the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

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the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by smelly-bandit on Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:45 am

First topic message reminder :

im sure this will be considered spamming and ill no doubt be immediately banned (again) already had the first warning shots from lord foul and eddie

however, if a Donald trump tantrum thread is allowed then surely an appreciation thread should be allowed??


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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:38 am

HoratioTarr wrote:People are like fucking sheep.   If it's the 'in thing' to hate a particular politician that's what they do.   The reality is, all politicians are self serving lying bumbling puppets.   In Sweden, they're all happily going into the fold with their voluntary microchips.   It's being sold to them under the guise of ease of access to all they covet.   And so they have you.   They own you.  They can access your every move and purchase.   Smart TV's spy on you.  Ask Alexa.  Something's coming, and it's not nice.


Are not the majority of humans?

Are not all humans selfish, based on tribal thinking?

Where this tribal thinking extends at the smallest at family level to that at nationalistic levels?

How many humans care intrinsically about all life?

Can you claim that you do and that you yourself do not follow beliefs you have come to learn yourself?

Is that not being a sheep to other beliefs?

So Politicians have their own self interests at heart, just the same as any family, the reality of the selfish nature of humans. Its quite hypocritical to point this out in some of those leaders, when we are as a species inherently selfish.

So the question to ask is whether you want order or anarchy?

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Miffs2 on Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:37 am

HoratioTarr wrote:People are like fucking sheep.   If it's the 'in thing' to hate a particular politician that's what they do.   The reality is, all politicians are self serving lying bumbling puppets.   In Sweden, they're all happily going into the fold with their voluntary microchips.   It's being sold to them under the guise of ease of access to all they covet.   And so they have you.   They own you.  They can access your every move and purchase.   Smart TV's spy on you.  Ask Alexa.  Something's coming, and it's not nice.

Absolutely right. The last thing anyone should have is Alexa or a smart meter.
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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:44 am

Miffs2 wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:People are like fucking sheep.   If it's the 'in thing' to hate a particular politician that's what they do.   The reality is, all politicians are self serving lying bumbling puppets.   In Sweden, they're all happily going into the fold with their voluntary microchips.   It's being sold to them under the guise of ease of access to all they covet.   And so they have you.   They own you.  They can access your every move and purchase.   Smart TV's spy on you.  Ask Alexa.  Something's coming, and it's not nice.

Absolutely right. The last thing anyone should have is Alexa or a smart meter.

Do you not follow and support beliefs you believe in Nems?

Something only owns you, if it is able to sway your decisions in every conceivable way. Yes some people are easily swayed or easily brainwashed, but its very insulting to think people cannot make their own decisions against influence given.

There is no doubt that sales people use pitches to entice people to buy their items, but is that not your decision when you do?

The question to ask, is are you saying you are afraid and cannot see past such poor subtle sales Technics?

So why would you fear something, if unless you fear you have no control of yourself?

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:19 am

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:I'm a Trump supporter and I voted Brexit

Laughing

And you're proud to be a braindead moron...

Good onya,  VoD  !!!

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:27 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
What is "appreaction" anyway? Is it like covfefe?

Cool

I believe it's a clear indication of that muddled way in which extreme right wing brains 'function' (or don't function, rather..).

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:28 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:I'm a Trump supporter and I voted Brexit

Laughing

And you're proud to be a braindead moron...

Good onya,  VoD  !!!

No I am not - I have every right to support President Trump - and Brexit was in my opinion the best thing for my country . Live and let live we all have different likes don't we .

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:33 am

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Laughing

And you're proud to be a braindead moron...

Good onya,  VoD  !!!

No I am not - I have every right to support President Trump - and Brexit was in my opinion the best thing for my country . Live and let live we all have different likes don't we .

Indeed, I may not agree with some of your views, but it does not make you a bad person. In fact you are often caring on many things. I would rather reason in how I think some views you hold are wrong to me. There are many people who voted for Trump for a multitude of reasons, they are not all racists, far from it. Many are controlled by fear arguments, its whether those arguments have an bases in rationality. They don't. They often seek to push internal problems by blaming certain groups. That is scapegoating and ceases to actual  tackle problems. History has always shown that is a poor argument. Ignoring we only progressed and changed ourselves by learning to see what views, we once held were poor and wrong.

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:10 am

Thorin wrote:
Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:

No I am not - I have every right to support President Trump - and Brexit was in my opinion the best thing for my country . Live and let live we all have different likes don't we .

Indeed, I may not agree with some of your views, but it does not make you a bad person. In fact you are often caring on many things. I would rather reason in how I think some views you hold are wrong to me. There are many people who voted for Trump for a multitude of reasons, they are not all racists, far from it. Many are controlled by fear arguments, its whether those arguments have an bases in rationality. They don't. They often seek to push internal problems by blaming certain groups. That is scapegoating and ceases to actual  tackle problems. History has always shown that is a poor argument. Ignoring we only progressed and changed ourselves by learning to see what views, we once held were poor and wrong.

Thanks - change is always going to cause uncertainty - but nobody has a crystal ball to say what will happen - we just have to wait and see - things happen for a reason that's something I believe .

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:29 am

Vicar of Dibley (vod) wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Indeed, I may not agree with some of your views, but it does not make you a bad person. In fact you are often caring on many things. I would rather reason in how I think some views you hold are wrong to me. There are many people who voted for Trump for a multitude of reasons, they are not all racists, far from it. Many are controlled by fear arguments, its whether those arguments have an bases in rationality. They don't. They often seek to push internal problems by blaming certain groups. That is scapegoating and ceases to actual  tackle problems. History has always shown that is a poor argument. Ignoring we only progressed and changed ourselves by learning to see what views, we once held were poor and wrong.

Thanks - change is always going to cause uncertainty - but nobody has a crystal ball to say what will happen - we just have to wait and see - things happen for a reason that's something I believe .

You are welcome Dibs. You are passionate about your beliefs, many of us are. Its the ability to find common ground. Things do happen for a reason, but I hate to think or believe the holocaust happened for any valid reason and I doubt neither would you. It happened because of hate and scapegoating. As did the policies of Stalin against many ethnic groups, like the Polish, Ukrainians ect with the Soviet Union. Where they sought to suppress the views of people. You do not change the views of people through such ethnic cleansing. I may not even agree with the multitude of really poor views smelly has. He still has a right to them. The reality is his arguments have never worked, because they play on the fears that grow within people. People have constantly changed attitudes over the years, seeing such progression. That we have seem more human rights provided to many groups of people, who never had them before. We have recently see now regressive leftist now try to impose their views, also completely wrong. That is as bad as religion. You never resolve a problem by pushing that problem away or isolating this. You tackle the problem by changing minds with reasons. Its one of the best attributes of the west.

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by gelico on Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:39 am

HoratioTarr wrote:People are like fucking sheep.   If it's the 'in thing' to hate a particular politician that's what they do.   The reality is, all politicians are self serving lying bumbling puppets.   In Sweden, they're all happily going into the fold with their voluntary microchips.   It's being sold to them under the guise of ease of access to all they covet.   And so they have you.   They own you.  They can access your every move and purchase.   Smart TV's spy on you.  Ask Alexa.  Something's coming, and it's not nice.


it's the new world order

no idea why anyone would red stripe this Rolling Eyes

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:03 am

gelico wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:People are like fucking sheep.   If it's the 'in thing' to hate a particular politician that's what they do.   The reality is, all politicians are self serving lying bumbling puppets.   In Sweden, they're all happily going into the fold with their voluntary microchips.   It's being sold to them under the guise of ease of access to all they covet.   And so they have you.   They own you.  They can access your every move and purchase.   Smart TV's spy on you.  Ask Alexa.  Something's coming, and it's not nice.


it's the new world order

no idea why anyone would red stripe this   Rolling Eyes

Neither would I have an idea why someone would. Honesty is more important here and I never gave her a red, but she deserved one. As, maybe its because her views are so hypocritical though, in how we chose to believe and follow something, that we are so blind to see that we are no better ourselves.

What you have to ask is whether you have control over your own life.

I do, but do you Gelico?

If you do not, then surely you are just one in a long line that have succumb to fear.

To argue that we cannot control our own destiny, means you truly have succumb to those arguments of fear. You unlike many other people in the world have a choice. They do not, when they live under dictatorships and Totalitarian regimes. Hence its a mockery to make such a view. In fact its appalling. At the end of the day people decide what they will or not follow and all this does is excuse what is wrong. Poor beliefs itself, as if people cannot decide that it is wrong, as you offer an excuse to that, by invoking we cannot choose and decide.

Whoever gave her a red, should be applauded, as Horatio has proven she is weak, as she has succumb to fear.

First point of call people do when they are seduced by fear, is blame others and not themselves. Normally people who might have suffered pain and have never come to terms with it.


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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by gelico on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:13 am

Thorin wrote:
gelico wrote:


it's the new world order

no idea why anyone would red stripe this   Rolling Eyes

Neither would I have an idea why someone would. Honesty is more important here and I never gave her a red, but she deserved one. As, maybe its because her views are so hypocritical though, in how we chose to believe and follow something, that we are so blind to see that we are no better ourselves.

What you have to ask is whether you have control over your own life.

I do, but do you Gelico?

If you do not, then surely you are just one in a long line that have succumb to fear.

To argue that we cannot control our own destiny, means you truly have succumb to those arguments of fear. You unlike many other people in the world have a choice. They do not, when they live under dictatorships and Totalitarian regimes. Hence its a mockery to make such a view. In fact its appalling. At the end of the day people decide what they will or not follow and all this does is excuse what is wrong, poor beliefs itself, as you offer an excuse.


yes, I have control over my own life

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:15 am

gelico wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Neither would I have an idea why someone would. Honesty is more important here and I never gave her a red, but she deserved one. As, maybe its because her views are so hypocritical though, in how we chose to believe and follow something, that we are so blind to see that we are no better ourselves.

What you have to ask is whether you have control over your own life.

I do, but do you Gelico?

If you do not, then surely you are just one in a long line that have succumb to fear.

To argue that we cannot control our own destiny, means you truly have succumb to those arguments of fear. You unlike many other people in the world have a choice. They do not, when they live under dictatorships and Totalitarian regimes. Hence its a mockery to make such a view. In fact its appalling. At the end of the day people decide what they will or not follow and all this does is excuse what is wrong, poor beliefs itself, as you offer an excuse.


yes, I have control over my own life

So why would you agree with someone so in fear they have no control of her life that promotes fear?

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by gelico on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:18 am

Thorin wrote:
gelico wrote:


yes, I have control over my own life

So why would you agree with someone so in fear they have no control of her life that promotes fear?


what? what are you talking about? who is in fear of no control? who is promoting fear?

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:19 am

gelico wrote:
Thorin wrote:

So why would you agree with someone so in fear they have no control of her life that promotes fear?


what?  what are you talking about?  who is in fear of no control? who is promoting  fear?

Did she not say about how people are being led and controlled and then you back this with some conspiracy shit about the "New World Order"?

Seems like you are in fear, as why buy into fear?

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:28 am

I can tell you why you do Gelico

You wont like my answer though

Its why many people fall for religious beliefs..

Hence why some of the biggest conspiracy theorists are in the main religious.

Now some conspiracy theories turn out to be true. A rarity, but those promoting many false ones, know that those susceptible to fear, like many religious people, buy into them. Religious people fear the unknowing, death itself. They wish and hope for something more. Nothing wrong with that, but it allows for when religious loons to manipulate people off this. They are easily led.

You just said you have control over your own life.

So do you really believe in a "New world Order"? No different from in fact any religious belief?

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by gelico on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:37 am

Thorin wrote:I can tell you why you do Gelico

You wont like my answer though

Its why many people fall for religious beliefs..

Hence why some of the biggest conspiracy theorists are in the main religious.

Now some conspiracy theories turn out to be true. A rarity, but those promoting many false ones, know that those susceptible to fear, like many religious people, buy into them. Religious people fear the unknowing, death itself. They wish and hope for something more. Nothing wrong with that, but it allows for when religious loons to manipulate people off this. They are easily led.

You just said you have control over your own life.

So do you really believe in a "New world Order"? No different from in fact any religious belief?


i'm not quite sure what you've read into regarding HTs post. She never mentioned fear, nor did she mention not having any control,,,,,it's a privacy issue from my own point of view but I'll let her answer for herself

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:45 am

gelico wrote:
Thorin wrote:I can tell you why you do Gelico

You wont like my answer though

Its why many people fall for religious beliefs..

Hence why some of the biggest conspiracy theorists are in the main religious.

Now some conspiracy theories turn out to be true. A rarity, but those promoting many false ones, know that those susceptible to fear, like many religious people, buy into them. Religious people fear the unknowing, death itself. They wish and hope for something more. Nothing wrong with that, but it allows for when religious loons to manipulate people off this. They are easily led.

You just said you have control over your own life.

So do you really believe in a "New world Order"? No different from in fact any religious belief?


i'm not quite sure what you've read into regarding HTs post.  She never mentioned fear, nor did she mention not having any control,,,,,it's a privacy issue from my own point of view but I'll let her answer for herself

Did she not.

Then why did she invoke a view that people were being controlled or at the very least manipulated in what they buy? Based on a view that a TV will gain information at supposedly what you like? Do not adverts do this and have done this for years?

Google and every other internet provided already calculates what you already search and look at. That is simple catering to a business need. So a company has no need to watch you through your TV, You already input exactly what you like daily, into the internet world.

Is that a view formed from fear?

Take your time

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by gelico on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:49 am

Thorin wrote:
gelico wrote:


i'm not quite sure what you've read into regarding HTs post.  She never mentioned fear, nor did she mention not having any control,,,,,it's a privacy issue from my own point of view but I'll let her answer for herself

Did she not.

Then why did she invoke a view that people were being controlled or at the very least manipulated in what they buy? Based on a view that a TV will gain information at supposedly what you like? Do not adverts do this and have done this for years?

Google and every other internet provided already calculates what you already search and look at. That is simple catering to a business need. So a company has no need to watch you through your TV, You already input exactly what you like daily, into the internet world.

Is that a view formed from fear?

Take your time


you'll have to ask her that


i haven't looked into what she said and there was no link

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:53 am

gelico wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Did she not.

Then why did she invoke a view that people were being controlled or at the very least manipulated in what they buy? Based on a view that a TV will gain information at supposedly what you like? Do not adverts do this and have done this for years?

Google and every other internet provided already calculates what you already search and look at. That is simple catering to a business need. So a company has no need to watch you through your TV, You already input exactly what you like daily, into the internet world.

Is that a view formed from fear?

Take your time


you'll have to ask her that


i haven't looked into what she said and there was no link

So you took it as gospel and then stated you had no idea why anyone would give her a red?

One thing to say to that?

Baaaaa

Wow, so you agreed with her and now say I have to ask her?

Are you now backtracking Gelico?

As bad as you invoking the "New World Order" and shying away from that?

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by gelico on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:55 am

Thorin wrote:
gelico wrote:


you'll have to ask her that


i haven't looked into what she said and there was no link

So you took it as gospel and then stated you had no idea why anyone would give her a red?




why would i just assume she's lying? anyhoos i'm off to watch x factor with my son so you can fuck off for a bit

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:58 am

gelico wrote:
Thorin wrote:

So you took it as gospel and then stated you had no idea why anyone would give her a red?




why would i just assume she's lying?  anyhoos i'm off to watch x factor with my son so you can fuck off for a bit

Why would I assume that supposedly Muhammad flew to heaven on a winged horse?

Now, now Gelico, don't be a sore loser when taken to task for showing the worst hypocrisy as you did, for blindly believing someone without facts. Its why you are a Christian.

If she can present her claims with facts, no problem.

You see how you were easily manipulated?

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by smelly-bandit on Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:28 am

Shit this thread has legs didn't even see where it went.

Thought eddie had gunned it down.

Ok

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Cass on Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:30 pm

Gels, I haven't forgotten just been hellishly busy catching up at work after holiday and sickness and family life ya know? Haven't forgotten but too tired.

C xxx

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:41 pm

eddie wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:What is "appreaction" anyway? Is it like covfefe?

I've been waiting for someone to ask actually.

"Appreaction" is what you feel after a RW education.
Perhaps. I dunno.

"Covfefe" is simply fuckeries that one might do after having a RW education.
Perhaps. I dunno.

I think you're totally right. But maybe covfefe is what happens when you've had a RW education and you try to tweet when you're really sleepy.

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by HoratioTarr on Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:00 am

Miffs2 wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:People are like fucking sheep.   If it's the 'in thing' to hate a particular politician that's what they do.   The reality is, all politicians are self serving lying bumbling puppets.   In Sweden, they're all happily going into the fold with their voluntary microchips.   It's being sold to them under the guise of ease of access to all they covet.   And so they have you.   They own you.  They can access your every move and purchase.   Smart TV's spy on you.  Ask Alexa.  Something's coming, and it's not nice.

Absolutely right. The last thing anyone should have is Alexa or a smart meter.

The next step is take away cash. Make everything electronic. Every single thing you earn or spend or save will be known to the powers that be. Contactless cards now need to be housed in special wallets because your account can be drained by someone near you with a mobile phone and the right software. You can be watched via your smart phone, computer or TV or your stupid Alexa. It's like we're all staring into some bright techno flame all cooing 'It's soooo beautiful!' while someone, somewhere, shafts you with the biggest dildo in the world. And like sheep, we go to war on the whim of our leaders.

Every war ever fought made the rich richer. A gun is a financial weapon with a poor person at each end.
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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by HoratioTarr on Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:03 am

gelico wrote:
Thorin wrote:

So why would you agree with someone so in fear they have no control of her life that promotes fear?


what?  what are you talking about?  who is in fear of no control? who is promoting  fear?

He's missing the point, or chooses to. I think you get it though.
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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:07 am

So I was right, a fear based argument and another example of cultural pessimism.


Cultural pessimism has been around as long as culture. Pessimistic attacks have been leveled for centuries, although the target has changed frequently. Many moralists and philosophers, including Plato, criticized theater and poetry for their corrupting influence. Books became a target after the onset of publishing. Eighteenth-century pessimists accused novels of preventing readers from thinking, preaching disobedience to parents (note the contradictory charges), undermining women’s sense of subservience, breaking down class distinctions, and making readers sick. Libraries, especially privately run circulating libraries, were another target.
Edward Mangin remarked in 1808, ‘There is scarcely a street of the metropolis, or a village in the country, in which a circulating library may not be found: nor is there a corner of the empire, where the English language is understood, that has not suffered from the effects of this institution’.

In the 18th and 19th centuries the targets included epistolary romances, newspapers, opera, the music hall, photography, and instrumental virtuosi, such as Liszt and Paganini. The 20th
century brought the scapegoats of radio, movies, modern art, professional sports, the automobile, television, rhythm and blues, rock ‘n’ roll, comic books, MTV music videos, and rap music. Each new medium or genre has been accused of corrupting youth and promoting excess sensuality, political subversion, and moral relativism.

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:14 am

I would also add, the view on wars and why some people have taken up arms to fight. Really has to go down as some of the poorest and shoddiest knowledge historically of wars in history. Claiming the reason to be essentially the same within all of them.

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Cass on Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:04 pm

gelico wrote:
Cass wrote:I do sometimes. But not at work. Ever. I'm not allowed to.

not with the patrons but what about your co-workers?  i worked in a care home before and during lunch breaks etc there would always be a load of people congregated in the ''smoking area''  we would always have a topic on the go, and there were a lot of immigrants there to giving their views on all sorts,,,,it was actually really good but dont know what your work environment is like
i try not too. I have been burned before and/or targeted. The US workplace is very different from the U.K. I talk about books, tv show/movies, the weather. Sounds boring and it is. Plus Americans really don't understand irony and I'm far too sarcastic for them as well.
To be honest, I got sick of it all a few forums ago. Nothing I say will really change the mind of the person I'm speaking too.

i was talking more about irl than forums tbh.  and the reason is that i've always considered you to be so reasonable and measured and laid back, apart from being a really nice person in general so what makes you think you can't change peoples minds?  if anyone can it would be someone like you imo. i do with friends. Some are more right than me, some more left. I believe in giving people resources to check out. Don't get me wrong, I can rant and rave with the best of them, it's just over the years I've noticed it doesn't make a damn difference, except to my blood pressure. Honestly? I just can't be bothered anymore.

I fight for the causes I believe in, I just don't feel the need to go on and on about them.

what are the causes you fight for and what does that involve?

social justice/equality causes mostly. Funding for libraries and schools of course!

also can i ask you who you think should be president?  or who at least has the potential to be a good president?

also did you ever support hilary clinton?  and if you did, do you still?

or did you favour bernie sanders?

i've heard a fair amount of people interviewed who were really pissed off about hilary standing simply because they wanted bernie and it kind of split the democrats and damaged them - said people did not vote for trump obviously but nor did they vote for clinton

how do you feel about things now?

thanks for coming back on this one, cass

Yes I voted for her and supported her. She was qualified. Is she perfect? No, no candidate ever is. I still support her. There is so much fake and dangerous gossip out there about her. Did I agree with her on everything? Absolutely not.

Bernie is an angry old guy. He was an independent who wanted to play in the big leagues and get access to big money so he jumped the shark and got hammered. Some of his ideas are good in theory, it's the practical that lets him down. Yeah he was ambushed by the DNC because you know what? They did their job in pushing forth their own candidate. They're politicians. That is what they are supposed to do fer gawd' sake. I still do not understand why his followers don't get that. I'd have had more respect for him if he stayed as an independent. He took a gamble and he lost. He then proceeded to do a lot of damage to the party he was supposedly running for.

If Kasich or Jeb Bush had run and won, I would be fine with that. Why? Because they were qualified to do the job. Yeah I wouldn't have been thrilled but it would have been a gazillion times better than what we are currently suffering under.

I am deeply unhappy about the current situation. It's embarrassing and dangerous and just plain wrong. And ugly. Very very ugly. I hope we, as a country, can survive.

Hope that answers your questions.

C xx

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:00 pm

Well put and good reasoning.  

But Bernie wasn't just an independent.  Bernie is a Socialist.  So it's ironic that people conceive of him as a principal contender among Democrats.  He's not even of the same ideology.

I think he's on to something with regard to healthcare.  It should be complete, full socialized medicine (they call it 'single payer' but it's SM).  But I think your assessment of him is spot on.

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Cass on Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:52 pm

Original Quill wrote:Well put and good reasoning.  

But Bernie wasn't just an independent.  Bernie is a Socialist.  So it's ironic that people conceive of him as a principal contender among Democrats.  He's not even of the same ideology.

I think he's on to something with regard to healthcare.  It should be complete, full socialized medicine (they call it 'single payer' but it's SM).  But I think your assessment of him is spot on.

You're right on the socialist part. I have no problem as both the US and U.K. and most European nations have socialistic programs. He is very much a reason as to why we are where we are today but he won't accept the blame, nor will a hard core of his extreme supporters.


I also agree on the single payer medicine/sm. I lived with it for 25 years, had my children with it, had a few ops on it (pre-canerousycells), saw them take wonderful care of my step-father with his myriad problems as well as other family and friends. Doing a comparison, Mr. C and I pay roughly the same in premiums/tax/social security that we did with the NHS, just a little bit less. I would happily pay a little bit more to have what they have. You know as your daughter is a doctor, and so are many of my family members, but the US system is a nightmare. The vast majority of my patrons can't even afford to go the sliding scale clinics, let alone buy medicine, yet they voted republican. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. But their critical thinking skills were AWOL (and not to make fun, but were never developed in the first place).

Let's face it, the vast behemoth that is the US government will never be fixed truly. It's far too big and there are far too many corporate fingers in pies. The republicans will never lower the debt, neither will the Dems. The only sure fix is dismantling the lot, but that will never happen unless there is a nuclear wipeout.

Anyhoos, it's late and I'm off to bed for a read.

Night x

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:23 pm

The Problems with Cass's assessment is that it means that Republican party are better more honest and devoted to democracy
they didn't want trump but when the people spoke they listened. The Dems Railroaded their candidate in and are now ever tarnished in the future as their name is a complete hypocrisy.

Yes they are politicians BUT that is exactly what people did NOT want to vote for.
And that is reality Trump got no more votes than McCain, Hillary just got A LOT less than Obama.

If the establishment can't accept that People want Change and decide to railroad in their preference than Trump is what is needed. the USA needs Trump because the Democrats Failed to be Democratic.

Trump is the release valve, he is the brewing civil war, he is the Racist past, he is the Hill Shepherds idealism. He is the man that may press the nuke button. He is the shake up the US politician systems needs OR he is the portent of the Apocalypse and the decent into Idiocracy. I think It just depends on If the Democrats get the message that they need to change.


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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by eddie on Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:42 pm

I'm not too sure I could take "The Rock" seriously as president. I mean, come on..!

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Cass on Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:47 am

veya_victaous wrote:The Problems with Cass's assessment is that it means that Republican party are better more honest and devoted to democracy
they didn't want trump but when the people spoke they listened. The Dems Railroaded their candidate in and are now ever tarnished in the future as their name is a complete hypocrisy.
Yes they are politicians BUT that is exactly what people did NOT want to vote for.
And that is reality Trump got no more votes than McCain, Hillary just got A LOT less than Obama.
If the establishment can't accept that People want Change and decide to railroad in their preference than Trump is what is needed. the USA needs Trump because the Democrats Failed to be Democratic.
Trump is the release valve, he is the brewing civil war, he is the Racist past, he is the Hill Shepherds idealism. He is the man that may press the nuke button. He is the shake up the US politician  systems needs OR he is the portent of the Apocalypse and the decent into Idiocracy. I think It just depends on If the Democrats get the message that they need to change.
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You've got to be kidding me. The GOP way before this election, let the extremists take over their party. Hence the mess of the Electoral College. They are the ones who put Party before country.

You really do not understand. The Democratic Party fought on behalf of their candidate. That is their job. They are not tarnished, except in the minds of Bernie bots who contributed to the whole mess we're in.

I'm sorry but for people who don't understand what politicians are, and their jobs and want change, suck it up. Would you hire a garbage collector to do your cancer surgery? An accountant to build you a house? A lawyer to teach your children? A farmer to fix a complicated plumbing issue in your flooded basement? I sure as hell wouldn't.


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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Angry Andy on Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:10 am

It would not surprise me if Michelle Obama put her hat in the ring as the Democratic candidate.
She has many good attributes. Intelligent, eloquent, articulate, strong political opinions, caring and also highly photogenic. Damn, she is a beautiful.looking woman.

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by eddie on Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:05 am

Angry Andy wrote:It would not surprise me if Michelle Obama put her hat in the ring as the Democratic candidate.
She has many good attributes. Intelligent, eloquent, articulate, strong political opinions, caring and also highly photogenic. Damn, she is a beautiful.looking woman.

I think she'd be a good president.

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:01 am

It would be nice if she were considering it, but she's said she's not. And she just ruffled a lot of feathers on the right by talking about how all the racial hate directed toward her family was hard to endure.

She might be as hated as Hillary Clinton on the right, actually:
















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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Cass on Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:27 am

I wouldn't if I was her, although I think she would be terrific. But this. It's just so gross. And evil.

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by gelico on Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:18 pm

Cass wrote:
gelico wrote:
social justice/equality causes mostly. Funding for libraries and schools of course!

also can i ask you who you think should be president?  or who at least has the potential to be a good president?

also did you ever support hilary clinton?  and if you did, do you still?

or did you favour bernie sanders?

i've heard a fair amount of people interviewed who were really pissed off about hilary standing simply because they wanted bernie and it kind of split the democrats and damaged them - said people did not vote for trump obviously but nor did they vote for clinton

how do you feel about things now?

thanks for coming back on this one, cass

Yes I voted for her and supported her. She was qualified. Is she perfect? No, no candidate ever is. I still support her. There is so much fake and dangerous gossip out there about her. Did I agree with her on everything? Absolutely not.


i didn't realise you had answered me, cass - sorry.  so, what is the gossip that is fake?  did you see trey gowdy trying to get a straight answer from her regarding Benghazi?  excrutiating to watch,,,,,How about the pay to play scandal?  what about the fact that she intimidated a woman who had been raped by her husband and to this day has never got justice for it?  or the fact that her husband happily jizzing into the face of Monica is no big deal?  or all the missing money that Haiti didn't get?  or the bleached emails?  or the fact that she was slagging off bankers then seen on video supporting them? all of that is not fake gossip it is factual.  so, apart from being two faced and lying through her teeth, what is she qualified at?

Bernie is an angry old guy. He was an independent who wanted to play in the big leagues and get access to big money so he jumped the shark and got hammered. Some of his ideas are good in theory, it's the practical that lets him down. Yeah he was ambushed by the DNC because you know what? They did their job in pushing forth their own candidate. They're politicians. That is what they are supposed to do fer gawd' sake. I still do not understand why his followers don't get that. I'd have had more respect for him if he stayed as an independent. He took a gamble and he lost. He then proceeded to do a lot of damage to the party he was supposedly running for.



that's what i don't understand cass - when you say ''their own candidate'',,,,if he was already their own candidate then how come Hilary suddenly became their own candidate? (it was the same party).  i know nowt about how american politics really work and i didn't start to follow it until it just became trump vs clinton so i dont know anything about hi.m - btw, you do know that it was bernie supporters who leaked the stuff to wikileaks?  i cant remember his name (Craig something) but he was interviewed about it.  there was two of them that did it and that was because they hated hilary and wanted bernie.  they were that pissed off that they wanted to bring her down despite it being ''the same party''

If Kasich or Jeb Bush had run and won, I would be fine with that. Why? Because they were qualified to do the job. Yeah I wouldn't have been thrilled but it would have been a gazillion times better than what we are currently suffering under.

I don't know anything about those guys

I am deeply unhappy about the current situation. It's embarrassing and dangerous and just plain wrong. And ugly. Very very ugly. I hope we, as a country, can survive.

oh, i get it's embarrassing.  that's the thing, cass.  trump reminds me of some flash uncle harry that no one likes and deliberately gets left off the wedding invite but he turns up anyway convinced that his invite got lost in the post.  no one quite likes to tell him to fuck off so he procedes to blunder about making a nuisance of himself, eats everything, drinks everything, bigs himself up to all the male relatives about how fabulously successful he is, leers at the women and possibly grabs a few pussys on route, steals the bride and grooms thunder completely and basically pisses everyone right off.  the sort of uncle you keep at a distance and only talk about when absolutely necessary and then through gritted teeth

but as for dangerous.....i see clinton as far more so in all honestly


Hope that answers your questions.



C xx


it has, cass - thank you xx

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:20 pm

Ben wrote:She might be as hated as Hillary Clinton on the right, actually:

Of course...she's black. America (US) is a racist nation. The rednecks would go apoplectic...having a black was bad enough for them, a black woman would cause a war.

On that note, let me say that I believe that the US will never have a woman president. Unlike a parliamentary system, where fellow politicians pick the PM, America goes to the people to choose. So, it's a grand popularity contest.

The people have preconceptions. The script calls for a male in that role. You wouldn't cast a woman as Rhett Butler, in Gone With the Wind. So, as much as I would love to see a woman president, I fear it'll never happen.

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:25 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Ben wrote:She might be as hated as Hillary Clinton on the right, actually:

Of course...she's black.  America (US) is a racist nation.  The rednecks would go apoplectic...having a black was bad enough for them, a black woman would cause a war.

On that note, let me say that I believe that the US will never have a woman president.  Unlike a parliamentary system, where fellow politicians pick the PM, America goes to the people to choose.  So, it's a grand popularity contest.  

The people have preconceptions.  The script calls for a male in that role.  You wouldn't cast a woman as Rhett Butler, in Gone With the Wind.  So, as much as I would love to see a woman president, I fear it'll never happen.

Never heard so much drivel in all my life.

Never say never to anything, especially on your warped views of people.

People said Apartheid would never end, it did in South Africa.

People said women would never have the right to vote, they did.

People said there would never be a Black President, there was a Black President.

I could go on, but you are as bad as those on the right with your fear mongering. Where even worse you insult many Americans.

There would have been a woman President this time, if not for the fact she ended up pissing off a lot of the Sanders supporters.

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:48 pm

It's an opinion. I've got my opinion, you've got yours.

But I know this country far better than you. I'm older. I'm more educated. And, most importantly, I live here.

The less-educated, white males of American--the ones who put Trump in office--will never vote for a female. When they close their eyes and envision a strong female, they immediately think of their ex-wives. When they think of Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi, they immediately think: that cunt is coming after my paycheck again.

Ideologies run far deeper than mere opinions or even interests. There's a psychological thing going on, that pulls up feelings of rejection, hatred, and deep-seated insecurities.

But if that changes, could be...

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:52 pm

Original Quill wrote:It's an opinion.  I've got my opinion, you've got yours.

But I know this country far better than you.  I'm older.  I'm more educated.  And, most importantly, I live here.

The less-educated, white males of American--the ones who put Trump in office--will never vote for a female.  When they close their eyes and envision a strong female, they immediately think of their ex-wives.  When they think of Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi, they immediately think: that cunt is coming after my paycheck again.

Ideologies run far deeper than mere opinions or even interests.  There's a psychological thing going on, that pulls up feelings of rejection, hatred, and deep-seated insecurities.  

But if that changes, could be...


So you then make an even worse argument based racially on the education of some whites and only whites.

You may live there, but you live within a very small part within the US.

Hence it is an absurd claim to make, when daily you interact with a small number of Americans in one part of a US state. You form many views yourself based on what you read and learn also. Of which as seen is no better racially in how some whites views blacks, Asians etc. Making you essentially part of the problem.

You seek to maintain a divide between people, not unite them.

Like I say, changes have continually happened, so never say never

Laters, as I have to get ready for work

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:39 pm

Cass wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:The Problems with Cass's assessment is that it means that Republican party are better more honest and devoted to democracy
they didn't want trump but when the people spoke they listened. The Dems Railroaded their candidate in and are now ever tarnished in the future as their name is a complete hypocrisy.
Yes they are politicians BUT that is exactly what people did NOT want to vote for.
And that is reality Trump got no more votes than McCain, Hillary just got A LOT less than Obama.
If the establishment can't accept that People want Change and decide to railroad in their preference than Trump is what is needed. the USA needs Trump because the Democrats Failed to be Democratic.
Trump is the release valve, he is the brewing civil war, he is the Racist past, he is the Hill Shepherds idealism. He is the man that may press the nuke button. He is the shake up the US politician  systems needs OR he is the portent of the Apocalypse and the decent into Idiocracy. I think It just depends on If the Democrats get the message that they need to change.
Image result for Dwayne Johnson 2020

You've got to be kidding me. The GOP way before this election, let the extremists take over their party. Hence the mess of the Electoral College. They are the ones who put Party before country.

You really do not understand. The Democratic Party fought on behalf of their candidate. That is their job. They are not tarnished, except in the minds of Bernie bots who contributed to the whole mess we're in.

I'm sorry but for people who don't understand what politicians are, and their jobs and want change, suck it up. Would you hire a garbage collector to do your cancer surgery? An accountant to build you a house? A lawyer to teach your children? A farmer to fix a complicated plumbing issue in your flooded basement? I sure as hell wouldn't.


Bernie bots being the Majority of voter under 35. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

Would you keep employing a plumber that keeps making unnecessarily complex piping to minor plumbing issues? to be an expert in arbitrary system of your own invention is not an expert at all. when some one does in the technical world they are fired and unemployable, a failure and disgrace in the eyes of the industry, when a politician does they railroaded into being the party candidate.

Time to Burn it All and start again... which is why Trump is needed, he is the match the piles of tinder that have been created by the 2 parties that have furthered their own interests at the cost of the people.

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by eddie on Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:26 pm

Cass wrote:I wouldn't if I was her, although I think she would be terrific. But this. It's just so gross. And evil.

Its fucking ignorant backward shite, that's what it is. Vile.

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:13 am

Suspect

"Only in America"...

If those extremist GOP/Tea Party types were publishing that racist crappola online in Oz or Britain,  they could probably be charged under 'Anti-Vilification' laws  ???

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Original Quill on Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:19 am

Thorin wrote:So you then make an even worse argument based racially on the education of some whites and only whites.

It's a fact, didge.  The American electorate is the most studied in the world.  What with the Gallop Poll, the Field poll, and Pew...many, many others, they've got the public dissected and inspected every which way.

Trump is favored by the populists.  You got your basic picture of the Trump voter in Charlottesville, because Trump was the one who brought them out and gave them the confidence to demonstrate (remember: "I'll pay your defense costs?")

The populist voter is white, primarily without college education, who feels alienated from the system. He is, today, nationalist and anti-government.

Didge, watch the confusion of fact with normative theory.  You do that often...more so, lately.  When one is making a factual statement, s/he is not necessarily advocating.  

When reading, think of the difference between description and prescription.  Just because someone describes something, does not mean s/he is prescribing it.  This is the source of many of your issues with posters.

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:21 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:So you then make an even worse argument based racially on the education of some whites and only whites.

It's a fact, didge.  The American electorate is the most studied in the world.  What with the Gallop Poll, the Field poll, and Pew...many, many others, they've got the public dissected and inspected every which way.

Trump is favored by the populists.  You got your basic picture of the Trump voter in Charlottesville, because Trump was the one who brought they out and gave them to confidence to demonstrate (remember: "I'll pay your defense costs.")



Where did I talk about Trump and how many people are in the US?

How many voted for Trump?

Do the maths?

Then explain to me how again you speak for hundreds of millions of Americans?

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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

Post by Original Quill on Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:26 am

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It's a fact, didge.  The American electorate is the most studied in the world.  What with the Gallop Poll, the Field poll, and Pew...many, many others, they've got the public dissected and inspected every which way.

Trump is favored by the populists.  You got your basic picture of the Trump voter in Charlottesville, because Trump was the one who brought they out and gave them to confidence to demonstrate (remember: "I'll pay your defense costs.")



Where did I talk about Trump and how many people are in the US?

How many voted for Trump?

Do the maths?

Then explain to me how again you speak for hundreds of millions of Americans?

The whole thread is about Trump. Trump has a base. Trump is an element today of any question about American politics.

We began by starting to speak of Michelle Obama. The extreme anti-Michelle voters would be the Trump core voters. It's simply a part of the map.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars

Someone is above the rule of law in America.
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Re: the donald trump and brexit appreaction thread

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