So, When Did You Choose to be Straight?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:54 pm

First topic message reminder :

The question that reveals an important truth:


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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:08 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
sphinx wrote:

Wrong is whatever the majority of society thinks it is at the time they think it.

That is the point I am making.


I did not ask that, I asked "you" what is wrong and to define it?

Is society right to what is wrong?


I just did define wrong.

Wrong is whatever the majority of society thinks it is at the time.

50 years ago homosexuality was wrong
Now believing homosexuality is wrong is wrong and people are attacked for views that were the norm 50 years ago.

There have at various times in various places been just about every combination of right and wrong assigned to the various types of human sexuality - and every society has been and is utterly convinced that their definitions are the correct ones - even though to other societies who are equally convinced of their own correctness the other society has got it totally wrong.

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:12 pm

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

I did not ask that, I asked "you" what is wrong and to define it?

Is society right to what is wrong?


I just did define wrong.
No you defined a view
Wrong is whatever the majority of society thinks it is at the time.
Incorrect that is a perception of what a majority view thinks is wrong not what is actually defined as a wrong

50 years ago homosexuality was wrong
Now believing homosexuality is wrong is wrong and people are attacked for views that were the norm 50 years ago.
2000 years ago homosexuality was right not seen as wrong, so is your argument based upon era's in history? That does not define if something is wrong, that shows perceptions change, not how you would define what is wrong

There have at various times in various places been just about every combination of right and wrong assigned to the various types of human sexuality - and every society has been and is utterly convinced that their definitions are the  correct ones - even though to other societies who are equally convinced of their own correctness the other society has got it totally wrong.

Utter babble, I asked you a simple question, what is a wrong, define it?

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:22 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
sphinx wrote:

I just did define wrong.
No you defined a view
Wrong is whatever the majority of society thinks it is at the time.
Incorrect that is a perception of what a majority view thinks is wrong not what is actually defined as a wrong

50 years ago homosexuality was wrong
Now believing homosexuality is wrong is wrong and people are attacked for views that were the norm 50 years ago.
2000 years ago homosexuality was right not seen as wrong, so is your argument based upon era's in history? That does not define if something is wrong, that shows perceptions change, not how you would define what is wrong

There have at various times in various places been just about every combination of right and wrong assigned to the various types of human sexuality - and every society has been and is utterly convinced that their definitions are the  correct ones - even though to other societies who are equally convinced of their own correctness the other society has got it totally wrong.

Utter babble, I asked you a simple question, what is a wrong, define it?

For once you have accidentally stumbled over my meaning.

that shows perceptions change,

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:24 pm

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Utter babble, I asked you a simple question, what is a wrong, define it?

For once you have accidentally stumbled over my meaning.

that shows perceptions change,

Incorrect, I want to know the meaning of wrong, it is easily defined, hence why I want to educate you on this and show your previous points poor.

Again define the definition of wrong

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:25 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
sphinx wrote:

For once you have accidentally stumbled over my meaning.



Incorrect, I want to know the meaning of wrong, it is easily defined, hence why I want to educate you on this and show your previous points poor.

Again define the definition of wrong

No I am correct - you have tripped over my meaning.

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:29 pm

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Incorrect, I want to know the meaning of wrong, it is easily defined, hence why I want to educate you on this and show your previous points poor.

Again define the definition of wrong

No I am correct - you have tripped over my meaning.

No you are avoiding, define the definition of wrong?

Never clever to think you are being smart on psychology when as seen you do not understand it.

Try again, definition of wrong[/quote]

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:33 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
sphinx wrote:

No I am correct - you have tripped over my meaning.

No you are avoiding, define the definition of wrong?

Never clever to think you are being smart on psychology when as seen you do not understand it.

Try again, definition of wrong
[/quote]

My you do get upset when you actually do get my meaning dont you?

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:37 pm

sphinx wrote:

My you do get upset when you actually do get my meaning dont you?

Upset? lol laughing at your ignorance

No I actually love it when someone thinks they are being clever but a dickhead as you are now over views to right or wrongs in comparisons to homosexuality and Paedophilia, by questioning this, when you cannot answer a simple question to the definition of wrong?

