U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

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U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Guest on Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:33 am


  • Tories promised to scrap cap forcing schools to take pupils of other faiths

  • But now the Government is reportedly set to axe that manifesto pledge

  • Faith groups are thought to have been planning dozens of new free schools

  • It comes after Sir Nick Weller said legislation is needed to stop communities segregating themselves at school level




Officials are set to axe plans to allow single-faith state schools in Britain amid fears they could cause divisions. The Tories had promised to scrap a 50% admissions cap which forces oversubscribed faith institutions to take half of their pupils from other religions. But now the Government is reportedly set to axe that manifesto pledge which could lead to a new education crisis. Faith groups are thought to have been planning dozens of new free schools - some of which were being opened to cope with the influx of Catholic families from eastern Europe. But the Church said it would not open new state schools if half of the places had to be reserved for children who practice other religions.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4722016/Tory-U-turn-single-faith-schools-set-SCRAPPED.html#ixzz4neL5MGGr 




They should scrap all religious schools.

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:43 am

There should be no 'faith' schools. If parents want to 'educate/indoctrinate' their kids in matters of religion, that should be done at home, not at school.
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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Guest on Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:44 am

HoratioTarr wrote:There should be no 'faith' schools.    If parents want to 'educate/indoctrinate' their kids in matters of religion, that should be done at home, not at school.  


+1

100% agree.

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Syl on Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:38 pm

I agree.
There has to be something that brings the school together though, in the past it was morning assembly where Christian hymns and prayers were the focus.
Now we have such a diverse society its causing friction. My friend worked in a C of E school who openly welcomed other faiths, but many children of different faiths were not allowed by parents to join in assembly, so it became problematic.
Maybe the time is right to bring the whole school together in the morning and leave all religion out of it.

Hopefully songs will still be sung though.

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:07 pm

Schools should be all about teaching the actual subjects, not about teaching any religious mumbo jumbo... if parents want their children learning about any of that then they can do it in their own time in evenings and weekends...


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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:11 pm

It depends on the level of faith teaching IMO. I went to a CofE school, but it wasn't overly religious in any way. Lots of people want to send their children to Catholic schools because they consider them to be better than others.

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Guest on Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:29 pm

Education is where a lack of secularism impinges most on the lives of British citizens.


Schools with a religious character/ethos or 'faith schools' as they are commonly known, account for around a third of our publicly funded schools. This seriously limits choice for parents who do not want a religious education for their children, or do not share the faith of the local school.


Despite a consistent and dramatic decline in church attendance, and a growing proportion of non-religious citizens, successive governments have paved the way for ever greater religious involvement in education, often to the detriment of community schools.


We oppose publicly funded faith schools and campaign for an end to religious discrimination in school admissions.


We also campaign for an end to compulsory worship in schools and for reform of Religious Education.


A secular approach to education would see 'faith schools' phased out and ensure that publicly funded schools are equally welcoming to all children, regardless of their religious and philosophical backgrounds.
Visit our education statistics page for facts and figures on religion and education.


http://www.secularism.org.uk/religion-in-schools.html

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:31 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:It depends on the level of faith teaching IMO. I went to a CofE school, but it wasn't overly religious in any way. Lots of people want to send their children to Catholic schools because they consider them to be better than others.


True... many schools have a loose affiliation with CofE and no religious teaching, except for the odd song or two at assembly and an 'Amen' every now and then... i dont really see that this does any harm... and nobody is forced to join in if they dont want to...and we must remember that it was the church that set up most of these schools in the first place...


The problem is the faith schools that do more faith teaching than anything else...


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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:34 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:It depends on the level of faith teaching IMO. I went to a CofE school, but it wasn't overly religious in any way. Lots of people want to send their children to Catholic schools because they consider them to be better than others.


True... many schools have a loose affiliation with CofE and no religious teaching, except for the odd song or two at assembly and an 'Amen' every now and then... i dont really see that this does any harm... and nobody is forced to join in if they dont want to...and we must remember that it was the church that set up most of these schools in the first place...


The problem is the faith schools that do more faith teaching than anything else...


I agree Tommy.

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Guest on Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:38 pm

Publicly funded religious schools, or 'faith schools', currently make up around a third of our education system. This limits choice for parents who do not want a religious education for their children, or do not share the faith of their local school.

In order to ensure everyone's right to freedom of religion and belief is respected, we believe all publicly funded schools should be fully inclusive and equally welcoming to children of all religion and belief backgrounds.

We therefore campaign for an inclusive secular education system in which religious organisations play no formal role.

Whilst all schools should respect the beliefs of pupils and their families, no schools should seek to promote or instil such beliefs. Parents have the right to raise their child in accordance with their religious and philosophical convictions, but they should not expect to do that via the state or our publicly funded schools.

We consider the promotion and public funding of religious schools to be divisive and detrimental to social cohesion.

Modern Britain is a diverse and pluralistic society made up of citizens of many faiths and a growing number of non-religious people. State funding of religious schools is the least appropriate response to this diversity. Rather than facilitating the segregation of pupils along religious lines, we would like to see steps taken to ensure children of all faiths and none are educated together in a respectful but religiously neutral environment.

As long as faith schools are publicly funded, we campaign for an end to exemptions from equality legislation that allow them to select pupils on the basis of the religion, or religious activities, of the child's parents.

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:01 am

Syl wrote:I agree.
There has to be something that brings the school together though, in the past it was morning assembly where Christian hymns and prayers were the focus.
Now we have such a diverse society its causing friction. My friend worked in a C of E school who openly welcomed other faiths, but many children of different faiths were not allowed by parents to join in assembly, so it became problematic.
Maybe the time is right to bring the whole school together in the morning and leave all religion out of it.

Hopefully songs will still be sung though.

the national anthem is an idea (it is what is done down here, we don't have prayers in state schools)
But you might need to change it to something other than god save the queen Suspect Suspect Suspect

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Syl on Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:46 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Syl wrote:I agree.
There has to be something that brings the school together though, in the past it was morning assembly where Christian hymns and prayers were the focus.
Now we have such a diverse society its causing friction. My friend worked in a C of E school who openly welcomed other faiths, but many children of different faiths were not allowed by parents to join in assembly, so it became problematic.
Maybe the time is right to bring the whole school together in the morning and leave all religion out of it.

Hopefully songs will still be sung though.

the national anthem is an idea (it is what is done down here, we don't have prayers in state schools)
But you might need to change it to something other than god save the queen Suspect Suspect Suspect

It'll soon be 'God save our gracious king' anyway. king

I agree it should be changed though, its old fashioned and many people certainly don't revere the royal family anymore.

'Land of hope and glory' is a good choice if the national anthem were ever to be changed.....it would certainly wake the kids up at morning assembly.

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Syl on Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:50 am

Veya...did you know your national anthem was composed by a Brit? Laughing


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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by HoratioTarr on Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:53 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Syl wrote:I agree.
There has to be something that brings the school together though, in the past it was morning assembly where Christian hymns and prayers were the focus.
Now we have such a diverse society its causing friction. My friend worked in a C of E school who openly welcomed other faiths, but many children of different faiths were not allowed by parents to join in assembly, so it became problematic.
Maybe the time is right to bring the whole school together in the morning and leave all religion out of it.

Hopefully songs will still be sung though.

the national anthem is an idea (it is what is done down here, we don't have prayers in state schools)
But you might need to change it to something other than god save the queen Suspect Suspect Suspect

Why have an anthem at all? Why make kids sing along to that? I don't agree with it. It's like human beings have got to have some kind of icon to worship or look up to, be it a religious figure or ideology, a figurehead, or some political totem. It's bollocks.
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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Syl on Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:57 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

the national anthem is an idea (it is what is done down here, we don't have prayers in state schools)
But you might need to change it to something other than god save the queen Suspect Suspect Suspect

Why have an anthem at all?   Why make kids sing along to that?   I don't agree with it.   It's like human beings have got to have some kind of icon to worship or look up to, be it a religious figure or ideology, a figurehead, or some political totem. It's bollocks.  

What would you have the kids sing along to HT....Something by Kate Bush perhaps? Cool

I could see the boys having trouble with reaching the notes of Wuthering heights after their voices have broken. Shocked

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by HoratioTarr on Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:04 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Why have an anthem at all?   Why make kids sing along to that?   I don't agree with it.   It's like human beings have got to have some kind of icon to worship or look up to, be it a religious figure or ideology, a figurehead, or some political totem. It's bollocks.  

What would you have the kids sing along to HT....Something by Kate Bush perhaps? Cool

I could see the boys having trouble with reaching the notes of Wuthering heights after their voices have broken. Shocked

Why do they have to sing along to anything?
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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Syl on Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:14 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:

What would you have the kids sing along to HT....Something by Kate Bush perhaps? Cool

I could see the boys having trouble with reaching the notes of Wuthering heights after their voices have broken. Shocked

Why do they have to sing along to anything?
Singing and music uplifts the spirits. I think its a great way to start a school day.

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Original Quill on Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:20 pm

Obviously, this thread could only be about the UK. In the US, the 1st-Amendment prohibits any restriction either for or against a religion. Thus, religious schools have constitutional protection, but neither can public schools engage in any religious indoctrination.

Contrarywise, you guys actually have a state religion. Being one who doesn't believe in any bearded old man in the sky, I think the whole thing is nonsense. It shouldn't be dignified by any state support.

Perhaps we should pledge allegiance to the Guardians of the Galaxy. Or my favorite, Thor Save the Queen!

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:01 am


If it wasnt for the church setting up so many schools here back in the day, we wouldnt be so successful as we are now, and we wouldnt have so many 3rd world foreigners coming here and getting offended about are schools having christian/church themed names and affiliations... and wanting to set up their own 3rd world type schools here to try to bring their shit hole ways to the uk...



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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:00 am

Syl wrote:Veya...did you know your national anthem was composed by a Brit? Laughing


yes, one of the reason I would like it to change. Cool Cool Cool
others include lack of reference to Aboriginal heritage and lack of relevance to modern Australia

many of us would like to change to



originally by 'the seekers '


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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:04 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Syl wrote:I agree.
There has to be something that brings the school together though, in the past it was morning assembly where Christian hymns and prayers were the focus.
Now we have such a diverse society its causing friction. My friend worked in a C of E school who openly welcomed other faiths, but many children of different faiths were not allowed by parents to join in assembly, so it became problematic.
Maybe the time is right to bring the whole school together in the morning and leave all religion out of it.

Hopefully songs will still be sung though.

the national anthem is an idea (it is what is done down here, we don't have prayers in state schools)
But you might need to change it to something other than god save the queen Suspect Suspect Suspect

Why have an anthem at all?   Why make kids sing along to that?   I don't agree with it.   It's like human beings have got to have some kind of icon to worship or look up to, be it a religious figure or ideology, a figurehead, or some political totem. It's bollocks.  

we obviously the key point is to have a song representative of the nationals values and aspirations

We are one, but we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We share a dream and sing with one voice:
I am, you are, we are Australian
I am, you are, we are Australian.

We are one .. We are many .. We are Australian!

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:47 am

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Why do they have to sing along to anything?
Singing and music uplifts the spirits. I think its a great way to start a school day.

Then sing something kids can identify with.
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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by nicko on Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:50 am

A rap "song"?
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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:23 am

G'Day

Australia's other "National Song" :

https://youtu.be/CwvazMc5EfE

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Syl on Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:59 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:
Singing and music uplifts the spirits. I think its a great way to start a school day.

Then sing something kids can identify with.

Like what?

I suggested Land of hope and glory.
Something more modern could be...



Greatest Love of All


I believe the children are our are future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be
Everybody searching for a hero
People need someone to look up to
I never found anyone who fulfill my needs
A lonely place to be
So I learned to depend on me
[Chorus]
I decided long ago, never to walk in anyone's shadows
If I fail, if I succeed
At least I'll live as I believe
No matter what they take from me
They can't take away my dignity
Because the greatest love of all
Is happening to me
I found the greatest love of all
Inside of me
The greatest love of all
Is easy to achieve
Learning to love yourself
It is the greatest love of all
I believe the children are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be
[Chorus]
And if by chance, that special place
That you've been dreaming of
Leads you to a lonely place
Find your strength in love


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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Syl on Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:02 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Syl wrote:Veya...did you know your national anthem was composed by a Brit? Laughing


yes, one of the reason I would like it to change. Cool Cool Cool
others include lack of reference to Aboriginal heritage and lack of relevance to modern Australia

many of us would like to change to



originally by 'the seekers '


Yep...very rousing.
Judith Durham has hardly changed since the 60's. Cool

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:10 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:G'Day

Australia's other  "National Song" :

https://youtu.be/CwvazMc5EfE

well that does represent the nihilism that comes from being a British colony, a suicidal swagman and all Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

the problem is, much like the current anthem, it is too heavily based on the Anglo invasion and settlement period. no mention of the 50,000 years of heritage or the last 50 years that have made Australia what it is and allowed it to step away from the skirts of 'Mother England'

Maybe a rap like nicko suggests, one that highlights our advanced vernacular Cool Cool


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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:15 pm


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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Tommy Monk on Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:37 pm

Dont know what any of this has to do with the op...?

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Original Quill on Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:31 pm

Love the Seekers. Great song, I am Australian!

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:02 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Then sing something kids can identify with.

Like what?

I suggested Land of hope and glory.
Something more modern could be...



Greatest Love of All


I believe the children are our are future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be
Everybody searching for a hero
People need someone to look up to
I never found anyone who fulfill my needs
A lonely place to be
So I learned to depend on me
[Chorus]
I decided long ago, never to walk in anyone's shadows
If I fail, if I succeed
At least I'll live as I believe
No matter what they take from me
They can't take away my dignity
Because the greatest love of all
Is happening to me
I found the greatest love of all
Inside of me
The greatest love of all
Is easy to achieve
Learning to love yourself
It is the greatest love of all
I believe the children are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be
[Chorus]
And if by chance, that special place
That you've been dreaming of
Leads you to a lonely place
Find your strength in love


Nooooo, not Whitney Houston, although that was one her of better ones.

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:20 pm

Syl wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

the national anthem is an idea (it is what is done down here, we don't have prayers in state schools)
But you might need to change it to something other than god save the queen Suspect Suspect Suspect

It'll soon be 'God save our gracious king' anyway. king

I agree it should be changed though, its old fashioned and many people certainly don't revere the royal family anymore.

'Land of hope and glory' is a good choice if the national anthem  were ever to be changed.....it would certainly wake the kids up at morning assembly.

Perhaps the wording of our national anthem should be changed to reflect, for instance, that we hardly "rule the waves" any more, or that "scattering her enemies and making them fall"- not to mention "confounding their politics and frustrating their knavish tricks" - might be construed as a being somewhat presumptious if not passe! But "God save the Queen/King" remains appropriate because, constitutionally, the monarch is the Head of State of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the alternative would be a President and a republic.

So far as state religion is concerned, the monarch is also the Supreme Governor of the Church of England - and has been since the time of Henry V111.

My choice for a new UK national anthem, should the issue arise, would be Hubert Parry's "Jerusalem"...even thought it is actually a Socialism-inspired hymn (not that many of the Socialists herein would know that!)
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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Syl on Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:33 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Syl wrote:

It'll soon be 'God save our gracious king' anyway. king

I agree it should be changed though, its old fashioned and many people certainly don't revere the royal family anymore.

'Land of hope and glory' is a good choice if the national anthem  were ever to be changed.....it would certainly wake the kids up at morning assembly.

Perhaps the wording of our national anthem should be changed to reflect, for instance, that we hardly "rule the waves" any more, or that "scattering her enemies and making them fall"- not to mention "confounding their politics and frustrating their knavish tricks" - might be construed as a being somewhat presumptious if not passe!  But "God save the Queen/King" remains appropriate because, constitutionally, the monarch is the Head of State of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the alternative would be a President and a republic.

So far as state religion is concerned, the monarch is also the Supreme Governor of the Church of England - and has been since the time of Henry V111.

My choice for a new UK national anthem, should the issue arise, would be Hubert Parry's "Jerusalem"...even thought it is actually a Socialism-inspired hymn (not that many of the Socialists herein would know that!)

I'm not sure many schoolkids would appreciate singing the same anthem as the Womens institute Fred. Razz

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Original Quill on Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:34 pm

Fred M. wrote:But "God save the Queen/King" remains appropriate because, constitutionally, the monarch is the Head of State of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the alternative would be a President and a republic.

Razz Even though god has moved on? Laughing

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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Miffs2 on Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:04 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Fred M. wrote:But "God save the Queen/King" remains appropriate because, constitutionally, the monarch is the Head of State of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the alternative would be a President and a republic.

Razz   Even though god has moved on? Laughing

Not according to the American Bible Belt.
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Re: U-turn as single faith schools are set to be SCRAPPED amid fears they will heighten community divisions

Post by Original Quill on Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:50 am

Miffs2 wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Razz   Even though god has moved on? Laughing

Not according to the American Bible Belt.

Let's leave the Trumpsters out of it.  It's out little secret, Nems.

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