Grenville Tower survivors

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Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Angry Andy on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

Are being given leave to remain Britain with permanent residency.
At last, a sensible decision given how the local ( Conservative) council screwed up the fire safety of the building then made a complete rats arse of things after the event.


http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-tower-survivors-to-be-offered-permanent-residency-in-uk-11076500

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:48 pm


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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Syl on Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:50 pm

Didge wrote:
Syl wrote:

Even the government admit they have no idea how many unaccounted people are here in the UK....so who knows what effect all of the above have on the housing market?

Come again?
So how is it going to effect the housing market, if they can only obtain housing illegally if it is sub-let?

Do you ever think anything through before answering Syl?

I mean if you wanted to end the housing crisis over night would be to tackle the fact there is hundreds of thousands of vacant properties.

You think there is that number sub-let to illegals?

Seriously?

Its calle being sensible here. The number you speak of would be minimal and would hardly make a dent in the housing issue.

You also fail to blame what really is at fault here. Governements not building enough infrustucture to accomdate the rise in need for this.

Whichever way you phrase it....everyone has to live somewhere.

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:51 pm

Syl wrote:
Didge wrote:

Come again?
So how is it going to effect the housing market, if they can only obtain housing illegally if it is sub-let?

Do you ever think anything through before answering Syl?

I mean if you wanted to end the housing crisis over night would be to tackle the fact there is hundreds of thousands of vacant properties.

You think there is that number sub-let to illegals?

Seriously?

Its calle being sensible here. The number you speak of would be minimal and would hardly make a dent in the housing issue.

You also fail to blame what really is at fault here. Governements not building enough infrustucture to accomdate the rise in need for this.

Whichever way you phrase it....everyone has to live somewhere.

I agree Syl, so why not start with the properties that are sitting empty and have been for over a year?

Anyway have things to do, have a good evening.
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Syl on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:01 pm

I agree...its a sin not to let out idle properties when there is a dire housing shortage.

Night . x

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:02 pm

'...Analysis by the Migrationwatch think-tank has estimated there are up to 1.1million foreign people living in Britain illegally...'


That's a lot of housing being taken up...

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:09 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:'...Analysis by the Migrationwatch think-tank has estimated there are up to 1.1million foreign people living in Britain illegally...'


That's a lot of housing being taken up...

So they estimate but cannot provide any real figures

Do you have any other bodies that coroborate these estimates?

You see its never as clear cut as you think

https://fullfact.org/immigration/how-many-people-overstay-visas/

Also, are you suggesting that hundreds of thousand of people are illgeally sub-letting?



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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:13 pm

Syl wrote:I agree...its a sin not to let out idle properties when there is a dire housing shortage.

Night . x

lol Am finally going now Syl

Night

x
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by smelly-bandit on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:15 pm

Didge wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

as seen by your imaginary made up numbers??

They were not imaginary

I see you once again duck out of answering how and who you think should be deported and the consequences of this.

So far based on Tommys views, it would have no real effect at all.

If they aren't imaginary then they must be official, if they are official then there must be a website

Provide the link to the website please

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:26 pm

'...Two years ago, it was claimed that a staggering half a million failed asylum seekers were in Britain...' ...(awaiting appeals to be heard)...!






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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Vicar of Dibley (vod) on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:31 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

Yep talks sense .

NICE avatar

thank you Smile Laughing

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:04 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:'...Two years ago, it was claimed that a staggering half a million failed asylum seekers were in Britain...' ...(awaiting appeals to be heard)...!






Ah I see smelly never challenges your claims, just accepts you claims

Hilarious double standards
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:05 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Didge wrote:

They were not imaginary

I see you once again duck out of answering how and who you think should be deported and the consequences of this.

So far based on Tommys views, it would have no real effect at all.

If they aren't imaginary then they must be official, if they are official then there must be a website

Provide the link to the website please

I actually gave a link to assylum seekers, by full fact

Did you not read it?

Clearly not I guess
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by smelly-bandit on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:14 pm

Didge wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

If they aren't imaginary then they must be official, if they are official then there must be a website

Provide the link to the website please

I actually gave a link to assylum seekers, by full fact

Did you not read it?

Clearly not I guess

I take it you provided it in invisible ink

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:21 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Didge wrote:

I actually gave a link to assylum seekers, by full fact

Did you not read it?

Clearly not I guess

I take it you provided it in invisible ink


Or you need to go to specsavers

Anyhow nice misdirection from the fact you cannot say who you would want out of this country
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:24 pm

Didge wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

If they aren't imaginary then they must be official, if they are official then there must be a website

Provide the link to the website please

I actually gave a link to assylum seekers, by full fact

Did you not read it?

Clearly not I guess


I can't see any 'full fact link on asylum seekers' on this thread, Dodge...!


Are you sure you posted it... and not just imagined it...?



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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:27 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Didge wrote:

I actually gave a link to assylum seekers, by full fact

Did you not read it?

Clearly not I guess


I can't see any 'full fact link on asylum seekers' on this thread, Dodge...!


Are you sure you posted it... and not just imagined it...?




I thought I had posted this

https://fullfact.org/immigration/uk-refugees/

My apologies
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by smelly-bandit on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:32 pm

Didge wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:


I can't see any 'full fact link on asylum seekers' on this thread, Dodge...!


Are you sure you posted it... and not just imagined it...?




I thought I had posted this

https://fullfact.org/immigration/uk-refugees/

My apologies

That's a charity not an official website

Make believe figures from a charity paid to put them out

Anyway you had your chance and you blew it, I'm back to being bored

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:34 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Didge wrote:


I thought I had posted this

https://fullfact.org/immigration/uk-refugees/

My apologies

That's a charity not an official website

Make believe figures from a charity paid to put them out

Anyway you had your chance and you blew it, I'm back to being bored

Charity?




Seriously, that did make me laugh you freak.

So it has links to all the stats, but you ignore again evidence

Priceless

Now are you going to post up who you think should leave and then show how this will benefit the UK in all the factors you claimed
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:35 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Illegal immigrants should not be here.


Failed/bogus asylum seekers should not be here.


Foreign criminals should not be here.


Any EU national who arrived here under 'free movement of workers' rules, who has not been working but instead living off benefits should not be here.


Any other foreign national who arrived here and allowed in under the belief they were a needed worker and filling some skills gap, but who has not been working and instead living off benefits should not be here.


Just for starters... and none of the above should be occupying council/housing association homes either!!!





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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by smelly-bandit on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:36 pm

Didge wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

That's a charity not an official website

Make believe figures from a charity paid to put them out

Anyway you had your chance and you blew it, I'm back to being bored

Charity?




Seriously, that did make me laugh you freak.

So it has links to all the stats, but you ignore again evidence

Priceless

Now are you going to post up who you think should leave and then show how this will benefit the UK in all the factors you claimed

Yes a charity

Did YOU look at the link??

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:43 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Didge wrote:

Charity?




Seriously, that did make me laugh you freak.

So it has links to all the stats, but you ignore again evidence

Priceless

Now are you going to post up who you think should leave and then show how this will benefit the UK in all the factors you claimed

Yes a charity

Did YOU look at the link??


I did not know they were a charity  Laughing

Hey you learn something new everyday

So are their facts and links to stats then wrong if they are?

Take your time
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by smelly-bandit on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:47 pm

Didge wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

Yes a charity

Did YOU look at the link??


I did not know they were a charity  Laughing

Hey you learn something new everyday

So are their facts and links to stats then wrong if they are?

Take your time

That's what happens when don't read the links you post up.


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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:50 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Didge wrote:


I did not know they were a charity  Laughing

Hey you learn something new everyday

So are their facts and links to stats then wrong if they are?

Take your time

That's what happens when don't read the links you post up.



So you cannot disprove their facts, you can only claim they cannot post facts, because they are a charity.

Offering no reason

Hilarious

So you going to answer who you think should leave or continue to misdirect then?
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by smelly-bandit on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:53 pm

Didge wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

That's what happens when don't read the links you post up.



So you cannot disprove their facts, you can only claim they cannot post facts, because they are a charity.

Offering no reason

Hilarious

So you going to answer who you think should leave or continue to misdirect then?

Think I'll just

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:15 pm


Those who were illegally subletting were fraudulently gaining financially and should be prosecuted for it!!!


The illegal immigrants who were illegally living there were also criminally responsible for a number of offences... and should also be prosecuted and deported!!!




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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:25 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Those who were illegally subletting were fraudulently gaining financially and should be prosecuted for it!!!


The illegal immigrants who were illegally living there were also criminally responsible for a number of offences... and should also be prosecuted and deported!!!




Yes you have made that point and its an interesting point. But where do you want to send the children of many of these illegal immigrants, when many are born here?

What crime have they committed?

Being born here?
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by smelly-bandit on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:27 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Those who were illegally subletting were fraudulently gaining financially and should be prosecuted for it!!!


The illegal immigrants who were illegally living there were also criminally responsible for a number of offences... and should also be prosecuted and deported!!!




It would be pointless to prosecute unless prosecution brought reparations

Prosecution followed by hard labour to help rebuild infrastructure followed by deportation is the correct course of action

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:30 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
Those who were illegally subletting were fraudulently gaining financially and should be prosecuted for it!!!


The illegal immigrants who were illegally living there were also criminally responsible for a number of offences... and should also be prosecuted and deported!!!




It would be pointless to prosecute unless prosecution brought reparations

Prosecution followed by hard labour to help rebuild infrastructure followed by deportation is the correct course of action


So you mean slave labour then?

So tell me, why are Dutch prisons closing down, because they have a lesser need to keep people in prison, alongside less crime?
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by smelly-bandit on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:49 pm

Didge wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

It would be pointless to prosecute unless prosecution brought reparations

Prosecution followed by hard labour to help rebuild infrastructure followed by deportation is the correct course of action


So you mean slave labour then?

So tell me, why are Dutch prisons closing down, because they have a lesser need to keep people in prison, alongside less crime?

Indentured servitude

Slave labour

Debts repaid

Your choice

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by smelly-bandit on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:49 pm

Didge wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

It would be pointless to prosecute unless prosecution brought reparations

Prosecution followed by hard labour to help rebuild infrastructure followed by deportation is the correct course of action


So you mean slave labour then?

So tell me, why are Dutch prisons closing down, because they have a lesser need to keep people in prison, alongside less crime?

Indentured servitude

Slave labour

Debts repaid

Your choice

_________________
“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief.”

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:50 pm

Didge wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
Those who were illegally subletting were fraudulently gaining financially and should be prosecuted for it!!!


The illegal immigrants who were illegally living there were also criminally responsible for a number of offences... and should also be prosecuted and deported!!!




Yes you have made that point and its an interesting point. But where do you want to send the children of many of these illegal immigrants, when many are born here?

What crime have they committed?

Being born here?


Waffle Dodge...!!!



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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:52 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Didge wrote:

Yes you have made that point and its an interesting point. But where do you want to send the children of many of these illegal immigrants, when many are born here?

What crime have they committed?

Being born here?


Waffle Dodge...!!!




So you are admitting to not being able to answer my question then.

No worries
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:03 am

smelly-bandit wrote:
Didge wrote:


So you mean slave labour then?

So tell me, why are Dutch prisons closing down, because they have a lesser need to keep people in prison, alongside less crime?

Indentured servitude

Slave labour

Debts repaid

Your choice


So your line of thought is revenge

What debts paid?

Is sentencing of a crime based on revenege?

Is then that they have served that crime not enough to you?

It seems you want to place an unequal system here.

That if two people commit a crime, one faces an added punishment, not based on the crime, but on geography.

So should all prisoners or those who commit certain crimes be sent to places other then the uk?

Its happened before in this country

Are all then criminals sentenced to life for you, no matter the crime they commit or does it have variance? Based on how you then think people should be deported only based on the geography of their birth?

Now has the death penalty ever worked, as a deterrent?

Clearly not.

Hence my point on what causes crime.

So why is it that countries that has less relative poverty have lower crime rates?
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:14 am


You are clutching at straws here Dodge...!!!


Laughing




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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:15 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
You are clutching at straws here Dodge...!!!


Laughing





Is that why you are misdirecting Tommy?
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:47 am

The debts racked up by illegals using services they aren't entitled to

Hard labour

Deported

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:09 am

smelly-bandit wrote:The debts racked up by illegals using services they aren't entitled to

Hard labour

Deported


Yes you said that the first time

How about answering some very straight forward questions?

So your line of thought is revenge

What debts paid?

Is sentencing of a crime based on revenege?

Is then that they have served that crime not enough to you?

It seems you want to place an unequal system here.

That if two people commit a crime, one faces an added punishment, not based on the crime, but on geography.

