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Post by Original Quill on Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:11 am

Trump pardons Joe Arpaio
August 26, 2017

Trump has granted a presidential pardon to former Sheriff Joe Arpaio, of Maricopa County, Arizona. The memo mentions his "admirable" and "selfless public service."

The memo mentions his "admirable" and "selfless public service."

* Arpaio is being pardoned for criminal contempt charges for disobeying a 2011 court order that ordered him to stop detaining people based on his suspicions they were undocumented immigrants in what critics have called racist and discriminatory practices.

* Arpaio served as a sheriff from 1993-2016 until he was defeated last year. He endorsed Trump's presidential candidacy in January 2016 and appeared with him at campaign events.

Why it matters: Choosing Arpaio as the first pardon will enrage half the country, but Trump won't care. The way Trump sees it, he genuinely believes an injustice was done to Arpaio and he sees this as helping somebody who was loyal to him throughout the campaign. Trump viewed Arpaio's support -- along with Jeff Sessions' -- as crucial to solidifying his credentials on being tough on the border.



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Post by Jules on Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:27 am

So, ..... another day, another faux pas.

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Post by Jules on Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:44 am

When you have some spare time, these 2 vids are worth watching, Quill if you haven't seen them already. Two distinguished best selling authors who spent many months by his side, give a first hand biographical account of the man.  Your eyes will pop out on stalks at some of the revelations and these guys know him inside out. Shocked Shocked Both full of contempt for him. The book titles are:
1. THE ART OF THE DEAL
2. THE MAKING OF DONALD TRUMP







"One of the most isolated people I ever encountered. Never met someone who lived his whole life in such PRIVILEGE  but also such isolation where he rarely came in contact with people different from him and he never came much in contact with anyone who disagreed with him."

"He talks about soliciting input from all over the place  but everyone who he has ever taken input from, happened to have depended on him for a paycheque."

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Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:03 am

Trump pardons the crooks... 3724572420

And so it begins...

The end of the USA as we knew it  --  bring on "The Divided States of 'Merika"..

(And to think, a lot of RW extremists will keep on rabidly celebrating America's eventual downfall --  including a couple of occasional contributors on here  !)

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Post by Jules on Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:30 am

MAGA = Make America Gross Again. What a Face Innit?

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Post by Guest on Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:39 pm

He ran a jail that he described as a "concentration camp."

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/blogs/joe-arpaio-tent-city-a-concentration-camp-6500984

Prisoners there died at an alarming rate, often without explanation.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/prisoners-hang-themselves-in-sheriff-joe-arpaios-jails-at-a-rate-that-dwarfs-other-county-lockups-7845679

One of his jailers nearly broke the neck of a paraplegic guy who had the temerity to ask for a catheter.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/jailers-show-a-paraplegic-whos-boss-6445591

One time, as a publicity stunt, he marched Latino prisoners into a segregated area with electric fencing.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/blogs/joe-arpaio-goes-medieval-while-barack-obamas-america-is-a-million-miles-away-6500772

Here's a couple of other examples of what went on in his jails:

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/keeping-em-in-stitches-6431602

He arrested New Times reporters for covering him. They won a $3.75 million settlement for that one.


So much more on Phoenix New Times about him, utter bastard!!!!

https://twitter.com/phoenixnewtimes/status/901264137422069760

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Post by Guest on Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:41 pm

Fight fascists whenever you come across them, if you don't, the above is the result.

Some early anti fascists:

Trump pardons the crooks... DIJ5-TQXcAAshR8

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:59 pm

Hi Jules. Seen them many times. Tony Schwartz and Cay Johnson are frequent guests on MSNBC.

Schwartz was ghostwriter on The Art of the Deal. David Cay Johnson is the former law professor at Syracuse University, and the investigative journalist who first obtained a part of Trump's tax returns. He is a frequent guest on Rachael Maddow.

I enjoy the insights of both immensely.

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:05 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Trump pardons the crooks... 3724572420

And so it begins...

The end of the USA as we knew it  --  bring on "The Divided States of 'Merika"..

(And to think, a lot of RW extremists will keep on rabidly celebrating America's eventual downfall --  including a couple of occasional contributors on here  !)

Hey listen, the Neo-Nazi Trump is a boon for those of us looking for the wedge in which to get the Pacific States of America started.  We can have something better than the US.  We can have a US without the south!  We could also have a Constitution without the Second Amendment.  We could have abundance, with real justice.  We could even have PAC-12 football, without the SEC.
cheers

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by The Devil, You Know on Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:37 pm

Original Quill wrote:Trump pardons Joe Arpaio
August 26, 2017

Trump has granted a presidential pardon to former Sheriff Joe Arpaio, of Maricopa County, Arizona. The memo mentions his "admirable" and "selfless public service."

The memo mentions his "admirable" and "selfless public service."

*  Arpaio is being pardoned for criminal contempt charges for disobeying a 2011 court order that ordered him to stop detaining people based on his suspicions they were undocumented immigrants in what critics have called racist and discriminatory practices.

*  Arpaio served as a sheriff from 1993-2016 until he was defeated last year. He endorsed Trump's presidential candidacy in January 2016 and appeared with him at campaign events.

Why it matters: Choosing Arpaio as the first pardon will enrage half the country, but Trump won't care. The way Trump sees it, he genuinely believes an injustice was done to Arpaio and he sees this as helping somebody who was loyal to him throughout the campaign. Trump viewed Arpaio's support -- along with Jeff Sessions' -- as crucial to solidifying his credentials on being tough on the border.


were you up in arms over the more than 1700 that obama pardoned, including dozens of coke and meth dealers. And of course the traitor Manning.
https://www.justice.gov/pardon/obama-pardons
Obama pardoned more people than any other president.

lets not forget the 5 committed terrorists some of whom who have returned to the battlefield, that he traded to get back a deserter who cost american lives.

no, thought not, yet you get so hysterical because he pardoned a guy for doing his job.

Presidents can pardon anyone, it's part of their powers. Bill Clinton pardoned his own brother for coke offences. Hang on I see a theme coming on here.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:16 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Trump pardons Joe Arpaio
August 26, 2017

Trump has granted a presidential pardon to former Sheriff Joe Arpaio, of Maricopa County, Arizona. The memo mentions his "admirable" and "selfless public service."

The memo mentions his "admirable" and "selfless public service."

*  Arpaio is being pardoned for criminal contempt charges for disobeying a 2011 court order that ordered him to stop detaining people based on his suspicions they were undocumented immigrants in what critics have called racist and discriminatory practices.

*  Arpaio served as a sheriff from 1993-2016 until he was defeated last year. He endorsed Trump's presidential candidacy in January 2016 and appeared with him at campaign events.

Why it matters: Choosing Arpaio as the first pardon will enrage half the country, but Trump won't care. The way Trump sees it, he genuinely believes an injustice was done to Arpaio and he sees this as helping somebody who was loyal to him throughout the campaign. Trump viewed Arpaio's support -- along with Jeff Sessions' -- as crucial to solidifying his credentials on being tough on the border.

were you up in arms over the more than 1700 that obama pardoned, including dozens of coke and meth dealers. And of course the traitor Manning.
https://www.justice.gov/pardon/obama-pardons
Obama pardoned more people than any other president.

lets not forget the 5 committed terrorists some of whom who have returned to the battlefield, that he traded to get back a deserter who cost american lives.

no, thought not, yet you get so hysterical because he pardoned a guy for doing his job.

Presidents can pardon anyone, it's part of their powers. Bill Clinton pardoned his own brother for coke offences. Hang on I see a theme coming on here.

Yeah...presidents randomly pardon this person and that, at the end of the term. But Sheriff Joe stands for the destruction of the rule of law. He was imprisoned for contempt of a judge's authority. With all the laxity of campaign financing, what's to keep a drug dealer from financing a presidential campaign, and then getting the president/governor to pardon him? It's perfectly legal.

