Trump the girly man

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Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:23 pm

"Trump Is Woody Allen Without the Humor" - Peggy Noonan

think about that line for a moment.

It is the title of this Wall Street Journal column this morning, which has as its subtitle

“Half his tweets show utter weakness. They are plaintive, shrill little cries, usually just after dawn.”

And with those words, Noonan has barely gotten started.  By the way, that subtitle is extracted word for word from Noonan’s writing, picked out for that purpose I guess by the editors.

Consider is you will the first paragraph of the column:

Peggy Noonan wrote:The president’s primary problem as a leader is not that he is impetuous, brash or naive. It’s not that he is inexperienced, crude, an outsider. It is that he is weak and sniveling. It is that he undermines himself almost daily by ignoring traditional norms and forms of American masculinity.

Now, I will say right up front that even though the column is written by a woman, some are going to find Noonan’s characterizations of Trump sexist.  I would not disagree.

But that is part of the point —  Trump is actually very insecure, including probably about his own masculinity, which might be why he was so open — and gross — about his sexual behavior in earlier days, including his phone calls to the Howard Stern show.  Clearly we saw that in his visceral reaction when Marco Rubio in a Republican debate called attention to Trump’s small hands.

The link I have provided will enable you to read the article, which is otherwise behind a pay/subscription wall at the paper in which it appears.

Allow me to share a few additional snips:

Peggy Noonan wrote:Actually his wife, Melania, is tougher than he is with her stoicism and grace, her self-discipline and desire to show the world respect by presenting herself with dignity.
Noonan offers an observation made by someone else in light of Trump’s mistreatment of Jeff Sessions:

In Politico, John J. Pitney Jr. of Claremont McKenna College writes: “Loyalty is about strength. It is about sticking with a person, a cause, an idea or a country even when it is costly, difficult or unpopular.” A strong man does that. A weak one would unleash his resentments and derive sadistic pleasure from their unleashing.
Noonan also offers the following words after remarking about Trump’s performance at the Boyscout Jamboree:

His inability—not his refusal, but his inability—to embrace the public and rhetorical role of the presidency consistently and constructively is weak.

“It’s so easy to act presidential but that’s not gonna get it done,” Mr. Trump said the other night at a rally in Youngstown, Ohio. That is the opposite of the truth. The truth, six months in, is that he is not presidential and is not getting it done. His mad, blubbery petulance isn’t working for him but against him. If he were presidential he’d be getting it done—building momentum, gaining support. He’d be over 50%, not under 40%. He’d have health care, and more.
Noonan goes on to set up discussing the bloviations of Scaramucci with these words:

Peggy Noonan wrote:We close with the observation that it’s all nonstop drama and queen-for-a-day inside this hothouse of a White House. Staffers speak in their common yet somehow colorful language of their wants, their complaints.We close with the observation that it’s all nonstop drama and queen-for-a-day inside this hothouse of a White House. Staffers speak in their common yet somehow colorful language of their wants, their complaints.

And I will end with the final section of Noonan’s column, which comes immediately after discussion the Mooch, and continues with comments upon him before her conclusion:

Peggy Noonan wrote:He seemed to think this diarrheic diatribe was professional, the kind of thing the big boys do with their media bros. But he came across as just another drama queen for this warring, riven, incontinent White House. As Scaramucci spoke, the historian Joshua Zeitz observed wonderingly, on Twitter: “It’s Team of Rivals but for morons.”

It is. And it stinks from the top.

Meanwhile the whole world is watching, a world that contains predators. How could they not be seeing this weakness, confusion and chaos and thinking it’s a good time to cause some trouble?

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Terrorism: "..many fine people, on many sides" ― Donald Trump, Charlottesville, 8.15.17

“If there is a tit-for-tat escalation Trump will have difficulty improving relations with Russia, which has just thrown U.S.A. election to him,” KT McFarland to Thomas P. Bossert, Trump's aide.
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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by eddie on Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:00 am

I can actually pretty much agree with that. It sounds kind of odd but you know when you have that "ah-ha" moment about someone? Well, after reading his tweets a while back, I actually thought:

"He acts like a fifteen year old girl up late in her bedroom long after the adults have gone to bed"

The article, whilst some would say sexist, is kinda near the mark in my opinion.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:14 am

Yes, a lot of Republicans are getting twisted around with the Trump third column.  Peggy Noonan is a rough and tumble conservative writer for the already-conservative, Rupert Murdock-owned Wall Street Journal.

I won't say she's a pugilist, but she doesn't pull any punches.  I think we've all had a picture of Trump as an unbridled tough guy--we've all been thinking how disorganized he is, and how he's the antithesis of feminine cleanliness and fussyness--that this is an interesting alternative view.

But when Noonan's column was reported this evening on MSNBC, it was kind of an OH YEAH moment.  He is a pissy little whiner.  I had already come to the conclusion of the 'whiny' part, but the little girl completes the picture.  He is effeminate.

You caught that beforehand. Gd on you...gd job, mate. Razz

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Terrorism: "..many fine people, on many sides" ― Donald Trump, Charlottesville, 8.15.17

“If there is a tit-for-tat escalation Trump will have difficulty improving relations with Russia, which has just thrown U.S.A. election to him,” KT McFarland to Thomas P. Bossert, Trump's aide.
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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:22 am

I like her comments about Melania too.
I think she is spot on.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:55 am

Syl wrote:I like her comments about Melania too.
I think she is spot on.

Agreed. And I agree with Noonan, too. Melania is one cool customer.

That's why my money is on her to turn out to be the GRU agent running Donald. She's cool, and keeps to the background. And of course, she's Eastern European. Perfect.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Terrorism: "..many fine people, on many sides" ― Donald Trump, Charlottesville, 8.15.17

“If there is a tit-for-tat escalation Trump will have difficulty improving relations with Russia, which has just thrown U.S.A. election to him,” KT McFarland to Thomas P. Bossert, Trump's aide.
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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:22 am

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:I like her comments about Melania too.
I think she is spot on.

Agreed.  And I agree with Noonan, too.  Melania is one cool customer.

That's why my money is on her to turn out to be the GRU agent running Donald.  She's cool, and keeps to the background.  And of course, she's Eastern European.  Perfect.

I sense you have had a change of heart about Melania Quill....its good to see.

If she chooses to get involved I bet she would be a great asset for the USA just as many first ladies have been in the past. From what we see here she seems to have distanced herself from him and his politics as much as any high flying wife and mother possibly can do without actually leaving.

I still think, as I always have done, that he manipulates her to enhance his own image....but like Diana before her, a woman who starts off as the manipulated one can also often be the one to have the hidden strength.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by eddie on Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:57 am

I think you're all giving Melanie Trump too much credit. I think she just likes her lifestyle, couldn't really give a stuff about politics and looks "cool" because she doesn't really have anything to say.
Just because someone is silent, doesn't mean they're 'deep' and have something to say necessarily.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:28 pm

Does she like her lifestyle though?
Its not the one she signed up for when she married Trump.

None of us really know whether she is deep but she is certainly smart, she can speak 5 languages for a start. She is keeping herself out of the spotlight as much as she can.....but her public demeanour is certainly more dignified than her husbands, and tbh how many women married to such an oaf could manage to accompany him and still look outwardly and effortessly cool?

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by eddie on Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:50 pm

Syl wrote:Does she like her lifestyle though?
Its not the one she signed up for when she married Trump.

None of us really know whether she is deep but she is certainly smart, she can speak 5 languages for a start. She is  keeping herself out of the spotlight as much as she can.....but her public demeanour is certainly more dignified than her husbands, and tbh how many women married to such an oaf could manage to accompany him and still look outwardly and effortessly cool?

Okay firstly we are assuming a lot - perhaps she doesn't think he's an oaf? Perhaps she agrees with his opinions? And she "signed up" for a lifestyle of money, fame and power - she's no wallflower either! She has been married to him for a few years and just maybe she actually loves him.
Which would make them united in thought and principles, surely?

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:35 pm

eddie wrote:
Syl wrote:Does she like her lifestyle though?
Its not the one she signed up for when she married Trump.

None of us really know whether she is deep but she is certainly smart, she can speak 5 languages for a start. She is  keeping herself out of the spotlight as much as she can.....but her public demeanour is certainly more dignified than her husbands, and tbh how many women married to such an oaf could manage to accompany him and still look outwardly and effortessly cool?

Okay firstly we are assuming a lot - perhaps she doesn't think he's an oaf? Perhaps she agrees with his opinions? And she "signed up" for a lifestyle of money, fame and power - she's no wallflower either! She has been married to him for a few years and just maybe she actually loves him.
Which would make them united in thought and principles, surely?

Hmmm...body language Eddie, body language. Wink

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by eddie on Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:37 pm

Photos are simply moments in time. Who knows what goes on secretly?

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:40 pm

eddie wrote:Photos are simply moments in time.  Who knows what goes on secretly?

We have more than photos, videos are very telling.
Its true though, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors, especially in a marriage.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by eddie on Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:01 pm

Syl wrote:
eddie wrote:Photos are simply moments in time.  Who knows what goes on secretly?

We have more than photos, videos are very telling.
Its true though, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors, especially in a marriage.

Listen, I'm not defending the beast that is Trump, and you may all be right about his wife. I'm just saying, she can leave anytime she wants...

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:10 pm

eddie wrote:
Syl wrote:

We have more than photos, videos are very telling.
Its true though, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors, especially in a marriage.

Listen, I'm not defending the beast that is Trump, and you may all be right about his wife. I'm just saying, she can leave anytime she wants...

Can she?
Trump is a very powerful man, they have a child together...we all know what happened to Diana, but before that she was always afraid her children would be taken from her....none of us know what goes on behind the scenes.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by eddie on Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:50 pm

Syl wrote:
eddie wrote:
Syl wrote:

We have more than photos, videos are very telling.
Its true though, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors, especially in a marriage.

Listen, I'm not defending the beast that is Trump, and you may all be right about his wife. I'm just saying, she can leave anytime she wants...

Can she?
Trump is a very powerful man, they have a child together...we all know what happened to Diana, but before that she was always afraid her children would be taken from her....none of us know what goes on behind the scenes.

No but our imaginations aren't 'facts'. Quill will tell you off. Razz

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:56 pm

eddie wrote:
Syl wrote:

Can she?
Trump is a very powerful man, they have a child together...we all know what happened to Diana, but before that she was always afraid her children would be taken from her....none of us know what goes on behind the scenes.

No but our imaginations aren't 'facts'. Quill will tell you off. Razz

Well quill used to libel her, he insisted famous people like her very seldom sued....however since she did sue and won an undisclosed amount from the Daily Mail for printing unfounded stories about her....Quill seems to like her now. Cool

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 am

Apparently Melania has refiled her lawsuit:

The Independent wrote:Melania Trump's Daily Mail refiled lawsuit reveals she wants 'multi-million dollar' endorsements as First Lady
Lawsuit states she is 'one of the most photographed women in the world'

Samuel Osborne @SamuelOsborne93 Tuesday 7 February 2017

US First Lady Melania Trump has re-filed a libel lawsuit against the Mail Online's publisher, Mail Media Inc, for reporting on rumours she worked as an escort.

In the new filing, made this time in New York, the first lady's attorneys argue the report damaged her ability to profit off her high profile.

Ms Trump, the filing states, had a "one-in-a-lifetime opportunity" to launch a commercial brand of multiple products.

It says each product "could have garnered multi-million dollar business relationships" during the term in which Ms Trump is First Lady and thus "one of the most photographed women in the world."

The lawsuit says those products could have included apparel, accessories, jewellery, cosmetics, hair care and fragrance, among others.

Ms Trump filed the previous lawsuit against Mail Media Inc after it ran a story citing a Slovenian magazine's report that a modelling agency she worked with in New York in the 1990s also served as an escort business, linking wealthy clients with women for sexual services.

The Mail Online has since retracted the story, which it headlined: “Naked photoshoots, and troubling questions about visas that won’t go away: The VERY racy past of Donald Trump’s Slovenian wife."

The posting said it “did not intend to state or suggest that these allegations are true, nor did it intend to state or suggest that Mrs. Trump ever worked as an 'escort' or in the 'sex business.'”

Ms Trump's lawsuit was previously dismissed by a judge in Maryland.

The lawsuit, now filed in New York, where the corporation has offices, seeks compensatory and punitive damages of at least $150m (£121m).

She is also suing US blogger Webster Tarpley for reporting the rumours. The lawsuit against Mr Tarpley has been allowed to go ahead in Maryland.

I'm still of the opinion it won't get past New York Times v. Sullivan.  She is a public, newsworthy individual, and as such the First Amendment protects any speech/press about her, as long as it's absent malice.  It's the law.

Anyway, all that aside, she's still an admirable woman, regardless of her hooker status.  With a ship of fools around her for in-laws, she is able to maintain a certain high poise about her.  Vastly different from her whiny, girly husband.

I don't think her situation is quite like Diana, though.  If she were to divorce Donald, I don't think any court would grant custody of a child to a guy in Danbury Federal Correctional Inst.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:32 pm

I admire you for admitting you have changed your opinion of her Quill.....its always good to have an open mind.

I suspect her position may be similar to Dianas by the simple fact that she has a very powerful husband surrounded by very powerful people.
Diana was always afraid that her boys would be taken from her....in the end it was she who was taken from her boys.
But the outcome was the same...and imo Melania could have the same fears...IF she ever contemplated leaving him before he was ready to trade her in.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:37 pm

Syl wrote:I admire you for admitting you have changed your opinion of her Quill.....its always good to have an open mind.

I suspect her position may be similar to Dianas by the simple fact that she has a very powerful husband surrounded by very powerful people.
Diana was always afraid that her boys would be taken from her....in the end it was she who was taken from her boys.
But the outcome was the same...and imo Melania could have the same fears...IF she ever contemplated leaving him before he was ready to trade her in.

First, I don't think Donald is powerful.  I think he inherited a huge estate, and has actually lost more than gained money with it.  It's hard to detect, of course, because the general level of inflation continually rises.  In my opinion, he has been involved in money laundering Russian assets, and that his tax returns will show he's really in the dumps. It's not for nothing that he is hiding them.

Second, since the Noonan column came out last Saturday, all of America is nodding in assent: Donald Trump is a weak, whiny, girly man.  His street cred is in the gutter, and I doubt Melania could lose a custody battle to him.  

Granted, he could prolong it for some time with his money, but he would have to pay for her side as well as his own, and he would lose.  In the meantime, Baron lives with her.  What's she got to lose?

And what idiot judge would go against the norm in awarding custody of Baron, with Donald's approval ratings in the low 30's, the fruitcake circus he's running at the WH, and Melania conducting herself so elegantly.  He's living, walking proof that he is an inadequate parent.  In fact, I know some judges who would love the opportunity to make that ruling.  Wink

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“If there is a tit-for-tat escalation Trump will have difficulty improving relations with Russia, which has just thrown U.S.A. election to him,” KT McFarland to Thomas P. Bossert, Trump's aide.
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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:01 pm

Well he is the POTUS Quill, and with that position comes power surely.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:10 pm

Syl wrote:Well he is the POTUS Quill, and with that position comes power surely.

Not any more. Tune in...Trump's the one who has brought down the status of the presidency.

Now POTUS is a liability...probably even more so in personal life. Child custody is a real activity, unlike snubbing Angela Merkel.

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“If there is a tit-for-tat escalation Trump will have difficulty improving relations with Russia, which has just thrown U.S.A. election to him,” KT McFarland to Thomas P. Bossert, Trump's aide.
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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:31 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:Well he is the POTUS Quill, and with that position comes power surely.

Not any more.  Tune in...Trump's the one who has brought down the status of the presidency.

Now POTUS is a liability...probably even more so in personal life.  Child custody is a real activity, unlike snubbing Angela Merkel.  

OK...you know more about American politics than I do. But there are other ways to deny a parent the rights to their child...it doesn't always have to go through the courts.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Angry Andy on Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:57 pm



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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by eddie on Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:29 am

That's pretty good Andy, I have to say.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:55 am

Its clever....wonder when a woman will ever appear amongst those little faces.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:16 am

Syl wrote:Its clever....wonder when a woman will ever appear amongst those little faces.

I think the last election proved it will never happen. Unlike parliamentary primes, presidents are elected directly by the people. Thus, it is a role.

The role of leading man will not be filled by a lady. I wish it were not so, but politics is a movie.

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“If there is a tit-for-tat escalation Trump will have difficulty improving relations with Russia, which has just thrown U.S.A. election to him,” KT McFarland to Thomas P. Bossert, Trump's aide.
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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Jules on Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:39 am

The amount of chaos among the 'Shyte House staff' beggars belief.  Shocked  All of them backstabbing and undermining each other. What else can you expect when most of them are power-hungry egomaniacs with agendas?

Sarah Huckerby will probably go next.  She will soon tire of having to constantly cover up for Trumpet.

Scaramucci was in and out in 10days flat. Is it me or was he channelling his Italian compatriot Scarface???  All that swearing and threatening to sack  people before he even started the job. WALLY!!

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:32 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:Its clever....wonder when a woman will ever appear amongst those little faces.

I think the last election proved it will never happen.  Unlike parliamentary primes, presidents are elected directly by the people.  Thus, it is a role.

The role of leading man will not be filled by a lady.  I wish it were not so, but politics is a movie.

I fear you could be right....though it seems the UK is far advanced than the states is when it comes to believing a woman can rule the country....even politically.
'Politics is a movie' ? Yes I think you are right...we seem to have copied your process leading up to elections. Its all about who looks the best and performs the best...ie ..who is the best actor, elections are all smoke and mirrors now and not much substance.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Angry Andy on Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:13 pm

There was talk about Michelle Obama standing next time around. Now there is a credible candidate.
Clever, beautiful, dignified, wise, politically astute, in tune with the people, respected overseas and hated by Trump. Great qualities and qualifications.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:23 pm

I would vote for her....IF I was an American citizen. I love you

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by eddie on Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:07 pm

Angry Andy wrote:There was talk about Michelle Obama standing next time around. Now there is a credible candidate.
Clever, beautiful, dignified, wise, politically astute, in tune with the people, respected overseas and hated by Trump. Great qualities and qualifications.

I think she'd win. I actually preferred her to Obama.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:05 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I think the last election proved it will never happen.  Unlike parliamentary primes, presidents are elected directly by the people.  Thus, it is a role.

The role of leading man will not be filled by a lady.  I wish it were not so, but politics is a movie.

I fear you could be right....though it seems the UK is far advanced than the states is when it comes to believing a woman can rule the country....even politically.
'Politics is a movie' ? Yes I think you are right...we seem to have copied your process leading up to elections. Its all about who looks the best and performs the best...ie ..who is the best actor, elections are all smoke and mirrors now and not much substance.

The reason why European systems have had woman leaders is they are parliamentarily  chosen rather than directly elected.  Elected ministers elect their leader, and they are much more qualified and professional as a result.  

The US president is directly elected, and so the campaign is that much more a  popularity contest.  A Parliament is a professional system, engaged in a continuing organizational arrangement, with goals and rules.  The general electorate is not a panel of professionals, but a loose collection of consumers.  The GE acts as if they are not responsible if things go wrong.  They vote according to mood swing, not principle.

Look upon GE voters as an audience.  The presidential script calls for a male leader, not a woman.  They are voting for a script, not a system leader. What they want is a square jaw, and tall, dark and handsome.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:22 pm

Angry Andy wrote:There was talk about Michelle Obama standing next time around. Now there is a credible candidate.
Clever, beautiful, dignified, wise, politically astute, in tune with the people, respected overseas and hated by Trump. Great qualities and qualifications.

I like her too, but I've heard she wants nothing to do with it.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by eddie on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:32 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Angry Andy wrote:There was talk about Michelle Obama standing next time around. Now there is a credible candidate.
Clever, beautiful, dignified, wise, politically astute, in tune with the people, respected overseas and hated by Trump. Great qualities and qualifications.

I like her too, but I've heard she wants nothing to do with it.

Can't say I blame her.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:23 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

I fear you could be right....though it seems the UK is far advanced than the states is when it comes to believing a woman can rule the country....even politically.
'Politics is a movie' ? Yes I think you are right...we seem to have copied your process leading up to elections. Its all about who looks the best and performs the best...ie ..who is the best actor, elections are all smoke and mirrors now and not much substance.

The reason why European systems have had woman leaders is they are parliamentarily  chosen rather than directly elected.  Elected ministers elect their leader, and they are much more qualified and professional as a result.  

The US president is directly elected, and so the campaign is that much more a  popularity contest.  A Parliament is a professional system, engaged in a continuing organizational arrangement, with goals and rules.  The general electorate is not a panel of professionals, but a loose collection of consumers.  The GE acts as if they are not responsible if things go wrong.  They vote according to mood swing, not principle.

Look upon GE voters as an audience.  The presidential script calls for a male leader, not a woman.  They are voting for a script, not a system leader.  What they want is a square jaw, and tall, dark and handsome.

Well they got one out of four with Trump...he is quite tall. Razz

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:54 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

The reason why European systems have had woman leaders is they are parliamentarily  chosen rather than directly elected.  Elected ministers elect their leader, and they are much more qualified and professional as a result.  

The US president is directly elected, and so the campaign is that much more a  popularity contest.  A Parliament is a professional system, engaged in a continuing organizational arrangement, with goals and rules.  The general electorate is not a panel of professionals, but a loose collection of consumers.  The GE acts as if they are not responsible if things go wrong.  They vote according to mood swing, not principle.

Look upon GE voters as an audience.  The presidential script calls for a male leader, not a woman.  They are voting for a script, not a system leader.  What they want is a square jaw, and tall, dark and handsome.

Well they got one out of four with Trump...he is quite tall. Razz

Yep, that's right...at least by comparison. They say Trump didn't win so much as the other side put up a woman, who lost.

Hillary was unpopular, but review of the comments about her showed that her unpopularity had to do with her gender. And they were all the popularity contest kinds of comments: her husband cheated on her, she was too stern, didn't look feminine, etc. When would a male ever face such criticisms?

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by eddie on Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:59 pm

Quill the only criticisms I really ever heard people wrote about her (social media wise) is that she was untrustworthy.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:05 pm

eddie wrote:Quill the only criticisms I really ever heard people wrote about her (social media wise) is that she was untrustworthy.  

The actual crimes that they accused her of were a bust, proving it was fake news, like Obama is a Muslim, same with Benghazi, emails, etc., etc.  Even FBI Director Comey came out and admitted it was all a hoax.  

And when you asked why, they would come up with all these gender-related things.  Underlying all the fake stuff, was always her gender and the claim that she didn't behave in a womanly way: she didn't leave her philandering husband, she was too stern, she wasn't elegant and pretty.  It was all just will-o-wisp stuff.

Look how women get judged.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:14 pm

I thought the three televised confrontations she had with Trump she won hands down. Likeable she may not be, but in comparison to him she came across as bloody marvellous.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:25 am

Syl wrote:I thought the three televised confrontations she had with Trump she won hands down. Likeable she may not be, but in comparison to him she came across as bloody marvellous.

I agree totally.  But that just shows how powerful is the anti-female sentiment in American presidential races.  Politics is perception.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:05 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:I thought the three televised confrontations she had with Trump she won hands down. Likeable she may not be, but in comparison to him she came across as bloody marvellous.

I agree totally.  But that just shows how powerful is the anti-female sentiment in American presidential races.  Politics is perception.

Our countries attitudes are very different about certain things.
I think it was Richard Gere's American soldier character in the film 'Yanks' who said to the young English girl he was falling in love with...'we may look the same and sound the same but we are very different'...something like that anyway. Smile

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:45 pm

https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2017/march/trump-clinton-debates-gender-reversal.html

Well actually Hillary is even MORE obviously the unlikable corporate sell out as a man Wink



Based on the conversations after the performances, it sounded like audience members had their beliefs rattled in a similar way. What were some themes that emerged from their responses?
We heard a lot of “now I understand how this happened”—meaning how Trump won the election. People got upset. There was a guy two rows in front of me who was literally holding his head in his hands, and the person with him was rubbing his back. The simplicity of Trump’s message became easier for people to hear when it was coming from a woman—that was a theme. One person said, “I’m just so struck by how precise Trump’s technique is.” Another—a musical theater composer, actually—said that Trump created “hummable lyrics,” while Clinton talked a lot, and everything she was was true and factual, but there was no “hook” to it. Another theme was about not liking either candidate—you know, “I wouldn’t vote for either one.” Someone said that Jonathan Gordon [the male Hillary Clinton] was “really punchable” because of all the smiling. And a lot of people were just very surprised by the way it upended their expectations about what they thought they would feel or experience. There was someone who described Brenda King [the female Donald Trump] as his Jewish aunt who would take care of him, even though he might not like his aunt. Someone else described her as the middle school principal who you don’t like, but you know is doing good things for you.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:48 pm

The message Democrats need to take form Hillary's failure is not 'don't put up a woman' it is Dont but up a political hack that is known to be in the pocket of of the corpocracy Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

Other women have a decent chance, Hillary was bad regardless of gender.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:17 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I agree totally.  But that just shows how powerful is the anti-female sentiment in American presidential races.  Politics is perception.

Our countries attitudes are very different about certain things.
I think it was Richard Gere's American soldier character in the film 'Yanks' who said to the young English girl he was falling in love with...'we may look the same and sound the same but we are very different'...something like that anyway. Smile  

I have a fascinating seat from which to view this question.  All of my life I have studied British political thought and taught it in universities.  Lately--within the last, say, 15-years--I have been on this American political history kick.

There's a lot of difference, from the days when Edmund Burke said the colonists were simply Englishmen fighting for the rights of Englishmen.  America was not, and still is not a democracy.  It's an in-bai'tweener.  

The UK, with its Fabian period, caught the ride that propelled it way past America.  

Alexis de Tocqueville had it right...that America had the arrogant independence of a people too neglected by Parliament, and so damn-well gonna do what they want.  But too much room (endless frontier) stuck them in a place where they stopped growing cause they were too busy spreading out.

Then, I don't have to mention all the immigration that took place.

The genetic link to Britain is long, long, long gone.  Ancient history, really.  I mean no disrespect, but you guys are like an eastern Disneyland that we visit on summer vacation...out of a storybook land.

I have to join in with Canada and Australia to even feel the connection. And I'm within two degrees of a Scot.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by eddie on Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:11 pm

veya_victaous wrote:The message Democrats need to take form Hillary's failure is not 'don't put up a woman' it is Dont but up a political hack that is known to be in the pocket of of the corpocracy  Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

Other women have a decent chance, Hillary was bad regardless of gender.

You and I totally agree on this. I honestly never met one person who actually liked Hilary and it was fuck all to do with her sex. Quill is talking rubbish mostly. Michelle Obama was and still is, a popular woman and she's a.....woman! Rolling Eyes

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:43 pm

eddie wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:The message Democrats need to take form Hillary's failure is not 'don't put up a woman' it is Dont but up a political hack that is known to be in the pocket of of the corpocracy  Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

Other women have a decent chance, Hillary was bad regardless of gender.

You and I totally agree on this. I honestly never met one person who actually liked Hilary and it was fuck all to do with her sex. Quill is talking rubbish mostly.  Michelle Obama was and still is, a popular woman and she's a.....woman! Rolling Eyes

Not at all rubbish.  This is the reason why I firmly believe the US should break apart.  There are really irreconcilable differences.  Most of this stuck-in-the-mud thinking comes from the south.  Oh, to be rid of that trash.

We in California would love to elect Michelle Obama or Hillary, as both are good Democrats and will carry on programs for the people.  Look at the Republicans, with their attempts to pass deathcare...they are forever applying nail polish to a turd.  And we don't have anything against women.  

A Pacific States of America would be the perfect world, the best of the best, and leaving the skids of bigotry and evil behind.

cheers

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:20 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

Our countries attitudes are very different about certain things.
I think it was Richard Gere's American soldier character in the film 'Yanks' who said to the young English girl he was falling in love with...'we may look the same and sound the same but we are very different'...something like that anyway. Smile  

I have a fascinating seat from which to view this question.  All of my life I have studied British political thought and taught it in universities.  Lately--within the last, say, 15-years--I have been on this American political history kick.

There's a lot of difference, from the days when Edmund Burke said the colonists were simply Englishmen fighting for the rights of Englishmen.  America was not, and still is not a democracy.  It's an in-bai'tweener.  

The UK, with its Fabian period, caught the ride that propelled it way past America.  

Alexis de Tocqueville had it right...that America had the arrogant independence of a people too neglected by Parliament, and so damn-well gonna do what they want.  But too much room (endless frontier) stuck them in a place where they stopped growing cause they were too busy spreading out.

Then, I don't have to mention all the immigration that took place.

The genetic link to Britain is long, long, long gone.  Ancient history, really.  I mean no disrespect, but you guys are like an eastern Disneyland that we visit on summer vacation...out of a storybook land.

I have to join in with Canada and Australia to even feel the connection.  And I'm within two degrees of a Scot.

Maybe you study the Brits through your books rather than actually mix with us Quill...and I mean the modern day 'us'...not the historic us.
We can all form opinions about certain countries and their countrymen...for eg, some English view you lot as fat, over bearing, big mouthed braggarts...and no doubt some of you are. Razz

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:05 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I have a fascinating seat from which to view this question.  All of my life I have studied British political thought and taught it in universities.  Lately--within the last, say, 15-years--I have been on this American political history kick.

There's a lot of difference, from the days when Edmund Burke said the colonists were simply Englishmen fighting for the rights of Englishmen.  America was not, and still is not a democracy.  It's an in-bai'tweener.  

The UK, with its Fabian period, caught the ride that propelled it way past America.  

Alexis de Tocqueville had it right...that America had the arrogant independence of a people too neglected by Parliament, and so damn-well gonna do what they want.  But too much room (endless frontier) stuck them in a place where they stopped growing cause they were too busy spreading out.

Then, I don't have to mention all the immigration that took place.

The genetic link to Britain is long, long, long gone.  Ancient history, really.  I mean no disrespect, but you guys are like an eastern Disneyland that we visit on summer vacation...out of a storybook land.

I have to join in with Canada and Australia to even feel the connection.  And I'm within two degrees of a Scot.

Maybe you study the Brits through your books rather than actually mix with us Quill...and I mean the modern day 'us'...not the historic us.
We can all form opinions about certain countries and their countrymen...for eg, some English view you lot as fat, over bearing, big mouthed braggarts...and no doubt some of you are. Razz

Well, books are only an accumulation of your thoughts...to wit: the collected thoughts of a people. These thoughts are things handed down from father to son, mother to daughter. When you go beyond the present generation (a relatively tiny space, really) you are lost without the recorded history of those thoughts. This is what makes history relevant...it's your memory, without which you would have no consciousness.

I cannot, and never could go back to the year 1844. Yet it's when some important thoughts were recorded, and sent on to me. They are in books...can't even reach them without books, cause the people who thought them are dead and gone.

And the people I bump into on Regent Street or 5th Avenue are nothing, if not the collection of thoughts their mother passed on, and to her from the grand-mum, and so on. And so, the books are just an extension of those people. And you are better for widening your perspective--your group of friends you meet everyday--to include grandpa and great-grandpa, and on back.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Syl on Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:15 pm

I dont deny books are invaluable in capturing the past Quill.

But surely to REALLY understand the people you need to live amongst them.
Its all very well reading about their  history, lifestyle, habits etc etc etc as they were once.....but you would  learn more in a week of living amongst people than you ever would by reading about them.

People and places are ever evolving, so though a book may be historically correct it cant describe the people of today, everything and everyone is ever changing.

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Re: Trump the girly man

Post by Original Quill on Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:23 am

Syl wrote:I dont deny books are invaluable in capturing the past Quill.

But surely to REALLY understand the people you need to live amongst them.
Its all very well reading about their  history, lifestyle, habits etc etc etc as they were once.....but you would  learn more in a week of living amongst people than you ever would by reading about them.

People and places are ever evolving, so though a book may be historically correct it cant describe the people of today, everything and everyone is ever changing.

Well, it's hardly either/or.  You can include people in your life even while you include books.

And another thing: books aren't inevitably about history.  They can be about anything.  But the fact is, through books you widen the group of friends and associates with whom you have conversations.  The subject need not necessarily be history, but friends and associates are historical in being.

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