Religion is it a choice ?

Page 1 of 6 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Go down

Religion is it a choice

 Religion is it a choice ? Vote_lcap82% Religion is it a choice ? Vote_rcap 82% 
[ 9 ]
 Religion is it a choice ? Vote_lcap18% Religion is it a choice ? Vote_rcap 18% 
[ 2 ]
 
Total Votes : 11

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:39 pm

Discuss

I think it is a choice
You can either choose to believe in a god/ Supream being or choose not to

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Ben Reilly on Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:46 pm

I disagree. I say this because I tried to hang onto my faith for a long time and eventually had to just face the fact that my heart was not in it.

_________________
"The face in the mirror won't stop!"

"When the music is your special friend / dance on fire as, it intends"

- Jim Morrison
Ben Reilly
Ben Reilly
Cowboy King. Dread Pirate of the Guadalupe. God of Thunder.

Posts : 27498
Join date : 2013-01-19
Age : 44
Location : Tesco's

http://www.newsfixboard.com

Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:50 pm

Korben Dallas wrote:Discuss

I think it is a choice
You can either choose to believe in a god/ Supream being or choose not to

Religion - the way one chooses to express ones faith is indeed a choice.

The faith that there is something there is not a choice.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:51 pm

The answer is yes and no, in a free society you do have a choice, in one where religion rules, your choices are limited.
What is wrong is how a child has no choice when spoon fed religion

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:53 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:I disagree. I say this because I tried to hang onto my faith for a long time and eventually had to just face the fact that my heart was not in it.
But you "tried to hang on to your faith" surely that`s was a choice
And on discovering you heart wasn`t in it choose not to believe

Some people's hearts are in it like sphinx who seems to think I am mocking her or trying to start a fight i really am not
i am genuinely interested as i never really understood why people feel drawn to it "spiritually"

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:53 pm

PhilDidge wrote:The answer is yes and no, in a free society you do have a choice, in one where religion rules, your choices are limited.
What is wrong is how a child has no choice when spoon fed religion

What about when a child is kept away from religion and finds themselves believing something anyway?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Ben Reilly on Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:54 pm

I think sphinx is trying to say she has a feeling about something divine or beyond comprehension that she can't (and probably wouldn't) wish away. I suppose I do too, in the sense that I'm somewhat mystified by the unanswered questions of life. We probably all have faith in something, actually -- my faith is in the ultimate (if not immediate) goodness of humanity.

_________________
"The face in the mirror won't stop!"

"When the music is your special friend / dance on fire as, it intends"

- Jim Morrison
Ben Reilly
Ben Reilly
Cowboy King. Dread Pirate of the Guadalupe. God of Thunder.

Posts : 27498
Join date : 2013-01-19
Age : 44
Location : Tesco's

http://www.newsfixboard.com

Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:55 pm

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:The answer is yes and no, in a free society you do have a choice, in one where religion rules, your choices are limited.
What is wrong is how a child has no choice when spoon fed religion

What about when a child is kept away from religion and finds themselves believing something anyway?

A very moot point, why not allow a child to understand all without bias and learn for themselves all religious and non religious view points without family or peer pressure?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:55 pm

PhilDidge wrote:The answer is yes and no, in a free society you do have a choice, in one where religion rules, your choices are limited.
What is wrong is how a child has no choice when spoon fed religion
But I was spoon fed religion Sunday school, at school
And I just don't get it never have

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:58 pm

It is a Choice
the Choice to be Ignorant

@Sphinx
I draw A Big line between Spirituality (the idea there is something undefined) and Religion (an organisation with set of rules and dogma)

I agree the Spirit is not a choice but where you apply your spirit is.

_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
veya_victaous
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 19095
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 36
Location : Australia

Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:59 pm

Korben Dallas wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:The answer is yes and no, in a free society you do have a choice, in one where religion rules, your choices are limited.
What is wrong is how a child has no choice when spoon fed religion
But I was spoon fed religion Sunday school, at school
And I just don't get it never have

I agree with you Korben, I have studied very closely many faiths, all make no sense because they contradict, hence they are man made. Does a diety exists, who knows, cant argue that one, though to me unlikely, as to me what ever created this world has to be some sort of sick joke if we look at it realistically if it was created for arguments sake by a deity. Nothing more than hardship and pain for many and then to top it off to make people fear what created you, makes no sense, sounds quite evil when you think about it.
As I say religion is a choice, but only if you have the choice, many people cannot