Try again, you might actually learn something from this

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:39 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
sphinx wrote:

My you do get upset when you actually do get my meaning dont you?

Upset? lol laughing at your ignorance

No I actually love it when someone thinks they are being clever but a dickhead as you are now over views to right or wrongs in comparisons to homosexuality and Paedophilia, by questioning this, when you cannot answer a simple question to the definition of wrong?

Try again, you might actually learn something from this
If you are not upset why are you going on when I told you that you got it right?

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:42 pm

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Upset? lol laughing at your ignorance

No I actually love it when someone thinks they are being clever but a dickhead as you are now over views to right or wrongs in comparisons to homosexuality and Paedophilia, by questioning this, when you cannot answer a simple question to the definition of wrong?

Try again, you might actually learn something from this
If you are not upset why are you going on when I told you that you got it right?

Dear me, hun not upset, in fact have you over a barrel here, just leading you into lions den here which it seems you know you are hence your answers.

I want to see you define the definition of wrong .

When back tomorrow I will explain why, but am interested in your answer

So the word wrong, how is it defined

Byee

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:43 pm

OG GOD, another thread turned into all about didge/how good is didge.....

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:47 pm

grumpy old git wrote:OG GOD, another thread turned into all about didge/how good is didge.....

Oh its the old tree hugger with his obsession with me, bless.

No, not about me just Sphinx and what is the definition of wrong.

Best you get your cactus out again, those sexual needs won't be satisfied without it, so enjoy!

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:49 pm

grumpy old git wrote:OG GOD, another thread turned into all about didge/how good is didge.....

He did actually get my point this time - all be it accidentally.

Though that seems to have set him off claiming I am wrong about him getting the point

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:50 pm

so should homosexuals be cured.

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:51 pm

sphinx wrote:
grumpy old git wrote:OG GOD, another thread turned into all about didge/how good is didge.....

He did actually get my point this time - all be it accidentally.

Though that seems to have set him off claiming I am wrong about him getting the point

Oh dear, what a poor little copout and running away now.

Definition of wrong?

I am trying to show your view point was not only wrong but really absurd, hence you need to answer, then you might understand

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:51 pm

heavenly father wrote:so should homosexuals be cured.

What if they dont want to be cured and do not consider themselves to have an illness?

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:52 pm

sphinx wrote:
heavenly father wrote:so should homosexuals be cured.

What if they dont want to be cured and do not consider themselves to have an illness?

they are not an illness as you will understand that when you stop evading the definition of wrong.

Loving this.

 :D 

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:54 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
sphinx wrote:

He did actually get my point this time - all be it accidentally.

Though that seems to have set him off claiming I am wrong about him getting the point

Oh dear, what a poor little copout and running away now.

Definition of wrong?

I am trying to show your view point was not only wrong but really absurd, hence you need to answer, then you might understand

If my definition of wrong led you to get the point - which it did - then it was the correct definition. I do not need to answer any more because I already understand and what is more have expressed my point in a way that meant you got it.

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:57 pm

sphinx wrote:
heavenly father wrote:so should homosexuals be cured.

What if they dont want to be cured and do not consider themselves to have an illness?

they are clearly faulty wired as heterosexual is the norm, if they can be cured by mending the wiring why wouldn't they want to be, as their life is so difficult as it is..

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:58 pm

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Oh dear, what a poor little copout and running away now.

Definition of wrong?

I am trying to show your view point was not only wrong but really absurd, hence you need to answer, then you might understand

If my definition of wrong led you to get the point - which it did - then it was the correct definition.  I do not need to answer any more because I already understand and what is more have expressed my point in a way that meant you got it.

You have yet failed to define its definition, when you do then I can help you understand your error here being cocky when I actually think you know where I am leading you, hence your avoidance.

Really have to go, but really am looking forward to your next excuse, will pick up tomorrow.

Have good evening

 :D 

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:00 pm

heavenly father wrote:so should homosexuals be cured.

What do you think about heterosexual people that indulge in anal sex?

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:00 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
sphinx wrote:

If my definition of wrong led you to get the point - which it did - then it was the correct definition.  I do not need to answer any more because I already understand and what is more have expressed my point in a way that meant you got it.

You have yet failed to define its definition, when you do then I can help you understand your error here being  cocky when I actually think you know where I am leading you, hence your avoidance.

Really have to go, but really am looking forward to your next excuse, will pick up tomorrow.

Have good evening

 :D 

How can leading you to get the point be an error?

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:03 pm

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

You have yet failed to define its definition, when you do then I can help you understand your error here being  cocky when I actually think you know where I am leading you, hence your avoidance.

Really have to go, but really am looking forward to your next excuse, will pick up tomorrow.

Have good evening

 :D 

How can leading you to get the point be an error?

Easily done so, I guess you do not know then.

Okay I will change the question to help you, have wrongs been done to you?

By that define wrong.

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:05 pm

Catman wrote:
heavenly father wrote:so should homosexuals be cured.

What do you think about heterosexual people that indulge in anal sex?

thats their business phil and nothing to do with the topic.

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:06 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
sphinx wrote:

How can leading you to get the point be an error?

Easily done so, I guess you do not know then.

Okay I will change the question to help you, have wrongs been done to you?

By that define wrong.

What has that got to do with sexuality?

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:08 pm

sphinx wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Easily done so, I guess you do not know then.

Okay I will change the question to help you, have wrongs been done to you?

By that define wrong.

What has that got to do with sexuality?

We are going to lead to that point when you inform the forum if you have ever been wronged.

So have you been wronged?

If yes define it.

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:09 pm

I get wronged every time someone fails to understand me.

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:10 pm

sphinx wrote:I get wronged every time someone fails to understand me.

Do you, define that?

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:12 pm

Its that perception thing you understood earlier.

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:13 pm

sphinx wrote:Its that perception thing you understood earlier.

I never asked for a perception, I asked if you have had wrongs done to you and to define it!

Are you saying now there is no such thing as a wrong or that is has no definition?

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:17 pm

Sorry will have to wait until tomorrow, have to go, late already, I do hope you stop avoiding though the questions and actually answer sphinx

Take care

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:18 pm

sphinx wrote:I get wronged every time someone fails to understand me.

That's bullshit.

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:19 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
sphinx wrote:I get wronged every time someone fails to understand me.

That's bullshit.

See?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:19 pm

sphinx wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
sphinx wrote:I get wronged every time someone fails to understand me.

That's bullshit.

See?

See what? Sometimes people don't understand what you're expressing, that doesn't mean they've done anything wrong to you.

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:22 pm

I do believe paedophiles are born that way. Further, I do not believe there is a cure. Same with gay people; no cure. The problem then is 'what to do' with paedophiles?

Well and offender should be locked in some mental institute for life imo, since they have crossed the line of harming another. As for someone who is that way inclined and feels unable to control themselves indefinitely, well then the only solution is surely the same.

It is a difficult area but if someone does have those feelings they ARE a danger to society.

Obviously just because someone is 'born' a paedophile does not means they warrant rights- their condition means they eventually will harm another- whereas homosexual relationships do not involve a victim.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:23 pm

heavenly father wrote:
sphinx wrote:
heavenly father wrote:so should homosexuals be cured.

What if they dont want to be cured and do not consider themselves to have an illness?

they are clearly faulty wired as heterosexual is the norm, if they can be cured by mending the wiring why wouldn't they want to be, as their life is so difficult as it is..

Homosexuality is the norm as well:

What do Ben Franklin, the Utah state bird, and the Supreme Court all have in common? And what does any of that have to do with gay rights? It's only natural that you should ask. Over 250 years ago, Franklin invented the lightning rod. Back then, some people objected strongly to its use as being presumptuous and against the will of God. Downright unnatural, one might say.

Franklin retorted in the classic prose of his time. "[Nollet (who had opposed lightning rods)] seems to apply to the superstitious Prejudices of the Populace. . . He speaks as if he thought it Presumption in Man, to propose guarding himself against the Thunders of Heaven! Surely the Thunder of Heaven is no more supernatural than the Rain, Hail or Sunshine of Heaven, against the Inconveniencies of which we guard by Roofs and Shades without Scruple" (read)

Agreed: Lightning rods are unnatural. So too are houses, umbrellas, and clothes.

But homosexuality is not.

From a scientific perspective, all homosexual behavior is biological. That's a truism, of course. Same-sex attraction, like all behaviors and cognition, requires a functioning nervous system. There are no homosexual umbrellas. Furthermore, much but not all same-same sex attraction is probably based in genetics or epigenetics, with predispositions established before birth.

Far from being a "sin against nature," homosexuality is more natural than the sexual abstinence imposed by many human cultures, and more natural than their many artifacts.

The TV show has it wrong, but not in the ways some folks think. Homosexuality is not a "new normal." It's an old one.

Homosexual behavior is ubiquitous throughout the animal kingdom. It occurs in numerous species from worms to primates, including the Utah state bird, the seagull (Read). Bonobos (previously called pygmy chimpanzees) are one of human's closest cousins, sharing nearly 99 percent of our DNA. Nearly all bonobos are bisexual, and some engage in homosexual behavior almost hourly (Read).

It seems unlikely that's the result of a bonobo ACLU, or a bonobo militant homosexual "agenda."

So, new rule: Folks can't rightly complain against "unnatural" homosexual behaviors unless they themselves are living outdoors 24-7-365 and walking around buck naked.

http://www.standard.net/stories/2013/03/22/homosexuality-biologically-natural-not-deviant

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:24 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
sphinx wrote:

See?

See what? Sometimes people don't understand what you're expressing, that doesn't mean they've done anything wrong to you.

That is your perception.

Which was my point.

Which didge got (accidentally)

Which he has spent the last hour trying to prove he got because I communicated it in the wrong way.

By his logic if he got my point by me communicating in the the wrong way that makes him right and me wrong.

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:25 pm

Eilzel wrote:I do believe paedophiles are born that way. Further, I do not believe there is a cure. Same with gay people; no cure. The problem then is 'what to do' with paedophiles?

Well and offender should be locked in some mental institute for life imo, since they have crossed the line of harming another. As for someone who is that way inclined and feels unable to control themselves indefinitely, well then the only solution is surely the same.

It is a difficult area but if someone does have those feelings they ARE a danger to society.

Obviously just because someone is 'born' a paedophile does not means they warrant rights- their condition means they eventually will harm another- whereas homosexual relationships do not involve a victim.

So in other words no human has the right to have what they consider pleasurable sexual encounters.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:26 pm

sphinx wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
sphinx wrote:

See?

See what? Sometimes people don't understand what you're expressing, that doesn't mean they've done anything wrong to you.

That is your perception.

Which was my point.

Which didge got (accidentally)

Which he has spent the last hour trying to prove he got because I communicated it in the wrong way.

By his logic if he got my point by me communicating in the the wrong way that makes him right and me wrong.

OK, my perception is also that you wouldn't know logic if it came up and bit your ass. You can't prove I'm not right.

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:27 pm

Surely the definition of wrong depends entirely upon your point of view. It may even consist of a number of definitions

what an individual considers wrong may not coincide with what society considers wrong at some point.
what society considers wrong is dependant upon circumstance

society sends the message it is wrong to kill, for instance
but then it says "except when"
but to the Jain there is no "except when"

the romans considered paedophillia acceptable; wrong by todays standards of course, but non the less by their standards .......

as an interesting aside, how many of you have ever played RPG's??

when you "generate a character" you pick an alignment that is to say a moral out look for it.

this is usually from the set of

lawful good, neutral good or chaotic good
OR true nutral
OR lawful evil, neutral evil or chaotic evil

Now both lawful good AND lawful evil would state that THEIR version of what is right and wrong is valid

So given the moral choice of trying (at risk of spreading the disease) to cure a plagued village or burn it to the ground inhabitants and all

the lawful good paladin would be unable to decide, since both choices lead to possibly appalling consequences and both sets of consequences are contrary to the rigid code of lawful good (DO NO HARM)
the lawful evil sorcerer would ALSO be unable to decide because both choices lead to consequences which go against HIS code of lawful evil...(DO NO HARM, IF IT DOES YOU NO GOOD)(since killing the village and hence the plague would rob him of a useful weapon AND allowing it to spread unchecked would rob him of potential subjects)

Both are selfish choices since they ignore the rule of "the greatest good for the greatest number"

So defining "wrong" is not as straightforward as some may think.

moreover...

homosexuality between consenting adults harms no-one
Paedophillia clearly does

there is no NEED to "cure" homosexuality Especially since any such cure FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGES WHO THE PERSON IS(and actually benefits nobody)
there is need to cure paedophillia EVEN IF IT FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGES WHO THE PERSON IS(since it would benfit potential victims AND the subject.

Just like there is no need to "cure" left handedness (since it harms no one and curing it benefits no-one)
but there IS need to cure paranoid schizophrenia (since it can cause harm for others and curing (or at least controlling it) benefits potential victims AND the subject)

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:27 pm

sphinx wrote:
Eilzel wrote:I do believe paedophiles are born that way. Further, I do not believe there is a cure. Same with gay people; no cure. The problem then is 'what to do' with paedophiles?

Well and offender should be locked in some mental institute for life imo, since they have crossed the line of harming another. As for someone who is that way inclined and feels unable to control themselves indefinitely, well then the only solution is surely the same.

It is a difficult area but if someone does have those feelings they ARE a danger to society.

Obviously just because someone is 'born' a paedophile does not means they warrant rights- their condition means they eventually will harm another- whereas homosexual relationships do not involve a victim.

So in other words no human has the right to have what they consider pleasurable sexual encounters.

WHAT??!!

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:27 pm

sphinx wrote:
Eilzel wrote:I do believe paedophiles are born that way. Further, I do not believe there is a cure. Same with gay people; no cure. The problem then is 'what to do' with paedophiles?

Well and offender should be locked in some mental institute for life imo, since they have crossed the line of harming another. As for someone who is that way inclined and feels unable to control themselves indefinitely, well then the only solution is surely the same.

It is a difficult area but if someone does have those feelings they ARE a danger to society.

Obviously just because someone is 'born' a paedophile does not means they warrant rights- their condition means they eventually will harm another- whereas homosexual relationships do not involve a victim.

So in other words no human has the right to have what they consider pleasurable sexual encounters.

Where did I say that.

Humans have every right to have what they consider pleasurable encounters with other consenting adults.

I don't think I can be clearer than that.

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:27 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

they are clearly faulty wired as heterosexual is the norm, if they can be cured by mending the wiring why wouldn't they want to be, as their life is so difficult as it is..

Homosexuality is the norm as well:

What do Ben Franklin, the Utah state bird, and the Supreme Court all have in common?  And what does any of that have to do with gay rights? It's only natural that you should ask. Over 250 years ago, Franklin invented the lightning rod.  Back then, some people objected strongly to its use as being presumptuous and against the will of God.  Downright unnatural, one might say.  

Franklin retorted in the classic prose of his time. "[Nollet (who had opposed lightning rods)] seems to apply to the superstitious Prejudices of the Populace. . . He speaks as if he thought it Presumption in Man, to propose guarding himself against the Thunders of Heaven! Surely the Thunder of Heaven is no more supernatural than the Rain, Hail or Sunshine of Heaven, against the Inconveniencies of which we guard by Roofs and Shades without Scruple" (read)

Agreed: Lightning rods are unnatural. So too are houses, umbrellas, and clothes.

But homosexuality is not.

From a scientific perspective, all homosexual behavior is biological. That's a truism, of course.  Same-sex attraction, like all behaviors and cognition, requires a functioning nervous system. There are no homosexual umbrellas.  Furthermore, much but not all same-same sex attraction is probably based in genetics or epigenetics, with predispositions established before birth.

Far from being a "sin against nature," homosexuality is more natural than the sexual abstinence imposed by many human cultures, and more natural than their many artifacts.

The TV show has it wrong, but not in the ways some folks think. Homosexuality is not a "new normal." It's an old one.

Homosexual behavior is ubiquitous throughout the animal kingdom. It occurs in numerous species from worms to primates, including the Utah state bird, the seagull (Read). Bonobos (previously called pygmy chimpanzees) are one of human's closest cousins, sharing nearly 99 percent of our DNA. Nearly all bonobos are bisexual, and some engage in homosexual behavior almost hourly (Read).

It seems unlikely that's the result of a bonobo ACLU, or a bonobo militant homosexual "agenda."

So, new rule: Folks can't rightly complain against "unnatural" homosexual behaviors unless they themselves are living outdoors 24-7-365 and walking around buck naked.

http://www.standard.net/stories/2013/03/22/homosexuality-biologically-natural-not-deviant

And the same arguments can be applied to paedophilia.

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:28 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
sphinx wrote:

That is your perception.

Which was my point.

Which didge got (accidentally)

Which he has spent the last hour trying to prove he got because I communicated it in the wrong way.

By his logic if he got my point by me communicating in the the wrong way that makes him right and me wrong.

OK, my perception is also that you wouldn't know logic if it came up and bit your ass. You can't prove I'm not right.

Exactly. Unfortunately I cannot prove that you right either - even though you are.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:31 pm

sphinx wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

they are clearly faulty wired as heterosexual is the norm, if they can be cured by mending the wiring why wouldn't they want to be, as their life is so difficult as it is..

Homosexuality is the norm as well:

What do Ben Franklin, the Utah state bird, and the Supreme Court all have in common?  And what does any of that have to do with gay rights? It's only natural that you should ask. Over 250 years ago, Franklin invented the lightning rod.  Back then, some people objected strongly to its use as being presumptuous and against the will of God.  Downright unnatural, one might say.  

Franklin retorted in the classic prose of his time. "[Nollet (who had opposed lightning rods)] seems to apply to the superstitious Prejudices of the Populace. . . He speaks as if he thought it Presumption in Man, to propose guarding himself against the Thunders of Heaven! Surely the Thunder of Heaven is no more supernatural than the Rain, Hail or Sunshine of Heaven, against the Inconveniencies of which we guard by Roofs and Shades without Scruple" (read)

Agreed: Lightning rods are unnatural. So too are houses, umbrellas, and clothes.

But homosexuality is not.

From a scientific perspective, all homosexual behavior is biological. That's a truism, of course.  Same-sex attraction, like all behaviors and cognition, requires a functioning nervous system. There are no homosexual umbrellas.  Furthermore, much but not all same-same sex attraction is probably based in genetics or epigenetics, with predispositions established before birth.

Far from being a "sin against nature," homosexuality is more natural than the sexual abstinence imposed by many human cultures, and more natural than their many artifacts.

The TV show has it wrong, but not in the ways some folks think. Homosexuality is not a "new normal." It's an old one.

Homosexual behavior is ubiquitous throughout the animal kingdom. It occurs in numerous species from worms to primates, including the Utah state bird, the seagull (Read). Bonobos (previously called pygmy chimpanzees) are one of human's closest cousins, sharing nearly 99 percent of our DNA. Nearly all bonobos are bisexual, and some engage in homosexual behavior almost hourly (Read).

It seems unlikely that's the result of a bonobo ACLU, or a bonobo militant homosexual "agenda."

So, new rule: Folks can't rightly complain against "unnatural" homosexual behaviors unless they themselves are living outdoors 24-7-365 and walking around buck naked.

http://www.standard.net/stories/2013/03/22/homosexuality-biologically-natural-not-deviant

And the same arguments can be applied to paedophilia.

Pedophilia is not victimless. Countless victims of child predators have spoken out about their trauma -- is there some way you could possibly have missed this?

It's all about consent, an issue you seem not to want to discuss. That's the big black line between what's acceptable and unacceptable.

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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:32 pm

sphinx wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

OK, my perception is also that you wouldn't know logic if it came up and bit your ass. You can't prove I'm not right.

Exactly.  Unfortunately I cannot prove that you right either - even though you are.

Yet cannot define a wrong or if any wrong has been done to you


You really have no idea where I am leading you with this, which is amusing even grumpy is clueless on this

Try again will await with anticipation your answers

First you must declare if wrongs have been done to you, then define why

Stop being a copout

Untill tomorrow


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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:35 pm

grumpy old git wrote:Surely the definition of wrong depends entirely upon your point of view. It may even consist of a number of definitions

what an individual considers wrong may not coincide with what society considers wrong at some point.
what society considers wrong is dependant upon circumstance

society sends the message it is wrong to kill, for instance
but then it says "except when"
but to the Jain there is no "except when"

the romans considered paedophillia acceptable; wrong by todays standards of course, but non the less by their standards .......

as an interesting aside, how many of you have ever played RPG's??

when you "generate a character" you pick an alignment that is to say a moral out look for it.

this is usually from the set of

lawful good, neutral good or chaotic good
OR true nutral
OR lawful evil, neutral evil or chaotic evil

Now both lawful good AND lawful evil would state that THEIR version of what is right and wrong is valid

So given the moral choice of trying (at risk of spreading the disease) to cure a plagued village or burn it to the ground inhabitants and all

the lawful good paladin would be unable to decide, since both choices lead to possibly appalling consequences and both sets of consequences are contrary to the rigid code of lawful good (DO NO HARM)
the lawful evil sorcerer would ALSO be unable to decide because both choices lead to consequences which go against HIS code of lawful evil...(DO NO HARM, IF IT DOES YOU NO GOOD)(since killing the village and hence the plague would rob him of a useful weapon AND allowing it to spread unchecked would rob him of potential subjects)

Both are selfish choices since they ignore the rule of "the greatest good for the greatest number"

So defining "wrong" is not as straightforward as some may think.

moreover...

homosexuality between consenting adults harms no-one
Paedophillia clearly does

there is no NEED to "cure" homosexuality Especially since any such cure FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGES WHO THE PERSON IS(and actually benefits nobody)
there is need to cure paedophillia EVEN IF IT FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGES WHO THE PERSON IS(since it would benfit potential victims AND the subject.

Just like there is no need to "cure" left handedness (since it harms no one and curing it benefits no-one)
but there IS need to cure paranoid schizophrenia (since it can cause harm for others and curing (or at least controlling it) benefits potential victims AND the subject)

9 out of 10 there - there are a large number of paranoid schizophrenics who would be incredibly unhappy at your last bit - seeing as the vast majority of sufferers are of no risk to anyone and feel that medication used to control symptoms does harm them as individuals.

I will also draw attention to the argument put forward by others that because our society does consider child sex wrong any and all evidence that it does not always harm the subjects will be rejected or hidden instead of being openly debated and considered.


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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:37 pm

Yet cannot define a wrong or if any wrong has been done to you


You really have no idea where I am leading you with this, which is amusing even grumpy is clueless on this

Try again will await with anticipation your answers

First you must declare if wrongs have been done to you, then define why

Stop being a copout

Until tomorrow


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Post by Guest on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:44 pm

I will leave a few points for sphinx to think about before I go.

Is it right or wrong to breath oxygen for a human to survive?

Now sphinx thinks wrongs is just a perception, but it has a definition, which will help set her free here

Byeee see you all tomorrow


Last edited by PhilDidge on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:46 pm

sphinx wrote:I will also draw attention to the argument put forward by others that because our society does consider child sex wrong any and all evidence that it does not always harm the subjects will be rejected or hidden instead of being openly debated and considered.


All I've ever seen is that some victims find it easier to overcome than we might expect -- which, while a good thing in itself, is certainly no reason to reconsider any law. There are still countless horror stories from victims; more than enough to justify banning sex with children (for crying out loud).

That's besides the fact that children are scientifically proven to lack adults' ability to weigh the consequences of their actions. So even children who might think they want to be with an adult should be protected from adults who might take advantage of them.

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