Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

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Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by Thorin on Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:04 pm

Last night JW3 hosted a screening of Whitewashed, a film about antisemitism in the Labour Party; this was followed by a fascinating discussion between David Hirsh and Howard Jacobson. The film, produced by Judith Ornstein, presented by David Hirsh, and made by J-TV, was prompted by the many failings of the Chakrabarti report.  It draws on submissions to the report, submissions which contributors felt had been brushed aside.

One point emphasised in Whitewashed, particularly by Eve Garrard, was the way in which policies relating to Zionism have more impact at home than in Israel, with Jews sometimes feeling they have to denounce Israel in order to be accepted.

Another strand was the way in which people fail to deal with antisemitism not, or not only, because of a lack of understanding, but because of an unwillingness to understand. You can watch the film here



and here’s just one brief example of the problem, in case you need a reminder; it’s taken from Richard Gold’s submission:
Jeremy Corbyn
After his brother tweeted “#Zionists can’t cope with anyone supporting rights for #Palestine”, (with regard to Louise Elman’s comments about antisemitism in the Labour Party) Jeremy Corbyn when asked if he thought his brother’s tweet was wrong went on to agree with his brother saying: “No my brother isn’t wrong. My brother has his point of view, I have mine. We actually fundamentally agree – we are a family that has been fighting racism from the day we were born. My mother was at Cable Street.”

The lively debate which followed the screening highlighted the difficulties experienced by many traditional Labour voters in the current climate.  Some in the audience had felt that it was worth supporting a Labour moderate, as Corbyn couldn’t possibly become PM, and the moderate would continue to fight Corbyn.
That reasoning was treated with some wryness, particularly by Howard Jacobson who compared some former anti-Corbyn figures in Labour to dogs rolling over to concede abject defeat.

However Joan Ryan, Louise Ellman and Jeremy Newmark received a warm response – and John Mann brought the house down with his impassioned speech urging Labour supporters to stay on and fight rather than give up.

Although there seemed a strong consensus in the audience that there was a problem, opinion was divided as to its precise nature and extent. Some saw the antisemitism issue as an active attraction for some – perhaps many –  Labour supporters. Others emphasised the many positive reasons people might have for voting Labour.

I agreed with David Hirsh when he asserted that people can be antisemitic, or articulate/approve antisemitic sentiments, while sincerely believing they oppose antisemitism.  If they look inside themselves and don’t see a problem – that, for them, is the end of the discussion. They can’t be at fault.  In conceding the good faith of many of his opponents Hirsh is more generous than those who wield the Livingstone formulation, accusing those who raise concerns about antisemitism of duplicitous motives.

One theme running through the conversation was the sense that antisemitism is the only acceptable form of racism.  Recent events in Chicago would seem to support that contention.   At a ‘Dyke March’, one element in the city’s Gay Pride festivities, Jewish marchers bore a rainbow flag superimposed with a Star of David.


By analogy, Imaan supporters also choose to highlight their double identity as gay Muslims.

Sometimes a Star of David is just a Star of David – but apparently for some it represents a monstrous threat. Here’s the organiser’s attempt to excuse the antisemitic exclusion of Jewish symbols.
“Yesterday during the rally we saw three individuals carrying Israeli flags super imposed on rainbow flags. Some folks say they are Jewish Pride flags. But as a Collective we are very much pro-Palestine, and when we see these flags we know a lot of folks who are under attack by Israel see the visuals of the flag as a threat, so we don’t want anything in the [Dyke March] space that can inadvertently or advertently express Zionism,” she said. “So we asked the folks to please leave. We told them people in the space were feeling threatened.”

Last night at JW3 we heard how antisemites always assume Jews are ‘up to something’. This is exactly the dynamic of the Chicago debacle:
If you’re a Jew, and you’re open about it, the presumption is you must be an agent of Israeli hasbara unless you engage in public self-flagellation demonstrating the contrary. A Star of David suffices to show you’re in on the plot. A Star of David with a rainbow is enough to infer your true objectives. What else could you possibly be doing at a gay pride parade other than serving as an agent of a foreign power?

For some further analysis of this shameful incident, here’s Jamie Kirchick’s article in The Tablet.
The JW3 discussion was recorded so do watch out for when it becomes available – it was an excellent event.


http://hurryupharry.org/2017/06/27/whitewashed-%E2%80%93-and-%E2%80%98pinkwashing%E2%80%99-hogwash/

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:53 am


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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:58 pm

Arrow

"Whitewashing"  ???

"Pinkwashing"  ???

"Hogwashing"  ???


Let them take their place in line, alongside all of the corporate "greenwashing" that we have seen from many companies (e.g. Monsanto, Bayer, Exxon, BP..) in recent years.

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:00 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Arrow

"Whitewashing"  ???

"Pinkwashing"  ???

"Hogwashing"  ???


Let them take their place in line, alonside all of the corporate "greenwashing" that we have seen from many companies (e.g. Monsanto, Bayer, Exxon, BP..) in recent years.


Misdirection, yet again.

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:14 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Cool  

cheers  


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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:16 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Cool  

cheers  



So you think discrimination and prejudice of people for their beliefs is acceptable and to you funny?

Interesting

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:12 pm

.
tongue

Go suck a Kindle...



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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:17 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:.
tongue

Go suck a Kindle...




So you would say the same be it discrimination and prejudice against Muslims then?

Or lefties?

What did you say on the other thread about ending "all" hatred?

Seems you instead want to perpetuate that hate.

Go figure

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:16 am

Thorin is quite the white washer of history when not spouting total hogwash Razz Razz Razz Razz

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by Thorin on Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:28 am

veya_victaous wrote:Thorin is quite the white washer of history when not spouting total hogwash Razz Razz Razz Razz


Hmm so yet again more lies invented to deflect away from this blatant prejudice, discrimination and antisemitism.

I mean imagine if Gay Muslims were told to leave a pride march because Islam was viewed as an Islamofascist ideology.

Those on the regressive left would be rightly calling this discrimination and prejudice, but when it comes to Jews, it seems they have no objection to them being discriminated

Hence the following



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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:33 am

preaching Zionism is like preaching EDL or Sharia. just plain evil with no place in civilized societies Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

I mean, imagine if there was an English man that commit a holocaust and there where those that pushed such a heavily whitewashed version of history that some ignorant people though he was a hero???

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by Thorin on Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:42 am

veya_victaous wrote:preaching Zionism is like preaching EDL or Sharia. just plain evil with no place in civilized societies Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

I mean, imagine if there was an English man that commit a holocaust and there where those that pushed such a heavily whitewashed version of history that some ignorant people though he was a hero???


So Zionism which is nothing more than the self determination of the Jews and to have a homeland is pure evil to you.
So Australian self determination is thus evil to you.
Those Scottish wanting self determination and independence is pure evil to you

Now apparently as seen its evil for people to have a home and self determination, which is nothing more than regressives trying to justify and normalise their racist hate of Israeli's and Jew, but where something actually preaches extremism and is seen as laws based off an ideology, the regressive left have no issue with this.

I mean Islam teaches to execute homosexuals

This is an extremist view

It teaches to execute adulterers or lash them

This is an extremist view

It teaches to execute those who Blaspheme

This is an extremist view

It teaches to execute those who leave Islam

This is an extremist view

It teaches that there is no such thing as marital rape

This is an extremist view

It teaches that men can beat their wives

This is an extremist view

Not seen as evil it seems by the regressive left and yet the above happens in Gaza and countless other Muslim nations

Now in Israel it has equality for homosexuals and where Arabs have better rights than they do in any other Arab nation

I mean why are those who discriminated against these Jews not protesting against the discrimination of Homosexuals in the Palestinian territories or Muslim nations?




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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:44 am


.

"Land Rights for Gay Whales  !"

Let those Muslim Chooks run free !


.

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by Thorin on Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:50 am

Can anyone translate the above by Wolf?

Muslim Chooks?

Is this some form of Helicopter?

Land rights for Whales?

Why would they need land rights?

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by eddie on Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:29 am

A "chook" is Aussie slang for "chicken", I think?

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:18 am

Thorin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:preaching Zionism is like preaching EDL or Sharia. just plain evil with no place in civilized societies Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

I mean, imagine if there was an English man that commit a holocaust and there where those that pushed such a heavily whitewashed version of history that some ignorant people though he was a hero???


So Zionism which is nothing more than the self determination of the Jews and to have a homeland is pure evil to you.
So Australian self determination is thus evil to you.
Those Scottish wanting self determination and independence is pure evil to you


yep total evil even MORE so if it were just for one insular religious group
you can convert to Islam but not to Judaism Wink so  Judaism is worse and Judaism also say the same shit about gays and women  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes

And Any Australian determination that doesn't take into account ALL peoples living in this land is Evil, totally fucking Evil

You see the problem with the dickheads in the middle east and Zionism in any form?? it blatantly obvious that you are not comparing apple to apples and think self determination is some magic bullshit that one group can exercise without impacting it's innocent neighbors.

Anyway, when you grow up and learn to think critically rather than just spout incoherent nonsense you will understand why you are so very wrong in your one sided immoral crusade for Zionist rule.[/quote]

[/quote]

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by Thorin on Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:30 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Thorin wrote:


So Zionism which is nothing more than the self determination of the Jews and to have a homeland is pure evil to you.
So Australian self determination is thus evil to you.
Those Scottish wanting self determination and independence is pure evil to you


yep total evil even MORE so if it were just for one insular religious group
you can convert to Islam but not to Judaism Wink so  Judaism is worse and Judaism also say the same shit about gays and women  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes
Thorin wrote: So you think your own self determination is evil and that you should and every other Australian have no say and be ruled by say the English then?
What a poor failed argument and even worse you cannot reason why having a nation stated and self determination is wrong, making every nation in the world to you evil. Zionism is not really even a religious movement but a nationalist movement just like Scottish Independence. You do realise that Jews are an ethnic group also do you not?
Again homosexuals have rights in Israel  so why is that Veya?
You can convert to Judaism lol
How do you think Greeks converted to Judaism, let alone people today?

And Any Australian determination that doesn't take into account ALL peoples living in this land is Evil, totally fucking Evil
Thorin wrote: So again you invoke evil, when Austrian laws does take into account all its citizens

You see the problem with the dickheads in the middle east and Zionism in any form?? it blatantly obvious that you are not comparing apple to apples and think self determination is some magic bullshit that one group can exercise without impacting it's innocent neighbors.
Thorin wrote: So based on your view, Bosnia Independence was evil to you and what the Serbs did to the Bosnian Muslims was something good to you. As to have self determination for the Bosnian is evil to you?

Anyway, when you grow up and learn to think critically rather than just spout incoherent nonsense you will understand why you are so very wrong in your one sided immoral crusade for Zionist rule.

The only thing shown here is your utter ignorance how again you think something is evil, without reasoning why other than showing how much you hate a people

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:10 am

No, I think Self Determination is a thought bubble thought up by an idiot that thinks that one lives and act in isolation of their surrounding. Basically only a complete and utter moron would think it is actually a valid thing it is most obviously a 2 bit catch phrase used in propaganda to justify greed.

My Self determination is Not Mine alone as it will inevitably effect my neighbors, for me to value My self determination over the equal rights of others to have a say in the future is evil..

And apart from that all your arguments are formed in you own propaganda driven mindset that the world is full of 'goodies and baddies' instead of just being full of people that are varying degrees of dickheads and/or geranium Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by Thorin on Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:16 am

1) So your objection to self determination is not based on reason, but some deluded belief, that people should have no say in their own nation. Which is basically backing the view of a theocracy or dictatorship.

2) Which shows you do not understand what self determination of a people, determines its own statehood and forms of Government? Its a collective view, where people can also disagree on policies and how and why in a democratic society people vote on such issues. Every act has cause and effect. Which by your reasoning you should never leave your house or interact with anyone, as it could then effect other people. Its about as dumb an argument as you can get

3) Then you just end with even more inane drivel, where throughout you failed to address the vast majority of my points and the reason, because you simple cannot

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:32 pm

Thorin wrote:1) So your objection to self determination is not based on reason, but some deluded belief, that people should have no say in their own nation. Which is basically backing the view of a theocracy or dictatorship.

2) Which shows you do not understand what self determination of a people, determines its own statehood and forms of Government? Its a collective view, where people can also disagree on policies and how and why in a democratic society people vote on such issues. Every act has cause and effect. Which by your reasoning you should never leave your house or interact with anyone, as it could then effect other people. Its about as dumb an argument as you can get

3) Then you just end with even more inane drivel, where throughout you failed to address the vast majority of my points and the reason, because you simple cannot

Rolling Eyes

What is it with you, Dodge, that your strange euro-centric idea of "self determination" means not listening to the indigenous people --  but instead, you want to listen to a small minority of militant-minded separitists...

Your idiotic and insulting ideas would mean that --  

* the great majority of Aborigines who have already elected to remain Australians would be disenfranchised, and forced to kotwtow to the minority who wants an "Aboriginal nation";

*  you would rip the great majority of present-day Aborigines away from their urban existence, away from friends, neighbours and relatives, and shop them off to a new home;

*  you would completely ignore what they are asking for (constitutional recognition, a fair go, reasonable recompense for historical wrongs..), and instead force your own sophistry-bred "self determination" nonsense onto them ?


Your solution seems to be to dictate to them now on what a small minority wants  --  much like the British invaders did back in 1788..

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:35 pm

veya_victaous wrote:preaching Zionism is like preaching EDL or Sharia. just plain evil with no place in civilized societies Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

I mean, imagine if there was an English man that commit a holocaust and there where those that pushed such a heavily whitewashed version of history that some ignorant people though he was a hero???


Interesting that you say that preaching sharia is 'just plain evil with no place in civilized societies'...

That is pretty much the same as the EDL view on sharia too...!

clappy

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Re: Whitewashed – and ‘pinkwashing’ hogwash

Post by Thorin on Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:39 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Rolling Eyes

What is it with you, Dodge, that your strange euro-centric idea of "self determination" means not listening to the indigenous people --  but instead, you want to listen to a small minority of militant-minded separitists...


Your idiotic and insulting ideas would mean that --  

* the great majority of Aborigines who have already elected to remain Australians would be disenfranchised, and forced to kotwtow to the minority who wants an "Aboriginal nation";

*  you would rip the great majority of present-day Aborigines away from their urban existence, away from friends, neighbours and relatives, and shop them off to a new home;

*  you would completely ignore what they are asking for (constitutional recognition, a fair go, reasonable recompense for historical wrongs..), and instead force your own sophistry-bred "self determination" nonsense onto them ?


Your solution seems to be to dictate to them now on what a small minority wants  --  much like the British invaders did back in 1788..

So to sum up, you are against the 6,000 stateless people having self determination world wide?

This is not based on Australia you muppet, but even then you show why you back imperialism attitudes

As I back Aboriginal rights to self determination

I may not agree with their laws and belief, but their right to self determination?

I will even stand against beliefs and poor laws, but I will back the right to self determination

Now do you understand that?

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