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:59 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:I think sphinx is trying to say she has a feeling about something divine or beyond comprehension that she can't (and probably wouldn't) wish away. I suppose I do too, in the sense that I'm somewhat mystified by the unanswered questions of life. We probably all have faith in something, actually -- my faith is in the ultimate (if not immediate) goodness of humanity.
Well, it wasn`t my intention to upset her as I am as I say interested in the whole dynamic



Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:01 am

Korben Dallas wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:I disagree. I say this because I tried to hang onto my faith for a long time and eventually had to just face the fact that my heart was not in it.
But you "tried to hang on to your faith" surely that`s was a choice
And on discovering you heart wasn`t in it choose not to believe

Some people's hearts are in it like sphinx who seems to think I am mocking her or trying to start a fight i really am not  
i am genuinely interested as i never really understood why people feel drawn to it "spiritually"

No you dont get it - Ben wanted to believe but no matter how hard he tried he could not.

Trust me my heart is not in it - I will actively avoid established centres of worship (all religions) but I have something at the core of me that does not change.

I would be quite happy not to "believe" but it is something I cannot change just as Ben would like to believe but cannot make it so.


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:05 am

veya_victaous wrote:It is a Choice
the Choice to be Ignorant

@Sphinx
I draw A Big line between Spirituality (the idea there is something undefined) and Religion (an organisation with set of rules and dogma)

I agree the Spirit is not a choice but where you apply your spirit is.
Ignorant is a tad harsh

But i agree with your second point

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:05 am

sphinx wrote:
Korben Dallas wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:I disagree. I say this because I tried to hang onto my faith for a long time and eventually had to just face the fact that my heart was not in it.
But you "tried to hang on to your faith" surely that`s was a choice
And on discovering you heart wasn`t in it choose not to believe

Some people's hearts are in it like sphinx who seems to think I am mocking her or trying to start a fight i really am not  
i am genuinely interested as i never really understood why people feel drawn to it "spiritually"

No you dont get it - Ben wanted to believe but no matter how hard he tried he could not.

Trust me my heart is not in it - I will actively avoid established centres of worship (all religions) but I have something at the core of me that does not change.  

I would be quite happy not to "believe" but it is something I cannot change just as Ben would like to believe but cannot make it so.


Veya and I discussed this before -- he made some very interesting points, I believe he called the video game Final Fantasy VII into them as well!

I think many people feel the need for some sort of spiritual fulfillment, and it's a shame that so many (if not most) of the religions available are full of contradictions and just flat-out insult your intelligence.

I'd have a far easier time accepting the Christian god if it wasn't taught, for example, that Hitler could go to Heaven for believing but that somebody like me could go to Hell just for finding it impossible to believe.

_________________
"The face in the mirror won't stop!"

"When the music is your special friend / dance on fire as, it intends"

- Jim Morrison
Ben Reilly
Ben Reilly
Cowboy King. Dread Pirate of the Guadalupe. God of Thunder.

Posts : 27498
Join date : 2013-01-19
Age : 44
Location : Tesco's

http://www.newsfixboard.com

Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:07 am

sphinx wrote:
Korben Dallas wrote:
But you "tried to hang on to your faith" surely that`s was a choice
And on discovering you heart wasn`t in it choose not to believe

Some people's hearts are in it like sphinx who seems to think I am mocking her or trying to start a fight i really am not  
i am genuinely interested as i never really understood why people feel drawn to it "spiritually"

No you dont get it - Ben wanted to believe but no matter how hard he tried he could not.

Trust me my heart is not in it - I will actively avoid established centres of worship (all religions) but I have something at the core of me that does not change.  

I would be quite happy not to "believe" but it is something I cannot change just as Ben would like to believe but cannot make it so.

No i dont get it Neutral ::dunno::  Smile 

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:08 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:I think sphinx is trying to say she has a feeling about something divine or beyond comprehension that she can't (and probably wouldn't) wish away. I suppose I do too, in the sense that I'm somewhat mystified by the unanswered questions of life. We probably all have faith in something, actually -- my faith is in the ultimate (if not immediate) goodness of humanity.

