Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

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Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Didge on Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:48 pm

A London bus driver has been filmed in a remarkable altercation with a disabled man trying to board her vehicle. Chris Stapleton, 60, told HuffPost UK the tirade was so abusive he is going to report it as a hate crime. He said: “What I was asking for here was that the wheelchair space be cleared, not that I absolutely had to get on the bus but I wanted her to fulfil her obligation to at least ask so I would have a chance.”


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/bus-driver-disabled-rights_uk_59d7a5e5e4b046f5ad97e5aa?utm_hp_ref=uk



Video on link.

Whilst what she said at the end was poor and born from frustration. I do not think the person with disabilities helped the situation here with his attitude.

It certainly was not a hate crime, that is just out right ridiculous.

I am also sure, if he had boarded, space would have been made for him by passengers. What was the bus driver to do? Kick off the mothers with children in buggies?

So to me, this is about using common sense, and to me both are in the wrong in how this panned out.
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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Syl on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:17 pm

I though legally  wheelchair users had priority over pushchairs if space was limited on public transport.

So he was in the right.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/wheelchair-spaces-buses-must-be-priority-court-rules

"Bus companies must end ‘first come, first served’ policies, and do more to give priority to wheelchair users after a landmark Supreme Court ruling today."


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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by nicko on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:20 pm

On some London Buses, the luggage compartment is labelled ,

For Wheelchairs only, that's just what i'v been told.

Don't know if true or not !
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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Didge on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:23 pm

Syl wrote:I though legally  wheelchair users had priority over pushchairs if space was limited on public transport.

So he was in the right.


Actually legally they do not. All that can be done, is to ask people if they will move them.

This is the problem when some people trying to take advantage of their disabilities.

Again everyone should have equality under the law and most people with disabilities want to be treated the same as everyone else.

Look, if a bus comes along and its full, I cannot get on. I accept that its busy, I may get frustrated but have to wait for the next one to come along.

Now of course I would give up my seat or space for others. Espcially for people with young children and those with disabilities. That does not mean you can demand this off people who have paid to then have them leave the bus.

I mean what next. Do paying customers have to get off to then privilege someone else?

By doing that, it ceases to be equality under the law.


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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:23 pm

Does the law require people to get off a bus to make room for a disabled person?

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Didge on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:25 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Does the law require people to get off a bus to make room for a disabled person?


No it does not Rags.

If me, i would, but that is down to individual people.
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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:26 pm

I'd be annoyed if someone was filming me when I was doing my job. I didn't like his attitude.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Syl on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:30 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Does the law require people to get off a bus to make room for a disabled person?

I think it does.


https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/wheelchair-spaces-buses-must-be-priority-court-rules


"Bus companies must end ‘first come, first served’ policies, and do more to give priority to wheelchair users after a landmark Supreme Court ruling today.
The case of Paulley vs FirstGroup plc, backed by the Equality and Human Rights Commission, will mean wheelchair users should be given priority for wheelchair spaces on buses. Bus companies should have clear policies in place and give training to drivers to remove the barriers wheelchair users face when using buses.

Equality and Human Rights Commission Chair, David Isaac, called today’s verdict “a victory for disabled people’s rights” and “a hugely important decision, which has helped clarify the current state of the law, and will give confidence to thousands of disabled people in Britain to use public transport”.

The case centred on whether a ‘first come, first served’ policy was discriminatory against wheelchair users, or if bus companies could do more to ensure wheelchair spaces on buses are vacated when a wheelchair user enters the bus.
In February 2012, Doug Paulley, a wheelchair user, tried to board a FirstGroup bus from Wetherby to Leeds. The wheelchair space was being used by a mother with a pushchair and a sleeping child. She refused the driver's request to move or fold the pushchair and so the driver told Mr Paulley he could not board the bus.

Paulley successfully sued FirstGroup at Leeds County Court for unlawful discrimination against him due to his disability, but this was later overturned on appeal. The case was then heard by the Supreme Court, which has given its final verdict today. The Commission has supported Mr Paulley at the Court of Appeal, and at the Supreme Court."

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Didge on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:32 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Does the law require people to get off a bus to make room for a disabled person?

I think it does.


https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/wheelchair-spaces-buses-must-be-priority-court-rules


"Bus companies must end ‘first come, first served’ policies, and do more to give priority to wheelchair users after a landmark Supreme Court ruling today.
The case of Paulley vs FirstGroup plc, backed by the Equality and Human Rights Commission, will mean wheelchair users should be given priority for wheelchair spaces on buses. Bus companies should have clear policies in place and give training to drivers to remove the barriers wheelchair users face when using buses.

Equality and Human Rights Commission Chair, David Isaac, called today’s verdict “a victory for disabled people’s rights” and “a hugely important decision, which has helped clarify the current state of the law, and will give confidence to thousands of disabled people in Britain to use public transport”.

The case centred on whether a ‘first come, first served’ policy was discriminatory against wheelchair users, or if bus companies could do more to ensure wheelchair spaces on buses are vacated when a wheelchair user enters the bus.
In February 2012, Doug Paulley, a wheelchair user, tried to board a FirstGroup bus from Wetherby to Leeds. The wheelchair space was being used by a mother with a pushchair and a sleeping child. She refused the driver's request to move or fold the pushchair and so the driver told Mr Paulley he could not board the bus.

Paulley successfully sued FirstGroup at Leeds County Court for unlawful discrimination against him due to his disability, but this was later overturned on appeal. The case was then heard by the Supreme Court, which has given its final verdict today. The Commission has supported Mr Paulley at the Court of Appeal, and at the Supreme Court."


Where does that say people have to get off who have paid?
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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Didge on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:34 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I'd be annoyed if someone was filming me when I was doing my job. I didn't like his attitude.


I agree with you Rags

I am all for defending the rights of those with disabilities, but if the bus has no room, then like many people you have to wait for the nest bus. If you can make space all well and good, but one group of vunerable people should not be compremised by another.
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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:36 pm

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/firstgroup-plc-v-paulley

I think it's just saying that bus drivers should be more insistent, but obviously they can't insist people move or get off a bus.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:36 pm

Did he get on the bus or not?

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:38 pm

I think she should have the right to do nothing unless he stopped filming. He said "I think you'll face disciplinary action over this", which obviously provoked, her, and he then put it on Facebook? That's just not very nice.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by eddie on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:39 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Does the law require people to get off a bus to make room for a disabled person?

I have been on many, many buses in my time as I don't drive, and yes, if there's no room due to prams, the driver will ask the parent to collapse the pram and let the wheelchair on.

So not sure if it's a "law" but wheelchair users are seen to be given priority over a pram.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Syl on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:41 pm

Didge wrote:
Syl wrote:

I think it does.


https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/wheelchair-spaces-buses-must-be-priority-court-rules


"Bus companies must end ‘first come, first served’ policies, and do more to give priority to wheelchair users after a landmark Supreme Court ruling today.
The case of Paulley vs FirstGroup plc, backed by the Equality and Human Rights Commission, will mean wheelchair users should be given priority for wheelchair spaces on buses. Bus companies should have clear policies in place and give training to drivers to remove the barriers wheelchair users face when using buses.

Equality and Human Rights Commission Chair, David Isaac, called today’s verdict “a victory for disabled people’s rights” and “a hugely important decision, which has helped clarify the current state of the law, and will give confidence to thousands of disabled people in Britain to use public transport”.

The case centred on whether a ‘first come, first served’ policy was discriminatory against wheelchair users, or if bus companies could do more to ensure wheelchair spaces on buses are vacated when a wheelchair user enters the bus.
In February 2012, Doug Paulley, a wheelchair user, tried to board a FirstGroup bus from Wetherby to Leeds. The wheelchair space was being used by a mother with a pushchair and a sleeping child. She refused the driver's request to move or fold the pushchair and so the driver told Mr Paulley he could not board the bus.

Paulley successfully sued FirstGroup at Leeds County Court for unlawful discrimination against him due to his disability, but this was later overturned on appeal. The case was then heard by the Supreme Court, which has given its final verdict today. The Commission has supported Mr Paulley at the Court of Appeal, and at the Supreme Court."


Where does that say people have to get off who have paid?

Its not that clear cut, but it does say 'Buses must end the first come first served policy'......presumably the first come have already paid.

Personally I didn't like the mans 'entitlement' stance.
The bus conductress shouldn't have carried on the argument though. She made her stance and should have left it at that.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:41 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Does the law require people to get off a bus to make room for a disabled person?

I have been on many, many buses in my time as I don't drive, and yes, if there's no room due to prams, the driver will ask the parent to collapse the pram and let the wheelchair on.

So not sure if it's a "law" but wheelchair users are seen to be given priority over a pram.

Yes, but he said that people can "choose" to get off if there's no room. That's not an obligation surely.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by eddie on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:43 pm

I don't know, I'm only telling you that I've absolutely seen it with my two eyes on numerous occasions that a driver has asked parents to collapse their pram - there's a storage place right near the driver for folded prams and luggage.

Hahaha had to edit my post real quick as I'd written "prawns" instead of "prams" and that would've just been plain weird.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Didge on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:43 pm

Syl wrote:
Didge wrote:


Where does that say people have to get off who have paid?

Its not that clear cut, but it does say 'Buses must end the first come first served policy'......presumably the first come have already paid.

Personally I didn't like the mans 'entitlement' stance.
The bus conductress shouldn't have carried on the argument though. She made her stance and should have left it at that.


It does not mean anyone has to get off.
All the bus companies should do is try to make space.
In the case you presented the Bus driver did not.

I agree with all your other points and that both did not help the situation Syl.
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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:49 pm


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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Syl on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:53 pm

I think if I was hampering a wheelchair user because I had a pushchair, I would fold the pushchair up and make way...if that was possible.
If it wasn't, according to the link I posted, I think the driver could legally ask me to get off the bus if there was no other space for the disabled passenger in his wheelchair to be.

If I was in the wheelchair, I would wait for the next bus.
Obviously that man expected someone to get off the bus to make room....which is arrogant imo.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by eddie on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:56 pm

Most of the time though, there's either a) no child in the pram or b) the child or baby can get out and the pram can be folded. In rush hour, that disabled person could be sitting there for hours waiting for a space on a bus.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Original Quill on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:12 pm

Didge wrote:
Syl wrote:

I think it does.


https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/wheelchair-spaces-buses-must-be-priority-court-rules


"Bus companies must end ‘first come, first served’ policies, and do more to give priority to wheelchair users after a landmark Supreme Court ruling today.
The case of Paulley vs FirstGroup plc, backed by the Equality and Human Rights Commission, will mean wheelchair users should be given priority for wheelchair spaces on buses. Bus companies should have clear policies in place and give training to drivers to remove the barriers wheelchair users face when using buses.

Equality and Human Rights Commission Chair, David Isaac, called today’s verdict “a victory for disabled people’s rights” and “a hugely important decision, which has helped clarify the current state of the law, and will give confidence to thousands of disabled people in Britain to use public transport”.

The case centred on whether a ‘first come, first served’ policy was discriminatory against wheelchair users, or if bus companies could do more to ensure wheelchair spaces on buses are vacated when a wheelchair user enters the bus.
In February 2012, Doug Paulley, a wheelchair user, tried to board a FirstGroup bus from Wetherby to Leeds. The wheelchair space was being used by a mother with a pushchair and a sleeping child. She refused the driver's request to move or fold the pushchair and so the driver told Mr Paulley he could not board the bus.

Paulley successfully sued FirstGroup at Leeds County Court for unlawful discrimination against him due to his disability, but this was later overturned on appeal. The case was then heard by the Supreme Court, which has given its final verdict today. The Commission has supported Mr Paulley at the Court of Appeal, and at the Supreme Court."


Where does that say people have to get off who have paid?

I don't think the case poses that question.

What the law says is first priority must be given to the person with a disability, particularly when there are 'set-aside' spaces for wheelchairs. Where the displaced person goes is up to them. They are otherwise free to choose for themselves.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Didge on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:


Where does that say people have to get off who have paid?

I don't think the case poses that question.  

What the law says is first priority must be given to the person with a disability, particularly when there are 'set-aside' spaces for wheelchairs.  Where the displaced person goes is up to them.  They are otherwise free to choose for themselves.

Indeed and hence why a paying customer does not have to get off the bus. Only attempt to make room if possible. I mean what if this was someone elderly with a walker?
Who then takes preference?
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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Syl on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:17 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:


Where does that say people have to get off who have paid?

I don't think the case poses that question.  

What the law says is first priority must be given to the person with a disability, particularly when there are 'set-aside' spaces for wheelchairs.  Where the displaced person goes is up to them.  They are otherwise free to choose for themselves.

That's what I thought.
If push came to shove the wheelchair user is given priority even if a person with pushchair was sat in the space first.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by magica on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:25 pm

The pushchairs take up all the room. It says for disabled, doesnt say for pushchairs.

When mine were young I had to fold the pushchair up, we all did. They should too.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by eddie on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:31 pm

magica wrote:The pushchairs take up all the room. It says for disabled, doesnt say for pushchairs.

When mine were young I had to fold the pushchair up, we all did. They should too.

I always did, without having to be asked. It's common decency and respecting others. It's not rocket science or any kind of science come to that.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Syl on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:35 pm

magica wrote:The pushchairs take up all the room. It says for disabled, doesnt say for pushchairs.

When mine were young I had to fold the pushchair up, we all did. They should too.

Me too Mags...specifically picked the pushchairs with easy folding in mind.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by magica on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:41 pm

Syl wrote:
magica wrote:The pushchairs take up all the room. It says for disabled, doesnt say for pushchairs.

When mine were young I had to fold the pushchair up, we all did. They should too.

Me too Mags...specifically picked the pushchairs with easy folding in mind.

They were the relaxer buggies, they folded up to fit into the hold by the conductor. Nowadays they get on, don't fold their buggies, and take up all the room. Disabled in wheelchairs have priority, I think.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Original Quill on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:42 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I don't think the case poses that question.  

What the law says is first priority must be given to the person with a disability, particularly when there are 'set-aside' spaces for wheelchairs.  Where the displaced person goes is up to them.  They are otherwise free to choose for themselves.

Indeed and hence why a paying customer does not have to get off the bus. Only attempt to make room if possible. I mean what if this was someone elderly with a walker?
Who then takes preference?

If the elderly person is disabled and must us a walker, it's just like a wheelchair.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Didge on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:49 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

Indeed and hence why a paying customer does not have to get off the bus. Only attempt to make room if possible. I mean what if this was someone elderly with a walker?
Who then takes preference?

If the elderly person is disabled and must us a walker, it's just like a wheelchair.


So who would have to make space?

When one can still walk with assistance?
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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Original Quill on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:57 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

If the elderly person is disabled and must us a walker, it's just like a wheelchair.


So who would have to make space?

When one can still walk with assitance?

If a person can move only with assistance (wheelchair, walker or cane), that is a disabled person.

In this country, to aid in this issue, transit companies have a process which results in a Disability Pass. It settles all questions, plus the ride is free, and they are able to call for paratransit transportation if needed. It's a Federal government requirement, and since the Feds pay for 80% of all buses, the transit companies pay attention.

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by Didge on Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:02 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:


So who would have to make space?

When one can still walk with assitance?

If a person can move only with assistance (wheelchair, walker or cane), that is a disabled person.  

In this country, to aid in this issue, transit companies have a process which results in a Disability Pass.  It settles all questions, plus the ride is free, and they are able to call for paratransit transportation if needed.  It's a Federal government requirement, and since the Feds pay for 80% of all buses, the transit companies pay attention.


You never answered my question

Who then gives up the space?

Does the frail elderly woman that can clearly only walk with assistance and thus will tire when standing.

Or the person confined to the wheelchair?

To me the law should be based on equality to all.

If the bus is full, you wait for another. Or like this you have some go against being treated like everyone else and want to be priviliged over everyone else.

Now if its me, i would give up that seat, which is my active choice.
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Didge

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:48 pm



First off,  that bus driver needs some re-education in "customer relations"...

I would suggest taking her out the back with a couple of bricks, a phone book, and a rubber hose, and giving her a good 'talking to..'


Secondly,  there's an obvious problem with a minority of overly-self-entitled young mums --  are they really so lazy (and/or stupid..) that they can't fold up their prams and strollers to make more room when on a bus  ?

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Re: Bus Driver Launches ‘Appalling’ Tirade Against Disabled Passenger Trying To Board

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