War in Virginia

Page 3 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Go down

War in Virginia

Post by Original Quill on Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

The New York Times wrote:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG and BRIAN M. ROSENTHALAUG. 12, 2017

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. — Violence erupted on Saturday as hundreds of white nationalists had gathered here for a rally and clashed with counterprotesters, resulting in at least one death and prompting the governor to declare a state of emergency.

After the rally at a city park was dispersed, a car plowed into a crowd near the city’s downtown mall, killing at least one person and injuring at least 19 others, according to a spokeswoman for the University of Virginia Medical Center. The authorities did not immediately say whether the episode was related to the white nationalists’ demonstration, but several witnesses and video of the scene suggested that it might have been intentional.

Emergency medical personnel treated eight people, the Charlottesville Police Department said. It was not immediately clear how severely they had been hurt. Several area hospitals did not return telephone calls seeking information.

Witnesses said a crowd of counterdemonstrators, jubilant because the white nationalists had left, was moving up Fourth Street, near the mall, when a gray sports car came down the road and accelerated, mowing down several people and hurling at least two in the air.

“It was probably the scariest thing I’ve ever seen in my life,” said Robert Armengol, who was at the scene reporting for a podcast he hosts with students at the University of Virginia. “After that it was pandemonium. The car hit reverse and sped and everybody who was up the street in my direction started running.”

Saturday afternoon, after initially issuing a brief denunciation on Twitter, President Trump, speaking at the start of a veterans’ event at his golf club in Bedminister, N.J., again addressed what he described as “the terrible events unfolding in Charlottesville, Virginia.”

In his comments, President Trump condemned the bloody protests, but he did not specifically criticize the white nationalist rally and its neo-Nazi slogans beyond blaming “hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides.”

“It’s been going on for a long time in our country, it’s not Donald Trump, it’s not Barack Obama,” said Mr. Trump, adding that he had been in contact with Virginia officials. After calling for the “swift restoration of law and order,” he offered a call for unity among Americans of “all races, creeds and colors.”

The demonstration, which both organizers and critics had said was the largest gathering of white nationalists in recent years, was organized to protest the planned removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee from a city park that once bore the name of the Confederate general, but was renamed Emancipation Park.

The turmoil in Charlottesville began with a march Friday night by white nationalists on the campus of the University of Virginia and escalated Saturday morning as demonstrators from both sides gathered in the park. Waving Confederate flags, chanting Nazi-era slogans, wearing helmets and carrying shields, the white nationalists converged on the Lee statue and began chanting phrases like “You will not replace us” and “Jews will not replace us.”

Hundreds of counterprotesters — religious leaders, Black Lives Matter activists and anti-fascist groups known as “antifa” — quickly surrounded the crowd, singing spirituals, chanting and carrying their own signs.

The morning started peacefully, with the white nationalists gathering in McIntire Park, outside downtown, and the counterdemonstrators — including Cornel R. West, the Harvard University professor and political activist — gathering at the First Baptist Church, a historically African-American church here. Professor West, who addressed the group at a sunrise prayer service, said he had come “bearing witness to love and justice in the face of white supremacy.”

At McIntire Park, the white nationalists waved Confederate flags and other banners. As a photographer took pictures, one of them, who gave his name only as Ted because he said he might want to run for political office some day, said he was from Missouri, and added, “I’m tired of seeing white people pushed around.”

But by 11 a.m., after both sides had made their way to Emancipation Park, the scene had exploded into taunting, shoving and outright brawling.

Barricades encircling the park and separating the two sides began to come down, and the police temporarily retreated. People were seen clubbing one another in the streets, and pepper spray filled the air. One of the white nationalists left the park bleeding, his head wrapped in gauze.

Declaring the gathering an unlawful assembly, the police had cleared the area before noon, and the Virginia National Guard arrived as officers began arresting some who remained. But fears lingered that the altercation would start again nearby, as demonstrators dispersed in smaller groups.

Within an hour, politicians, including Gov. Terry McAuliffe, a Democrat, and the House speaker, Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin, a Republican, had condemned the violence.

The first public response from the White House came from the first lady, Melania Trump, who wrote on Twitter: “Our country encourages freedom of speech, but let’s communicate w/o hate in our hearts. No good comes from violence.”

Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Justice Department agents would support local and state officials in an investigation of Saturday’s events.

“This kind of violence is totally contrary to American values and can never be tolerated,” Mr. Sessions said in a statement.

After the rally was dispersed, its organizer, Jason Kessler, who calls himself a “white advocate,” complained in an interview that his group had been “forced into a very chaotic situation.” He added, “The police were supposed to be there protecting us and they stood down.”

The street fights were the latest in a series of tense dramas unfolding across the United States over plans to remove statues and other historical markers of the Confederacy. The battles have been intensified by the election of Mr. Trump, who enjoys fervent support from white nationalists.

Adding to the turmoil, the Federal Aviation Administration said late Saturday that a Virginia State Police helicopter had crashed about seven miles southwest of Charlottesville. The cause of the crash and whether anyone was injured was not immediately known.

Here in Charlottesville, the protest, billed as a “Unite the Right” rally, was the culmination of a year and a half of debate in Charlottesville over the fate of the Lee statue. A movement to remove it began when an African-American high school student here started a petition. The City Council voted 3 to 2 in April to sell it, but a judge issued an injunction temporarily stopping the move.

The city had been bracing for a sea of alt-right demonstrators, and on Friday night, hundreds of them, carrying lit torches, marched on the picturesque grounds of the University of Virginia, founded in 1819 by Thomas Jefferson. The group included prominent white nationalist figures like Richard Spencer and David Duke, a former imperial wizard of the Ku Klux Klan.

“We’re going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump” to “take our country back,” Mr. Duke told reporters Saturday. Many of the white nationalist protesters carried campaign signs for Mr. Trump.

Mr. Duke strongly criticized Mr. Trump later in the day after the president condemned the violence.

University officials said one person was arrested and charged Friday night with assault and disorderly conduct, and several others were injured. Among those hurt was a university police officer injured while making the arrest, the school said in a statement.

Teresa A. Sullivan, the president of the university, strongly condemned the Friday demonstration in a statement, calling it “disturbing and unacceptable.”

Still, officials allowed the Saturday protest to go on — until the injuries began piling up.

The city of Charlottesville declared a state of emergency around 11 a.m., citing an “imminent threat of civil disturbance, unrest, potential injury to persons, and destruction of public and personal property.”

Governor McAuliffe followed with his own declaration an hour later.

“It is now clear that public safety cannot be safeguarded without additional powers, and that the mostly-out-of-state protesters have come to Virginia to endanger our citizens and property,” he said in a statement. “I am disgusted by the hatred, bigotry and violence these protesters have brought to our state over the past 24 hours.”

The Republican candidate for governor in Virginia, Ed Gillespie, issued his own statement denouncing the protests as “vile hate” that has “no place in our Commonwealth.”

Mr. Ryan agreed. “The views fueling the spectacle in Charlottesville are repugnant,” he said on Twitter. “Let it only serve to unite Americans against this kind of vile bigotry.”

Trump declares victory.  cheers  "More of my people showed up than Democrats," he said.  

"Don't spare their heads," the president told a small group of RW marchers.    scratch

"Remember," the Trumpster reminded everyone, "Virginia is an 'open carry' state.  Get to work."
 Twisted Evil

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
avatar
Original Quill

Posts : 23300
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down


Re: War in Virginia

Post by Original Quill on Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:01 pm

Obama tweets. We need a 'sane and civilized' president back again...

AFP wrote:Obama message goes viral after Charlottesville violence

Washington (AFP) - A tweet from Barack Obama drew more than two million "likes" by Monday as the former US president offered a message of tolerance following a deadly weekend clash at a white supremacist rally.

"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion," Obama said in the message, quoting the late South African leader Nelson Mandela.

Obama's tweet garnered 2.3 million "likes," the third most popular of all time, according to the Twitter-tracking site Favstar. The message was retweeted 980,000 times.

Obama's tweet struck a chord after the death of a 32-year-old woman hit by a car driven into a crowd by a suspected white supremacist on Saturday in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Fake President Trump drew fire for a tepid initial response to the violence, and he followed up Monday with a stronger condemnation of "those who spread violence in the name of bigotry."

Obama gave additional quotes from Mandela.

"People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love," a tweet read.

"For love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite."

The most-liked tweet of all time was from singer Ariana Grande earlier this year -- saying "from the bottom of my heart, i am so so sorry" -- after a deadly attack at her Manchester concert.

That tweet dethroned the popular photo tweet from the 2014 Oscars ceremony by actress Ellen DeGeneres.

Obama's tweet also prompted more than 37,000 responses, including both positive and negative comments.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
avatar
Original Quill

Posts : 23300
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:12 pm




Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Lord Foul on Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:49 pm

Because of course, as we all konw violence and intimidation is ONLY ever OK if its left wing violence to impose L/W ideology.

How about the "6 of one and half a dozen of the other idea"?

one is, at its worst, as ugly as the other....


Not taking sides for a moment here...BUT

Just what gives left ideology/politics etc any form of moral high ground, apart from some vague "gut feeling " that there is some form of righteousness to be had from it???

there is NO objective proof that folks living in L/W controlled states are any happier than those who are not (aside from holland(and they are all permanently stoned...so...))

( oh...and be careful, and compare like for like...DONT try straw manning by comparing L/W france against R/W south american dictatorships...etc.....I KNOW what a disingenious bunch you are)

_________________
If at any time in 2017 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up snowflake, cause 2018 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


[b].(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
avatar
Lord Foul
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR

Posts : 9340
Join date : 2015-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Original Quill on Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:23 pm

Lord Foul wrote:Because of course, as we all konw violence and intimidation is ONLY ever OK if its left wing violence to impose L/W ideology.

How about the "6 of one and half a dozen of the other idea"?

one is, at its worst, as ugly as the other....


Not taking sides for a moment here...BUT

Just what gives left ideology/politics etc any form of moral high ground, apart from some vague "gut feeling " that there is some form of righteousness to be had from it???

there is NO objective proof that folks living in L/W controlled states are any happier than those who are not (aside from holland(and they are all permanently stoned...so...))

( oh...and be careful, and compare like for like...DONT try straw manning by comparing L/W france against R/W south american dictatorships...etc.....I KNOW what a disingenious bunch you are)

Lies, vic.  You are repeating a lie.

One of the biggest lies ever invented is: They all do it.  Fact: Well no, they don't all do it.  This was a lie invented to create inter-subjective exoneration for the evil-doer(s).  Misery needs comfort too, after all.

Notice, you see this assertion only when the evil-doer has done something inexcusable.  It's an argument of a different color.  It says, not that what he did has merit, but that it is commonplace.  Well...two things: (1) if evil is prevalent, how does that justify what the evil-doer has done?  and (2) if evil is prevalent, why don't you change it?

These points are very simple, and can easily be realized and acted upon.  The reason why they aren't put into action is because the evil-doer still wants to do a little more evil.


Last edited by Original Quill on Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
avatar
Original Quill

Posts : 23300
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:27 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:Because of course, as we all konw violence and intimidation is ONLY ever OK if its left wing violence to impose L/W ideology.

How about the "6 of one and half a dozen of the other idea"?

one is, at its worst, as ugly as the other....


Not taking sides for a moment here...BUT

Just what gives left ideology/politics etc any form of moral high ground, apart from some vague "gut feeling " that there is some form of righteousness to be had from it???

there is NO objective proof that folks living in L/W controlled states are any happier than those who are not (aside from holland(and they are all permanently stoned...so...))

( oh...and be careful, and compare like for like...DONT try straw manning by comparing L/W france against R/W south american dictatorships...etc.....I KNOW what a disingenious bunch you are)

Lies, vic.  You are repeating a lie.

One of the biggest lie ever invented is: They all do it.  Fact: Well no, they don't all do it.  This was a lie invented to create inter-subjective exoneration for the evil-doer(s).  Misery needs comfort too, after all.

Notice, you see it when the evil-doer has done something inexcusable.  It's an argument of a different color.  It says, not that what he did has merit, but that it is commonplace.  Well...two things: (1) if evil is prevalent, how does that justify what the evil-doer has done?  and (2) if evil is prevalent, why don't you change it?

These points are very simple, and can easily be realized and acted upon.  The reason why they aren't put into action is because the evil-doer still wants to do a little more evil.


Mao
Stalin
Lenin
Pol Pot


These are just the biggest under the left, but there plenty more like North Korea, East Germany, Bulgaria, Hungary etc under Communism, where people died in their millions trying to change it in all the above examples. Whilst the west sat back and did nothing.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Lord Foul on Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:34 pm

the hammer and sickle has killed far more than the swastika ever has

six of one and half a dozen of the other......

_________________
If at any time in 2017 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up snowflake, cause 2018 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


[b].(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
avatar
Lord Foul
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR

Posts : 9340
Join date : 2015-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Lord Foul on Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:39 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:Because of course, as we all konw violence and intimidation is ONLY ever OK if its left wing violence to impose L/W ideology.

How about the "6 of one and half a dozen of the other idea"?

one is, at its worst, as ugly as the other....


Not taking sides for a moment here...BUT

Just what gives left ideology/politics etc any form of moral high ground, apart from some vague "gut feeling " that there is some form of righteousness to be had from it???

there is NO objective proof that folks living in L/W controlled states are any happier than those who are not (aside from holland(and they are all permanently stoned...so...))

( oh...and be careful, and compare like for like...DONT try straw manning by comparing L/W france against R/W south american dictatorships...etc.....I KNOW what a disingenious bunch you are)

Lies, vic.  You are repeating a lie.

One of the biggest lies ever invented is: They all do it.  Fact: Well no, they don't all do it.  This was a lie invented to create inter-subjective exoneration for the evil-doer(s).  Misery needs comfort too, after all.

Fact: actually they do, and both are wrong....what YOU are trying to do is justify the equally hoary lie that L/W violence is justifiable , whereas R/W violence isnt, when the reality is NIETHER is ......

Notice, you see this assertion only when the evil-doer has done something inexcusable.  It's an argument of a different color.  It says, not that what he did has merit, but that it is commonplace.  Well...two things: (1) if evil is prevalent, how does that justify what the evil-doer has done?  and (2) if evil is prevalent, why don't you change it?

again I ask...define "evil"

These points are very simple, and can easily be realized and acted upon.  The reason why they aren't put into action is because the evil-doer still wants to do a little more evil.


_________________
If at any time in 2017 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up snowflake, cause 2018 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


[b].(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
avatar
Lord Foul
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR

Posts : 9340
Join date : 2015-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Original Quill on Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:40 pm

Vic wrote:Fact: actually they do, and both are wrong....what YOU are trying to do is justify the equally hoary lie that L/W violence is justifiable , whereas R/W violence isnt, when the reality is NIETHER is ......

You are just perpetuating a lie, in order to take a position.  Positions are for lawyers.  You don't need a position if you have got truth.

The truth is that only the right needs to lie.  The right represents special interests, whereas the left represents the interests of all.  When you represent the interests of all, you have only to find out what is best for all.  But when you represent the special interests, you need to hide your purposes.

Not all people lie.  Only those who need to.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
avatar
Original Quill

Posts : 23300
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:49 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Vic wrote:Fact: actually they do, and both are wrong....what YOU are trying to do is justify the equally hoary lie that L/W violence is justifiable , whereas R/W violence isnt, when the reality is NIETHER is ......

You are just perpetuating a lie, in order to take a position.  Positions are for lawyers.  You don't need a position if you have got truth.

The truth is that only the right needs to lie.  The right represents special interests, whereas the left represents the interests of all.  When you represent the interests of all, you have only to find out what is best for all.  But when you represent the special interests, you need to hide your purposes.

Not all people lie.  Only those who need to.



Yet history shows and proves you are emphatically wrong.

Its one thing to have an belief in political ideologies, but another when its put into practice.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by gelico on Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:52 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Vic wrote:Fact: actually they do, and both are wrong....what YOU are trying to do is justify the equally hoary lie that L/W violence is justifiable , whereas R/W violence isnt, when the reality is NIETHER is ......


The truth is that only the right needs to lie.  The right represents special interests, whereas the left represents the interests of all.  When you represent the interests of all, you have only to find out what is best for all.  But when you represent the special interests, you need to hide your purposes.

Not all people lie.  Only those who need to.

in my experience the right tend to represent the majority and the left represents minority groups

gelico

Posts : 1311
Join date : 2017-07-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Original Quill on Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:59 pm

gelico wrote:
Original Quill wrote:


The truth is that only the right needs to lie.  The right represents special interests, whereas the left represents the interests of all.  When you represent the interests of all, you have only to find out what is best for all.  But when you represent the special interests, you need to hide your purposes.

Not all people lie.  Only those who need to.

in my experience the right tend to represent the majority and the left represents minority groups

The proof is in the pudding.  The right stands for capitalism and individual selfish interests, while the left monitors/aids the poor, hungry, infirm and homeless.  That's the way it has always been, and the way it will always be.

When the showers come and everything blooms, the right is found finagling for self-interest while the left is still going on with helping the poor, hungry, infirm and homeless.  

Only those whose interests oppose the general population have any motive to misrepresent themselves.  Conservatives are the flim-flam men of politics and business. Only the right has incentive to lie.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
avatar
Original Quill

Posts : 23300
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:12 am

gelico wrote:
Original Quill wrote:


The truth is that only the right needs to lie.  The right represents special interests, whereas the left represents the interests of all.  When you represent the interests of all, you have only to find out what is best for all.  But when you represent the special interests, you need to hide your purposes.

Not all people lie.  Only those who need to.

in my experience the right tend to represent the majority and the left represents minority groups
Rolling Eyes

Another load of irrational and ill-considered bulldust on gelico's part...

Populist wrong-headed thinking doesn't equate to a "majority" view --  although those extremist nongs are always telling themselves that they represent some imaginary yet fanciful "majority"..

By definition, it's the "centrist" positions that cover the majority,  (do you even understand the difference between political and economic concepts, principles of statistics and demographics, and the notion of a 'political spectrum' ???).

The far right are the fascist, authoritarian, anti-social, greed-fuelled racist fucktards;  whereas the far-left are the communist, authoritarian, meddling and sophist fucktards.

_________________
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Our life is frittered away by details. Simplify, simplify.
The mass of men lead lives of quite desperation.
Henry David Thoreau
avatar
WhoseYourWolfie

Posts : 5682
Join date : 2016-02-24
Age : 60
Location : Lake Macquarie, NSW, Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:30 am

Lord Foul wrote:Because of course, as we all konw violence and intimidation is ONLY ever OK if its left wing violence to impose L/W ideology.

How about the "6 of one and half a dozen of the other idea"?

one is, at its worst, as ugly as the other....


Not taking sides for a moment here...BUT

Just what gives left ideology/politics etc any form of moral high ground, apart from some vague "gut feeling " that there is some form of righteousness to be had from it???

there is NO objective proof that folks living in L/W controlled states are any happier than those who are not (aside from holland(and they are all permanently stoned...so...))

( oh...and be careful, and compare like for like...DONT try straw manning by comparing L/W france against R/W south american dictatorships...etc.....I KNOW what a disingenious bunch you are)

HOW is not being a Nazi Left wing? Churchill was a lefty was he?
your fucked in the head with your anything left of Hitler is left wing bullshit


Image result for british ww2 war cemetery
these men died in vain if we let cowards like you have your way today

_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
avatar
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 17825
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 35
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:51 am

Wow Veya, is that what you think Victor is saying, that left wing is nazism? Or that countless millions had died under barbaric left wing totalitarian states?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Angry Andy on Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:49 am

Had to chuckle at Vic's bizarre and ludicrous  statement  that  he wasn't  taking sides... but.

Tsking the far right side was ALL he was doing. Because however much Vic denies it or waffles, he IS fsr right, loves Trump and despises left wingers.

_________________
I have never met a caring sharing and compassionate Tory.
Tories and far right wingers. All liars
Visit Turkey. But beware, Sharia law is watching everyone.
avatar
Angry Andy
Poet Laureate & Traveling Bard of NewsFix

Posts : 4447
Join date : 2013-12-14
Age : 61
Location : Getting banned is a badge of honour in the fight against far rw extremists.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Lord Foul on Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:05 am

i'll just ignore HA for tghe unmitigated cretin and troll he is.....

Veya however ...you can be a right twat at times, do you lot in ozzyland have the same difficulty with english as our other cousins "over the pond"???

ask yourself this

WHY is the right on the up atm??? (and has been, albeit slowly, for the past 10 years or more)

Well its quite obvious....

a total failure by the L/W (i would have said the european L/W, but clearly its not only them) to get across its policies and ideas in a form palatable to the "masses"

there is also the legacy of the Blair years here, with a bunch of lying spinning toads...who "opened the flood gates of immigration " to "rub the noses of the right in it", whcich was a bad miscalculation because it rubbed EVERYONES nose in it.....

part of the problem is the almost religiously sanctimonious attitude of the "lefty" towards anyone who isnt left of stalin, and doesnt in toto, agree with every aspect of their brand of civilisation.

disagree with one...just one,  bit of lefty ideology and you are a R/W extremist.

vis HA's comment above...

see I dislike BOTH left and right equally, with a passion that increases the further left or right you go.

I find it MOST amusing that you lot collectively cant find a pidgeon hole to fit me into

the (now EX) Far right contingent dislike me with a passion and recon I'm a lefty shill
and you Leftys recon I'm a R/W type
Rolling Eyes

You are so dense you cant even see the hypocrisy you indulge in

some of the r/w are violent...so they are filth
some of the L/W are violent...but thats ok its for a "good" cause

vs

some of the L/W are violent....so they are filth
some of the R/W are violent ...but thats ok, its for a good cause


you lot thouroughly deserve one another,

You talk about how one "wing" is better and superior to the other, YET historically speaking there is NO evidence that one is in any way "better" than the other

the right would have us turn against our fellow countrymen on teh flimsiest of pretexts
the left would turn our young folks into pathetic snowflakes that need "soft rooms and "safe spaces" at uinversities ....that have no idea of gender or its role in life in general, vis that "gender neutral school" Rolling Eyes
etc etc etc....



oh ant This is what I mean

HA, and the rest of that little clique belong in the category "hard left"

and this is how they promulgate their vision of leftyism

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t21720-hard-left-trying-to-brand-labour-centrists-as-racist-sympathisers


As I said...If you dont agree "in TOTO" with them you are a (add whatever "SIXHIRB" insult you happen to think of)
they are as odious as those R/w ers that have been slung out..... Twisted Evil

_________________
If at any time in 2017 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up snowflake, cause 2018 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


[b].(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
avatar
Lord Foul
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR

Posts : 9340
Join date : 2015-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:26 am

Well, I guess we should never have gone to war with Hitler, because of course some of the Poles and Jews fought back, therefore we should have said 'they are both as bad as one another'. What a load of absolute bollocks.



Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:28 am


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:29 am


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:38 pm

sassy wrote:Well, I guess we should never have gone to war with Hitler, because of course some of the Poles and Jews fought back, therefore we should have said 'they are both as bad as one another'.   What a load of absolute bollocks.


Interesting you mention both the Jews and the Poles.

The British white paper, that limited Jewish refugees to the British Mandate, costing hundreds of thousands of lives. Of course the British were pandering to the Far Right Arab Palestinians, who were buddies to Hitler. Let alone the restrictions to the UK and the US. How many could have been saved? Plus just ask the Poles how they felt betrayed at the end of WW2, when Stalin was allowed to form his own Puppet Government in Poland. The fact you ignored tens of millions have died and suffered under Communist regimes, shows how you constantly bury your head in the sand.

Hence why in history both the Far Left and Far Right have been inherently evil.

Just look at Corbyn and Co still praise Venezuela, where they try to deny the atrocities and persecutions.


Last edited by Thorin on Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:46 pm; edited 2 times in total

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:42 pm

Lord Foul wrote:i'll just ignore HA for tghe unmitigated cretin and troll he is.....

Veya however ...you can be a right twat at times, do you lot in ozzyland have the same difficulty with english as our other cousins "over the pond"???

ask yourself this

WHY is the right on the up atm??? (and has been, albeit slowly, for the past 10 years or more)

Well its quite obvious....

a total failure by the L/W (i would have said the european L/W, but clearly its not only them) to get across its policies and ideas in a form palatable to the "masses"

there is also the legacy of the Blair years here, with a bunch of lying spinning toads...who "opened the flood gates of immigration " to "rub the noses of the right in it", whcich was a bad miscalculation because it rubbed EVERYONES nose in it.....

part of the problem is the almost religiously sanctimonious attitude of the "lefty" towards anyone who isnt left of stalin, and doesnt in toto, agree with every aspect of their brand of civilisation.

disagree with one...just one,  bit of lefty ideology and you are a R/W extremist.

vis HA's comment above...

see I dislike BOTH left and right equally, with a passion that increases the further left or right you go.

I find it MOST amusing that you lot collectively cant find a pidgeon hole to fit me into

the (now EX) Far right contingent dislike me with a passion and recon I'm a lefty shill
and you Leftys recon I'm a R/W type
Rolling Eyes

You are so dense you cant even see the hypocrisy you indulge in

some of the r/w are violent...so they are filth
some of the L/W are violent...but thats ok its for a "good" cause

vs

some of the L/W are violent....so they are filth
some of the R/W are violent ...but thats ok, its for a good cause


you lot thouroughly deserve one another,

You talk about how one "wing" is better and superior to the other, YET historically speaking there is NO evidence that one is in any way "better" than the other

the right would have us turn against our fellow countrymen on teh flimsiest of pretexts
the left would turn our young folks into pathetic snowflakes that need "soft rooms and "safe spaces" at uinversities ....that have no idea of gender or its role in life in general, vis that "gender neutral school" Rolling Eyes
etc etc etc....



oh ant This is what I mean

HA, and the rest of that little clique belong in the category "hard left"

and this is how they promulgate their vision of leftyism

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t21720-hard-left-trying-to-brand-labour-centrists-as-racist-sympathisers


As I said...If you dont agree "in TOTO" with them you are a  (add whatever "SIXHIRB" insult you happen to think of)
they are as odious as those R/w ers that have been slung out..... Twisted Evil


+1

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by nicko on Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:24 pm

Vic, that was an excellent reply, I wish I could have done it !
avatar
nicko

Posts : 9434
Join date : 2013-12-07
Age : 77
Location : rainbow bridge

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Original Quill on Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:36 pm

vic wrote:see I dislike BOTH left and right equally, with a passion that increases the further left or right you go.

Shocked What a load of shit that is. Laughing

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
avatar
Original Quill

Posts : 23300
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by nicko on Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:31 pm

On a par with what you sometimes post Laughing
avatar
nicko

Posts : 9434
Join date : 2013-12-07
Age : 77
Location : rainbow bridge

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:36 pm

Original Quill wrote:
gelico wrote:

in my experience the right tend to represent the majority and the left represents minority groups

The proof is in the pudding.  The right stands for capitalism and individual selfish interests, while the left monitors/aids the poor, hungry, infirm and homeless.  That's the way it has always been, and the way it will always be.

When the showers come and everything blooms, the right is found finagling for self-interest while the left is still going on with helping the poor, hungry, infirm and homeless.  

Only those whose interests oppose the general population have any motive to misrepresent themselves.  Conservatives are the flim-flam men of politics and business.  Only the right has incentive to lie.

You could also say that the right encourages personal responsibility and aren't so prone to relying on the State. The left may well have an agenda - if they're reliant on the State, for example.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 30443
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Lord Foul on Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:
vic wrote:see I dislike BOTH left and right equally, with a passion that increases the further left or right you go.

Shocked   What a load of shit that is.   Laughing
#
then you are fixed in the moment quill, and clearly know sod all about my (for instance fiscal ideas) pay attention that man and stop slacking

_________________
If at any time in 2017 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up snowflake, cause 2018 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


[b].(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
avatar
Lord Foul
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR

Posts : 9340
Join date : 2015-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Original Quill on Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:42 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

The proof is in the pudding.  The right stands for capitalism and individual selfish interests, while the left monitors/aids the poor, hungry, infirm and homeless.  That's the way it has always been, and the way it will always be.

When the showers come and everything blooms, the right is found finagling for self-interest while the left is still going on with helping the poor, hungry, infirm and homeless.  

Only those whose interests oppose the general population have any motive to misrepresent themselves.  Conservatives are the flim-flam men of politics and business.  Only the right has incentive to lie.

You could also say that the right encourages personal responsibility and aren't so prone to relying on the State. The left may well have an agenda - if they're reliant on the State, for example.

You could have said that back in the pre-Nixon days...say, Eisenhower, with daddy Bush being the last vestige of the gray flannel Republicans.

But not since the post-Watergate gang...and certainly not since the lies told to start the Iraq war. That showed the squirreliness of the right...lying is a good indication of a lack of confidence. When you need to create an alternate reality it means you haven't got a grasp of things. Your out of control.

Republicans, and the right in general, need to fabricate an alternate reality. Their program relies integrally upon deceiving the masses. They stand opposed to the masses.

I mean, figure it out: life is a zero-sum game. What one person gets in abundance is taken from the share of the other person. This divides people into two kinds, plunderers (or larceners) and the plundered. It's natural for people to gather together in like kind...in this case the plunderers cluster together to take from their victims. They are capitalists, Tories or Republicans, although full conservatism includes a lot of duped people as well. The residual are Labour or Democrats, who perceive and presume to represent everyone, especially those with special needs.

What we have today is modern, market economics, derived from the guilds, where original value was the labor put into a product. The transition from labor value to something more must be kept a secret from the victims. Hence, why the right lies.

Of course, in between are lots of tricks and schemes, plus ways to deceive (even up to creating wars), but the main idea is that one group represents the plunderers and one represents the plundered.

You would really need to read my book, Why Elephants Lie.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
avatar
Original Quill

Posts : 23300
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Original Quill on Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:48 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Shocked   What a load of shit that is.   Laughing
#
then you are fixed in the moment quill, and clearly know sod all about my (for instance fiscal ideas) pay attention that man and stop slacking

All I"m doing is calling you out, vic. You want to assume the mantel of god, or father superior, the divine wisdom-giver...but fact is you have your interests just like everyone else. And you reflect them everyday in your opinions.

I would say you are a rational conservative. You understand rational arguments, yet you've made your choices. And your choice is clearly with the plunderers. But you're not sloppy about it, like Trump. Not greedy. Like I said...rational.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
avatar
Original Quill

Posts : 23300
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Angry Andy on Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:20 pm

Further to this, the Alt right Nazis and KKK are applauding and cheering the murder of Heather Heyer.
Please tell me there is no one here or on the other , racist site that a few inhabit, that condone her murder at the hands of a Nazi terrorist.

http://dailym.ai/2fKN5DR

_________________
I have never met a caring sharing and compassionate Tory.
Tories and far right wingers. All liars
Visit Turkey. But beware, Sharia law is watching everyone.
avatar
Angry Andy
Poet Laureate & Traveling Bard of NewsFix

Posts : 4447
Join date : 2013-12-14
Age : 61
Location : Getting banned is a badge of honour in the fight against far rw extremists.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Lord Foul on Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:22 pm

and what does that nake YOU quill?? an irrational liberalist?

one who one moment is saying "we" should all "save the world" (in financial terms at least)

then declaring that "you" want an isolationst california?????



pray tell me what is conservative about a "citizens wage" (to be paid to ALL uk citizens 18 or over. (16) if they are working )

about decriminalising "some" drugs
decriminalising and taking under state control prostitution
instituting citizen ship points, whereby good and positive citizenship (via service, be it holding first aid and advanced first aid certs, learning the deaf sign language, consistant volunteer work in your community, will earn you increased citizens wage/tax benefits
and all the rest I have previously mentioned (more than once)

WHICH would be paid for largely by the imposition of PROPER taxation on those able to afford it (like multinationals...) and who at present are defrauding the country of billions.


what is "conservative" about a one time amnesty for ALL those illegal immigrants, with a guarantee of uk citizenship for all?


of course other policies are less "leftist"

a moratorium on immigration from the date of implementing the amnesty, with the exception of sponsored immigrants, and those with special and needed skills.

oh sod it, I'm not re-writing the whole bloody thing for your ammusement.There was about 3 pages of it and that was only a sketch.

_________________
If at any time in 2017 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up snowflake, cause 2018 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


[b].(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
avatar
Lord Foul
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR

Posts : 9340
Join date : 2015-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Lord Foul on Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:29 pm

Angry Andy wrote:Further to this, the Alt right Nazis and KKK are applauding and cheering the murder of Heather Heyer.
Please tell me there is no one here or on the other , racist site that a few inhabit, that condone her murder at the hands of a Nazi terrorist.

http://dailym.ai/2fKN5DR

that is appalling....not having seen this video I was not prepared to beleive entirely the reported events, since both sides are well enough known to be "economical with truth" at times, so was waiting for something like this.

there can however be NO doubt this was a deliberate ramming, with the intent to cause death and injury, this was no mere "loss of control" panic or whatever. there is in the video alone a good 5-6 seconds where he could have braked. rammed it down the gears, etc...even curbed it to slow it...



FRY the bastard


_________________
If at any time in 2017 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up snowflake, cause 2018 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


[b].(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
avatar
Lord Foul
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR

Posts : 9340
Join date : 2015-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Lord Foul on Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:31 pm

oh and while you atre at it fry that bloody grand panjandrum or whatever he calls himself, for "incitement"

_________________
If at any time in 2017 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up snowflake, cause 2018 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


[b].(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
avatar
Lord Foul
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR

Posts : 9340
Join date : 2015-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Lord Foul on Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:35 pm

See. if it had been two evenly matched fellows from opposing sides, in "fair and honourable combat" as it were and one killed the other, I'd tend to be less harsh....(as a basis look at old celtic law)

_________________
If at any time in 2017 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up snowflake, cause 2018 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


[b].(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
avatar
Lord Foul
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR

Posts : 9340
Join date : 2015-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Angry Andy on Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:49 pm

America is heading for a civil war. Left wing Democrats v Alt Right , KKK, Neo Nazis and the Republicans.
Hope it doesn't  spread to this side of tbe pond. 
Mind you, most far right British neanderthals are too thick to read and write.

_________________
I have never met a caring sharing and compassionate Tory.
Tories and far right wingers. All liars
Visit Turkey. But beware, Sharia law is watching everyone.
avatar
Angry Andy
Poet Laureate & Traveling Bard of NewsFix

Posts : 4447
Join date : 2013-12-14
Age : 61
Location : Getting banned is a badge of honour in the fight against far rw extremists.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Original Quill on Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:51 pm

Vic wrote:and what does that nake YOU quill?? an irrational liberalist?

A realist who dislikes mendacity.  I'm a political theorist, and I believe that lies do not make good bricks and mortar for politics.  They are too lacking in tensile strength and provide no structural buttress.  A political edifice built on lies will inevitably collapse.

Conservatives and their mendacity have lasted this long because, like the endless frontier, there has been so much abundance that we have not felt the pinch.  But what do you think is causing this xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment?  Why the return of Nazism and racial superiority, for example, in Charlottesville?  It's the very pinch that we have escaped white the world is preoccupied with global expansionism.

Trump and the collapse of conservatism is the closing of the endless frontier.  Look at the mendacity collapsing.  McConnell and Ryan, blustering because they want to uphold their piece of the system, when even they detest the system.  Ask any of them: 'Would you like to see a return of the ovens?'  They will cringe.  Yet, they are seeing it before their very eyes, and they do nothing.  It's the lie that they sit on, exposing itself finally.  They want the presidential office, but do they want the racism, bigotry and Nazism that comes with it?

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
avatar
Original Quill

Posts : 23300
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Original Quill on Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:07 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
Angry Andy wrote:Further to this, the Alt right Nazis and KKK are applauding and cheering the murder of Heather Heyer.
Please tell me there is no one here or on the other , racist site that a few inhabit, that condone her murder at the hands of a Nazi terrorist.

http://dailym.ai/2fKN5DR

that is appalling....not having seen this video I was not prepared to beleive entirely the reported events, since both sides are well enough known to be "economical with truth" at times, so was waiting for something like this.

there can however be NO doubt this was a deliberate ramming, with the intent to cause death and injury, this was no mere "loss of control" panic or whatever. there is in the video alone a good 5-6 seconds where he could have braked. rammed it down the gears, etc...even curbed it to slow it...

FRY the bastard

Actually, I'll give 8 to 5 odds Field Will get off.  Virginia is a southern state (FGS, Richmond was the capital of the Confederacy).  A southern jury will view that clip and conclude that he lost control of his vehicle.  It was an accident. With Trump in charge, the Feds will sit on their hands and mumble oh my, oh my, oh my....

Remember George Zimmerman.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
avatar
Original Quill

Posts : 23300
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Lord Foul on Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:19 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Vic wrote:and what does that nake YOU quill?? an irrational liberalist?

A realist who dislikes mendacity.  I'm a political theorist, and I believe that lies do not make good bricks and mortar for politics.  They are too lacking in tensile strength and provide no structural buttress.  A political edifice built on lies will inevitably collapse.

Conservatives and their mendacity have lasted this long because, like the endless frontier, there has been so much abundance that we have not felt the pinch.  But what do you think is causing this xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment?  Why the return of Nazism and racial superiority, for example, in Charlottesville?  It's the very pinch that we have escaped white the world is preoccupied with global expansionism.

Trump and the collapse of conservatism is the closing of the endless frontier.  Look at the mendacity collapsing.  McConnell and Ryan, blustering because they want to uphold their piece of the system, when even they detest the system.  Ask any of them: 'Would you like to see a return of the ovens?'  They will cringe.  Yet, they are seeing it before their very eyes, and they do nothing.  It's the lie that they sit on, exposing itself finally.  They want the presidential office, but do they want the racism, bigotry and Nazism that comes with it?


you cant be both.

and I dont think any political theorist has been right in his/her musings BEFORE the event and is only capable of pontificating AFTER the event , when its all obvious anyway.

moreover political theorists are two a penny, go in the snug of any pub at chucking out time and the place will be stuffed to the rafters with em, all setting the world to rights , and none of them with any clue about it anyhow.

_________________
If at any time in 2017 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up snowflake, cause 2018 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


[b].(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
avatar
Lord Foul
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR

Posts : 9340
Join date : 2015-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:16 am

sassy wrote:


Bullshit!!!



_________________
“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.'  — George Orwell
avatar
Tommy Monk

Posts : 20248
Join date : 2014-02-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Original Quill on Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:55 am

Lord Foul wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

A realist who dislikes mendacity.  I'm a political theorist, and I believe that lies do not make good bricks and mortar for politics.  They are too lacking in tensile strength and provide no structural buttress.  A political edifice built on lies will inevitably collapse.

Conservatives and their mendacity have lasted this long because, like the endless frontier, there has been so much abundance that we have not felt the pinch.  But what do you think is causing this xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment?  Why the return of Nazism and racial superiority, for example, in Charlottesville?  It's the very pinch that we have escaped white the world is preoccupied with global expansionism.

Trump and the collapse of conservatism is the closing of the endless frontier.  Look at the mendacity collapsing.  McConnell and Ryan, blustering because they want to uphold their piece of the system, when even they detest the system.  Ask any of them: 'Would you like to see a return of the ovens?'  They will cringe.  Yet, they are seeing it before their very eyes, and they do nothing.  It's the lie that they sit on, exposing itself finally.  They want the presidential office, but do they want the racism, bigotry and Nazism that comes with it?


you cant be both.

and I dont think any political theorist has been right in his/her musings BEFORE the event and is only capable of pontificating AFTER the event , when its all obvious anyway.

moreover political theorists are two a penny, go in the snug of any pub at chucking out time and the place will be stuffed to the rafters with em, all setting the world to rights , and none of them with any clue about it anyhow.

Stop acting like a spoiled child. Political theorists are not right or wrong, that's for political scientists. Political science is a scientific enterprise, and it studies what is, not what would or should be. Political theory is a normative enterprise. A political theorist might provide the scientists with insights and hypotheses, but s/he is really talking prospectively.

As to your second point, I'm well aware that everyone thinks they are political prognosticators and that this inflates the numbers. But most of those would-be heroes are chumps, and are only as good as their last pint. I'm not worried about competition because it's not a living. And I'm not running for anything. I'm just telling it like it is.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
avatar
Original Quill

Posts : 23300
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:24 am

Thorin wrote:Wow Veya, is that what you think Victor is saying, that left wing is nazism? Or that countless millions had died under barbaric left wing totalitarian states?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes

so you are also a useless geranium?

what i'm saying is how is that in any way relevant to stopping Nazis today?
it has zero relevance at all it is literally making an excuse for people Today being Nazis because some guys in Russia 50 years ago

Go fuck your pea brained justification for todays neo Nazis
You spit on the grave of every solider that fought to stop the rise of Nazism (white supremacy) in the past if you are going to allow it to flourish today

John McCain wrote:There's no moral equivalency between racists & Americans standing up to defy hate& bigotry. The President of the United States should say so

_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
avatar
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 17825
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 35
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:27 am






_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
avatar
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 17825
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 35
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:27 am


_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
avatar
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 17825
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 35
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:40 am

Lord Foul wrote:i'll just ignore HA for tghe unmitigated cretin and troll he is.....

Veya however ...you can be a right twat at times, do you lot in ozzyland have the same difficulty with english as our other cousins "over the pond"???

ask yourself this

WHY is the right on the up atm??? (and has been, albeit slowly, for the past 10 years or more)

Well its quite obvious....

a total failure by the L/W (i would have said the european L/W, but clearly its not only them) to get across its policies and ideas in a form palatable to the "masses"

there is also the legacy of the Blair years here, with a bunch of lying spinning toads...who "opened the flood gates of immigration " to "rub the noses of the right in it", whcich was a bad miscalculation because it rubbed EVERYONES nose in it.....

part of the problem is the almost religiously sanctimonious attitude of the "lefty" towards anyone who isnt left of stalin, and doesnt in toto, agree with every aspect of their brand of civilisation.

disagree with one...just one,  bit of lefty ideology and you are a R/W extremist.

vis HA's comment above...

see I dislike BOTH left and right equally, with a passion that increases the further left or right you go.

I find it MOST amusing that you lot collectively cant find a pidgeon hole to fit me into

the (now EX) Far right contingent dislike me with a passion and recon I'm a lefty shill
and you Leftys recon I'm a R/W type
Rolling Eyes

You are so dense you cant even see the hypocrisy you indulge in

some of the r/w are violent...so they are filth
some of the L/W are violent...but thats ok its for a "good" cause

vs

some of the L/W are violent....so they are filth
some of the R/W are violent ...but thats ok, its for a good cause


you lot thouroughly deserve one another,

You talk about how one "wing" is better and superior to the other, YET historically speaking there is NO evidence that one is in any way "better" than the other

the right would have us turn against our fellow countrymen on teh flimsiest of pretexts
the left would turn our young folks into pathetic snowflakes that need "soft rooms and "safe spaces" at uinversities ....that have no idea of gender or its role in life in general, vis that "gender neutral school" Rolling Eyes
etc etc etc....



oh ant This is what I mean

HA, and the rest of that little clique belong in the category "hard left"

and this is how they promulgate their vision of leftyism

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t21720-hard-left-trying-to-brand-labour-centrists-as-racist-sympathisers


As I said...If you dont agree "in TOTO" with them you are a  (add whatever "SIXHIRB" insult you happen to think of)
they are as odious as those R/w ers that have been slung out..... Twisted Evil

Thankfully even Many RW US Politician think you justification for Nazis is BULLSHIT
John McCain Sums up why your full of shit perfectly
There's no moral equivalency between racists & Americans standing up to defy hate& bigotry.
So there is your whole hypocrisy reason down the toilet where it belongs cause to anyone that is not a pea brained racist trying to justify their white supremacy views it is OBVIOUSLY bullshit!!!!

Your saying these safe room snowflakes are wrong to confront Nazis??? they got more balls than you that would pathetically watch the rise on a new Nazi party and do nothing.

And WHO GIVE A SHOTO ABOUT EUROPE!!!!
this is happen in the USA it Is actually important
it affects the world NOT like whatever happens in your 2 bit yesteryear shitholes that are going down BECAUSE everyone else is going up

much like the Alt right of the USA your problem is equality feels like your disadvantaged because you're used to everyone else suffering oppression and persecution at your hands.

_________________
My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?
avatar
veya_victaous
The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo

Posts : 17825
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 35
Location : Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:00 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Thorin wrote:Wow Veya, is that what you think Victor is saying, that left wing is nazism? Or that countless millions had died under barbaric left wing totalitarian states?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes

so you are also a useless geranium?

what i'm saying is how is that in any way relevant to stopping Nazis today?
it has zero relevance at all it is literally making an excuse for people Today being Nazis  because some guys in Russia 50 years ago  

Go fuck your pea brained justification for todays neo Nazis
You spit on the grave of every solider that fought to stop the rise of Nazism (white supremacy) in the past if you are going to allow it to flourish today

John McCain wrote:There's no moral equivalency between racists & Americans standing up to defy hate& bigotry. The President of the United States should say so

Because the Far left are as much as threat as Nazism
All you can do is offer up pathetic insults
Then you invoke pathetic accusations, based off no subtance
I am not insulting anyone who has fallen, as I am pointing how in history the Far left and Far right have committed mass killings.
You just want to put your hands over your ears and go "la la la, Im not listening"
Now I already stand against Nazi's and have condemned them, just as I do with communists
You though want throw in poor misdirection, offer drivel and unfounded accusations, avoiding the issue.
It was not just the Nazi's who turned up looking for a fight but also the Far left in Antifa. Who have been behind the riots at Berkeley and other disturbances.
You then go zero relevance, ignoring the mass persecution and abuse of Human rights in Cuba and Venezuela

So wash your mouth out with soap potty mouth, because you clearly know little of the world and are talking shit. The fact you cannot see I and Victor are also against Nazi's shows more than anything your ignorance here.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:05 am


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:09 am

Both the Nazi's and the Far left group Antifa are to blame for the violence and both should be condemned. Not sure how people think its okay if the Far left engage in violence and even worse invoke WW2 in comparison. As both the Nazi's and Communists murdered millions.

Most of the counter protesters were not the Far left and were peaceful, but Antifa, like the Nazi's turned up tooled up for violence.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:18 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:i'll just ignore HA for tghe unmitigated cretin and troll he is.....

Veya however ...you can be a right twat at times, do you lot in ozzyland have the same difficulty with english as our other cousins "over the pond"???

ask yourself this

WHY is the right on the up atm??? (and has been, albeit slowly, for the past 10 years or more)

Well its quite obvious....

a total failure by the L/W (i would have said the european L/W, but clearly its not only them) to get across its policies and ideas in a form palatable to the "masses"

there is also the legacy of the Blair years here, with a bunch of lying spinning toads...who "opened the flood gates of immigration " to "rub the noses of the right in it", whcich was a bad miscalculation because it rubbed EVERYONES nose in it.....

part of the problem is the almost religiously sanctimonious attitude of the "lefty" towards anyone who isnt left of stalin, and doesnt in toto, agree with every aspect of their brand of civilisation.

disagree with one...just one,  bit of lefty ideology and you are a R/W extremist.

vis HA's comment above...

see I dislike BOTH left and right equally, with a passion that increases the further left or right you go.

I find it MOST amusing that you lot collectively cant find a pidgeon hole to fit me into

the (now EX) Far right contingent dislike me with a passion and recon I'm a lefty shill
and you Leftys recon I'm a R/W type
Rolling Eyes

You are so dense you cant even see the hypocrisy you indulge in

some of the r/w are violent...so they are filth
some of the L/W are violent...but thats ok its for a "good" cause

vs

some of the L/W are violent....so they are filth
some of the R/W are violent ...but thats ok, its for a good cause


you lot thouroughly deserve one another,

You talk about how one "wing" is better and superior to the other, YET historically speaking there is NO evidence that one is in any way "better" than the other

the right would have us turn against our fellow countrymen on teh flimsiest of pretexts
the left would turn our young folks into pathetic snowflakes that need "soft rooms and "safe spaces" at uinversities ....that have no idea of gender or its role in life in general, vis that "gender neutral school" Rolling Eyes
etc etc etc....



oh ant This is what I mean

HA, and the rest of that little clique belong in the category "hard left"

and this is how they promulgate their vision of leftyism

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t21720-hard-left-trying-to-brand-labour-centrists-as-racist-sympathisers


As I said...If you dont agree "in TOTO" with them you are a  (add whatever "SIXHIRB" insult you happen to think of)
they are as odious as those R/w ers that have been slung out..... Twisted Evil

Thankfully even Many RW US Politician think you justification for Nazis is BULLSHIT
John McCain Sums up why your full of shit perfectly
There's no moral equivalency between racists & Americans standing up to defy hate& bigotry.
So there is your whole hypocrisy reason down the toilet where it belongs cause to anyone that is not a pea brained racist trying to justify their white supremacy views it is OBVIOUSLY bullshit!!!!

Your saying these safe room snowflakes are wrong to confront Nazis??? they got more balls than you that would pathetically watch the rise on a new Nazi party and do nothing.

And WHO GIVE A SHOTO  ABOUT EUROPE!!!!
this is happen in the USA it Is actually important
it affects the world NOT like whatever happens in your 2 bit yesteryear shitholes that are going down BECAUSE everyone else is going up

much like the Alt right of the USA your problem is equality feels like your disadvantaged because you're used to everyone else suffering oppression and persecution at your hands.


Veya, I was born at the end of the last war, consequently I saw all the bomb damage and the war was something we talked about a lot. I could never understand how the Nazis managed to get people to go along with them. I understand now. People will tell themselves that those fighting Nazis are as bad, just as they said in Germany. People are so easily manipulated and they will swear blind they are intelligent and can see things for what they are and the opposition must as bad. I honestly wonder why some people think this country fought Fascism, because of course that made the whole country anti-fascists didn't it? And in their stupidity they believe that anti fascism, ie fighting against racism, fighting against people being beaten and abused because of their colour, race or creed is somehow as bad as those dishing out the abuse. On that level, children who are molested and speak out are as bad as their abusers, women who try to stop FGM are as bad as the people who do it, the police are as bad as the people who commit crime etc etc etc. They take logic and stand it on it's head and allow evil to take over the world. They are aiders and abettors and they are the ones allowing these present day nazis to flourish, which makes THEM the ones complicit and as bad.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:28 am

sassy wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

Thankfully even Many RW US Politician think you justification for Nazis is BULLSHIT
John McCain Sums up why your full of shit perfectly

So there is your whole hypocrisy reason down the toilet where it belongs cause to anyone that is not a pea brained racist trying to justify their white supremacy views it is OBVIOUSLY bullshit!!!!

Your saying these safe room snowflakes are wrong to confront Nazis??? they got more balls than you that would pathetically watch the rise on a new Nazi party and do nothing.

And WHO GIVE A SHOTO  ABOUT EUROPE!!!!
this is happen in the USA it Is actually important
it affects the world NOT like whatever happens in your 2 bit yesteryear shitholes that are going down BECAUSE everyone else is going up

much like the Alt right of the USA your problem is equality feels like your disadvantaged because you're used to everyone else suffering oppression and persecution at your hands.


Veya, I was born at the end of the last war, consequently I saw all the bomb damage and the war was something we talked about a lot.   I could never understand how the Nazis managed to get people to go along with them.   I understand now.   People will tell themselves that those fighting Nazis are as bad, just as they said in Germany.   People are so easily manipulated and they will swear blind they are intelligent and can see things for what they are and the opposition must as bad.   I honestly wonder why some people think this country fought Fascism, because of course that made the whole country anti-fascists didn't it?   And in their stupidity they believe that anti fascism, ie fighting against racism, fighting against people being beaten and abused because of their colour, race or creed is somehow as bad as those dishing out the abuse.   On that level, children who are molested and speak out are as bad as their abusers, women who try to stop FGM are as bad as the people who do it, the police are as bad as the people who commit crime etc etc etc.    They take logic and stand it on it's head and allow evil to take over the world.   They are aiders and abettors and they are the ones allowing these present day nazis to flourish, which makes THEM the ones complicit and as bad.

Again you equate something that is not comparable. Most people who stood against the Nazi's were non-violent, but Antifa most certainly are and are comparable to the Russian Communists. In fact most people were appalled we allied ourselves with the Communists to defeat the Nazis. As the communist committed many atrocities also, not only to the Nazi's but their own people. Not only were 2 million German women raped in the last 6 months or the war, but also many Russian women when freed, who had been enslaved in Nazi Germany. At the end of the war, we entered into a cold war with the Communists. Hence they were a significant threat. As seen throughout and even after WW2 many people living under Communist regimes, suffered, murder, torture, persecution and are still suffering today in Cuba and Venezuela.

We are not at war today and you tackle hate not with hate but with reason and unity with people. All you are arguing is to justify violence and hate. History will show you that has never worked and all you are doing is looking to further divide the US. The point is to stand against Nazism and any far left or right extremism. So you forget we also fought communism, and you forget that the Soviet Union went into a pact with the Nazi's to invade Poland. It was only because Hitler invade the Soviet Union, that then it became necessary to become allies. So this view to think its okay to back violent far left extremists committing violence is no better than supporting Nazi's themselves. 

Two peas in the same pod

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:32 am

Thorin wrote:
sassy wrote:


Veya, I was born at the end of the last war, consequently I saw all the bomb damage and the war was something we talked about a lot.   I could never understand how the Nazis managed to get people to go along with them.   I understand now.   People will tell themselves that those fighting Nazis are as bad, just as they said in Germany.   People are so easily manipulated and they will swear blind they are intelligent and can see things for what they are and the opposition must as bad.   I honestly wonder why some people think this country fought Fascism, because of course that made the whole country anti-fascists didn't it?   And in their stupidity they believe that anti fascism, ie fighting against racism, fighting against people being beaten and abused because of their colour, race or creed is somehow as bad as those dishing out the abuse.   On that level, children who are molested and speak out are as bad as their abusers, women who try to stop FGM are as bad as the people who do it, the police are as bad as the people who commit crime etc etc etc.    They take logic and stand it on it's head and allow evil to take over the world.   They are aiders and abettors and they are the ones allowing these present day nazis to flourish, which makes THEM the ones complicit and as bad.

Again you equate something that is not comparable. Most people who stood against the Nazi's were non-violent, but Antifa most certainly are and are comparable to the Russian Communists. In fact most people were appalled we allied ourselves with the Communists to defeat the Nazis. As the communist committed many atrocities also, not only to the Nazi's but their own people. Not only were 2 million German women raped in the last 6 months or the war, but also many Russian women when freed, who had been enslaved in Nazi Germany. At the end of the war, we entered into a cold war with the Communists. Hence they were a significant threat. As seen throughout and even after WW2 many people living under Communist regimes, suffered, murder, torture, persecution and are still suffering today in Cuba and Venezuela.

We are not at war today and you tackle hate not with hate but with reason and unity with people. All you are arguing is to justify violence and hate. History will show you that has never worked and all you are doing is looking to further divide the US. The point is to stand against Nazism and any far left or right extremism. So you forget we also fought communism, and you forget that the Soviet Union went into a pact with the Nazi's to invade Poland. It was only because Hitler invade the Soviet Union, that then it became necessary to become allies. So this view to think its okay to back violent far left extremists committing violence is no better than supporting Nazi's themselves. 

Two peas in the same pod

So I guess in your eyes WWII was a pointless exercise and we should have reasoned with Hitler.   You are such a mindless fool.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:34 am

sassy wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Again you equate something that is not comparable. Most people who stood against the Nazi's were non-violent, but Antifa most certainly are and are comparable to the Russian Communists. In fact most people were appalled we allied ourselves with the Communists to defeat the Nazis. As the communist committed many atrocities also, not only to the Nazi's but their own people. Not only were 2 million German women raped in the last 6 months or the war, but also many Russian women when freed, who had been enslaved in Nazi Germany. At the end of the war, we entered into a cold war with the Communists. Hence they were a significant threat. As seen throughout and even after WW2 many people living under Communist regimes, suffered, murder, torture, persecution and are still suffering today in Cuba and Venezuela.

We are not at war today and you tackle hate not with hate but with reason and unity with people. All you are arguing is to justify violence and hate. History will show you that has never worked and all you are doing is looking to further divide the US. The point is to stand against Nazism and any far left or right extremism. So you forget we also fought communism, and you forget that the Soviet Union went into a pact with the Nazi's to invade Poland. It was only because Hitler invade the Soviet Union, that then it became necessary to become allies. So this view to think its okay to back violent far left extremists committing violence is no better than supporting Nazi's themselves. 

Two peas in the same pod

So I guess in your eyes WWII was a pointless exercise and we should have reasoned with Hitlet.   You are such a mindless fool.


Never made such a claim
We went to war based off the self determination of the Polish people, who were invaded by the Nazis and the Communists.

How is that comparable to protests?

It never is, but you are making out that there is a war.

There is no war, there was a bunch on mindless Nazi's protesting, which had many people rightly stand peacefully up to them. Sadly you back the Antia Far left extremists. Who along with the Nazis, are trying to instigate a civil war in the US.

I mean are you suggesting its okay to use violence against people based on their beliefs?

Hence why you are clueless.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: War in Virginia

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum