The Bible Is Inaccurate And Camels Prove It, Archaeologists Claim

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Post by Guest on Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

Archaeologists have cast doubt on the accuracy of the Bible after uncovering new evidence about camels.

Carbon dating suggests the animals were not domesticated in Israel until the 9th century BC - hundreds of years after they were depicted in the Old Testament.

Camels feature in biblical stories involving Abraham and Joseph.

The research was carried out by Erez Ben-Yosef and Lidar Sapir-Hen of Israel's Tel-Aviv University.

A statement from the university, reported in the Times of Israel, said the discrepancy “is direct proof that the [Biblical] text was compiled well after the events it describes”.

The archeologists found camel bones in layers that dated from the last third of the 10th century BC or later, long after they feature in the Bible.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/02/05/the-bible-camels_n_4730151.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:23 pm

As I say, I correct stupidity

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:25 pm

PhilDidge wrote:As I say, I correct stupidity

in that case give yourself a good talking too... :/pwn://: 

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:27 pm

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:As I say, I correct stupidity

in that case give yourself a good talking too... :/pwn://: 


I have no need as yet you make claims and cannot back them up, I again merely correct your ignorance on a subject

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:32 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

in that case give yourself a good talking too... :/pwn://: 


I have no need as yet you make claims and cannot back them up, I again merely correct your ignorance on a subject

you proved it seconds ago on a different thread, your only defence of islam is well others do it and yet while constantly defending islam you claim to be an atheist...

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:34 pm

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


I have no need as yet you make claims and cannot back them up, I again merely correct your ignorance on a subject

you proved it seconds ago on  a different thread, your only defence of islam is well others do it and yet while constantly defending islam you claim to be an atheist...

I am not defending Islam, I am showing you what it teaches, as stated the Quran instructs to kill if attacked, so it has violence, never denied this, you though think it instructs to kill non-believers for no reason, it doesn't!

Hence your ignorance on the subject

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:43 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

you proved it seconds ago on  a different thread, your only defence of islam is well others do it and yet while constantly defending islam you claim to be an atheist...

I am not defending Islam, I am showing you what it teaches, as stated the Quran instructs to kill if attacked, so it has violence, never denied this, you though think it instructs to kill non-believers for no reason, it doesn't!

Hence your ignorance on the subject

so you are saying the koran says kill those who attack you?

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:45 pm

ur'an:8:39 "So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam."

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:12 pm

heavenly father wrote:ur'an:8:39 "So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam."

Odd, this is what it says:

And fight with them until there is no more persecution (fitnah) and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do [Quran 8:39]

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:14 pm

It may help if you read more:


[8.38] Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients has already passed.

[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

[8.40] And if they turn back, then know that Allah is your Patron; most excellent is the Patron and most excellent the Helper.

[8.41] And know that whatever thing you gain, a fifth of it is for Allah and for the Apostle and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, if you believe in Allah and in that which We revealed to Our servant, on the day of distinction, the day on which the two parties met; and Allah has power over all things.

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:24 pm

wow an atheist who quotes the koran, that's very interesting.. :D 

here's more misunderstanding..

Qur'an:8:59 "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."
Qur'an:8:60 "And make ready against the infidels all of the power you can, including steeds of war [the Noble Qur'an says these are: tanks, planes, missiles, and artillery] to threaten the enemy of Allah and your enemy. And whatever you spend in Allah's Cause shall be repaid unto you." [Another translation reads:] "Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you. Whatever you spend in Allah's Cause will be repaid in full, and no wrong will be done to you."

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:25 pm

this is nice..

Qur'an:9:5 "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:28 pm

heavenly father wrote:this is nice..

Qur'an:9:5 "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."


So I have proved you have no knowledge of Islam and you try more mistakes

(9:5) And so, when the sacred months are over, slay those who ascribe divinity to other than God wherever you may come upon them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place.Yet if they repent, and take to prayer, and render purifying dues, let them go their way: for behold, God is much forgiving, a dispenser of grace.


Odd that you keep missing parts out, so now two verses you have shown poor understanding on, clearly as stated you have no knowlegde on the topic

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:30 pm

The Quran explains many things for those Muslims that follow its beliefs, which would explain why many do not kill people for no reason, for example:


To them against whom war is made wrongfully, permission (to fight) is given -- and truly, God has indeed the power to defend them --: those who have been driven from their homelands against all rights for no other reason than their saying, “Our Lord is God! For if God had not enabled people to defend themselves against one another, all monasteries and churches and synagogues and mosques -- in all of which God’s name is abundantly extolled -- would surely have been destroyed. And God will most certainly succour him who succour His cause: for verily God is most powerful, almighty. (22:39-40)

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:31 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:this is nice..

Qur'an:9:5 "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."


So I have proved you have no knowledge of Islam and you try more mistakes

(9:5) And so, when the sacred months are over, slay those who ascribe divinity to other than God wherever you may come upon them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place.Yet if they repent, and take to prayer, and render purifying dues, let them go their way: for behold, God is much forgiving, a dispenser of grace.






Odd that you keep missing parts out, so now two verses you have shown poor understanding on, clearly as stated you have no knowlegde on the topic


oh so if they decide to believe in allah and pay what allah demands don't kill them..lol and you think that is peaceful and full of Grace...

I think your facemask of atheism is seriously slipping...lol

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:34 pm

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


So I have proved you have no knowledge of Islam and you try more mistakes

(9:5) And so, when the sacred months are over, slay those who ascribe divinity to other than God wherever you may come upon them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place.Yet if they repent, and take to prayer, and render purifying dues, let them go their way: for behold, God is much forgiving, a dispenser of grace.






Odd that you keep missing parts out, so now two verses you have shown poor understanding on, clearly as stated you have no knowlegde on the topic


oh so if they decide to believe in allah and pay what allah demands don't kill them..lol and you think that is peaceful and full of Grace...

I think your facemask of atheism is seriously slipping...lol


Where did I say it was peaceful, never did, if you read back I stated it allows them to fight in defending themselves, thus allows violence. Nothing to do with me being an atheist, just like I know far more on the Bible better than you, which as seen is evidently clear

So a proven you have no knowledge on the Muslim faith

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:36 pm

How is killing the first born of Egypt peaceful?

As I said in both religions they allow violence, the bible though tops the chart for this though, hence why I think religions are balderdash man made nonsense

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:38 pm

PhilDidge wrote:How is killing the first born of Egypt peaceful?

As I said in both religions they allow violence, the bible though tops th chart for this though, hence why I think religions or balderdash man made nonsense

lol did God say to that, was it ever repeated, again you draw comparisons rather than admit the koran is rife with anger and killing and the koran has never changed its message the same things still go on...

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:40 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:


oh so if they decide to believe in allah and pay what allah demands don't kill them..lol and you think that is peaceful and full of Grace...

I think your facemask of atheism is seriously slipping...lol


Where did I say it was peaceful, never did, if you read back I stated it allows them to fight in defending themselves, thus allows violence. Nothing to do with me being an atheist, just like I know far more on the Bible better than you, which as seen is evidently clear

So a proven you have no knowledge on the Muslim faith

how is killing everyone who does not believe in their God self defense...can you see what you are writing...

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:43 pm

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Where did I say it was peaceful, never did, if you read back I stated it allows them to fight in defending themselves, thus allows violence. Nothing to do with me being an atheist, just like I know far more on the Bible better than you, which as seen is evidently clear

So a proven you have no knowledge on the Muslim faith

how is killing everyone who does not believe in their God self defense...can you see what you are writing...


Where does it say that?

Again you cannot read it seems, how is killing Egyptian children peaceful?


Again lets read more shall we to help poor HF

[9.4] Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9.6] And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:45 pm

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:How is killing the first born of Egypt peaceful?

As I said in both religions they allow violence, the bible though tops th chart for this though, hence why I think religions or balderdash man made nonsense

lol did God say to that, was it ever repeated, again you draw comparisons rather than admit the koran is rife with anger and killing and the koran has never changed its message the same things still go on...


What does it matter if it was repeated or not as what crime did new born babies do?

That is not peaceful is it?


The Quran and Bible have violence, though the Bible takes it to new levels of violence

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:48 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

lol did God say to that, was it ever repeated, again you draw comparisons rather than admit the koran is rife with anger and killing and the koran has never changed its message the same things still go on...


What does it matter if it was repeated or not as what crime did new born babies do?

That is not peaceful is it?


The Quran and Bible have violence, though the Bible takes it to new levels of violence

A jealous king slaughtered the babies, God did not tell all his followers to do the same it is totally different, does the bible say today go slaughter babies now it doesn't, does the bible say kill those who do not believe, no it doesn't.

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:50 pm

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


What does it matter if it was repeated or not as what crime did new born babies do?

That is not peaceful is it?


The Quran and Bible have violence, though the Bible takes it to new levels of violence

A jealous king slaughtered the babies, God did not tell all his followers to do the same it is totally different, does the bible say today go slaughter babies now it doesn't, does the bible say kill those who do not believe, no it doesn't.


No god brought death unto the new born of Egypt, for a crime they did not commit, how could new born commit a crime. God carried this out only because one human, a Pharaoh, refused to let the Israelites go, that is barbaric


So why did Moses put to death many of those who started venerating a deity through the image of a Golden calf

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:03 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

A jealous king slaughtered the babies, God did not tell all his followers to do the same it is totally different, does the bible say today go slaughter babies now it doesn't, does the bible say kill those who do not believe, no it doesn't.


No god brought death unto the new born of Egypt, for a crime they did not commit, how could new born commit a crime. God carried this out only because one human, a Pharaoh, refused to let the Israelites go, that is barbaric


So why did Moses put to death many of those who started venerating a deity through the image of a Golden calf

oh i thought you was on about herod..lol if you oppose God's will you will be punished and God had ordained his people would leave Egypt, he was warned but he chose to listen to men not God.

again they had turned from God to graven images, again god does not tell his followers today to go kill every non believer..

the koran still enforces that idea and that's why we have terrorists...

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:05 pm

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


No god brought death unto the new born of Egypt, for a crime they did not commit, how could new born commit a crime. God carried this out only because one human, a Pharaoh, refused to let the Israelites go, that is barbaric


So why did Moses put to death many of those who started venerating a deity through the image of a Golden calf

oh i thought you was on about herod..lol if you oppose God's will you will be punished and God had ordained his people would leave Egypt, he was warned but he chose to listen to men not God.

again they had turned from God to graven images, again god does not tell his followers today to go kill every non believer..

the koran still enforces that idea and that's why we have terrorists...


So the God  of the bible is Violent then, all you are saying is God is justified to kill innocent babies, that is barbaric, who have done no wrong, sorry did you say you followed a peaceful religion?

But yet ordered Moses to kill people who were worshiping another deity, same thing

Why do we have Christian terrorists then?

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:07 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

oh i thought you was on about herod..lol if you oppose God's will you will be punished and God had ordained his people would leave Egypt, he was warned but he chose to listen to men not God.

again they had turned from God to graven images, again god does not tell his followers today to go kill every non believer..

the koran still enforces that idea and that's why we have terrorists...


So the God  of the bible is Violent then, all you are saying is God is justified to kill innocent babies, that is barbaric, who have done no wrong, sorry did you say you followed a peaceful religion?


Why do we have Christian terrorists then?

No God gives warning as i said if you chose not to do as he says it will still come to pass and you get the consequences..

if a guy knocks on your door and says a flood is coming get out and you don't who's fault is it when disaster strikes.

Christian terrorists??

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:08 pm

LOL, God destroyed two entire cities because "everyone in them was wicked," apparently even the new-born babies ... killed a woman for peeking ... killed all life on Earth by drowning because "everyone was wicked," apparently even the wildlife and the babies and toddlers of the world ... God is a monster by his own words.

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:10 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:LOL, God destroyed two entire cities because "everyone in them was wicked," apparently even the new-born babies ... killed a woman for peeking ... killed all life on Earth by drowning because "everyone was wicked," apparently even the wildlife and the babies and toddlers of the world ... God is a monster by his own words.



Hey Ben that is peaceful and justified because he is God  lol! 

This loving deity, worship me or I will send you to a life of eternal misery, nice eh!

Tag, your it, got a few things to do, so over to you on this, enjoy!

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:10 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:LOL, God destroyed two entire cities because "everyone in them was wicked," apparently even the new-born babies ... killed a woman for peeking ... killed all life on Earth by drowning because "everyone was wicked," apparently even the wildlife and the babies and toddlers of the world ... God is a monster by his own words.

all they had to find was one righteous person. God warns people should listen, good news is he hasn't done it for quite some time which is nice, which is unlike islam which always has and always will kill.

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:11 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:LOL, God destroyed two entire cities because "everyone in them was wicked," apparently even the new-born babies ... killed a woman for peeking ... killed all life on Earth by drowning because "everyone was wicked," apparently even the wildlife and the babies and toddlers of the world ... God is a monster by his own words.



Hey Ben that is peaceful and justified because he is God  lol! 

This loving deity, worship me or I will send you to a life of eternal misery, nice eh!

Tag, your it, got a few things to do, so over to you on this, enjoy!

and allah the moon god still demands the death of non believers to this day..

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:14 pm

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


So the God  of the bible is Violent then, all you are saying is God is justified to kill innocent babies, that is barbaric, who have done no wrong, sorry did you say you followed a peaceful religion?


Why do we have Christian terrorists then?

No God gives warning as i said if you chose not to do as he says it will still come to pass and you get the consequences..

if a guy knocks on your door and says a flood is coming get out and you don't who's fault is it when disaster strikes.

Christian terrorists??



How do you warn an infant baby, that has done no wrong?

So god kills innocent babies just because of one man, again, how barbaric, I mean he is God, why not, just use your power to free them, like with the parting of the red sea? Nope he wants to kill babies to make a point on a human, that is again barbaric. So basically God can wipe out people because he see fits to be a mindless butcher if people do not obey him, even though he already knows they are going to do this, so God already has premeditated he is going to murder innocent children, just to prove a point


Have a good evening will catch up with this when back

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:14 pm

PhilDidge wrote:It may help if you read more:


[8.38] Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients has already passed.  

[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.  

[8.40] And if they turn back, then know that Allah is your Patron; most excellent is the Patron and most excellent the Helper.  

[8.41] And know that whatever thing you gain, a fifth of it is for Allah and for the Apostle and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, if you believe in Allah and in that which We revealed to Our servant, on the day of distinction, the day on which the two parties met; and Allah has power over all things.  

so basically the message to Muslims is fight "And fight with them" anyone who disbelieves "Say to those who disbelieve" until they have converted to islam religion should be only for Allah

sounds very peaceful to me

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:15 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

No God gives warning as i said if you chose not to do as he says it will still come to pass and you get the consequences..

if a guy knocks on your door and says a flood is coming get out and you don't who's fault is it when disaster strikes.

Christian terrorists??



How do you warn an infant baby, that has done no wrong?

So god kills innocent babies just because of one man, again, how barbaric, I mean he is God, why not, just use your power to free them, like with the parting of the red sea? Nope he wants to kill babies to make a point on a human, that is again barbaric. So basically God can wipe out people because he see fits to be a mindless butcher if people do not obey him, even though he already knows they are going to do this, so God already has premeditated he is going to murder innocent children, just to prove a point


Have a good evening will catch up with this when back

their man God their pharoah was warned....

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:16 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:



Ten Obvious Reasons Why
Islam is NOT a Religion of Peace
None are they all condemn some people to suffering and are filled with violence



#1 18,000 deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islam in just the last ten years.  (Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so).
Selective argument on a time period not accounting, neglecting when other religions by those that followed have committed if not far more violence. This thus shows those within a religion are capable of committing violence, just as any other faith is. The only difference today is the west is not ruled anymore by religious dogma, as there are plenty of religious nut balls all over the world, take a trip to the states and see for yourself. The same principles would apply to your faith, where history has shown where religious dogma is in charge and has power the same happens  


#2 Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killed for insulting him or for criticizing his religion.  This included women.  Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
So does the bible and people have for centuries killed people for heresy, so the same principles apply to your own faith


#3 Muhammad said in many places that he has been "ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger."  In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that.

Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured loot, sex and a gluttonous paradise as incentives.  He beheaded captives, enslaved children and raped women captured in battle.  Again, Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
So have many prophets of the Bible, even with sacrifice, including Jesus when he returns will bring and unleash destruction onto the earth to then bring in a new era, thus moot argument again  


#4 After Muhammad died, the people who lived with him and knew his religion best immediately fell into war with each other.
As has done Christianity, from its beginning, it was men after that decided what works were real and what were fake dividing the the faith into conflict, absurd argument which means yours is the same

Fatima, Muhammad's favorite daughter, survived the early years among the unbelievers at Mecca safe and sound, yet died of stress from the persecution of fellow Muslims only six months after her father died.  She even miscarried Muhammad's grandchild after having her ribs broken by the man who became the second caliph.

Fatima's husband Ali, who was the second convert to Islam and was raised like a son to Muhammad, fought a civil war against an army raised by Aisha, Muhammad's favorite wife - and one whom he had said was a "perfect woman."  10,000 Muslims were killed in a single battle waged less than 25 years after Muhammad's death.
Christians have been persecuted by many fellow christians even to this day, another absurd argument

Three of the first four Muslim rulers (caliphs) were murdered.  All of them were among Muhammad's closest companions.  The third caliph was killed by allies of the son of the first (who was murdered by the fifth caliph a few years later, then wrapped in the skin of a dead donkey and burned).  The fourth caliph (Ali) was stabbed to death after a bitter dispute with the fifth.  The fifth caliph went on to poison one of Muhammad's two favorite grandsons.  The other grandson was later beheaded by the sixth caliph.
The Church has had warrior popes, let alone wars over who should be pope, so by the same principles your argument would mean the same in Christianity

The infighting and power struggles between Muhammad's family members, closest companions and their children only intensified with time.  Within 50 short years of Muhammad's death, even the Kaaba, which had stood for centuries under pagan religion, lay in ruins from internal Muslim war...
Guess you never read the bible with the conflicts of King David or even Saul, just some of the countless fighting between families, again same principles apply in your faith

And that's just the fate of those within the house of Islam!


#5 Muhammad directed Muslims to wage war on other religions and bring them under submission to Islam.  Within the first few decades following his death, his Arabian companions invaded and conquered Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Zoroastrian lands.
Moses, Joshua and countless others were called upon by their God to wage war and eradicate everyone, so much so this has been used countless times in history as justification to kill people, the sacking of Jerusalem being a prime example, another moot point even more so that when Jesus is meant to return he will wipe out a third of the earth

A mere 25 years after Muhammad's death, Muslim armies had captured land and people within the borders of over 28 modern countries outside of Saudi Arabia.


#6 Muslims continued their Jihad against other religions for 1400 years, checked only by the ability of non-Muslims to defend themselves.  To this day, not a week goes by that Islamic fundamentalists do not attempt to kill Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists explicitly in the name of Allah.
As has done Christians, getting boring now

None of these other religions are at war with each other.
Really, none have ever been at war with each other, balderdash


#7 Islam is the only religion that has to retain its membership by threatening to kill anyone who leaves.  This is according to the example set by Muhammad.
Guess you have never heard of the following:
Julian the Apostate, the Roman emperor, given a Christian education by those who assassinated his family, rejected his upbringing and declared his belief in Neoplatonism once it was safe to do so.
Sir Thomas Wentworth, 1st Earl of Strafford was declared 'The Great Apostate' by Parliament in 1628 for changing his political support from Parliament to Charles I, thus shifting his religious support from Protestantism to Arminianism.
Abraham ben Abraham, (Count Valentine (Valentin, Walentyn) Potocki), a Polish nobleman of the Potocki family who is claimed to have converted to Judaism and was burned at the stake in 1749 because he had renounced Catholicism and had become an observant Jew.
Maria Monk, sometimes considered an apostate of the Catholic Church, though there is little evidence that she ever was a Catholic.
Lord George Gordon, initially a zealous Protestant and instigator of the Gordon riots of 1780, he finally renounced Christianity and converted to Judaism, for which he was ostracized.
Brian Moore, spoke strongly about the effect of the Catholic Church on life in Ireland.
Martin Luther, the founder of Lutheranism, was considered both an apostate and heretic by the strict definition of apostasy according to the Catholic Church. Most Protestants would naturally disagree, calling him a liberator and revolutionary.



#8 Islam teaches that non-Muslims are less than fully human.  Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder, but that a Muslim could never be put to death for killing a non-Muslim.
And the bible teaches the first racism claiming one people above all others, the Jews

#9 The Qur'an never once speaks of Allah's love for non-Muslims, but it speaks of Allah's cruelty toward and hatred of non-Muslims more than 500 times.
Have you read the Bible and what happens to non Christians? Why is Jesus to return to wipe many out?

#10 "Allahu Akbar!  Allahu Akbar!  Allahu Akbar!"
(The last words from the cockpit of Flight 93)


The most contradiction argument yet presented by a Christians


The most contradiction argument yet presented by a Christians


 ::smthg::  ::smthg:: 

maybe korben should teach you how to speak properly


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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:18 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:It may help if you read more:


[8.38] Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients has already passed.  

[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.  

[8.40] And if they turn back, then know that Allah is your Patron; most excellent is the Patron and most excellent the Helper.  

[8.41] And know that whatever thing you gain, a fifth of it is for Allah and for the Apostle and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, if you believe in Allah and in that which We revealed to Our servant, on the day of distinction, the day on which the two parties met; and Allah has power over all things.  

so basically the message to Muslims is fight "And fight with them" anyone who disbelieves "Say to those who disbelieve" until they have converted to islam religion should be only for Allah

sounds very peaceful to me



Again read back, never said it was, just like the bible both have violence, the bible though as pointed out and poorly excused by HF is very violent

He now thinks God is justified also to kill babies because someone who is not there father (except for his own son), just their king, defies him, which makes it okay to murder children. Have to love the logic of religious people, as absurd


Have to go, so will catch up later or tomorrow

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:20 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

so basically the message to Muslims is fight "And fight with them" anyone who disbelieves "Say to those who disbelieve" until they have converted to islam religion should be only for Allah

sounds very peaceful to me



Again read back, never said it was, just like the bible both have violence, the bible though as pointed out and poorly excused by HF is very violent

He now thinks God is justified also to kill babies because someone who is not there father (except for his own son), just their king, defies him, which makes it okay to murder children. Have to love the logic of religious people, as absurd


Have to go, so will catch up later or tomorrow

don't bother

you're out

ben is in

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:29 pm

heavenly father wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:LOL, God destroyed two entire cities because "everyone in them was wicked," apparently even the new-born babies ... killed a woman for peeking ... killed all life on Earth by drowning because "everyone was wicked," apparently even the wildlife and the babies and toddlers of the world ... God is a monster by his own words.

all they had to find was one righteous person. God warns people should listen, good news is he hasn't done it for quite some time which is nice, which is unlike islam which always has and always will kill.

How can a newborn not be righteous?

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:43 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

all they had to find was one righteous person. God warns people should listen, good news is he hasn't done it for quite some time which is nice, which is unlike islam which always has and always will kill.

How can a newborn not be righteous?

new borns would go to heaven automatically anyway... :D 

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:04 pm

heavenly father wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

all they had to find was one righteous person. God warns people should listen, good news is he hasn't done it for quite some time which is nice, which is unlike islam which always has and always will kill.

How can a newborn not be righteous?

new borns would go to heaven automatically anyway... :D 

So it's OK for God to kill babies with fire and brimstone as long as they're going to heaven. Wow, good to know that killing babies isn't a sin, since we now know they'll go to heaven.

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:07 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

new borns would go to heaven automatically anyway... :D 

So it's OK for God to kill babies with fire and brimstone as long as they're going to heaven. Wow, good to know that killing babies isn't a sin, since we now know they'll go to heaven.

God cannot sin but he is a righteous judge and can only judge accordingly. is allah a sinner for demanding the death of all non believers??

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:11 pm

heavenly father wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

new borns would go to heaven automatically anyway... :D 

So it's OK for God to kill babies with fire and brimstone as long as they're going to heaven. Wow, good to know that killing babies isn't a sin, since we now know they'll go to heaven.

God cannot sin but he is a righteous judge and can only judge accordingly. is allah a sinner for demanding the death of all non believers??

How can God be all-powerful but not be able to sin?

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:21 pm

Beekeeper wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

oh thats what you are on about, actually you are misquoting me, i said that God would not write practically a whole book against his own people such as the koran is, he certainly put his chosen people up against it especially when they turned from him but when ever they followed again he would bless them.

 scratch 

Yo ! Heavenly_One...

WHERE do you get that strange idea from, that  ANYONE believes that God "wrote" any Holy books ?!?

Christians don't claim that..

Muslims don't claim that, either..


You're the only one that I see making that absurd and untrue claim ~ another hole that you have shot in your own arguments  !   lol!

i think you will find that Muslims do believe that

ask any Muslim who wrote the qur'an and they will say Allah

do try to keep up the appearance of a semi intelligent life form

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:24 pm

how any one can place ANY credence in either of those two "holy books" is a mystery to me.

one written by some guy wandering the desert
one whose eventual contents were decided by a bunch of early church bishops, summoned by a roman emperor to sort out the internecine war between them, given the choice of...sort this out, if you do you get a pot of gold...if you dont, I'll remove your heads.....

I mean...seriously....

As for the Torah...at least I can see the logic of how it came about, even if I still think its nonsense

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:28 pm

grumpy old git wrote:how any one can place ANY credence in either of those two "holy books" is a mystery to me.

one written by some guy wandering the desert
one whose eventual contents were decided by a bunch of early church bishops, summoned by a roman emperor to sort out the internecine war between them, given the choice of...sort this out, if you do you get a pot of gold...if you dont, I'll remove your heads.....

I mean...seriously....

As for the Torah...at least I can see the logic of how it came about, even if I still think its nonsense

I've always been suspicious as to how many "prophets" came about their "divine revelations" while in close proximity to "burning bushes" ...

The Bible Is Inaccurate And Camels Prove It, Archaeologists Claim - Page 3 Joint--splifr.com_

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Post by Guest on Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:06 am

grumpy old git wrote:how any one can place ANY credence in either of those two "holy books" is a mystery to me.

one written by some guy wandering the desert
one whose eventual contents were decided by a bunch of early church bishops, summoned by a roman emperor to sort out the internecine war between them, given the choice of...sort this out, if you do you get a pot of gold...if you dont, I'll remove your heads.....

I mean...seriously....

As for the Torah...at least I can see the logic of how it came about, even if I still think its nonsense

Oh dear

You think the bible was written by one guy??

Amazing  :D 

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Post by Guest on Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:08 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
grumpy old git wrote:how any one can place ANY credence in either of those two "holy books" is a mystery to me.

one written by some guy wandering the desert
one whose eventual contents were decided by a bunch of early church bishops, summoned by a roman emperor to sort out the internecine war between them, given the choice of...sort this out, if you do you get a pot of gold...if you dont, I'll remove your heads.....

I mean...seriously....

As for the Torah...at least I can see the logic of how it came about, even if I still think its nonsense

I've always been suspicious as to how many "prophets" came about their "divine revelations" while in close proximity to "burning bushes" ...

The Bible Is Inaccurate And Camels Prove It, Archaeologists Claim - Page 3 Joint--splifr.com_




I've always said the same things , same as some historians  Laughing 

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Post by Guest on Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:32 am

smelly_bandit wrote:
grumpy old git wrote:how any one can place ANY credence in either of those two "holy books" is a mystery to me.

one written by some guy wandering the desert
one whose eventual contents were decided by a bunch of early church bishops, summoned by a roman emperor to sort out the internecine war between them, given the choice of...sort this out, if you do you get a pot of gold...if you dont, I'll remove your heads.....

I mean...seriously....

As for the Torah...at least I can see the logic of how it came about, even if I still think its nonsense

Oh dear

You think the bible was written by one guy??

Amazing  :D 

are you deliberately thick or just didn't read the post correctly.....
I said TWO "holy books " ONE written by.....
and
one whos eventual contents.........

DOH!

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Post by Guest on Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:28 am

smelly_bandit wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


The most contradiction argument yet presented by a Christians


The most contradiction argument yet presented by a Christians


 ::smthg::  ::smthg:: 

maybe korben should teach you how to speak properly




Ah the usual worthless counter by smelly

Never mind eh, the fact is both the Quran and the Bible have violence, though the bible as stated takes it to new dimensions.

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Post by Guest on Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:19 am

the bible was God inspired...while the koran was heavily influenced by a girl..

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Post by Guest on Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:00 am

grumpy old git wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

Oh dear

You think the bible was written by one guy??

Amazing  :D 

are you deliberately thick or just didn't read the post correctly.....
I said TWO "holy books " ONE written by.....
and
one whos eventual contents.........

DOH!

im deliberately thick

but apparently you're a natural especially if you are saying that Muhammad wrote the qur'an

you really should do some research

ask any Muslim and they will swear blind that Muhammad was illiterate, its an argument they claim proves the Divinity of the qur'an.

in reality the qur'an went through same process that the bible did, since it was compiled into book format long after Muhammads death and even then there were several drafts before one was chosen but the later caliphs

anyway the NT is a mix of historical accounts,spiritual guide and moral compass

and of course lets not forget that the UK and US are countries based on judeo christian values because people placed credence on the bible

you could of course go live in saudi arabia where your life would be very different






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