Actually I spend vast amounts of time on an internal debate between scientific logic that says the idea of "god" "religion" "a greater purpose" etc has to be a load of balderdash come up with by ignorant forebearers to explain what they did not understand and that although there are still mysteries science will eventually have an answer for everything - and part of me (a very smug part) saying that science does not even come close.

I would not wish it away because it is an integral part of me - but I certainly did not and do choose it.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:10 am

sphinx wrote:
Korben Dallas wrote:
But you "tried to hang on to your faith" surely that`s was a choice
And on discovering you heart wasn`t in it choose not to believe

Some people's hearts are in it like sphinx who seems to think I am mocking her or trying to start a fight i really am not  
i am genuinely interested as i never really understood why people feel drawn to it "spiritually"

No you dont get it - Ben wanted to believe but no matter how hard he tried he could not.

Trust me my heart is not in it - I will actively avoid established centres of worship (all religions) but I have something at the core of me that does not change.  

I would be quite happy not to "believe" but it is something I cannot change just as Ben would like to believe but cannot make it so.



Of course it is something you can change if you wanted to, at present you do not, I suspect fears plays a part in that, one of loss, not of your own either!

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:11 am

veya_victaous wrote:It is a Choice
the Choice to be Ignorant

@Sphinx
I draw A Big line between Spirituality (the idea there is something undefined) and Religion (an organisation with set of rules and dogma)

I agree the Spirit is not a choice but where you apply your spirit is.

That is what I have said - I do not for one millisecond think there is a big morgan freeman character we have to worship - but equally I know that we are not random chance either.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:11 am

That post of yours Sphinx in the updated rules thread is awesome. I must screen capture it and frame it. Go girlie!

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:13 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
sphinx wrote:

No you dont get it - Ben wanted to believe but no matter how hard he tried he could not.

Trust me my heart is not in it - I will actively avoid established centres of worship (all religions) but I have something at the core of me that does not change.  

I would be quite happy not to "believe" but it is something I cannot change just as Ben would like to believe but cannot make it so.


Veya and I discussed this before -- he made some very interesting points, I believe he called the video game Final Fantasy VII into them as well!

I think many people feel the need for some sort of spiritual fulfillment, and it's a shame that so many (if not most) of the religions available are full of contradictions and just flat-out insult your intelligence.

I'd have a far easier time accepting the Christian god if it wasn't taught, for example, that Hitler could go to Heaven for believing but that somebody like me could go to Hell just for finding it impossible to believe.
spiritual fulfillment is something I can't say I have had ,or indeed wanted or needed or missed

I have been told I have a singular outlook to life  :D 

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:15 am

Korben Dallas wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:It is a Choice
the Choice to be Ignorant

@Sphinx
I draw A Big line between Spirituality (the idea there is something undefined) and Religion (an organisation with set of rules and dogma)

I agree the Spirit is not a choice but where you apply your spirit is.
Ignorant is a tad harsh

But i agree with your second point

that is Very kind coming from Me Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
I would say, they Wilfully Abandon logic and reason to Pursue fairy tales because the concepts contained in reality are too hard for them. They Choose to 'Cease to Question' which for me is the first step to nothingness.

_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
veya_victaous
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 19095
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 36
Location : Australia

Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:16 am

PhilDidge wrote:
Korben Dallas wrote:
But I was spoon fed religion Sunday school, at school
And I just don't get it never have

I agree with you Korben, I have studied very closely many faiths, all make no sense because they contradict, hence they are man made. Does a diety exists, who knows, cant argue that one, though to me unlikely, as to me what ever created this world has to be some sort of sick joke if we look at it realistically if it was created for arguments sake by a deity. Nothing more than hardship and pain for many and then to top it off to make people fear what created you, makes no sense, sounds quite evil when you think about it.
As I say religion is a choice, but only if you have the choice, many people cannot  

No you have studied religions.

Faith is the feeling - religion is the attempt to explain the feeling.

Faith is not man made (and yes I do mean that both ways) but religion is most definitely - hence the contradiction.

Too often people use religion and faith as interchangeable but they have completely different meanings.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:16 am

If you don't believe...don't. But leave those who do alone. Simple.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:18 am

sphinx wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:It is a Choice
the Choice to be Ignorant

@Sphinx
I draw A Big line between Spirituality (the idea there is something undefined) and Religion (an organisation with set of rules and dogma)

I agree the Spirit is not a choice but where you apply your spirit is.

