'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

View previous topic View next topic Go down

'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Syl on Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:26 pm

How incredibly sad.  Sad

"A geography teacher cleared of raping a pupil has warned that men should steer clear of the profession, after a false allegation shattered his dream career.
Kato Harris, a former head of department at an all-girls school in London, was accused of attacking a 14-year-old three times in a classroom during lunch breaks in autumn 2013, but was found not guilty after a trial last year .
The 38-year-old said before his ordeal began, "life was like a wonderful dream", and with a successful career and a child also on the way he was "looking forward to a great future".
In an interview with the Mail on Sunday, he has disclosed that "one of the biggest challenges" he now faces is forgiving his accuser, something he said he will do, "just not now".
He told the newspaper: "I would certainly advocate that no man qualify as a teacher. It is just not worth it. What is the lesson here? There is nothing to protect the male teacher."
A jury found Mr Harris, from Richmond, not guilty of all charges following his trial at Isleworth Crown Court.
"I had to give up my dream job because of a crime I didn't commit," he said.

He told the newspaper he had made the decision to kill himself if he was charged, but that with the arrival of a baby daughter he wanted to carry on and prove his innocence."






http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/geography-teacher-cleared-of-raping-pupil-says-men-should-stay-away-from-teaching/ar-BBzU6i4?li=AA9SkIr&ocid=spartanntp

_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 12316
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by magica on Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:41 pm

Ohhow horrible for this man. Men make great teachers, and so sad that this silly nasty girl could make this accusation and he has given up his vocation.

You know, many girls get a crush on their teachers, but it stays at that. Making allegations of rape is another level and very cruel, not only to this man but young girls who have been raped.

So wrong on all levels.

_________________
__________________________________________________________________________________

Don't walk behind I may not lead
Don't walk in front I may not follow
Just walk beside me and be my friend.
avatar
magica

Posts : 1791
Join date : 2016-08-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Original Quill on Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:45 pm

The reverse expectation exists on the other side, where society refuses to believe that women would prey on male students.  Debra LaFave, Mary Kay Letourneau, Shannon Best, Cara Dickey, and Deanna Higgins, come to mind.

What is worse, when such male-student/female-teacher sexual affairs are divulged, the charges are often dismissed.  As the State of Georgia said in Ms. LaFave's case, no jury would convict.

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Terrorism: "..many fine people, on many sides" ― Donald Trump, Charlottesville, 8.15.17

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 19994
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Syl on Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:25 pm

Original Quill wrote:The reverse expectation exists on the other side, where society refuses to believe that women would prey on male students.  Debra LaFave, Mary Kay Letourneau, Shannon Best, Cara Dickey, and Deanna Higgins, come to mind.

What is worse, when such male-student/female-teacher sexual affairs are divulged, the charges are often dismissed.  As the State of Georgia said in Ms. LaFave's case, no jury would convict.

That's not the case here Quill. In recent years a few female teachers have been found guilty of having inappropriate relationships with young male students.

_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 12316
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by eddie on Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:26 pm

This saddens me. In poorer areas, many children don't grow up with fathers around and having a good male role model is essential - these are often found in male teachers, and these teachers are incredibly popular in schools.
I've worked in a couple of different schools and the male teachers were simply marvellous.

_________________
That was his gift, he filled you with words that you didn't know were there.
avatar
eddie
king of beards. Keeper of the Whip. head cook and bottle washer. Senior mushroom muncher

Posts : 31803
Join date : 2013-07-28
Age : 47
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Syl on Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:31 pm

magica wrote:Ohhow horrible for this man. Men make great teachers, and so sad that this silly nasty girl could make this accusation and he has given up his vocation.

You know, many girls get a crush on their teachers, but it stays at that. Making allegations of rape is another level and very cruel, not only to this man but young girls who have been raped.

So wrong on all levels.

It is very wrong.
I actually know someone , a young male teacher who was accused by one of his female students of acting inappropriately towards her.
He was innocent, the girl admitted she lied (for a joke) Rolling Eyes but it was awful for him at the time.

I think females are more inclined to make this kind of thing up about their teachers than lads are. Maybe a mix of fantasy and revenge towards a teacher they feel has slighted them in some way.

_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 12316
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Original Quill on Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:38 am

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:The reverse expectation exists on the other side, where society refuses to believe that women would prey on male students.  Debra LaFave, Mary Kay Letourneau, Shannon Best, Cara Dickey, and Deanna Higgins, come to mind.

What is worse, when such male-student/female-teacher sexual affairs are divulged, the charges are often dismissed.  As the State of Georgia said in Ms. LaFave's case, no jury would convict.

That's not the case here Quill. In recent years a few female teachers have been found guilty of having inappropriate relationships with young male students.

Yes, notice most of those I've mentioned are from southern states, where fundamentalist religious notions prevail. The stigma of men are from mars, women are from venus is still around.

Fortunately, that doesn't hold in Boston or San Francisco.

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Terrorism: "..many fine people, on many sides" ― Donald Trump, Charlottesville, 8.15.17

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 19994
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:47 pm

study

It sounds like both the department/ministry of education and the court system over there both let that teacher down  --  

Why did the case have to go before a jury --  didn't they conduct any sort of preliminary investigations,  at all  ?

Imagine how many subjects would virtually disappear from high schools without any male teachers --  most science and economics/commerce teachers are male, as are most woodwork/metalwork/tech' drawing/industrial design/technics teachers..

Over here, they have been actively encouraging men into primary school teaching since the 1980s, to help address gender imbalances that had built up during the 20th century.

_________________
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Our life is frittered away by details. Simplify, simplify.
The mass of men lead lives of quite desperation.
Henry David Thoreau
avatar
WhoseYourWolfie

Posts : 4111
Join date : 2016-02-24
Age : 59
Location : Lake Macquarie, NSW, Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by magica on Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:57 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:study

It sounds like both the department/ministry of education and the court system over there both let that teacher down  --  

Why did the case have to go before a jury --  didn't they conduct any sort of preliminary investigations,  at all  ?

Imagine how many subjects would virtually disappear from high schools without any male teachers --  most science and economics/commerce teachers are male, as are most woodwork/metalwork/tech' drawing/industrial design/technics teachers..

Over here, they have been actively encouraging men into primary school teaching since the 1980s, to help address gender imbalances that had built up during the 20th century.

Over here teachers or anyone accused are told to go on leave and then they do an enquiry. Police are called and then statements taken.

Personally I think they should conduct this internally and if found anything that looks suss, then they call the police.

The reason they do it this way is to protect the child, but many girls make up stories, they think its funny and have no concept of the damage they are doing to the men or women involved. Also this takes away from genuine girls who infact are abused. Would they bother to report it incase they feel they will be treated as lying.

Its a fine line Wolf.

_________________
__________________________________________________________________________________

Don't walk behind I may not lead
Don't walk in front I may not follow
Just walk beside me and be my friend.
avatar
magica

Posts : 1791
Join date : 2016-08-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Original Quill on Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:06 pm

magica wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:study

It sounds like both the department/ministry of education and the court system over there both let that teacher down  --  

Why did the case have to go before a jury --  didn't they conduct any sort of preliminary investigations,  at all  ?

Imagine how many subjects would virtually disappear from high schools without any male teachers --  most science and economics/commerce teachers are male, as are most woodwork/metalwork/tech' drawing/industrial design/technics teachers..

Over here, they have been actively encouraging men into primary school teaching since the 1980s, to help address gender imbalances that had built up during the 20th century.

Over here teachers or anyone accused are told to go on leave and then they do an enquiry.  Police are called and then statements taken.

Personally I think they should conduct this internally and if found anything that looks suss, then they call the police.

The reason they do it this way is to protect the child, but many girls make up stories, they think its funny and have no concept of the damage they are doing to the men or women involved.  Also this takes away from genuine girls who infact are abused. Would they bother to report it incase they feel they will be treated as lying.

Its a fine line Wolf.

Yes, but the girls are only able to make up such stories because it goes with the flow of belief...men are snakes, snails and puppy dog tails, while women are sugar, spice and everything nice.  If your people didn't already believe that, such fictitious stories would not get the traction they do.

That's the same sentiment that our own southern Baptist, fundamentalists hold.  And it can't help but carry through in the punishment.  Women teachers who carry out such transgressions only get a slap on the wrist, and are permitted to carry on.  Debra LaFave was made to wear an ankle bracelet and was often seen shopping, while a man convicted in the Carolina's was sentenced to 22-years in prison for the same thing.

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Terrorism: "..many fine people, on many sides" ― Donald Trump, Charlottesville, 8.15.17

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 19994
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Syl on Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:38 pm

Mags is right, it is a fine line to follow when hearing an under aged person has been sexually abused.
I was told that the first line of call is never to disbelieve the child (of both sexes) and work from there.

I don't know what the statistics are, but in the UK it seems lately there have more female teachers in the news who have seduced male students than the other way round.

_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 12316
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Syl on Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:47 pm

Original Quill wrote:
magica wrote:

Over here teachers or anyone accused are told to go on leave and then they do an enquiry.  Police are called and then statements taken.

Personally I think they should conduct this internally and if found anything that looks suss, then they call the police.

The reason they do it this way is to protect the child, but many girls make up stories, they think its funny and have no concept of the damage they are doing to the men or women involved.  Also this takes away from genuine girls who infact are abused. Would they bother to report it incase they feel they will be treated as lying.

Its a fine line Wolf.

Yes, but the girls are only able to make up such stories because it goes with the flow of belief...men are snakes, snails and puppy dog tails, while women are sugar, spice and everything nice.  If your people didn't already believe that, such fictitious stories would not get the traction they do.

That's the same sentiment that our own southern Baptist, fundamentalists hold.  And it can't help but carry through in the punishment.  Women teachers who carry out such transgressions only get a slap on the wrist, and are permitted to carry on.  Debra LaFave was made to wear an ankle bracelet and was often seen shopping, while a man convicted in the Carolina's was sentenced to 22-years in prison for the same thing.

This female teacher in Florida was given a 22 year sentence also, for sleeping with three 17 year old male students.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/female-teachers-tearful-apology-having-5999832

And this one in Utah was jailed for between two to THIRTY years.....how does that work? scratch

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2758224/sex-crazed-teacher-jailed-for-30-years-for-romping-with-three-students-denied-parole-after-admitting-sleeping-with-pupils-made-her-feel-good-about-herself/

_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 12316
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by magica on Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:04 pm

Sentences are silly. 22 yrs for sleeping with 17 yr old students. Yes she should be sacked, but 22 yrs, that's ridiculous. They're not boys.

30 for same thing. No

_________________
__________________________________________________________________________________

Don't walk behind I may not lead
Don't walk in front I may not follow
Just walk beside me and be my friend.
avatar
magica

Posts : 1791
Join date : 2016-08-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Syl on Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:07 pm

magica wrote:Sentences are silly. 22 yrs for sleeping with 17 yr old students. Yes she should be sacked, but 22 yrs, that's ridiculous. They're not boys.

30 for same thing. No

Sentences like that seem extreme, paedo's who rape little girls and boys get less. Evil or Very Mad

The woman who was jailed for up to 30 years in Utah could be out in two....how does that work?

_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 12316
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Original Quill on Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:17 pm

The one in Florida happened after (and in reaction to) the Debra LaFave case.  And, might I add, it was for 3-victims, and 37 counts of rape.  That's 7 per victim, and she'll get out in under 3-years.

Utah is a bit of a unique situation.  Again, three victims.  Utah has to deal with the FLDS, which still considers under-aged sex as legitimate, and so the authorities might be expected to over-react.

Still, two pretty extreme cases out of how many thousands?

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Terrorism: "..many fine people, on many sides" ― Donald Trump, Charlottesville, 8.15.17

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 19994
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Syl on Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:56 pm

Original Quill wrote:The one in Florida happened after (and in reaction to) the Debra LaFave case.  And, might I add, it was for 3-victims, and 37 counts of rape.  That's 7 per victim, and she'll get out in under 3-years.

Utah is a bit of a unique situation.  Again, three victims.  Utah has to deal with the FLDS, which still considers under-aged sex as legitimate, and so the authorities might be expected to over-react.

Still, two pretty extreme cases out of how many thousands?

I don't know the statistics Quill...I just googled female teachers who have sex with male students...(or something similar) and they were the first two that came up, probably because they are so extreme.

Whilst I was following links I found one that said there had been over 900 cases of teachers(male and female) being accused of having sex with pupils in the UK over a 3 year period..... Shocked

_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 12316
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by magica on Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:00 pm

17 isn't a child's age. Yes it's improper for teachers to sleep with students, but prison is harsh imo

_________________
__________________________________________________________________________________

Don't walk behind I may not lead
Don't walk in front I may not follow
Just walk beside me and be my friend.
avatar
magica

Posts : 1791
Join date : 2016-08-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Original Quill on Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:22 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:The one in Florida happened after (and in reaction to) the Debra LaFave case.  And, might I add, it was for 3-victims, and 37 counts of rape.  That's 7 per victim, and she'll get out in under 3-years.

Utah is a bit of a unique situation.  Again, three victims.  Utah has to deal with the FLDS, which still considers under-aged sex as legitimate, and so the authorities might be expected to over-react.

Still, two pretty extreme cases out of how many thousands?

I don't know the statistics Quill...I just googled female teachers who have sex with male students...(or something similar) and they were the first two that came up, probably because they are so extreme.

Whilst I was following links I found one that said there had been over 900 cases of teachers(male and female)  being accused of having sex with pupils  in the UK over a 3 year period..... Shocked

That's why you can't generalize from specifics.

Lest we stray, I was not augering for more stringent penalties for female teachers, or crying sexism.  I was backing the point of Mr. Harris, the teacher/victim.

Why shouldn't men (in particular) be teachers?  His point is that there is a general bias against intermingling males with young females.  Call it the predatory male stigma.  It goes back to the snakes, snails and puppy dog tails vs. sugar, spice and everything nice.  Of course it is not valid.  But it's real...and these young women are believed against a background that such is the expectation.  We can explain it either by showing far fewer female teachers are accused, or by showing that male teachers are more apt to be accused.  The latter is the case...which is why the false accusation tactic is so successful

But his point goes to the general anti-male bias in law in the first place.  There is an hierarchy of 'most-favored' in the criminal justice system when it comes to accused and treatment.  Most favored of all are the police...rarely is a police officer charged, much less convicted.  Next most favored is the female, who is rarely suspected, and much less frequently charged.  And if the woman is attractive, like Ms. LaFave, the lesson doubles.  As the State of Georgia said, No jury would convict such an attractive woman.

Not that it's altogether a sexist-free message.  The idea seems to be, you don't put women in jail; you take them to bed.  It's still sexism, just a different color.

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Terrorism: "..many fine people, on many sides" ― Donald Trump, Charlottesville, 8.15.17

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 19994
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Lord Foul on Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:01 am

the brat should be looking at 10 years in a corrective institute

but what can we expect from veyas beloved "younger generation"

_________________
If at any time in 2016 I have annoyed you, pissed you off or said the wrong thing....Suck it up buttercup, cause 2017 AINT gonna be any different

There are those who's opinion I value, there are those who's opinion I neither value or scorn, and then there are those who's opinion I just ignore as insignificant...I can assure you the latter outnumber the first two combined by a whole order of magnitude


Difficile est meminisse officium paludes siccare , cum de nocte surrexeritis et asinus tuus alligators ....(It's hard to remember that the task is to drain the swamp, when you are up to your arse in alligators)
avatar
Lord Foul
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR
INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR

Posts : 8761
Join date : 2015-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Syl on Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:53 am

magica wrote:17 isn't a child's age. Yes it's improper for teachers to sleep with students, but prison is harsh imo

I think it depends entirely on each individual case.
Teachers are in a position of trust for a start. The age limit is raised to 18 if its their student for a reason. For people who are not in the same position of trust the legal age of consent is 16.
There have been cases where teachers have groomed certain students for years before they actually have sex with them...they should be jailed.
So should teachers who take multiple youngsters to bed.
So should teachers who coerce kids with subtle threats or promises.

Seventeen year olds may not be kids, but they are still vulnerable.

_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 12316
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by magica on Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:05 pm

I don't think teachers should sleep with pupils, but vulnerable at 17, I don't think so.

_________________
__________________________________________________________________________________

Don't walk behind I may not lead
Don't walk in front I may not follow
Just walk beside me and be my friend.
avatar
magica

Posts : 1791
Join date : 2016-08-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Syl on Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:10 pm

magica wrote:I don't think teachers should sleep with pupils, but vulnerable at 17, I don't think so.

Course they are. My younger grandson is 17....he thinks he knows it all, in reality he knows nothing yet, how can he...he hasn't lived.
Luckily, in the case of student/teacher relationships the law agrees with my point of view Mags. tongue

_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 12316
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by magica on Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:30 pm

Syl wrote:
magica wrote:I don't think teachers should sleep with pupils, but vulnerable at 17, I don't think so.

Course they are. My younger grandson is 17....he thinks he knows it all, in reality he knows nothing yet, how can he...he hasn't lived.
Luckily, in the case of student/teacher relationships the law agrees with my point of view Mags. tongue


Bah clown

_________________
__________________________________________________________________________________

Don't walk behind I may not lead
Don't walk in front I may not follow
Just walk beside me and be my friend.
avatar
magica

Posts : 1791
Join date : 2016-08-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Syl on Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:41 pm

magica wrote:
Syl wrote:

Course they are. My younger grandson is 17....he thinks he knows it all, in reality he knows nothing yet, how can he...he hasn't lived.
Luckily, in the case of student/teacher relationships the law agrees with my point of view Mags. tongue

Bah clown


_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 12316
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by magica on Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:37 pm

Syl wrote:
magica wrote:

Bah clown


Haha I laughed

_________________
__________________________________________________________________________________

Don't walk behind I may not lead
Don't walk in front I may not follow
Just walk beside me and be my friend.
avatar
magica

Posts : 1791
Join date : 2016-08-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Original Quill on Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:29 pm

Syl wrote:
magica wrote:17 isn't a child's age. Yes it's improper for teachers to sleep with students, but prison is harsh imo

I think it depends entirely on each individual case.

Teachers are in a position of trust for a start. The age limit is raised to 18 if its their student for a reason. For people who are not in the same position of trust the legal age of consent is 16.
There have been cases where teachers have groomed certain students for years before they actually have sex with them...they should be jailed.
So should teachers who take multiple youngsters to bed.
So should teachers who coerce kids with subtle threats or promises.

Seventeen year olds may not be kids, but they are still vulnerable.

There is no "individual case" when you are talking about social belief systems.  That's what Mr. Harris was talking about.  He wasn't saying that this "individual case" man should stay out of teaching as a profession.  He was saying that all "individual case" males should stay out of teaching:

Kato Harris wrote:"I would certainly advocate that no man qualify as a teacher. It is just not worth it. What is the lesson here? There is nothing to protect the male teacher."

He's talking about a bias in the entire belief system.  I agree with him, and I think most males would know full well what he is saying.  It's not just low pay that keeps males away from lower education.  

The same bias is not in higher education, although teaching is the same mission.  Indeed I taught at university for a decade and a half.  You don't have under aged girls in university, and it's much more professional.

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Terrorism: "..many fine people, on many sides" ― Donald Trump, Charlottesville, 8.15.17

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 19994
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Syl on Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:01 am

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

I think it depends entirely on each individual case.

Teachers are in a position of trust for a start. The age limit is raised to 18 if its their student for a reason. For people who are not in the same position of trust the legal age of consent is 16.
There have been cases where teachers have groomed certain students for years before they actually have sex with them...they should be jailed.
So should teachers who take multiple youngsters to bed.
So should teachers who coerce kids with subtle threats or promises.

Seventeen year olds may not be kids, but they are still vulnerable.

There is no "individual case" when you are talking about social belief systems.  That's what Mr. Harris was talking about.  He wasn't saying that this "individual case" man should stay out of teaching as a profession.  He was saying that all "individual case" males should stay out of teaching:

Kato Harris wrote:"I would certainly advocate that no man qualify as a teacher. It is just not worth it. What is the lesson here? There is nothing to protect the male teacher."

He's talking about a bias in the entire belief system.  I agree with him, and I think most males would know full well what he is saying.  It's not just low pay that keeps males away from lower education.  

The same bias is not in higher education, although teaching is the same mission.  Indeed I taught at university for a decade and a half.  You don't have under aged girls in university, and it's much more professional.

Mr Harris obviously has reasons to think teaching is not a good career choice for men given his experience, his case is sad, but certainly not typical.

I meant every case of a teacher who has had sex with a student is treated individually.
The huge difference in sentences given prove that.
I don't think male teachers are treated differently to female teachers by the courts, like I said earlier, we (the UK) seem to have more reported cases of female teachers in court recently.


_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 12316
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Original Quill on Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:55 am

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

There is no "individual case" when you are talking about social belief systems.  That's what Mr. Harris was talking about.  He wasn't saying that this "individual case" man should stay out of teaching as a profession.  He was saying that all "individual case" males should stay out of teaching:



He's talking about a bias in the entire belief system.  I agree with him, and I think most males would know full well what he is saying.  It's not just low pay that keeps males away from lower education.  

The same bias is not in higher education, although teaching is the same mission.  Indeed I taught at university for a decade and a half.  You don't have under aged girls in university, and it's much more professional.

Mr Harris obviously has reasons to think teaching is not a good career choice for men given his experience,  his case is sad, but certainly not typical.

I meant every case of a teacher who has had sex with a student is treated individually.
The huge difference in sentences given prove that.
I don't think male teachers are treated differently to female teachers by the courts, like I said earlier, we (the UK) seem to have more reported cases of female teachers in court recently.

But his remarks go to the situation where there is no, nor has there been any sexual contact between teacher and student.  There is only the false accusation.

His position is that male teachers will inevitably have the bias of presumption against them in that situation, and he's right.

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Terrorism: "..many fine people, on many sides" ― Donald Trump, Charlottesville, 8.15.17

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 19994
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Syl on Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

Mr Harris obviously has reasons to think teaching is not a good career choice for men given his experience,  his case is sad, but certainly not typical.

I meant every case of a teacher who has had sex with a student is treated individually.
The huge difference in sentences given prove that.
I don't think male teachers are treated differently to female teachers by the courts, like I said earlier, we (the UK) seem to have more reported cases of female teachers in court recently.

But his remarks go to the situation where there is no, nor has there been any sexual contact between teacher and student.  There is only the false accusation.

His position is that male teachers will inevitably have the bias of presumption against them in that situation, and he's right.

Quill, I believe if there is an accusation of a teacher acting inappropriately towards a student that teacher will be suspended whilst enquiries are made....whether that teacher be male of female.
I think that's the procedure here.

I don't have statistics, but I bet that more girls make accusations than boys do, so in that respect I can see that male teachers are at a disadvantage,
I know someone it happened to, it was incredibly traumatic but he was vindicated because the girl admitted she had lied before it got too serious....that cant detract from the suffering he endured whilst investigations were on going though obviously.
But its the same for both sexes....one of the hazards I guess of going into teaching, or ANY job where you are dealing with children or vulnerable people... but it can happen to both men and women and the chances of it happening must be slight, for either.

_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 12316
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Syl on Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:11 pm

And Quill... this list from the USA detailing female teachers who have been accused or convicted of acting inappropriately with students in American schools would question your argument that accusations against female teachers are not taken seriously.  
This list (according to comments) is nowhere near complete.... but it covers several years and was updated recently.


http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/39783/

_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 12316
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Original Quill on Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:07 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

But his remarks go to the situation where there is no, nor has there been any sexual contact between teacher and student.  There is only the false accusation.

His position is that male teachers will inevitably have the bias of presumption against them in that situation, and he's right.

Quill, I believe if there is an accusation of a teacher acting inappropriately towards a student that teacher will be suspended whilst enquiries are made....whether that teacher be male of female.
I think that's the procedure here.

I don't have statistics, but I bet that more girls make accusations than boys do, so in that respect I can see that male teachers are at a disadvantage,
I know someone it happened to, it was incredibly traumatic but he was vindicated because the girl admitted she had lied before it got too serious....that cant detract from the suffering he endured whilst investigations were on going though obviously.
But its the same for both sexes....one of the hazards I guess of going into teaching, or ANY job where you are dealing with children or vulnerable people... but it can happen to both men and women and the chances of it happening must be slight, for either.

So you agree with Mr. Harris and me.  Good.  

I'm not disagreeing about the paid vacation (suspension) that an accused gets.  It's the bias of presumption that figures into both the probable cause (raising the question), and the verdict (ultimate liability) aspects of the case.  Simply put, accusations against a male teacher are a lot more likely to be taken seriously than accusations against a female teacher.  But this is just emblematic of life in general.

The problem with grade school teaching is the context...the placing of male teachers in the proximity of under-aged young women.  The accusations come up more frequently, and are believed more readily, when the accused is male.  In our society women are expected to be the victims, men are expected to be culpable.  Therefore, it's a bad environment for male teachers.  Men should shy away from such employment.  

That's the point Mr. Harris makes, and I agree.

_________________
"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Terrorism: "..many fine people, on many sides" ― Donald Trump, Charlottesville, 8.15.17

"Work for America to fail whenever the other party is in power."
― Republican Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

Original Quill

Posts : 19994
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 52
Location : Northern California

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 'Men should stay away from teaching children'.

Post by Syl on Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:17 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

Quill, I believe if there is an accusation of a teacher acting inappropriately towards a student that teacher will be suspended whilst enquiries are made....whether that teacher be male of female.
I think that's the procedure here.

I don't have statistics, but I bet that more girls make accusations than boys do, so in that respect I can see that male teachers are at a disadvantage,
I know someone it happened to, it was incredibly traumatic but he was vindicated because the girl admitted she had lied before it got too serious....that cant detract from the suffering he endured whilst investigations were on going though obviously.
But its the same for both sexes....one of the hazards I guess of going into teaching, or ANY job where you are dealing with children or vulnerable people... but it can happen to both men and women and the chances of it happening must be slight, for either.

So you agree with Mr. Harris and me.  Good.  
No I don't agree....Mr Harris has good reason to think as he does though, which I have already acknowledged.

I'm not disagreeing about the paid vacation (suspension) that an accused gets.  It's the bias of presumption that figures into both the probable cause (raising the question), and the verdict (ultimate liability) aspects of the case.  Simply put, accusations against a male teacher are a lot more likely to be taken seriously than accusations against a female teacher.  But this is just emblematic of life in general.

I don't agree.
Do you have statistics that male teachers who are accused of sexual misconduct are treated differently to female teachers who are accused of the same?


The problem with grade school teaching is the context...the placing of male teachers in the proximity of under-aged young women.  The accusations come up more frequently, and are believed more readily, when the accused is male.  In our society women are expected to be the victims, men are expected to be culpable.  Therefore, it's a bad environment for male teachers.  Men should shy away from such employment.

There are definitely more female teachers than males, for many different reasons. I doubt the reason is that men are reluctant to enter teaching in school because they may be falsely accused of misconduct.
In fact more men are applying for teaching positions here....this chart is 5 years old but the numbers are increasing every year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/record-numbers-of-men-teaching-in-primary-schools-but-more-still-needed

From the article.....

"Latest data from the Teaching Agency (TA) shows more men are becoming primary school teachers. The number of male trainee primary teachers has increased by more than 50% in the last 4 years and has grown at 5 times the rate of women."

 

That's the point Mr. Harris makes, and I agree.

I have given my reasons why I don't. Smile

_________________
My body is in Manchester (sometimes) my mind's all over the place (always)
Happy now??
avatar
Syl

Posts : 12316
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

View user profile

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum