something to ponder

Go down

something to ponder

Post by Lord Foul on Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:25 pm

ok...appropos of nothing in particular, and NOT making any personal pov here, merely a philosophical musing

can anyone tell me why the L/W "way" is of particular virtue over any other
and
can any of the R/W explain how they consider THEIR view to be of any particular virtue over any other

consider things like

personal security of person
national security
individual rights
and thus the inevitable balace with personal responsibility
why should the left object to the entirely logical procedure of destroying those who endanger personal and national security
why are the right so blood thirsty as to want to apply that logic to ever more trivial offences

Immagine the scene whereby there is a narrow country road with a line of cottages built at right angles to the roads (brits will have seen this ...dunno about the states)

thers is only a narrow path along the front of the buildings andthe usual long gardens out the back with no access from the road.
there is no parking built .
now the guy at the end cottage next to the road makes an access into his rear garden.

the leftys would say that morally he should THEN allow his neighbours to access THEIR gardens via this access way he has personally funded, got planning for and built...
and suffer his neighbours driving over what is still his land as and when they please...and if he wont do that they would feel entitled to distrain on his property and seize it for that very purpose.OK they wouldnt be honest about the REASON...they would quote "traffic problems/safety/whatever excuse they could think of"
but the REAL motive of course would be ....envy....wouldnt it?

so why is L/W ism of greater virtue than R/Wism

it strikes me that even the BEST examples of both sides is of little more virtue than say the reality (not the history book version) of medieval life (not withstanding the advances in medical science especially) life was cheap then....and it still is....no matter what political system you live under...we (the "common man") are still expendable to political expediency, whether that be by the state directly (as in some R/W systems especially) or indirectly by political correct morons (a speciality of the L/W systems) failing to crack down sufficiently harshly on "foreign interference" (to be polite....) and failing to deal with criminality by removing "consequences" from the equation....




_________________
If at any time in 2017 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up snowflake, cause 2018 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


[b].(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
avatar
Lord Foul
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR

Posts : 9427
Join date : 2015-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: something to ponder

Post by Original Quill on Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:56 am

Well, you know my view of this. LW seeks the general interest (perhaps naively) and the RW seeks special interests.

We mistakenly assume they are the same thing, just different brands (means). But they are are a whole different animal. One seeks altruism, the other seeks self-interest.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
avatar
Original Quill

Posts : 24621
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 53
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: something to ponder

Post by Eilzel on Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:48 am

I honestly see the core LW virtue of all people being treated equally and society working together as putting LW politics as having moral superiority over RW politics.

That said, I do see some virtue on the Right, and nonsense extensions of LW politics.

I believe we do have to be fundamentally responsible for ourselves and our actions. In many areas especially regarding health and crime, I see people as being to blame for their situations in spite of the conditions that led them there.

To elaborate: I think that corporate marketing, hyper consumerism, and social conditions ARE a part of the reason people turn to crime, become obese, have unhealthy lifestyles leading to health issues and so on. That people are poor, kept ignorant by docile TV, have fewer opportunities in life due to major income inequality, are bombarded by advertisements for the latest crap products and junk food, HAVE TO be acknowledged as a cause of many modern problems. This is a problem with RW, do as you like, corporations without restrictions, politics.

However, in spite of all the above, choices by people who have to take responsibility cannot be ignored. I do not hold the view (that a minority of LW thinkers may) that people aren't responsible because of those problems I mentioned. Of course, people are affected by them, but they still do the things they do out of choice in the end.

So I do see virtue in the RW idea of people being ultimately responsible for themselves.

However, I strongly hold the view that without all those problems of RW politics (consumerism and such), we WOULD have a better society right now. That is an issue with RW politics, situations can be as awful as possible and an ardent RW ideologue will still tell you that in spite of someone being born in a poor background, of an ethnic minority, in an area with limited employment opportunities, with a bad education, who is fed a diet of crap TV, constant advertising of a life they cannot have, in a town with mostly fast food outlets etc- that that person is solely responsible for any bad thing that befalls them (be it obesity, crime or whatever). I agree marginally, but do not absolve the careless govt or the greedy corporations of responsibility there. Their actions cause this.

And again, political correctness, a virtuous LW idea at its root. It isn't a lot to ask people to not be unnecessarily offensive to or discriminate against less privileged people. The problem is when it goes too far, and we cannot have an honest discussion about the extreme social conservatism of a faith like Islam for risk of upsetting that community.

I see few virtues in the Right though tbh. Personal responsibility is only good if it goes hand in hand with govt and business responsibility. Free market capitalism is only good if it isn't abused as it is everywhere (especially developing countries). Honestly, what else is there to be praised?

_________________
"Tolerance of intolerance is cowardice"

"People who fear demons see demons everywhere"

avatar
Eilzel
Speaker of the House

Posts : 6463
Join date : 2013-12-12
Age : 33
Location : The Kingdom formerly known as Siam...

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: something to ponder

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:17 pm

Eilzel wrote:I honestly see the core LW virtue of all people being treated equally and society working together as putting LW politics as having moral superiority over RW politics.

That said, I do see some virtue on the Right, and nonsense extensions of LW politics.

I believe we do have to be fundamentally responsible for ourselves and our actions. In many areas especially regarding health and crime, I see people as being to blame for their situations in spite of the conditions that led them there.

To elaborate: I think that corporate marketing, hyper consumerism, and social conditions ARE a part of the reason people turn to crime, become obese, have unhealthy lifestyles leading to health issues and so on. That people are poor, kept ignorant by docile TV, have fewer opportunities in life due to major income inequality, are bombarded by advertisements for the latest crap products and junk food, HAVE TO be acknowledged as a cause of many modern problems. This is a problem with RW, do as you like, corporations without restrictions, politics.

However, in spite of all the above, choices by people who have to take responsibility cannot be ignored. I do not hold the view (that a minority of LW thinkers may) that people aren't responsible because of those problems I mentioned. Of course, people are affected by them, but they still do the things they do out of choice in the end.

So I do see virtue in the RW idea of people being ultimately responsible for themselves.

However, I strongly hold the view that without all those problems of RW politics (consumerism and such), we WOULD have a better society right now. That is an issue with RW politics, situations can be as awful as possible and an ardent RW ideologue will still tell you that in spite of someone being born in a poor background, of an ethnic minority, in an area with limited employment opportunities, with a bad education, who is fed a diet of crap TV, constant advertising of a life they cannot have, in a town with mostly fast food outlets etc- that that person is solely responsible for any bad thing that befalls them (be it obesity, crime or whatever). I agree marginally, but do not absolve the careless govt or the greedy corporations of responsibility there. Their actions cause this.

And again, political correctness, a virtuous LW idea at its root. It isn't a lot to ask people to not be unnecessarily offensive to or discriminate against less privileged people. The problem is when it goes too far, and we cannot have an honest discussion about the extreme social conservatism of a faith like Islam for risk of upsetting that community.

I see few virtues in the Right though tbh. Personal responsibility is only good if it goes hand in hand with govt and business responsibility. Free market capitalism is only good if it isn't abused as it is everywhere (especially developing countries). Honestly, what else is there to be praised?

Interesting and intelligent thoughts, Lez. Sadly lacking on forums these days.
avatar
Fred Moletrousers
MABEL, THE GREAT ZOG

Posts : 1958
Join date : 2014-01-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: something to ponder

Post by Eilzel on Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:26 am

Appreciated Fred Smile

_________________
"Tolerance of intolerance is cowardice"

"People who fear demons see demons everywhere"

avatar
Eilzel
Speaker of the House

Posts : 6463
Join date : 2013-12-12
Age : 33
Location : The Kingdom formerly known as Siam...

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: something to ponder

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum