Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

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Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:03 pm

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Police will consider manslaughter charges as part of the investigation into the Grenfell Tower blaze, which left at least 79 people dead. Scotland Yard said on Friday that the fire started in a faulty fridge and that insulation and tiles on the block failed safety tests. Nine out of the 79 dead or presumed dead have been formally identified, police said.

Metropolitan Police Detective Superintendent Fiona McCormack said: “I know there is a fear that that number is a lot higher and I do not want any hidden victims of this tragedy.”

Police said they are still trying to establish who was in the 24-storey tower block the night the fire broke out last Wednesday. DSI McCormack confirmed that neither the police, nor the Home Office, will use the tragedy to check the immigration status of anybody in the block and urged friends and relatives of those feared missing to come forward.

The search of the Lancaster West Estate high-rise could take until the end of the year.

Police said there are currently more than 250 specialist investigators working on “all aspects” of the investigation.

“The terrible reality is we may not find or identify all those who died in the fire,” DSI McCormack added.


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/grenfell-tower-tiles-failed-safety-tests-met-police-say_uk_594cdc45e4b0da2c731ad593?utm_hp_ref=uk&utm_hp_ref=uk

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:16 pm

magica wrote:How the he'll are we insulting Syl,  show me where.

You really are amazing at turning your insults around to blame others.

Oh we got insecurity issues now, don't make me laugh you know nothing about me or rags.

You seem upset hun

You mocked syl and now shy away from telling her

Do you realise i have been giving you all your plus points, because i think you argue well?

Stop acting like a child hun

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by magica on Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:30 pm

Eh I can't see where I've mocked syl, show me. Better still, wait til Syl comes back and we can ask her.

I have to nip off for a bit, be back soon

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:31 pm

magica wrote:Eh I can't see where I've mocked syl, show me. Better still, wait til Syl comes back and we can ask her.

I have to nip off for a bit, be back soon

All the best magica

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:45 pm

magica wrote:How the he'll are we insulting Syl,  show me where.

You really are amazing at turning your insults around to blame others.

Oh we got insecurity issues now, don't make me laugh you know nothing about me or rags.

We're not - he's being a prat.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:47 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
magica wrote:How the he'll are we insulting Syl,  show me where.

You really are amazing at turning your insults around to blame others.

Oh we got insecurity issues now, don't make me laugh you know nothing about me or rags.

We're not - he's being a prat.

When ignorance fails, rags resorts to abuse Laughing

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by HoratioTarr on Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:44 pm

magica wrote:
Thorin wrote:

So if the fridge was fault, how was it his fault?

You blamed him for leaving, when an rational person faced with fire, just as an animal does, flees a fire. As not only does the fire kill itself but so does the toxic fumes. I showed to you, that he warned people and that the fire brigade put out the fire in the flat.

You want to know how fires reignite? or how fires ignite elsewhere due to a fire?

Its a combination of heat and oxygen that are combustible. Often fires that are put out, are susceptible to reigniting.

Why didn't he alert the fire services and the residents then. That's what I'm blaming him for not for having the fridge. He only told one resident.

Perhaps he didn't have a phone. Or perhaps his battery was dead. That's feasible. What does seem odd, is that he had time to pack a suitcase.
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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by magica on Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:25 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
magica wrote:

Why didn't he alert the fire services and the residents then. That's what I'm blaming him for not for having the fridge. He only told one resident.

Perhaps he didn't have a phone.  Or perhaps his battery was dead.   That's feasible.  What does seem odd, is that he had time to pack a suitcase.

Exactly HT, he packed, then told the neighbour.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:11 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
magica wrote:I said this at the beginning.  If he only chucked water over it and alerted the Fire Station, and people in the flat, I doubt it would've got as bad as it did.  He ran away without calling 999, he is culpable of manslaughter.

You don't chuck water over an electrical fire.

Generally speaking, yes, you are right... you shouldnt throw water over a fuseboard... but if this fridge had blown up and was on fire then it would have most likely tripped out the breaker and/or the plug fuse so would almost certainly be electrically dead...


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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Syl on Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:45 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
magica wrote:How the he'll are we insulting Syl,  show me where.

You really are amazing at turning your insults around to blame others.

Oh we got insecurity issues now, don't make me laugh you know nothing about me or rags.

We're not - he's being a prat.

The only person who insulted me was Thor....and he knows it. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Syl on Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:53 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

More fool her. Laughing

So you are slagging her off now?

At least I tell Syl to her face what I mean but still respect her

She respects my passions

Tell her how you feel Rags


I respect your passion, I certainly don't respect the way you often resort to toddler mode if someone disagrees with your viewpoint.

The insults aren't nice, and they say more about you than anyone else, you really should rein it in a bit when you feel so antagonised.......for your own sake.




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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Syl on Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:55 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

You don't chuck water over an electrical fire.

Generally speaking, yes, you are right... you shouldnt throw water over a fuseboard... but if this fridge had blown up and was on fire then it would have most likely tripped out the breaker and/or the plug fuse so would almost certainly be electrically dead...


I would have no idea how to put a fire like this out, they seem to take hold very quickly.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:22 am

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:

So you are slagging her off now?

At least I tell Syl to her face what I mean but still respect her

She respects my passions

Tell her how you feel Rags


I respect your passion, I certainly don't respect the way you often resort to toddler mode if someone disagrees with your viewpoint.

The insults aren't nice, and they say more about you than anyone else, you really should rein it in a bit when you feel so antagonised.......for your own sake.




Funny how you ignore everyone else in toddler mode including yourself, as you did today when you went off at wolf. I guess its okay when you do. So how about you stop being so hateful eh and that you rein it in a bit?
Start leading by example

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:23 am

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

We're not - he's being a prat.

The only person who insulted me was Thor....and he knows it. Rolling Eyes

But its okay when you insult people? Or how you ignore when others insult
You show the worst double standards

Grow up

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Syl on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:29 am

Thorin wrote:
Syl wrote:

I respect your passion, I certainly don't respect the way you often resort to toddler mode if someone disagrees with your viewpoint.

The insults aren't nice, and they say more about you than anyone else, you really should rein it in a bit when you feel so antagonised.......for your own sake.




Funny how you ignore everyone else in toddler mode including yourself, as you did today when you went off at wolf. I guess its okay when you do. So how about you stop being so hateful eh and that you rein it in a bit?
Start leading by example

You are joking surely.

I retaliated when Wolf blatantly lied about me, as he so often does. I pointed out he is a troll, which he is.
Compare that to the insults you have bandied about in this thread alone, there is no comparison.

I don't swear at you, if you can't show me the same courtesy I will simply ignore you in future.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:33 am

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Funny how you ignore everyone else in toddler mode including yourself, as you did today when you went off at wolf. I guess its okay when you do. So how about you stop being so hateful eh and that you rein it in a bit?
Start leading by example

You are joking surely.

I retaliated when Wolf blatantly lied about me, as he so often does. I pointed out he is a troll, which he is.
Compare that to the insults you have bandied about in this thread alone, there is no comparison.

I don't swear at you, if you can't show me the same courtesy I will simply ignore you in future.

So what you are saying is that its okay when you insult if you perceive to feel aggrieved and you now continue to insult him

Grow the fuck up, because you are now acting like a child

You dont deserve respect when you show this amount of hypocrisy

Or ignore when others insult, how you also make excuses

So ignore me, I could care less, but it proves you shows the worst double standards.

You insult posters, then expect they will not insult you and even now you are doing this

Grow up

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Syl on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:35 am

Thorin wrote:
Syl wrote:

You are joking surely.

I retaliated when Wolf blatantly lied about me, as he so often does. I pointed out he is a troll, which he is.
Compare that to the insults you have bandied about in this thread alone, there is no comparison.

I don't swear at you, if you can't show me the same courtesy I will simply ignore you in future.

So what you are saying is that its okay when you insult if you perceive to feel aggrieved and you now continue to insult him

Grow the fuck up, because you are now acting like a child

You dont deserve respect when you show this amount of hypocrisy

Or ignore when others insult, how you also make excuses

So ignore me, I could care less, but it proves you shows the worst double standards.

You insult posters, then expect they will insult you and even now you are doing this

Grow up

Whatever.
Night.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:47 am

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:

So what you are saying is that its okay when you insult if you perceive to feel aggrieved and you now continue to insult him

Grow the fuck up, because you are now acting like a child

You dont deserve respect when you show this amount of hypocrisy

Or ignore when others insult, how you also make excuses

So ignore me, I could care less, but it proves you shows the worst double standards.

You insult posters, then expect they will insult you and even now you are doing this

Grow up

Whatever.
Night.

But at least unlike you, when I say if he does something wrong, he stops. He rarely argues and moves on. You though try to defend your hate. That is why he is a better person than you at times. He knows when he is in the wrong as I do when wrong. You though excuse yourself every time. Now he is very intelligent if you gave him the time of day, you would see he is very intelligent.

I jumped on him here as i did to you. But it was only you that took offense to me taking you both to task. If you think swearing is bad and want an apology. Then apologize to him and then I will happily apologize. I would easily apologize to you now, but you need to grow up and learn when in the wrong

Go figure

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Miffs2 on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:56 am

Sigh
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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:59 am

Miffs2 wrote:Sigh

Ah the old sassy padawan steps in for her pennies worth. Laughing

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:41 am

Syl wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Generally speaking, yes, you are right... you shouldnt throw water over a fuseboard... but if this fridge had blown up and was on fire then it would have most likely tripped out the breaker and/or the plug fuse so would almost certainly be electrically dead...


I would have no idea how to put a fire like this out, they seem to take hold very quickly.


But in this incident the man had plenty of time to instead go and pack a suitcase or two and then go knocking on neighbours doors before the fire had even then still not got big enough for anyone else to have noticed any flames/smoke/smell etc...!?

Because it was said that it was a neighbour who first raised the 999 alarm call, and this was after the man had knocked on their door with his suitcases in hand!

So the fire must have been very small indeed when man first knew about it... and would have been very easy for man to have put the fire out there and then...!!!


Given that even a small fire of burning plastic (fridge) in the kitchen would have been giving off a lot of smoke and smell from the point of when it first started... but nobody else in or around the block smelled burning or saw smoke billowing out of window etc...?

This fire had supposedly been going on for so long and got so out of control by the time man had discovered it that it was beyond his ability to have put it out had he tried...?

But still nobody else had noticed smoke or burning smell by this point...?

And then, as the man decides the fire is too dangerously out of control to try to tackle, but get away instead... he then spends a bit of time packing suitcases!!!???

In a flat with a danerously out of control raging fire going on in kitchen...???

And still nobody else in or around block noticed smoke billowing out window or into communal areas or smell of burning...?

Or noticed flat heat/smoke detectors that would have been going off for some time by this point???


Doesnt add up at all to me!!!


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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:59 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Syl wrote:

I would have no idea how to put a fire like this out, they seem to take hold very quickly.


But in this incident the man had plenty of time to instead go and pack a suitcase or two and then go knocking on neighbours doors before the fire had even then still not got big enough for anyone else to have noticed any flames/smoke/smell etc...!?

Because it was said that it was a neighbour who first raised the 999 alarm call, and this was after the man had knocked on their door with his suitcases in hand!

So the fire must have been very small indeed when man first knew about it... and would have been very easy for man to have put the fire out there and then...!!!
Thorin wrote:Based on what reports? Again the Fire brigade were able to put out the fire and were leaving when the outiside cladding ignited. So what relevance is it here on whether he left the building? At this point the fire in the flat was under contro.


Given that even a small fire of burning plastic (fridge) in the kitchen would have been giving off a lot of smoke and smell from the point of when it first started... but nobody else in or around the block smelled burning or saw smoke billowing out of window etc...?
Thorin wrote:Where is there evidence for your above claims? At this point the Firer brigade were on the scene and even if smoke had risen up, clearly people knew that the Fire brigade was in attendance and had been advised to stay in their flats. So what relevance does your above claims matter?


This fire had supposedly been going on for so long and got so out of control by the time man had discovered it that it was beyond his ability to have put it out had he tried...?
Thorin wrote:Really? Where is the evidence for that? Again they put out the fire in the flat and it was as they were leaving that the fire was found to have ignited on the outside cladding which quickly spread. Again I have posted the links to this and you seem to be inventing things that did not happen or were stated by witnesses


But still nobody else had noticed smoke or burning smell by this point...?
Thorin wrote:Really? Again based on what evidence and what relevance when the fire brigade were in attendance?

And then, as the man decides the fire is too dangerously out of control to try to tackle, but get away instead... he then spends a bit of time packing suitcases!!!???
Thorin wrote:Basic Fire training tells people to not tackle fires, but to evacuate. Maybe you can show me any fire training that tells you to tackle them


In a flat with a danerously out of control raging fire going on in kitchen...???
Thorin wrote:The Fire brigade again put out the fire in his flat


And still nobody else in or around block noticed smoke billowing out window or into communal areas or smell of burning...?
Thorin wrote:Yes they did and many called 999 and were advised to stay put which cost many people their lives, which is standard procedures, refer to page one

Or noticed flat heat/smoke detectors that would have been going off for some time by this point???


Doesnt add up at all to me!!!


The only thing that does not add up is your invented claims

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:00 am

Thorin wrote:

He did raise the alarm and the Fire brigade brought under control the fire in his flat, read my previous link tha he did warn people.

The devastated mini-cab driver whose faulty fridge allegedly started the Grenfell Tower fire is said to still be ‘in shock’. Behailu Kebede raised the alarm by knocking on neighbours doors shortly after the flames took hold in his flat on the fourth floor.

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/15/devastated-cab-driver-whose-faulty-fridge-started-grenfell-tower-fire-is-in-shock-6711743/#ixzz4kv3ivp78

Remember many people phoned the emergency services who advised them through emergency procedures to remain in their apartments and place towels up against their doors, until the emergency services arrived. Many of those who did so, were the majority of the victims of this fire.

2. Some residents started to evacuate through the central fire escape stairwell – the only escape route. But others were told by emergency services over the phone to put towels around doors and stay put until help arrived. This advice has been known to work in buildings that are well compartmentalised, preventing the rapid spread of the fire from floor to floor. At Grenfell Tower, many who received this advice are likely to have died. Some who remained in their flats spoke to friends and family on the phone – the last time many were heard from.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-how-fire-spread-graphic-a7792661.html



The Fire brigade were leaving when it ignited again


Firefighters had put out the initial fridge fire at Grenfell Tower and were leaving the building when the blaze suddenly flared up, it has emerged. Crews believed they had put out the fire at the London high-rise and were astonished to see flames rising up the side of the building, new reports have claimed. Shortly after dealing with the fridge fire early last Wednesday, firefighters were telling residents that it was out, BBC Panorama reported.

But, soon after, the 24-storey building was consumed by flames in one of Britain's biggest ever tower block fires that left at least 79 people dead. Panorama on Monday night reported that firefighters had seen flames "shooting up" the side of the building. Those reports will add weight to claims that it was the cladding on the exterior of Grenfell Tower that caused the fire to spread so rapidly.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/20/grenfell-tower-firefighters-put-fridge-blaze-just-leaving-flats/


For Tommy to read

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:31 am

Really...?


From the independent link you posted...

1. Witnesses have reported that a resident on the fourth floor discovered his fridge had “exploded” and caught fire. He alerted a neighbour. At 00:54, emergency services received the first of many calls reporting the blaze. Firefighters reportedly arrived within six minutes, by which point the fire had already spread through the kitchen window to the external cladding.

4. A man on the 17th floor, who left his flat at 1.15am, said the fire had reached his window by the time he got out of the building. A witness heard a neighbour screaming for help before apparently jumping out as flames engulfed his 17th-floor flat. People on the top floors were seen flashing torches to attract attention, unable to get out. 



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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:59 am

12:50am and fridge explodes in flat 16
The fate of the 600 residents of Grenfell Tower was sealed shortly before 12.50am, when the fridge in Flat 16 on the fourth floor apparently exploded into flames.
Neighbour Maryam Adam, 41, who is pregnant, said: 'He [her neighbour] knocked on the door, and he said there was a fire in his flat. It was exactly 12.50am because I was sleeping and it woke me up.
'When we got up, I saw outside his flat his luggage – there was a big bag with his clothes.
'That means he took the stuff from his flat, and then he told the neighbours.
'The fire was small in the kitchen. I could see it because the flat door was open. There was no alarm.'
At 12.54am, the fire brigade was called, and the first engines arrived within six minutes. But witnesses said that the speed at which the fire tore up the tower was incredible – like 'a tissue being set alight'.
Samira Lamrini said: 'The man whose flat it was came out and said it was his flat. He was a slim, tall, white British man.
'He was pointing at the fire on a lower floor and said, 'That's my flat, that's it'. He said it was his fridge that had exploded.
'He started filming it on his phone. He was upset but I don't think he had a clue about the scale of what was happening.
'After that the fire went up in minutes, it was so fast. The speed with which it took hold was terrifying. It was like a tissue being set alight. It just went whoosh, so quickly. I didn't see him after that.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4605324/How-Grenfell-Tower-fire-unfolded-15-minutes.html#ixzz4kym8r2UQ

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:08 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Really...?


From the independent link you posted...

1. Witnesses have reported that a resident on the fourth floor discovered his fridge had “exploded” and caught fire. He alerted a neighbour. At 00:54, emergency services received the first of many calls reporting the blaze. Firefighters reportedly arrived within six minutes, by which point the fire had already spread through the kitchen window to the external cladding.

4. A man on the 17th floor, who left his flat at 1.15am, said the fire had reached his window by the time he got out of the building. A witness heard a neighbour screaming for help before apparently jumping out as flames engulfed his 17th-floor flat. People on the top floors were seen flashing torches to attract attention, unable to get out. 



That was from the 15th, as was your daily mail article

This 5 days after when more knowledge is known

Firefighters had put out the initial fridge fire at Grenfell Tower and were leaving the building when the blaze suddenly flared up, it has emerged. Crews believed they had put out the fire at the London high-rise and were astonished to see flames rising up the side of the building, new reports have claimed. Shortly after dealing with the fridge fire early last Wednesday, firefighters were telling residents that it was out, BBC Panorama reported.

But, soon after, the 24-storey building was consumed by flames in one of Britain's biggest ever tower block fires that left at least 79 people dead. Panorama on Monday night reported that firefighters had seen flames "shooting up" the side of the building. Those reports will add weight to claims that it was the cladding on the exterior of Grenfell Tower that caused the fire to spread so rapidly.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/20/grenfell-tower-firefighters-put-fridge-blaze-just-leaving-flats/

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Original Quill on Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:10 am

Tommy Monk wrote:'That means he took the stuff from his flat, and then he told the neighbours.

Are you sure it wasn't pre-packed, like he was going somewhere?

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:04 am

Idea

Boris Johnson and St. Theresa have the blood of hundreds of dead Brit's on their hands...

And yet the British public still allows them to roam free..

Those two no-hopers should be rotting in a jail cell  !

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What is it with Tommy Monk and a couple of his kindred Floptards on here, that they would even try to deflect blame away  from those whose bad decisions have actually led to these recent tragedies --  the politicians, local councils, council inspectors, greedy landlords, shonky contractors, lazy bureaucrats, and anyone else sharing that responsibilty  ???  

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Syl on Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:45 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Syl wrote:

I would have no idea how to put a fire like this out, they seem to take hold very quickly.


But in this incident the man had plenty of time to instead go and pack a suitcase or two and then go knocking on neighbours doors before the fire had even then still not got big enough for anyone else to have noticed any flames/smoke/smell etc...!?

Because it was said that it was a neighbour who first raised the 999 alarm call, and this was after the man had knocked on their door with his suitcases in hand!

So the fire must have been very small indeed when man first knew about it... and would have been very easy for man to have put the fire out there and then...!!!


Given that even a small fire of burning plastic (fridge) in the kitchen would have been giving off a lot of smoke and smell from the point of when it first started... but nobody else in or around the block smelled burning or saw smoke billowing out of window etc...?

This fire had supposedly been going on for so long and got so out of control by the time man had discovered it that it was beyond his ability to have put it out had he tried...?

But still nobody else had noticed smoke or burning smell by this point...?

And then, as the man decides the fire is too dangerously out of control to try to tackle, but get away instead... he then spends a bit of time packing suitcases!!!???

In a flat with a danerously out of control raging fire going on in kitchen...???

And still nobody else in or around block noticed smoke billowing out window or into communal areas or smell of burning...?

Or noticed flat heat/smoke detectors that would have been going off for some time by this point???


Doesnt add up at all to me!!!


Reading about the Hotpoint fridge/freezers, its pretty clear that once one sets alight the flames can soon engulf an entire kitchen. I don't know why the man had packed his cases ready to get out before he warned neighbours, no one does....but the police have stated that the fire was an accident and not started intentionally, so that's what we have to go off.
Whether the man could have put the fire out himself is not clear. It was night, maybe he was asleep and woke up when the fire was too big for him to cope with, plus, there were no fire extinguishers in the flats.


Last edited by Syl on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:10 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Idea

Boris Johnson and St. Theresa have the blood of hundreds of dead Brit's on their hands...

And yet the British public still allows them to roam free..

Those two no-hopers should be rotting in a jail cell  !

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What is it with Tommy Monk and a couple of his kindred Floptards on here, that they would even try to deflect blame away  from those whose bad decisions have actually led to these recent tragedies --  the politicians, local councils, council inspectors, greedy landlords, shonky contractors, lazy bureaucrats, and anyone else sharing that responsibilty  ???  

Arrow

The problem appears to be the cladding, for which Boris Johnson or Theresa May are not responsible. It's absolutely shocking how quickly that fire spread, despite the presence of firefighters. The important thing now is to get rid of that cladding on other buildings - now, before there's another tragedy.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Syl on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:15 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Idea

Boris Johnson and St. Theresa have the blood of hundreds of dead Brit's on their hands...

And yet the British public still allows them to roam free..

Those two no-hopers should be rotting in a jail cell  !

********************************************

What is it with Tommy Monk and a couple of his kindred Floptards on here, that they would even try to deflect blame away  from those whose bad decisions have actually led to these recent tragedies --  the politicians, local councils, council inspectors, greedy landlords, shonky contractors, lazy bureaucrats, and anyone else sharing that responsibilty  ???  

Arrow

The problem appears to be the cladding, for which Boris Johnson or Theresa May are not responsible. It's absolutely shocking how quickly that fire spread, despite the presence of firefighters. The important thing now is to get rid of that cladding on other buildings - now, before there's another tragedy.

Rags, did you say you had a Hotpoint fridge freezer?
You can check the serial numbers of the ones deemed to be risky  if you are concerned yours may not be safe.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/23/how-to-check-if-your-hotpoint-fridge-freezer-is-affected-following-grenfell-tower-fire-6729910/


Last edited by Syl on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:17 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

The problem appears to be the cladding, for which Boris Johnson or Theresa May are not responsible. It's absolutely shocking how quickly that fire spread, despite the presence of firefighters. The important thing now is to get rid of that cladding on other buildings - now, before there's another tragedy.

Rags, did you say you had a Hotpoint fridge freezer?
You can check the serial numbers of the ones deemed to be risky  if you are concerned yours may not be safe.

Yes I have Syl. I've had it for about 19 years though, but I will check it. Ta for that.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:18 pm

I do clear out the bottom of the fridge/freezer and make sure there's no fluff or cat fur in there.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Syl on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:19 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I do clear out the bottom of the fridge/freezer and make sure there's no fluff or cat fur in there.

I edited and put a link.
I clean mine about as often as I clean my oven....not that often really. silent

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:24 pm

Thanks Syl. I checked the model number and it's not that one - it's too old anyway!

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Syl on Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:46 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Thanks Syl. I checked the model number and it's not that one - it's too old anyway!

That's a relief anyway....we checked all ours, I hope others do the same. x

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:08 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:12:50am and fridge explodes in flat 16
The fate of the 600 residents of Grenfell Tower was sealed shortly before 12.50am, when the fridge in Flat 16 on the fourth floor apparently exploded into flames.
Neighbour Maryam Adam, 41, who is pregnant, said: 'He [her neighbour] knocked on the door, and he said there was a fire in his flat. It was exactly 12.50am because I was sleeping and it woke me up.
'When we got up, I saw outside his flat his luggage – there was a big bag with his clothes.
'That means he took the stuff from his flat, and then he told the neighbours.

'The fire was small in the kitchen. I could see it because the flat door was open. There was no alarm.'


At 12.54am, the fire brigade was called, and the first engines arrived within six minutes. But witnesses said that the speed at which the fire tore up the tower was incredible – like 'a tissue being set alight'.
Samira Lamrini said: 'The man whose flat it was came out and said it was his flat. He was a slim, tall, white British man.
'He was pointing at the fire on a lower floor and said, 'That's my flat, that's it'. He said it was his fridge that had exploded.
'He started filming it on his phone. He was upset but I don't think he had a clue about the scale of what was happening.
'After that the fire went up in minutes, it was so fast. The speed with which it took hold was terrifying. It was like a tissue being set alight. It just went whoosh, so quickly. I didn't see him after that.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4605324/How-Grenfell-Tower-fire-unfolded-15-minutes.html#ixzz4kym8r2UQ


He could have and should have put fire out when he first discovered it...


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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:12:50am and fridge explodes in flat 16
The fate of the 600 residents of Grenfell Tower was sealed shortly before 12.50am, when the fridge in Flat 16 on the fourth floor apparently exploded into flames.
Neighbour Maryam Adam, 41, who is pregnant, said: 'He [her neighbour] knocked on the door, and he said there was a fire in his flat. It was exactly 12.50am because I was sleeping and it woke me up.
'When we got up, I saw outside his flat his luggage – there was a big bag with his clothes.
'That means he took the stuff from his flat, and then he told the neighbours.

'The fire was small in the kitchen. I could see it because the flat door was open. There was no alarm.'


At 12.54am, the fire brigade was called, and the first engines arrived within six minutes. But witnesses said that the speed at which the fire tore up the tower was incredible – like 'a tissue being set alight'.
Samira Lamrini said: 'The man whose flat it was came out and said it was his flat. He was a slim, tall, white British man.
'He was pointing at the fire on a lower floor and said, 'That's my flat, that's it'. He said it was his fridge that had exploded.
'He started filming it on his phone. He was upset but I don't think he had a clue about the scale of what was happening.
'After that the fire went up in minutes, it was so fast. The speed with which it took hold was terrifying. It was like a tissue being set alight. It just went whoosh, so quickly. I didn't see him after that.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4605324/How-Grenfell-Tower-fire-unfolded-15-minutes.html#ixzz4kym8r2UQ


He could have and should have put fire out when he first discovered it...



Which is nonsense. You should only tackle a fire if you know what you are doing. In other words having basic fire training. There is no evidence of Fire Extinguishers and you never use water on an electrical fire. He did what is the right thing to do, evacuate and await for the emergency services after someone called 999. So to say he should of put this out is wrong on every level.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:26 pm

A Mail Online article about a man whose faulty fridge allegedly started the Grenfell Tower fire has prompted about 1,300 complaints to the press watchdog.

The Mail Online article, which has allegedly been toned down overnight, focuses on the actions and behaviour of Behailu Kebede, whose fourth floor flat is thought to be where the blaze started.

The Independent Press Standards Organisation has received around 1,300 complaints, a number expected to climb, with the overwhelming majority relating to privacy and harassment clauses in the editors’ code. A number of complaints focus on intrusion into grief and shock.

A spokesman for Mail Online said the article was not out to blame Kebede and that its coverage was in line with that of other media including tabloids such as The Sun.

“In common with several other media outlets MailOnline identified where and how the Grenfell Tower fire started,” said the spokesman. “It attached no blame whatsoever to the occupant of that flat and in fact details how he raised the alarm and alerted his neighbours personally. It didn’t seem to us that naming the resident would be seen as blaming him since we did not see how any reasonable person could possibly hold him responsible.”

The article ranks among the top five most complained-about to Ipso.

The most complained-about article remains the Sun’s front page claim that one in five British Muslims supported people who have gone to Syria to fight for jihadi groups such as Islamic State. Ipso ruled that the article, which attracted about 3,000 complaints, was significantly misleading.

Ipso will assess the complaints and the Mail Online article to decide whether to launch a full investigation into a potential breach of the editors’ code.

“For the record MailOnline believes that, while much is still unclear, the blame for this tragedy lies squarely with those responsible for managing and renovating the tower and the authorities in charge of the policies and safety regulations within which they were operating,” said the Mail Online spokesman. “This has been and remains the focus of MailOnline’s extensive coverage from the outset.”

The Mail Online said that the article had not been toned down in any way since its original publication.


https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jun/16/mail-online-story-about-alleged-cause-of-grenfell-fire-prompts-more-than-1100-complaints

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Original Quill on Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:25 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:12:50am and fridge explodes in flat 16
The fate of the 600 residents of Grenfell Tower was sealed shortly before 12.50am, when the fridge in Flat 16 on the fourth floor apparently exploded into flames.
Neighbour Maryam Adam, 41, who is pregnant, said: 'He [her neighbour] knocked on the door, and he said there was a fire in his flat. It was exactly 12.50am because I was sleeping and it woke me up.
'When we got up, I saw outside his flat his luggage – there was a big bag with his clothes.
'That means he took the stuff from his flat, and then he told the neighbours.

'The fire was small in the kitchen. I could see it because the flat door was open. There was no alarm.'


At 12.54am, the fire brigade was called, and the first engines arrived within six minutes. But witnesses said that the speed at which the fire tore up the tower was incredible – like 'a tissue being set alight'.
Samira Lamrini said: 'The man whose flat it was came out and said it was his flat. He was a slim, tall, white British man.
'He was pointing at the fire on a lower floor and said, 'That's my flat, that's it'. He said it was his fridge that had exploded.
'He started filming it on his phone. He was upset but I don't think he had a clue about the scale of what was happening.
'After that the fire went up in minutes, it was so fast. The speed with which it took hold was terrifying. It was like a tissue being set alight. It just went whoosh, so quickly. I didn't see him after that.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4605324/How-Grenfell-Tower-fire-unfolded-15-minutes.html#ixzz4kym8r2UQ

He could have and should have put fire out when he first discovered it...

How?

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:55 pm

I don't think he could have put the fire out. I hope he made sure someone called 999. Perhaps he couldn't use his phone.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Syl on Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:01 pm

I would have no idea how to put a fridge fire out if it had taken hold.
Unless a person had a fire extinguisher to hand I think most people would feel pretty helpless.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by magica on Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:56 pm

I'm getting one for my kitchen they do those small ones, enough to put out a small fire from cooker etc.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Syl on Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:20 pm

magica wrote:I'm getting one for my kitchen they do those small ones, enough to put out a small fire from cooker etc.

Good idea Mags. I don't think its over reacting to realise that a fire could happen anytime anywhere, especially in light of all the crap we seem to be sold in this country,

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by magica on Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:21 pm

Syl wrote:
magica wrote:I'm getting one for my kitchen they do those small ones, enough to put out a small fire from cooker etc.

Good idea Mags. I don't think its over reacting to realise that a fire could happen anytime anywhere, especially in light of all the crap we seem to be sold in this country,

True Syl.  I have a real fear of fire, and the thought that people burnt to death appalls me.  Its my worst nightmare.


Last edited by magica on Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:26 pm

'The fire was small in the kitchen. I could see it because the flat door was open. There was no alarm.'



So the fire was small at this point... so small that it hadnt set off the heat/smoke detector alarms inside the kitchen and rest of flat...

We all know how sensitive these detectors are and how they go off at the slightest bit of burnt toast...

The neighbour said she could see into kitchen and fire was small...

Wetting a couple of towels/sheets or even a couple of cotton shirts or pairs of jeans and throwing them over fire would have put them out...

Also the fridge fault and fire would have tripped out the kitchen sockets circuit so water would have been safe to use... or if not sure then he could have switched off all of flat electricity by flicking main switch off at fuseboard and then used water...


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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:28 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:'The fire was small in the kitchen. I could see it because the flat door was open. There was no alarm.'



So the fire was small at this point... so small that it hadnt set off the heat/smoke detector alarms inside the kitchen and rest of flat...

We all know how sensitive these detectors are and how they go off at the slightest bit of burnt toast...

The neighbour said she could see into kitchen and fire was small...

Wetting a couple of towels/sheets or even a couple of cotton shirts or pairs of jeans and throwing them over fire would have put them out...

Also the fridge fault and fire would have tripped out the kitchen sockets circuit so water would have been safe to use... or if not sure then he could have switched off all of flat electricity by flicking main switch off at fuseboard and then used water...



You cannot expect people to tackle a fire if they do not know how to and any fire safety advice would not advise someone to do so if they have no training.
It seems to me you are looking to blame this individual when again as seen the Fire brigade had put out the fire in his flat. The problem is with the cladding and there was no fire detectors either.
You then make even more outlandish claims, based on the electricity. Where is the evidence for that?

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Syl on Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:36 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:'The fire was small in the kitchen. I could see it because the flat door was open. There was no alarm.'



So the fire was small at this point... so small that it hadnt set off the heat/smoke detector alarms inside the kitchen and rest of flat...

We all know how sensitive these detectors are and how they go off at the slightest bit of burnt toast...

The neighbour said she could see into kitchen and fire was small...

Wetting a couple of towels/sheets or even a couple of cotton shirts or pairs of jeans and throwing them over fire would have put them out...

Also the fridge fault and fire would have tripped out the kitchen sockets circuit so water would have been safe to use... or if not sure then he could have switched off all of flat electricity by flicking main switch off at fuseboard and then used water...


Is it possible if the fire had tripped the electrical circuit he wouldn't have been able to see because it was so dark?
I wouldn't know whether water was safe to use or not if it was an electrical fire.

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:59 pm

All council flats are fitted with heat/smoke detectors... one in kitchen and one in hallway... connected so that both will go off when either detects a fire... also they are powered from the mains... the eye witness neighbour said the mans flat door was open and that she could see into kitchen and that there was only a small fire, PLUS THE SMOKE ALARMS WERE NOT GOING OFF!


Also it is advised that if you do discover a small fire, that you should attempt to put it out yourself... and smothering it with a towel (preferably wet/damp but dry would do) is one of the main recommended methods if there is no suitable fire extinguiser available... plus this is both common sense as well as common knowledge...!


Now... what exactly do you mean by 'outlandish claims on electricity'...!?



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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:26 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:All council flats are fitted with heat/smoke detectors... one in kitchen and one in hallway... connected so that both will go off when either detects a fire... also they are powered from the mains... the eye witness neighbour said the mans flat door was open and that she could see into kitchen and that there was only a small fire, PLUS THE SMOKE ALARMS WERE NOT GOING OFF!
Thorin wrote:Hearsay. Show that this was fitted with smoke detectors. Witnesses say they were not


Also it is advised that if you do discover a small fire, that you should attempt to put it out yourself... and smothering it with a towel (preferably wet/damp but dry would do) is one of the main recommended methods if there is no suitable fire extinguiser available... plus this is both common sense as well as common knowledge...!
Thorin wrote:Really show me where it states people should tackle fires in not trained in basic fire training?
You are just making up a load of rubbish


Now... what exactly do you mean by 'outlandish claims on electricity'...!?



Show me the evidence that during the fridge fire in had short circuited the power to the electricity within the flat or that he could tackle he fire with water?

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Re: Grenfell Tower Investigators To Consider Manslaughter Charges

Post by nicko on Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:29 pm

Smother with a DRY towel, surely not Tommy?
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