That is what I have said - I do not for one millisecond think there is a big morgan freeman character we have to worship - but equally I know that we are not random chance either.
thats my point you say "you know we are not random chance"

How do you know ? That's what I don't get
I am not trying to mock you or diminish what you believe

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:18 am

Warren Moon wrote:If you don't believe...don't.  But leave those who do alone.  Simple.

I would add, as a corollary -- don't try to force people to live by your religious and/or spiritual beliefs. If the only reason you can come up with to do something or not to do it is that it's part of your religion, the rest of us shouldn't have to take part in it.

_________________
"The face in the mirror won't stop!"

"When the music is your special friend / dance on fire as, it intends"

- Jim Morrison
Ben Reilly
Ben Reilly
Cowboy King. Dread Pirate of the Guadalupe. God of Thunder.

Posts : 27498
Join date : 2013-01-19
Age : 44
Location : Tesco's

http://www.newsfixboard.com

Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:19 am

Perfect....all sorted then.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:20 am

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

I agree with you Korben, I have studied very closely many faiths, all make no sense because they contradict, hence they are man made. Does a diety exists, who knows, cant argue that one, though to me unlikely, as to me what ever created this world has to be some sort of sick joke if we look at it realistically if it was created for arguments sake by a deity. Nothing more than hardship and pain for many and then to top it off to make people fear what created you, makes no sense, sounds quite evil when you think about it.
As I say religion is a choice, but only if you have the choice, many people cannot  

No you have studied religions.

Faith is the feeling - religion is the attempt to explain the feeling.

Faith is not man made (and yes I do mean that both ways) but religion is most definitely - hence the contradiction.

Too often people use religion and faith as interchangeable  but they have completely different meanings.


Faith is a belief, not a feeling, that is a mistake on your part as I once felt very much the same, as when that belief faded that feeling also faded, hence why I knew it was a choice.
I am not denying that within us is inbuilt faith, but it is being able to understand why and if you need to believe, as when you understand that you are no longer in conflict with yourself, as a person with faith always has conflict, they will deny this to the heavens but they do, life makes us that way

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:21 am

PhilDidge wrote:
sphinx wrote:

No you dont get it - Ben wanted to believe but no matter how hard he tried he could not.

Trust me my heart is not in it - I will actively avoid established centres of worship (all religions) but I have something at the core of me that does not change.  

I would be quite happy not to "believe" but it is something I cannot change just as Ben would like to believe but cannot make it so.



Of course it is something you can change if you wanted to, at present you do not, I suspect fears plays a part in that, one of loss, not of your own either!

See right there is what really pisses me off.

You would not dream of saying that to a gay person about their sexuality but are quite happy to throw it at me. I find it both hurtful and insulting to be repeatedly disbelieved and looked down upon.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:22 am

sphinx wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:It is a Choice
the Choice to be Ignorant

@Sphinx
I draw A Big line between Spirituality (the idea there is something undefined) and Religion (an organisation with set of rules and dogma)

I agree the Spirit is not a choice but where you apply your spirit is.

That is what I have said - I do not for one millisecond think there is a big morgan freeman character we have to worship - but equally I know that we are not random chance either.

People much underestimate the beauty of Chaos, Randomness can create the most majestic sequences.



jump to 2:30 in to see the Pretty patterens  :::grouch:: 

_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
veya_victaous
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 19095
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 36
Location : Australia

Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:22 am

Ben, the lady has a point.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:22 am

Warren Moon wrote:If you don't believe...don't.  But leave those who do alone.  Simple.
i am never dismissive of anybody believes
i just endeavor to understand them
That's a noble pursuit in my book

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:23 am

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Of course it is something you can change if you wanted to, at present you do not, I suspect fears plays a part in that, one of loss, not of your own either!

See right there is what really pisses me off.

You would not dream of saying that to a gay person about their sexuality but are quite happy to throw it at me.  I find it both hurtful and insulting to be repeatedly disbelieved and looked down upon.

Do you know why I do sphinx, because I have once felt as you did, where once my faith was strong, like you a feeling, but then that changed and how and why I can express on this, i that not fair to say?
That means I have once upon a time been feeling as you do now and hence why I can see both sides


Last edited by PhilDidge on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:23 am; edited 1 time in total

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:23 am

Here, Veya....you drinking turps?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:24 am

Warren Moon wrote:Ben, the lady has a point.