So should all prisoners or those who commit certain crimes be sent to places other then the uk?

Its happened before in this country

Are all then criminals sentenced to life for you, no matter the crime they commit or does it have variance? Based on how you then think people should be deported only based on the geography of their birth?

Now has the death penalty ever worked, as a deterrent?

Clearly not.

Hence my point on what causes crime.

So why is it that countries that has less relative poverty have lower crime rates?
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:28 am

I don't care about what causes crime

I care about rounding up the vermin who are here illegally , giving them a big ole taste-o-the lash as they bend their backs to build new roads, schools houses and hospitals and then when they are all used up they get deported

Not sure how to make it clearer to you
What's so hard to understand about that?

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:34 am

smelly-bandit wrote:I don't care about what causes crime

I care about rounding up the vermin who are here illegally , giving them a big ole  taste-o-the lash as they bend their backs to build new roads, schools houses and hospitals and then when they are all used up they get deported

Not sure how to make it clearer to you
What's so hard to understand about that?

1) So there you go. You have no clue and only want crime to continue, not look to help prevent crime, by understand the causes that lead to crime. Mainly relative poverty.

That says it all

2) So you want to introduce a Saudi based punishment based system. Well its no surpise being as you yesterday admitted to being a Salaffist Muslim

3) Yes you have made it perfectly clear you are ruled by emotions and not any reasons.
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:36 am

More crimes = more hard labour = cheap infrastructure

A win win.

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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:41 am

smelly-bandit wrote:More crimes = more hard labour = cheap infrastructure

A win win.

Then why has it never prevented crime in history?

So you also want to put people out o Jobs

You clear having been watching Shawshank Redemption too much

In fact crime was more prolific under such mesaures.

Like I say, your thought process is based on emotions and not any reason.
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:43 am

Crime Can never be prevented

It can only be profited from.

Hard labour = cheap infrastructure followed be deportation


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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:47 am

smelly-bandit wrote:Crime Can never be prevented

It can only be profited from.

Hard labour = cheap infrastructure followed be deportation


Well crime rates are certainly far lower in countries and in countries that have far less stricter punishments.

Proving your way is ineffective.

So again you want to put people out of jobs

Thus ending up having more people possible turn to crime when they are out of work.

Showing you cannot think anything through.
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:51 am

You're a stuck record didge

How many ways can I say it?

Round up the illegals, put them to work on our infrastructure and then deport them.

How many more times do you want me to say it?

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- Frantz Fanon
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:53 am

smelly-bandit wrote:You're a stuck record didge

How many ways can I say it?

Round up the illegals, put them to work on  our infrastructure and then deport them.

How many more times do you want me to say it?

Oh so you want to now add extra punishments for people simple wanting to better their lives, by wanting to live in a country, that has better prospects.

Incredible that you would think this.

You can say it may times, what you fail to do is answer points and generally run away from them.
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by nicko on Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:23 am

Why should people "who want better lives" pimp off people who have worked and paid for the lives they have now?
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:32 am

nicko wrote:Why should people "who want better lives" pimp off people who have worked and paid for the lives they have now?

How are they pimping, by simple wanting to come here, work to better their lives?

And by the way, generally migrants pay into the system than get out of this. More than those born here. As most born here will have had their schooling and medical care free.

You could of course do this another way. In todays monetary value, pay back all the money to nations, the British empire stole, taxed and exploited workers. Let alone compensate the individual families that suffered under British rule.

Which would come to the tune of trillions no doubt.
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by nicko on Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:40 am

Total load of bollocks Didge, and you know it. Your just trying to start an argument, people who havent "payed in have no rights against people who have. That's my opinion, You have yours,and never the twain etc.
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by Didge on Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:43 am

nicko wrote:Total load of bollocks Didge,   and you know it.   Your just trying to start an argument, people who havent "payed in have no rights against people who have.     That's my opinion,  You have yours,and never the twain etc.

Misdirection again.

I make points, if you cannot counter them, just say so, as poor excuses do not cut it.

So you just invented a concept, saying some humans should have more rights than others based on some imaginary boundaries created by humans.
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Re: Grenville Tower survivors

Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:56 am

nicko wrote:Why should people "who want better lives" pimp off people who have worked and paid for the lives they have now?

I wonder if I asked didge to pay for my booze every weekend whether he'd agree

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