Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

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Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:45 am



ABC News wrote:US nurse arrested for refusing to draw blood from unconscious patient

September 2 201y

A US nurse says she was scared to death and trying to find anything to hold on to when a police officer dragged her from a Utah hospital and handcuffed her for refusing to allow blood to be drawn from an unconscious patient.

Alex Wubbels said in an interview on Friday (Saturday NZ time) that the officer - later identified as Salt Lake City police detective Jeff Payne - lost his temper on July 26 and "attacked me and assaulted me and dragged me out of my emergency department".

She said she was screaming and "just trying to hold on to anything that was keeping me safe because no one else was keeping me safe".

Wubbels said that before her arrest, Payne was agitated and angry as she explained that hospital policy prevented her from drawing the patient's blood without a warrant, the patient being under arrest or with their consent.

The hospital said it was proud of the way their nurse handled the confrontation with the officer, who has been slammed by fellow nurses as violent.

The University of Utah Health hospital said in a statement on Friday that Wubbels followed procedures and protocols in the incident.

National Nurses United called it a disgraceful and outrageous act of violence.

The union also cited a US Supreme Court ruling in 2016, which affirms that a blood sample cannot be taken without patient consent or a warrant.

After the incident, Wubbels accepted apologies from the Salt Lake City mayor and police chief, saying she felt they were sincere.

She also said she was looking forward to working with them to promote civil dialogue and education.

Utah Governor Gary Herbert also weighed in on Friday, saying in a tweet that the footage was disturbing and he trusted police would rectify the situation.

Police Chief Mike Brown said he was alarmed and sad the incident caused a rift between police and nurses.

He said the department had taken steps to ensure it wouldn't happen again. Payne had been removed from blood-draw duties but remained in his role as a detective in the investigations unit during an internal investigation.

Wubbels said the outpouring of support she had received since releasing dramatic video of the exchange was beyond what she could have imagined.

So, an appropriate response would be for the nurses at the University of Utah Hospital to unilaterally refuse to treat any police officer brought in on an emergency basis. You never know when you are going to be attacked by them.

Tell 'em to go to Provo for help.


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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:41 am



That defective detective should be sacked outright...

This week a police officer;   next month a security guard in a suburban shopping mall or factory out in the boondocks somewhere  ???

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by nicko on Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:52 am

Just saw that on TV, in England, Doctor or Nurses decisions outrank the Law !
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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by magica on Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:15 am

I feel sorry for the nurse, she was doing what they are trained to do. That cop should be reprimanded or sacked for this blatant misuse of the law.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:20 am

nicko wrote:
Just saw that on TV, in England, Doctor or Nurses decisions outrank the Law !

cheers

Any cop over there foolish enough to support their idiot fellow officer, just better hope that they themselves don't end up in that hospital in coming weeks...

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:55 pm

Both cops have today been released from duty.  Funny, since this happened over a month ago.  Oh, the value of a video clip hitting the Internet.

But it shows you...were it not for public scrutiny, the only difference between cops and malefactors would be which side of the badge you are looking at.  They are both wrongdoers. They think they can get away with anything.  And in most cases, they can.

"Released from duty with pay?"  Doesn't that mean a paid vacation?  What a life!  One should be fired; they give you a trip to the Virgin Islands.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:08 pm

Why would the police be wanting a blood sample... if there was no reason to suspect the driver had done anything wrong...?


Maybe because there was really suspicion, and police needed to see if this driver involved in the crash had alcohol/drugs in his system, and would therefore be criminally responsible and facing prosecution...!?


It was said on the news earlier that the officer arrested the nurse under the instruction of another senior officer...



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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:30 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Why would the police be wanting a blood sample... if there was no reason to suspect the driver had done anything wrong...?

Maybe because there was really suspicion, and police needed to see if this driver involved in the crash had alcohol/drugs in his system, and would therefore be criminally responsible and facing prosecution...!?

It was said on the news earlier that the officer arrested the nurse under the instruction of another senior officer...

Of course, you've hit it right on the head.  The cops wanted to violate the driver's Constitutional rights while he was unconscious, to see if he had been drinking.

(In related news: the unconscious driver was an off-duty police officer, himself...although he was unconscious and the cops had no idea at the time.)

The nurse was following her Constitutional duty.  Absent a court order, or reasonable suspicion to arrest, the drawing of blood is a violation of the 5th-Amendment.

This raises the question: How many times have these officers violated Constitutional evidence gathering, such that they presumed the right to do this?  Do you realize what they were asking?

In order to convict the man, they would not only have to go into court and lie about the circumstances in which they got the blood sample, but they would have to presume the nurse would perjure herself and support their testimony.  In other words, they were expecting that she would commit a felony.

And when she balked, they felt justified in beating her up.  

That's your local police department, folks.  We have met the enemy, and he is a police state.  And to think that some people question the Black Lives Matter movement?!

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:09 pm



So if you are a drink/drug driver, and the possible cause of a serious road crash... then the way to get off of any charges is simply pretend to be unconscious for as long as it would take for alcohol/drug levels to be cleared by the body system...!?


I think it is right that anyone driving and involved in a crash should be liable for a breath test for alcohol level... and even swabbed for drug test etc... if they are unconscious from injury then I'm pretty sure the hospital medics would most likely do a blood test as a matter of primary routine, for a variety of care reasons... one of which would be to establish whether or not there was any alcohol/substance present in the patient's system that may conflict in a dangerous way with any medication/treatment that they may have thought to give them...!!!


So surely the medics could have handed over a bit of this blood sample... or at least an analysis report of their own findings!!!???



This story stinks!!!



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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:32 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

So if you are a drink/drug driver, and the possible cause of a serious road crash... then the way to get off of any charges is simply pretend to be unconscious for as long as it would take for alcohol/drug levels to be cleared by the body system...!?

I think it is right that anyone driving and involved in a crash should be liable for a breath test for alcohol level... and even swabbed for drug test etc... if they are unconscious from injury then I'm pretty sure the hospital medics would most likely do a blood test as a matter of primary routine, for a variety of care reasons... one of which would be to establish whether or not there was any alcohol/substance present in the patient's system that may conflict in a dangerous way with any medication/treatment that they may have thought to give them...!!!

So surely the medics could have handed over a bit of this blood sample... or at least an analysis report of their own findings!!!???

This story stinks!!!

Haha...found one that stumps you, eh?  Under Article 6, the US Constitution is the highest law of the land.  So you're shite outta luck if you don't like it.  However, one can consent to a waiver of that right to deny the blood test.  But the problem here is that the guy could perform no conscious act...he was unconscious.  The cops were shite outta luck, too.

The nurse was explaining that.  The officer didn't like what he was hearing, so he decided to beat up the nurse.

This is Utah.  The western slope of the Rockies was settled by Mormons, so Idaho, Utah and Arizona are all loaded with LDS populations.

Mormons are highly sexist...very much like how didge describes Islamic attitudes toward women.  Women are property.  They have only one function: to provide children for god's chosen ones.  Mormons marry their women at 10-years old (paedophilia), and marry a lot of them to one male (polygamy).  With such a utilitarian approach toward women, it's no surprise that the cop lit into beating the nurse as she was the source of bad news.  Women are supposed to bear children, not bad news.

For my money that's what was behind all of this.  The cop was just pissed the law was telling him to pound sand.  He knew he had no cause to arrest an innocent bystander.  What's a good authoritarian Mormon to do, but take his anger out on the nearest woman.   That's what dogs, kids and women are for...to kick when you are frustrated.

Tommy, you're a good authoritarian conservative...I should think you would understand.  At least I see you empathize: "This story stinks!!!"  Twisted Evil

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:49 pm

But I bet the hospital had already done a blood sample regardless of permission or not of patient... for the reasons I specified earlier... so where does that leave your argument...!?


Should all hospital staff refrain from taking any blood samples of any patient wheeled in, without express permission of patient, even though they may be unconscious and may be denied life saving treatments without the blood content being known...!?


Accident victim wheeled in... urgently needs medication and blood transfusion... but unable to consent to blood sample to identify what blood type to give and what meds are safe to give etc, so gets nothing and dies when could have easily been saved...!?


But I think you miss the point that here in UK... the police do have the authority to demand that a blood sample can be taken from persons admitted to hospital while unconscious and without the need of that patients consent, after a RTA, as well as under other circumstances...


And the medic in direct care of patient should comply unless there are immediate and very grave and serious consequential risks to patients life by carrying out a simple blood sample procedure...!!!


https://www.drinkdriving.org/police_hospital_procedure.php




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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:04 am

Tommy Monk wrote:But I bet the hospital had already done a blood sample regardless of permission or not of patient... for the reasons I specified earlier... so where does that leave your argument...!?


Should all hospital staff refrain from taking any blood samples of any patient wheeled in, without express permission of patient, even though they may be unconscious and may be denied life saving treatments without the blood content being known...!?


Accident victim wheeled in... urgently needs medication and blood transfusion... but unable to consent to blood sample to identify what blood type to give and what meds are safe to give etc, so gets nothing and dies when could have easily been saved...!?


But I think you miss the point that here in UK... the police do have the authority to demand that a blood sample can be taken from persons admitted to hospital while unconscious and without the need of that patients consent, after a RTA, as well as under other circumstances...


And the medic in direct care of patient should comply unless there are immediate and very grave and serious consequential risks to patients life by carrying out a simple blood sample procedure...!!!


https://www.drinkdriving.org/police_hospital_procedure.php





Blimey a good argument from Tommy

Normally blood samples are taken from anyone who comes in A&E in the UK

So why is it not protocol in the US?

Or is it daft laws preventing law enforcement officers obtaining a sample?

What the officer did was utterly wrong and should be prosecuted over.

Though why is it not protocol to have blood samples taken when in A&E in the US?

That is basic common sense to do so with pathological tests in the uk.

Its to attempt to rule out, to then determine what is a probable cause and root to that patients condition.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:45 am

What if a drink driver crashed into a load of kids at a bus stop... then pretended to be unconscious all the way to the hospital where their friend/partner etc worked as a medic... and then this medic tried refusing police demands for a blood sample, on spurious grounds, to try to help their drunken guilty friend to evade justice...!?



I'm sure the police officer concerned would have been involved in enough hospital attendance blood sample reqd incidents over the years to know whats what...


And then... all of a sudden... there's this big hoo ha over a relatively routine RTA event and hospital attendance etc... trying to get blood sample from driver suspected of causing serious RTA... loads of cameras... medic denying access to blood sample for spurious reasons... cop starts thinking something not right and maybe medic is involved in perverting the course of justice in some way... and is probably right... cos Quill says that this 'unconscious' RTA driver, turns out is a 'police officer' of some kind...!!!


Maybe thats why the 'medic' was acting in a highly unusual way in trying to obstruct the regular procedure of the highly experienced and professional police officer in getting routine blood sample...!!!???



As I said... this story stinks!!!

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:22 am



Why was this nurse refusing the routine taking of blood sample for the police in this particular example...!?


And in such an unusual way with loads of cameras, and whereby a highly experienced and highly professional police officer thought something was very wrong, and thought this nurse might be up to no good and need to be arrested...!?



People need to stop waffling bollocks about 'equality' while then also automatically thinking that the medic was in the right and victimised by the police officer because medic was female and screamed and cried a bit, and cos police officer just happened to be a bloke...


If medic was refusing on spurious grounds then she should have been arrested!!!



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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:17 am

Tommy Monk wrote:But I bet the hospital had already done a blood sample regardless of permission or not of patient... for the reasons I specified earlier... so where does that leave your argument...!?

The argument is intact.  Just because they already have the blood doesn't mean they are free to give it to the cops.  They can't.

Tommy Monk wrote:Should all hospital staff refrain from taking any blood samples of any patient wheeled in, without express permission of patient, even though they may be unconscious and may be denied life saving treatments without the blood content being known...!?

No, the staff may take blood samples for medical purposes. They just may not hand it over to the cops without a consent.

Tommy Monk wrote:Accident victim wheeled in... urgently needs medication and blood transfusion... but unable to consent to blood sample to identify what blood type to give and what meds are safe to give etc, so gets nothing and dies when could have easily been saved...!?

No, no...he's unable to consent to the police taking any.  Of course, if the hospital staff need the blood for medical reasons, they can draw it.  They just can't give it to the police.


Tommy Monk wrote:But I think you miss the point that here in UK... the police do have the authority to demand that a blood sample can be taken from persons admitted to hospital while unconscious and without the need of that patients consent, after a RTA, as well as under other circumstances...

And the medic in direct care of patient should comply unless there are immediate and very grave and serious consequential risks to patients life by carrying out a simple blood sample procedure...!!!

https://www.drinkdriving.org/police_hospital_procedure.php

Utah is the US, not the UK.  The UK doesn't have a Constitution, let alone a 5th Amendment.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:33 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

Why was this nurse refusing the routine taking of blood sample for the police in this particular example...!?

And in such an unusual way with loads of cameras, and whereby a highly experienced and highly professional police officer thought something was very wrong, and thought this nurse might be up to no good and need to be arrested...!?

People need to stop waffling bollocks about 'equality' while then also automatically thinking that the medic was in the right and victimised by the police officer because medic was female and screamed and cried a bit, and cos police officer just happened to be a bloke...

If medic was refusing on spurious grounds then she should have been arrested!!!

They probably did have a blood sample already taken.  As didge says, it's routine for medical purposes.  They just can't give it to the cops. It's kinda like the medical privilege, only it's higher in that it's a Constitutional privilege.

BTW, if the cops received the sample without consent, a Judge would exclude it from evidence in any proceeding, anyway.  Exclusion from evidence is the remedy for any illegally obtained, Constitutionally privileged evidence.

As I've already explained, the cop would have to elicit perjury from the nurse anyway, because she would be asked by defense counsel (or the Court) if the blood was obtained legally.  That's SOP.  If she told the truth, and said 'No', the judge would have to exclude it anyway.

Therefore, what the cop was doing was futile in any event.  That's why I believe the cop just lost it and wanted to beat up a woman.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:40 am



IF any of those cops in that video clip are themselves admitted to that hospital over the next couple of years, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes...

Those nurses need only delay a pain killer, push in a needle the wrong way, or be a little heavy handed moving them --  and make them pay ten-times-over.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:57 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

IF any of those cops in that video clip are themselves admitted to that hospital over the next couple of years, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes...

Those nurses need only delay a pain killer, push in a needle the wrong way, or be a little heavy handed moving them --  and make them pay ten-times-over.

That would go against their own ethics and training.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Miffs2 on Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:49 pm

Thorin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:But I bet the hospital had already done a blood sample regardless of permission or not of patient... for the reasons I specified earlier... so where does that leave your argument...!?


Should all hospital staff refrain from taking any blood samples of any patient wheeled in, without express permission of patient, even though they may be unconscious and may be denied life saving treatments without the blood content being known...!?


Accident victim wheeled in... urgently needs medication and blood transfusion... but unable to consent to blood sample to identify what blood type to give and what meds are safe to give etc, so gets nothing and dies when could have easily been saved...!?


But I think you miss the point that here in UK... the police do have the authority to demand that a blood sample can be taken from persons admitted to hospital while unconscious and without the need of that patients consent, after a RTA, as well as under other circumstances...


And the medic in direct care of patient should comply unless there are immediate and very grave and serious consequential risks to patients life by carrying out a simple blood sample procedure...!!!


https://www.drinkdriving.org/police_hospital_procedure.php





Blimey a good argument from Tommy

Normally blood samples are taken from anyone who comes in A&E in the UK

So why is it not protocol in the US?

Or is it daft laws preventing law enforcement officers obtaining a sample?

What the officer did was utterly wrong and should be prosecuted over.

Though why is it not protocol to have blood samples taken when in A&E in the US?

That is basic common sense to do so with pathological tests in the uk.

Its to attempt to rule out, to then determine what is a probable cause and root to that patients condition.

Perhaps they wanted to see if he was insured and they would get paid?
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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by eddie on Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:32 pm

First thing I thought too Tommy. I'm with you on this, it's a stupid law. If that guy had originally been over the legal limit, he may well not have been by the time he woke up.

Stupid.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:40 pm

eddie wrote:First thing I thought too Tommy. I'm with you on this, it's a stupid law. If that guy had originally been over the legal limit, he may well not have been by the time he woke up.

Stupid.

It's not a law. It's a Constitutional Amendment. It's a part of the founding Social Contract...meaning if you ignore it, you can ignore the very existence of the United States of America.

Hmmm...not a bad idea, now that I think of it. Laughing

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:42 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

IF any of those cops in that video clip are themselves admitted to that hospital over the next couple of years, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes...

Those nurses need only delay a pain killer, push in a needle the wrong way, or be a little heavy handed moving them --  and make them pay ten-times-over.

That would go against their own ethics and training.

Idea

Only if they admitted to such cruel paybacks in public  !       tongue

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:42 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

That would go against their own ethics and training.

Idea

Only if they admitted to such cruel paybacks in public  !       tongue

No, because they would know themselves.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:41 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Idea

Only if they admitted to such cruel paybacks in public  !       tongue

No, because they would know themselves.

I'm sure that poor nurse doesn't know anything after the beating she got from officer Jeff Payne.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:58 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

No, because they would know themselves.

I'm sure that poor nurse doesn't know anything after the beating she got from officer Jeff Payne.

That is not at all related to what I said.

Also, she wasn't beaten, she was arrested.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:28 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I'm sure that poor nurse doesn't know anything after the beating she got from officer Jeff Payne.

That is not at all related to what I said.

Also, she wasn't beaten, she was arrested.

HAHAHA...  And those kids in Vietnam weren't killed, they were repatriated.  And those citizens in Iraq weren't tortured, they were intensely interrogated..  And those little girls in Iraq weren't raped, they were given pelvic examinations.  If they were sent to Guantanamo, they were given free housing.  How ungrateful they are for not thanking us!

I could go on, but my sides are splitting.  Having fun with the language games, though.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:38 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

That is not at all related to what I said.

Also, she wasn't beaten, she was arrested.

HAHAHA...  And those kids in Vietnam weren't killed, they were repatriated.  And those citizens in Iraq weren't tortured, they were intensely interrogated..  And those little girls in Iraq weren't raped, they were given pelvic examinations.  If they were sent to Guantanamo, they were given free housing.  How ungrateful they are for not thanking us!

I could go on, but my sides are splitting.  Having fun with the language games, though.

You didn't watch the video did you? She didn't get a beating, she was arrested. Watch it before you make a fool of yourself.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:44 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

HAHAHA...  And those kids in Vietnam weren't killed, they were repatriated.  And those citizens in Iraq weren't tortured, they were intensely interrogated..  And those little girls in Iraq weren't raped, they were given pelvic examinations.  If they were sent to Guantanamo, they were given free housing.  How ungrateful they are for not thanking us!

I could go on, but my sides are splitting.  Having fun with the language games, though.

You didn't watch the video did you? She didn't get a beating, she was arrested. Watch it before you make a fool of yourself.

Seen it many times. I posted it, after looking at a couple of dozen for the best clip.

Don't change the subject. You are just trying to call a pig's ear a silk purse. I'm not letting you get away with it. Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:55 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You didn't watch the video did you? She didn't get a beating, she was arrested. Watch it before you make a fool of yourself.

Seen it many times.  I posted it, after looking at a couple of dozen for the best clip.

Don't change the subject.  You are just trying to call a pig's ear a silk purse.  I'm not letting you get away with it.  Evil or Very Mad

She didn't get a beating - that's a fact. You keep arguing about things which didn't happen.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:00 pm

In the UK the police can take a sample... it cannot be used without the consent of the person involved... but if they refuse consent then they can be charged with failing to provide a specimen which is considered to be the same as being drunk while driving...!

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:18 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Seen it many times.  I posted it, after looking at a couple of dozen for the best clip.

Don't change the subject.  You are just trying to call a pig's ear a silk purse.  I'm not letting you get away with it.  Evil or Very Mad

She didn't get a beating - that's a fact. You keep arguing about things which didn't happen.

She got beaten up by this cop, Jeff Payne.  You sound like the common wife-beater, arguing: I was just talking some sense into her, and she fell down the stairs...to make my point!   Uh-huh, heard that one before! Rolling Eyes

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

She didn't get a beating - that's a fact. You keep arguing about things which didn't happen.

She got beaten up by this cop, Jeff Payne.  You sound like the common wife-beater, arguing: I was just talking some sense into her, and she fell down the stairs...to make my point!   Uh-huh, heard that one before! Rolling Eyes

She wasn't beaten up - you must have been watching the wrong video. I can't be a wife beater - I don't have a wife. Laughing

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:32 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

She got beaten up by this cop, Jeff Payne.  You sound like the common wife-beater, arguing: I was just talking some sense into her, and she fell down the stairs...to make my point!   Uh-huh, heard that one before! Rolling Eyes

She wasn't beaten up - you must have been watching the wrong video. I can't be a wife beater - I don't have a wife. Laughing

I didn't say you were a wife beater, or could be one. I said you sound like a common wife beater. Those are the kind of cheap excuses that a spousal abuser offers. Any person that would do what Payne did to that nurse, is a cheap girly boy.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:03 am

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

She wasn't beaten up - you must have been watching the wrong video. I can't be a wife beater - I don't have a wife. Laughing

I didn't say you were a wife beater, or could be one.  I said you sound like a common wife beater.  Those are the kind of cheap excuses that a spousal abuser offers.  Any person that would do what Payne did to that nurse, is a cheap girly boy.

The point is that he didn't beat her, so you're barking up the wrong tree again. I'm not saying he should have arrested her, he shouldn't have done that, but he didn't beat her up.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:14 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I didn't say you were a wife beater, or could be one.  I said you sound like a common wife beater.  Those are the kind of cheap excuses that a spousal abuser offers.  Any person that would do what Payne did to that nurse, is a cheap girly boy.

The point is that he didn't beat her, so you're barking up the wrong tree again. I'm not saying he should have arrested her, he shouldn't have done that, but he didn't beat her up.

Idea

Your British guvm'nt may be be more lenient on your own heavy-handed bully-boy cops than in many other jurisdictions, Raggs  --  but down here, the way he was pushing that nurse around, grabbing her and hand-cuffing her without any proper cause, he could be charged himself with common assault...

After all, she hadn't broken any laws, had she --  all she actually did was tell him he was out of order..

Seems like NSW is more similar to the US in regards to these human rights issues  --  but then, your Britain's guvm'nt and its agencies have several good financial reasons to avoid many human rights issues, doesn't it.

Stolen children, institutionalised child abuse, the establishment still deliberately defending paedo' diplomats (viz. William Slim..), and your own corrupt police...

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:46 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

The point is that he didn't beat her, so you're barking up the wrong tree again. I'm not saying he should have arrested her, he shouldn't have done that, but he didn't beat her up.

Idea

Your British guvm'nt may be be more lenient on your own heavy-handed bully-boy cops than in many other jurisdictions, Raggs  --  but down here, the way he was pushing that nurse around, grabbing her and hand-cuffing her without any proper cause, he could be charged himself with common assault...

After all, she hadn't broken any laws, had she --  all she actually did was tell him he was out of order..

Seems like NSW is more similar to the US in regards to these human rights issues  --  but then, your Britain's guvm'nt and its agencies have several good financial reasons to avoid many human rights issues, doesn't it.

Stolen children, institutionalised child abuse, the establishment still deliberately defending paedo' diplomats (viz. William Slim..), and your own corrupt police...

Nevertheless, he still didn't give her a beating. Some people do like to exaggerate.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Jules on Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:31 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:In the UK the police can take a sample... it cannot be used without the consent of the person involved... but if they refuse consent then they can be charged with failing to provide a specimen which is considered to be the same as being drunk while driving...!


A cop dragging a uniformed nurse down a hospital corridor?  Shocked
Paint it any  way you want, it's NOT a good look, Tommy.
He took jobsworthiness to new heights.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:55 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Idea

Your British guvm'nt may be be more lenient on your own heavy-handed bully-boy cops than in many other jurisdictions, Raggs  --  but down here, the way he was pushing that nurse around, grabbing her and hand-cuffing her without any proper cause, he could be charged himself with common assault...

After all, she hadn't broken any laws, had she --  all she actually did was tell him he was out of order..

Seems like NSW is more similar to the US in regards to these human rights issues  --  but then, your Britain's guvm'nt and its agencies have several good financial reasons to avoid many human rights issues, doesn't it.

Stolen children, institutionalised child abuse, the establishment still deliberately defending paedo' diplomats (viz. William Slim..), and your own corrupt police...

Nevertheless, he still didn't give her a beating. Some people do like to exaggerate.

Obviously, 'Pussy-Grabber' Trump is not the only one with "alternative facts".   It's an interesting exercise in semantics to hear you say, Raggs, that Officer Payne was not physically violent with an innocent female.  Now I know where RW lingo-bending comes from.

Torture, we hear, is now enhanced interrogation.  Rape is an informal pelvic examination.  Warfare is really a form of Peace.  Peacekeepers carry explosives and kill babies.  I'll pay their defense costs is merely an offer of a charitable donation.  We just didn't understand the Alt.Right: people are stupid and will fall for this kind of lingo-bending.

Putting aside that people aren't that stupid, does anyone doubt the arrogant elitism of the Right wing?

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Lord Foul on Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:04 pm

even over here...if an officer of the law (indeed anyone) lays so much as a finger on you [i]without lawful cause[i], it is "common assault". And in reality "lawful cause" is quite clearly defined, only if acting on a court order, OR within the remit of their warrant, may a police offiecr in ANY way detain, interrupt or interfere with what you are doing....

trouble is they get away with far to much becasue the general public are lazy assed numpties who dont learn enough law to even obey it most of the time.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Nevertheless, he still didn't give her a beating. Some people do like to exaggerate.

Obviously, 'Pussy-Grabber' Trump is not the only one with "alternative facts".   It's an interesting exercise in semantics to hear you say, Raggs, that Officer Payne was not physically violent with an innocent female.  Now I know where RW lingo-bending comes from.

Torture, we hear, is now enhanced interrogation.  Rape is an informal pelvic examination.  Warfare is really a form of Peace.  Peacekeepers carry explosives and kill babies.  I'll pay their defense costs is merely an offer of a charitable donation.  We just didn't understand the Alt.Right: people are stupid and will fall for this kind of lingo-bending.

Putting aside that people aren't that stupid, does anyone doubt the arrogant elitism of the Right wing?

You said she was beaten, and she wasn't beaten. You should choose your words more carefully.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:04 pm

Jules wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:In the UK the police can take a sample... it cannot be used without the consent of the person involved... but if they refuse consent then they can be charged with failing to provide a specimen which is considered to be the same as being drunk while driving...!


A cop dragging a uniformed nurse down a hospital corridor?  Shocked
Paint it any  way you want, it's NOT a good look, Tommy.
He took jobsworthiness to new heights.


It was said on the news here in UK that he was arresting her after being told to by a senior officer by radio/telephone communication...



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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:36 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Obviously, 'Pussy-Grabber' Trump is not the only one with "alternative facts".   It's an interesting exercise in semantics to hear you say, Raggs, that Officer Payne was not physically violent with an innocent female.  Now I know where RW lingo-bending comes from.

Torture, we hear, is now enhanced interrogation.  Rape is an informal pelvic examination.  Warfare is really a form of Peace.  Peacekeepers carry explosives and kill babies.  I'll pay their defense costs is merely an offer of a charitable donation.  We just didn't understand the Alt.Right: people are stupid and will fall for this kind of lingo-bending.

Putting aside that people aren't that stupid, does anyone doubt the arrogant elitism of the Right wing?

You said she was beaten, and she wasn't beaten. You should choose your words more carefully.

Heh, heh...like, "...grab her pussy" is just another way or referring to a locker-room key?


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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You said she was beaten, and she wasn't beaten. You should choose your words more carefully.

Heh, heh...like, "...grab her pussy" is just another way or referring to a locker-room key?


What? There were no cats involved.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:43 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Jules wrote:

A cop dragging a uniformed nurse down a hospital corridor?  Shocked
Paint it any  way you want, it's NOT a good look, Tommy.
He took jobsworthiness to new heights.

It was said on the news here in UK that he was arresting her after being told to by a senior officer by radio/telephone communication...

I think they got it wrong over there. Officer Payne was being told by the hospital administrator by speaker phone that he was violating the law. It's on the tape...listen to it yourself.

Of course, it was illegal as an arrest, so the proof is in the puddin'. Police authority should not include unnecessary violence, so Officer Payne should be punished and imprisoned as would any citizen.

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:45 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Heh, heh...like, "...grab her pussy" is just another way or referring to a locker-room key?


What? There were no cats involved.

Meh...it's another kind of animal you pet and it purrs.  Laughing

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by gelico on Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:48 pm




that police officer is a disgrace to his uniform imo

utterly appalling behaviour

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:30 pm

'...It all started when a suspect speeding away from police in a pickup truck on a local highway smashed head-on into a truck driver, as local media reported. Medics sedated the truck driver, who was severely burned, and took him to the University of Utah Hospital. He arrived in a comatose state, according to the Deseret News. The suspect died in the crash.

A neighboring police department sent Payne, a trained police phlebotomist, to collect blood from the patient and check for illicit substances, as the Tribune reported. The goal was reportedly to protect the trucker, who was not suspected of a crime. His lieutenant ordered him to arrest Wubbels if she refused to let him draw a sample, according to the Tribune...'


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/09/01/this-is-crazy-sobs-utah-hospital-nurse-as-cop-roughs-her-up-arrests-her-for-doing-her-job/


Seems he was sent to get a sample, wasn't given all the facts about incident or the person he was sent to take sample from... but he had been ordered to get sample or arrest anyone who tried to prevent him carrying out taking sample...!



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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by gelico on Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:34 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:'...It all started when a suspect speeding away from police in a pickup truck on a local highway smashed head-on into a truck driver, as local media reported. Medics sedated the truck driver, who was severely burned, and took him to the University of Utah Hospital. He arrived in a comatose state, according to the Deseret News. The suspect died in the crash.

A neighboring police department sent Payne, a trained police phlebotomist, to collect blood from the patient and check for illicit substances, as the Tribune reported. The goal was reportedly to protect the trucker, who was not suspected of a crime. His lieutenant ordered him to arrest Wubbels if she refused to let him draw a sample, according to the Tribune...'


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/09/01/this-is-crazy-sobs-utah-hospital-nurse-as-cop-roughs-her-up-arrests-her-for-doing-her-job/


Seems he was sent to get a sample, wasn't given all the facts about incident or the person he was sent to take sample from... but he had been ordered to get sample or arrest anyone who tried to prevent him carrying out taking sample...!




then they are both to blame. His lieutenant should have spoken to hospital staff himself. the police officer in question should have called back to report the situation rather than just steaming in to arrest, especially after hearing that it had none of the needed criteria to do this blood test

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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:51 pm

He was obviously under the impression that this driver was a suspect of a crime... hence him being sent there to take sample...


How would the medical staff be better informed than the police officer about whether he was a suspect or not...?


Obviously in this incident it turned out that the medical staff were right... but equally obvious that the cop was under impression that driver was suspect and was following orders to get sample or arrest anyone preventing this...



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Re: Nurse arrested for not drawing blood

Post by gelico on Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:55 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:He was obviously under the impression that this driver was a suspect of a crime... hence him being sent there to take sample...


How would the medical staff be better informed than the police officer about whether he was a suspect or not...?


Obviously in this incident it turned out that the medical staff were right
... but equally obvious that the cop was under impression that driver was suspect and was following orders to get sample or arrest anyone preventing this...



whether he was a suspect or not doesn't change the rules. she had this on loudspeaker that he needed a warrant and/or whatever else was needed for this, none of which was provided.

heavy handed and totally unwarranted. they both should be disciplined for this one.

that woman was clearly just on the front line doing her job and obeying orders. it's fucking outrageous that he would arrest her. this could have a long lasting effect on her, she was terrified and hysterical. how would you feel if that woman were your wife?

you almost seem to be defending these gargantuan goons

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