Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

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Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:05 pm

Prominent evangelical Christians have signed on to a letter that calls out President Trump for his lack of condemnation of white supremacists, CNN reports. In the letter, which has been privately circulated among a coalition of pastors, the group has urged that the president condemn both white supremacy and the alt-right. “This movement has escaped your disapproval,” the letter reads. “We are praying, and call upon God's people to humble themselves and pray that you would take the bold and moral step to denounce the alt-right.” The letter’s signatories include former Southern Baptist Convention President Rev. Fred Luter, current SBC President Rev. Steve Gaines, as well as Rev. T.D. Jakes.


READ IT AT CNN

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:53 pm

Idea

Well...

To be fair..

Those conservative evangelical, 'charismatic' and pentecostal Christian groups do have a good number of Afro-American, Asian and "mixed-race" churchgoers among their congregations.

While those White supremacist/alt.right/neo-nazi clubs are definitely anti-Christian and quite irreligious in their beliefs and attitudes --  as regularly shown with their handful of faux_Christian supporters right here on this forum..

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:58 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Idea

Well...

To be fair..

Those conservative evangelical, 'charismatic' and pentecostal Christian groups do have a good number of Afro-American, Asian and "mixed-race" churchgoers among their congregations.

While those White supremacist/alt.right/neo-nazi clubs are definitely anti-Christian and quite irreligious in their beliefs and attitudes --  as regularly shown with their handful of faux_Christian supporters right here on this forum..


That is a fair point.

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:33 pm

There are some articles on how the American right has become markedly meaner as it has become less devoutly Christian.

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Original Quill on Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:39 pm

Conservatism is built upon an ideology of selfish elitism.  It's part of the recipe.

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:32 pm

Original Quill wrote:Conservatism is built upon an ideology of selfish elitism.  It's part of the recipe.



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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by smelly-bandit on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:13 pm


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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:14 pm

Clearly smells, he is not vocal enough for many Christians

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by smelly-bandit on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:15 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:There are some articles on how the American right has become markedly meaner as it has become less devoutly Christian.

a drift towards atheism increases meanness??

you wanna get yourself on the "religion in a nutshell" thread


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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by smelly-bandit on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:16 pm

Thorin wrote:Clearly smells, he is not vocal enough for many Christians

i thought Christians are the worst

utter scum according to Elizel

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:17 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:There are some articles on how the American right has become markedly meaner as it has become less devoutly Christian.

a drift towards atheism increases meanness??

you wanna get yourself on the "religion in a nutshell" thread


A drift toward atheism increases meanness in the right, not the left. The left is naturally inclined toward kindness, the right toward meanness, and thus the right needs the tempering influence of a hippie Sky Daddy like Jesus to keep them from turning things completely dog-eat-dog.

Without Jesus, they turn to someone like Trump, who doesn't have a kind bone in his body.

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:18 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Thorin wrote:Clearly smells, he is not vocal enough for many Christians

i thought Christians are the worst

utter scum according to Elizel


Some extremist Christians are the worst, just as Muslim extremists are and Jewish, and any extremist group

I do not think I have ever seen Eilzel claim all Christians are utter scum

As you already know he never has.

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:20 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

a drift towards atheism increases meanness??

you wanna get yourself on the "religion in a nutshell" thread


A drift toward atheism increases meanness in the right, not the left. The left is naturally inclined toward kindness, the right toward meanness, and thus the right needs the tempering influence of a hippie Sky Daddy like Jesus to keep them from turning things completely dog-eat-dog.

Without Jesus, they turn to someone like Trump, who doesn't have a kind bone in his body.


Tell that to those who have lived under Communism and socialism

Do you know want Ben, sometimes you are clueless

Do you know how many have suffered under the misguided belief of leftism?

Give me a centralist any day

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:24 pm

Thorin wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

a drift towards atheism increases meanness??

you wanna get yourself on the "religion in a nutshell" thread


A drift toward atheism increases meanness in the right, not the left. The left is naturally inclined toward kindness, the right toward meanness, and thus the right needs the tempering influence of a hippie Sky Daddy like Jesus to keep them from turning things completely dog-eat-dog.

Without Jesus, they turn to someone like Trump, who doesn't have a kind bone in his body.


Tell that to those who live under Communism and socialism

Do you know want Ben, sometimes you are clueless

Do you know how many have suffered under the misguided belief of leftism?

Give me a centralist any day

Okay. In communist Cuba, they have nationalized health care. We don't have that in the U.S. I want you to think about what it would feel like to never be sure, when you got sick, if you could get care.

The left as a whole does not have to apologize for Stalin any more than the right as a whole has to apologize for Hitler, that's a stupid argument and I think we should move past it already. You know that the kind of leftism I advocate for more closely resembles the government of New Zealand than the government of Pol Pot, for Christ's sake.

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:29 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Tell that to those who live under Communism and socialism

Do you know want Ben, sometimes you are clueless

Do you know how many have suffered under the misguided belief of leftism?

Give me a centralist any day

Okay. In communist Cuba, they have nationalized health care. We don't have that in the U.S. I want you to think about what it would feel like to never be sure, when you got sick, if you could get care.

The left as a whole does not have to apologize for Stalin any more than the right as a whole has to apologize for Hitler, that's a stupid argument and I think we should move past it already. You know that the kind of leftism I advocate for more closely resembles the government of New Zealand than the government of Pol Pot, for Christ's sake.


You want me to think about their health care over that over their non existant human rights?

Seriously in Cuba

So in Cuba when sick, you get help, but cannot complain as you end up in jail?

Well nobody has asked you to apologize for failed socialist systems. Only that you recognize that they have all failed and been totalitarian.

So with New Zealand, you advocate something thus more central, neither left or right

When are apologists like you going to condemn those poor on the left, as I condemn those poor on the right?

I mean for fuck sake, you invoke Cuba, which its citzens are denied most basic human rights?

Are you kidding me?

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:33 pm

I also invoke New Zealand, which is definitely farther toward the left than my home country. I brought up Cuba to underscore that even in places like that, life can be better in some ways than in a place like the U.S.

And okay, if anybody had any doubt about it before, I totally condemn Stalin and Pol Pot Smile

(I tend to assume nearly everybody condemns them)

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:36 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:I also invoke New Zealand, which is definitely farther toward the left than my home country. I brought up Cuba to underscore that even in places like that, life can be better in some ways than in a place like the U.S.

And okay, if anybody had any doubt about it before, I totally condemn Stalin and Pol Pot Smile

(I tend to assume nearly everybody condemns them)


Well your country is very right wing, even democratically is it not.

So New Zealand would be very central

Sorry, how on earth can you claim life is some how better in Cuba than the US?

Seriously, when 99.9% of Cuban citizens are denied human rights?

I know you condemn Pol Pot and Stalin and as seen make excuses for now Cuba, claimings its health system makes it okay. How about Mao, Tito, Castro etc?

I mean WTF

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:37 pm

I said its health care system is okay, not its government. Please don't put words in my mouth -- I was very clear.

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Original Quill on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:39 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Conservatism is built upon an ideology of selfish elitism.  It's part of the recipe.


Not a very persuasive piece of video propaganda.  What this video really says is that corruption is the  parent of poverty.  I needn't remind you that corruption is just another form of selfishness, which in turn is the core of right-wing ideology.

One of the best examples of socialism in action is the United States Military.  It is an organization wholly owned by the people, served by the people, paid for by the people, and serving the people.  Many of the innovations of modern society come from the military.  The whole enterprise of human resources was created by the US Military.  Many innovations in law are started in the Military, and later handed down the the civil courts.  Many, many technical inventions were made by the US Military, then given over to civilian society.  Many medical and biological advancements are attributable to the US Military, thence given to society.  US Military men and women, attached to NASA, put a man on the moon.  The list goes on and on of achievements of this essentially socialist, non-capitalist institution.

To be sure, independent contractors deliver the production of units once the US Military has devised and designed them.  But always to the specifications of the Military...And where did those specifications come from?  Right...the socialist US Military.

There seems to be a human instinct that says, if you only want things on a passing fancy, let the market take care of it; but if you really, really want something to get done, embrace it, hold on to it, and let it be done with authority by government.  In other words, socialism = yourself; and if you really want something done, do it yourself!  

That is true of the police, of the fire departments, and all essential services.  So it's not abnormal to see the Military, a socialist institution, taking the lead in so many areas.  Any system can fail if it is infected with corruption--this video on Venezuela makes that point, and no more--but keep it clean and upright, and socialism is a far superior form of organization than the chancy market, incentivized by greed and selfishness...which, after all, is right next door to corruption.


Last edited by Original Quill on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:39 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:I said its health care system is okay, not its government. Please don't put words in my mouth -- I was very clear.


So the bases of how the left is okay is based not on human rights but on its health care system?

Do you really want to run with that argument.

I mean the health care system in Saudi Arabia is great. Does that make it a great example of Leftism?

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:41 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Not a very persuasive piece of video propaganda.  What this video portends is that corruption is the  parent of poverty.  I needn't remind you that corruption is just another form of selfishness, which in turn is the core of right-wing ideology.



So explain to me why socialism in any country, has always failed and failed to provide human rights?

I can tell you very easily so.

As it fails to understand humans.

I will give you a clue.

What is a humans first basic need?


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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:42 pm

Socialism gave us the Internet! https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/yes-government-researchers-really-did-invent-the-internet/

Capitalists don't tend to make gigantic investments in infrastructure when they're not even sure what people will do with it, let alone how they'll profit from it.

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:43 pm

Thorin wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:I said its health care system is okay, not its government. Please don't put words in my mouth -- I was very clear.


So the bases of how the left is okay is based not on human rights but on its health care system?

Do you really want to run with that argument.

I mean the health care system in Saudi Arabia is great. Does that make it a great example of Leftism?

No, you brainless dolt -- it makes it a great example of a health care system. How are you not following this?

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:44 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:Socialism gave us the Internet! https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/yes-government-researchers-really-did-invent-the-internet/

Capitalists don't tend to make gigantic investments in infrastructure when they're not even sure what people will do with it, let alone how they'll profit from it.


Sorry, but where did I make a view on capitalism Ben?

You made a claim on socialism, based on the health care of Cuba, ignoring its one of the worst human rights absuers.

I stated wuite correctly that Saudi, has a great health care system.

Does that make it a good example of the left?

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:44 pm

Thorin wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Socialism gave us the Internet! https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/yes-government-researchers-really-did-invent-the-internet/

Capitalists don't tend to make gigantic investments in infrastructure when they're not even sure what people will do with it, let alone how they'll profit from it.


Sorry, but where did I make a view on capitalism Ben?

You made a claim on socialism, based on the health care of Cuba, ignoring its one of the worst human rights absuers.

I stated wuite correctly that Saudi, has a great health care system.

Does that make it a good example of the left?

No, you brainless dolt -- it makes it a great example of a health care system. How are you not following this?

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:45 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Thorin wrote:


So the bases of how the left is okay is based not on human rights but on its health care system?

Do you really want to run with that argument.

I mean the health care system in Saudi Arabia is great. Does that make it a great example of Leftism?

No, you brainless dolt -- it makes it a great example of a health care system. How are you not following this?


Ahh when all else fails the insults start.

So lets forget about all the human right abuses, all you care about is health care.

Tell me about the health care of political prisoners in Cuba and Saudi then?

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:46 pm

Thorin wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Thorin wrote:


So the bases of how the left is okay is based not on human rights but on its health care system?

Do you really want to run with that argument.

I mean the health care system in Saudi Arabia is great. Does that make it a great example of Leftism?

No, you brainless dolt -- it makes it a great example of a health care system. How are you not following this?


Ahh when all else fails the insults start.

So lets forget about all the human right abuses, all you care about is health care.

Tell me about the health care of political prisoners in Cuba and Saudi then?

It sucks. It is possible to have a horrible government that still gets a few things (like health care) right. Did I just blow your mind? Laughing

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:47 pm

By the way, you must be getting a great workout dodging my point like this.

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Original Quill on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:48 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Not a very persuasive piece of video propaganda.  What this video portends is that corruption is the  parent of poverty.  I needn't remind you that corruption is just another form of selfishness, which in turn is the core of right-wing ideology.



So explain to me why socialism in any country, has always failed and failed to provide human rights?

It is corruption you are looking at.  And corruption is built upon selfishness.  And what is the capitalist market built on?  Selfishness.

