#LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

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#LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Fuzzy Zack on Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:40 pm

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#LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/390818-london-bridge-terrorist-attack/

If you want to stop a fire, stop fuelling it.

Instilling fear in the public and deamonising terrorists, while attacking and funding them at the same time, allows our government to accumulate wealth while getting away with murder, directly and indirectly.
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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Lord Foul on Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:03 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
nicko wrote:Wolfie, the perfect example of someone who is blinded by the truth because of his hatred for those who speak it.

How can you hate people you've never even met?  

ask an islamist

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Syl on Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:33 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:#LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/390818-london-bridge-terrorist-attack/

If you want to stop a fire, stop fuelling it.

Instilling fear in the public and deamonising terrorists, while attacking and funding them at the same time, allows our government to accumulate wealth while getting away with murder, directly and indirectly.

'Demonising' terrorists?  People have been slaughtered here, try showing some  compassion and respect.  


I only have one unfortunately. alien

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Syl on Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:38 pm

Cool
HoratioTarr wrote:
nicko wrote:Wolfie, the perfect example of someone who is blinded by the truth because of his hatred for those who speak it.

How can you hate people you've never even met?  

Obviously some people do hate ...read the accounts of the survivors in this country over the last few weeks.....mindless attacks of hate filled men and women who not only hate the people they don't know, they hate their lifestyles and everything they stand for.

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Fuzzy Zack on Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:39 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:#LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/390818-london-bridge-terrorist-attack/

If you want to stop a fire, stop fuelling it.

Instilling fear in the public and deamonising terrorists, while attacking and funding them at the same time, allows our government to accumulate wealth while getting away with murder, directly and indirectly.

'Demonising' terrorists?  People have been slaughtered here, try showing some  compassion and respect.  


I'd prefer to show a way to stop it entirely, rather than follow your example of fake compassion
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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:42 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

'Demonising' terrorists?  People have been slaughtered here, try showing some  compassion and respect.  


I'd prefer to show a way to stop it entirely, rather than follow your example of fake compassion

Seriously you really are immature at times.

How is she being fake?

Is it you acting stupidly, just because you just received criticism?

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Syl on Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:52 pm

Thorin wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

I'd prefer to show a way to stop it entirely, rather than follow your example of fake compassion

Seriously you really are immature at times.

How is she being fake?

Is it you acting stupidly, just because you just received criticism?

Compassion isn't fake, its real and genuine.

Speaking of Manchester, the city has been in mourning over the last 2 weeks, the atmosphere is just different, and the concert last night (which you posted of in a different thread) is testament to the love, care, empathy and compassion that people who may not be directly involved have shown in abundance.
The amount now raised for the victims in Manchester is over £10.000.000.....which will never ease the grief of those who have lost their loved ones, but in some way it will help ease the practical burden, especially for the 48 people seriously damaged, some who will never work again.


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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:06 pm

Syl wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Seriously you really are immature at times.

How is she being fake?

Is it you acting stupidly, just because you just received criticism?

Compassion isn't fake, its real and genuine.

Speaking of Manchester, the city has been in mourning over the last 2 weeks, the atmosphere is just different, and the concert last night (which you posted of in a  different thread) is testament to the love, care, empathy   and compassion that people who may not be directly involved have shown in abundance.
The amount now raised for the victims in Manchester  is over £10.000.000.....which will never ease the grief of those who have lost their loved ones, but in some way it will help ease the practical burden, especially for the 48 people seriously damaged, some who will never work again.


That concert brought out the best love in people and agree its not fake compassion, zack is just being a wally. Even more when he knows next to nothing about psychology. He just did not like being pulled up, hence the petty snide remark

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:06 am

OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.
By demonizing the Muslim community rather than just the terrorist the UK is separating itself from it's best asset in detecting radicalized individuals.

As shown in the USA when all the CIA agents sent into mosques to try and catch radicals were reported by the Mosques as potential threats (and attested to by Australia federal police and even RW leaders like Joyce)

Stop the praying for hashtags and Start changing the way you deal with terrorists threats. they are more preventable than the current UK policies are achieving. Look to other western nations that ARE more successful in preventing them, the keep calm and solider on with what your doing attitude will only get you so far, you need to adjust tack to Prevent more needless deaths

And we see this open demonization of Muslims on here everyday by British posters that pretend it is getting them somewhere and just being plain old pigheaded in face of the facts that it is NOT working! how many more need to die before you admit, you should take some advice from other western nations?

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Guest on Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:13 am

Thorin wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Didge, you know me and my view toward Islamist extremism. I do not dismiss the role of religion. In a thread not long ago I stated that the connection linking homegrown terrorism with IS and other groups was their shared faith (however differently practiced).

I do not disagree on this. I actually fully agree Islam itself is another part of the problem.

And so is UK foreign policy. Or are you right now going to tell me UK military involvement in Iraq, Libya and Syria has nothing whatsoever to do with the recent attacks?


How is foreign policy causing Yazidi girls to be raped Eilzel?

Sorry mate you are giving me the biggest bullshit apologist crap ever.
What you should be asking is why are people claiming its because we stepped into help rid Iraq or Saddam and Afghanistan of the Taliban or Libyia of Gaddafi?

So why would they have anything against the Uk by then being attacked by in many cases British Muslims? Off freeing Muslims from oppression and years of genocide?

Why are not we seeing Germans committing terrorism for our involvement in WW2?

Millions of Germans died at the hands of bomber Harris systematic campaign to destroy German Cities, so where is all the terrorism from them Eilzel?

How about Malaysia?

How about Vietnam?

How about Korea?

How about Serbia?

How about Croatia?

You tell me Eilzel

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Guest on Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:15 am

veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.


Cuckoo


Little Rock, Arkansas, June 1, 2009. Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad shot and murdered one soldier, Army Pvt. William Andrew Long, and injured another, Pvt. Quinton Ezeagwula, at a military recruiting station in Little Rock. Muhammad reportedly converted to Islam in college and was on the FBI's radar after being arrested in Yemen–a hotbed of radical Islamic terrorism–for using a Somali passport, even though he was a U.S. citizen. In a note to an Arkansas judge, Muhammad claimed to be a member of al-Qaeda in the Arab Peninsula, the terror group's Yemen chapter.

Fort Hood, Texas, November 5, 2009. Major Nidal Malik Hasan shot up a military base in Fort Hood and murdered 14 people. Hasan was in contact with al-Qaeda terrorist Anwar al-Awlaki prior to the attack and shouted "Allahu Akbar!" as he fired upon the soldiers on the Fort Hood base. After being sentenced to death, Hasan requested to join ISIS while on death row. It took six years for Obama to acknowledge the shooting as a terror attack instead of "workplace violence."

Boston, Massachusetts, April 15, 2013. Tamerlan and Dhozkar Tsarnaev set off two bombs at the 2013 Boston marathon, killing three and injuring over 260 people. The Tsarnaev brothers later shot and murdered Massachusetts Institute of Technology police officer Sean Collier. The Tsarnaev brothers were self-radicalized through online jihadist propaganda and through a mosque with ties to al-Qaeda.

Moore, Oklahoma, September 24, 2014. Alton Nolen beheaded a woman, Colleen Huff, at a Vaughan Foods plant and stabbed and injured another person. While Nolen's motives are unclear, he appears to have been another radicalized Muslim who was obsessed with beheadings.

Queens, New York, October 23, 2014. Zale Thompson, another self-radicalized Muslim, injured two police officers with a hatchet before being shot dead by other cops. Thompson reportedly indoctrinated himself with ISIS, al-Qaeda and al-Shabab–a Somali jihadist terror group–websites and was a lone wolf attacker.

Brooklyn, New York, December 20, 2014. Ismaayil Brinsley shot and murdered two police officers execution-style and his Facebook page featured jihadist postings and had ties to a terror-linked mosque.

Garland, Texas, May 3, 2015. Two gunmen shot up the Curtis Culwell Center in Garland, where a Mohammed cartoon contest was taking place, and were killed by a police officer. ISIS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Chattanooga, Tennessee, July 16, 2015. Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez shot and killed four Marines and a sailor at a military base in Chattanooga and was believed to have been inspired by ISIS.

San Bernardino, California, December 14, 2015. Two radical Islamists, Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik, shot and murdered 14 people and injured 22 others at an office holiday party.

Orlando, Florida, June 12, 2016. Omar Mateen, 29, opened fire at a gay nightclub, killing 49 and injuring 53. The FBI investigated Mateen twice before his rampage, but did not take any substantive action. Officials believe Mateen was self-radicalized but he pledged fealty to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi before his death. "The real Muslims will never accept the filthy ways of the west," Mateen posted on his Facebook page after committing his heinous act at Pulse nightclub. "I pledge my alliance to (ISIS leader) abu bakr al Baghdadi..may Allah accept me," he wrote.

St. Cloud, Minnesota, September 17, 2016. Dahir Ahmed Adan, a 20-year-old Somali refugee, began hacking at people with a steak knife at a Minnesota mall, injuring nine people before he was shot dead by off-duty police officer Jason Falconer. The FBI said numerous witnesses heard Adan yelling "Allahu akbar!" and "Islam! Islam!" during the rampage. He also asked potential victims if they were Muslims before inflicting wounds in their heads, necks, and chests. The FBI believe he had recently become self-radicalized. (As the Daily Wire highlighted, the Minneapolis Star Tribune attempted to blame "anti-Muslim tensions" for his murderous actions.)

New York City/New Jersey, September 17, 2016. Ahmad Khan Rahami, a 28-year-old naturalized citizen from Afghanistan, set off multiple bombs in New York and New Jersey. In Chelsea, his bomb resulted in the injury of over 30 people. Rahami wrote in his journal that he was connected to "terrorist leaders," and appears to have been heavily influenced by Sheikh Anwar, Anwar al-Awlaki, Nidal Hassan, and Osama bin Laden. "I pray to the beautiful wise ALLAH, [d]o not take JIHAD away from me," Rahami wrote. "You [USA Government] continue your [unintelligible] slaught[er]" against the holy warriors, "be it Afghanistan, Iraq, Sham [Syria], Palestine ... "

Columbus, Ohio, November 28, 2016. Abdul Razak Ali Artan, an ISIS-inspired 20-year-old Somali refugee who had been granted permanent legal residence in 2014 after living in Pakistan for 7 years, attempted to run over his fellow Ohio State students on campus. After his car was stopped by a barrier, he got out of the vehicle and began hacking at people with a butcher knife before being shot dead by a campus police officer. He injured 11 people, one critically. ISIS took credit for the attack, describing Artan as their "soldier." Just three minutes before his rampage, Artan posted a warning to America on Facebook that the "lone wolf attacks" will continue until America "give[s] peace to the Muslims." He also praised deceased al-Qaeda cleric Anwar Al-Awlaki as a "hero."


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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Guest on Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:21 am

Thorin wrote:So yet again nobody can answer and they know why they cannot, because the claim to foreign policy is bullshit and actually feeds into a narrative that the terrorists use to fuel hate against the west. That some how with the Manchester Bomber, he acted not of Assad gassing Muslims, but that trump retaliated against an airfield, from where warplanes flew to commit war crimes. That this was seen as a far more heinous crime than Assad murdering Muslims.

There is only one connection, that islam within its doctrimes teaches to fight against those who transgress and this is used not against those who are murderers like Assad, but against those looking to stop him.

I am sick to death of those who give apologist bullshit to the real cause of islamic terrorism.

Why not tell all the Yazidi girls being raped, that its not because of Islamic doctrine on sex slaves, but foreign policy that they are raped daily?

Are any of you apologists going to suggest its foreign policy they are raped?


?

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Guest on Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:22 am

Thorin wrote:I mean can anyone imagine this apologist line of thinking during the Inquisition.

That women burned at the stakes for being witches, were at fault for helping people get better. That their policy as being healers as many were seen as, was the cause to burn them to death. This is the madness peddled by those on the left. They look to blame those who are the victims of these attacks and not the perpetrators who do these crimes and do so based off what they believe from their religious bullshit.

I mean what next, are people here going to blame the Jews for fleeing from pogroms in Russia and settling in Germany, as the reason for why Hitler wanted to exterminate them? Are they going to excuse nazi ideology for this? Are they going to say the jews caused this themselves by being who they are? That is what the apologist argument is essentially arguing for. That we would have been wrong to stop Germany committing the Holocaust and that by doing so, it would cause German terrorists against the west. Now my history is a little shaky, but where was that terrorism?

What a crock of shit by those blaming foreign policy, you should be ashamed of yourselves. That to be seen to help is the cause for this terrorism?

What sort of fucked up world are we living in today, where we are blamed for when we look to help.

?

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by eddie on Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:46 pm

veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.
By demonizing the Muslim community rather than just the terrorist the UK is separating itself from it's best asset in detecting radicalized individuals.

As shown in the USA when all the CIA agents sent into mosques to try and catch radicals were reported by the Mosques as potential threats (and attested to by Australia federal police and even RW leaders like Joyce)

Stop the praying for hashtags and Start changing the way you deal with terrorists threats. they are more preventable than the current UK policies are achieving. Look to other western nations that ARE more successful in preventing them, the keep calm and solider on with what your doing attitude will only get you so far, you need to adjust tack to Prevent more needless deaths

And we see this open demonization of Muslims on here everyday by British posters that pretend it is getting them somewhere and just being plain old pigheaded in face of the facts that it is NOT working! how many more need to die before you admit, you should take some advice from other western nations?

Veya dear old chap. This forum is NOT indicative of how Britain is??!!
We have mosques and Muslims do integrate - most of them very well actually. They are wlelcomed and feel welcome.

What are you on about??

I never step in to the country-cock-swinging-contests you lot have but you seem to keep making assumptions even though you're not here!!

It's really irritating.


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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:59 pm

eddie wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.
By demonizing the Muslim community rather than just the terrorist the UK is separating itself from it's best asset in detecting radicalized individuals.

As shown in the USA when all the CIA agents sent into mosques to try and catch radicals were reported by the Mosques as potential threats (and attested to by Australia federal police and even RW leaders like Joyce)

Stop the praying for hashtags and Start changing the way you deal with terrorists threats. they are more preventable than the current UK policies are achieving. Look to other western nations that ARE more successful in preventing them, the keep calm and solider on with what your doing attitude will only get you so far, you need to adjust tack to Prevent more needless deaths

And we see this open demonization of Muslims on here everyday by British posters that pretend it is getting them somewhere and just being plain old pigheaded in face of the facts that it is NOT working! how many more need to die before you admit, you should take some advice from other western nations?

Veya dear old chap. This forum is NOT indicative of how Britain is??!!
We have mosques and Muslims do integrate - most of them very well actually. They are wlelcomed and feel welcome.

What are you on about??

I never step in to the country-cock-swinging-contests you lot have but you seem to keep making assumptions even though you're not here!!

It's really irritating.


We have a mosque round the corner from where I live. They're having an open day soon, and all faiths are invited. They do it every so often and a nicer bunch you wouldn't meet anywhere. I have Muslim clients. I shop at my local Muslim shop all the time. But...I'm not gonna tolerate the radicals and I loathe what they represent. And I'll speak out against them and their vision of Islam. It's well known on here that I reject all religion, I don't discriminate, I hold them all in contempt. But that doesn't mean I'm going to hold that against those who believe in a peaceful live and let live faith. That's their choice. Just don't push it on me, or kill in the name of some medieval crusade, and leave your medieval religious practices like FGM and misogyny in the past where it belongs. If you persist in that, I'll speak out and give you my derision. I'd do it equally with Catholics, Jews, Christians and Hindus and any other radical banner waving religious nut.
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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Syl on Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:04 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
eddie wrote:

Veya dear old chap. This forum is NOT indicative of how Britain is??!!
We have mosques and Muslims do integrate - most of them very well actually. They are wlelcomed and feel welcome.

What are you on about??

I never step in to the country-cock-swinging-contests you lot have but you seem to keep making assumptions even though you're not here!!

It's really irritating.


We have a  mosque round the corner from where I live.   They're having an open day soon, and all faiths are invited.  They do it every so often and a nicer bunch you wouldn't meet anywhere.    I have Muslim clients.  I shop at my local Muslim shop all the time.   But...I'm not gonna tolerate the radicals and I loathe what they represent.  And I'll speak out against them and  their vision of Islam.   It's well known on here that I reject all religion, I don't discriminate, I hold them all in contempt.  But that doesn't mean I'm going to hold that against those who believe in a peaceful live and let live faith.  That's their choice.   Just don't push it on me, or kill in the name of some medieval crusade, and leave your medieval religious practices like FGM and misogyny in the past where it belongs.  If you persist in that, I'll speak out and give you my derision.  I'd do it equally with Catholics, Jews, Christians and Hindus and any other radical banner waving religious nut.

Quite right too....and I honestly think that's exactly the way the majority of people feel.
When people scream racist at you (usually on a forum, I bet you don't hear that in real life) they do it to silence you....it doesn't work.


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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:06 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

We have a  mosque round the corner from where I live.   They're having an open day soon, and all faiths are invited.  They do it every so often and a nicer bunch you wouldn't meet anywhere.    I have Muslim clients.  I shop at my local Muslim shop all the time.   But...I'm not gonna tolerate the radicals and I loathe what they represent.  And I'll speak out against them and  their vision of Islam.   It's well known on here that I reject all religion, I don't discriminate, I hold them all in contempt.  But that doesn't mean I'm going to hold that against those who believe in a peaceful live and let live faith.  That's their choice.   Just don't push it on me, or kill in the name of some medieval crusade, and leave your medieval religious practices like FGM and misogyny in the past where it belongs.  If you persist in that, I'll speak out and give you my derision.  I'd do it equally with Catholics, Jews, Christians and Hindus and any other radical banner waving religious nut.

Quite right too....and I honestly think that's exactly the way the majority of people feel.
When people scream racist at you (usually on a forum, I bet you don't hear that in real life) they do it to silence you....it doesn't work.


No, it doesn't. Because from their mouths (fingers) it just sounds trite and tedious and is rendered meaningless.
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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Syl on Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:09 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:

Quite right too....and I honestly think that's exactly the way the majority of people feel.
When people scream racist at you (usually on a forum, I bet you don't hear that in real life) they do it to silence you....it doesn't work.


No, it doesn't.  Because from their mouths (fingers) it just sounds trite and tedious and is rendered meaningless.

Exactly...a bit like the F word, its lost all value to shock, I even type it myself now and again lately.....I don't press send though,cos I'm a Laydee. Razz

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by eddie on Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:27 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:

Quite right too....and I honestly think that's exactly the way the majority of people feel.
When people scream racist at you (usually on a forum, I bet you don't hear that in real life) they do it to silence you....it doesn't work.


No, it doesn't.  Because from their mouths (fingers) it just sounds trite and tedious and is rendered meaningless.

Exactly...a bit like the F word, its lost all value to shock, I even type it myself now and again lately.....I don't press send though,cos  I'm a Laydee. Razz

So the fuck am I.

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by nicko on Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:14 pm

Laughing
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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Syl on Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:28 pm

Lol...yes you are, but from a younger generation when the F word had already lost its shock value.

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:50 am

eddie wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.
By demonizing the Muslim community rather than just the terrorist the UK is separating itself from it's best asset in detecting radicalized individuals.

As shown in the USA when all the CIA agents sent into mosques to try and catch radicals were reported by the Mosques as potential threats (and attested to by Australia federal police and even RW leaders like Joyce)

Stop the praying for hashtags and Start changing the way you deal with terrorists threats. they are more preventable than the current UK policies are achieving. Look to other western nations that ARE more successful in preventing them, the keep calm and solider on with what your doing attitude will only get you so far, you need to adjust tack to Prevent more needless deaths

And we see this open demonization of Muslims on here everyday by British posters that pretend it is getting them somewhere and just being plain old pigheaded in face of the facts that it is NOT working! how many more need to die before you admit, you should take some advice from other western nations?

Veya dear old chap. This forum is NOT indicative of how Britain is??!!
We have mosques and Muslims do integrate - most of them very well actually. They are wlelcomed and feel welcome.

What are you on about??

I never step in to the country-cock-swinging-contests you lot have but you seem to keep making assumptions even though you're not here!!

It's really irritating.


A forum is and echoism of a societies true thoughts not just the face they put on when people can see them.
Maybe if you really want to defend Britain you should do more to make it apparent to ones that think all Muslims want to stab them that they are idiots.

In Australia People do speak openly like me and wolf speak, what is on the forum is a representation of Australian views (given it is only the LW since we don't have any aussie RW posters) , the Americans here I feel speak openly too.

And it is YOU that is being Nationalist defending the indefensible, I am not saying Australia is better just we are handling these same threats better and the UK needs to change it's attitude if it want to try and stop these homegrown terrorists and more importantly Stop growing new ones , If you where doing something better we'd steal it, but we'd also be honest enough with our selves to see the OP is right. I mean the British Muslim on this forum even felt as such.

@HT
then why don't you comment more often when some of the ultra-brits say "all Muslims are thinking about stabbing you when they have a conversation with you." By allowing these Ultra-brits to demonize the Muslim community you are not doing your nation any favors. you could be the voice of tolerance and reason that prevents the radicalization of some British Muslim youth. instead these British Muslim kids are raised getting hate shouted at them by the vocal ultra-brits with barely a British voices to be heard telling them they can be accepted.


ALSO @both/all
we don't have to be there to see it plastered all over the news!!! what is really irritating is having to read Again and again
that British police have ignored another terrorist they were warned about
that the British people are demonizing the Muslim communities even more, driving them even further away, driving the radicalization of British Muslim youths.
Which means we to have to tell our Muslims community not to worry we aren't a bunch of fuckwits, that think the fuckwit terrorist is representative of their communities , (which is the point even RW loons like Barnaby Joyce, the guy that threatened to put down johnny depps dogs, have been vocal in support of our Muslims and the work they do to identify those that have been radicalized to authorities)  and we to have to bash our fuckwits (like Hanson and Abbott) on the head when they try and spout the sort of ridiculous demonization that is posted everyday by the ultra-Brits on here.

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:11 am

And there you have it. Its not because of an extreme ideology, its because of anti-Muslim hatred, apparently. That in countries world wide people are being murdered whether Muslim or Non-Muslim. That even though Blacks and Asians suffer suffer far worse hate crimes, and do not see them turn to terrorism over racism itself or any ideology that calls for this off their ethnicity. Its again because of those British people. What can i say. Excusing terrorism based off a minor number of hate crimes, when none of the terrorist attacks happen due to hate crimes, is as poor as it gets from apologists.

On top of that we have 23,000 suspects in this country and who can do little against people who hold extremist beliefs. Either there is evidence of a suspected attack, or that we then monitor all 23,000 suspect Islamist extremist to monitor round the clock. Which based on this number would require the manpower of 1.3 million Police and security services. Does anyone even know how much that would cost just to pay their salaries? Its easy after an event to start casting blame, but these latest terrorists held extremist views. Nothing had pointed to an attack. What we have to do is work with the Muslim community and yes tackle hate crimes against them, just as we do with any group that is targeted. Though we also have a problem with the number of Muslims growing up in this country who are educated on Liberal values and rejected this for Islamism. The number of 23,000 suspects shows how problematic this situation is. Yes we tackle all extremism, whether religious or political.

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:06 am

Thorin wrote:And there you have it. Its not because of an extreme ideology, its because of anti-Muslim hatred, apparently. That in countries world wide people are being murdered whether Muslim or Non-Muslim. That even though Blacks and Asians suffer suffer far worse hate crimes, and do not see them turn to terrorism over racism itself or any ideology that calls for this off their ethnicity. Its again because of those British people. What can i say. Excusing terrorism based off a minor number of hate crimes, when none of the terrorist attacks happen due to hate crimes, is as poor as it gets from apologists.

On top of that we have 23,000 suspects in this country and who can do little against people who hold extremist beliefs. Either there is evidence of a suspected attack, or that we then monitor all 23,000 suspect Islamist extremist to monitor round the clock. Which based on this number would require the manpower of 1.3 million Police and security services. Does anyone even know how much that would cost just to pay their salaries? Its easy after an event to start casting blame, but these latest terrorists held extremist views. Nothing had pointed to an attack. What we have to do is work with the Muslim community and yes tackle hate crimes against them, just as we do with any group that is targeted. Though we also have a problem with the number of Muslims growing up in this country who are educated on Liberal values and rejected this for Islamism. The number of 23,000 suspects shows how problematic this situation is. Yes we tackle all extremism, whether religious or political.

If you were the poster child for 'British' Liberal values I'd reject them too Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
talk about a major marketing FAIL
tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue

Demonization has not worked so far, but thorin's all for giving it another go Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect

the number reported by Islamic community is much lower, and should be treated with the highest probability of being true. start there

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:21 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Thorin wrote:And there you have it. Its not because of an extreme ideology, its because of anti-Muslim hatred, apparently. That in countries world wide people are being murdered whether Muslim or Non-Muslim. That even though Blacks and Asians suffer suffer far worse hate crimes, and do not see them turn to terrorism over racism itself or any ideology that calls for this off their ethnicity. Its again because of those British people. What can i say. Excusing terrorism based off a minor number of hate crimes, when none of the terrorist attacks happen due to hate crimes, is as poor as it gets from apologists.

On top of that we have 23,000 suspects in this country and who can do little against people who hold extremist beliefs. Either there is evidence of a suspected attack, or that we then monitor all 23,000 suspect Islamist extremist to monitor round the clock. Which based on this number would require the manpower of 1.3 million Police and security services. Does anyone even know how much that would cost just to pay their salaries? Its easy after an event to start casting blame, but these latest terrorists held extremist views. Nothing had pointed to an attack. What we have to do is work with the Muslim community and yes tackle hate crimes against them, just as we do with any group that is targeted. Though we also have a problem with the number of Muslims growing up in this country who are educated on Liberal values and rejected this for Islamism. The number of 23,000 suspects shows how problematic this situation is. Yes we tackle all extremism, whether religious or political.

If you were the poster child for 'British' Liberal values I'd reject them too  Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
talk about a major marketing FAIL
tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue

Demonization has not worked so far, but thorin's all for giving it another go Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect

the number reported by Islamic community is much lower, and should be treated with the highest probability of being true. start there  

Well i am not surprised you reject my Liberal values, as its evident you are illiberal.

Then we have the daily invented lies, as you cannot counter my points

So again how many billions do you think it would take to pay 1.3 billion people?


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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by HoratioTarr on Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:52 am

veya_victaous wrote:

@HT
then why don't you comment more often when some of the ultra-brits say "all Muslims are thinking about stabbing you when they have a conversation with you." By allowing these Ultra-brits to demonize the Muslim community you are not doing your nation any favors. you could be the voice of tolerance and reason that prevents the radicalization of some British Muslim youth. instead these British Muslim kids are raised getting hate shouted at them by the vocal ultra-brits with barely a British voices to be heard telling them they can be accepted.


ALSO @both/all
we don't have to be there to see it plastered all over the news!!! what is really irritating is having to read Again and again
that British police have ignored another terrorist they were warned about
that the British people are demonizing the Muslim communities even more, driving them even further away, driving the radicalization of British Muslim youths.
Which means we to have to tell our Muslims community not to worry we aren't a bunch of fuckwits, that think the fuckwit terrorist is representative of their communities , (which is the point even RW loons like Barnaby Joyce, the guy that threatened to put down johnny depps dogs, have been vocal in support of our Muslims and the work they do to identify those that have been radicalized to authorities)  and we to have to bash our fuckwits (like Hanson and Abbott) on the head when they try and spout the sort of ridiculous demonization that is posted everyday by the ultra-Brits on here.

Where did someone say that? I must have missed that one. I live in an Asian/Muslim area and have for over ten years and never had a problem. I've never seen in all the time I've lived here any clashes or racism. Who are the Ultra Brits exactly? Nobody on here is that Right Wing, only that idiot the Major and he's gone. Everyone does have opinions though and that's their prerogative, just as it's yours to speak your mind. However, I can tell you one thing, despite the fact that we all live side by side here in my area, there's not much integration. The definition of 'integration' is to merge. That's not happening here. Each ethnic group is quite separate. You rarely see Asians working locally in Western shops, for example. Or Polish and Westerners working in Asian shops. I've never ever seen an Asian customer in the local Polish supermarkets and vice versa. We have a small Chinese community as well. They keep very much to themselves.

But I digress. I would certainly speak out if I saw a Muslim getting abused on our streets, particularly a woman, but I've never seen it. However, if I saw a Muslim spouting hate on our streets, I wouldn't like that either. When you do that, you deserve all you have coming to you from other people's derision and contempt.

It's a sad fact that there will always be degrees of violence within our society particularly from young males. But we're also intelligent enough to rise above it, it's just that some choose not to. I don't believe any amount of standing up for the underdog would change that or stop radicalisation in it's tracks. It's all about individual choices for either good or evil. It's not just Muslims who suffer poverty/discrimination. All ethnic groups do, including Westerners. And women have, in the past, suffered greatly from discrimination and brutality, both in the home and the workplace.

Male violence and aggression has been part of human history since before we were human. Violence is still with us because it solved adaptive problems we faced in our ancestral past.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ape-girl/201308/young-men-and-violence

The irony here is that certain posters on this forum who continually berate others for their beliefs/opinions and lack of moral backbone, are the most aggressive and vociferous.

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by eddie on Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:14 am

veya_victaous wrote:
eddie wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.
By demonizing the Muslim community rather than just the terrorist the UK is separating itself from it's best asset in detecting radicalized individuals.

As shown in the USA when all the CIA agents sent into mosques to try and catch radicals were reported by the Mosques as potential threats (and attested to by Australia federal police and even RW leaders like Joyce)

Stop the praying for hashtags and Start changing the way you deal with terrorists threats. they are more preventable than the current UK policies are achieving. Look to other western nations that ARE more successful in preventing them, the keep calm and solider on with what your doing attitude will only get you so far, you need to adjust tack to Prevent more needless deaths

And we see this open demonization of Muslims on here everyday by British posters that pretend it is getting them somewhere and just being plain old pigheaded in face of the facts that it is NOT working! how many more need to die before you admit, you should take some advice from other western nations?

Veya dear old chap. This forum is NOT indicative of how Britain is??!!
We have mosques and Muslims do integrate - most of them very well actually. They are wlelcomed and feel welcome.

What are you on about??

I never step in to the country-cock-swinging-contests you lot have but you seem to keep making assumptions even though you're not here!!

It's really irritating.


A forum is and echoism of a societies true thoughts not just the face they put on when people can see them.
Maybe if you really want to defend Britain you should do more to make it apparent to ones that think all Muslims want to stab them that they are idiots.

In Australia People do speak openly like me and wolf speak, what is on the forum is a representation of Australian views (given it is only the LW since we don't have any aussie RW posters) , the Americans here I feel speak openly too.

And it is YOU that is being Nationalist defending the indefensible, I am not saying Australia is better just we are handling these same threats better and the UK needs to change it's attitude if it want to try and stop these homegrown terrorists and more importantly Stop growing new ones , If you where doing something better we'd steal it, but we'd also be honest enough with our selves to see the OP is right. I mean the British Muslim on this forum even felt as such.

@HT
then why don't you comment more often when some of the ultra-brits say "all Muslims are thinking about stabbing you when they have a conversation with you." By allowing these Ultra-brits to demonize the Muslim community you are not doing your nation any favors. you could be the voice of tolerance and reason that prevents the radicalization of some British Muslim youth. instead these British Muslim kids are raised getting hate shouted at them by the vocal ultra-brits with barely a British voices to be heard telling them they can be accepted.


ALSO @both/all
we don't have to be there to see it plastered all over the news!!! what is really irritating is having to read Again and again
that British police have ignored another terrorist they were warned about
that the British people are demonizing the Muslim communities even more, driving them even further away, driving the radicalization of British Muslim youths.
Which means we to have to tell our Muslims community not to worry we aren't a bunch of fuckwits, that think the fuckwit terrorist is representative of their communities , (which is the point even RW loons like Barnaby Joyce, the guy that threatened to put down johnny depps dogs, have been vocal in support of our Muslims and the work they do to identify those that have been radicalized to authorities)  and we to have to bash our fuckwits (like Hanson and Abbott) on the head when they try and spout the sort of ridiculous demonization that is posted everyday by the ultra-Brits on here.


Veya I have made many many posts about "not all Muslims being the same" - I've been saying the same for years which is why I was in the tiny minority on a certain other site and why I barely  post there anymore.
I've made many threads which show the diversity of how British people think - and I really don't think debate forums are 100% indicative of how a certain race/culture think.
I've made many posts sharing my actual real experience of Muslims are in general (good / no different to any other person / peaceful as you'd expect) and explained how they fit into British life.
I have made many many posts explaining my love of unification - how London was so diverse and multicultural and I grew up there knowing that all people are the same regardless. . My friends and boyfreinds were black and Asian and mixed-race.
I have made it clear that I bring my children up with these same values that I have.

I can't do any more and I shouldn't have to keep explaining myself. You either know me by now or you don't.

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:09 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

@HT
then why don't you comment more often when some of the ultra-brits say "all Muslims are thinking about stabbing you when they have a conversation with you." By allowing these Ultra-brits to demonize the Muslim community you are not doing your nation any favors. you could be the voice of tolerance and reason that prevents the radicalization of some British Muslim youth. instead these British Muslim kids are raised getting hate shouted at them by the vocal ultra-brits with barely a British voices to be heard telling them they can be accepted.


ALSO @both/all
we don't have to be there to see it plastered all over the news!!! what is really irritating is having to read Again and again
that British police have ignored another terrorist they were warned about
that the British people are demonizing the Muslim communities even more, driving them even further away, driving the radicalization of British Muslim youths.
Which means we to have to tell our Muslims community not to worry we aren't a bunch of fuckwits, that think the fuckwit terrorist is representative of their communities , (which is the point even RW loons like Barnaby Joyce, the guy that threatened to put down johnny depps dogs, have been vocal in support of our Muslims and the work they do to identify those that have been radicalized to authorities)  and we to have to bash our fuckwits (like Hanson and Abbott) on the head when they try and spout the sort of ridiculous demonization that is posted everyday by the ultra-Brits on here.

Where did someone say that?   I must have missed that one.   I live in an Asian/Muslim area  and have for over ten years and never had a problem.    I've never seen in all the time I've lived here any clashes or racism.   Who are the Ultra Brits exactly?    Nobody on here is that Right Wing, only that idiot the Major and he's gone.  Everyone does have opinions though and that's their prerogative, just as it's yours to speak your mind.   However, I can tell you one thing, despite the fact that we all live side by side here in my area, there's not much integration.   The definition of 'integration' is to merge.   That's not happening here.  Each ethnic group is quite separate.  You rarely see Asians working locally in Western shops, for example.  Or Polish and Westerners working in Asian shops.    I've never ever seen an Asian customer in the local Polish supermarkets and vice versa. We have a small Chinese community as well.    They keep very much to themselves.  

But I digress.  I would certainly speak out if I saw a Muslim getting abused on our streets, particularly a woman, but I've never seen it.   However, if I saw a Muslim spouting hate on our streets, I wouldn't like that either.  When you do that, you deserve all you have coming to you from other people's derision and contempt.  

It's a sad fact that there will always be degrees of violence within our society particularly from young males.  But we're also intelligent enough to rise above it, it's just that some choose not to.  I don't believe any amount of standing up for the underdog would change that or stop radicalisation in it's tracks.  It's all about individual choices for either good or evil.  It's not just Muslims who suffer poverty/discrimination.  All ethnic groups do, including Westerners.  And women have, in the past, suffered greatly from discrimination and brutality, both in the home and the workplace.

Male violence and aggression has been part of human history since before we were human.   Violence is still with us because it solved adaptive problems we faced in our ancestral past.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ape-girl/201308/young-men-and-violence

The irony here is that certain posters on this forum who continually berate others for their beliefs/opinions and lack of moral backbone, are the most aggressive and vociferous.    



Nicko said that Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
He said the Muslims I have coffee with are talking to me thinking You'll get yours infidel and wanting to stab me in the neck.
even after i had explained they are educated middle aged men, Australian citizens with Aussie born kids. That comment negatively on ISIS etc when it is in the paper.

And on the point I bolded in your post
that is why i have said and been shouted down multiple times that the UK is not really multicultural and integrates migrants poorly.
Because here you do seen whites Indians Polynesians Arabs shopping in the Chinese grocery, all will buy some thing in Middle eastern or Vietnamese bakeries, Indian and Italian food is popular with everyone. here Polish, German, French etc are so well integrated as to be indistinguishable from British decent Australians.

Yes it is true that young men are the most likely to be violent and terrorists or thugs, and the thing is standing up for the underdog does stop them. they (whether it be Islamic terrorists or the school shooter in the USA) are isolated and feel disconnected from the community around them, someone speaking up for them can be the factor that stops them. they aren't doing this because they read just one of thorin's posts, they do it because there is so much media like thorin's posts that they drown in it. (plus there is just some that are innately evil which we can do nothing about )

@eddie
it is when you stop standing up for them, there is simple not enough people holding the line against intolerance in this day and age. And in the UK especially, as seen in the British media that is beamed all over the world

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by The Devil, You Know on Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:13 pm

veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.
By demonizing the Muslim community rather than just the terrorist the UK is separating itself from it's best asset in detecting radicalized individuals.

