he created the universe, he saw the sufferings which humans would endure as a result of the sin of those original humans. He heard the screams of the damned. Surely he would have known that it would have been better for those humans to never have been born (in fact, the Bible says this very thing), and surely this all-compassionate deity would have foregone the creation of a universe destined to imperfection in which many of the humans were doomed to eternal suffering. A perfectly compassionate being who creates beings which he knows are doomed to suffer is impossible.




Infinite Punishment for Finite Sins



   God is perfectly just, and yet he sentences the imperfect humans he created to infinite suffering in hell for finite sins. Clearly, a limited offense does not warrant unlimited punishment. God's sentencing of the imperfect humans to an eternity in hell for a mere mortal lifetime of sin is infinitely more unjust than this punishment. The absurd injustice of this infinite punishment is even greater when we consider that the ultimate source of human imperfection is the God who created them. A perfectly just God who sentences his imperfect creation to infinite punishment for finite sins is impossible.




Belief More Important Than Action



   Consider all of the people who live in the remote regions of the world who have never even heard the "gospel" of Jesus Christ. Consider the people who have naturally adhered to the religion of their parents and nation as they had been taught to do since birth. If we are to believe the Christians, all of these people will perish in the eternal fire for not believing in Jesus. It does not matter how just, kind, and generous they have been with their fellow humans during their lifetime: if they do not accept the gospel of Jesus, they are condemned. No just God would ever judge a man by his beliefs rather than his actions.




Perfection's Imperfect Revelation



   The Bible is supposedly God's perfect Word. It contains instructions to humankind for avoiding the eternal fires of hell. How wonderful and kind of this God to provide us with this means of overcoming the problems for which he is ultimately responsible! The all-powerful God could have, by a mere act of will, eliminated all of the problems we humans must endure, but instead, in his infinite wisdom, he has opted to offer this indecipherable amalgam of books which is the Bible as a means for avoiding the hell which he has prepared for us. The perfect God has decided to reveal his wishes in this imperfect work, written in the imperfect language of imperfect man, translated, copied, interpreted, voted on, and related by imperfect man.



   No two men will ever agree what this perfect word of God is supposed to mean, since much of it is either self- contradictory, or obscured by enigmatic symbols. And yet the perfect God expects us imperfect humans to understand this paradoxical riddle using the imperfect minds with which he has equipped us. Surely the all-wise and all-powerful God would have known that it would have been better to reveal his perfect will directly to each of us, rather than to allow it to be debased and perverted by the imperfect language and botched interpretations of man.




Contradictory Justice



   One need look to no source other than the Bible to discover its imperfections, for it contradicts itself and thus exposes its own imperfection. It contradicts itself on matters of justice, for the same just God who assures his people that sons shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers turns around and destroys an entire household for the sin of one man (he had stolen some of Yahweh's war loot). It was this same Yahweh who afflicted thousands of his innocent people with plague and death to punish their evil king David for taking a census (?!). It was this same Yahweh who allowed the humans to slaughter his son because the perfect Yahweh had botched his own creation. Consider how many have been stoned, burned, slaughtered, raped, and enslaved because of Yahweh's skewed sense of justice. The blood of innocent babies is on the perfect, just, compassionate hands of Yahweh.




Contradictory History



   The Bible contradicts itself on matters of history. A person who reads and compares the contents of the Bible will be confused about exactly who Esau's wives were, whether Timnah was a concubine or a son, and whether Jesus' earthly lineage is through Solomon or his brother Nathan. These are but a few of hundreds of documented historical contradictions. If the Bible cannot confirm itself in mundane earthly matters, how are we to trust it on moral and spiritual matters?




Unfulfilled Prophecy



   The Bible misinterprets its own prophecies. Read Isaiah 7 and compare it to Matthew 1 to find but one of many misinterpreted prophecies of which Christians are either passively or willfully ignorant. The fulfillment of prophecy in the Bible is cited as proof of its divine inspiration, and yet here is but one major example of a prophecy whose intended meaning has been and continues to be twisted to support subsequent absurd and false doctrines. There are no ends to which the credulous will not go to support their feeble beliefs in the face of compelling evidence against them.



   The Bible is imperfect. It only takes one imperfection to destroy the supposed perfection of this alleged Word of God. Many have been found. A perfect God who reveals his perfect will in an imperfect book is impossible.




The Omniscient Changes the Future



   A God who knows the future is powerless to change it. An omniscient God who is all-powerful and freewilled is impossible.




The Omniscient is Surprised



   A God who knows everything cannot have emotions. The Bible says that God experiences all of the emotions of humans, including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained knowledge to which he may emotively react.



   We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who experiences emotion is impossible.




The Conclusion of the matter



   I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non- existence, of the Christian God Yahweh. No reasonable and freethinking individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is so contradictory as that of Yahweh, the "perfect" creator of our imperfect universe. The existence of Yahweh is as impossible as the existence of cubic spheres or invisible pink unicorns.



   Should any Christian who reads this persist in defending these impossibilities through means of "divine transcendence" and "faith," and should any Christian continue to call me an atheist fool, I will be forced to invoke the wrath of the Invisible Pink Unicorn:



"You are a fool for denying the existence of the IPU. You have rejected true faith and have relied on your feeble powers of human reason and thus arrogantly denied the existence of Her Divine Transcendence, and so are you condemned."



   If such arguments are good enough for Yahweh, they are good enough for Her Invisible Pinkness.

As for me and my house, we shall choose reality.


me to

ps sorry its so long

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:35 pm

What a waste of time arguing about someone we have never heard or seen  Laughing 

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:36 pm

Original Quill wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:Great Ben and Quill you both don't care, I am interested in theology even as an atheist, so allow others to debate this

Didge, you don't understand.  As a political theorist I do take a great interest in books of theology.  And I have read the bible—had to in Sheldon Wolin’s History of Political Theory class at Berkeley.

So while I don’t believe in barefooted guys walking on clouds, I do believe in Christian Charity.  I believe that Jesus was real, and I believe he founded an ideology—as did Aristotle, Locke and Marx.  That ideology provides a prism through which we may interpret ethical, social behavior.  That's great enough for me.

I think the old man in the clouds bit was just the way you got attention back in those days.  But the ideology is sound.
As a man or the son of god Q

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:41 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Didge, you act as if someone were denying you something.  You can have your views, and present your proof or reasons.  Mine is just a countervailing view.

It can be a discussion.


Not saying you are denying me anything, why would I.
This is a debate and you are entitled to your view, I just think others might want to go further into this.
You are not the only one that has studied not only the Bible but many other religious works

So do I, Didge. And I'm not trying to brag about my studies; most people who deny the metaphysics of the bible are dismissed as not having read it. I'm merely saying that assumption is not appropriate in my case.

But there are several questions to be explored. For example, take the element of spirituality. Is consciousness merely a huge collection of memory cells. Or is there a consciousness independent of material existence? I may dismiss the old man walking on clouds (it is merely a single instance or frame of the issue), but at some level I believe there is room for debate on spirituality.

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:44 pm

Korben Dallas wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Didge, you don't understand.  As a political theorist I do take a great interest in books of theology.  And I have read the bible—had to in Sheldon Wolin’s History of Political Theory class at Berkeley.

So while I don’t believe in barefooted guys walking on clouds, I do believe in Christian Charity.  I believe that Jesus was real, and I believe he founded an ideology—as did Aristotle, Locke and Marx.  That ideology provides a prism through which we may interpret ethical, social behavior.  That's great enough for me.

I think the old man in the clouds bit was just the way you got attention back in those days.  But the ideology is sound.
As a man  or the son of god Q

No, I do not believe in the Trinity.  That's the metaphysical part. I do believe that Jesus was a real person, whose words and actions were recorded...although there's a real question about the authenticity of the Roman account, as represented in the bible.

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:57 pm

Redemption, however, is an integral part of the theory of Christian Charity.  Ii is only that they expressed things more visually than we do today.

Essentially--and simplistically--the theory says that there is an ethical way of behaving, and some other way.  In modern terminology, the ethical way is described as humanism.

So the depiction of redemption is a theory of transformation, allowing man to choose a universal ethic...Jesus' theory. And it is significant that Jesus is thought of as a teacher, not a lecturer or a writer of books. His deeds--his story, as it were--is his thesis. It is the story of humanism.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:56 pm

I think it can be interesting to discuss and debate what the religions man has invented say about our values, but it just seem the whole "maybe God isn't really what religion says" argument has been done, beaten to death. It's the same thing Moses, Peter, Muhammed, L. Ron Hubbard, and thousands of others thought ...

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Post by veya_victaous on Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:35 am

Gods Don’t have to be creators
the Aboriginals have 'gods' that have no greater purpose than to be turned into a rock formation. Some of the Aboriginals 'gods' particularly the hominid ones are on the losing end of conflicts between 'gods'.


@quill
Sorry the Idea of a single Monotheist deity is a bit silly, NOTHING in the entire universe (with evidence now suggesting that includes the universe itself) exists in singularity, there is multiple of everything. Why would the only thing that exists in singularity be something hat 1 species on a relatively small rock floating in space conceives of and cannot even agree on, only half even think it at all and the half that do think this 1 magical being exists kill each other they disagree about the specifics so much.

the idea of an all-powerful creator is also silly, we can see the conflict and change just by looking at rocks.
You come from the US doesn't the Grand Canyon inspire the notion that it has been around longer than the monotheist claim the world existed. The Olgas (inverse Grand Canyon) definitely inspire that. The Forests with trees older than the Pyramids how can one view the world and say it was all made so recently.


And Christian Charity is SO laughable. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
DO you know what happens if you're caught doing graffiti on the local Sikh temple? (it looks similar to a mosque so where having issues after 9/11)
They take you in a Feed you curries and other yummy food.....

You can rock up anytime and they will feed you, no donations nothing. no questions asked they feed you While you argue with them about theology. They don’t make any effort to convert you.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:38 am

veya_victaous wrote:And Christian Charity is SO laughable.  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing
DO you know what happens if you're caught doing graffiti on the local Sikh temple? (it looks similar to a mosque so where having issues after 9/11)
They take you in a Feed you curries and other yummy food.....

You can rock up anytime and they will feed you, no donations nothing. no questions asked they feed you While you argue with them about theology. They don’t make any effort to convert you.

I saw one the other day raising money to send Bibles to flood victims in the Phillipines.

 ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: 

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:52 pm

Original Quill wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Not saying you are denying me anything, why would I.
This is a debate and you are entitled to your view, I just think others might want to go further into this.
You are not the only one that has studied not only the Bible but many other religious works

So do I, Didge.  And I'm not trying to brag about my studies; most people who deny the metaphysics of the bible are dismissed as not having read it.  I'm merely saying that assumption is not appropriate in my case.

But there are several questions to be explored.  For example, take the element of spirituality.  Is consciousness merely a huge collection of memory cells.  Or is there a consciousness independent of material existence?  I may dismiss the old man walking on clouds (it is merely a single instance or frame of the issue), but at some level I believe there is room for debate on spirituality.

Interesting view points, as if seen as what he should be just a man, his views for the time and within his own faith were far reaching and well ahead of their time.

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:05 pm

What I do not like is folk trying to ram religion down the throats of others, like those God folk who come knocking doors bothering busy people, while I would never be rude to them, they don't seem to take the hint, even with my toddler running around my feet!


I really should say to them....would you like me to come around to your house and shove something in your face your not interested in or don't believe in!!

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Korben Dallas wrote:
As a man  or the son of god Q

No, I do not believe in the Trinity.  That's the metaphysical part.  I do believe that Jesus was a real person, whose words and actions were recorded...although there's a real question about the authenticity of the Roman account, as represented in the bible.

May ia sk what denomination you follow quill??

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:52 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:And Christian Charity is SO laughable.  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing
DO you know what happens if you're caught doing graffiti on the local Sikh temple? (it looks similar to a mosque so where having issues after 9/11)
They take you in a Feed you curries and other yummy food.....

You can rock up anytime and they will feed you, no donations nothing. no questions asked they feed you While you argue with them about theology. They don’t make any effort to convert you.

I saw one the other day raising money to send Bibles to flood victims in the Phillipines.

 ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: 

you really are incapable of thinking beyond your emotional hysteria aren't you

the Philippines is 90% christian

a christian charity is unlikely to raise any relief funds that could rival that of the US and UK, yes they may be able to send out 100 blankets or a dozen tents, but what is that number compared to the quantity that will be sent by the US??

nothing at all

you don't seem to understand the powerful influence religion and faith can have on a person nor the comfort it can bring them when they have lost all hope.

to devout Christians in such a hopeless situation, a resupply of bibles can boost their morale and revive them in ways a blanket and tent cannot, and could quiet easily become a beacon of hope for lot of refugees

you would probably send them an article on climate change and the scientific mumbo jumbo behind it




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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:12 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

I saw one the other day raising money to send Bibles to flood victims in the Phillipines.

 ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: 

you really are incapable of thinking beyond your emotional hysteria aren't you

the Philippines is 90% christian

a christian charity is unlikely to raise any relief funds that could rival that of the US and UK, yes they may be able to send out 100 blankets or a dozen tents, but what is that number compared to the  quantity that will be sent by the US??

nothing at all

you don't seem to understand the powerful influence religion and faith can have on a person nor the comfort it can bring them when they have lost all hope.

to devout Christians in such a hopeless situation, a resupply of bibles can boost their morale and revive them in ways a blanket and tent cannot, and could quiet easily become a beacon of hope for lot of refugees  

you would probably send them an article on climate change and the scientific mumbo jumbo behind it    






...I would sooner have the tent and blanket to protect me from the elements than a bible ffs.

Maybe if I burn the bible Ill get a wee tiny heat to the hands for a moment.  Rolling Eyes 

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:28 pm

veya_victaous wrote:Gods Don’t have to be creators
the Aboriginals have 'gods' that have no greater purpose than to be turned into a rock formation. Some of the Aboriginals 'gods' particularly the hominid ones are on the losing end of conflicts between 'gods'.

@quill
Sorry the Idea of a single Monotheist deity is a bit silly, NOTHING in the entire universe (with evidence now suggesting that includes the universe itself) exists in singularity, there is multiple of everything.  Why would the only thing that exists in singularity be something hat 1 species on a relatively small rock floating in space conceives of  and cannot even agree on, only half even think it at all and the half that do  think this 1 magical being exists kill each other they disagree about the specifics so much.

the idea of an all-powerful creator is also silly, we can see the conflict and change just by looking at rocks.
You come from the US doesn't the Grand Canyon inspire the notion that it has been around longer than the monotheist claim the world existed. The Olgas (inverse Grand Canyon) definitely inspire that. The Forests with trees older than the Pyramids how can one view the world and say it was all made so recently.

Using the Jew/Christian/Islamic depiction of God as an argument that a single God couldn't exist is also silly.
The idea that a God could be responsible for the big bang and be the one behind the physical laws of the universe isn't incompatible with scientific fact at all.
Life and evolution itself could be the result of the scientific laws that a God defined.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:34 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:And Christian Charity is SO laughable.  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing
DO you know what happens if you're caught doing graffiti on the local Sikh temple? (it looks similar to a mosque so where having issues after 9/11)
They take you in a Feed you curries and other yummy food.....

You can rock up anytime and they will feed you, no donations nothing. no questions asked they feed you While you argue with them about theology. They don’t make any effort to convert you.

I saw one the other day raising money to send Bibles to flood victims in the Phillipines.

 ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: 

you really are incapable of thinking beyond your emotional hysteria aren't you

the Philippines is 90% christian

a christian charity is unlikely to raise any relief funds that could rival that of the US and UK, yes they may be able to send out 100 blankets or a dozen tents, but what is that number compared to the  quantity that will be sent by the US??

nothing at all

you don't seem to understand the powerful influence religion and faith can have on a person nor the comfort it can bring them when they have lost all hope.

to devout Christians in such a hopeless situation, a resupply of bibles can boost their morale and revive them in ways a blanket and tent cannot, and could quiet easily become a beacon of hope for lot of refugees  

you would probably send them an article on climate change and the scientific mumbo jumbo behind it    




I'd send them temporary shelters and meal rations, moron. You can't eat a Bible, and it probably wouldn't make very good toilet paper, either.

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:43 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
@quill
Sorry the Idea of a single Monotheist deity is a bit silly, NOTHING in the entire universe (with evidence now suggesting that includes the universe itself) exists in singularity, there is multiple of everything. Why would the only thing that exists in singularity be something hat 1 species on a relatively small rock floating in space conceives of and cannot even agree on, only half even think it at all and the half that do think this 1 magical being exists kill each other they disagree about the specifics so much.

the idea of an all-powerful creator is also silly, we can see the conflict and change just by looking at rocks.
You come from the US doesn't the Grand Canyon inspire the notion that it has been around longer than the monotheist claim the world existed. The Olgas (inverse Grand Canyon) definitely inspire that. The Forests with trees older than the Pyramids how can one view the world and say it was all made so recently.


And Christian Charity is SO laughable. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
DO you know what happens if you're caught doing graffiti on the local Sikh temple? (it looks similar to a mosque so where having issues after 9/11)
They take you in a Feed you curries and other yummy food.....

You can rock up anytime and they will feed you, no donations nothing. no questions asked they feed you While you argue with them about theology. They don’t make any effort to convert you.

I certainly agree that to allege a god exists is to manifest a need. It doesn't say anything about what actually is. I have never shaken hands with god, and I know my feet would go right through those clouds.

Your comment about christian charity is misplaced. It is a normative theory, not a description of the way things actually work. If christian charity were actually in place, there would be no Republicans, Conservatives, nor kidnapping, torture, rape or murder such as former VP Cheney advocates.

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
@quill
Sorry the Idea of a single Monotheist deity is a bit silly, NOTHING in the entire universe (with evidence now suggesting that includes the universe itself) exists in singularity, there is multiple of everything.  Why would the only thing that exists in singularity be something hat 1 species on a relatively small rock floating in space conceives of  and cannot even agree on, only half even think it at all and the half that do  think this 1 magical being exists kill each other they disagree about the specifics so much.

the idea of an all-powerful creator is also silly, we can see the conflict and change just by looking at rocks.
You come from the US doesn't the Grand Canyon inspire the notion that it has been around longer than the monotheist claim the world existed. The Olgas (inverse Grand Canyon) definitely inspire that. The Forests with trees older than the Pyramids how can one view the world and say it was all made so recently.


And Christian Charity is SO laughable.  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing
DO you know what happens if you're caught doing graffiti on the local Sikh temple? (it looks similar to a mosque so where having issues after 9/11)
They take you in a Feed you curries and other yummy food.....

You can rock up anytime and they will feed you, no donations nothing. no questions asked they feed you While you argue with them about theology. They don’t make any effort to convert you.

I certainly agree that to allege a god exists is to manifest a need.  It doesn't say anything about what actually is.  I have never shaken hands with god, and I know my feet would go right through those clouds.

Your comment about christian charity is misplaced.  It is a normative theory, not a description of the way things actually work.  If christian charity were actually in place, there would be no Republicans, Conservatives, nor kidnapping, torture, rape or murder such as former VP Cheney advocates.

Quill may i ask to waht denomination of Christainity you belong to.

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:40 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

you really are incapable of thinking beyond your emotional hysteria aren't you

the Philippines is 90% christian

a christian charity is unlikely to raise any relief funds that could rival that of the US and UK, yes they may be able to send out 100 blankets or a dozen tents, but what is that number compared to the  quantity that will be sent by the US??

nothing at all

you don't seem to understand the powerful influence religion and faith can have on a person nor the comfort it can bring them when they have lost all hope.

to devout Christians in such a hopeless situation, a resupply of bibles can boost their morale and revive them in ways a blanket and tent cannot, and could quiet easily become a beacon of hope for lot of refugees  

you would probably send them an article on climate change and the scientific mumbo jumbo behind it    




I'd send them temporary shelters and meal rations, moron. You can't eat a Bible, and it probably wouldn't make very good toilet paper, either.


Some logic!! Exactly Ben, what good is a fucking bible when someone is freezing and
Starving?, what good will hope do them there and then?

Religion can be good for some, but nothing but trouble for others sadly.

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Post by SEXY MAMA on Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:47 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

I saw one the other day raising money to send Bibles to flood victims in the Phillipines.

 ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: 

you really are incapable of thinking beyond your emotional hysteria aren't you

the Philippines is 90% christian

a christian charity is unlikely to raise any relief funds that could rival that of the US and UK, yes they may be able to send out 100 blankets or a dozen tents, but what is that number compared to the  quantity that will be sent by the US??

nothing at all

you don't seem to understand the powerful influence religion and faith can have on a person nor the comfort it can bring them when they have lost all hope.

to devout Christians in such a hopeless situation, a resupply of bibles can boost their morale and revive them in ways a blanket and tent cannot, and could quiet easily become a beacon of hope for lot of refugees  

you would probably send them an article on climate change and the scientific mumbo jumbo behind it    





Seriously you have lost the bloody plot!

You send flood victims food and shelter! What use is a bible when they are starving and in need of a house!

Jesus wept!

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:15 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

I saw one the other day raising money to send Bibles to flood victims in the Phillipines.

 ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: ::hdintowll:: 

you really are incapable of thinking beyond your emotional hysteria aren't you

the Philippines is 90% christian

a christian charity is unlikely to raise any relief funds that could rival that of the US and UK, yes they may be able to send out 100 blankets or a dozen tents, but what is that number compared to the  quantity that will be sent by the US??

nothing at all

you don't seem to understand the powerful influence religion and faith can have on a person nor the comfort it can bring them when they have lost all hope.

to devout Christians in such a hopeless situation, a resupply of bibles can boost their morale and revive them in ways a blanket and tent cannot, and could quiet easily become a beacon of hope for lot of refugees  

you would probably send them an article on climate change and the scientific mumbo jumbo behind it    





Seriously you have lost the bloody plot!

You send flood victims food and shelter! What use is a bible when they are starving and in need of a house!

Jesus wept!

If I was a flood victim and some group sent me a book -- ANY book -- I would not think kindly of them. :D

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:53 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

you really are incapable of thinking beyond your emotional hysteria aren't you

the Philippines is 90% christian

a christian charity is unlikely to raise any relief funds that could rival that of the US and UK, yes they may be able to send out 100 blankets or a dozen tents, but what is that number compared to the  quantity that will be sent by the US??

nothing at all

you don't seem to understand the powerful influence religion and faith can have on a person nor the comfort it can bring them when they have lost all hope.

to devout Christians in such a hopeless situation, a resupply of bibles can boost their morale and revive them in ways a blanket and tent cannot, and could quiet easily become a beacon of hope for lot of refugees  

you would probably send them an article on climate change and the scientific mumbo jumbo behind it    





Seriously you have lost the bloody plot!

You send flood victims food and shelter! What use is a bible when they are starving and in need of a house!

Jesus wept!

If you were a flood victim and you already had food and shelter provided by another agency would you get pissed off that a local uk mosque had sent you a qur'an to replace your lost one??

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:58 pm

If god existed he would have made sure Smelly's mum never had sex with Smelly's dad and done us all a favour.

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