What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

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What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:11 pm


  • Recently, Chinese, Japanese and other educators have found that rote learning and endless drills produce high achievers without creativity, originality, or the ability to think for themselves. Western academic standards of rationality and objectivity have been behind most of the West's achievements.

  • "The campus has three mosques with a fourth one planned, but no bookstore. No Pakistani university, including QAU, allowed Abdus Salam to set foot on its campus, although he had received the Nobel Prize in 1979 for his role in formulating the standard model of particle physics." — Pervez Amirali Hoodbhoy, commenting on Quaid-i-Azam University in Islamabad, Pakistan, the second-best university among the 57 Muslim states of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation.

  • The very thought that "Islamic science" has to be different from "Western science" suggests the need for a radically different way of thinking. Scientific method is scientific method and rationality is rationality, regardless of the religion practiced by individual scientists.


In April this year, the Grand Mufti of Egypt, Shaykh 'Ali Gomaa, told an interviewer what he meant as a flat statement of fact: that there are no female heart surgeons, as such work required strength and other capabilities that no woman possesses. He put it this way:

"You may have noticed that there is not a single female heart surgeon in the world... It's amazing. It's peculiar. Why do you think that there are none? Because it requires great physical effort -- beyond what a woman is capable of. That's in general. Along comes a woman who challenges this, and she succeeds in becoming a surgeon. But she is one woman among several million male surgeons."

Now even a child could have carried out a simple Google search and realized that there are countless female surgeons and many female heart surgeons. It would not have taken long to find, for example, the US Association of Women Surgeons, which includes heart surgeons -- and that would have settled his hash. But apparently deep-seated, pre-formed judgements about women's abilities prevented Gomaa from using whatever powers of reasoning and intelligence he may possess.

Sadly, there often seems a profound absence of scientific probing within the Muslim world.
It seems reasonable to assume that levels of intelligence are pretty well the same around the world, regardless of race, gender, or religious affiliation. As human beings, we share the same brainpower, just as we share all other physical functions. Mercifully, earlier views of racial inequality have in most places been replaced by a more fact-based understanding of human characteristics. Today, theories put forward in the last two centuries of a supposed "racial supremacy" of white people have been happily discarded. In democratic societies, white supremacists are universally loathed. 

In the OECD's 2015 PISA science results, seven out of the top ten countries, based on achievements at school level, were in the Far East -- including Japan and China, with Korea at eleven. The United States was number 25. In mathematics, the results were even more striking: the top seven countries ranged from Singapore to Korea, with the United States at 39, well below most European nations. While such results show that Asian students are indeed intelligent, there is a price to pay for those outstanding results. Students put in long school days and long school years, and live regimented lives. Recently, Chinese, Japanese and other educators have foundthat rote learning and endless drills produce high achievers without creativity, originality, or the ability to think for themselves. Often, as we shall see, rote learning in the Middle East seems to lead to poor educational outcomes.[1]

For all that, we are all aware that different nations, different cultures and different religions achieve varied and even conflicting levels of intellectual achievement. The Western democracies, including Israel, have for some time now been the highest achievers in fields such as science, technology, medicine, information technology, astronomy and the exploration of space, as well as in modern academic disciplines such as sociology, anthropology, critical history, economics, analytical politics, statistics, and unbiased religious studies, among others. Western academic standards of rationality and objectivity have been behind most of those achievements. Sadly, many scholars in Western countries, not least the US, have abandoned even a semblance of neutrality on and off campus, following a deep politicization of many humanities subjects, above all the Middle East and related studies.

What follows has nothing to do with race or ethnicity. It is a discussion of why some cultures (in several forms) appear to have remained in high levels of ignorance and underachievement, and those cultures sometimes appear to include the culture of the religion of Islam, regardless of where it is practiced. Muslims belong to just about every ethnic group in the world, so it will be clear that concerns about their religion and culture (or cultures) are totally apart from race. Rather, they seem to stem from a widespread lack of literacy, opportunities for education and exposure to questioning, as well as to a wide range of ideas. Of course, if one is convinced that questioning might cause one to burn in hell forever, that could also be an impediment.

Perhaps the simplest way of showing this disparity between Islam and the rest is to compare the number of Muslim Nobel Prize winners with a much smaller group with comparable religious foundations, the international Jewish community.

There are approximately 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, a figure that may rise. There are roughly 14.4 million Jews in total. The disparity in numbers is remarkable. So is the disparity in Nobel Laureates. Take a deep breath. There have been twelve Muslim Nobel Laureates – seven for Peace (including one to an arch-terrorist, Yasser Arafat), two in Literature, one in Physics, and two in Chemistry. For a brief survey of how several of these Laureates have been treated by their fellow Muslims, see Gordon Fraser's Oxford University Press article. As for the tiny Jewish population, there have been 193 Nobel Laureates, equaling 22% of Nobel Prize winners overall.

This may not matter to many Muslims, who might value life's goals in a different way, such as regarding strict obedience to Islamic spirituality, law, and theology, as the only routes to paradise. Yet, increasingly large numbers of young Muslims, including many educated in Western universities, are ambitious to succeed in a range of more mundane pursuits and to see Islam return to the intellectual strength it displayed in its early centuries.[2]

The disparity in creativity between the Islamic world and the West is shown in figures and comments by the secular Pakistani nuclear physicist Pervez Amirali Hoodbhoy in his book, Islam and Science: Religious Orthodoxy and the Battle for Rationality, and in an important article in Physics Today, "Science and the Islamic world: The quest for rapprochement". Hoodbhoy provides striking information that shows the dearth of any real scientific or technological advance in the modern Islamic world in general. Focusing on the 57-member states of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), he writes:

A study by academics at the International Islamic University Malaysia showed that OIC countries have 8.5 scientists, engineers, and technicians per 1000 population, compared with a world average of 40.7, and 139.3 for countries of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Forty-six Muslim countries contributed 1.17% of the world's science literature, whereas 1.66% came from India alone and 1.48% from Spain. Twenty Arab countries contributed 0.55%, compared with 0.89% by Israel alone. The US NSF [National Science Foundation] records that of the 28 lowest producers of scientific articles in 2003, half belong to the OIC.

This unworthy level of scientific innovation is reflected in the number of patents issued by Muslim countries:

The situation regarding patents is also discouraging: The OIC countries produce negligibly few. According to official statistics, Pakistan has produced only eight patents in the past 43 years.

Behind all that lies a visible absence of practicing scientists across the Islamic world:

Bigger budgets by themselves are not a panacea. The capacity to put those funds to good use is crucial. One determining factor is the number of available scientists, engineers, and technicians. Those numbers are low for OIC countries, averaging around 400–500 per million people, while developed countries typically lie in the range of 3500–5000 per million.

Building on this, Hoodbhoy tackles some of the root causes of this lack; they reflect the present writer's own experience of teaching in a Moroccan university and studying at another in Iran:

Most universities in Islamic countries have... a starkly inferior quality of teaching and learning, a tenuous connection to job skills, and research that is low in both quality and quantity. Poor teaching owes more to inappropriate attitudes than to material resources. Generally, obedience and rote learning are stressed, and the authority of the teacher is rarely challenged. Debate, analysis, and class discussions are infrequent.

Hoodbhoy expands on that. At the heart of this problem, he says, lie attitudes developed from around the 10th century and later enforced across the Islamic world.[3] Those attitudes have been greatly reinforced by the growth of radical Islam in the modern era. Here is Hoodbhoy:

At Quaid-i-Azam University in Islamabad, where I teach, the constraints are similar to those existing in most other Pakistani public-sector institutions. This university serves the typical middle-class Pakistani student and, according to the survey referred to earlier, ranks number two among OIC universities. Here, as in other Pakistani public universities, films, drama, and music are frowned on, and sometimes even physical attacks by student vigilantes who believe that such pursuits violate Islamic norms take place. The campus has three mosques with a fourth one planned, but no bookstore. No Pakistani university, including QAU, allowed Abdus Salam to set foot on its campus, although he had received the Nobel Prize in 1979 for his role in formulating the standard model of particle physics.

The second-best university among 57 states has no bookstore. That alone is worth dwelling on. But Hoodbhoy goes farther, quoting a warning issued by the head of a mosque-seminary in Pakistan's capital city:

The government should abolish co-education. Quaid-i-Azam University has become a brothel. Its female professors and students roam in objectionable dresses ... Sportswomen are spreading nudity. I warn the sportswomen of Islamabad to stop participating in sports ... Our female students have not issued the threat of throwing acid on the uncovered faces of women. However, such a threat could be used for creating the fear of Islam among sinful women. There is no harm in it. There are far more horrible punishments in the hereafter for such women.

It is not surprising then, as Hoodbhoy and his colleagues report, that most students -- especially veiled females -- have become silent note-takers, timid, and reluctant to ask questions or engage in discussions.



Commenting about the disparity in creativity between the Islamic world and the West, Pakistani nuclear physicist Pervez Amirali Hoodbhoy wrote that no Pakistani university allowed Abdus Salam (pictured above) to set foot on its campus, although he had received the Nobel Prize in Physics. (Image source: Keystone/Getty Images)
Can this be reversed? Hoodbhoy is pessimistic, though he retains hope that the situation can eventually be resolved.

In the 1980s an imagined "Islamic science" was posed as an alternative to "Western science." The notion was widely propagated and received support from governments in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and elsewhere. Muslim ideologues in the US, such as Ismail Faruqi and Syed Hossein Nasr, announced that a new science was about to be built on lofty moral principles such as tawheed (unity of God), ibadah (worship), khilafah (trusteeship), and rejection of zulm (tyranny), and that revelation rather than reason would be the ultimate guide to valid knowledge. Others took as literal statements of scientific fact verses from the Qur'an that related to descriptions of the physical world. Those attempts led to many elaborate and expensive Islamic science conferences around the world. Some scholars calculated the temperature of Hell, others the chemical composition of heavenly djinnis. None produced a new machine or instrument, conducted an experiment, or even formulated a single testable hypothesis. A more pragmatic approach, which seeks promotion of regular science rather than Islamic science, is pursued by institutional bodies such as COMSTECH (Committee on Scientific and Technological Cooperation), which was established by the OIC's Islamic Summit in 1981. It joined the IAS (Islamic Academy of Sciences) and ISESCO (Islamic Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization) in serving the "ummah" (the global Muslim community). But a visit to the websites of those organizations reveals that over two decades, the combined sum of their activities amounts to sporadically held conferences on disparate subjects, a handful of research and travel grants, and small sums for repair of equipment and spare parts.

The very thought that "Islamic science" has to be different from "Western science" suggests the need for a radically different way of thinking. Scientific method is scientific method, rationality is rationality regardless of the religion practiced by individual scientists. Should we just shrug our collective shoulders and let the Muslim nations go their own way? Yes and no. A major problem lies in the fact that Islam is still expanding and that irrational attitudes in Muslim states have been growing, in stark contrast to the late nineteenth and early twentieth-century efforts in Iran, Turkey, Egypt and several other places, to move towards dispassionate and fact-based approaches to law, science, democracy, and even secularism.

This problem faces not only science. The strictures in the ways of thinking in Islamic fundamentalism affect all sorts of things, from politics to history to interfaith relations to peace negotiations. Here are some examples of the damage this does, not just to the Muslim world itself but to the rest of us. In 2016, UNESCO passed a resolution backed by 24 states, of which 11 were Muslim countries, and started by seven Muslim member states, declaring that sacred sites in Jerusalem -- the Temple Mount and the Western Wall -- are to be regarded henceforth as Muslim-only sites. This was followed by a 2017 resolution identifying the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron and Rachel's Tomb in Bethlehem as Palestinian sites identified by their Arabic/Muslim names. These deeply insulting, counter-factual moves defy centuries of historical information, archaeological research, and common sense. These were Jewish sites long before Islam came on the scene, but the Muslim states that want to deny any genuine Jewish history there do so, not on the basis of such scholarship or knowledge of early texts, but purely through a supremacist act of Islamic rejection.

We may ask why a wealthy state such as Saudi Arabia still beheads people on charges of witchcraft and sorcery, yet the USA, the UK and other countries engage in close trade relations with it. In 2005, Shafayat Mohamed declared that the 2004 Indonesian tsunami had been caused by a rise in homosexuality, yet he remains the imam of the Deobandi militant Darul Uloom Institute in Florida. In 2016 a Muslim man, Omar Mateen, murdered 49 gay men at a nightclub in Orlando. Had he been influenced by Shafayat Mohamed's words? In March this year, a French survey of the main factors leading to Islamic radicalization found that the chief factor was that young Muslims interviewed "defend an absolutist view of religion -- believing both that there is 'one true religion' and that religion explains the creation of the world better than science."
Islamic obscurantism and opposition to rational thought do not just harm Muslims; they cross all boundaries, geographical and intellectual. The belief that the Qur'an, shari'a law, or prophetic traditions override science and reason -- or that shaykhs, imams, mullahs, and other religious authorities in Egypt's al-Azhar University, or in Saudi Arabia, or in Iran or elsewhere, are superior in their knowledge and wisdom to scientists, university professors or elected politicians, merely because they are experts in Islamic theology and law -- all guarantee that Islam will remain fixed in its classical stance that all innovation (bid'a) is heresy and that heresy leads to hellfire. And that affects all of us, deeply.


Dr. Denis MacEoin is rationalist and secularist. He taught Arabic and Islamic Studies at a British university, has a doctorate in Persian Studies, and writes as a Distinguished Senior Fellow at the Gatestone Institute.




https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10578/islam-education-science

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by eddie on Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:42 pm

Is he pretty much saying that Muslims are backward in education dual to their following Islam?

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:27 am

and how will it be fixed according to dingbats
"preachy white guys"
like that has worked really well everywhere else, of course only after the holocausts and genocides committed the preachy white guys Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

and the saddest thing is It is Fighting AGAINST the preachy white guys that has made the west the success it is today, the preachy white guys was all for slavery and segregation and misogyny it is only generations of fighting against their "moral crusade" that enforces their opinions, that we have achieved the freedoms that allow equality today. if only we could just get the preachy white guys to shut the fuck up, the world could be improved greatly.

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:35 am

veya_victaous wrote:and how will it be fixed according to dingbats
"preachy white guys"
like that has worked really well everywhere else, of course only after the holocausts and genocides committed the preachy white guys Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

and the saddest thing is It is Fighting AGAINST the preachy white guys that has made the west the success it is today, the preachy white guys was all for slavery and segregation and misogyny it is  only generations of fighting against their "moral crusade" that enforces their opinions, that we have achieved the freedoms that allow equality today. if only we could just get the preachy white guys to shut the fuck up, the world could be improved greatly.


Another fine example of ostrich parasitic syndrome
You do realise many Muslims are Caucasians?

Now this is about education and how within rote learning problems developed, especially where, within Muslim countries many aspects of learning are suppressed.  Where once the Muslim world was enlightened and an area of learning, this has since ceased

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:17 am

meh, it's their country
Cant the Europeans just accept that.
it's not like you don't have enough of your own EDL yobs to educate

It's not like the most catastrophic thing in the history of man wasn't Europeans thinking they knew better than people in their own nations.

And laughable considering the staggering amount of propaganda and eurocentrism taught in Europe today. look at your own rote education. one holocaust causer is a monster than cannot even be considered Human and another holocaust causer is a hero... all due to the skin color and/or European presence of the victims...

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:25 am

veya_victaous wrote:meh, it's their country
Cant the Europeans just accept that.
it's not like you don't have enough of your own EDL yobs to educate

It's not like the most catastrophic thing in the history of man wasn't Europeans thinking they knew better than people in their own nations.

And laughable considering the staggering amount of propaganda and eurocentrism taught in Europe today. look at your own rote education. one holocaust causer is a monster than cannot even be considered Human and another holocaust causer is a hero... all due to the skin color and/or European presence of the victims...

1) Which countries? This about education and learning. If you are happy to back nations suppressing learning that is up to you. Other though will rightly be critical of this. How you are not shows again the very aspects of ostrich parasitic syndrome.

2) Many Muslims are Europeans also, so what has race and ethnicity have to do with this? In fact Muslims fair far better under an education system that is not suppressed as it is within Muslim majority countries.

3) I mean did you actually read the article, as if anything it wants to help a problem here where a mass of people are being denied an open education. You seem to be one of the few on here that argues off a very racist principle, when its not making a racial view here. Only you are

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by Original Quill on Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:50 pm

veya_victaous wrote:meh, it's their country
Cant the Europeans just accept that.
it's not like you don't have enough of your own EDL yobs to educate

It's not like the most catastrophic thing in the history of man wasn't Europeans thinking they knew better than people in their own nations.

And laughable considering the staggering amount of propaganda and eurocentrism taught in Europe today. look at your own rote education. one holocaust causer is a monster than cannot even be considered Human and another holocaust causer is a hero... all due to the skin color and/or European presence of the victims...

Hammer, nail, head! Twisted Evil

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:04 pm

Original Quill wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:meh, it's their country
Cant the Europeans just accept that.
it's not like you don't have enough of your own EDL yobs to educate

It's not like the most catastrophic thing in the history of man wasn't Europeans thinking they knew better than people in their own nations.

And laughable considering the staggering amount of propaganda and eurocentrism taught in Europe today. look at your own rote education. one holocaust causer is a monster than cannot even be considered Human and another holocaust causer is a hero... all due to the skin color and/or European presence of the victims...

Hammer, nail, head! Twisted Evil

So again the left show true backwardness I guess with regressive thinking.
As nobody is denying the wrongs done by either the west or the east
Both with slavery and genocide, though the left ignore when it is the East who has done this constantly in history.

Who both in the past would suppress new ideas, science etc, based off religious beliefs.

Now once Islam embraced open critical thinking and science. Now it does not. The west were once the same not open to critical thinking and science.

Now it is and why those within Muslim nations are lacking or able to have access to so much education

So the only nail on the head, is how you actually proved my point better by showing how both were backwards educationally due to religious dogmatic beliefs and now how the west is miles ahead, as it was able to embrace enlightenment, secularism and equality.

Thanks

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by veya_victaous on Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:23 am

it is you that is still thinking Like regressive colonialist
IT IS THEIR NATION
I don't have to back it or not, if i did or not is Irrelevant because it is THEIRS
NOT YOURS
NOT YOUR SAY
GET OVER IT
FIX YOUR OWN NATION

Even the epic evils of colonialism Would have been prevented if the UK looked at fixing its own Internal issues (Slums of the Victorian era) rather than trying to oppress people overseas, today you have EDL and other nazi like nationalists groups how about doing something about them

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by Guest on Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:14 am

veya_victaous wrote:it is you that is still thinking Like regressive colonialist
IT IS THEIR NATION
I don't have to back it or not, if i did or not is Irrelevant because it is THEIRS
NOT YOURS
NOT YOUR SAY
GET OVER IT
FIX YOUR OWN NATION

Even the epic evils of colonialism Would have been prevented if the UK looked at fixing its own Internal issues (Slums of the Victorian era)  rather than trying to oppress people overseas, today you have EDL and other nazi like nationalists groups how about doing something about them


You failed to answer my points to you

1) Which countries? This about education and learning. If you are happy to back nations suppressing learning that is up to you. Other though will rightly be critical of this. How you are not shows again the very aspects of ostrich parasitic syndrome.

2) Many Muslims are Europeans also, so what has race and ethnicity have to do with this? In fact Muslims fair far better under an education system that is not suppressed as it is within Muslim majority countries.

3) I mean did you actually read the article, as if anything it wants to help a problem here where a mass of people are being denied an open education. You seem to be one of the few on here that argues off a very racist principle, when its not making a racial view here. Only you are

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by Guest on Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:38 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:The OP of this thread smacks of an attitude of "white mans' burden" and that the title misleads the reader to think this is a "Muslim" issue.

Islam is not a race. But it's not a homogeneous culture either.

Ah another example of Ostrich parasitic syndrome

Do you not think there is an issue when people have education suppressed?

Which does happen in many Muslim countries?

Take evolution for example?

Seems you are the only one bringing race into this..

The facts in the article speak for themselves.

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:39 am

Read the article you posted dingbat
Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan are all mentioned explicitly Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:49 am

veya_victaous wrote:Read the article you posted dingbat
Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan are all mentioned explicitly  Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

I have read the article thanks, did you?

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:42 am

Original Quill wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:meh, it's their country
Cant the Europeans just accept that.
it's not like you don't have enough of your own EDL yobs to educate

It's not like the most catastrophic thing in the history of man wasn't Europeans thinking they knew better than people in their own nations.

And laughable considering the staggering amount of propaganda and eurocentrism taught in Europe today. look at your own rote education. one holocaust causer is a monster than cannot even be considered Human and another holocaust causer is a hero... all due to the skin color and/or European presence of the victims...

Hammer, nail, head! Twisted Evil

You know, if we'd actually take care of the radicals in our own countries and from the native cultures, we'd have a lot more authority when talking to other cultures about progressive values.

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:57 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:meh, it's their country
Cant the Europeans just accept that.
it's not like you don't have enough of your own EDL yobs to educate

It's not like the most catastrophic thing in the history of man wasn't Europeans thinking they knew better than people in their own nations.

And laughable considering the staggering amount of propaganda and eurocentrism taught in Europe today. look at your own rote education. one holocaust causer is a monster than cannot even be considered Human and another holocaust causer is a hero... all due to the skin color and/or European presence of the victims...

Hammer, nail, head! Twisted Evil

You know, if we'd actually take care of the radicals in our own countries and from the native cultures, we'd have a lot more authority when talking to other cultures about progressive values.


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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:10 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Hammer, nail, head! Twisted Evil

You know, if we'd actually take care of the radicals in our own countries and from the native cultures, we'd have a lot more authority when talking to other cultures about progressive values.

Why do you need more authority to speak out on wrongs based collectively, as you are doing blaming?

Its Ostrich Parasitic syndrome again. That somehow where in the west we have secular values, that because the US has not got up to speed with the UK and the rest of Europe, we have no grounds to speak out and defend  the oppressed in the rest of the world?
Talk about irrational thinking and quite selfish to only look at problems from within, when there are far pressing problems world wide

This is how you view tackling oppression Ben



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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:52 am

yeah but the rest of the world says YOUR the one suffering from Capitalist oppression Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

they say "sure, we got some problems but at least we aren't complete slaves to the market with spiraling divorce and suicide rates and the death of the family unit, no morality blah blah blah "

i.e. the exact same shit you say but in reverse, yu cant keep calling yourself  better if you cant prove you are actually better. And what is the vision they have of the UK?
image

image

which is every bit as accurate as the vision the UK has about anywhere else Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by Guest on Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:58 am

I keep laughing as Veya you have no comprehension how small the EDL is in this country, but that is nothing compared to how bad Australia is.

Remember?

http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/half-of-australia-wants-Muslim-ban/7865630


Like I say you need to look at your own nation which actually has far worse integration problems



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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:11 am

if we were worse, why aren't isn't there a forum full of Aussies saying the shit Devil, tommy, nicko and you say? maybe cause that poll was obviously taken in North Queensland, it's like doing a poll in some redneck US state Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

proof is In the pudding
You are on here ignorantly attacking Islam all the time (are you and EDL member? you act like it)
And I am working on my nation, that is why I am not on here attacking Islam everyday like you.

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by Guest on Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:18 am

veya_victaous wrote:if we were worse, why aren't isn't there a forum full of Aussies saying the shit Devil, tommy, nicko and you say? maybe cause that poll was obviously taken in North Queensland, it's like doing a poll in some redneck US state  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes

proof is In the pudding
You are on here ignorantly attacking Islam all the time (are you and EDL member? you act like it)
And I am working  on my nation, that is why I am not on here attacking  Islam everyday like you.


I suspect in Australia, most Aussies give you a wide birth
When considering this is a small forum, why would any be on here, when there is not many people at all.

Proof is in the facts which shows Aussies are far less tolerant of Muslims than the Brits

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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

Post by nicko on Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:59 am

Could Veya be a Muslim?
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Re: What Might be Missing in the Muslim World?

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