Right now, in Donald Trump and his administration, you are witnessing a model of how capitalism feeds directly into corruption.  And the corruption, like an infection, taints all that it touches.  As soon as you legitimize greed in your model, you have sown the seeds of corruption.  Profit = poverty.


Last edited by Original Quill on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:48 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Ahh when all else fails the insults start.

So lets forget about all the human right abuses, all you care about is health care.

Tell me about the health care of political prisoners in Cuba and Saudi then?

It sucks. It is possible to have a horrible government that still gets a few things (like health care) right. Did I just blow your mind? Laughing


So they do not have a health care open to all do they Ben?

So how is their health care right, when they torture prisoners and allow people to suffer without health care?

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:49 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:


So explain to me why socialism in any country, has always failed and failed to provide human rights?

Corruption.  And corruption is built upon selfishness.  And what is the capitalist market built on?  Selfishness.

Right now, in Donald Trump and his administration, you are witnessing a model of how capitalism feeds directly into corruption.  And the corruption, like an infection, taints all that it touches.  As soon as you legitimize greed in your model, you have sown the seeds of corruption.  Profit = poverty.


I care little about the Trumpton.

I asked, why socialism has always failed in every case it has been appllied.

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:50 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:By the way, you must be getting a great workout dodging my point like this.


What points have i dodged?

Or is it more the case you are chasing your own tail?

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Original Quill on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:56 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Corruption.  And corruption is built upon selfishness.  And what is the capitalist market built on?  Selfishness.

Right now, in Donald Trump and his administration, you are witnessing a model of how capitalism feeds directly into corruption.  And the corruption, like an infection, taints all that it touches.  As soon as you legitimize greed in your model, you have sown the seeds of corruption.  Profit = poverty.


I care little about the Trumpton.

What you care about is irrelevant. Trump is the classic example of the failure of free market capitalism. The only reason it hasn't happened before, is because of regulations and government intervention in the market. The Supreme Court in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission (2010) allowed big capital to take over the democratic process, and finally greed took hold of the Republican Party.

You have already seen income disparity. And today, less than 1% of the people own about 99% of the assets. Now you will begin to see the deterioration of the nation, just like Venezuela.

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:58 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:


I care little about the Trumpton.

What you care about is irrelevant.  Trump is the classic example of the failure of free market capitalism.  The only reason it hasn't happened before, is because of regulations and government intervention in the market.   The Supreme Court in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission (2010) allowed big capital to take over the democratic process, and finally greed took hold of the Republican Party.

You have already seen income disparity.  And today, less than 1% of the people own about 99% of the assets.  Now you will begin to see the deterioration of the nation, just like Venezuela.


Let me repeat.

I do not care about Trumpton, but even in the US today under him, people have a mass more rights than any socialist nation in history.

I mean that is a sad tale, that an idiot such as Trump is, has more rights than the lefts best socialist utopia in history.


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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:58 pm

Thorin wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:By the way, you must be getting a great workout dodging my point like this.


What points have i dodged?

Or is it more the case you are chasing your own tail?

The point that even the worst communists have done some good. Cuba (outside of its political prisoners, thank you) does a great job with health care. You could even go so far as to credit Stalin with defeating Hitler as an example of some good he did.

And besides, I only threw out Cuban health care as an example -- you know I don't support Cuban-style leftism, so I wish you'd stop trying to beat me over the head with the worst of the left.

The fact that they are, or were, bad governments doesn't make them somehow more left than other good leftist governments.

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:08 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Thorin wrote:


What points have i dodged?

Or is it more the case you are chasing your own tail?

The point that even the worst communists have done some good. Cuba (outside of its political prisoners, thank you) does a great job with health care. You could even go so far as to credit Stalin with defeating Hitler as an example of some good he did.

And besides, I only threw out Cuban health care as an example -- you know I don't support Cuban-style leftism, so I wish you'd stop trying to beat me over the head with the worst of the left.

The fact that they are, or were, bad governments doesn't make them somehow more left than other good leftist governments.


So your point is, that even the worst nazi's have done some good?

Correct?

That Nazi Germany, was great for its own "German" citizens in how it placed their interestes first.

Is that what you are saying, when you invoke huma right abusive nations?

Then you say, that we must then take into account that the Soviet Union, helped defeat the Nazi's. Even though they jumped into bed with Hitler in 1939, denying the self determination of not only the Polish people, but the Latvians, the Lithuanians, the Estonians and Finish people. That for two years Stalin, helped ensure Hitler could expand his war, because he wanted to pander to him, like Chamberlain in the UK.

So why throw in cuban style health care, as a means to claim socialism is great based off a nation, that is a piss poor human rights abuser. You are claiming that this then is a case for good socialism.

Look Ben, stop being a fool. There has been far more socialist murdereous socialist nations, by a long margin, than there has been far right. The nazi's top all of them because they hated people far more than socialists do. Which is where your problem starts. Both groups are born from a dislike and hate of others. Hence whyevery socialisty state has been totalitarian

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Original Quill on Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:10 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

What you care about is irrelevant.  Trump is the classic example of the failure of free market capitalism.  The only reason it hasn't happened before, is because of regulations and government intervention in the market.   The Supreme Court in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission (2010) allowed big capital to take over the democratic process, and finally greed took hold of the Republican Party.

You have already seen income disparity.  And today, less than 1% of the people own about 99% of the assets.  Now you will begin to see the deterioration of the nation, just like Venezuela.


Let me repeat.

I do not care about Trumpton, but even in the US today under him, people have a mass more rights than any socialist nation in history.

I mean that is a sad tale, that an idiot such as Trump is, has more rights than the lefts best socialist utopia in history.

Let me repeat: what you care about is irrelevant. Several of us do care about corruption, even if you do not. Trump is a working model of the deterioration of capitalism into despotism, through the mechanism of selfishness.

Socialism, by contrast, is all the people working in concert, and nobody being able to singularly take over the normalization process. We saw this once before with the Great Depression, and we put in place the public protections necessary to make us safe.

Now the same greed comes down in the form of the Republican sponsored Commodity Futures Modernization Act (forbade regulation of derivatives) and the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, or Financial Services Modernization Act, (eliminated New Deal barriers to mergers of stockbrokers, commercial and investment banks and insurance companies). Combined, these laws had the effect of abolishing all of the significant rules put in place at the time of the Great Depression designed to prevent a repeat.

Now, look closely at this new Tax bill that Trump is proposing.

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:12 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Let me repeat.

I do not care about Trumpton, but even in the US today under him, people have a mass more rights than any socialist nation in history.

I mean that is a sad tale, that an idiot such as Trump is, has more rights than the lefts best socialist utopia in history.

Let me repeat: what you care about is irrelevant.  Several of us do care about corruption, even if you do not.  Trump is a working model of the deterioration of capitalism into despotism, through the mechanism of selfishness.

Socialism, by contrast, is all the people working in concert, and nobody being able to singularly take over the normalization process.  We saw this once before with the Great Depression, and we put in place the public protections necessary to make us safe.  

Now the same greed comes down in the form of the Republican sponsored Commodity Futures Modernization Act (forbade regulation of derivatives) and the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, or Financial Services Modernization Act, (eliminated New Deal barriers to mergers of stockbrokers, commercial and investment banks and insurance companies).  Combined, these laws had the effect of abolishing all of the significant rules put in place at the time of the Great Depression designed to prevent a repeat.

Now, look closely at this new Tax bill that Trump is proposing.


You keep speaking about ideals and not speaking about socialism in practice

Hence why i said that socialism will never work in practice, as it fails to undertsand humans. It instead tries poorly to control humans.

So I ask again, what is the first basic need of any human?

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Original Quill on Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:16 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Let me repeat: what you care about is irrelevant.  Several of us do care about corruption, even if you do not.  Trump is a working model of the deterioration of capitalism into despotism, through the mechanism of selfishness.

Socialism, by contrast, is all the people working in concert, and nobody being able to singularly take over the normalization process.  We saw this once before with the Great Depression, and we put in place the public protections necessary to make us safe.  

Now the same greed comes down in the form of the Republican sponsored Commodity Futures Modernization Act (forbade regulation of derivatives) and the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, or Financial Services Modernization Act, (eliminated New Deal barriers to mergers of stockbrokers, commercial and investment banks and insurance companies).  Combined, these laws had the effect of abolishing all of the significant rules put in place at the time of the Great Depression designed to prevent a repeat.

Now, look closely at this new Tax bill that Trump is proposing.


You keep speaking about ideals and not speaking about socialism in practice

Hence why i asked that socialism will never work in practice, as it fails to undertsand humans. It instead tries poorly to control

I've given you very succinct examples of socialism not only working, but putting in superior performances to free-market capitalism. Socialism is far superior, and much more dignified, than the dog fights outside the butcher shop...which I think is a fair description of market theory.

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:20 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:


You keep speaking about ideals and not speaking about socialism in practice

Hence why i asked that socialism will never work in practice, as it fails to undertsand humans. It instead tries poorly to control

I've given you very succinct examples of socialism not only working, but putting in superior performances to free-market capitalism.  Socialism is far superior, and much more dignified, than the dog fights outside the butcher shop...which I think is a fair description of market theory.


You are avoiding my question and even worse going off an idiot in Trump

Socialism fails, as it fails to understand humans and why it always has required forced control in order for it to function and then later fail..

I fail to see how when you force people against their will is superior.

You seriously fail badly to psychologically understand humans

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Original Quill on Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:35 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I've given you very succinct examples of socialism not only working, but putting in superior performances to free-market capitalism.  Socialism is far superior, and much more dignified, than the dog fights outside the butcher shop...which I think is a fair description of market theory.


You are avoiding my question and even worse going off an idiot in Trump

Your questions are pointless and irrelevant.  If you can't make your own arguments, yourself, then get the fook out of the way and let better men pick up the load.

Thorin wrote:Socialism fails, as it fails to understand humans and why it always has required forced control in order for it to function and then later fail..

I fail to see how when you force people against their will is superior.

You seriously fail badly to psychologically understand humans

Socialism succeeds precisely because it is a recognition that man is a social being.  Contrary to the individualistic assumptions of free-market capitalism, we all live and thrive in communities.  The bond that unites us is care and concern for each other; quite the opposite of the selfish assumptions of capitalists.  

There is nothing coercive about socialism; it is all entirely cooperative.  What is coercive is (or was) the way that capitalists made 5- and 6-year old children work in squalid conditions, and 15-hour days, for bread crumbs.  Only when government intervened with public protections on labor and production, did conditions become humane.

Your sick, pathetic depiction of human collective living is what makes people puke...those, that is, who are not working to make misery turn a profit for them...like the pharma industry.  Rolling Eyes

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:

Your questions are pointless and irrelevant.  If you can't make your own arguments, yourself, then get the fook out of the way and let better men pick up the load.

Thorin wrote:Misdirection yet again.

I asked you one simple question on the basuic understanding of humans.
So I will ask again and expand this to any animal.
How is that for you?

Socialism succeeds precisely it is a recognition that man is a social being.  Contrary to the individualistic assumptions of free-market capitalism, we all live and thrive in communities.  The bond that unites us is care and concern fo each other; quite the opposite of the selfish assumptions of capitalists.  
Thorin wrote: How can socialism suceed when it never has?
If the bond is to care for others, then why do you always shy away from helping others?
Not born within the demographics of the US?
So if you care, then you would not sit by and allow people to suffer. Example Syria and yet you do and under every socialist system, a mass of people suffer.

There is nothing coercive about socialism; it is all entirely cooperative.  What is coercive is (or was) the way that capitalists made 5- and 6-year old children work in squalid conditions, and 15-hour days, for bread crumbs.  Only when government intervened with public protections on labor and production, did conditions become humane.
Thorin wrote:] Actually socialism is perverse. It requires all people to think the same and not be free thinking. That they should all not be individual, which goes against everything that is evolutionary. There is always going to be a 5% that will always be controlling within any group of animals. Even more so when you cram them into small spaces. That level of criminality will increase. It took conservative goverments to change things in the US and Britain, not lefties on this.

Your sick, pathetic depiction of human collective living is what makes people puke...those, that is, who are not working to make misery turn a profit for them...like the pharma industry.  Rolling Eyes

No , I just actually understand humans and now you are getting emotional.

Hence I ask, what is the first basic need of any human?

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Original Quill on Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:00 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Your questions are pointless and irrelevant.  If you can't make your own arguments, yourself, then get the fook out of the way and let better men pick up the load.



Socialism succeeds precisely it is a recognition that man is a social being.  Contrary to the individualistic assumptions of free-market capitalism, we all live and thrive in communities.  The bond that unites us is care and concern fo each other; quite the opposite of the selfish assumptions of capitalists.  


There is nothing coercive about socialism; it is all entirely cooperative.  What is coercive is (or was) the way that capitalists made 5- and 6-year old children work in squalid conditions, and 15-hour days, for bread crumbs.  Only when government intervened with public protections on labor and production, did conditions become humane.


Your sick, pathetic depiction of human collective living is what makes people puke...those, that is, who are not working to make misery turn a profit for them...like the pharma industry.  Rolling Eyes

No , I just actually understand humans and now you are getting emotional.

Hence I ask, what is the first basic need of any human?

Actually, it's not emotional so much as emphatic.  You repeat yourself so much, and the errors you repeat were all in the original clip.  I get tired--and perhaps a bit impatient--going over the same stuff.  When all is said and done, my first analysis of the video was spot on, and the correct one.

I find as I go over your "yeah, buts..." that I am not dealing with one who needs clarification, but with one who, tho he has no answers, refuses to follow the point.  So, I state things more emphatically, until I see what you are doing.

Anyway, unless you have anything different, I'll take some time to look at other threads.

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:07 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:

No , I just actually understand humans and now you are getting emotional.

Hence I ask, what is the first basic need of any human?

Actually, it's not emotional so much as emphatic.  You repeat yourself so much, and the errors you repeat were all in the original clip.  I get tired--and perhaps a bit impatient--going over the same stuff.  When all is said and done, my first analysis of the video was spot on, and the correct one.

I find as I go over your "yeah, buts..." that I am not dealing with one who needs clarification, but with one who, tho he has no answers, refuses to follow the point.  So, I state things more emphatically, until I see what you are doing.

Anyway, unless you have anything different, I'll take some time to look at other threads.


1) You invoke now a subjective view and claim I am in error, by yet again not even beginning to understand the psychology of humans. As now you have diverted to talk about me. Under a socialist world view, you would never allow others to suffer elsewhere, but you do geographically.

2) So what you are doing is conceeding, as you know you are on a subject out of your depth, by saying you will look at other threads. 

I take that as a compliment Quill, that you are running away

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by smelly-bandit on Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:19 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

a drift towards atheism increases meanness??

you wanna get yourself on the "religion in a nutshell" thread


A drift toward atheism increases meanness in the right, not the left. The left is naturally inclined toward kindness, the right toward meanness, and thus the right needs the tempering influence of a hippie Sky Daddy like Jesus to keep them from turning things completely dog-eat-dog.

Without Jesus, they turn to someone like Trump, who doesn't have a kind bone in his body.

The left is inclined towards kindness??

You wanna tell horse face jess Phillips that mate, she's a Lefty and will disagree with you most vehemently, she says the left are the worst.

Without Jesus, they turn to someone like Trump?

Errrrrr don't know how to tell you this but trump is a God fearing man, ever heard him talk??

Always mentioning and thanking God

Shit, he swore on TWO bibles, that's how much mad love he got for god

Think you might be confused

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:06 pm

The NHS was created from the framework set out by the conservative govt in the 'White paper' they put to parliament...


Even the NAZIS had a form of national healthcare system...


And if Americans were to spend less of their money on junk food that makes them fat and unhealthy, and instead pay it in taxes towards a USA NHS, then they would easily have a funded USA NHS system as well as being much less likely to need to use the system as they would be much less fat and much more healthy...!!!


Laughing



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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:52 am

Tommy Monk wrote:The NHS was created from the framework set out by the conservative govt in the 'White paper' they put to parliament...



Laughing




Really?

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:57 am

Yes!



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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Guest on Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:58 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Yes!




Try again

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Re: Evangelicals Urge Trump to Denounce White Supremacists

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:09 am

http://navigator.health.org.uk/content/national-health-service-white-paper-was-published-march-1944-2


https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2015/03/hugh-byrne-its-time-to-tear-down-the-cult-of-bevan-in-the-nhs.html


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