Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

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Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:48 am

[*]The mother strongly opposes the idea that the twins be brought up by the family 
[*]It would breach mother's human rights to the grandparents of their existence
[*]Mr Justice Cobb said he was concerned with how slowly the case came to court 
[*]But he added it was 'reassuring' to see the number of potential adoptive couples


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4623302/Grandparents-never-told-daughter-twins.html#ixzz4kc4RLtD3 

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Syl on Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:41 am

Well she will never be a contender for mother of the year that's for sure. Rolling Eyes

The man who she says is the father would have to get a DNA test if ordered to by the courts.....he sounds about as irresponsible as she does.

However, as she has no intention of bringing up her own children, I do think she is morally entitled to stipulate that she wants her parents to have nothing to do with the twins, she may have good reason to not want them anywhere near them.

Hopefully they will go to a couple who will genuinely want and love them.....which is more than they have had so far in their young lives.

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by magica on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:18 pm

Personally I think the grandparents should be told, they're their grandchildren.

The mother is waste of space, and I too hope they get the love from their adoptive parents which was so lacking from their so called mum.

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Syl on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:25 pm

magica wrote:Personally I think the grandparents should be told, they're  their grandchildren.

The mother is waste of space, and I too hope they get the love from their adoptive parents which was so lacking from their so called mum.

But maybe her parents abused her when she was a child, there could be valid reasons why she doesn't want them to know.

In any case, when the babies are adopted they (the grandparents) wouldn't be in contact with the twins anyway.

I agree she...and also the sperm donor, ie the one night stand... is a waste of space.

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:37 pm

If someone forfeits being a child's parents, what right have they to decide who shall raise that child? They are abandoning that child and thus really cannot say what is in the best interest for the child. Many people fall out with their family and may despise them whilst. That does not mean they are not good parents, but with her then abandoning this child, is to me the worst form of selfishness.

If the rest of her family have raised children well, then they should be given a choice to decide. The judge is not thinking of the child her but the wishes of someone who is abandoning that child. That makes no sense at all.

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Syl on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:44 pm

Thorin wrote:If someone forfeits being a child's parents, what right have they to decide who shall raise that child? They are abandoning that child and thus really cannot say what is in the best interest for the child. Many people fall out with their family and may despise them whilst. That does not mean they are not good parents, but with her then abandoning this child, is to me the worst form of selfishness.

If the rest of her family have raised children well, then they should be given a choice to decide. The judge is not thinking of the child her but the wishes of someone who is abandoning that child. That makes no sense at all.

Well they haven't raised her very well have they Thor?
Apart from the twins she has abandoned the one she kept has had to have social workers involved with his upbringing.
She actually sounds like a good case for forcible sterilisation.....sadly that's not in keeping with her human rights though....she is now free to breed randomly again if she chooses.

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:47 pm

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:If someone forfeits being a child's parents, what right have they to decide who shall raise that child? They are abandoning that child and thus really cannot say what is in the best interest for the child. Many people fall out with their family and may despise them whilst. That does not mean they are not good parents, but with her then abandoning this child, is to me the worst form of selfishness.

If the rest of her family have raised children well, then they should be given a choice to decide. The judge is not thinking of the child her but the wishes of someone who is abandoning that child. That makes no sense at all.

Well they haven't raised her very well have they Thor?
Apart from the twins she has abandoned the one she kept has had to have social workers involved with his upbringing.
She actually sounds like a good case for forcible sterilisation.....sadly that's not in keeping with her human rights though....she is now free to breed randomly again if she chooses.


Have they not raised her well?

All you are doing is taking her version of this, when are the other family members estranged from each other?
Or is it just this one person.
So again what right does she have to decide, when she is not going to raise this child?
She has forfeited that right, by abandoning that child.
The judge is not thinking of the child, but of the mother herself, who now wishes to abandon this child.
That makes next to no sense. As he is denying the right to this child's real family blood ties or for them to ever know the twins exist


Last edited by Thorin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:49 pm

Could be the girl had a shit upbringing by her parents and wouldn't wish it on those kids. I don't agree with adoption, but who knows what the circumstances are.
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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:51 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:Could be the girl had a shit upbringing by her parents and wouldn't wish it on those kids.   I don't agree with adoption, but who knows what the circumstances are.


Who does know?
Is the mother the best character witness here though?

Anyway, catch you later

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Syl on Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:10 pm

Thorin wrote:
Syl wrote:

Well they haven't raised her very well have they Thor?
Apart from the twins she has abandoned the one she kept has had to have social workers involved with his upbringing.
She actually sounds like a good case for forcible sterilisation.....sadly that's not in keeping with her human rights though....she is now free to breed randomly again if she chooses.


Have they not raised her well?

All you are doing is taking her version of this, when are the other family members estranged from each other?
Or is it just this one person.
So again what right does she have to decide, when she is not going to raise this child?
She has forfeited that right, by abandoning that child.
The judge is not thinking of the child, but of the mother herself, who now wishes to abandon this child.
That makes next to no sense. As he is denying the right to this child's real family blood ties or for them to ever know the twins exist

Well she is certainly not a responsible and loving mother, and kids learn from example.


Presumably the people in charge here have listened to the reasons she has given for not wanting her family involved.....we are just guessing.

Off out. bbl. x

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by eddie on Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:59 pm

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:If someone forfeits being a child's parents, what right have they to decide who shall raise that child? They are abandoning that child and thus really cannot say what is in the best interest for the child. Many people fall out with their family and may despise them whilst. That does not mean they are not good parents, but with her then abandoning this child, is to me the worst form of selfishness.

If the rest of her family have raised children well, then they should be given a choice to decide. The judge is not thinking of the child her but the wishes of someone who is abandoning that child. That makes no sense at all.

Well they haven't raised her very well have they Thor?
Apart from the twins she has abandoned the one she kept has had to have social workers involved with his upbringing.
She actually sounds like a good case for forcible sterilisation.....sadly that's not in keeping with her human rights though....she is now free to breed randomly again if she chooses.

Nobody has stated the obvious here either: perhaps she doesn't want her parents seeing the twins because she wants a clean break? Why would she give them away and then get second-hand information from her parents or still have the children on the outskirts of her life?

Grandparents don't get a right to stop you terminating a child so what's the difference?

I don't like the sound of her but they're her children and unfortunately, it's really got nothing to do with the grandparents or any other family member.

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:05 pm

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Have they not raised her well?

All you are doing is taking her version of this, when are the other family members estranged from each other?
Or is it just this one person.
So again what right does she have to decide, when she is not going to raise this child?
She has forfeited that right, by abandoning that child.
The judge is not thinking of the child, but of the mother herself, who now wishes to abandon this child.
That makes next to no sense. As he is denying the right to this child's real family blood ties or for them to ever know the twins exist

Well she is certainly not a responsible and loving mother, and kids learn from example.


Presumably the people in charge here have listened to the reasons she has given for not wanting her family involved.....we are just guessing.

Off out. bbl. x

As I say, I think its a cheek to say who can or cannot be a part of their life, when she is giving them up. Its not just the grandparents here but all her blood relatives they may never know. She is making a decision for them, which they have no choice over. Whether she has not had the best upbringing, does not mean other members of the family should not have a choice to raise them. It just seems vindictive on her part to be honest.

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:13 pm

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Have they not raised her well?

All you are doing is taking her version of this, when are the other family members estranged from each other?
Or is it just this one person.
So again what right does she have to decide, when she is not going to raise this child?
She has forfeited that right, by abandoning that child.
The judge is not thinking of the child, but of the mother herself, who now wishes to abandon this child.
That makes next to no sense. As he is denying the right to this child's real family blood ties or for them to ever know the twins exist

Well she is certainly not a responsible and loving mother, and kids learn from example.


Presumably the people in charge here have listened to the reasons she has given for not wanting her family involved.....we are just guessing.

Off out. bbl. x

Perhaps she thinks her kids would actually be better off with two parents who could give them all the things she can't?
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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by HoratioTarr on Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:30 pm

There's been several 'celebrities' who have given up or left their kids to pursue a career. Roseanne Barr, Vivien Leigh, Joni Mitchell, Patti Smith, Rod Stewart, Kate Mulgrew, Brigitte Neilsen. I'm sure there's more.
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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Syl on Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:21 pm

This woman is in her 40's...so obviously her parents will be getting on.
Bringing up a baby is hard work, bringing up two is double the work, so I very much doubt her parents would be considered suitable for adopting them even if this woman was agreeable to them knowing they are now grandparents..


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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:32 pm

Syl wrote:This woman is in her 40's...so obviously her parents will be getting on.
Bringing up a baby is  hard work, bringing up two is double the work, so I very much doubt her parents would be considered suitable for adopting them even if this woman was agreeable to them knowing they are now grandparents..



Why do people keep centring on her parents, as if they are the only family members who could adopt?

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Syl on Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:59 pm

Thorin wrote:
Syl wrote:This woman is in her 40's...so obviously her parents will be getting on.
Bringing up a baby is  hard work, bringing up two is double the work, so I very much doubt her parents would be considered suitable for adopting them even if this woman was agreeable to them knowing they are now grandparents..



Why do people keep centring on her parents, as if they are the only family members who could adopt?

We obviously don't know her family history, but if she has cut herself off from her family the chances of any of them even being considered suitable to adopt would be minute.

There is a reason adoptive parents are given privacy from the biological mother.
Choosing to place babies in a home where the biological mother knows the people who have been given parental rights would be asking for trouble.

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:04 pm

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:


Why do people keep centring on her parents, as if they are the only family members who could adopt?

We obviously don't know her family history, but if she has cut herself off from her family the chances of any of them even being considered suitable to adopt would be minute.

There is a reason adoptive parents are given privacy from the biological mother.
Choosing to place babies in a home where the biological mother knows the people who have been given parental rights would be asking for trouble.

Why would they not be suitable?

Why would it be asking for trouble if she is already estranged from her family?

That makes very little sense syl

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Syl on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:08 pm

Thorin wrote:
Syl wrote:

We obviously don't know her family history, but if she has cut herself off from her family the chances of any of them even being considered suitable to adopt would be minute.

There is a reason adoptive parents are given privacy from the biological mother.
Choosing to place babies in a home where the biological mother knows the people who have been given parental rights would be asking for trouble.

Why would they not be suitable?

Why would it be asking for trouble if she is already estranged from her family?

That makes very little sense syl

It makes sense to not place children in a home where there is already personal strife between them and the biological mother.

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Syl on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:09 pm

In any case...where does it say that any of her family even wanted to adopt the babies?...so the argument is pointless scratch

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:11 pm

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Why would they not be suitable?

Why would it be asking for trouble if she is already estranged from her family?

That makes very little sense syl

It makes sense to not place children in a home where there is already personal strife between them and the biological mother.

What personal strife?

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Syl on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:14 pm

Thorin wrote:
Syl wrote:

It makes sense to not place children in a home where there is already personal strife between them and the biological mother.

What personal strife?

Well one doesn't usually become estranged from the family for no reason.

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:15 pm

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:

What personal strife?

Well one doesn't usually become estranged from the family for no reason.

What effect would that have on raising these twins, when she is no longer part her families life?

It would have zero effect

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Syl on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:27 pm

Thorin wrote:
Syl wrote:

Well one doesn't usually become estranged from the family for no reason.

What effect would that have on raising these twins, when she is no longer part her families life?

It would have zero effect

The point is she would know where they were, she could re enter their lives in the future if she chose to, and lets face it she hardly sounds like a reasonable responsible human being.

Parents who give up their kids for adoption don't have the right to know where they go.....she obviously would know wouldn't she.
It would be a disaster.

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:32 pm

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:

What effect would that have on raising these twins, when she is no longer part her families life?

It would have zero effect

The point is she would know where they were, she could re enter their lives in the future if she chose to, and  lets face it she hardly sounds like a reasonable responsible human being.

Parents who give up their kids for adoption don't have the right to know where they go.....she obviously would know wouldn't she.
It would be a disaster.

So?

If she has decided to leave these twins and has stayed estranged from her family, what difference is the future going to make?

None, it then allows for the possible chance that she wants them back and they are back with their biological mother

People do change their minds

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Syl on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:36 pm

Thorin wrote:
Syl wrote:

The point is she would know where they were, she could re enter their lives in the future if she chose to, and  lets face it she hardly sounds like a reasonable responsible human being.

Parents who give up their kids for adoption don't have the right to know where they go.....she obviously would know wouldn't she.
It would be a disaster.

So?

If she has decided to leave these twins and has stayed estranged from her family, what difference is the future going to make?

None, it then allows for the possible chance that she wants them back and they are back with their biological mother

People do change their minds

Once children are adopted the mother is in no position to 'change her mind' and swan back into their lives Thor...you must know that.

I don't think you have thought this through.

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:44 pm

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:

So?

If she has decided to leave these twins and has stayed estranged from her family, what difference is the future going to make?

None, it then allows for the possible chance that she wants them back and they are back with their biological mother

People do change their minds

Once children are adopted the mother is in no position to 'change her mind' and swan back into their lives Thor...you must know that.

I don't think you have thought this through.

It does happen though Syl

Sorry but I do not buy the argument that they cannot go to family when many actually do get adopted through family members.; If she is already estranged, she its hardly going to effect the mother or the children

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Syl on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:48 pm

Thorin wrote:
Syl wrote:

Once children are adopted the mother is in no position to 'change her mind' and swan back into their lives Thor...you must know that.

I don't think you have thought this through.

It does happen though Syl

Sorry but I do not buy the argument that they cannot go to family when many actually do get adopted through family members.; If she is already estranged, she its hardly going to effect the mother or the children

Yes sometimes family members can adopt, though I doubt that would ever be allowed if there was friction like this in a family that could harm the welfare of the children.



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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:52 pm

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:

It does happen though Syl

Sorry but I do not buy the argument that they cannot go to family when many actually do get adopted through family members.; If she is already estranged, she its hardly going to effect the mother or the children

Yes sometimes family members can adopt, though I doubt that would ever be allowed if there was friction like this in a family that could harm the welfare of the children.



Its always difficult Syl and I guess its different every time based on the circumstances

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Syl on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:42 pm

Thorin wrote:
Syl wrote:

Yes sometimes family members can adopt, though I doubt that would ever be allowed if there was friction like this in a family that could harm the welfare of the children.



Its always difficult Syl and I guess its different every time based on the circumstances

Yes, its good that each case is considered on the factors involved.

I find it really touching when I see posters up of kids asking if anyone would be interested in fostering or adopting....its a bit like advertising the child to see if there are any takers.
Babies are easy to place, older kids with a history much harder...its sad.

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Re: Grandparents must never be told their daughter had twins: Judges ruling as mother plans to give babies away

Post by Thorin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:51 pm

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Its always difficult Syl and I guess its different every time based on the circumstances

Yes, its good that each case is considered on the factors involved.

I find it really touching when I see posters up of kids asking if anyone would be interested in fostering or adopting....its a bit like advertising the child to see if there are any takers.
Babies are easy to place, older kids with a history much harder...its sad.

That is the saddest reality with older children

_________________
At this point I do not know what is worse.
A person who is full of envy spreading rumours and lies.
Or the people with not enough education or common sense who believe them.
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Thorin

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