BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

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BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:44 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5058193/Labour-politician-suspended-sex-allegations-dead.html

A senior Labour politician has been found dead just days after he was suspended from the party due to allegations about his personal conduct.
The body of former Welsh Government minister Carl Sargeant, 48, was found at an address in North Wales earlier today.
A family statement said his relatives were 'devastated beyond words' about his death and said he was 'the glue that bound us together'.
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said the death was 'terrible and deeply shocking news'.
Mr Sargeant, who is understood to have taken his own life, was a 'much loved husband, father and friend', a statement released by the family said.
The statement said: 'Carl was a much loved husband, father and friend. He wasn't simply a part of our family. He was the glue that bound us together. He was the heart of our family. We loved him so very much.
'He was the most kind and caring husband, father, son and friend.
'We are devastated beyond words, and we know our grief will be shared by all those who knew and loved him.
'We are in shock and grief. We ask that our privacy is respected at this time.'


The news represents a dark turn for the harassment scandal that has been rocking British politics.
Eight Tory MPs and three Labour MPs have been embroiled in allegations of inappropriate behaviour. Theresa May brought party leaders together for a meeting last night in a bid to bolster protection for politicians' staff.
On Friday Sargeant insisted he had resigned after being told that 'shocking and distressing' allegations had been made against him.
But Labour party sources said he was sacked.
He had the party whip removed and has been suspended by Welsh Labour while an investigation was conducted.
The married father-of-two met First Minister Carwyn Jones on Friday morning, when Mr Jones told him he had to go.
Mr Sargeant, a former chief whip and environment minister, had vowed to clear his name.
In a statement released on Friday, Mr Sargeant said: 'I met with the First Minister today and he informed me allegations had been made about my personal conduct, which was shocking and distressing to me.
'The details of the allegations have yet to be disclosed to me. I have written to the General Secretary of Welsh Labour requesting an urgent independent investigation into these allegations in order to allow me to clear my name.
'Given the nature of the allegations, I agreed with the First Minister that it was right that I stand aside from cabinet.
'I look forward to returning to Government once my name has been cleared. I won't be commenting further at this stage.' 
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by gelico on Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:57 pm



this is bad,

we dont know whether he was a dirty ratbag who couldnt face what he knew would come out

or whether he was completely innocent and so devestated by it he took his own life

wtf?

urgent investigation needed.

i dont actually agree with all this bollox about ''he referred to me as totty'' ''he made me feel uncomfortable'' ''he sent me an innapropriate text'' etc etc. it's a witch hunt it seems, yet genuine harrassment and abuse is somehow mocked by all this nonesense.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:47 pm

Well, it'll all come out in the wash.   There needs to be proper investigations until it even becomes public and it's naive to think that there aren't women out there who don't lie about this kind of thing.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:57 pm

It's just been confirmed that he committed suicide.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by smelly-bandit on Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:17 pm

someone has a guilty secret

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:38 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:someone has a guilty secret

That's the immediate suspicion.    That's what most people think when someone kills themselves.  But it could also be that he just couldn't face the shit that tends to stick when these accusations fly around.   There's been many a so called rapist cleared of the assault but it ruins their lives anyway.   I guess we'll see.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by smelly-bandit on Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:51 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:someone has a guilty secret

That's the immediate suspicion.    That's what most people think when someone kills themselves.  But it could also be that he just couldn't face the shit that tends to stick when these accusations fly around.   There's been many a so called rapist cleared of the assault but it ruins their lives anyway.   I guess we'll see.

i dont buy that

a man robust enough to go into politics is someone who automatically has a thicker skin than most. a mere accusation would not be enough to cause a truly innocent person to do this especially when he is surrounded by a host of other men, many of whom will be falsely accused by feminist harridans and devil harpies.

he chose death over exposure, thats how bad his secret was


_________________
“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief.”

- Frantz Fanon
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IT'S NOT OK TO BE WHITE.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:00 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

That's the immediate suspicion.    That's what most people think when someone kills themselves.  But it could also be that he just couldn't face the shit that tends to stick when these accusations fly around.   There's been many a so called rapist cleared of the assault but it ruins their lives anyway.   I guess we'll see.

i dont buy that

a man robust enough to go into politics is someone who automatically has a thicker skin than most. a mere accusation would not be enough to cause a truly innocent person to do this especially when he is surrounded by a host of other men, many of whom will be falsely accused by feminist harridans and devil harpies.

he chose death over exposure, thats how bad his secret was


I'm sure you're right.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by eddie on Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:06 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:someone has a guilty secret

That's the immediate suspicion.    That's what most people think when someone kills themselves.  But it could also be that he just couldn't face the shit that tends to stick when these accusations fly around.   There's been many a so called rapist cleared of the assault but it ruins their lives anyway.   I guess we'll see.

i dont buy that

a man robust enough to go into politics is someone who automatically has a thicker skin than most. a mere accusation would not be enough to cause a truly innocent person to do this especially when he is surrounded by a host of other men, many of whom will be falsely accused by feminist harridans and devil harpies.

he chose death over exposure, thats how bad his secret was


I actually agree with smelly on this. Innocent people don't tend to kill themselves, especially when they claim that they don't know what the allegations really are.
It would seem he couldn't face what was coming.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by Vintage on Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:30 pm

Maybe so, also maybe he can't face what would be happening even if he's not guilty, mud sticks.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:34 pm

I said all I am going to say in my own thread, except that we are now in a very dangerous and toxic atmosphere of trial by the media, malicious trial by the social media and uncontrolled leaking and briefing by politicians, much of which is aimed at revenge or for party political advantage.

And I do not differentiate between the political parties themselves.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:53 pm

eddie wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

i dont buy that

a man robust enough to go into politics is someone who automatically has a thicker skin than most. a mere accusation would not be enough to cause a truly innocent person to do this especially when he is surrounded by a host of other men, many of whom will be falsely accused by feminist harridans and devil harpies.

he chose death over exposure, thats how bad his secret was


I actually agree with smelly on this.  Innocent people don't tend to kill themselves, especially when they claim that they don't know what the allegations really are.
It would seem he couldn't face what was coming.


Two American cases have created a causal chain relating the suicide attempt to actual guilt through the defendant's humiliation." In People v. Duncan, the court reasoned, "it is undoubtedly true that one guilty of the charge might prefer to avoid the humiliation and disgrace of a conviction and escape the punishment imposed by law by taking his life, just as he might seek to accomplish the same result by flight or escape from custody." 1 It is generally recognized that humiliation or loss of prestige can contribute to the act of self-destruction, as was demonstrated by the many self-inflicted deaths during the depression.  Psychologists would hardly agree, however, that the loss of prestige need be based on any objectively substantial failure or humiliating incident. Menninger points out that in suicidally inclined persons there is an enormous overdevelopment of the conscience which places "inexorable and inflexible" demands on them.43 Scores of individuals have attempted or succeeded in taking their own lives after minor embarrassments or failures that would appear substantial only when measured in terms of that individual's immature or warped sense of values."' Thus the logic of the courts is again opposed by the scientist, and the pattern of disagreement is clear: to the psychologist no perfectly normal person would attempt suicide and the person who does is moved by such a myriad of possibilities that it would be entirely unrealistic to assign any one cause. 


Humiliation is evidentially the weakest of these three because the public disgrace connected with criminal arrest and trial is present whether the party is guilty or innocent. In short, the accused may feel guilty, fearful or depressed, and his mental frame may impel him toward the act of self-destruction; but the causal connection between the legal crime and the personal, moral conviction which leads to the attempt is not evident. 


http://openscholarship.wustl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3143&context=law_lawreview
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:54 pm

Vintage wrote:Maybe so, also maybe he can't face what would be happening even if he's not guilty, mud sticks.

Well, that was my point.   Most people are already convinced he's guilty.  But guilty of what, exactly?   Touching someone's knee, or bottom, or raping someone?   Before the facts are clear, we just don't know.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by nicko on Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:15 pm

He called some Woman Luv !
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:13 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:I said all I am going to say in my own thread, except that we are now in a very dangerous and toxic atmosphere of trial by the media, malicious trial by the social media and uncontrolled leaking and briefing by politicians, much of which is aimed at revenge or for party political advantage.

And I do not differentiate between the political parties themselves.


I agree with Moley.



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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:32 pm

The allegations against 'gentle giant' Mr Sargeant were not serious enough for police to have been called in, it has emerged.


Carwyn Jones has not disclosed the nature of the allegations and on the morning of his death Mr Sargeant is said to have 'begged' party officials to tell him.


So, I wonder if there is no concrete evidence to put forwards and that's why the Labour party were dragging their feet in this?    Apparently, even after his death, his family and lawyers have still not received the accusations.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5061221/Labour-Carl-Sargeant-say-thrown-wolves.html
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by eddie on Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:55 pm

Suicide angers me. I hate it when people throw their lives away.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by SEXY MAMA on Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:57 pm

eddie wrote:Suicide angers me.  I hate it when people throw their lives away.

It’s a very selfish thing to do IMO

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Top Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant is found dead days after being suspended by the party over 'shocking' sex allegations

Post by eddie on Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:02 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
eddie wrote:Suicide angers me.  I hate it when people throw their lives away.

It’s a very selfish thing to do IMO

Yes I can never get my head round it, and I know some people suffer depression their whole lives and they feel death is their only doorway to peace - I can kind of appreciate that - but people like this guy? A sniff of trouble and he fucks off this mortal coil leaving a wake of despair within his family?

That's just shittier than shit.

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