Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

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Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Thorin on Sun May 28, 2017 1:57 pm

Theresa May’s social care policy is seen as not “fair” by likely Tory voters who took part in the latest HuffPost UK-Edelman general election focus group.

The prime minister on Monday performed an unprecedented u-turn when she said the Conservative Party would introduce a cap on how much people had to pay for care.

Her manifesto, released just four days earlier, did not include a cap. The original policy had been branded a “dementia tax” by critics.

The nine former Lib Dem voters in the traditionally three-way marginal of Watford, all of whom said they planned to vote Tory on June 8, raised the social care policy when asked what had caught their eye so far during the campaign


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/tory-voters-in-huffpost-uk-edelman-focus-group-say-theresa-mays-social-care-policy-is-not-fair_uk_59283793e4b01b9a59384e9d?utm_hp_ref=uk



The more I read into this social care plan, the more I approve of it.
Sorry many people claim its unfair?

Sorry based on what, that people end up paying for the care they receive?

That where through inheritance someone can stand to benefit off nothing that have done but purely by being a relative? Sorry but how is that fair when its based on favoritism? Would not be the fair thing to do but have the house sold to pay for the cost of all those who need care? Not benefit someone through nothing more than blood ties, Where its a benefit and privilege from what would feel like to them winning the lottery?

If people can afford to pay for their care, then they should and if this means using capital of assets then so be it. This then helps offset the cost for those who cannot afford to pay and that the system helps them out. Every single person is born into a system that has to pay more out, than what we will ever hope to put back into the system. So i am sorry, those bitching and whining here are doing so based off selfish reasons. Ones that want to benefit their own family and not the nation. When it is the nation that constantly forks out for them their whole life.

Can someone explain to me why we should not pay our own due when we have the ability to do so? So lets talk about fairness. How is it fair when people can pay, but instead refuse to do so, because they want to selfishly give their property to family and not the system? The only thing unfair, is how utterly selfish society has become.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun May 28, 2017 2:30 pm

That's what I've been saying - it's largely the relatives who lose out when the person dies. It's not their house, it belongs to the person who needs care, so it could be said that they have no right to the house or the value of it.

On the other hand, it seems a little unfair on those who have bothered to save up or who paid for a house in order to provide for their children later on.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Thorin on Sun May 28, 2017 2:34 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:That's what I've been saying - it's largely the relatives who lose out when the person dies. It's not their house, it belongs to the person who needs care, so it could be said that they have no right to the house or the value of it.

On the other hand, it seems a little unfair on those who have bothered to save up or who paid for a house in order to provide for their children later on.

How is the later unfair Rags? Maybe felt so by the individuals involved They have chosen to selfishly look to their needs and not the nation Rags. The nation will still fork out far more than most put back into the system. The question to ask is why are they looking to save for others (their kin), when they achieved their goals. By offering up an olive branch to their kin with inheritance. Talk about taking away responsibility for people to work hard and have goals. Its an utter selfish outlook, especially when we are reliant on  the system to pay for many of our needs.

Completely on board with your first point

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun May 28, 2017 3:02 pm

Thorin wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:That's what I've been saying - it's largely the relatives who lose out when the person dies. It's not their house, it belongs to the person who needs care, so it could be said that they have no right to the house or the value of it.

On the other hand, it seems a little unfair on those who have bothered to save up or who paid for a house in order to provide for their children later on.

How is the later unfair Rags? Maybe felt so by the individuals involved They have chosen to selfishly look to their needs and not the nation Rags. The nation will still fork out far more than most put back into the system. The question to ask is why are they looking to save for others (their kin), when they achieved their goals. By offering up an olive branch to their kin with inheritance. Talk about taking away responsibility for people to work hard and have goals. Its an utter selfish outlook, especially when we are reliant on  the system to pay for many of our needs.

Completely on board with your first point

I suppose those who never bothered to save, or didn't bother to work and had their rent paid via benefits, still get care - all paid for by the tax payers. Perhaps they spent all their money on relatives earlier on, so they don't have any savings or property by the time they need care.

I kind of agree with you though. I've seen the kind of fallout which can happen with inheritance, and sometimes I think it's a lot easier if nobody has any expectations of inheriting anything.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Angry Andy on Sun May 28, 2017 3:21 pm

So you work all your life. Earn money, pay tax and NI almall  your life to fund the NHS and social care, save the rest. That money belongs to the family. NOT the government, payable to them upon death. That money has already born tax.
How do you think the fabulously wealthy, landowners and owners of huge eatates still have them?
If Thorin thinks it is good policy, then it is sure to be a real vote loser. 
Its a terrible idea.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun May 28, 2017 3:47 pm

Angry Andy wrote:So you work all your life. Earn money, pay tax and NI almall  your life to fund the NHS and social care, save the rest. That money belongs to the family. NOT the government, payable to them upon death. That money has already born tax.
How do you think the fabulously wealthy, landowners and owners of huge eatates still have them?
If Thorin thinks it is good policy, then it is sure to be a real vote loser. 
Its a terrible idea.

Technically, the money belongs to the person who earned it or saved it, not their family. If someone is able to pay for a service, should they not pay?

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Angry Andy on Sun May 28, 2017 4:25 pm

You pay National INSURANCE all your working life to cover the NHS and health concerns. Which is all medical needs. As far as I know, denentia is still an illness. Perhaps the tories will classify cancer and heart disease as non treatable on the NHS and will privatize that too.
You have already paid tax to buy your property, is it just wrong to want to grab most of the money from it's  sale after death.

It's  a real vote loser for the tories.
The young hate it.
Their parents and grandparents hate it.
Keep touting it, that way Labour have a good chance.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Thorin on Sun May 28, 2017 5:22 pm

Angry Andy wrote:You pay National INSURANCE all your working life to cover the NHS and health concerns. Which is all medical needs. As far as I know, denentia is still an illness. Perhaps the tories will classify cancer and heart disease as non treatable on the NHS and will privatize that too.
You have already paid tax to buy your property, is it just wrong to want to grab most of the money from it's  sale after death.

It's  a real vote loser for the tories.
The young hate it.
Their parents and grandparents hate it.
Keep touting it, that way Labour have a good chance.

So your view is one of being selfish.

We can no longer cope with spiraling costs and there is no reason where people can afford to pay that they should not pay for care. You seem to just want to abuse the rich all the time and have them pay for everyone else. We are not also talking about pay the costs for treatment, but for costs in care.

I am not surprised people hate it, that is what happens when people are selfish

Keep living the pipe dream about Labour

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Thorin on Sun May 28, 2017 5:36 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thorin wrote:

How is the later unfair Rags? Maybe felt so by the individuals involved They have chosen to selfishly look to their needs and not the nation Rags. The nation will still fork out far more than most put back into the system. The question to ask is why are they looking to save for others (their kin), when they achieved their goals. By offering up an olive branch to their kin with inheritance. Talk about taking away responsibility for people to work hard and have goals. Its an utter selfish outlook, especially when we are reliant on  the system to pay for many of our needs.

Completely on board with your first point

I suppose those who never bothered to save, or didn't bother to work and had their rent paid via benefits, still get care - all paid for by the tax payers. Perhaps they spent all their money on relatives earlier on, so they don't have any savings or property by the time they need care.

I kind of agree with you though. I've seen the kind of fallout which can happen with inheritance, and sometimes I think it's a lot easier if nobody has any expectations of inheriting anything.

Spot on Rags.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Angry Andy on Sun May 28, 2017 6:24 pm

The solution. Increase  NI to 15% on earnings over £26000, the national average.
Those on less pay no more.
Those earning a little over pay a little more. Those on much more pay more. But it is a flat % increase so it is fair.
No idea how much it would raise, but it ought to cover the ill thought out dementia tax.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Thorin on Sun May 28, 2017 6:31 pm

Angry Andy wrote:The solution. Increase  NI to 15% on earnings over £26000, the national average.
Those on less pay no more.
Those earning a little over pay a little more. Those on much more pay more. But it is a flat % increase so it is fair.
No idea how much it would raise, but it ought to cover the ill thought out dementia tax.


So you want everyone else but those who can afford to pay for care costs.

Why?

The solution is people pay for costs, when they can afford to do so

Plus I see no evidence how the above rise will cover costs.

Lets see a breakdown

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Angry Andy on Sun May 28, 2017 6:40 pm

So you want people who are ill to pay for their illness.
That is the American model.
A privatized NHS.
The conservatives hidden manifesto promise.
That will be a popular votewinner.
Not.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Thorin on Sun May 28, 2017 6:43 pm

Angry Andy wrote:So you want people who are ill to pay for their illness.
That is the American model.
A privatized NHS.
The conservatives hidden manifesto promise.
That will be a popular votewinner.
Not.


How would they be paying for their illness?

That is covered by the NHS

What a stupid point

This is about the cost for "care" not treatments.

Now again answer me why people should not pay for their care costs, when they can afford to do so?

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun May 28, 2017 7:09 pm

Angry Andy wrote:So you want people who are ill to pay for their illness.
That is the American model.
A privatized NHS.
The conservatives hidden manifesto promise.
That will be a popular votewinner.
Not.

But you want a lot of people to pay more in NI so the relatives of other people can inherit a nice load of dosh.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Angry Andy on Sun May 28, 2017 7:35 pm

Thorin wrote:
Angry Andy wrote:So you want people who are ill to pay for their illness.
That is the American model.
A privatized NHS.
The conservatives hidden manifesto promise.
That will be a popular votewinner.
Not.


How would they be paying for their illness?

That is covered by the NHS

What a stupid point

This is about the cost for "care" not treatments.

Now again answer me why people should not pay for their care costs, when they can afford to do so?
So dementia isn't  an illness covered by the NHS?

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Angry Andy on Sun May 28, 2017 7:36 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Angry Andy wrote:So you want people who are ill to pay for their illness.
That is the American model.
A privatized NHS.
The conservatives hidden manifesto promise.
That will be a popular votewinner.
Not.

But you want a lot of people to pay more in NI so the relatives of other people can inherit a nice load of dosh.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Thorin on Sun May 28, 2017 7:37 pm

Angry Andy wrote:
Thorin wrote:


How would they be paying for their illness?

That is covered by the NHS

What a stupid point

This is about the cost for "care" not treatments.

Now again answer me why people should not pay for their care costs, when they can afford to do so?
So dementia isn't  an illness covered by the NHS?

Eh?

Where did I claim the above?

So again you avoid answering the questions

Try again

Now again answer me why people should not pay for their care costs, when they can afford to do so?

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Angry Andy on Sun May 28, 2017 7:38 pm

If you have kids, or live in a homw rhat has been in the family for generations,  would YOU be prepared to lose it to pay for your own illness, knowing your partner and family will lose their home.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Thorin on Sun May 28, 2017 7:42 pm

Angry Andy wrote:If you have kids, or live in a homw rhat has been in the family for generations,  would YOU be prepared to lose it to pay for your own illness, knowing your partner and family will lose their home.

If I needed care and could afford to pay, then I should pay.

The partner is not going to lose out, no idea where you get that crap from

As to the children, well I am sure the memory of me, is more important than money is to them.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun May 28, 2017 7:42 pm

Angry Andy wrote:If you have kids, or live in a homw rhat has been in the family for generations,  would YOU be prepared to lose it to pay for your own illness, knowing your partner and family will lose their home.

I think it would be tough if a house has been in the family for generations. However, unless there's only one beneficiary of a Will, the house would probably be sold anyway and the money split.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun May 28, 2017 7:43 pm

What kind of care are we talking about here anyway? Is it total care, or the sort where a person could look after themselves but finds it difficult? Lots of people have a home help or a carer, but they pay for them themselves anyway. When can you get one which you don't have to pay for?

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by HoratioTarr on Mon May 29, 2017 10:44 am

People are living longer, they say. Well, that's true because of a variety of factors. But one factor is also that people are being kept alive way beyond their natural span. I'm currently experiencing this with my FIL. He has advanced Parkinsons, dementia with Lewy Bodies, doubly incontinent, being fed through a percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy (PEG) directly through his abdomen, crying in pain because Parkinson's affects the muscles and joints, emaciated, choking on even the softest foods, including water. Wracked with Diabetes. The other day we visited he was smothered in his own shit, and nobody had cleaned him up. Items are being taken by other dementia patients from his room because they are allowed to wander the nursing home.

Before he got into this state, he stopped eating and drinking. He also got sepsis. But he was pumped full of antibiotics and fed through a tube. He's 83.

I do believe that it was nature's way to stop his appetite, and that without medical intervention, he'd be gone by now and his suffering over.

I can't tell you what torture this is to watch.
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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by nicko on Mon May 29, 2017 1:03 pm

+1
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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Mon May 29, 2017 5:13 pm



Todays "Austerity budgets" are a total lie...

"Balancing the budget" is a Conservative fallacy..

IF the conservative governments of the world were in any way genuine in their stated aims, the 'gross national debts' of all developed nations would have been significantly reduced over recent years..


The REAL reason for recent cuts to government spending, along with the demonizing and targetting of average workers, the poor, retirees and pensioners, and especially the disabled, has been to enable massive tax cuts for corporations and millionaires.

Pushed along by the eternal lie that big businesses "create jobs" and "power the economy" whereas the simple truth is that the big business sector has actually shed over a third of its workforce over recent years, while paying less to those left (hence the stagnating wages of the workforces in most western economies..).

Most new jobs in recent times have been created among small businesses, especially the self employed and sole traders, with more part-time and casual positions replacing full-time workers..


As long as Conservative governments are dominated by the ever-shrinking "big business" sector, the more they will be attacking health, welfare and education spending, while sucking up to their parasitic corporate bosses...          

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Angry Andy on Mon May 29, 2017 5:26 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:People are living longer, they say.   Well, that's true because of a variety of factors.    But one factor is also that people are being kept alive way beyond their natural span.    I'm currently experiencing this with my FIL.   He has advanced Parkinsons, dementia with Lewy Bodies, doubly incontinent, being fed through a percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy (PEG) directly through his abdomen, crying in pain because Parkinson's affects the muscles and joints, emaciated, choking on even the softest foods, including water.  Wracked with Diabetes.  The other day we visited he was smothered in his own shit, and nobody had cleaned him up.  Items are being taken by other dementia patients from his room because they are allowed to wander the nursing home.  

Before he got into this state, he stopped eating and drinking.   He also got sepsis.  But he was pumped full of antibiotics and fed through a tube.  He's 83.  

I do believe that it was nature's way to stop his appetite, and that without medical intervention, he'd be gone by now and his suffering over.

I can't tell you what torture this is to watch.
Genuine sympathy HT. Been there, done it, got 3 tee shirts. A slow and bleak way to fade away.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Original Quill on Mon May 29, 2017 6:17 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Todays "Austerity budgets" are a total lie...

"Balancing the budget" is a Conservative fallacy..

IF the conservative governments of the world were in any way genuine in their stated aims, the 'gross national debts' of all developed nations would have been significantly reduced over recent years..


The REAL reason for recent cuts to government spending, along with the demonizing and targetting of average workers, the poor, retirees and pensioners, and especially the disabled, has been to enable massive tax cuts for corporations and millionaires.

Pushed along by the eternal lie that big businesses "create jobs" and "power the economy" whereas the simple truth is that the big business sector has actually shed over a third of its workforce over recent years, while paying less to those left (hence the stagnating wages of the workforces in most western economies..).

Most new jobs in recent times have been created among small businesses, especially the self employed and sole traders, with more part-time and casual positions replacing full-time workers..


As long as Conservative governments are dominated by the ever-shrinking "big business" sector, the more they will be attacking health, welfare and education spending, while sucking up to their parasitic corporate bosses...          

alien for this post.  

Not only is increased employment (at today's wages) bad for big business, but it turns out that wars are good for it.  An energetic war is not only profitable for business in and of itself, but it opens up new markets and resources for a greedy and ever-expanding mercantile class.

Also, consider that dead soldiers may well be a way for big business to reduce and dispose of the unemployed...who knows?  Better to be in Arlington Cemetery, at minimal cost, then to be joining a trade union, and forcing the cost of production upwards.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by The Devil, You Know on Tue May 30, 2017 8:45 am

Raggamuffin wrote:That's what I've been saying - it's largely the relatives who lose out when the person dies. It's not their house, it belongs to the person who needs care, so it could be said that they have no right to the house or the value of it.

On the other hand, it seems a little unfair on those who have bothered to save up or who paid for a house in order to provide for their children later on.
what the left in their desperate hand wringing of virtue signalling dont mention is that now people have to sell their hoses when they are alive to pay for care costs.
this will mean at least they dont have to be sold to cover part of the costs until they are dead.

Oh and lets not forget it is labour policy to increase inheritance tax, ensuring that relatives receive even less than now.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by The Devil, You Know on Tue May 30, 2017 8:47 am

Angry Andy wrote:So you work all your life. Earn money, pay tax and NI almall  your life to fund the NHS and social care, save the rest. That money belongs to the family. NOT the government, payable to them upon death. That money has already born tax.
How do you think the fabulously wealthy, landowners and owners of huge eatates still have them?
If Thorin thinks it is good policy, then it is sure to be a real vote loser. 
Its a terrible idea.
so why aren't you up in arms about corbyns policy to increase inheritance tax?

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by The Devil, You Know on Tue May 30, 2017 8:50 am

Angry Andy wrote:If you have kids, or live in a homw rhat has been in the family for generations,  would YOU be prepared to lose it to pay for your own illness, knowing your partner and family will lose their home.
they lose their home now and far more down to the last £32000 I believe. this measure ensure at least £100000 is left.

they wont get even that under corbyns inheritance tax increases.

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by The Devil, You Know on Tue May 30, 2017 8:57 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Todays "Austerity budgets" are a total lie...

"Balancing the budget" is a Conservative fallacy..

IF the conservative governments of the world were in any way genuine in their stated aims, the 'gross national debts' of all developed nations would have been significantly reduced over recent years..


The REAL reason for recent cuts to government spending, along with the demonizing and targetting of average workers, the poor, retirees and pensioners, and especially the disabled, has been to enable massive tax cuts for corporations and millionaires.

Pushed along by the eternal lie that big businesses "create jobs" and "power the economy" whereas the simple truth is that the big business sector has actually shed over a third of its workforce over recent years, while paying less to those left (hence the stagnating wages of the workforces in most western economies..).

Most new jobs in recent times have been created among small businesses, especially the self employed and sole traders, with more part-time and casual positions replacing full-time workers..


As long as Conservative governments are dominated by the ever-shrinking "big business" sector, the more they will be attacking health, welfare and education spending, while sucking up to their parasitic corporate bosses...          
you are obviously still living with your parents and have never had a job.
It is business that creates jobs that create the tax we pay that governments spend.
It is wealth creators that create those jobs. Government can create jobs in government services, but by and large they do not create real money, they add to the tax burden.
Natural resources are not a source of income for governments, the taxes applied to the business's that extract them are.
those business's have to invest heavily in order to extract any profit and that profit is taxed.

your ideal governmental system is Venezuela, a country that should in theory be the richest in south america, but after years of socialism is now a basket case where the poor are poorer than when it took over and being crushed to death by the benevolent governments storm troopers.


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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by The Devil, You Know on Tue May 30, 2017 9:00 am

Original Quill wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Todays "Austerity budgets" are a total lie...

"Balancing the budget" is a Conservative fallacy..

IF the conservative governments of the world were in any way genuine in their stated aims, the 'gross national debts' of all developed nations would have been significantly reduced over recent years..


The REAL reason for recent cuts to government spending, along with the demonizing and targetting of average workers, the poor, retirees and pensioners, and especially the disabled, has been to enable massive tax cuts for corporations and millionaires.

Pushed along by the eternal lie that big businesses "create jobs" and "power the economy" whereas the simple truth is that the big business sector has actually shed over a third of its workforce over recent years, while paying less to those left (hence the stagnating wages of the workforces in most western economies..).

Most new jobs in recent times have been created among small businesses, especially the self employed and sole traders, with more part-time and casual positions replacing full-time workers..


As long as Conservative governments are dominated by the ever-shrinking "big business" sector, the more they will be attacking health, welfare and education spending, while sucking up to their parasitic corporate bosses...          

alien for this post.  

Not only is increased employment (at today's wages) bad for big business, but it turns out that wars are good for it.  An energetic war is not only profitable for business in and of itself, but it opens up new markets and resources for a greedy and ever-expanding mercantile class.

Also, consider that dead soldiers may well be a way for big business to reduce and dispose of the unemployed...who knows?  Better to be in Arlington Cemetery, at minimal cost, then to be joining a trade union, and forcing the cost of production upwards.
well you are right about wage costs forcing prices up.
You dont make people prosper by making sure they are all "have nots"

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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by HoratioTarr on Tue May 30, 2017 2:07 pm

Angry Andy wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:People are living longer, they say.   Well, that's true because of a variety of factors.    But one factor is also that people are being kept alive way beyond their natural span.    I'm currently experiencing this with my FIL.   He has advanced Parkinsons, dementia with Lewy Bodies, doubly incontinent, being fed through a percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy (PEG) directly through his abdomen, crying in pain because Parkinson's affects the muscles and joints, emaciated, choking on even the softest foods, including water.  Wracked with Diabetes.  The other day we visited he was smothered in his own shit, and nobody had cleaned him up.  Items are being taken by other dementia patients from his room because they are allowed to wander the nursing home.  

Before he got into this state, he stopped eating and drinking.   He also got sepsis.  But he was pumped full of antibiotics and fed through a tube.  He's 83.  

I do believe that it was nature's way to stop his appetite, and that without medical intervention, he'd be gone by now and his suffering over.

I can't tell you what torture this is to watch.
Genuine sympathy HT. Been there, done it, got 3 tee shirts. A slow and bleak way to fade away.

Thank you. I'm off up to see him later on. Dreading it.
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Re: Tory Voters In HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Say Theresa May’s Social Care Policy Is ‘Not Fair’

Post by Original Quill on Tue May 30, 2017 6:29 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

alien for this post.  

Not only is increased employment (at today's wages) bad for big business, but it turns out that wars are good for it.  An energetic war is not only profitable for business in and of itself, but it opens up new markets and resources for a greedy and ever-expanding mercantile class.

Also, consider that dead soldiers may well be a way for big business to reduce and dispose of the unemployed...who knows?  Better to be in Arlington Cemetery, at minimal cost, then to be joining a trade union, and forcing the cost of production upwards.
well you are right about wage costs forcing prices up.
You dont make people prosper by making sure they are all "have nots"

But think of the bigger picture: it means that trickle-down economics doesn't work. Give the wealthy big tax breaks, they just go to Taiwan and Vietnam to invest in low-cost labor. That's the reason why modern, western nations are falling behind.

War is not the answer. Sure, we kill off all the ersatz unemployed, but we also shrink our own capacity to be strong. The only answer is a managed economy, and you know what that means? Socialism.

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