National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

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National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:16 am

THE NATIONAL Trust sacked a loyal gardener who had worked on a historic estate and had “over 50 years experience” because he did not have “the right qualifications”.

Shute Barton, described by the Trust as “medieval house with later architectural features”, has been managed by the conservation organisation since 2009.

The gardener, who did not want to be named, lost his job when Christopher Pole-Carew and his wife did not renew their lease on the ancestral property.

The horticulture experts friend Ann Heath told The Telegraph: "He was doing it for a long, long time before it went over to the National Trust and as soon as they took over they said he couldn't do it because he didn't have any degrees or anything.

"He had a ride-on mower that he used to cut the grass and he used to cut back the brambles around the lawn as well, to keep it all tidy.

"Perhaps it was health and safety, but what could you do with a ride-on mower?"

The issue was raised by one of the paper’s readers who wrote: "My gardener with over 50 years experience has been told by the National Trust he can no longer cut their grass as he doesn't have the right qualifications. Perhaps he should have taken a degree.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/843165/national-trust-gardener-loyal-shute-barton-needed-qualifications-sacked-health-and-safety
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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:17 am

How utterly ridiculous! It's like after all those years of loyal work, he's been shoved on the scrap heap.
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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by Thorin on Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:21 am

HoratioTarr wrote:How utterly ridiculous!    It's like after all those years of loyal work, he's been shoved on the scrap heap.


So really the family who sold it on should be blamed here, for not paying to have him sit for the relevant qualifications whilst working for them? They thus sold this on to the trust, no doubt knowing they were going to fuck him over? They had years to resolve this and did nothing.

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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by magica on Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:25 am

What qualifications does he need to cut grass. Bloody stupid.

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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by Thorin on Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:29 am

magica wrote:What qualifications does he need to cut grass. Bloody stupid.


Many these days when they operate machinery that moves.
The fault is not with him, but the previous owners.
As they were breaking the law employing someone who was not qualified.
Do you now want to allow anyone to do this roles with out the necessary qualifications?
He would rightly still have his role, if the previous owners had not been tight fisted wankers and paid for him to  take said courses. 

They took advantage of him and have now left him out to dry. He is not in the wrong, his previous owners are.
Do you want the law to change for just one person?

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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:17 am



He has been doing the job for years before the 'qualifications' even existed!!!


Ridiculous to say he is not qualified.


While...


http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/max-verstappen-become-f1s-youngest-ever-4073034

And...

http://www.newageman.co.uk/articles/lewis-hamilton-never-actually-passed-his-driving-test


Laughing



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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by Thorin on Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:20 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

He has been doing the job for years before the 'qualifications' even existed!!!


Ridiculous to say he is not qualified.


While...


http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/max-verstappen-become-f1s-youngest-ever-4073034

And...

http://www.newageman.co.uk/articles/lewis-hamilton-never-actually-passed-his-driving-test


Laughing




So all the people who have to get qualified can lay claim to the same in any job then Tommy on previous experience?

The fault is not with the Gardner, the fault is with his previous employers, failing to ensure he had all up to dat relevant qualifications to carry out his work

So what happens if he has an accident Tommy, under the new ownership and they allowed him to work without the necessary qualifications?

Tale you time

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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:41 am

While I gave 2 examples of F1 drivers who didnt even have regular road driving licences...!?


Next you'll be telling me that Keith Richards can't play guitar at a Rolling Stones gig, because he doesnt have any music qualifications...!!!


Laughing



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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by Thorin on Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:55 am

Tommy Monk wrote:While I gave 2 examples of F1 drivers who didnt even have regular road driving licences...!?


Next you'll be telling me that Keith Richards can't play guitar at a Rolling Stones gig, because he doesnt have any music qualifications...!!!


Laughing



So your examples are on where they should have licences?

So the law needs to change in F1 then Tommy?

Why would they need road licences Tommy?

Take your time

Doh

Sorry but are you making that equivalent to this job?


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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:29 am

flower

There is no such animal as a "degree" in gardening, greenkeeping  and groundsmanship...

(A horticulture degree is not the same thing, as it includes science, economics and communications subjects that go above and beyond the more practical knowledge base required by gardeners and groundsmen --  and is aimed more towards research, development and extension work, and teaching jobs..).

As gardening and greenkeeping subjects, and practical training, are normally taught at Technical/"Polytechnic" level colleges, they are normally the qualifications you would look to (not the more theory-based Uni' courses..),  often those colleges will have "grandfather" conditions, where they can grant trade-level certificates to people with long experience and demonstrated practical experience, often after some interviews and observation by some of their lecturers/examiners.

(As for 'tickets' and licences for such things as mowers, chainsaws, pesticides, and OH&S/WHS, these are often examined by 3rd-party assessors..).

When I see some groups like those National Trust nongs dismissing someone on such trumped-up excuses as in this case, setting much higher qualifications than are actually required for the job, I have to wonder if they already had one of their idiot nephews or cousins in line for that job  ???

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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:02 am

The National Trust aren't doing very well these days when it comes to how they treat employees and volunteers.

Do you actually need a qualification to use a ride-on lawnmower?

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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:21 am

Raggamuffin wrote:The National Trust aren't doing very well these days when it comes to how they treat employees and volunteers.

Do you actually need a qualification to use a ride-on lawnmower?
Idea

While you don't usually need any training/qualification to use things like mowers, brushcutters, mulchers/woodchippers, chainsaws and the likes in most private/domestic/personal situations, in many countries these days, once you are in a paid position/professional work/trade-related work,
you may be required to have specific "tickets" for using certain equipment, as well as site induction/orientation/OH&S instruction for particular jobs..


Even in volunteer work, and on many gov't sites and company sites, the minimum might be some OH&S induction, if only to meet insurance company demands.

Just imagine, these days anybody can walk into a hardware store or an Aldi's supermarket, and walk out with a chainsaw or circular saw, with zero training..

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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by Angry Andy on Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:51 am

Raggamuffin wrote:The National Trust aren't doing very well these days when it comes to how they treat employees and volunteers.

Do you actually need a qualification to use a ride-on lawnmower?
No.
I drive a Toro ride on mower to cut my cricket outfield. You sign an indemnity upon hiring it that you have read the H&S implications and have demonstrated to the owner that you are competent.
Thorin, as usual, is talking out of his arae, from a position  of lack of knowledge and experience and is arguing for the sake of it.
As usual , he seems to think he is an expert on ride on mower qualifications

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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by Thorin on Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:57 am

Angry Andy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:The National Trust aren't doing very well these days when it comes to how they treat employees and volunteers.

Do you actually need a qualification to use a ride-on lawnmower?
No.
I drive a Toro ride on mower to cut my cricket outfield. You sign an indemnity upon hiring it that you have read the H&S implications and have demonstrated to the owner that you are competent.
Thorin, as usual, is talking out of his arae, from a position  of lack of knowledge and experience and is arguing for the sake of it.
As usual , he seems to think he is an expert on ride on mower qualifications

So as per usual all you can do is insult and not even prove I am wrong on anything I have said.

Never claimed people need to have mower qualifications.

What did I actually say dummy?

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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by Angry Andy on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:10 am

I am not hanging around on a beautiful sunny summers day arguing with the forum mass debater. Too nice to be inside on a laptop spoiljng for a fight. 
I am sure you have plenty of threads already to weild your vast and wide knowledge on.
Just looked. 
Yes you are involved in lots of ( most) threads.

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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by Thorin on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:12 am

Angry Andy wrote:I am not hanging around on a beautiful sunny summers day arguing with the forum mass debater. Too nice to be inside on a laptop spoiljng for a fight. 
I am sure you have plenty of threads already to weild your vast and wide knowledge on.
Just looked. 
Yes you are involved in lots of ( most) threads.

So why are you replying then?
Contradiction again
The simple fact is there was nothing wrong with what I said and I feel sorry for the man and how he was let down by his former employees.

So go and enjoy the sun

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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by Lord Foul on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:29 am

most of this type of machinery needs nothing more than some sort of cetificate of competance, which can often be got at the point of hire/purchase. hell when I wa sworking for an electronics firm I hired a driveable hoist and got a ticket for it there and then.

also many of these tools carry "grandfather rights" , where some one with years of experience with one automatically is assumed to be able to handle it, since they survided that long and havnt given any visitors an unwanted hair cut..

I have "grandfather rights" with using a chainsaw FGS, not to mention "grandfather rights" with my driving licence for towing large trailers etc.


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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:32 pm

Lord Foul wrote:most of this type of machinery needs nothing more than some sort of cetificate of competance, which can often be got at the point of hire/purchase. hell when I wa sworking for an electronics firm I hired a driveable hoist and got a ticket for it there and then.

also many of these tools carry "grandfather rights" , where some one with years of experience with one automatically is assumed to be able to handle it, since they survided that long and havnt given any visitors an unwanted hair cut..

I have "grandfather rights" with using a chainsaw FGS, not to mention "grandfather rights" with my driving licence for towing large trailers etc.

Arrow

The certificates of competency are often referred to as "tockets" of competency by trade unions, training groups and labour hire companies down here (and I believe in parts of North America and NZ, as well..). When some workplaces have their workers gather those certificates and tickets together into a little book or folder, it is sometimes nick named a work "passport"..

I've got a Dogman's/crane-chasers' certificate, an excavator ticket, and a builder's labourer/building site "white card" (OH&S ticket..), and I've had certificates for things like 'confined spaces' and working at heights/vertical rescue (some of them are like first aid certificates -- have to renewed every 2 or 3 years..).

I've done some chainsaw training with a local SES rescue group, but haven't got that certificate as yet.

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Re: National Trust sacks gardener with '50 years experience as he did not have qualifications'

Post by Miffs2 on Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:38 pm

Seems another ludicrous decision from the NT
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