Totally agree, and I was about to say that but there were like five comments while I was writing it the first time.

_________________
"The face in the mirror won't stop!"

"When the music is your special friend / dance on fire as, it intends"

- Jim Morrison
Ben Reilly
Ben Reilly
Cowboy King. Dread Pirate of the Guadalupe. God of Thunder.

Posts : 27498
Join date : 2013-01-19
Age : 44
Location : Tesco's

http://www.newsfixboard.com

Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:30 am

Korben Dallas wrote:
sphinx wrote:

That is what I have said - I do not for one millisecond think there is a big morgan freeman character we have to worship - but equally I know that we are not random chance either.
thats my point you say "you know  we are not random chance"

How do you know ? That's what I don't get
I am not trying to mock you or diminish what you believe

This is what I keep trying to explain - how does a gay person know they fancy people of their own gender? How does a straight person know they fancy people of the opposite gender? I am straight - and I never gave it much thought because it is accepted as a norm. I also have an intensely deep faith which I have thought about a lot - but which I cannot get a handle on. I cannot even tell you what it is I have faith in because it is a feeling that does is not words if that makes sense.

I dont know why it is there I just know it is - and I cannot do anything about it.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:32 am

sphinx wrote:
Korben Dallas wrote:
sphinx wrote:

That is what I have said - I do not for one millisecond think there is a big morgan freeman character we have to worship - but equally I know that we are not random chance either.
thats my point you say "you know  we are not random chance"

How do you know ? That's what I don't get
I am not trying to mock you or diminish what you believe

This is what I keep trying to explain - how does a gay person know they fancy people of their own gender?  How does a straight person know they fancy people of the opposite gender?  I am straight - and I never gave it much thought because it is accepted as a norm.  I also have an intensely deep faith which I have thought about a lot - but which I cannot get a handle on.  I cannot even tell you what it is I have faith in because it is a feeling that does is not words if that makes sense.

I dont know why it is there I just know it is - and I cannot do anything about it.

I wouldn't try, if I were you. If it does more good than harm, it's a good thing.

_________________
"The face in the mirror won't stop!"

"When the music is your special friend / dance on fire as, it intends"

- Jim Morrison
Ben Reilly
Ben Reilly
Cowboy King. Dread Pirate of the Guadalupe. God of Thunder.

Posts : 27498
Join date : 2013-01-19
Age : 44
Location : Tesco's

http://www.newsfixboard.com

Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:34 am

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Of course it is something you can change if you wanted to, at present you do not, I suspect fears plays a part in that, one of loss, not of your own either!

See right there is what really pisses me off.

You would not dream of saying that to a gay person about their sexuality but are quite happy to throw it at me.  I find it both hurtful and insulting to be repeatedly disbelieved and looked down upon.
homosexuality is genetic and widespread evidence exists

god ,religion,spirituality not so much
That's based on belief and faith
so you comparison is flawed


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:34 am

sphinx wrote:
Korben Dallas wrote:
thats my point you say "you know  we are not random chance"

How do you know ? That's what I don't get
I am not trying to mock you or diminish what you believe

This is what I keep trying to explain - how does a gay person know they fancy people of their own gender?  How does a straight person know they fancy people of the opposite gender?  I am straight - and I never gave it much thought because it is accepted as a norm.  I also have an intensely deep faith which I have thought about a lot - but which I cannot get a handle on.  I cannot even tell you what it is I have faith in because it is a feeling that does is not words if that makes sense.

I dont know why it is there I just know it is - and I cannot do anything about it.


I am happy that you have faith though it seems you are in conflict as to why, thus it is not wrong of either to express my views on the matter or of people that do follow belief. So it is not personal, more trying to also understand you, as to why you do, and I see no wrong in that!

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:36 am

There is some evidence that there's an evolutionary advantage conferred from faith:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129528196

_________________
"The face in the mirror won't stop!"

"When the music is your special friend / dance on fire as, it intends"

- Jim Morrison
Ben Reilly
Ben Reilly
Cowboy King. Dread Pirate of the Guadalupe. God of Thunder.

Posts : 27498
Join date : 2013-01-19
Age : 44
Location : Tesco's

http://www.newsfixboard.com

Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:37 am

PhilDidge wrote:
sphinx wrote:

This is what I keep trying to explain - how does a gay person know they fancy people of their own gender?  How does a straight person know they fancy people of the opposite gender?  I am straight - and I never gave it much thought because it is accepted as a norm.  I also have an intensely deep faith which I have thought about a lot - but which I cannot get a handle on.  I cannot even tell you what it is I have faith in because it is a feeling that does is not words if that makes sense.

I dont know why it is there I just know it is - and I cannot do anything about it.


I am happy that you have faith though it seems you are in conflict as to why, thus it is not wrong of either to express my views on the matter or of people that do follow belief. So it is not personal, more trying to also understand you, as to why you do, and I see no wrong in that!
What he said  :D 

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:38 am

i have to go to bed will pick this up tomorrow

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:40 am

PhilDidge wrote:
sphinx wrote:

No you have studied religions.

Faith is the feeling - religion is the attempt to explain the feeling.

Faith is not man made (and yes I do mean that both ways) but religion is most definitely - hence the contradiction.

Too often people use religion and faith as interchangeable  but they have completely different meanings.


Faith is a belief, not a feeling, that is a mistake on your part as I once felt very much the same, as when that belief faded that feeling also faded, hence why I knew it was a choice.
I am not denying that within us is inbuilt faith, but it is being able to understand why and if you need to believe, as when you understand that you are no longer in conflict with yourself, as a person with faith always has conflict, they will deny this to the heavens but they do, life makes us that way

So you chose to have it fade? Lucky you.

You woke up one morning and decided that you did not want to believe what you believed so just turned it off.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:44 am

PhilDidge wrote:
sphinx wrote:

See right there is what really pisses me off.

You would not dream of saying that to a gay person about their sexuality but are quite happy to throw it at me.  I find it both hurtful and insulting to be repeatedly disbelieved and looked down upon.

Do you know why I do sphinx, because I have once felt as you did, where once my faith was strong, like you a feeling, but then that changed and how and why I can express on this, i that not fair to say?
That means I have once upon a time been feeling as you do now and hence why I can see both sides

My point is did you decide to change the feeling or did it change without you doing anything? I know its sounds silly but you get people who start out fancying one gender and then as they get older start fancying the other - its a spectrum.

I have tried to change what I feel - it has not worked.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:48 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:There is some evidence that there's an evolutionary advantage conferred from faith:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129528196


I have been reading much about this also Ben and is very interesting, but how would that pan out in the next 5000 years when people as today take more stock in science being the faith they follow?
We all have beliefs, whether what we define as supernatural or what we see as real, it is an inbuilt search for answers that we have to me, not that we actually have inbuilt faith, but the need to understand why we are here. Faith is just a part of that question, the faith is just one of the answers or conclusions we come to from that question as to why we are here. It is not what drives us to having faith, but that it is an explanation to life and death, and hence why people follow something that offers an explanation to what we all have no understanding of, why w are here.
Hence the claim to faith as a feeling is actually being driven by something else, a search for answers, the feeling you have is nothing more than something that makes these difficult questions that we cannot answer make sense to you, hence why you see it as a feeling.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:50 am

Korben Dallas wrote:
sphinx wrote:

See right there is what really pisses me off.

You would not dream of saying that to a gay person about their sexuality but are quite happy to throw it at me.  I find it both hurtful and insulting to be repeatedly disbelieved and looked down upon.
homosexuality is genetic and widespread evidence exists

god ,religion,spirituality not so much
That's based on belief and faith
so you comparison is flawed


The comparison is of the control an individual has - none.
I mean the classic challenge to someone saying homosexuality is a choice is to ask the straight person if they can fancy their own gender - normally greeted with a" dont be ridiculous" response. So I will apply that here as well - you obviously do not have faith - how about you try and choose to have it and see what happens.

Remember I am not talking about going through the motions - gay people can act out hetero relationships up to and including sex and parenthood - I am talking about choosing the deep feeling of faith. Can you choose to feel that?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:50 am

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Faith is a belief, not a feeling, that is a mistake on your part as I once felt very much the same, as when that belief faded that feeling also faded, hence why I knew it was a choice.
I am not denying that within us is inbuilt faith, but it is being able to understand why and if you need to believe, as when you understand that you are no longer in conflict with yourself, as a person with faith always has conflict, they will deny this to the heavens but they do, life makes us that way

So you chose to have it fade?  Lucky you.

You woke up one morning and decided that you did not want to believe what you believed so just turned it off.

No what I did was I stopped trying to seek answers to something I knew I would never find the answer to, life, I then was set free, I then knew my life was my own and I could make out of it what I wanted to

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:53 am

PhilDidge wrote:
sphinx wrote:

This is what I keep trying to explain - how does a gay person know they fancy people of their own gender?  How does a straight person know they fancy people of the opposite gender?  I am straight - and I never gave it much thought because it is accepted as a norm.  I also have an intensely deep faith which I have thought about a lot - but which I cannot get a handle on.  I cannot even tell you what it is I have faith in because it is a feeling that does is not words if that makes sense.

I dont know why it is there I just know it is - and I cannot do anything about it.


I am happy that you have faith though it seems you are in conflict as to why, thus it is not wrong of either to express my views on the matter or of people that do follow belief. So it is not personal, more trying to also understand you, as to why you do, and I see no wrong in that!

Oh yes there is conflict - tell me would I be conflicted if I could just choose?

I do not have a problem trying to explain I have a problem when people tell me it is choice - I have the same problem as does the gay person when people tell them they choose to be gay. Tell a gay its a lifestyle choice and it will not go down well - tell me its a belief choice and you get the same reaction.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:53 am

PhilDidge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:There is some evidence that there's an evolutionary advantage conferred from faith:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129528196


I have been reading much about this also Ben and is very interesting, but how would that pan out in the next 5000 years when people as today take more stock in science being the faith they follow?
We all have beliefs, whether what we define as supernatural or what we see as real, it is an inbuilt search for answers that we have to me, not that we actually have inbuilt faith, but the need to understand why we are here. Faith is just a part of that question, the faith is just one of the answers or conclusions we come to from that question as to why we are here. It is not what drives us to having faith, but that it is an explanation to life and death, and hence why people follow something that offers an explanation to what we all have no understanding of, why w are here.
Hence the claim to faith as a feeling is actually being driven by something else, a search for answers, the feeling you have is nothing more than something that makes these difficult questions that we cannot answer make sense to you, hence why you see it as a feeling.

That's an interesting point, and I just feel like so much has been raised by this thread, we could have three ongoing conversations at once about this! I have read that the human brain is essentially a pattern-recognizing machine that tries to make sense out of the world -- it's why we see "designed" shapes in random things like clouds.

Maybe, though, what is happening to sphinx is sort of the opposite? It sounds like she's got a feeling that she refuses to push into a neat category or explanation, and I can see how that would be confusing. At the same time, I have to admire the refusal to try to put a pat label on something when you don't feel it fits.

_________________
"The face in the mirror won't stop!"

"When the music is your special friend / dance on fire as, it intends"

- Jim Morrison
Ben Reilly
Ben Reilly
Cowboy King. Dread Pirate of the Guadalupe. God of Thunder.

Posts : 27498
Join date : 2013-01-19
Age : 44
Location : Tesco's

http://www.newsfixboard.com

Back to top Go down

 Religion is it a choice ? Empty Re: Religion is it a choice ?

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:56 am

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Do you know why I do sphinx, because I have once felt as you did, where once my faith was strong, like you a feeling, but then that changed and how and why I can express on this, i that not fair to say?
That means I have once upon a time been feeling as you do now and hence why I can see both sides

My point is did you decide to change the feeling or did it change without you doing anything?  I know its sounds silly but you get people who start out fancying one gender and then as they get older start fancying the other - its a spectrum.

I have tried to change what I feel - it has not worked.


The feeling that you have is an illusion, you have a desire, a desire to want your feelings to be right, this drives your feelings further, because you want to and do except the explanation of why there must be a reason why you are here or a meaning to you existing. That is what is driving this feeling, not faith, that only explains why the faith part is actually stopping you from finding the answers, because it will always cloud your view points from and stop you losing a feeling that not only makes you feel right but makes sense to you, as it fits the answers to questions neither of us know. Thus your feeling is an illusions, of which you are not unaware are feeding, because it fits what you do not understand

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 6 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum