THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

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THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by sassy on Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:39 am


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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:12 am



"TORY (read 'Conservative'..) Economic competence" ???

Now, that really is "a contradiction in terms"..

In Britain, the USA and Australia, negative economic indicators such as unemployment rates, wage stagnation, housing unaffordability and homelessness, inflationary pressures, taxation inequalities and shortfalls, illiteracy rates, have all been higher under 'conservative leaning' governments.

THAT is a historical fact..   Despite those constant yet fallacious claims from the Tories/Repub's/Lib's that they are "naturally" the better economic managers...

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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:12 pm

Well they make the rich people richer, If that is all you care about Cool Cool Cool Cool

Conservative voting make sense if you very rich and have no heart(Empathy)
Or your too old and your brain has decayed so you become easily tricked by a dude promising to keep it the same, or 'make it what is was again' when progressive have managed to institute advancement..
I don't under stand why the poor and uneducated vote for them so often? it is almost like hill shepherds like being under the lash Suspect Suspect

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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by Original Quill on Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:49 pm

Tories like to cultivate the image of economic competence, but what they really mean is a return to primitivism.  The unregulated market is the most primitive form of exchange there is.  It is also the most easily corruptible.  What tories are competent in is the corruption part.

This is why they hate the term regulation.  They have been successful in selling the idea that regulation is unneeded restraint.  But, as George Lakoff points out, if you merely remind people that it means public protection you get an entirely different reaction.




See how easy that was?  Start substituting the term public protection for regulation, and ask people if they still feel the same way.

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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:38 pm

It was, of course, a Labour Chief Secretary to the Treasury who, after the 2010 General Election, left that poignant little note to his Tory-led Coalition successor, together with a record deficit and national indebtedness: "I'm sorry, but there's no money left..."
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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by The Devil, You Know on Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:48 pm

veya_victaous wrote:Well they make the rich people richer, If that is all you care about Cool Cool Cool Cool

Conservative voting make sense if you very rich and have no heart(Empathy)
Or your too old and your brain has decayed so you become easily tricked by a dude promising to keep it the same, or 'make it what is was again' when progressive have managed to institute advancement..
I don't under stand why the poor and uneducated vote for them so often? it is almost like hill shepherds like being under the lash Suspect Suspect  
the government has removed more people from tax altogether than labour has. it has brought down unemployment from over 8% to just over 4%
It has brought down the deficit from near £160billion a year to just over £60 billion
£13billion of which is money we borrow to give aid.
so if that is incompetence then lets have some more.

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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by The Devil, You Know on Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:53 pm

oh yes before the usual fellow travellers pop up and go record debt, just add up the deficits since labour were kicked out and add that to the debt labour left and you will find the figures tally.

Now labours answer as usual is to borrow our way out of debt so the deficit would be way beyond £160 billion a year and the debt would have tripled.


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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:42 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:oh yes before the usual fellow travellers pop up and go record debt, just add up the deficits since labour were kicked out and add that to the debt labour left and you will find the figures tally.

Now labours answer as usual is to borrow our way out of debt so the deficit would be way beyond £160 billion a year and the debt would have tripled.

jocolor

Britain's gov't debt is running at over 90% of your annual GDP...

That's more than three times higher than Australia..
And more than double that of Cuba.
Indeed, you're not that far behind Italy or Ireland..

And, the UK has fuckall natural resources left, to underwrite those debts.

And meanwhile, you apparently seem to think you know more about economics and business, going by one of your usual posting 'signatures' on here ?
Your ignorance shines through every time you get on here,  DYKface..        

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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by Original Quill on Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:27 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:oh yes before the usual fellow travellers pop up and go record debt, just add up the deficits since labour were kicked out and add that to the debt labour left and you will find the figures tally.

Now labours answer as usual is to borrow our way out of debt so the deficit would be way beyond £160 billion a year and the debt would have tripled.

I don't pretend to follow every detail of your politics from over here, but in general what produces debt are wars and war spending. For example, in a few minutes the USS Porter dropped $100-million worth of tomahawk missiles in to a Syrian cornfield, with nothing to show for it.

How many school lunches would that cover? The bids are much lower in labour's game.

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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:36 am

Original Quill wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:oh yes before the usual fellow travellers pop up and go record debt, just add up the deficits since labour were kicked out and add that to the debt labour left and you will find the figures tally.

Now labours answer as usual is to borrow our way out of debt so the deficit would be way beyond £160 billion a year and the debt would have tripled.

I don't pretend to follow every detail of your politics from over here, but in general what produces debt are wars and war spending.  For example, in a few minutes the USS Porter dropped $100-million worth of tomahawk missiles in to a Syrian cornfield, with nothing to show for it.  

How many school lunches would that cover?  The bids are much lower in labour's game.

Welfare benefits and tax credits were reckoned to have cost £217 billion in 2015/16, almost 12 per cent of GDP and about a third of total public spending.

This year's defence budget is a little over £45 billion...and that includes our large foreign aid bill.
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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by sassy on Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:27 am

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I don't pretend to follow every detail of your politics from over here, but in general what produces debt are wars and war spending.  For example, in a few minutes the USS Porter dropped $100-million worth of tomahawk missiles in to a Syrian cornfield, with nothing to show for it.  

How many school lunches would that cover?  The bids are much lower in labour's game.

Welfare benefits and tax credits were reckoned to have cost £217 billion in 2015/16, almost 12 per cent of GDP and about a third of total public spending.

This year's defence budget is a little over £45 billion...and that includes our large foreign aid bill.



Lets have accuracy shall we:

Main areas of Government Spending 2015

Public Pensions £150 billion
Sickness and disability £40bn
Old age pensions £107bn
National Health Care + £133 billion
State Education + £90 billion
Secondary education – £25bn
University education – £11bn
local education spending – £48bn
Defence + £46 billion
Social Security + £110 billion
State Protection + £30 billion
Transport + £20 billion
Railway – £5.2bn
Roads – £3bn
Local transport – £9bn
General Government + £14 billion
Executive and legislative – £5.9bn
Other Public Services + £86 billion
Social housing – £1.2bn
Waste management – £9bn
Public Sector Interest + £52 billion

Cost of EU

Gross payment to EU – £17.2bn
Net payment to EU – £8.6bn
FT – EU cost

Total Spending = £731 billion

Source: UK Public Spending
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/142/economics/what-does-the-government-spend-its-money-on/



UK National Debt


The UK national debt is the total amount of money the British government owes to the private sector and other purchasers of UK gilts.

In January 2017 UK Public sector net debt is £1,682.8 billion equivalent to 85.3% of GDP
Source: [1. ONS public sector finances,- HF6X] (page updated October 22nd 2016)



Source: ONS debt as % of GDP – HF6X | PUSF – public sector finances at ONS

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/



We are in more debt than we have ever been and they have only just got the borrowing down some..



Basically, Tory supporters, mouth open, big spoon of Tory lies, in it goes, swallow, mouth close, pat on head. forelock tug lol






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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:18 pm

sassy wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Welfare benefits and tax credits were reckoned to have cost £217 billion in 2015/16, almost 12 per cent of GDP and about a third of total public spending.

This year's defence budget is a little over £45 billion...and that includes our large foreign aid bill.



Lets have accuracy shall we:

Main areas of Government Spending 2015

   Public Pensions       £150 billion
       Sickness and disability £40bn
       Old age pensions £107bn
   National Health Care       + £133 billion
   State Education       + £90 billion
       Secondary education – £25bn
       University education – £11bn
       local education spending – £48bn
   Defence       + £46 billion
   Social Security       + £110 billion
   State Protection       + £30 billion
   Transport       + £20 billion
       Railway – £5.2bn
       Roads – £3bn
       Local transport – £9bn
   General Government       + £14 billion
       Executive and legislative – £5.9bn
   Other Public Services       + £86 billion
       Social housing – £1.2bn
       Waste management – £9bn
   Public Sector Interest       + £52 billion

Cost of EU

   Gross payment to EU – £17.2bn
   Net payment to EU – £8.6bn
   FT – EU cost

Total Spending       = £731 billion

   Source: UK Public Spending
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/142/economics/what-does-the-government-spend-its-money-on/



UK National Debt


The UK national debt is the total amount of money the British government owes to the private sector and other purchasers of UK gilts.

   In January 2017 UK Public sector net debt is £1,682.8 billion equivalent to 85.3% of GDP
   Source: [1. ONS public sector finances,- HF6X] (page updated October 22nd 2016)



Source: ONS debt as % of GDP – HF6X | PUSF – public sector finances at ONS

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/



We are in more debt than we have ever been and they have only just got the borrowing down some..



Basically, Tory supporters, mouth open, big spoon of Tory lies, in it goes, swallow, mouth close, pat on head. forelock tug lol






I was not making a political point, I was responding directly to Quill's specific suggestion that "...in general what produces debt are wars and war spending..." by comparing defence spending in the UK with just two limited areas of welfare spending.

Had I felt any necessity to bring in roads, railways, waste management, education and everything else which is apparently in your hymn sheet for Labour activists I would have done so.

In the meantime I do not in need  a lesson in economics from you, nor am I interested in what you may think my own politics may be.

Basically, Labour supporters, mouth open, big spoon of Labour Party crap, in it goes, swallow, mouth close, pat on head. forelock tug lol

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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by sassy on Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:25 pm

No Fred, we never open mouth for crap, we are too busy questioning and holding people to account, and as we are not rule followers, forelock tugging is quite out of the question.  BTW, did you know May is not only restricting people who can attend her election meetings, but has banned journalists apart from a few cap doffers?  Look it up, another wannabe dictator.

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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:21 pm

Cool

Doesn't surprise me in tne least to see both DYKhead and Fred lying through their slimy Tory_loving teeth on here...

We have witnessed between them their lying about Britain's government spending,  national debt levels, and unemployment levels, just here on this thread alone today..

Typical weasel mouthed, disgusting little conservative grubs, the two of them --  I wouldn't even wipe my arse on the lies that those two pathetic and traitorous cowards spout on here !

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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:52 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Cool

Doesn't surprise me in tne least to see both DYKhead and Fred lying through their slimy Tory_loving teeth on here...

We have witnessed between them their lying about Britain's government spending,  national debt levels, and unemployment levels, just here on this thread alone today..

Typical weasel mouthed, disgusting little conservative grubs, the two of them --  I wouldn't even wipe my arse on the lies that those two pathetic and traitorous cowards spout on here !

Apart from the fact that I have not "lied" about anything of the  sort, I wouldn't credit you with sufficient intelligence even to find your arse let alone wipe it, you moronic knuckle-dragging outback pillock.


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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:18 pm

sassy wrote:No Fred, we never open mouth for crap, we are too busy questioning and holding people to account, and as we are not rule followers, forelock tugging is quite out of the question.  BTW, did you know May is not only restricting people who can attend her election meetings, but has banned journalists apart from a few cap doffers?  Look it up, another wannabe dictator.

"We never open our mouths for crap..." whines the holier-than-thou apologist for Momentum extremists.

Cap doffers? For sheer cap doffing, grovelling and boot licking one doesn't have to look much further than the nauseating bunch of toadies surrounding Corbyn during his carefully orchestrated photo opportunities.

At least after this election Labour will hopefully show the good sense to ditch him and elect someone of real ability such as Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis or Yvette Cooper as leader so that you can really hold the Tories to account and provide the sort of credible Opposition and alternative Government that the country needs.


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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by nicko on Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:00 pm

I have to agree with Fred, I am a Tory voter, but we do need a credible opposition, and with Corbyn we just haven't got one !
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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:50 pm

nicko wrote:I have to agree with Fred,   I am a Tory voter, but we do need a credible opposition,   and with Corbyn we just haven't got one  !

Apparently, there are signs that the Lib Dems might just be starting to get their act together after their largely undeserved, IMO, decimation following the end of the Coalition.

I hope so, because my suspicion is that Labour constituencies with able and talented MPs who are not prepared to kow-tow to the present shambolic far Left leadership might well find themselves under pressure to de-select them in favour of Momentum toadies, in spite of "assurances."

Entryism, bricks through windows, threats and harassment  - including rape threats and stalking  in the Social media - were past chosen methods of persuasion of those not deemed to be "on message", as I recall.

MPs like Iain Wright, Alan Johnson (would have made a good leader IMO), Andy Burnham, Michael Dugher, Fiona McTaggart, Giselda Stuart, Tom Blenkinsop....all have  said that they will not stand. I would not have thought that a party already so lacking in real talent, ability and experience can afford to lose such people.

Meanwhile, if rumours about the Lib Dems' likely choice of candidate in my constituency are correct, I may well find myself voting for him on June 8th...the first time I will have voted Lib Dem, although I did vote Liberal (like my old dad!) back in the old days (and no, not in Lloyd George's time, you cheeky bugger!)
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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by Original Quill on Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:21 pm

Fred M. wrote:I was not making a political point, I was responding directly to Quill's specific suggestion that "...in general what produces debt are wars and war spending..." by comparing defence spending in the UK with just two limited areas of welfare spending.

Nice of you to say so, now that we (US) are watching your backs.  We are bearing the burden of defense spending while y'all (UK) turn your aircraft carriers into flower pots.

The senseless war in Iraq cost us $17-trillion during the heyday, all under a conservative administration.  Compare the real costs...nothing in social welfare spending costs that much.

I repeat, just to make a cheap show in a Syrian cornfield, it cost us $100-million.  That's a burden you no longer have to bear, because you are no longer the policemen of the world.  Conservatives love the fireworks, but then turn around and complain about school lunches. If you were on your own, you would find that school lunches are by far the better bargain.

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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:34 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Fred M. wrote:I was not making a political point, I was responding directly to Quill's specific suggestion that "...in general what produces debt are wars and war spending..." by comparing defence spending in the UK with just two limited areas of welfare spending.

Nice of you to say so, now that we (US) are watching your backs.  We are bearing the burden of defense spending while y'all turn your aircraft carriers into flower pots.

The senseless war in Iraq cost us $17-trillion during the heyday, all under a conservative administration.  Compare the real costs...nothing in social welfare spending costs that much.

I repeat, just to make a cheap show in a Syrian cornfield, it cost us $100-million.  That's a burden you no longer have to bear, because you are no longer the policemen of the world.  If you were on your own, you would find that school lunches are far more reasonable.

I take your point Quill...and that senseless war in Iraq cost us quite a bit, too. And, of course, we have temporarily abandoned horticultural considerations and are building two new aircraft carriers. Our big problem is that we do not, er, have any aircraft to fly them from.

Yes, the beat up Syrian cornfield (do they grow corn in the place where your megabomb dropped?) may well just have been a nice, convenient spot for your impressive firework display...but did it not have at least some value in having proved conclusively that (a) the bloody thing apparently works and (b) warning IS that scurrying down holes in the ground ain't necessarily the safest option when a seemingly innocent looking Hercules (congrats on a very fine aircraft) appears overhead?

Just a thought, old friend.
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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:10 pm

Sassy... please stop talking bollocks!!!


Look at your graph that you posted... between 2008 to 2010... the line of borrowing goes up almost vertically!!!

That was before the tory/lib dems even got into office!!!

Then you must realise that any incoming govt is stuck with the spending commitments of the outgoing govt, for at least a couple of years or so...!!!???


So the line from 2010 to 2012/3 is just showing what Labour had already signed us up to spending before getting booted out in 2010!!!


Labour left govt with borrowing figure at nearly £180billion a year!!!


Tory have tried to sort out the shit that labour left behind... but labour have opposed every single cut in spending since then!!!


You are complaining about a massive debt burden that labour caused... and you are also supporting labour while they opposed every single cut in spending by tory to try to rectify the massive borrowing problem!!!


You are a complete idiot!!!

And a typical example of a Labour supporter who has no understanding of reality!!!



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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by sassy on Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:27 pm

You are such a dork. Because you ninny, they had to pay out £500 BILLION to the banks to stop them going under, so that we didn't have a melt down and people wouldn't be in the position of not being able to draw their money out of the banks, which is what the banks said would happen. Nobody had to do that again. After that it was a choice, made at the same time as punishing the ordinary people of this country by Dave and George, who make themselves and their mates millions of pounds.

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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:31 pm




Look at 2008... to 2009... to 2010... to 2011... to 2012...


All labours borrowing and spending commitments...!!!


After then... you can see the overall borrowing total still rising, as we were still left paying labours borrowing/spending commitments... but by lower amounts each year as Torys started to implement cuts in spending/borrowing... all of which were opposed by labour!!!

So if labour had remained in govt in 2010... not only would the graph been at least the same for years 2010-2012... but would be EVEN WORSE thereafter!!!


Labour were not just the cause of the problems... but they were also the ones who were then opposing all the proposed solutions!!!

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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

Post by Original Quill on Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:09 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:


Look at 2008... to 2009... to 2010... to 2011... to 2012...


All labours borrowing and spending commitments...!!!


After then... you can see the overall borrowing total still rising, as we were still left paying labours borrowing/spending commitments... but by lower amounts each year as Torys started to implement cuts in spending/borrowing... all of which were opposed by labour!!!

So if labour had remained in govt in 2010... not only would the graph been at least the same for years 2010-2012... but would be EVEN WORSE thereafter!!!


Labour were not just the cause of the problems... but they were also the ones who were then opposing all the proposed solutions!!!

All years in which RW wars were winding down, and the UK was retiring it's whole Navy. You wasted your defense money on silly ego wars, and now you have no defense.

Wait until Russia invades Europe and knocks on your doors. Those figures will change. Remember, Russia has no greater ally than Donald 'NATO is obsolete' Trump.

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Re: THE MYTH OF TORY ECONOMIC COMPETENCE

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