As shown in the USA when all the CIA agents sent into mosques to try and catch radicals were reported by the Mosques as potential threats (and attested to by Australia federal police and even RW leaders like Joyce)

Stop the praying for hashtags and Start changing the way you deal with terrorists threats. they are more preventable than the current UK policies are achieving. Look to other western nations that ARE more successful in preventing them, the keep calm and solider on with what your doing attitude will only get you so far, you need to adjust tack to Prevent more needless deaths

And we see this open demonization of Muslims on here everyday by British posters that pretend it is getting them somewhere and just being plain old pigheaded in face of the facts that it is NOT working! how many more need to die before you admit, you should take some advice from other western nations?
didn't australia just have another terrorist attack and hostage taking yesterday?

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by The Devil, You Know on Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:15 pm

eddie wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.
By demonizing the Muslim community rather than just the terrorist the UK is separating itself from it's best asset in detecting radicalized individuals.

As shown in the USA when all the CIA agents sent into mosques to try and catch radicals were reported by the Mosques as potential threats (and attested to by Australia federal police and even RW leaders like Joyce)

Stop the praying for hashtags and Start changing the way you deal with terrorists threats. they are more preventable than the current UK policies are achieving. Look to other western nations that ARE more successful in preventing them, the keep calm and solider on with what your doing attitude will only get you so far, you need to adjust tack to Prevent more needless deaths

And we see this open demonization of Muslims on here everyday by British posters that pretend it is getting them somewhere and just being plain old pigheaded in face of the facts that it is NOT working! how many more need to die before you admit, you should take some advice from other western nations?

Veya dear old chap. This forum is NOT indicative of how Britain is??!!
We have mosques and Muslims do integrate - most of them very well actually. They are wlelcomed and feel welcome.

What are you on about??

I never step in to the country-cock-swinging-contests you lot have but you seem to keep making assumptions even though you're not here!!

It's really irritating.

you might have a look here
http://www.newsfixboard.com/t21041-is-it-only-a-few-make-your-mind-up#402577
to see how well they have integrated

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by The Devil, You Know on Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:17 pm

Thorin wrote:And there you have it. Its not because of an extreme ideology, its because of anti-Muslim hatred, apparently. That in countries world wide people are being murdered whether Muslim or Non-Muslim. That even though Blacks and Asians suffer suffer far worse hate crimes, and do not see them turn to terrorism over racism itself or any ideology that calls for this off their ethnicity. Its again because of those British people. What can i say. Excusing terrorism based off a minor number of hate crimes, when none of the terrorist attacks happen due to hate crimes, is as poor as it gets from apologists.

On top of that we have 23,000 suspects in this country and who can do little against people who hold extremist beliefs. Either there is evidence of a suspected attack, or that we then monitor all 23,000 suspect Islamist extremist to monitor round the clock. Which based on this number would require the manpower of 1.3 million Police and security services. Does anyone even know how much that would cost just to pay their salaries? Its easy after an event to start casting blame, but these latest terrorists held extremist views. Nothing had pointed to an attack. What we have to do is work with the Muslim community and yes tackle hate crimes against them, just as we do with any group that is targeted. Though we also have a problem with the number of Muslims growing up in this country who are educated on Liberal values and rejected this for Islamism. The number of 23,000 suspects shows how problematic this situation is. Yes we tackle all extremism, whether religious or political.
it's because it is islam in its purest form. That is the elephant in the room

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:33 pm

how is that relevant?
he was a parole violator and the issues around parole in Victoria releasing violent criminals is not a new topic. he is actually one that has done very little damage on the scale of the damage done by other violent parole violators in the last 12 months. and he was an Meth users so hard to call him a real Muslim anyway definitely not practicing. It was British papers that jumped up and down saying terrorism the local one didn't particularly because just a little bit of back ground showed a mentally unstable criminal drug addict.

AND did you not see that he going on about British attitudes and saying all westerners where like that? Which is precisely why Aussies like me have to make it VERY CLEAR that all westerns are not geranium like the British media displays.
That we distance ourselves from the British version of multiculturalism. the attitudes displayed by people like you, nicko etc are very much the minority down here and we would prefer to welcome a moderate Muslim than an extremist Anglo. As i Sadi above
Every time you have a terrorist attack and then react poorly WE need to mend the cracks down here too. Because despite the Brexit fairy wishes the world is actually global now Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

Is there something wrong with you? you seem to think one violent criminal justifies vilification of an entire community. Which is precisely why this is a repeated so regularly in the UK will little end in sight. More decent Brits need to stand up to pea brained jackasses like you.

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:44 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:OP is 100% right
it is not western policies either
Have the USA or Australian etc had continued attacks
No because we engaged our Muslim communities and the mosques and they are reporting them BEFORE these attacks take place.
By demonizing the Muslim community rather than just the terrorist the UK is separating itself from it's best asset in detecting radicalized individuals.

As shown in the USA when all the CIA agents sent into mosques to try and catch radicals were reported by the Mosques as potential threats (and attested to by Australia federal police and even RW leaders like Joyce)

Stop the praying for hashtags and Start changing the way you deal with terrorists threats. they are more preventable than the current UK policies are achieving. Look to other western nations that ARE more successful in preventing them, the keep calm and solider on with what your doing attitude will only get you so far, you need to adjust tack to Prevent more needless deaths

And we see this open demonization of Muslims on here everyday by British posters that pretend it is getting them somewhere and just being plain old pigheaded in face of the facts that it is NOT working! how many more need to die before you admit, you should take some advice from other western nations?
didn't australia just have another terrorist attack and hostage taking yesterday?


Question

"Hostage taking" ???

Where was this ???

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by HoratioTarr on Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:19 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Where did someone say that?   I must have missed that one.   I live in an Asian/Muslim area  and have for over ten years and never had a problem.    I've never seen in all the time I've lived here any clashes or racism.   Who are the Ultra Brits exactly?    Nobody on here is that Right Wing, only that idiot the Major and he's gone.  Everyone does have opinions though and that's their prerogative, just as it's yours to speak your mind.   However, I can tell you one thing, despite the fact that we all live side by side here in my area, there's not much integration.   The definition of 'integration' is to merge.   That's not happening here.  Each ethnic group is quite separate.  You rarely see Asians working locally in Western shops, for example.  Or Polish and Westerners working in Asian shops.    I've never ever seen an Asian customer in the local Polish supermarkets and vice versa. We have a small Chinese community as well.    They keep very much to themselves.  

But I digress.  I would certainly speak out if I saw a Muslim getting abused on our streets, particularly a woman, but I've never seen it.   However, if I saw a Muslim spouting hate on our streets, I wouldn't like that either.  When you do that, you deserve all you have coming to you from other people's derision and contempt.  

It's a sad fact that there will always be degrees of violence within our society particularly from young males.  But we're also intelligent enough to rise above it, it's just that some choose not to.  I don't believe any amount of standing up for the underdog would change that or stop radicalisation in it's tracks.  It's all about individual choices for either good or evil.  It's not just Muslims who suffer poverty/discrimination.  All ethnic groups do, including Westerners.  And women have, in the past, suffered greatly from discrimination and brutality, both in the home and the workplace.

Male violence and aggression has been part of human history since before we were human.   Violence is still with us because it solved adaptive problems we faced in our ancestral past.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ape-girl/201308/young-men-and-violence

The irony here is that certain posters on this forum who continually berate others for their beliefs/opinions and lack of moral backbone, are the most aggressive and vociferous.    



Nicko said that Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
He said the Muslims I have coffee with are talking to me thinking You'll get yours infidel and wanting to stab me in the neck.
even after i had explained they are educated middle aged men, Australian citizens with Aussie born kids. That comment negatively on ISIS etc when it is in the paper.

And on the point I bolded in your post
that is why i have said and been shouted down multiple times that the UK is not really multicultural and integrates migrants poorly.
Because here you do seen whites Indians Polynesians Arabs shopping in the Chinese grocery, all will buy some thing in Middle eastern or Vietnamese  bakeries, Indian and Italian food is popular with everyone. here Polish, German, French etc are so well integrated as to be indistinguishable from British decent Australians.

Yes it is true that young men are the most likely to be violent and terrorists or thugs, and the thing is standing up for the underdog does stop them. they (whether it be Islamic terrorists or the school shooter in the USA) are isolated and feel disconnected from the community around them, someone speaking up for them can be the factor that stops them. they aren't doing this because they read just one of thorin's posts, they do it because there is so much media like thorin's posts that they drown in it. (plus there is just some that are innately evil which we can do nothing about )  

@eddie
it is when you stop standing up for them, there is simple not enough people holding the line against intolerance in this day and age. And in the UK especially, as seen in the British media that is beamed all over the world

Like I said, this is just my experience in our local shops.    I think integration only goes so far though.   If it were fully implemented, then a Catholic or Christian could walk into a mosque to worship and vice versa.  In fact, I'm not sure any Asian would ever be asked to leave a Church.  But I think a non-Muslim would not be allowed to pray in a mosque.

I think you'll find that in the UK we are very tolerant and God knows where we'd be without the diverse cultures and all the joys that brings, such as food and music.  Our country is a much more interesting place because of this.

It's only natural for human beings to want to congregate amongst others of the same culture/beliefs etc.   And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.   Go into any Shisha joint in Rusholme and you rarely see a white face.  That's not because Westerners are excluded.  It's because Shisha isn't something Westerners have generally embraced and so they rarely use them.  You won't see Asians doing afternoon tea at the local Frou Frou Cafe.  It's just not their bag.     It's not because they can't, or are excluded, it's more likely to be because they don't want to.  Nothing wrong with that.

I get sick to death of people banging on about how hostile we are in the UK to ethnic minorities.  That's bullshit.  It's no more true  and is coming from the same mindset as saying all Muslims are terrorists.
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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by The Devil, You Know on Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:25 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
didn't australia just have another terrorist attack and hostage taking yesterday?


Question

"Hostage taking"  ???

Where was this  ???
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/06/hostage-taker-australia-had-acquitted-plotting-terror-attack/

when you mum gets back ask her to read it to you, until then just look at the pictures.

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by eddie on Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:28 pm

One of my best friend's is Indian. She is an ex-Hindu (I say ex because she stopped believing in anything when her two year old daughter died horribly in a private nursery) and she has told me that she can experience "feelings of discomfort" just after attacks even though she's not Muslim and dresses as a westerner.
I asked her if it was actual incidents or her own paranoia because she was Indian. This woman is highly educated let me tell you and she said "I think it's mainly paranoia but feelings are so heightened I can be a little worried when I'm on the tube travelling to London because I do feel apologetic for my colouring"

That made me feel really sad for her actually. I adore that woman and to think she feels that way makes me feel despair. She understands people's reactions though - and that makes me feel even sadder.

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by The Devil, You Know on Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:31 pm

yes she is a victim of islamic extremism which much be tackled. Although judging by what was said in that video I posted it seems that only the bombing and knifing is extreme, the rest of it seems mainstream islam.

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by HoratioTarr on Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:42 pm

eddie wrote:One of my best friend's is Indian. She is an ex-Hindu (I say ex because she stopped believing in anything when her two year old daughter died horribly in a private nursery) and she has told me that she can experience "feelings of discomfort" just after attacks even though she's not Muslim and dresses as a westerner.
I asked her if it was actual incidents or her own paranoia because she was Indian. This woman is highly educated let me tell you and she said "I think it's mainly paranoia but feelings are so heightened I can be a little worried when I'm on the tube travelling to London because I do feel apologetic for my colouring"

That made me feel really sad for her actually. I adore that woman and to think she feels that way makes me feel despair. She understands people's reactions though - and that makes me feel even sadder.

A similar thing happens on here when certain people keep banging on about what the British did centuries ago. As though we've all got to atone for it.

I really do sympathise for anyone who feels like this, it's horrible and shouldn't be. But the majority of people won't be thinking that way. It's only a minority that are nasty and they're usually nasty inside anyway.
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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:05 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
eddie wrote:One of my best friend's is Indian. She is an ex-Hindu (I say ex because she stopped believing in anything when her two year old daughter died horribly in a private nursery) and she has told me that she can experience "feelings of discomfort" just after attacks even though she's not Muslim and dresses as a westerner.
I asked her if it was actual incidents or her own paranoia because she was Indian. This woman is highly educated let me tell you and she said "I think it's mainly paranoia but feelings are so heightened I can be a little worried when I'm on the tube travelling to London because I do feel apologetic for my colouring"

That made me feel really sad for her actually. I adore that woman and to think she feels that way makes me feel despair. She understands people's reactions though - and that makes me feel even sadder.

A similar  thing happens on here when certain people keep banging on about what the British did centuries ago.  As though we've all got to atone for it.  

I really do sympathise for anyone who feels like this, it's horrible and shouldn't be.  But the majority of people won't be thinking that way.  It's only a minority that are nasty and they're usually nasty inside anyway.

You're talking about me and where do you get this centuries ago thing from???? it's just decades not even half a century yet for some places. This is also like i say British propaganda pretending Off it was Olden days NO it was in YOUR lifetime

1970's for Australia to kick the British aristocracy off aboriginal land and the Queen then sacked the Prime minister that did it.
You were still keeping aboriginal remains in museums like they were stuffed animals into this millennium.

places like Jamaica well into the 1980's the majority of money generated from the sugar production (the major export of the nation ) was funneled to the Uk. and then when you 'gave' them the rights back, you 'lent' them a bunch of money at ridiculously high interest that they are still not free from.
http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/jamaica-owed-%C2%A322-trillion-slavery-reparations
If the Uk paid reparation Jamaica would be well in front even if it just wrote off a lot of foreign debt it holds from ex colonies..


AND the big things is ADMITTING IT!!! stop teaching that Britain did people a favor, it is like the Nazis saying they did Jews a favor cause they have had so much political sympathy as a result of the holocaust Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

AND YES as a nation, Australians are paying reparation are trying to have reconciliation with aboriginals, to then see British people act like they where in the right and call the time the grand age of Britain and wish for it's return, when they oppressed all Australians and held aboriginals people to be rightless animals is completely appalling. Like the rednecks in the USA supporting the KKK.



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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:12 am

And I've been to Shisha joints, had Confucian banquets, lunar new year banquets, been to prayers in a mosque, spent a week in Buddhist temple, been to a traditional Samoan wedding, Indian festival of colours with out leaving Australia and was hardly the only white person at any of those events Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by nicko on Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:35 pm

Bully for you !
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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:39 pm

veya_victaous wrote:And I've been to Shisha joints, had Confucian banquets, lunar new year banquets, been to prayers in a mosque, spent a week in Buddhist temple, been to a traditional Samoan wedding, Indian festival of colours with out leaving Australia and was hardly the only white person at any of those events Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

You're a bloke. I can guarantee I wouldn't be allowed in my local mosque to hunker down and pray among the men. As for your other jaunts, so what? I can list a string of similar things I've done. As usual you're trying to fudge the issue by over egging the pudding.

BTW...Isn't the toffee apple the best flavour ever?
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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:40 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

A similar  thing happens on here when certain people keep banging on about what the British did centuries ago.  As though we've all got to atone for it.  

I really do sympathise for anyone who feels like this, it's horrible and shouldn't be.  But the majority of people won't be thinking that way.  It's only a minority that are nasty and they're usually nasty inside anyway.

You're talking about me and where do you get this centuries ago thing from???? it's just decades not even half a century yet for some places. This is also like i say British propaganda pretending Off it was Olden days NO it was in YOUR lifetime

1970's for Australia to kick the British aristocracy off aboriginal land and the Queen then sacked the Prime minister that did it.
You were still keeping aboriginal remains in museums like they were stuffed animals into this millennium.

places like Jamaica well into the 1980's the majority of money generated from the sugar production (the major export of the nation ) was funneled to the Uk. and then when you 'gave' them the rights back, you 'lent' them a bunch of money at ridiculously high interest that they are still not free from.
http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/jamaica-owed-%C2%A322-trillion-slavery-reparations
If the Uk paid reparation Jamaica would be well in front even if it just wrote off a lot of foreign debt it holds from ex colonies..


AND the big things is ADMITTING IT!!! stop teaching that Britain did people a favor, it is like the Nazis saying they did Jews a favor cause they have had so much political sympathy as a result of the holocaust  Evil or Very Mad  Evil or Very Mad  Evil or Very Mad  Evil or Very Mad  Evil or Very Mad

AND YES as a nation, Australians are paying reparation are trying to have reconciliation with aboriginals,  to then see British people act like they where in the right and call the time the grand age of Britain and wish for it's return, when they oppressed all Australians and held aboriginals people to be rightless animals is completely appalling. Like the rednecks in the USA supporting the KKK.



No, I wasn't talking about you, actually. But you obviously feel that way and have jumped in on the defence.
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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by nicko on Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:08 pm

Veya, are you an Aboriginal Muslim?
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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Lord Foul on Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:27 pm

veya now looks stupid...




Kurdish security boss:
UK terror laws 'too soft'

Lahur Talabany tells Sky News that the UK must arrest anyone posing a terror threat - not wait until they carry out an attack.

12:45, UK, Wednesday 07 June 2017
Lahur Talabany heads the Kurdish counter-terrorism unit
Video: IS will attack the West, whether or not you attack them

By Stuart Ramsay, Chief Correspondent

Iraq's leading security boss has warned that counter-terror laws in Britain and Europe are "too soft".

Lahur Talabany, the head of Kurdish counter terrorism and a key ally of western agencies, also said that many more attacks like those in London and Manchester are likely as Islamic State loses ground in Iraq.

He said it is impossible to watch 3-4,000 suspects 24 hours a day.

Mr Talabany has been advising Europe and in particular Britain, where he grew up, for years, passing on vital information and intelligence.
Video: Islamic State's horror in Mosul far from over

"What we achieve here will keep people in London safe," he told me.

Mr Talabany has been on the frontline fighting Islamic State since they first pushed into Iraq in 2014. His Counter Terror Group, an elite special forces unit, oversaw the defence of Kurdistan alongside the country's Peshmerga army.

We first met hiding behind a berm under fire from IS, also known as ISIS and ISIL.

Now working most of the time directing the security services, he is adamant that there have to be changes in the way terror laws in the UK and Europe are implemented.

"We've said from the beginning that ISIS would be a global problem," he said.

"These types of attacks were to be expected in London and other countries. People shouldn't be surprised.
Police officers and members of the emergency services attend to a person injured in an apparent terror attack on London Bridge in central London on June 3, 2017
Image: Emergency services at the scene of the attack in the London Bridge area

"The laws should be changed in Europe.

"It is not for me to say but the laws are too soft on some of these people that go and join the ranks of ISIL and they are allowed to come back into the country and run around freely and they put them on the watch.

"You cannot put 3-4,000 people on the watch 24 hours a day. So I think first they need to retake a look at some of the laws that exist in Europe.

"If we are suspicious of somebody that poses a threat for the stability of this region - then we have to arrest them and until we are 100 per cent sure, these people should not get out, to be honest with you.

"It is more important to lock one guy up and save thousands of lives, than allow this guy to run around freely and give them a chance to murder innocent people.

"As I said, the laws are too soft in Europe. I believe there needs to be tougher laws at least on people who have been exposed to these kind of war zones or these kind of groups.

"I know some are being watched carefully but it seems they are not being watched too carefully if they are getting away with attacks like they are."
22 people died in the Manchester attack
Video: Daughters, wives, friends - victims of the Manchester attack

He says that foreign fighters who have been to Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan will "easily" find their way into joining extremist groups like IS when they go home and he is convinced that new low-tech terrorism like driving trucks into people and stabbing them will rise.

"They are on the defensive, where two years ago they were on offensive they looked very attractive, they had a good media campaign going.

"Things are going the other way now, they are on the defensive they losing territory so they need other means to keep themselves going and to keep themselves alive.

"What happened in London and Manchester and other places - this is the kind of stuff they will be looking for from now on."
Floral tributes lay in Potters Fields Park following the June 3rd terror attack on June 6, 2017 in London, England. Seven people were killed and at least 48 injured in terror attacks on London Bridge and Borough Market on June 3rd. Three attackers were shot dead by armed police. (Photo by Jack Taylor/Getty Images)
Image: Flowers in Potters Fields Park following the 3 June attack in London

He said it makes no difference that the UK is a country involved in the fight in Iraq and Syria against IS, adding that the anti-western rhetoric of Islamic State isn't linked to the battles here, but rather in just attacking western society.

"I think it is very important that the west is here trying to finish these guys off. Because if they don't ISIL will grow and they will grow in the UK and in larger numbers.

"It is a very important fight and that will keep people safe in London. What we achieve here will keep people safe in London."

and...after all ...HE should know, and certainly knows much better than veya about this particular subject.

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:11 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Question

"Hostage taking"  ???

Where was this  ???

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/06/hostage-taker-australia-had-acquitted-plotting-terror-attack/

when you mum gets back ask her to read it to you, until then just look at the pictures.

Laughing

HERE we have that totally cluelss fuckwit DYKbrain can't even comprehend his own reference...

The incident was an ISIS sympathiser who died in a siege with police, after already murdering one person..
I.e.  there was no "hostage" per se..

And fuckwit Deano thinks he's so clever..

After his total failure with the Election results, Deano is now the stupidest person on NewsFix..
Tommy can rest easy now --  Deano has officially taken that crown.

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Re: #LondonBridge terrorist attack: 'Time to admit Western anti-terrorism policy isn't working'

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:17 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/06/hostage-taker-australia-had-acquitted-plotting-terror-attack/

when you mum gets back ask her to read it to you, until then just look at the pictures.

Laughing

HERE we have that totally cluelss fuckwit DYKbrain can't even comprehend his own reference...

The incident was an ISIS sympathiser who died in a siege with police, after already murdering one person..
I.e.  there was no "hostage" per se..

And fuckwit Deano thinks he's so clever..

After his total failure with the Election results, Deano is now the stupidest person on NewsFix..
Tommy can rest easy now --  Deano has officially taken that crown.


A gunman who killed a man and took a woman hostage before dying in a police shootout had been acquitted of plotting a terror attack at a Sydney army base years earlier, police said on Tuesday. Three police officers were wounded.



Actually Wolf, it seem's you have taken the crown and clearly suffer from Ostrich Parasitic Syndrome:



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