BTW...the suspicion is that Trump himself was given a 19.5% share of Rosnef Oil, the Russian Oil company for the Northern fields (richer than Saudi Arabia's Ghawar Field) to run for president and lift the sanctions, allowing the oil to flow to market. The Russian company has a contract with Exxon-Mobil to extract the oil and get it to market, and who gets appointed Trump's Secretary of State?...the ex-CEO of Exxon-Mobil, Rex Tillerson, whom Trump has never met. Bet that order came directly from the Kremlin.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by The Devil, You Know on Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:17 pm

Original Quill wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
were you up in arms over the more than 1700 that obama pardoned, including dozens of coke and meth dealers. And of course the traitor Manning.
https://www.justice.gov/pardon/obama-pardons
Obama pardoned more people than any other president.

lets not forget the 5 committed terrorists some of whom who have returned to the battlefield, that he traded to get back a deserter who cost american lives.

no, thought not, yet you get so hysterical because he pardoned a guy for doing his job.

Presidents can pardon anyone, it's part of their powers. Bill Clinton pardoned his own brother for coke offences. Hang on I see a theme coming on here.

Yeah...presidents randomly pardon this person and that, at the end of the term.  But Sheriff Joe stands for the destruction of the rule of law.  He was imprisoned for contempt of a judge's authority.  With all the laxity of campaign financing, what's to keep a drug dealer from financing a presidential campaign, and then getting the president/governor to pardon him?  It's perfectly legal.

BTW...the suspicion is that Trump himself was given a 19.5% share of Rosnef Oil, the Russian Oil company for the Northern fields (richer than Saudi Arabia's Ghawar Field) to run for president and lift the sanctions, allowing the oil to flow to market.  The Russian company has a contract with Exxon-Mobil to extract the oil and get it to market, and who gets appointed Trump's Secretary of State?...the ex-CEO of Exxon-Mobil, Rex Tillerson, whom Trump has never met.  Bet that order came directly from the Kremlin.
obama didn't pardon 1700+ people on his last days in office.

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Post by The Devil, You Know on Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:18 pm

Original Quill wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
were you up in arms over the more than 1700 that obama pardoned, including dozens of coke and meth dealers. And of course the traitor Manning.
https://www.justice.gov/pardon/obama-pardons
Obama pardoned more people than any other president.

lets not forget the 5 committed terrorists some of whom who have returned to the battlefield, that he traded to get back a deserter who cost american lives.

no, thought not, yet you get so hysterical because he pardoned a guy for doing his job.

Presidents can pardon anyone, it's part of their powers. Bill Clinton pardoned his own brother for coke offences. Hang on I see a theme coming on here.

Yeah...presidents randomly pardon this person and that, at the end of the term.  But Sheriff Joe stands for the destruction of the rule of law.  He was imprisoned for contempt of a judge's authority.  With all the laxity of campaign financing, what's to keep a drug dealer from financing a presidential campaign, and then getting the president/governor to pardon him?  It's perfectly legal.

BTW...the suspicion is that Trump himself was given a 19.5% share of Rosnef Oil, the Russian Oil company for the Northern fields (richer than Saudi Arabia's Ghawar Field) to run for president and lift the sanctions, allowing the oil to flow to market.  The Russian company has a contract with Exxon-Mobil to extract the oil and get it to market, and who gets appointed Trump's Secretary of State?...the ex-CEO of Exxon-Mobil, Rex Tillerson, whom Trump has never met.  Bet that order came directly from the Kremlin.
the only actual direct links to the russians seem to be all in the DNC and clinton camp, but by all means keep trying.

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Post by Jules on Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:24 pm

Hi Quill.
I don't know much about this Arpaio guy, but I gather that he was an authoritarian dictator with a cruel despotic streak and he kept over-stepping the mark and defying the warnings he got from high court judges?

Even some republicans are criticising Trump for this pardoning. In fact I think one senator resigned over the matter.

I'll go and read all about it I need to catch up lol.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:28 pm

Deno wrote:the only actual direct links to the russians seem to be all in the DNC and clinton camp, but by all means keep trying.

You can't get closer than Trump's son and son-in-law, who met, along with his campaign manager, Paul Manafort, with Russian negotiators over hacked materials in Trump Tower, NYC, on June 9th, 2016.

I'm betting Trump is impeached before the end of his term.  He will try to use his pardon power for everyone involved, but remember there are 50-states to prosecute the many, various criminals...and the president cannot pardon for state charges...only federal.

Close your eyes and try to imagine Trump in an orange jump suit.  Get used to it.


Last edited by Original Quill on Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by The Devil, You Know on Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:28 pm

Jules wrote:Hi Quill.
I don't know much about this Arpaio guy, but I gather that he was an authoritarian dictator with a cruel despotic streak and he kept over-stepping the mark and defying the warnings he got from high court judges?

Even some republicans are criticising Trump for this pardoning. In fact I think one senator resigned over the matter.

I'll go and read all about it I need to catch up lol.
or he was a sheriff upholding the laws.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:31 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Jules wrote:Hi Quill.
I don't know much about this Arpaio guy, but I gather that he was an authoritarian dictator with a cruel despotic streak and he kept over-stepping the mark and defying the warnings he got from high court judges?

Even some republicans are criticising Trump for this pardoning. In fact I think one senator resigned over the matter.

I'll go and read all about it I need to catch up lol.
or he was a sheriff upholding the laws.

He was violating the laws and the Constitution.  That's why he ended up in prison.  Imagine Trump in that orange jump suit.  Sheriff Joe looked magnificent!

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by The Devil, You Know on Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:33 pm

Original Quill wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
or he was a sheriff upholding the laws.

He was violating the laws and the Constitution.  That's why he ended up in prison.  Imagine Trump in that orange jump suit.  Sheriff Joe looked magnificent!
no he was charged with contempt of court because he would not stop doing his job.
Some might say a politically motivated charge

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Post by Ben Reilly on Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:54 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
or he was a sheriff upholding the laws.

He was violating the laws and the Constitution.  That's why he ended up in prison.  Imagine Trump in that orange jump suit.  Sheriff Joe looked magnificent!
no he was charged with contempt of court because he would not stop doing his job.
Some might say a politically motivated charge

You might argue actually that he wouldn't start doing his job. Unless you think rounding up illegals in detention camps is more important than prosecuting child rapists:


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Post by Original Quill on Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:07 pm

He was a bad sheriff, no doubt.  But he was hauled into Federal Court for violating the Court's orders.  No one ever violates a direct order of a Federal District Court Judge.

Sheriff Joe will walk...briefly.  But, like OJ Simpson, he'll be harassed and picked up on charge after charge, until one of them sticks.  In the meantime he'll lose his home and assets paying the legal fees.

Both of Arizona's Senators have turned against him.  The Mayor of Phoenix is against him  He's persona non gratis, even in the most conservative of states.  When Trump is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors Sheriff Joe will be out ther on the limb with him.

He'll learn.  It's not nice to fook with a Federal District Judge.  Wink

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Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:24 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Jules wrote:Hi Quill.
I don't know much about this Arpaio guy, but I gather that he was an authoritarian dictator with a cruel despotic streak and he kept over-stepping the mark and defying the warnings he got from high court judges?

Even some republicans are criticising Trump for this pardoning. In fact I think one senator resigned over the matter.

I'll go and read all about it I need to catch up lol.
or he was a sheriff upholding the laws.
Rolling Eyes

You really are an idiot fascist, DYKbrain...

Amongst other previous charges and accusations on a state level, it was reported that he had a record of consistently rounding up and arresting innocents as well as the guilty, and often kept innocent people locked up for days on end without even charging them..

If that's your idea of only "doing his job", then that says as much about you as it does him !

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Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:27 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
no he was charged with contempt of court because he would not stop doing his job.
Some might say a politically motivated charge

You might argue actually that he wouldn't start doing his job. Unless you think rounding up illegals in detention camps is more important than prosecuting child rapists:

Idea

People like Trump and Arpaio -- and now, apparently, DYK as well -- aren't worried about sex offenders and common criminals...

Not as long as those campaign donations keep rolling on in..

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Post by Jules on Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:01 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Jules wrote:Hi Quill.
I don't know much about this Arpaio guy, but I gather that he was an authoritarian dictator with a cruel despotic streak and he kept over-stepping the mark and defying the warnings he got from high court judges?

Even some republicans are criticising Trump for this pardoning. In fact I think one senator resigned over the matter.

I'll go and read all about it I need to catch up lol.

or he was a sheriff upholding the laws.

No he did not uphold the law, he broke the law.
Repeatedly.
Which is what his criminal conviction was all about.
"He was only doing his job" is Trump's line.

Having to resort to borrowing lines from Trump of ALL people, is desperation.
Using the words of a capricious airhead to win an argument - oh boy, that's scraping the barrel.
Surely you are better than this??

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Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:20 pm

Trump pardons the crooks... 1284863816

DYKbrain can't help himself...

Like his troll deputies on here, he's a born 'hater'.

Hates democracy
Hates fairness and justice
Hates foreigners
Hates workers --  and their unions and politics..

He does seem to adore big business though, and big bosses, and big tax evaders.

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Post by Andy on Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:56 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Trump pardons the crooks... 1284863816

DYKbrain can't help himself...

Like his troll deputies on here, he's a born 'hater'.

Hates democracy
Hates fairness and justice
Hates foreigners
Hates workers --  and their unions and politics..

He does seem to adore big business though, and big bosses, and big tax evaders.

DYK Brain knows all about law break ing.
Hosting an anti - Muslim site from aMuslim country. I am sure his wife and the authorities would take a dim view of that if they were aware.
Not to mention his sanctioning of hacking, which resulted in a life ban for his most prolific poster (and fall guy) for the deed. And also Forumoion deleted huge swathes of his forum fo the misdemeanour.

It is easy to see why a crooked alt right fascist wolud support a crooked alt right fascist.
Cut from the same KKK Nazi cloth.

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Post by Jules on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:56 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
were you up in arms over the more than 1700 that obama pardoned, including dozens of coke and meth dealers. .

This post was not addressed to me but I'd like to comment. Some of those pardons were to reverse the monstrously unfair "3 strikes and you're out" rule. Sometimes all 3 of the crimes were quite petty.

Those incarcerated kids could not afford the sort of lawyers that the super-rich kids could. Wealth confers the ability to get away with murder, quite literally in some cases. Impoverished kids get away with nowt.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:57 am

I think the 3-strike thing is quite generous. After all, one gets three chances to keep to the law, and if someone can't do that, they're clearly a criminal.

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I think the 3-strike thing is quite generous. After all, one gets three chances to keep to the law, and if someone can't do that, they're clearly a criminal.

Well, it's a value judgement, true. Of course, it begs the question, should Deutsche Bank officials be in prison if they laundered three or more money transactions?

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Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:47 am

Trump pardons the crooks... 479860004

And on the other side of the divide, if police in NYC wanted to crack down on some petty hoodlums, back in the 1980s and '90s they had the reputation of using littering as the first "strike", and shooting somebody if they were running down the street --  because "only crooks/bad people run (on the streets..) in New York City"...

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:56 am

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I think the 3-strike thing is quite generous. After all, one gets three chances to keep to the law, and if someone can't do that, they're clearly a criminal.

Well, it's a value judgement, true.  Of course, it begs the question, should Deutsche Bank officials be in prison if they laundered three or more money transactions?

That would be one crime Quill. They'd probably go down for that anyway, but if they didn't, and then they did it again, and then a third time, I'd say they'd had more than enough chances. Laughing

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:04 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Well, it's a value judgement, true.  Of course, it begs the question, should Deutsche Bank officials be in prison if they laundered three or more money transactions?

That would be one crime Quill. They'd probably go down for that anyway, but if they didn't, and then they did it again, and then a third time, I'd say they'd had more than enough chances. Laughing

No, it would be one crime...several thousand counts.  Remember, it's takes only two crimes to constitute predicate acts for a Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) violation...usually one act of wire fraud, and one act of mail fraud will do fine.

I remain convinced that Trump and company will go down for this crime, encompassing all the others in this massive conspiracy.

However, it may be brought under the stale parallel laws in order to avoid Trump pardoning everyone:

FindLaw wrote:New York Racketeering / RICO Laws: The Basics

As with the federal law, New York law also criminalizes the offense referred to as "enterprise corruption." The enterprise corruption statute is New York's version of the federal RICO Act and was added to the Penal Law by the Organized Crime Control Act of 1986 to combat the "diversified illegal conduct engaged in by organized crime," including the infiltration and corruption of legitimate enterprises.

I'm counting on it! Laughing

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:10 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

That would be one crime Quill. They'd probably go down for that anyway, but if they didn't, and then they did it again, and then a third time, I'd say they'd had more than enough chances. Laughing

No, it would be one crime...several thousand counts.  Remember, it's takes only two crimes to constitute predicate acts for a Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) violation...usually one act of wire fraud, and one act of mail fraud will do fine.

I remain convinced that Trump and company will go down for this crime, encompassing all the others in this massive conspiracy.

However, it may be brought under the stale parallel laws in order to avoid Trump pardoning everyone:

FindLaw wrote:New York Racketeering / RICO Laws: The Basics

As with the federal law, New York law also criminalizes the offense referred to as "enterprise corruption." The enterprise corruption statute is New York's version of the federal RICO Act and was added to the Penal Law by the Organized Crime Control Act of 1986 to combat the "diversified illegal conduct engaged in by organized crime," including the infiltration and corruption of legitimate enterprises.

I'm counting on it! Laughing

Three strikes does not refer to the same crime, it refers to different crimes and convictions.

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:31 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

No, it would be one crime...several thousand counts.  Remember, it's takes only two crimes to constitute predicate acts for a Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) violation...usually one act of wire fraud, and one act of mail fraud will do fine.

I remain convinced that Trump and company will go down for this crime, encompassing all the others in this massive conspiracy.

However, it may be brought under the stale parallel laws in order to avoid Trump pardoning everyone:



I'm counting on it! Laughing

Three strikes does not refer to the same crime, it refers to different crimes and convictions.

I don't really care about three strikes, if we can nail the Trumpanzees on RICO Act violations.  RICO and two predicate violations, constitutes three-strikes...if we need it.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:33 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Three strikes does not refer to the same crime, it refers to different crimes and convictions.

I don't really care about three strikes, if we can nail the Trumpanzees on RICO Act violations.  RICO and two predicate violations, constitutes three-strikes...if we need it.

Then why did you reply to my post referring to it?

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:24 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I don't really care about three strikes, if we can nail the Trumpanzees on RICO Act violations.  RICO and two predicate violations, constitutes three-strikes...if we need it.

Then why did you reply to my post referring to it?

Who knows? Probably a passing comment.

I'm much more interested, in this thread, of ferreting out the various crimes that Trump and the Trumpanzees can be charged with. Also, negating his use of the Pardon Power.

But, coincidentally, one charge under RICO does involve three-strikes. Two predicate acts, and then the RICO count itself, equals three strikes.

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Post by Jules on Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:33 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I think the 3-strike thing is quite generous. After all, one gets three chances to keep to the law, and if someone can't do that, they're clearly a criminal.

Well, it's a value judgement, true.  Of course, it begs the question, should Deutsche Bank officials be in prison

if they laundered three or more money transactions?

Or 3 strikes for domestic violence???  Wink

If that rule was imported, some household names who have been entertaining us for decades would instead be rotting in jail - like Barrymore, comedian Jim  Davidson and footballer-turned-comedian Paul Gascoigne, among others.
They all viciously beat their wives.
And of course far right thugs beat just about everyone. The likes of Tommy Robinson would be doing life.

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Post by nicko on Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:51 pm

Far left thugs are just as bad, or haven't you noticed?
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Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:32 pm

nicko wrote:Far left thugs are just as bad, or haven't you noticed?

No, they are not.  Organized crime causes far more damage.  Who do you think is operating these human trafficking and sex trade rings?  Right...the notorious Russian Mafia.  The Russian Mafia that answers to 'iron-grip' Vladimir Putin, of whom "Pussy-Grabber" Trump is so fond.

The same Russian Mafia that (we are going to find) Trump launders money for in the New York and Florida real estate markets.  Those Russian state-run banks that Trump and Paul Manafort borrow money from to buy real estate, and sell back for a $50-million profit, are funded by Russian and Eastern European prostitution and slave operations.  Trump in Moscow, with the Miss Universe Pageant, was soooo prophetic.

Who knows what else is involved.  Drugs?  Fraud?  We don't know because Trump steadfastly refuses to release his tax returns.  Now we know why.

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Post by nicko on Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:58 pm

As Tommy would say, " Waffle" your getting quite good at that aren't you Quill? It appears that you have to answer every post weather you understand it or not !
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Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:23 am

nicko wrote:As Tommy would say,  " Waffle"    your getting quite good at that aren't you Quill?     It appears that you have to answer every post weather you understand it or not !

Haha...it's spelled "whether". "Weather" refers to meterology.  I had to read you 2 -3 times to get what you were saying.  Rolling Eyes

As for the topic, let's wait and see the score at the end.  I love watching the legal maneuvering.  There are some great legal questions going on here.

So far, my predictions are being fulfilled...Mueller is turning to New York State for a state law 'pardon-haven', as I predicted.  New York is the logical choice because (a) it's the Trump Headquarters; and (b) it duplicates almost every federal law.  Great place for forum shopping.  Mueller had to wait until Trump played the pardon card with Sheriff Joe, before making his move.  But he did it.

Now let's see if he picks up on my RICO suggestion.  

I feel like I should have joined the team.  cheers

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Post by Jules on Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:03 pm

nicko wrote:Far left thugs are just as bad, or haven't you noticed?

Nicko, no offence but you and I are hardly 'political soulmates' so the possibility that we would ever agree with each other's opinions is REMOTE.

So ... no point in you asking me questions about political matters,  imo.

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Post by Guest on Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:06 pm

Jules wrote:
nicko wrote:Far left thugs are just as bad, or haven't you noticed?

Nicko, no offence but you and I are hardly 'political soulmates' so the possibility that we would ever agree with each other's opinions is REMOTE.

So ... no point in you asking me questions about political matters,  imo.

Its a simple question, which does not require you being political soulmates.

Have you or have you not noticed the rise in Far Left violence?

Yes or no?

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Post by Jules on Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:33 pm

Thorin wrote:
Jules wrote:

Nicko, no offence but you and I are hardly 'political soulmates' so the possibility that we would ever agree with each other's opinions is REMOTE.

So ... no point in you asking me questions about political matters,  imo.

Its a simple question, which does not require you being political soulmates.

Have you or have you not noticed the rise in Far Left violence?

Yes or no?
Stop this nonsense Thorin.
If I want to answer, I would answer.
You are so bossy!
Who are you to jump in and DEMAND replies from people. like a school headmaster?


The reason I don't always reply is that I don't enjoy the constant arguing and fighting over political issues, it does my head in.
YOU clearly enjoy it and thrive on it, good for you, but we're not all like you.

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Post by Jules on Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:36 pm

nicko wrote:Far left thugs are just as bad, or haven't you noticed?

OK, I was actually going to reply to you just this once, before I was so rudely interrupted.

I notice everything.
I notice the thuggery of shaven headed skinhead rightwingers, many of whom have their origins in the football terraces.
Leftwingers have their origins from long haired pacifists who  said "peace, man" and "flower power" a lot,  smoked weed, campaigned for nuclear disarmament.  Yes they are more active nowadays, they are no longer ''pacifists'' but imo nowhere as violent as skinhead thugs.

I also notice the criminal records of a large number of far right activists in senior positions in groups like EDL & BF.
Finally I noticed that one BF member murdered a LW MP in cold blood.
So yes, nicko I do notice a lot of things.

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Post by Guest on Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:46 pm

Jules wrote:
nicko wrote:Far left thugs are just as bad, or haven't you [size=24]noticed?[size=24]

OK, I was actually going to reply to you just this once, before I was so rudely interrupted.

I notice everything.
I notice the thuggery of shaven headed skinhead rightwingers, many of whom have their origins in the football terraces.
Leftwingers have their origins from long haired pacifists who  said "peace, man" and "flower power" a lot,  smoked weed, campaigned for nuclear disarmament.  Yes they are more active nowadays, they are no longer ''pacifists'' but imo nowhere as violent as skinhead thugs.

I also notice the criminal records of a large number of far right activists in senior positions in groups like EDL & BF.
Finally I noticed that one BF member murdered a LW MP in cold blood.
So yes, nicko I do notice a lot of things.


Sorry but that does not even come close to understanding left wingers or Far left violence in history.

Or the rise in Far left violence at countless events throughout the west in the last few years.

I condemn any extremists, whether political or religious, but its so weird how those on the left continually down play Far left extremism and violence by them.

I condemn all Far Right extremism and violence. Where its a much bigger problem in the US than it is the UK

I suggest you take a trip back in history to where Far left wing groups started on their campaigns of violence. In the early 20th century, would be a good start.

By the by, there were many extremist and terrorist left wing groups in the sixties. All around the world.

Here, this is the New York Times from 1971.

http://www.nytimes.com/1971/01/03/archives/-the-socialism-of-fools-the-new-left-calls-it-antizionism-but-its.html?_r=0

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:13 pm

Jules wrote:The reason I don't always reply is that I don't enjoy the constant arguing and fighting over political issues, it does my head in.
YOU clearly enjoy it and thrive on it, good for you, but we're not all like you.

Besides, he's fookin' boring. Razz

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Post by Jules on Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Jules wrote:The reason I don't always reply is that I don't enjoy the constant arguing and fighting over political issues, it does my head in.
YOU clearly enjoy it and thrive on it, good for you, but we're not all like you.

Besides, he's fookin' boring.  Razz

His heart is probably in the right place and occasionally he speaks up for me.
But I find him too bossy and overbearing, sorry.

As for Nicko, he's quite welcome to talk to me about non-political matters if he wishes. We both seem to have a love of salad cream so at least that is one small thing we have in common.  Laughing  But there are some people here that I don't want to talk politics with, and he's one of them. The overlypassionate arguing & cursing proper does my head in.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:40 pm

Jules wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Besides, he's fookin' boring.  Razz

His heart is probably in the right place and occasionally he speaks up for me.
But I find him too bossy and overbearing, sorry.

As for Nicko, he's quite welcome to talk to me about non-political matters if he wishes. We both seem to have a love of salad cream so at least that is one small thing we have in common.  Laughing  But there are some people here that I don't want to talk politics with, and he's one of them. The overlypassionate arguing & cursing proper does my head in.

To be honest, there's no one here of the RW persuasion who is very good.  Deano is probably the best, and he only because he hears and carries over a lot from his own site.  He's good for a couple of posts, and then he seems to run out of gas. Like...it's second-hand, and he hasn't got the next answer.

Didge can't follow a train of thought.  Tommy is a yipper-dog.  We've got good women conservatives, but they linger in the gossip threads and don't get involved...least of all, American politics, where the real fun is these days. Twisted Evil

Eds is great.  I wish Ben were here more.  Wolf has a lot of information and a great take on things.  When sassy and the ES crowd were here it was really buzzing. cheers

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Post by Jules on Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:07 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Jules wrote:

His heart is probably in the right place and occasionally he speaks up for me.
But I find him too bossy and overbearing, sorry.

As for Nicko, he's quite welcome to talk to me about non-political matters if he wishes. We both seem to have a love of salad cream so at least that is one small thing we have in common.  Laughing  But there are some people here that I don't want to talk politics with, and he's one of them. The overlypassionate arguing & cursing proper does my head in.

To be honest, there's no one here of the RW persuasion who is very good.  Deano is probably the best, and he only because he hears and carries over a lot from his own site.  He's good for a couple of posts, and then he seems to run out of gas.  Like...it's second-hand, and he hasn't got the next answer.

Didge can't follow a train of thought.  Tommy is a yipper-dog.  We've got good women conservatives, but they linger in the gossip threads and don't get involved...least of all, American politics, where the real fun is these days.  Twisted Evil

Eds is great.  I wish Ben were here more.  Wolf has a lot of information and a great take on things.  When sassy and the ES crowd were here it was really buzzing.  cheers

Yes I focus more on US politics too.

Regarding political leanings, so many left leaning members have faded away in the past year.  
# Irn Bru was brilliant.
# 4ever was brilliant too (even tho she was often a pain).
# Sassy is quite good but she's poorly,
# scrat - I don't know him at all but he seemed quite feisty
# spindleshanks was great but he/she's gone,
# ziz has gone,
# and that nice lady sexymamma - we rarely see her on here.
# Korben was sweet but he's gone.


I reckon it upsets the LW/RW balance of a forum when so many LW leave but nemmind,  c'est la vie. Smile

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Trump pardons the crooks... Empty Re: Trump pardons the crooks...

Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:30 pm

I miss Irn, lots. Real friend. I hear he is a bit under weather.

Hell, I miss all of 'em.

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