The Nationalist's Delusion

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The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Cass on Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:39 pm

Take the time and read this. It's one of the best pieces I've read yet to explain the rise of 45.

"One hundred thirty-nine years since Reconstruction, and half a century since the tail end of the civil-rights movement, a majority of white voters backed a candidate who explicitly pledged to use the power of the state against people of color and religious minorities, and stood by him as that pledge has been among the few to survive the first year of his presidency. Their support was enough to win the White House, and has solidified a return to a politics of white identity that has been one of the most destructive forces in American history. "

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-nationalists-delusion/546356/?utm_source=fbb

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:17 pm

Cass wrote:Take the time and read this. It's one of the best pieces I've read yet to explain the rise of 45.

"One hundred thirty-nine years since Reconstruction, and half a century since the tail end of the civil-rights movement, a majority of white voters backed a candidate who explicitly pledged to use the power of the state against people of color and religious minorities, and stood by him as that pledge has been among the few to survive the first year of his presidency. Their support was enough to win the White House, and has solidified a return to a politics of white identity that has been one of the most destructive forces in American history. "

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-nationalists-delusion/546356/?utm_source=fbb

Humanity is peddling like mad, but backwards instead of forwards.  Being old enough to have fond memories of the hope we felt in the 60s, I find living through this era infinitely depressing and frankly, scary.   Our children and grandchildren don't stand a bloody chance.


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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:28 pm

It’s not difficult. America is a racist nation. All this talk about alienation, economic anxiety, disaffection, etc., etc., are just excuses to avoid the obvious conclusion.

Obama got elected; Trump and a ‘white heritage’ were the reaction.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:37 pm

Here we go again

America is not a racist nation, not by a long margin

The US has many problems, and you tackle them, not by targting the people who voted for Trump, but by taking to task the wrongs Trump does do in polices. Instead they play off his constant narcassism, that he loves and plays up to. All he then does is uses this to claim the media is out to get him and attack him, claiming a victim status. The media fail to see they are providing him one.

The key to defeating Trump is taking him to task on policies. Already many have regretted voting for him. Of which many did based on false promises. Even in the article many rightly say they are not racist and to  castigate them wrongly as such because they were seduced by an idiot. Was more to do with how he fed into their inners fears on jobs and the economy.

People need to stop blaiming those that voted for him, its sounds as bad as when those who moaned at Obama being voted in. Its not productive and just sounds bitter and does nothing to help combat the issues at hand. 

Sorry but the article was poor and only seeks to divide people further. I find that appalling.

To attach this to people like David Duke and co, as if people were voting for this, is what is wrong.

You need to win those people over to your side, as some previously voted for Obama. Constantly deriding people as they voted for Trump, is not going to win people over.

People need to start uniting together, not further dividing people in the US and this article, seeks exactly to do that.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:49 pm

Blah...blah...blah...blah.  The American south was born in racism.  Since then, the acorns are all falling close to the tree.  Look no further.

When you call for uniting, let me ask you: on whose terms to you propose uniting? Southern terms? Racist terms? Anti-immigration terms? I don't think so.


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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:52 pm

And there you have a prime example of someone who has his hands over his ears going, "la la la, I'm not listening, la la"

We have Trump blame Muslim, Mexicans etc
Quill blames Southerners, Republicans etc.

Can someone tell me what is the difference in the hate and blame here?

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:57 pm

Didge wrote:And there you have a prime example of someone who has his hands over his ears going, "la la la, I'm not listening, la la"

We have Trump blame Muslim, Mexicans etc
Quill blames Southerners, Republicans etc.

Can someone tell me what is the difference in the hate and blame here?

Still, I refuse to come over and embrace racism. So, let's not come to unity. There's no value in it. Let's go our separate ways, with our integrity and dignity intact.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:02 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:And there you have a prime example of someone who has his hands over his ears going, "la la la, I'm not listening, la la"

We have Trump blame Muslim, Mexicans etc
Quill blames Southerners, Republicans etc.

Can someone tell me what is the difference in the hate and blame here?

Still, I refuse to come over and embrace racism.  So, let's not come to unity.  There's no value in it.  Let's go our separate ways, with our integrity and dignity intact.


Then you will never be able to help combat racism.

How do you think civil rights came about?

By ostracizing people or reasoning why something is wrong?

How do you think laws have constantly changed for the better giving people equal rights?

Its come about because people have changed through reason and time has help change people.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Maddog on Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:54 pm

Cass wrote:Take the time and read this. It's one of the best pieces I've read yet to explain the rise of 45.

"One hundred thirty-nine years since Reconstruction, and half a century since the tail end of the civil-rights movement, a majority of white voters backed a candidate who explicitly pledged to use the power of the state against people of color and religious minorities, and stood by him as that pledge has been among the few to survive the first year of his presidency. Their support was enough to win the White House, and has solidified a return to a politics of white identity that has been one of the most destructive forces in American history. "

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-nationalists-delusion/546356/?utm_source=fbb

Hillary Clinton was one of the biggest reasons for Trumps success. That and the fact that the Democratic Party has abandoned the white middle class and their economic plight, in order to argue about pronouns.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:22 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Still, I refuse to come over and embrace racism.  So, let's not come to unity.  There's no value in it.  Let's go our separate ways, with our integrity and dignity intact.


Then you will never be able to help combat racism.

Yes, I have to admit I've given up on that issue.

Didge wrote:How do you think civil rights came about?

By ostracizing people or reasoning why something is wrong?

Civil rights is a race between good behavior, and bad behavior. Racism is an issue where there is someone else on the other side...a black. In civil rights, the opposition acknowledges the goodness of the cause and simply ignores it. In racism, the opposition literally depends upon his hatred of the person over there. His definition requires it.

Didge wrote:How do you think laws have constantly changed for the better giving people equal rights?

Its come about because people have changed through reason and time has help change people

The laws don't survive, the Supreme Court overturns them. Look at Shelby County v. Holder, overruling two provisions of the Voting Rights Act of 1965: Section 5, which requires certain states and local governments to obtain federal preclearance before implementing any changes to their voting laws or practices; and Section 4(b), which contains the coverage formula that determines which jurisdictions are subjected to preclearance based on their histories of discrimination in voting.

Now we have a return to the Jim Crow (southern post-civil war) laws, aimed at precluding the voting rights of Blacks...gerrymandering, and voter suppression. We've been discussing this for several years, were you not aware?

I'm afraid we've reached the end of our rope. America is supposed to survive because the population holds the structure and procedures of America higher than the issues and content. However, the RW has now attacked the structure and procedures, and the whole fabric of America is fair game.

Don't you see? When you destroy the fabric, there is nothing left...nothing to salute. It's all a huge shell game: You admit that you grab pussy; yeah, but it was just locker room talk.

With such gambits and dodges, we need to get back to the face-to-face society that the Greeks had, in order to make things work. Only with smaller geographical populations can we tell who is the liar and who is the truthsayer. And as far as the south is concerned, we can truly say it's not our problem.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:28 pm

Maddog wrote:
Cass wrote:Take the time and read this. It's one of the best pieces I've read yet to explain the rise of 45.

"One hundred thirty-nine years since Reconstruction, and half a century since the tail end of the civil-rights movement, a majority of white voters backed a candidate who explicitly pledged to use the power of the state against people of color and religious minorities, and stood by him as that pledge has been among the few to survive the first year of his presidency. Their support was enough to win the White House, and has solidified a return to a politics of white identity that has been one of the most destructive forces in American history. "

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-nationalists-delusion/546356/?utm_source=fbb

Hillary Clinton was one of the biggest reasons for Trumps success.

Yet, she never did anything wrong. She was just the stand-in for everyone's ex-wife. She looked the part of the proverbial shrew, who nagged and berated her husband, and made his life miserable.

And what that says about her, pales in comparison to what it says about white (male) America.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:30 pm

Original Quill wrote:


Yes, I have to admit I've given up on that issue.


Then you are not a part of the solution, but part of the same problem

Everything else you said was irrelevant and excuses.

You have no comprehension how to tackle racism and instead flame the seeds for this to continue.

So again

Then you will never be able to help combat racism.

How do you think civil rights came about?

By ostracizing people or reasoning why something is wrong?

How do you think laws have constantly changed for the better giving people equal rights?

Its come about because people have changed through reason and time has help change people.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:36 pm

Didge wrote:Then you are not a part of the solution, but part of the same problem

Oh, I have a solution. It is the only feasible solution: we form a new entity, the PSA, simultaneously ridding ourselves of the poisonous racism and bigotry, while at the same time building on the better parts of what the former US could have been.

There is something refreshing about new beginnings. In a single moment, all of your ills are removed, and all of your dreams become a reality.

The king is dead; long live the king.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:41 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Then you are not a part of the solution, but part of the same problem

Oh, I have a solution.  It is the only feasible solution: we form a new entity, the PSA, simultaneously ridding ourselves of the poisonous racism and bigotry, while at the same time building on the better parts of what the former US could have been.

There is something refreshing about new beginnings.  In a single moment, all of your ills are removed, and all of your dreams become a reality.

The king is dead; long live the king.

So again you sound exactly like Trump

Let me change your words for you to show how you sound like Trump

"Oh, I have a solution.  It is the only feasible solution: we  make American great again, simultaneously ridding ourselves of the poisonous extremist Muslims and criminal Mexicans, while at the same time building a wall on what the former US could have been."

Like I said, you are not part of the solution, but part of the problem.

You even fail to see how you in fact sound exactly like Trump

All it seems to me, is that you want to push problems away and not tackle them.

The reality is, with your thinking. Civil rights in the US would have never gotten off the ground.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:43 pm

Didge wrote:You have no comprehension how to tackle racism and instead flame the seeds for this to continue.

It would take an act of genocide, and that is unacceptable. Do you see, then, how separation becomes a more attractive alternative?

The best solution would be to change minds, but that is not going to happen. Thus, separating, and leaving the troubles behind, becomes the best alternative solution.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:45 pm

Didge wrote:You even fail to see how you in fact sound exactly like Trump

That's right. It's nothing like Trump.

You're giving us words, not arguments.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:47 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:You have no comprehension how to tackle racism and instead flame the seeds for this to continue.

It would take an act of genocide, and that is unacceptable.  Do you see, then, how separation becomes a more attractive alternative?

The best solution would be to change minds, but that is not going to happen.  Thus, separating, and leaving the troubles behind, becomes the best alternative solution.

See you now sound like somewhere else in history who thought the same of ridding the Jews.

It only seems like an attractive alternative seperation, when you run away from problems, failing to see. That by such poor reasoning, you still fail to tackle those problems. You try to push them away. That has never worked in history. Case in point, the American Civil war.

The best solution is education and reason.

Its how and why civil rights came about

You are simply a defeatest and think by seperation, those problems will go away.

They won't and you end up creating even more new ones that further discriminate.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:53 pm

Didge wrote:All it seems to me, is that you want to push problems away and not tackle them.

There is an element of that. But you've got to pick your battles. Another civil war is not attractive, and would accomplish nothing.

I choose to view it as, leaving a bad place behind. There is nothing desirable about the southern US...least of all the people and culture. So why would you fight for it? I don't know why they fought the first Civil War...should've let 'em go.

Fight for integrity, not for territory.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:57 pm

Didge wrote:See you now sound like somewhere else in history who thought the same of ridding the Jews.

How can you possibly compare genocide with walking away. One is horrible, the other is amicable and quite peaceful.

What you are doing is indirectly name-calling, with no basis in fact.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:59 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:All it seems to me, is that you want to push problems away and not tackle them.

There is an element of that.  But you've got to pick your battles.  Another civil war is not attractive, and would accomplish nothing.

I choose to view it as, leaving a bad place behind.  There is nothing desirable about the southern US...least of all the people and culture.  So why would you fight for it?  I don't know why they fought the first Civil War...should've let 'em go.

Fight for integrity, not for territory.

No war is attractive and its you paving the path to one with seperation. You fail to see that.

Well I am sure Maddog and Ben will love how you have basically condemned them and them as people, when they live in the South. You see, you do not care how many you condemn by your views and how many you wash your hands of.. You have collectivelly condemned them all.

You fight with reason, challenging poor ideologies.

Running away will not solve those problems and in fact you ensure they become a bigger percentage within the US after your divorce.

Again the people that won civil rights, did not run away, did they. They faced a mountain to climb and succeeded, when you would have fallen at the first hurdle. Now more than ever, people are needed to be vocal, pseaking out and showing why poor beliefs are wrong.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:02 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:See you now sound like somewhere else in history who thought the same of ridding the Jews.

How can you possibly compare genocide with walking away.  One is horrible, the other is amicable and quite peaceful.

What you are doing is indirectly name-calling, with no basis in fact.

You said the other alternative is genocide, did you not?

You opened up such an option, even though you stated it should not be. To even bring that up as an alternative was appalling, when it shows you have learnt nothing from history. Its again based on defeatest reasoning to even suggest. To then make the view segregation sounds better. Its an appalling use of someone to trying and win your point. As anything is better than genocide. You seem to think this makes segregation a plus. No it does not. Its poor misdirection

The poor option you want, is segregation and only allows people based on beliefs you decide.

Sounds exactly like Trump again

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:10 pm

Didge wrote:You are simply a defeatest and think by seperation, those problems will go away.

All right, now that I'm acquitted my position quite well, how about you?  You are essentially arguing for keeping up the integrity of the US, by selling out the moral integrity of a population.  Answer these questions:

1.  What is it that you see as valuable to preserve the US as constituted?

2.  What do you see as disadvantageous about dividing the US into separate nations?

At least we isolate the gangrenous limb--the south--and all we have to do is no longer keep up relations with them.  It's a win/win situation.  There's no reason for war; we are walking, not doing anything harmful.  And they are free to go, as well.  

It's like choosing friends: you are not harming anyone by not choosing someone; you are just leaving them alone.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:14 pm

Didge wrote:You opened up such an option, even though you stated it should not be. To even bring that up as an alternative was appalling...

Then why did you bring it up in your Hitler metaphor.

I feel quiet confident in that I have disavowed the alternative. You apparently had some reason for going there.

Well?

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:You are simply a defeatest and think by seperation, those problems will go away.

All right, now that I'm acquitted my position quite well, how about you?  You are essentially arguing for keeping up the integrity of the US, by selling out the moral integrity of a population.  Answer these questions:

1.  What is it that you see as valuable to preserve the US as constituted?

2.  What do you see as disadvantageous about dividing the US into separate nations?

At least we isolate the gangrenous limb--the south--and all we have to do is no longer keep up relations with them.  It's a win/win situation.  There's no reason for war; we are walking, not doing anything harmful.  And they are free to go, as well.  

It's like choosing friends: you are not harming anyone by not choosing someone; you are just leaving them alone.

1) Its people

2) I gave you many reasons already

For one, you are going to base this off beliefs.
Which is exactly like Trumps ban on certain Muslim countries

Second, you create a new divide between a former people and all because you want to run away from problems

Third. Its attempting to push the problem away and will fail to do so

You think you are isolating, when you have people within California, who are racist also.

Are you going to ethnically cleanse them?

Four. It could very much lead to a new civil war

Five. Now people with relatives who live in your new country and live within the rest of the US have become divided by new imaginary barriers you have created

Did you say you gave a good response?

That is laughable

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:17 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:You opened up such an option, even though you stated it should not be. To even bring that up as an alternative was appalling...

Then why did you bring it up in your Hitler metaphor.

I feel quiet confident in that I have disavowed the alternative.  You apparently had some reason for going there.

Well?

Becuase you brought up this extreme option, as if to make segregation sound okay

That has got to be the worst reasoning I have ever heard, as if genocide is an option in the first place

So you tell me, how and why you brought it up, if not to try and elevate segregation to a positive position?

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:22 pm

Didge wrote:1) Its people

And what about it's people?  The question was specific: What is it that you see as valuable in preserving the US as constituted?  How are the people better off in the US with its incumbent racism?

Didge wrote:2) I gave you many reasons already

No you didn't.  Answer the questions. What you give is a repeat of your criticisms, which are just character assaults. I want to know why you thing the solution is disadvantageous.


Last edited by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Maddog on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:25 pm

https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map


Look at this hate group map. Pay attention to the number of groups on the west coast and the North.

Hate is evenly spread throughout this country. Shocked

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:26 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:1) Its people

And what about it's people?  The question was specific: What is it that you see as valuable in preserving the US as constituted?  How are the people better off in the US with its incumbent racism?

Didge wrote:2) I gave you many reasons already

No you didn't.  Answer the questions.

Well your first point is a fabrication on racism

There is a racism, but its incumbent racism, is esstentially lie, in order for you to feel better in yourself to condemn the vast majority of US citizens, based on your selfish needs

You have a people united or that they should unite, no matter their ethnicity and beliefs.

I answered your questions

Your worst point is this, you are essentially xenophobic yourself.

You do not need to make friends with people, but what you are saying is condemning all Americans, because you hold some warped belief and condemned them

I find that abhorrant, as its inherantly hateful and makes you no better than racists.

Essentially, you are no better than Trump by your poor reasoning

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:27 pm

Maddog wrote:https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map


Look at this hate group map. Pay attention to the number of groups on the west coast and the North.

Hate is evenly spread throughout this country.  Shocked  

I agree. I couldn't find a better reason for dividing up the country into relevant, like-minded populations.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:27 pm

Maddog wrote:https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map


Look at this hate group map. Pay attention to the number of groups on the west coast and the North.

Hate is evenly spread throughout this country.  Shocked  


Which goes back to my point on what Quill would do with those hate groups that reside in California?

Ethnically cleanse them?

Would he stop at this or ethnically cleanse Republicans also?

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:29 pm

Didge wrote:Your worst point is this, you are essentially xenophobic yourself.

And didge, you wouldn't be xenophobic towards racism? You should ashamed of that remark. Perhaps I shouldn't associate with you.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:31 pm

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map


Look at this hate group map. Pay attention to the number of groups on the west coast and the North.

Hate is evenly spread throughout this country.  Shocked  


Which goes back to my point on what Quill would do with those hate groups that reside in California?

Ethnically cleanse them?

Would he stop at this or ethnically cleanse Republicans also?

I've already disavowed that. Yet, you keeping coming back to it, didge. You don't speak well for the corporate US...do you know something?

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Maddog on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:34 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map


Look at this hate group map. Pay attention to the number of groups on the west coast and the North.

Hate is evenly spread throughout this country.  Shocked  

I agree.  I couldn't find a better reason for dividing up the country into relevant, like-minded populations.

Are you part Serbian by chance?

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:34 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Your worst point is this, you are essentially xenophobic yourself.

And didge, you wouldn't be xenophobic towards racism?  You should ashamed of that remark.  Perhaps I shouldn't associate with you.

That makes no sense

I can be critical and stand against racism

Does that mean I then have to hate racists?

You should be ashamed of trying to criminalize beliefs and you this to normalize hating people.

You will never change views that way as seen

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:34 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:


Which goes back to my point on what Quill would do with those hate groups that reside in California?

Ethnically cleanse them?

Would he stop at this or ethnically cleanse Republicans also?

I've already disavowed that.  Yet, you keeping coming back to it, didge.  You don't speak well for the corporate US...do you know something?

So you avoid saying whether you would or not


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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Lord Foul on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Still, I refuse to come over and embrace racism.  So, let's not come to unity.  There's no value in it.  Let's go our separate ways, with our integrity and dignity intact.


Then you will never be able to help combat racism.

Yes, I have to admit I've given up on that issue.

Didge wrote:How do you think civil rights came about?

By ostracizing people or reasoning why something is wrong?

Civil rights is a race between good behavior, and bad behavior.  Racism is an issue where there is someone else on the other side...a black.  In civil rights, the opposition acknowledges the goodness of the cause and simply ignores it.  In racism, the opposition literally depends upon his hatred of the person over there.  His definition requires it.

Didge wrote:How do you think laws have constantly changed for the better giving people equal rights?

Its come about because people have changed through reason and time has help change people

The laws don't survive, the Supreme Court overturns them.  Look at Shelby County v. Holder, overruling two provisions of the Voting Rights Act of 1965: Section 5, which requires certain states and local governments to obtain federal preclearance before implementing any changes to their voting laws or practices; and Section 4(b), which contains the coverage formula that determines which jurisdictions are subjected to preclearance based on their histories of discrimination in voting.

Now we have a return to the Jim Crow (southern post-civil war) laws, aimed at precluding the voting rights of Blacks...gerrymandering, and voter suppression.  We've been discussing this for several years, were you not aware?

I'm afraid we've reached the end of our rope.  America is supposed to survive because the population holds the structure and procedures of America higher than the issues and content.  However, the RW has now attacked the structure and procedures, and the whole fabric of America is fair game.

Don't you see?  When you destroy the fabric, there is nothing left...nothing to salute.  It's all a huge shell game: You admit that you grab pussy; yeah, but it was just locker room talk.  

With such gambits and dodges, we need to get back to the face-to-face society that the Greeks had, in order to make things work.  Only with smaller geographical populations can we tell who is the liar and who is the truthsayer.  And as far as the south is concerned, we can truly say it's not our problem.

and here is one of the most cogent arguments for the UK leaving europe.

thank you quill

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:46 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I've already disavowed that.  Yet, you keeping coming back to it, didge.  You don't speak well for the corporate US...do you know something?

So you avoid saying whether you would or not


Don't be silly.  I've already disavowed it three times.  My predilection is for new beginnings.

Now you?  You seem a bit more comfortable with the ideas of disunity.  Is that because you are closer to Europe?  How do you feel about the EU?  UKIP?  Are you in favor of the UK going off from the EU?  

Isn't that because you find yourself more comfortable with your own kind?  If not you, I know that those who favor UKIP would agree with me.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:48 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Yes, I have to admit I've given up on that issue.



Civil rights is a race between good behavior, and bad behavior.  Racism is an issue where there is someone else on the other side...a black.  In civil rights, the opposition acknowledges the goodness of the cause and simply ignores it.  In racism, the opposition literally depends upon his hatred of the person over there.  His definition requires it.



The laws don't survive, the Supreme Court overturns them.  Look at Shelby County v. Holder, overruling two provisions of the Voting Rights Act of 1965: Section 5, which requires certain states and local governments to obtain federal preclearance before implementing any changes to their voting laws or practices; and Section 4(b), which contains the coverage formula that determines which jurisdictions are subjected to preclearance based on their histories of discrimination in voting.

Now we have a return to the Jim Crow (southern post-civil war) laws, aimed at precluding the voting rights of Blacks...gerrymandering, and voter suppression.  We've been discussing this for several years, were you not aware?

I'm afraid we've reached the end of our rope.  America is supposed to survive because the population holds the structure and procedures of America higher than the issues and content.  However, the RW has now attacked the structure and procedures, and the whole fabric of America is fair game.

Don't you see?  When you destroy the fabric, there is nothing left...nothing to salute.  It's all a huge shell game: You admit that you grab pussy; yeah, but it was just locker room talk.  

With such gambits and dodges, we need to get back to the face-to-face society that the Greeks had, in order to make things work.  Only with smaller geographical populations can we tell who is the liar and who is the truthsayer.  And as far as the south is concerned, we can truly say it's not our problem.

and here is one of the most cogent arguments for the UK leaving europe.

thank you quill

You mean wanting to hide away from the world, when that country cannot function without the rest of the world. Its a real case of irony, wanting a divorce but at the same time wanting to make deals with the wider world.

There is one human race and yet sadly some cannot or even want to get along

Hope one day we have a world Government, then maybe people would stop being so petty

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:50 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

So you avoid saying whether you would or not


Don't be silly.  I've already disavowed it three times.  My predilection is for new beginnings.

Now you?  You seem a bit more comfortable with the ideas of disunity.  Is that because you are closer to Europe?  How do you feel about the EU?  UKIP?  Are you in favor of the UK going off from the EU?  

Isn't that because you find yourself more comfortable with your own kind?  If not you, I know that those who favor UKIP would agree with me.

Show me the 3 times, when I only asked a few posts back?

I think we should be part of the EU and even more so a world Governement..

My kind?

Wow, how racist can you get

There is only one human race and unity is what is needed.


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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:50 pm

Didge wrote:You mean wanting to hide away from the world, when that country cannot function without the rest of the world. Its a real case of irony, wanting a divorce but at the same time wanting to make deals with the wider world.

There is one human race and yet sadly some cannot or even want to get along

Hope one day we have a world Government, then maybe people would stop being so petty

Seriously didge, how did you vote in the EU referendum? Do you think those who were opposed are racists?


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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:51 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Don't be silly.  I've already disavowed it three times.  My predilection is for new beginnings.

Now you?  You seem a bit more comfortable with the ideas of disunity.  Is that because you are closer to Europe?  How do you feel about the EU?  UKIP?  Are you in favor of the UK going off from the EU?  

Isn't that because you find yourself more comfortable with your own kind?  If not you, I know that those who favor UKIP would agree with me.

Show me the 3 times, when I only asked a few posts back?

I think we should be part of the EU and even more so a world Governement..


My kind?

Wow, how racist can you get

There is only one human race and unity is what is needed.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:59 pm

Didge wrote:
Didge wrote:

Show me the 3 times, when I only asked a few posts back?

I think we should be part of the EU and even more so a world Governement..


My kind?

Wow, how racist can you get

There is only one human race and unity is what is needed.

So, you think those who opposed being in the EU are racists?  

How do you feel about southerners in the US?  They also believe in separation...in their case, between whites and blacks.  I call them racists.  You?

Seems to me the only difference between you and me, is I offer southerners a kindness...I don't try to force my beliefs on them.  I'll let them be and go their own way.

You, however, seem bent on foisting your own beliefs on others.  Whether or not that is racist, it is contrary to democracy and self-determination.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:04 pm

Original Quill wrote:


So, you think those who opposed being in the EU are racists?  

How do you feel about southerners in the US?  They also believe in separation...in their case, between whites and blacks.  I call them racists.  You?

Seems to me the only difference between you and me, is I offer southerners a kindness...I don't try to force my beliefs on them.  I'll let them be and go their own way.

You, however, seem bent on foisting your own beliefs on others.  Whether or not that is racist, it is contrary to democracy and self-determination.

1) In the main no, as they never said "my kind" as you did

2) Do all Southerners believe in seperation? If any do, I think the same of thier views, the same as yours

3) Kindness, by castigating them in your previous sentence and claiming they are all essentially racist? You simple want to divide the nation and seperate from them. When as seen that does not solve the provblem of racism, as you have hate groups within California

4) So you think its wrong to challenge beliefs?

If you do not like my views that is up to you. Nobody is holding a gun to your head

Maybe you think religious preaching is wrong also?

Have you tried to change the first ammendment?

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Maddog on Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:09 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:


So, you think those who opposed being in the EU are racists?  

How do you feel about southerners in the US?  They also believe in separation...in their case, between whites and blacks.  I call them racists.  You?

Seems to me the only difference between you and me, is I offer southerners a kindness...I don't try to force my beliefs on them.  I'll let them be and go their own way.

You, however, seem bent on foisting your own beliefs on others.  Whether or not that is racist, it is contrary to democracy and self-determination.

1) In the main no, as they never said "my kind" as you did

2) Do all Southerners believe in seperation? If any do, I think the same of thier views, the same as yours

3) Kindness, by castigating them in your previous sentence and claiming they are all essentially racist? You simple want to divide the nation and seperate from them. When as seen that does not solve the provblem of racism, as you have hate groups within California

4) So you think its wrong to challenge beliefs?

If you do not like my views that is up to you. Nobody is holding a gun to your head

Maybe you think religious preaching is wrong also?

Have you tried to change the first ammendment?

Many Southerners are people who are not white. Rolling Eyes

Carry on gentlemen.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:12 pm

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:

1) In the main no, as they never said "my kind" as you did

2) Do all Southerners believe in seperation? If any do, I think the same of thier views, the same as yours

3) Kindness, by castigating them in your previous sentence and claiming they are all essentially racist? You simple want to divide the nation and seperate from them. When as seen that does not solve the provblem of racism, as you have hate groups within California

4) So you think its wrong to challenge beliefs?

If you do not like my views that is up to you. Nobody is holding a gun to your head

Maybe you think religious preaching is wrong also?

Have you tried to change the first ammendment?

Many Southerners are people who are not white. Rolling Eyes

Carry on gentlemen.

Exactly and great point.

Quill has condemned them and castigated them all, based on his views of Southerners.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Maddog on Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:15 pm

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Many Southerners are people who are not white. Rolling Eyes

Carry on gentlemen.

Exactly and great point and Quill has condemned them and castigated them.

And stereotyped them.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:41 pm

Didge wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Many Southerners are people who are not white. Rolling Eyes

Carry on gentlemen.

Exactly and great point.

Quill has condemned them and castigated them all, based on his views of Southerners.

And with good reason.  



I'm quite proud of my disassociation from them.  What decent human being wouldn't be--emphasis on decent.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Maddog on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

Exactly and great point.

Quill has condemned them and castigated them all, based on his views of Southerners.

And with good reason.  



I'm quite proud of my disassociation from them.  What decent human being wouldn't be--emphasis on decent.

Where was MLK from?

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Didge on Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:40 pm

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:

Exactly and great point and Quill has condemned them and castigated them.

And stereotyped them.  

Poorly so and has done so again.

This is why his views are formed from the same hate we see within racists, as I stated earlier.

Which goes back to my original point

We have Trump blame and sterotype Muslim, Mexicans etc
Quill blames and sterotype Southerners, Republicans etc.

Can someone tell me what is the difference in the hate and blame here?

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

Post by Original Quill on Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:30 am

Maddog wrote:
Didge wrote:

1) In the main no, as they never said "my kind" as you did

2) Do all Southerners believe in seperation? If any do, I think the same of thier views, the same as yours

3) Kindness, by castigating them in your previous sentence and claiming they are all essentially racist? You simple want to divide the nation and seperate from them. When as seen that does not solve the provblem of racism, as you have hate groups within California

4) So you think its wrong to challenge beliefs?

If you do not like my views that is up to you. Nobody is holding a gun to your head

Maybe you think religious preaching is wrong also?

Have you tried to change the first ammendment?

Many Southerners are people who are not white. Rolling Eyes


Just as many Texans are not racists. This is a sorting matter, no more. Those who belong in the PSA, can chose to move here should they want. I openly urge it.

However, eliminating choices--as didge argues--does not make it better, but worse. There is something stiltifying about living in a closed society, particularly a closed society that openly champions Neo-Nazi and white supremacist programs.

We are in the business of expanding choice. California, Washington and Oregon have already proved their bona fides as far as anti-racism goes. We expect that not only blacks, but non-racist whites will flock to the PSA, if only because it offers them a fair chance and an environment that is educated, non-coercive and highly inspirational.

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Re: The Nationalist's Delusion

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